Web Design With Ubuntu.

[MiKuS]

sorry if this thread is in the wrong spot, i was wondering what sort of applications are available to help with web design? as in css editors and other applications of the sort?

i'm just interested as at work i'm forced to do my designing with dreamweaver on the pc, i'd like to see/hear of an alternative.

any help will be apreciated :-)

[orro]

For design I use Inkscape and the GIMP. For development (CSS, php, html etc) I just use gedit and firefox to preview, but I also occasionally use Nvu (http://www.nvu.com/index.php) (N-view) when I want a wysiwyg tool. Nvu also has a built in CSS editor which is simialr to dreamweavers (Tools > CSS editor), not to mention just about anything else you might need to build a site. The page rendering is based on Firefox as far as I know, so you get better wysiwyg rendering (really good css support) using Nvu rather than dreamweaver.
Nvu also has a full site manager / ftp uploader built in so it is a great alternative to dreamweaver.

Nvu is available from the ubuntu repositories, or you can get it from the website (http://www.nvu.com/index.php).

[smartalecks]

Well, for an app that is like Dreamweaver there is Bluefish (http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/index.html). It is not, in my opinion, as powerful as Dreamweaver but it gets the job done. It is lighter than Dreamweaver, however. It supports HTML, CSS, PHP, C, Java, Javascript, JSP, SQL, Python, XML, Perl... There is also NVU (http://www.nvu.com), which has a WYSIWYG interface (graphical or code view).

For graphics and such there is GIMP, Pixel (not free tho), Inkscape...

There are quite a few.

[commodore]

There are LOADS of editors with css support. Just try any of the popular editors. I especially like a text editor called Scribes which is still in beta but very, very cool.

[MiKuS]

just came accross notpad++ and i'm rather depressed i havent been using this nifty app more often.

as for editors i also came accross bluefish http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/index.html
which looks like it's be cool to check out. thanks for the fast replies guys :D

if there are any other applications you can think of that'd be useful still let me know ^^

edit: didn't read the above posts clearly enough, disregard my bluefish comment.

[commodore]

Try quanta plus:
http://quanta.kdewebdev.org/

[eyebyte]

Has anyone here tried Zend Studio?

Any thoughts about it.

I did look at BlueFish - seems like it could get the job done.

I have been using Zend Studio on Windows - and now that I am moving to Ubuntu - I was thinking about keeping much of my same methodology - and tools.

Anyway - if anyone here has any experiences - especially negative ones - let me know. If there are better IDE's for linux (one that would greatly improve my productivity) it would be appreciated. ALso - cheap or free would not be bad either.

[w1z4rd]

Has anyone here tried Zend Studio?

Any thoughts about it.

I did look at BlueFish - seems like it could get the job done.

I have been using Zend Studio on Windows - and now that I am moving to Ubuntu - I was thinking about keeping much of my same methodology - and tools.

Anyway - if anyone here has any experiences - especially negative ones - let me know. If there are better IDE's for linux (one that would greatly improve my productivity) it would be appreciated. ALso - cheap or free would not be bad either.

Im going to give sticking with dreamweaver a little bit of a try, the program is comftale for me, and I havent really noticed anything better on the market recently :/ I had a look at Nvu.... but dunno, prehaps I should just try it more.

[fireshell]

Most of my work is done with the text editor that comes with kubuntu Kate. It has syntax highlighting for many program and markup languages, as for project management etc i just keep track of my files.

Graphics i've always managed with the gimp, tho I dare say a newbi would have troubles getting used to it.

Quanta plus is also good, has code view / page preview / wysiwyg editor so can do just as much as dreamweaver in much of what it does. I quite like the code features it includes. The code editor uses kate as a base for syntax highlighting, means u can use it for perl / asp / php / html ..... list goes on

[arsenic23]

No one ever mentions screem, which is definitely my favorite html/css editor outside of Dreamweaver 2004. I despaired at using other GNU editors untill some helpfull person from this forum sugested screem. (( Mostly I like it's auto completion.))

[uli]

Orro,as you have Nvu up and working, maybe you can help me solve a problem I have with it on Ubuntu 6.06. I installed it with sudo apt-get install and I changed the wording of the nvu.desktop as was suggested on a reference from the Nvu web site. To finish I gave th "killall gnome-panel" command and expected to find the Nvu editor under "Applications->Internet". Well, it isn't there and I do not know how to call it.
Any suggestion?
Thank you!
Uli

[xmastree]

Well, it isn't there and I do not know how to call it.
Any suggestion?With any application, you can run it either from a terminal, which is messy as it leaves a terminal on your screen. Or Alt-F2 and type the command in there.

