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CodingBeaver
February 10th, 2012, 07:13 PM
TheWord Bible software is very easy to install in Wine and runs well. After you install Wine, just double click TheWord installer just like in Windows. But it seems that not many people here are using it, just curious, why?

www.theword.net (http://www.theword.net)

lisati
February 10th, 2012, 07:19 PM
I normally use Xiphos (http://xiphos.org/), which is in the repositories and doesn't need Wine. Somewhere in my CD-ROM collection I even have an official v5.something copy of e-sword.

CodingBeaver
February 10th, 2012, 07:35 PM
Oh, I see. It is the successor of GnomeSword and I used GnomeSword before. It is nice to have native one, but I like the design and UI of TheWord. (I tried Xiphos, the UI is ok, but it can do what it needs to do).

Thank you for your reply.

forrestcupp
February 10th, 2012, 10:30 PM
Pretty nice looking. I'll have to check it out some more.

My favorite is e-Sword, though, especially since I spent money on the NASB and Greek Hebrew Word Study modules. I finally got e-Sword to work perfectly in Wine, but it's slow as molasses. Xiphos is nice, but it can't do my NASB and Greek Hebrew modules that are important to me.


Edit: The Word looks pretty nice. They have a lot of selection for modules, both commercial, and free. It's too bad it can't import my e-sword modules. Does it run slow in Wine, or is it pretty quick?

CodingBeaver
February 10th, 2012, 10:40 PM
TheWord runs pretty fast on my pc. Also, on TheWord web site, there is a tool let you import modules from e-sword to TheWord (non-password protected modules), here is the link: http://www.theword.net/index.php?article.tools&l=english

forrestcupp
February 10th, 2012, 11:50 PM
Wow! Thanks for the referral. TheWord is very snappy with Wine, and it's one awesome Bible program. I'm liking it even better than e-Sword, and they have a lot of great modules. I even found some awesome things that e-Sword doesn't have. I'm thinking this is worth spending another $29 to get their NASB module.

Thanks again.

forrestcupp
February 11th, 2012, 03:45 AM
Well, you've sold me. If you haven't tried it already, you should check out The Biblical Illustrator module. That's one amazing resource.

CodingBeaver
February 11th, 2012, 06:49 PM
Can you give me a link? I had trouble finding it.

pbpersson
February 11th, 2012, 07:12 PM
I know nothing about Wine. If I wanted to install something in Wine on Lucid Lynx, would I install the Windows 7 version of the software? What version of Windows does Wine most closely align with?

Okay, I have installed it and I am using it now. This is so cool! :D

forrestcupp
February 11th, 2012, 10:50 PM
Can you give me a link? I had trouble finding it.

If you go to the main theword.net (http://www.theword.net) web site and go to the modules download section, click on the commentaries tab. It's the first free commentary in the list, titled Biblical Illustrator, The (BI). I've never seen a commentary have more information. There are pages worth of information just on the first verse of the Bible.

I'd also love to get the BDAG Greek-English lexicon, but I can't see myself spending $150 on it anytime soon. I did go ahead and buy the NASB bundle.

I'm pretty impressed with the selection of free modules. Thanks again for letting me know about this. I've never heard of it before.

CodingBeaver
February 14th, 2012, 08:32 PM
If you go to the main theword.net (http://www.theword.net) web site and go to the modules download section, click on the commentaries tab. It's the first free commentary in the list, titled Biblical Illustrator, The (BI). I've never seen a commentary have more information. There are pages worth of information just on the first verse of the Bible.

I'd also love to get the BDAG Greek-English lexicon, but I can't see myself spending $150 on it anytime soon. I did go ahead and buy the NASB bundle.

I'm pretty impressed with the selection of free modules. Thanks again for letting me know about this. I've never heard of it before.

Thank you, and I found it. Really cool commentary.

jonathonblake
February 15th, 2012, 03:02 PM
But it seems that not many people here are using it, just curious, why?

