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roelforg
May 22nd, 2012, 09:59 AM
I started to notice how people are walking around with the latest shiny laptops.
When they see me and my beat-up (well, only a few scratches on the lid but the thing just looks old, and i don't care) acer, they laugh at me for using that old thing.
But when they see the smooth 3D and it's speed, they're silent.
Anyways, i've noticed how the number of ports on laptops is shrinking and screens keep decreasing in vertical space.
I also dislike (but that's personal) the shinyness because it scratches so fast.

So, are laptops getting worse?
Post your opinion now!

Paqman
May 22nd, 2012, 10:20 AM
They were getting a lot worse very quickly for a while, but things have improved a bit. They were getting enormous, it used to be easy to buy a sensible 13" or so laptop that didn't weigh a ton, but then people started buying them as desktop replacements and portability seemed to drop off the list of requirements.

Glossy screens are awful, but people keep buying them so somebody must like them. At least some matte options are creeping back in.

Battery life still sucks for everything except Macbooks and netbooks. Once Win8 lands we should finally get the ARM machines and that'll hopefully improve.

Skara Brae
May 22nd, 2012, 10:36 AM
Yes, they are getting worse, and for the same reasons that you, roelforg, mention.


Once Win8 lands we should finally get the ARM machines and that'll hopefully improve.
Microsoft Windows improving? I would find that astounding.

roelforg
May 22nd, 2012, 10:37 AM
Yes, they are getting worse, and for the same reasons that you, roelforg, mention.


Microsoft Windows improving? I would find that astounding.

Me too, and suddenly having every x86(_64) binary package useless on those arm systems isn't very useful either (just look at the debian-arm team and the difference between the arm and normal repos).

Paqman
May 22nd, 2012, 10:41 AM
Microsoft Windows improving? I would find that astounding.

I meant that once Microsoft ship an ARM version of Windows manufacturers will start to put ARM laptops in the shops in decent numbers. Anyone with good taste will of course be running Linux on them ;)

roelforg
May 22nd, 2012, 10:45 AM
I meant that once Microsoft ship an ARM version of Windows manufacturers will start to put ARM laptops in the shops in decent numbers. Anyone with good taste will of course be running Linux on them ;)

Anyone who followed the news right knows that ms will only let arm windows run on a mobo when it's locked to the point where only windows can run.

Erik1984
May 22nd, 2012, 10:48 AM
They were getting a lot worse very quickly for a while, but things have improved a bit. They were getting enormous, it used to be easy to buy a sensible 13" or so laptop that didn't weigh a ton, but then people started buying them as desktop replacements and portability seemed to drop off the list of requirements.

Glossy screens are awful, but people keep buying them so somebody must like them. At least some matte options are creeping back in.

Battery life still sucks for everything except Macbooks and netbooks. Once Win8 lands we should finally get the ARM machines and that'll hopefully improve.

Improving for Windows usage maybe. ARM notebooks that are Windows 8 certified will have secure boot that can't be turned off. I do look forward to ARM notebooks running Ubuntu, just hope there will be any.

roelforg
May 22nd, 2012, 10:49 AM
Improving for Windows usage maybe. ARM notebooks that are Windows 8 certified will have secure boot that can't be turned off. I do look forward to ARM notebooks running Ubuntu, just hope there will be any.

+1
But don't forget that the repos for arm will have to catch up first.

Paqman
May 22nd, 2012, 10:50 AM
Anyone who followed the news right knows that ms will only let arm windows run on a mobo when it's locked to the point where only windows can run.

The jury's still out on that. MS have time to flipflop on this (as is their way), and it's likely to get cracked pretty quickly. Just look at how quickly the Android community overcame signed bootloaders on the phones from a couple of years ago.