In the case of nvu the command is nvu

[Colonel Kilkenny]

The page rendering is based on Firefox as far as I know, so you get better wysiwyg rendering (really good css support) using Nvu rather than dreamweaver.
Actually, Dreamweaver (recent versions) uses Presto as a layout engine so the situation is at the moment quite even or a bit opposite.
And if someone isn't familiar with name Presto, it is the layout engine developed and used by Opera.

I mainly use gedit for coding. Bluefish is ok but it has some problems with syntax highlighting.
For graphics it is Gimp, Inkscape and if I get frustrated with Gimp (brushes, layers) I move to old Photoshop 7.0.

[HanZo]

once you get used to Dreamweaver you find it quite cumbersome to use anything else... because it's full wysiwyg and offers every kind of tool you might need. unfortunately I've tryed them all the editors you can find on linux and none gave me the same performance. of course you have to spend some hard earned money on an app like dw... Nvu was ok, but lacked some very nice features like rollovers and the site manager really didn't impress me... in fact I never understood how that was meant to work. for the graphics part I cannot really live without photoshop beacuse of the slices function, but apart from that I found Gimp to be a really good replacement for webgraphics. I wouldn't switch to linux for professional web-design (design, not coding) but if you just play around for yourself I think you can work with it.

[goanna300]

For design I .. occasionally use Nvu (http://www.nvu.com/index.php) (N-view) when I want a wysiwyg tool.

Nvu is available from the ubuntu repositories, or you can get it from the website (http://www.nvu.com/index.php).

Dreamweaver is the website-building productivity leader and NVU is the only Dreamweaver-for-Linux contender. But with Feisty, no Ubuntu NVU package is any longer available. Even installation how-to's seem to have been discontinued.

A real pity. Web design is another reason which keeps me heading back for a Windows reboot.

[por100pre1]

+1 for Quanta Plus

sudo aptitude install quanta

[spupy]

For CSS editing, i use cssed, nice program, useful (for me) features.

[rsambuca]

Dreamweaver is the website-building productivity leader and NVU is the only Dreamweaver-for-Linux contender. But with Feisty, no Ubuntu NVU package is any longer available. Even installation how-to's seem to have been discontinued.

A real pity. Web design is another reason which keeps me heading back for a Windows reboot.

Actually, nvu works perfectly fine in Feisty, but you just have to use the edgy package, which you can download from here (http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/web/nvu).

Kompozer has basically ironed out some of the bugs from nvu and it also has deb packages available for Feisty.

[adamorjames]

I use gedit for (X)HTML, CSS, PHP, etc. It has syntax highlighting, numbered lines, etc in one small package.

[kayosiii]

Screem is not a bad choice when working in a mixed environment as it supports Dreamweaver templates.

Kompozer is the best wysiwyg option currently (without using wine or emulation).

My early prototyping is almost always done in Inkscape...

[g4m3b0y]

I pretty much use aptana (used to use screem, gphpedit, bluefish) as my editor because of the code completion options (tired of the occasional crash in screem). You need to have jre 1.5+ in order to work. It has support for a lot of javascript libraries like dojo, aflax, mochikit, adobe spry, etc....but I don't like being dependent on someone else's library (like to write from scratch). It has pretty decent support for PHP (lastest builds). The code completion can be annoying at times when your too busy typing and having to press the ESC key to make it go away (can be disabled). For previewing I use Firefox, Internet Exploder (ies4linux), Opera, Konqueror (safari's code base is similar if not the same) and Virtual Box using Windoze with IE7 and safari 3 beta. For graphics I use Xara (I think the interface is much more intuitive than inkscape's), Gimp, and Blender. For music I'm just using LMMS. Right now I'm playing with swfmill and mtasc for flash. I just wish I had more time.... :(

[adamorjames]

Screem is not a bad choice when working in a mixed environment as it supports Dreamweaver templates.

Kompozer is the best wysiwyg option currently (without using wine or emulation).

My early prototyping is almost always done in Inkscape...

My early prototyping is done with.... pencil and paper :)

[bmeyer]

For efficient, standards compliant, and readable coding, nothing beats a text editor. I am STRONGLY opposed to WYSIWYG editors.

Just find a text editor with smart indentation and language highlighting you like, as well as an easy to use FTP client. I currently just use gedit and filezilla. And that's it!

[adamorjames]

For efficient, standards compliant, and readable coding, nothing beats a text editor. I am STRONGLY opposed to WYSIWYG editors.

me 2

[Colonel Kilkenny]

Btw.
Does anyone know if there's a ftp (ssh, sftp) client with sync-feature (like WinSCP has)? I think Linux is missing a lot on that sector and when features like drag&drop-support are missing...

There is of course Fuse but that isn't really the same thing. I'd like to have a client which would automatically transfer changed files to server.

[Zillion]

Hmm I am a webdesigner for a living and 1 thing which keeps bugging me is the fact that unfortunately most people in the world use Internet Explorer as their main browser. A XHTML and CSS site can look great under Firefox but could need sometimes some additional stylesheet for iE. That and the fact that Photoshop is real handy keeps me a bit from using Ubuntu as my main OS only. Yea I know the GIMP. But it doesnt run intuitive for me. Often I get designs from graphic designers which are build in layers in a psd. So I need to run CS2 of CS3 under Wine, which doesnt run flawlessly. Does iE6 and iE7 run reasonable under Wine?

[pfwd.tech]

Zend all the way. If your a PHP programmer then i wouldn't use any other application for we programming.
I've used Dreamweaver on windows when i was starting out. I think Bluefish is a bit clunky. At work we use Zend on both Linux and Windows machines. The Mac boys use coder.
Zend does have its buggy bad points but overall it is a winner in my book.

[pfwd.tech]

Zillion could you not just run IE browser in a virtual machine? Us VMware and you wouldn't even have to dual boot out of Ubuntu.

[Chymera]

Until we get some kind of competent flash equivalent in open source, real web-design will be off limits for linux users.
I mean sure, you can make nice blog and forum themes, but if you really want to show ppl you mean buisness at least some animated buttons, if not even a flash preloader and opening animation are in order.

[Zillion]

Zillion could you not just run IE browser in a virtual machine? Us VMware and you wouldn't even have to dual boot out of Ubuntu.

Thanks, gonna try that!

[SreckoMicic]

Hmm I am a webdesigner for a living and 1 thing which keeps bugging me is the fact that unfortunately most people in the world use Internet Explorer as their main browser. A XHTML and CSS site can look great under Firefox but could need sometimes some additional stylesheet for iE. That and the fact that Photoshop is real handy keeps me a bit from using Ubuntu as my main OS only. Yea I know the GIMP. But it doesnt run intuitive for me. Often I get designs from graphic designers which are build in layers in a psd. So I need to run CS2 of CS3 under Wine, which doesnt run flawlessly. Does iE6 and iE7 run reasonable under Wine?

Try this, IE4Linux (http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page). Somebody already mention that on this post. U can use it to evaluate look of your designs on IE, but try to browse internet with Firefox. :)
Well, for other thing, as I know Gimp can open psd files with layers separeted.

[pfwd.tech]

No Probs.

[Mongo5000]

I have found Kompozer pretty good and have used it for a couple weeks now. Takes a bit of getting used to but its coming along.

I just can't get into Gimp though. I installed Inkscape but I can't grasp what its purpose is.

I build small websites and basically make graphic text headers with some cool effects. Photoshop worked great for that since it was quick and easy. Is that what Inkscape can do?

If I can find an app that would allow me to make simple quick graphic text headers as easily as photoshop does, I can remove winxp from vmware completely!

[lyceum]

I use bluefish and Aptana, aptana is great. I also have to give a +1 to those that say to avoid WYSIWYG. If you really have to have a WYSIWYG, make your page with OOo then fix it with Aptana or Bluefish.

[g4m3b0y]

You can run Flash 8 pro under wine (but needs to be installed under windoze then copied over) and i haven't tried to see if flash cs3 works (not much time). I know that there used to be flash4linux a long time ago and I haven't seen much done with that project but if you're competent in actionscript2.0 and xml then you should have no problem with swfmill and mtasc. Check out asdt on osflash.org (used as an eclipse plugin). Also with swfmill you can convert swf to xml so you can see how the swf movie clip's laid out. I am somewhat of a masochist and like to do things from scratch. Hope this helps someone out.

[argraff]

Until we get some kind of competent flash equivalent in open source, real web-design will be off limits for linux users.
I mean sure, you can make nice blog and forum themes, but if you really want to show ppl you mean buisness at least some animated buttons, if not even a flash preloader and opening animation are in order.

I've been working on websites since the early '90s and BOY do I hate sites that only use flash! Many people still find it unusable and it "updates" so often you have to keep downloading "the newest version." Yuck. Long live web standards and CSS. On the other hand, when used sparingly and for good reason, flash can rock, so I second the need for an open source version.

For web design I use a combo of Quanta and Bluefish, and for graphics it's Inkscape and GIMP. (I used to use Xara, but it seems they abandoned it.) I also installed IEs4linux (http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page) so I can have Firefox, IE6, Opera, and Konqueror to test in. When problems arise I use the various plugins on FF to debug (Firebug and Web Developer).

Does anyone know how to get Safari working under Linux? It seems like it should be possible...