I'm not a subscriber to the Chicken Little camp of opinion on secure boot, even on ARM. The Linux community does this all the time, there's a great wailing and gnashing of teeth on some issue that turns out to be nothing.

roelforg
May 22nd, 2012, 10:53 AM
The jury's still out on that. MS have time to flipflop on this (as is their way), and it's likely to get cracked pretty quickly. Just look at how quickly the Android community overcame signed bootloaders on the phones from a couple of years ago.

I'm not a subscriber to the Chicken Little camp of opinion on secure boot, even on ARM. The Linux community does this all the time, there's a great wailing and gnashing of teeth on some issue that turns out to be nothing.

I know, but the difference between the android thing and the secure boot is this:
MS (a company with a very big influence) will force mobo makers to have their BIOS prevent the booting of any bootloader/os that doesn't match windows, Google never did such a thing with android.

Grenage
May 22nd, 2012, 10:55 AM
It depends what you want, I suppose; I'm a big chap, not a little girl, so 1Kg or 10Kg it makes little difference. I'd rather have a large laptop with a full-size keyboard, a 17"+ screen, and poor battery life, than a 14-15" calculator. I have little to no patience with most laptops.

As above, glossy screens are awful.

Paqman
May 22nd, 2012, 11:01 AM
I know, but the difference between the android thing and the secure boot is this:
MS (a company with a very big influence) will force mobo makers to have their BIOS prevent the booting of any bootloader/os that doesn't match windows, Google never did such a thing with android.

No, but OEMs like HTC did on their phones, just like MS will force OEMs to with Win8. It turned out to be pointless and unpopular on Android, and it'll be the same with ARM PCs.

Here's a prediction for you: the open source community will have a single-shot crack for it within six months of the Win8 release date.

MisterGaribaldi
May 22nd, 2012, 12:50 PM
Why do people want to buy the cheapest thing and then feel entitled to b***h about how crappy it is?

I own a MBP, have great and solid hardware, good battery life, and none of the headaches others do.

eyeofliberty
May 22nd, 2012, 01:11 PM
I just bought a 5 year old ThinkPad T61, and other than battery life, it's awesome. Runs 12.04 like a dream. I've had such great experiences with ThinkPads over the years, I don't think I would own anything else, except a Macbook. I don't have the cash to lay down for one of those, however. Most laptops I see do look like cheap junk, compared to these.

kurt18947
May 22nd, 2012, 03:11 PM
I know, but the difference between the android thing and the secure boot is this:
MS (a company with a very big influence{and a reputation for not playing well with others}) will force mobo makers to have their BIOS prevent the booting of any bootloader/os that doesn't match windows, Google never did such a thing with android.

I have a small taste of this on my current desktop. I have a Gigabyte Mobo with an Award modular BIOS. The boot module is said to have come from Microsoft. I cannot boot a live USB if it has a factory format or if it was formatted with Gparted. It must have been formatted in Windows then the LiveUSB created. Then it boots and functions perfectly. A live USB created on a drive with a factory format or formatted with Gparted will boot perfectly on every machine except the one with the Award modular BIOS.

roelforg
May 22nd, 2012, 03:23 PM
I have a small taste of this on my current desktop. I have a Gigabyte Mobo with an Award modular BIOS. The boot module is said to have come from Microsoft. I cannot boot a live USB if it has a factory format or if it was formatted with Gparted. It must have been formatted in Windows then the LiveUSB created. Then it boots and functions perfectly. A live USB created on a drive with a factory format or formatted with Gparted will boot perfectly on every machine except the one with the Award modular BIOS.

Lemme guess... UEFI bios?
Most of my systems have award bios as well and they don't mind where i created my usb so it might be your specific version.
UEFI will boot it if you created it on linux, but you need a gpt

rg4w
May 22nd, 2012, 03:37 PM
What I find disheartening is how difficult it's become to find a laptop with a resolution greater than 768p for under $800.

I still use my Vostro 1400, with its Core2 Duo and Nvidia card, because I can't find another laptop with 1440x900 resolution that's any smaller or lighter for a price that isn't twice or three times as high.