[argraff]

I just can't get into Gimp though. I installed Inkscape but I can't grasp what its purpose is.

I build small websites and basically make graphic text headers with some cool effects. Photoshop worked great for that since it was quick and easy. Is that what Inkscape can do?

Sorry - just read this. Inkscape is for vector illustrations (ala Adobe Illustrator). Think logos, swirls, backgrounds, etc. The cool thing is that you can draw something and keep tweaking it until it is completely right. And since it's a path (vs pixels) you can blow it up to any size without any pixelation.

Hang in there with GIMP - took me quite a while, but I don't miss Photoshop at all now.

Ooh! Another thing - do the tutorials for Inkscape; those were real "ooooh, that's cooool" eyeopeners for me! :)

[HelixAgent]

I use Dreamweaver, Flash and Fireworks from Adobe CS3 and they work perfectly in Ubuntu. (I have my license it is not an illegal copy of CS3 and in the Adobe License Agreement there isn't a line that says "Do not install on Ubuntu" or similar :P)

[lyceum]

I use Dreamweaver, Flash and Fireworks from Adobe CS3 and they work perfectly in Ubuntu. (I have my license it is not an illegal copy of CS3 and in the Adobe License Agreement there isn't a line that says "Do not install on Ubuntu" or similar :P)

You are using CS3 on Ubuntu? Are you just using WINE, or how did you get it to run? I know that WINE supports studio 8 now, but if you can run CS3, that is awesome!

[aeonbeat]

You are using CS3 on Ubuntu? Are you just using WINE, or how did you get it to run? I know that WINE supports studio 8 now, but if you can run CS3, that is awesome!

Please, confirm if this is possible!!!:confused:

[lyceum]

Not that I am aware of. Looks like HelixAgent never responded to my post. :(

[GSZX1337]

Does anyone know of an application that is similarto HTML-Kit for Linux? I'd prefer not to use Wine. Also, does anyone know of any applications that are similar to Fireworks? I do not like GIMP.

[lyceum]

GIMP would not be a good Fireworks replacement, Try Inkscape or XaraXL. For HTML Kit, try Bluefish or Aptana. You may want to check out Amaya too. I have not used it, but it looks like something you may be looking for.

[banago]

GSZX1337!

I have just moved from Windows to Ubuntu. Well, these are my solutions:

1. Fireworks (Ilustrator, Corel Draw) for Inkscape.

Fireworks and Gimp are not similar, Gimp is a Pixel designing program, similar to Photoshop and CorelPaint, whereas Inksscape, Ilustrator, Corel Draw and Fireworks are Vector designing programs.

2. HTML Kit for Blue Fish.
I was a HTML Kit user and now swiched to BlueFish. I do not miss HTML Kit, but I let it in your hand to give your impression for Blue Fish.

That's it!

[banago]

Considering Lyceum suggestion, I just had a look at 'Amaya', at its screen shots. I liked it and now I'm downlading it to have a closer look.

[GSZX1337]

GSZX1337!

I have just moved from Windows to Ubuntu. Well, these are my solutions:

1. Fireworks (Ilustrator, Corel Draw) for Inkscape.

Fireworks and Gimp are not similar, Gimp is a Pixel designing program, similar to Photoshop and CorelPaint, whereas Inksscape, Ilustrator, Corel Draw and Fireworks are Vector designing programs.

2. HTML Kit for Blue Fish.
I was a HTML Kit user and now swiched to BlueFish. I do not miss HTML Kit, but I let it in your hand to give your impression for Blue Fish.

That's it!

GIMP would not be a good Fireworks replacement, Try Inkscape or XaraXL. For HTML Kit, try Bluefish or Aptana. You may want to check out Amaya too. I have not used it, but it looks like something you may be looking for.

Thank you both for the recommendations. When I get back to my home 'puter I will try XaraXL and Bluefish. :)
*Thanked both of you*

[banago]

Thank you for thanking us :)

I recommend you to have a look at Inkscape, I goes strong.

[lyceum]

Considering Lyceum suggestion, I just had a look at 'Amaya', at its screen shots. I liked it and now I'm downlading it to have a closer look.

Just wondering if you have triedAmaya and how well it works? For WYSIWYG pages I need to do quickly, I use OOo. I make the page look the way I want, then save as HTML, then fix things at the code level with Aptana or Bluefish. Is is easy, but it take time to organize the code. I have not had time to play with Amaya, but it looks cool.

[banago]

Just wondering if you have triedAmaya and how well it works? For WYSIWYG pages I need to do quickly, I use OOo. I make the page look the way I want, then save as HTML, then fix things at the code level with Aptana or Bluefish. Is is easy, but it take time to organize the code. I have not had time to play with Amaya, but it looks cool.

Lyceum,

I had a glance to Amaya. As a matter of fast I do not do WYSIWYG designing at all, I code it.

My impression of what I sow was, (i.e What I Got From What I Saw :) ) good in general for WYSIWYG designing. I like very much the split page, so that you can see the code and the design at the same time.

This is all I can say.

In addition, I had a question for you. How do you cope with WYSIWYG designing? I find it boring difficult to repair.

[lyceum]

Lyceum,

I had a glance to Amaya. As a matter of fast I do not do WYSIWYG designing at all, I code it.

My impression of what I sow was, (i.e What I Got From What I Saw :) ) good in general for WYSIWYG designing. I like very much the split page, so that you can see the code and the design at the same time.

This is all I can say.

In addition, I had a question for you. How do you cope with WYSIWYG designing? I find it boring difficult to repair.

I generally do not do WYSIWYG designing, but I will use GIMP to create the look of the page before making the page. If I do not have time to do anything, I will create a quick pare in OOo, like I would in GIMP. By saving as html, I have the website, then I just open the html in Bluefish or Aptana and fix the code and make the page "for real". It is faster, but really sloppy. It can end up being more work, but if I have to show someone something quick, it helps. To be honest, I really only do it for school :)

[AJB2K3]

I don't really use WYSIWYG but I just downloaded amaya to try it.

[banago]

It is faster, but really sloppy. It can end up being more work ...

That's the point!

[Achetar]

Until we get some kind of competent flash equivalent in open source, real web-design will be off limits for linux users.
I mean sure, you can make nice blog and forum themes, but if you really want to show ppl you mean buisness at least some animated buttons, if not even a flash preloader and opening animation are in order.
Are you kidding? Flash is not good for anything but games and ads. It is impossible to pick them up with a search engine, and are harder and costlier to design.

[LaRoza]

Until we get some kind of competent flash equivalent in open source, real web-design will be off limits for linux users.
I mean sure, you can make nice blog and forum themes, but if you really want to show ppl you mean buisness at least some animated buttons, if not even a flash preloader and opening animation are in order.

Flash is rarely needed.

One should test sites in as many browsers and resolutions as possible. Site should degrade gracefully as well.

Flash, although useful for somethings, rarely degrades gracefully. If something calls for Flash, then use it. Its indiscrimate use is really bad.

Also, keep in mind that sites should work in text browsers. (I use Lynx)

That may seem like a silly requirement, but consider that search engines see sites like that, and that screen readers read like that, it is essential.

If you don't make your sites handicap accessible, you are breaking the law in some areas.

[AJB2K3]

Flash is rarely needed.

One should test sites in as many browsers and resolutions as possible. Site should degrade gracefully as well.

Flash, although useful for somethings, rarely degrades gracefully. If something calls for Flash, then use it. Its indiscrimate use is really bad.

Also, keep in mind that sites should work in text browsers. (I use Lynx)

That may seem like a silly requirement, but consider that search engines see sites like that, and that screen readers read like that, it is essential.

If you don't make your sites handicap accessible, you are breaking the law in some areas.
Its unknown but the law bit effect the uk too.

The problem with web coding is that not everyone will bother with all the non graphical stuff screen readers/text browsers need :confused::confused:

Thanks LaRoza - just started using lynx to test my site and its quite interesting reading.

[LaRoza]

Thanks LaRoza - just started using lynx to test my site and its quite interesting reading.

Yes, it is a good browser.

Also, so many people try to use markup to control presentation. Markup should describe the logic of the page, CSS is for presentation.

[matherians2]

Cool, I will try scream too.

[SpiderGorilla]

Are you kidding? Flash is not good for anything but games and ads. It is impossible to pick them up with a search engine, and are harder and costlier to design.

It's also quite good for animation. Problem is, sometimes people want their animations seen without those silly down-sampling artifacts that have a terrible habit of cropping up in all saved video. I know it bugs the bejeesus out of me.

[foridea]

Useful knowledge

[littlemog]

At the present I believe Flash is moving out of the general playground rules it was once relegated to. If the idea is still that Flash is meant for 'intros' and 'swishy buttons', that it's definitely not worth going into. Flash with Ascript is now more suited to be deployed for interactive applications, or commercial online video deployment (via Flash media server) or for desktop deployment via AIR.

Not to enough use of it for dumb purposes but not to diss it too much either. :)

[farruinn]

I find that WYSIWYG editors are clumsy and slow to work with, so I use vim for all my editing.

[Mongo5000]

IMO, flash has its uses for me. Nice banners and maybe buttons. But other than that, I avoid it.