When did manufacturers decide that every screen size, from 11" to 17" needs to have 1366x768? I can understand it on an 11" or 14", but on big screens it seems wasteful of the available space.

I've had to resign myself to waiting until late Summer when the the "ultrabook" prices will begin their inevitable freefall.

roelforg
May 22nd, 2012, 04:47 PM
What I find disheartening is how difficult it's become to find a laptop with a resolution greater than 768p for under $800.

I still use my Vostro 1400, with its Core2 Duo and Nvidia card, because I can't find another laptop with 1440x900 resolution that's any smaller or lighter for a price that isn't twice or three times as high.

When did manufacturers decide that every screen size, from 11" to 17" needs to have 1366x768? I can understand it on an 11" or 14", but on big screens it seems wasteful of the available space.

I've had to resign myself to waiting until late Summer when the the "ultrabook" prices will begin their inevitable freefall.

Yeah, it's also getting increasingly harder to find a laptop with a keyboard that's designed to fit the typist, not the size marketing wants it to be so they're smaller then another laptop.
I've seen laptops with keys with a diameter of 0,75cm (!) (that's about the size of your pinky).
Or those laptops that cramp your hands after 1 minute (that's why i'll never take a netbook, well that and other reasons).

Mikeb85
May 22nd, 2012, 07:07 PM
I'm in a situation where I'm looking for a laptop for the first time ever (!), I've always built my own desktops so I've always had every single feature I've wanted. Most of the laptops out there suck, strait up.

No wonder Apple's growing and most of the industry is sinking, they offer stylish, good hardware for a reasonable price (I've priced out competing ultrabooks and slim desktop replacements, they're the same price more or less).

In my own search, I've narrowed it down to either a Lenovo ThinkPad, or a Macbook. Leaning towards the ThinkPad though, I like how you can customize them, and the keyboards are better than Apple's (which are trash, and I'll be doing alot of typing).

roelforg
May 22nd, 2012, 07:39 PM
I'm in a situation where I'm looking for a laptop for the first time ever (!), I've always built my own desktops so I've always had every single feature I've wanted. Most of the laptops out there suck, strait up.

No wonder Apple's growing and most of the industry is sinking, they offer stylish, good hardware for a reasonable price (I've priced out competing ultrabooks and slim desktop replacements, they're the same price more or less).


*spits out drink*

Reasonable price and good hardware from apple?!!
Don't make me laugh!
Let me prove you wrong:
http://apcmag.com/apple-macbook-pro-2010-vs-2011-models-compared-spec-by-spec.htm
Take the first 2011 13inch one as an example,
i've got a packard bell with a 2.57GHz (up to 2.7 GHz) quad core intel i5 + 4gb ram + 500gb hdd + higher res (1300something) + larger screen (15.6 inch) + lower weight (1.something kg) + dedicated 512mb vram ATI card for... ~700 bucks in 2010...
The 2000+ 15 inch 2011 model finally catches up with that one (granted, not on the cpu but that's not everything).
And that packard bell was one of the cheapest models they had in the store, if you were spending 2000 bucks there you'd get a full on gaming with 6-8gb ram, multi terabyte hdd (or a large ssd) and top-level amd quad/hexa core with 1+gb dedicated vram on a dual gpu card!

The stylish part is subjective, i, for one, still find my old acer extensa very stylish.



In my own search, I've narrowed it down to either a Lenovo ThinkPad, or a Macbook. Leaning towards the ThinkPad though, I like how you can customize them, and the keyboards are better than Apple's (which are trash, and I'll be doing alot of typing).


Those thinkpads are known to be hard to break.
Though i wouldn't rule out a business-class acer, mine here's a 800-900 buck business laptop from 2007 and it has every port i ever needed (sans serial) and then some and i even slept on top of it a few times! No hw failures other then a died battery (it's five years old, the battery already lasted twice as long as it was designed to). It has a 256 dedicated vram ati card, 15.4 inch 16:10 screen, a keyboard that you can type on for houres on end without any pain...
Just a dream-machine IMHO.