[littlemog]

wouldn't it be better to deploy javascript for buttons?(unless you mean the reallly spiffy ones :))

[Tux Aubrey]

Ok. Sounds interesting. But at the risk of being flamed (or reigniting debate about what a "real" web designer is) I would really like to know why so many people are so into coding their own sites from scratch.

Why do so many bother when there are so many free CMS tools (and plug-ins etc) around? Products like Joomla!, Mambo, Drupal etc etc appear to be behind a huge number of "professional" sites and (IMO) give you a fair amount of design freedom - and time to spend on getting your content right.

Is this need to code a student/geek thing or am I missing something? :)

[lyceum]

Ok. Sounds interesting. But at the risk of being flamed (or reigniting debate about what a "real" web designer is) I would really like to know why so many people are so into coding their own sites from scratch.

Why do so many bother when there are so many free CMS tools (and plug-ins etc) around? Products like Joomla!, Mambo, Drupal etc etc appear to be behind a huge number of "professional" sites and (IMO) give you a fair amount of design freedom - and time to spend on getting your content right.

Is this need to code a student/geek thing or am I missing something? :)

1 word: control. The main idea here is not between from scratch and Drupal, I am learning to use Drupal right now. The difference is WYSIWYG and real coding. WYSIWYG does not make very clean code, so you have to go in and fix it, it is easier and you have more control if you just write the code yourself from scratch. The other side is "who cares about control, I just want to make a site quick and easy", for this people use a WYSIWYG.

[bvanaerde]

For those that really can't let go of DreamWeaver, this can be installed easily with Wine-doors (http://www.wine-doors.org). Of course, you have to have a DW license.
edit: IE6 and Flash 9 can be installed too.

[lyceum]

For those that really can't let go of DreamWeaver, this can be installed easily with Wine-doors (http://www.wine-doors.org). Of course, you have to have a DW license.
edit: IE6 and Flash 9 can be installed too.

I tried that and couldn't get it to work, that was a few months ago. I have a new computer, so maybe I will try again. I just want to get Flash running on my computer so i can build Flash sites without booting into Windows. I can't get it to run with WINE and I don't like the idea of "pulling" it over from Windows.

[duckgoesoink]

Until we get some kind of competent flash equivalent in open source, real web-design will be off limits for linux users.
I mean sure, you can make nice blog and forum themes, but if you really want to show ppl you mean buisness at least some animated buttons, if not even a flash preloader and opening animation are in order.
I hate the millions of unneccessary flash intros, animated buttons, etc on the web. Usually it serves no functional purpose and just annoys the hell out of me - I don't like being forced to wait to see the content, and if you have to put a "skip intro" link, why bother putting the intro there in the first place? I do love flash when well used (I think it works great for time-limited mini promotional sites, truly interactive applications, streaming video, etc). But so much flash I see is just a waste of time, and inaccessible.

"Real" web design does not rely on Flash, so it is perfectly possible for linux users to be web designers. We are definitely NOT limited to blog and forum themes. My guess would be that e-commerce sites and sites using CMS would be difficult to design in Flash.. XHTML/CSS rock on!

I use GIMPshop (transition was easier for me than the pure GIMP - one day I'll get there), Inkscape, Geany (I like the highlighting and indentation), and various browsers for testing.

[littlemog]

agreed. I find the generally problem being a lot of 'web designers' come from a impromptu background, and while I'm not dissing this journey, many lack the necessary training that a real art college provides (e.g. typography, colors, sense, foundation levels exposure who are found in my bauhaus styled schools) so often there's a emphasis on the tools as opposed to conceptualizing where the tools that fit to execute an idea well comes into play only then.

Is webdesign really just buttons and intros...etc? I remember way in my days as a design student, when joshua davis of praystation fame was speaking in my country at a conference i attended... he was showing off onceuponaforest (can't remember the exact name) - a site that just story told in flash and i was blown away. he's still going strong (praystation.com) and i cite this just as an example.

[farruinn]

Ok. Sounds interesting. But at the risk of being flamed (or reigniting debate about what a "real" web designer is) I would really like to know why so many people are so into coding their own sites from scratch.

Why do so many bother when there are so many free CMS tools (and plug-ins etc) around?

It's not a coding vs cms debate, it's a coding vs WYSIWYG debate. The people who create systems like Drupal obviously don't use WYSIWYG editors to do that. Also, I manage a Drupal based site and I always select the "php" editing option when creating new content.

[Tux Aubrey]

on CMS vs WYSIWYG:

Thanks lyceum and farruinn for your responses. Fair enough, too. I understand that many people have the need for a higher degree of control than offered by the editors that come built-in to CMS systems and other WYSIWYG editors.