(Sorry for the rant on apple, i just can't stand it anymore that people keep saying that the cheapest macbooks are better than others in the same price-range. The facts say: They're not! So quit telling those lies just because hollywood has a deal with apple giving them cheap macbooks!)

kurt18947
May 22nd, 2012, 08:07 PM
Lemme guess... UEFI bios?
Most of my systems have award bios as well and they don't mind where i created my usb so it might be your specific version.
UEFI will boot it if you created it on linux, but you need a gpt

No UEFI. I was poking around about this particular MoBo and I wasn't the only one having problems. It may well be this BIOS has some sort of custom foolishiness.

IWantFroyo
May 22nd, 2012, 08:12 PM
I want a 4:3 monitor laptop. Typing documents on these newer laptops is terrible...

KiwiNZ
May 22nd, 2012, 08:52 PM
The laptops I use are definately better. The only really really bad ones I come across these days are the HP heaters.

roelforg
May 22nd, 2012, 08:53 PM
I want a 4:3 monitor laptop. Typing documents on these newer laptops is terrible...

I dunno, my 16:10 acer has a very comfy keyboard.
I can hit around 360-400 keystrokes a minute on the thing (that's about 70 words per min, a full 40 higher than the avg. person and 10 higher than i can hit on other keyboards).

sammiev
May 22nd, 2012, 08:59 PM
I will never go back to a desktop now I have 4 laptops all running Linux. All my laptops ran perfectly right out of the box. :)

Grenage
May 22nd, 2012, 09:24 PM
The laptops I use are definately better. The only really really bad ones I come across these days are the HP heaters.

My favourite laptop was an old HP beast, with a second external battery that took the overall unit up to some considerable weight. It also doubled as a doorstop and boat anchor - good battery life, though!

Come to think of it, it kept the tent warm on camping trips.

IWantFroyo
May 22nd, 2012, 09:41 PM
I dunno, my 16:10 acer has a very comfy keyboard.
I can hit around 360-400 keystrokes a minute on the thing (that's about 70 words per min, a full 40 higher than the avg. person and 10 higher than i can hit on other keyboards).

Time to add a nicer keyboard to the wish list as well.

georgelappies
May 22nd, 2012, 09:55 PM
No they are not, there is just a lot more of them. Especially at the low end of the market flooding the shops with sub standard stuff.

The higher end quality laptops like the Dell XPS machines etcetera are still there and they just keep on getting better.

Mikeb85
May 22nd, 2012, 10:31 PM
*spits out drink*

Reasonable price and good hardware from apple?!!
Don't make me laugh!


Try to find an Ultrabook that's the same price as the MacBook Air, with the same screen resolution and equivalent SSD. I've tried, the only 2 that are close are the Samsung Series 9, and the Asus Zenbook, both of which are in the same price range as the Air.

For laptop workstations and desktop replacements Apple is slightly more overpriced, I'll give you that, but then again, the ThinkPad I'm going to order (waiting on Ivy Bridge CPUs) is more than likely going to be more expensive than a Mac (more powerful too though).

Revolutionary101
May 22nd, 2012, 10:36 PM
I would disagree. I believe that they are getting better. My last laptop, which I had for 6 years, was a Sony Vaio FS-500 which had a single core 1.6 GHz Pentium M. Most of the body was entirely plastic, except for the back of the screen. For ports it had 3 USB 2.0, Express Card Slot, VGA, Audio In, Audio Out, Memory Card Slot, Ethernet, Modem connection and a DVD read optical drive.

As for my current laptop, a Dell XPS 15 inch with a Intel 2820QM 2.3 GHz processor, is absolutely amazing (granted I thought my old laptop was too when I got it). It has a sold metal build and the entire bottom is unibody. As for ports it has 2 USB 3.0, 1 USB 2.0/Esata, Blu-Ray Read/Write drive, Audio Out S/P DIF, Audio Out, Audio In, HDMI Out, Display Port, Ethernet, and Multi-card reader. For speakers it has the best in class, 2 standard speakers with a subwoofer on bottom.

With the amount of ports on my current laptop and the build quality, I would have to say laptops have come a long way.

MisterGaribaldi
May 23rd, 2012, 02:08 AM
You know, it's funny how people like to rant on Apple and their hardware, and I'm not trying in any way to say it's the absolute end-all, be-all, because nobody's box is that, but you don't really see people complaining. Well, actually, except for those people who buy a Honda Accord and then b***h that it won't pull a 20 ft. trailer.

Buy what you need, and you'll be fine.

The Lenovo (nee IBM) ThinkPads are pretty rugged beasts, Mikeb85, but then again what you're looking at on the PC side are fairly rugged, too.

Issues, of course, with you buying a MBP have more to do with what it's "intended" purpose is. A Mac is not and never has been a Linux box, and unless Tim Cook decides differently in the future, they will never be. Yes, they can run Linux, but again you're buying a product from Apple because of what Apple is selling you, not because "it's just another computer". There is, no question, a difference between Apple's products and other PC makers' ones, simply because of three things: Apple doesn't produce and doesn't care to produce "commodity" products; Apple sells "solutions" and not just "computers"; and Apple isn't just another Microsoft licensee.

Also, what's wrong with a MBP's keyboard? It types just fine for me. Did you want an integrated numeric keyboard?

roelforg
May 23rd, 2012, 09:26 AM
I would disagree. I believe that they are getting better. My last laptop, which I had for 6 years, was a Sony Vaio FS-500 which had a single core 1.6 GHz Pentium M. Most of the body was entirely plastic, except for the back of the screen. For ports it had 3 USB 2.0, Express Card Slot, VGA, Audio In, Audio Out, Memory Card Slot, Ethernet, Modem connection and a DVD read optical drive.

As for my current laptop, a Dell XPS 15 inch with a Intel 2820QM 2.3 GHz processor, is absolutely amazing (granted I thought my old laptop was too when I got it). It has a sold metal build and the entire bottom is unibody. As for ports it has 2 USB 3.0, 1 USB 2.0/Esata, Blu-Ray Read/Write drive, Audio Out S/P DIF, Audio Out, Audio In, HDMI Out, Display Port, Ethernet, and Multi-card reader. For speakers it has the best in class, 2 standard speakers with a subwoofer on bottom.

With the amount of ports on my current laptop and the build quality, I would have to say laptops have come a long way.

I get your points.
But i'd guess the prices of your laptops were/are very different, am i right?
They're valid points, though.

satsujinka
May 23rd, 2012, 09:56 AM
One thing I find it hard to complain about is price. My first laptop cost $1000, my current one $460. My new laptop is also about 10x faster. Though, my vertical space has declined (16:10 to 16:9) which is pathetic considering my first was a 14" and I now have a 15.6" screen.
In short, screens are worse today, but everything else is better.

roelforg
May 23rd, 2012, 10:00 AM
You know, it's funny how people like to rant on Apple and their hardware, and I'm not trying in any way to say it's the absolute end-all, be-all, because nobody's box is that, but you don't really see people complaining. Well, actually, except for those people who buy a Honda Accord and then b***h that it won't pull a 20 ft. trailer.

Buy what you need, and you'll be fine.



I agree on that.
Though it's still funny that the prices of laptops that are still designed for real use* have risen.

*=Think: Comfy, well equipped (not only in specs ;)), rugged/rigid, etc




The Lenovo (nee IBM) ThinkPads are pretty rugged beasts, Mikeb85, but then again what you're looking at on the PC side are fairly rugged, too.