Professionally, I am a buyer of Web design services and I also do some of my own as a hobby/service for friends (eg cafebotanical.com). I find that many (not all) designers seem to get so finicky about the mechanics that they loose focus on what a site is supposed to deliver to the bulk of users. There seem to be many web sites around that are beautifully coded and very pretty but which deliver SFA in terms of useable info and a positive overall experience. Just last night I was browsing a graphic artist's site that had so much clever flash stuff, pop-ups and lovely navigation tools it ran like a dog and I gave up browsing the very few galleries that the guy had bothered to upload.

Sometimes I think a stripped back Joomla! site would deliver far more than a beautifuly coded site. There is of course room for both.

[sandwormblues]

Here's why I am pulling my hair out trying to get qflash or f4l to work: In flash, a LOT more is possible than with css/html. it's nice to escape the realm of tables, rows and rectangles, every now and then. This is just from an artist's perspective.

[duckgoesoink]

Here's why I am pulling my hair out trying to get qflash or f4l to work: In flash, a LOT more is possible than with css/html. it's nice to escape the realm of tables, rows and rectangles, every now and then. This is just from an artist's perspective.

Tables? Not for layout I hope? Rows and rectangles?

(I do understand what you're saying about Flash not having limits in terms of layout - sometimes it's a better choice for a particular project, but XHTML/CSS is not limited to tables, rows and rectangles - images break it up, you can put them anywhere. And normally you wouldn't use tables for layout these days.)

[factotum218]

I will probably get lynched for saying this but I run a VM with CS3 when i have to bring my work home with me. Then again I do front end work for the most part.
On my freelance work I usualy just take Drupal or Joomla and theme the living snot out of it.

[littlemog]

maybe we should all post our portfolios ^_^

that helps to drawn conclusions fast.

[kathryn]

There is a forum council meeting coming up next month [March 2008]. LaRoza has added the web developer forum request to the agenda and will attend the meeting.

If you have an interest in web design (using Ubuntu), lend your support by voting in the poll (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=585863) associated with a similar thread. The council is more likely to approve the request if we can demonstrate a sufficient demand for the proposed sub-forum.

[kathryn]

on CMS vs WYSIWYG:
There seem to be many web sites around that are beautifully coded and very pretty but which deliver SFA in terms of useable info and a positive overall experience.

I laughed at that line. So true.

I really dislike "mystery meat" navigation where the user is required to randomly click identical but unlabelled buttons or irrelevant images to move around the site. A beautiful design is meaningless without worthwhile content and logical navigation.

[Tux Aubrey]

"On my freelance work I usualy just take Drupal or Joomla and theme the living snot out of it."

Sounds like a great topic for an early post to the proposed new Web Design forum - "Theming the Living Snot Out of Drupal and Joomla".:popcorn:

[littlemog]

or "Snotting the life out of Drupal and Joomla without getting too messy" ^_^

[geoken]

Until we get some kind of competent flash equivalent in open source, real web-design will be off limits for linux users.
I mean sure, you can make nice blog and forum themes, but if you really want to show ppl you mean buisness at least some animated buttons, if not even a flash preloader and opening animation are in order.

Personally, if your goals with flash extend beyond what most people consider the annoying uses of flash then the tools to create flash on Linux already exist.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/geoken/flex.jpg

[shosta]

I develop in-house database applications with web interface for my company. I use plain old paper for early web design interface and openoffice (impress) for fast sketch of web pages and navigation between them.

Do you know if there are graphics templates of usual visual elements of web pages (like tabs, inputs, radio buttons, ...)?
I'm in search of something like Powerpoint prototyping toolkit (http://www.istartedsomething.com/20071018/powerpoint-prototype-toolkit-01/).

By the way, I found this program for early sketching: denim (http://dub.washington.edu/projects/denim/). I think i'll give a try.

):P

[Dithers]

Most of the progs suggested are just text editors. I have a feeling you want a little more. Have you tried Kompozer I come from Dreamweaver and it has a similar feel. I like so far.

[Dithers]

Zend all the way. If your a PHP programmer then i wouldn't use any other application for we programming.


Just checked it out and it's $900... I'll stick with Kompozer and Bluefish thanks

[Ioky]

Gimp/ inkscape + Bluefish will do almost everything for you, and you might also what as much as Browser as possible, just so you can see is your site look the same in all Browser.

[factotum218]

I really dislike "mystery meat" navigation

LOL I read that book too! I didnt even know it was in print still. Ah the days of "html goodies". Picking it up and thinking to myself "people actually write books about this?"

[dapaintballer331]

Using wine, you can easily install and run dreamweaver 8 inside Ubuntu.

http://gamerssoft.com/index.php?page=blog&article=dreamweaver

Bluefish, gedit, gphpwhatever have highlighting issues, and Nvu is buggy as well. Komposer was supposed to solve many bugs, but it still isn't up to par with Dreamweaver.