Agreed




Issues, of course, with you buying a MBP have more to do with what it's "intended" purpose is. A Mac is not and never has been a Linux box, and unless Tim Cook decides differently in the future, they will never be. Yes, they can run Linux, but again you're buying a product from Apple because of what Apple is selling you, not because "it's just another computer". There is, no question, a difference between Apple's products and other PC makers' ones, simply because of three things: Apple doesn't produce and doesn't care to produce "commodity" products; Apple sells "solutions" and not just "computers"; and Apple isn't just another Microsoft licensee.



*claps* You got the point of my post!
It's not a rant on apple specifically.
But more on the fact that most people are comparing (no pun intended) apples to blueberries.
You don't want to know how often i have this conversation:


"Dude, get a macbook! They're much faster, better and shinier than your obsolete laptop!"
Then i say: "They're not."
They say: "Yes it is! It can do all the heavy stuff and boots in 10 seconds."
I say: "Yet my *airquote*obsolete*airquote* laptop beats the cheapest macbook with ease and it's still 500 bucks cheaper then a macbook! And if i put some time in it i can get even better boot times than that. And i can run all that heavy stuff on a 5yrs old laptop already without any imperfection in the result. I don't have to get a new one every few years because apple decides to drop support. I don't have to pay huge amounts of money to have a part replaced and pay for the part and wait for several days before they give you the thing back, i buy the part for <100 bucks (in general that's their cost) and use my trusty screwdriver to swap the parts in about an hour."
Then they say: "But mac's are made by APPLE!!!"
I say: "So? To me, all laptops are equal. I choose on what has the best specs for the best price with the best hardware. I couldn't care less about the brand or the looks (though i dislike the plastic feeling of most laptops)."
Then they say: "APPLE stuff is always better than stuff from other makers."
I say: "Why? Because of the price? Or is it because hollywood uses them all the time, and that's just because apple has a deal with them."
Then they say: "It's just better because it's APPLE."

And it continues like that for a while, i give valid points and questions about the opinion (the one they state as if it's a fact) while all they can say to defend it "Because it's apple!"
I don't like mac's myself, but if someone says that i should get one, i want them to give me valid points to defend that.
When i buy a computer i usually enumerate the pros and cons of different systems and buy the one that has the best pro/con/price ratio and it just doesn't look good for macbooks in that comparison.




Also, what's wrong with a MBP's keyboard? It types just fine for me. Did you want an integrated numeric keyboard?

There's nothing wrong with them (quite the opposite, in fact*), i just pointed out mbp isn't the only manufacturer with good keyboards.

Like you said, no box is perfect.

EDIT:
*=What keyboard style works best all depends on what fits your hands/arm/position the best.

scratman
May 23rd, 2012, 10:06 AM
For what it's worth, I don't think laptops are getting worse. I mean, I'm using a second hand laptop at the moment, it's got a 1.73Ghz processor, 3gb of RAM, and an 80 gig hard drive. Is this an amazing machine, no, but it's more than I need for the vast majority of the things I do on a day-to-day basis, and I have a USB powered external drive and pen drive for storing things on. When new, the previous owner paid circa 400, I paid 50 because they didn't want it any more, and they thought it was damaged beyond repair. One 10 replacement charger later, and it's running like a dream.

Shiny screens are horrendous, it's simply impossible to get work done in anything brighter than a well lit room, thus ruling out the ability to be productive outdoors, which is surely the point of a laptop.... Fortunately mine has a matt screen, and performs pretty well under most circumstances.

My only bugbear is the standard 2 hour battery life, but then I am using a desktop replacement machine, and as such the battery life is low. If it's meant to sit on a desktop, and just be moved every now and then, who cares about the minimal battery life?

In all honesty, yes, there are things that I would change about laptops these days, HD Webcams should be the default, as should a minimum 4 hour battery life. Either way, your money gets you a lot more today than it did 12 months ago, and who's gonna complain about that?

Mikeb85
May 23rd, 2012, 05:12 PM
Also, what's wrong with a MBP's keyboard? It types just fine for me. Did you want an integrated numeric keyboard?

No, I just found from playing with the MacBooks in the Apple store, the keys are flat, don't have much travel or feel, and don't feel particularly solid to me. That being said, they also have the nicest trackpad, and nicest screens for the most part.

What has me sold on a ThinkPad, is the keyboard, the Trackpoint 'pointing stick' (it's nice not having to move your hand away from the keyboard), and the customization options. Otherwise I'd probably be buying a Mac, because the offerings from Asus/Samsung/HP/Dell really don't interest me.

Revolutionary101
May 23rd, 2012, 05:14 PM
I get your points.
But i'd guess the prices of your laptops were/are very different, am i right?
They're valid points, though.

There was a 300 dollar price difference but considering inflation over the past years that difference is shrunk. Also, even if I got a Dell XPS 15 for the same price as my original laptop all I would have to forfeit would be the faster processor. Build quality and ports would still remain the same.

roelforg
May 23rd, 2012, 05:19 PM
There was a 300 dollar price difference but considering inflation over the past years that difference is shrunk. Also, even if I got a Dell XPS 15 for the same price as my original laptop all I would have to forfeit would be the faster processor. Build quality and ports would still remain the same.

Ah.
But did you consider the inflation over the components that the vendor pays?
I mean, if the components become more expensive (not counting inflation, because in the end you spend, say, 10 bucks, on the part and not the 5 (or whatever) you'd pay correcting inflation), so would the laptop.
Right? (cause i might be overlooking some huge and obvious thing here, economics isn't my strongest side).

Revolutionary101
May 23rd, 2012, 07:09 PM
Ah.
But did you consider the inflation over the components that the vendor pays?
I mean, if the components become more expensive (not counting inflation, because in the end you spend, say, 10 bucks, on the part and not the 5 (or whatever) you'd pay correcting inflation), so would the laptop.
Right? (cause i might be overlooking some huge and obvious thing here, economics isn't my strongest side).

What I was trying to say is that my $1200 Sony Vaio from 2004 would cost something more than that due to inflation. Regardless of how small of a change it would be from then till now it would still bring the prices of the two laptops closer.

Even if I went with a base Dell XPS 15 for $999 compared to my old Vaio which was $1200 when I got it; the build quality, and ports would still be more impressive.

roelforg
May 23rd, 2012, 07:20 PM
What I was trying to say is that my $1200 Sony Vaio from 2004 would cost something more than that due to inflation. Regardless of how small of a change it would be from then till now it would still bring the prices of the two laptops closer.

Even if I went with a base Dell XPS 15 for $999 compared to my old Vaio which was $1200 when I got it; the build quality, and ports would still be more impressive.

Good point

Btw, ever noticed what the average laptop has nowadays? (just look around, you're gonna have trouble finding one in the consumer class (those dell ones are business class laptops) that has s-video, express card or pcicia)
I still have the great build qlty, great keyboard, 4usb 2.0 ports, vga&dvi&s-video, firewire, modem, gigabit lan, 256mb ati (the vram isn't everything, it has very good 3d accell), 16:10 15" screen, sound with both mic and linein, infrared, pcicia AND express card on my 800 buck acer from '07 as well (and that thing is still chugging along just fine and doesn't even break a sweat with the worst 3d stuff i can throw at it. That thing'll stay in use for a long time to come), so i agree that if you know what to look out for there are always great bargains with laptops that have the whole thing, but those are getting increasingly rare (or at least, they are here).

markp1989
May 23rd, 2012, 07:31 PM
I agree with a few previous posters, I hate glossy screens they really **** me off, my last 2 laptops have had glossy screens and it seems to be really hard to find a non glossy screen these days.

I think the ideal laptop screen size is 13" its big enough to work on but small enough for me to throw in my bag with my uni books, 10" and smaller screens are just a pain to do anything productive on you spend more time scrolling than you do actually working.