Dreamweaver CS3 is even better, but I haven't tried it in Ubuntu... I'm going to take a shot at this...

[shaunbarlow]

Using wine, you can easily install and run dreamweaver 8 inside Ubuntu.

http://gamerssoft.com/index.php?page=blog&article=dreamweaver

Bluefish, gedit, gphpwhatever have highlighting issues, and Nvu is buggy as well. Komposer was supposed to solve many bugs, but it still isn't up to par with Dreamweaver.

Dreamweaver CS3 is even better, but I haven't tried it in Ubuntu... I'm going to take a shot at this...


That's not exactly in the spirit of open source, is it?
Thanks all for contributing to this fine thread. I'm getting back into a bit of web design and haven't touched it since I switched 100% to linux a year or two back. Back in the day I too was a Dreamweaver fanboy. I'll try and share my experiences with the native linux programs I try. Realising I may be classed as a noob or sellout, I'm going to check out nvu first cos I'm a bit of a wysiwyg dependent scaredy-cat.

Cheerio

[banago]

sorry if this thread is in the wrong spot, i was wondering what sort of applications are available to help with web design? as in css editors and other applications of the sort?


I do web design and development with UBUNTU. My tool are:

1. LMAPP - for web environment
2. BlueFish - for codding xHTML, CSS, PHP
3. Inkscape - for designing and illustrating
4. GIMP - for image retouching

I hope you will find that helpful. Good Luck!

[johnswb]

Sup guys, How are you updating your sites? when I was running windoze I had no problem updating my site. I'm using KompoZer in Ubuntu and get the following message when trying to publish my site: 550 index.html: Permission denied I've read through this post and see you guys are able to update/publish your pages. I can see the index.html file in KompoZer, I just can't update it. I really don't want to go back to windoze, please help a noob linux user.

[linuxisfree]

sorry if this thread is in the wrong spot, i was wondering what sort of applications are available to help with web design? as in css editors and other applications of the sort?

i'm just interested as at work i'm forced to do my designing with dreamweaver on the pc, i'd like to see/hear of an alternative.

any help will be apreciated :-)

You could probably try Kompozer... seems good.:D

[austinwilde]

I guess I am'old school'. A friend I knew at Sun Microsystems managed their site using VIM on Solaris, and I have pretty much stuck with hand-coding. Most of my work is done very fast using a terminal in one or three desktops for code, one somewhere for CLI FTP and a code snippet file open in another. I also use The Gimp and Xara Extreme Beta for fraphics. I am a web designer who does a bit of other coding as well.

Open Source = Power to the People, Man!

[lyceum]

Most of the progs suggested are just text editors. I have a feeling you want a little more. Have you tried Kompozer I come from Dreamweaver and it has a similar feel. I like so far.

I checked out KompoZer recently and for a free WYSIWYG, it is great. However, as a code editor it sucks. I tried to edit the code and when I want to see what it looked like in the preview screen and came back, it had messed up the code I wrote changing it to the way it wanted it. That is not cool.

[Diabolis]

I checked out KompoZer recently and for a free WYSIWYG, it is great. However, as a code editor it sucks. I tried to edit the code and when I want to see what it looked like in the preview screen and came back, it had messed up the code I wrote changing it to the way it wanted it. That is not cool.

Thats why I gave up with kompozer and went back to gedit.

[AJB2K3]

550 =
FTP: The 550 error is a message from the server stating that the account you have currently logged in as does not have permission to perform the action you are attempting

SMTP: unable to relay When the Simple Mail Transport Protocol (SMTP) service is configured with a very large number of alias domains, the following error message may be returned for some of the domains:

I use Gimp/Inkscape and the W3C app Amaya.
I don't see anyone else mentioning Amaya.

[pchawk]

Most of my work is done with the text editor that comes with kubuntu Kate. It has syntax highlighting for many program and markup languages, as for project management etc i just keep track of my files.

Graphics i've always managed with the gimp, tho I dare say a newbi would have troubles getting used to it.

Quanta plus is also good, has code view / page preview / wysiwyg editor so can do just as much as dreamweaver in much of what it does. I quite like the code features it includes. The code editor uses kate as a base for syntax highlighting, means u can use it for perl / asp / php / html ..... list goes on

You can also use Gedit, with some minor addons todo.:D
(look up: Transform Gedit Into A Web Developer IDE)

[prokoudine]

You can also use Gedit, with some minor addons todo.:D
(look up: Transform Gedit Into A Web Developer IDE)

In fact, even configuring snippets makes a huge difference :) I quitted using Bluefish after discovering them.

[overdrank]

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5451/necromancing.jpg