The main thing I have noticed is that budget laptops are getting worse by current laptop (asus ul30a *) sucks! the wrist wrests flex when typing and the entire keyboard bounces as you type, which after a while gets painful. The mouse also sucks, there is no border so I often find my self absently mindedly rubbing the wrist wrest, not to mention that it randomly thinks I have 2 fingers on it when I have 1, so I end up scrolling when trying to move the mouse, also the screen is dim/washed out and has poor viewing angles. Arghhh!!!

I remember a few years ago when I could get a 400 laptop and even though it as a budget laptop it still felt good to use, not as good as a premium laptop, but still a lot better than comparable priced laptops these days.

I recently ordered my self a 13" Mac Book Pro, which I am looking forward to getting, they feel like they are well built, have decent battery life and hold their value way better than any other brand of laptop, just go to wait for it to get here.



* http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=5263 This review says "solid build" but I dont agree.

Revolutionary101
May 23rd, 2012, 08:34 PM
Good point

Btw, ever noticed what the average laptop has nowadays? (just look around, you're gonna have trouble finding one in the consumer class (those dell ones are business class laptops) that has s-video, express card or pcicia)
I still have the great build qlty, great keyboard, 4usb 2.0 ports, vga&dvi&s-video, firewire, modem, gigabit lan, 256mb ati (the vram isn't everything, it has very good 3d accell), 16:10 15" screen, sound with both mic and linein, infrared, pcicia AND express card on my 800 buck acer from '07 as well (and that thing is still chugging along just fine and doesn't even break a sweat with the worst 3d stuff i can throw at it. That thing'll stay in use for a long time to come), so i agree that if you know what to look out for there are always great bargains with laptops that have the whole thing, but those are getting increasingly rare (or at least, they are here).

Well I think that s-video, express card and pcicia are older/out of date technologies. Anything that those were needed for can be done on some other port. I honestly think that a lot of what a computer is, comes from the user that is using it. People here on the forums are mostly people who want to squeeze every single ounce of productivity out of their computer. An average user may want/think they need a new computer every 2-3 years. Where as people like us understand that if you take care of these older laptops they will go a long way.

KiwiNZ
May 23rd, 2012, 08:42 PM
Well I think that s-video, express card and pcicia are older/out of date technologies. Anything that those were needed for can be done on some other port. I honestly think that a lot of what a computer is, comes from the user that is using it. People here on the forums are mostly people who want to squeeze every single ounce of productivity out of their computer. An average user may want/think they need a new computer every 2-3 years. Where as people like us understand that if you take care of these older laptops they will go a long way.

I seldom keep a PC, Laptop etc much beyond 2 years.

Revolutionary101
May 23rd, 2012, 08:44 PM
I seldom keep a PC, Laptop etc much beyond 2 years.

Haha as a college student, I can not afford that luxury.

KiwiNZ
May 23rd, 2012, 08:50 PM
Haha as a college student, I can not afford that luxury.

I can relate, I pass on a lot of my stuff to my sons, they are at Uni.

But I don't keep a lot of stuff for long I replace TV's etc about 2 to 3 years and I only keep cars for the duration of their new car warranty.

Paqman
May 24th, 2012, 12:18 PM
I seldom keep a PC, Laptop etc much beyond 2 years.

That's quite a turnover. Any particular reason?

wolfen69
May 25th, 2012, 06:27 AM
I started to notice how people are walking around with the latest shiny laptops.
When they see me and my beat-up (well, only a few scratches on the lid but the thing just looks old, and i don't care) acer, they laugh at me for using that old thing.


Sounds like you care what people think. :lolflag:

wolfen69
May 25th, 2012, 06:29 AM
I can relate, I pass on a lot of my stuff to my sons, they are at Uni.

But I don't keep a lot of stuff for long I replace TV's etc about 2 to 3 years and I only keep cars for the duration of their new car warranty.
No offense, but the stuff you pass on, most people would kill for.