If one is going to migrate from their existing Biblical Software program to a new one, the more rational choice is to use something that runs as a native program on the platform that they are using.
One other point to consider is that for more than eighty percent of the world's Christians, TheWord omits twenty percent of the Bible. That, for them, is a showstopping bug that demands immediate correction.

jonathon

CodingBeaver
February 15th, 2012, 04:35 PM
If one is going to migrate from their existing Biblical Software program to a new one, the more rational choice is to use something that runs as a native program on the platform that they are using.

One other point to consider is that for more than eighty percent of the world's Christians, TheWord omits twenty percent of the Bible. That, for them, is a showstopping bug that demands immediate correction.

jonathon

1. Agree totally. However, the UI and features of the current native Bible software on Linux are not as rich as those on Windows, such as e-Sword, theWord, Logos, etc, but as far as I know, none of above has a native Linux version.

2. I don't know how many versions of Bible theWord supports, but it is a very long list to me. If it misses 20%, that will surely be a showstopper. However, the community of theWord is growing, and I see more and more Bible versions are added, so if it is really missing some versions, I am sure it will catch up and provide even more. For example, I am using Chinese version, and I have never seen any other Bible software supports this many Chinese versions.

Besides the UI and rich features of theWord, a killer feature is to be able to install and runn theWord completely from a USB drive.

Above is just my personal experience and humble opinion after using several Bible software.

cortman
February 15th, 2012, 06:43 PM
Never used TheWord, I may have to check it out. Revealing somewhat my theological bent, is Whedon's NT commentary available for it? I have yet to find a commentary I like as well as Whedon's.
I'm a fan of eSword, and the latest version works tolerably well with Wine (search function is broken, though?). I have access to PC Study Bible discs (8-9 DVD's worth of resources!!!) and if I could install that on Wine, I'd be a happy man.
Is there any development going on for a NATIVE Bible application, of similar depth to eSword? As far as I've been able to tell, this is sadly lacking in GNU/Linux. There is Xiphos, as lisati mentioned, but I've found it to be rather unwieldy and poorly laid out. Wine is great, but a native application similar to eSword's functionality would be fantastic.

jonathonblake
February 16th, 2012, 02:28 AM
Is there any development going on for a NATIVE Bible application, of similar depth to eSword?

The Sword Project, in its various front ends, is the only thing that is close. In theory, it could become the most feature rich Bible Study program ever created.

jonathon

jonathonblake
February 16th, 2012, 02:34 AM
2. I don't know how many versions of Bible theWord supports, but it is a very long list to me. If it misses 20%, that will surely be a showstopper.

I am not talking about versions of the Bible. Rather, I am talking about the fact that it omits 20% of the text of the Bible.


jonathon

nixblog
February 16th, 2012, 05:36 AM
Is there any development going on for a NATIVE Bible application, of similar depth to eSword? As far as I've been able to tell, this is sadly lacking in GNU/Linux. There is Xiphos, as lisati mentioned, but I've found it to be rather unwieldy and poorly laid out. Wine is great, but a native application similar to eSword's functionality would be fantastic.

I quite like Xiphos and it suits most average peoples usage I guess. I would really like more open source (Linux based) apps that would compliment Xiphos, as I don't and would rather not use WINE given the choice.

CodingBeaver
February 16th, 2012, 03:23 PM
I am not talking about versions of the Bible. Rather, I am talking about the fact that it omits 20% of the text of the Bible.


jonathon

Oh, I didn't know that. Is it for all versions of Bible or just a particular Bible? Can you kindly show me an example? The Bible I am using does not seem to have this problem.

cortman
February 16th, 2012, 05:03 PM
Oh, I didn't know that. Is it for all versions of Bible or just a particular Bible? Can you kindly show me an example? The Bible I am using does not seem to have this problem.

I'm guessing he's referring to the Apocrypha.

forrestcupp
February 16th, 2012, 06:31 PM
If one is going to migrate from their existing Biblical Software program to a new one, the more rational choice is to use something that runs as a native program on the platform that they are using.This seems like a good idea, but there's no way you can convince me or anyone else with an unbiased outlook that anything from The Sword Project can come close to comparing to e-sword or theWord. Even if they did a lot of work to get the frontend UIs up to par, they would still be handicapped by the severe lack of modules available. Having a program run natively is not enough of a benefit to give up all of the Bible study resources that I can't get with the Sword Project.


One other point to consider is that for more than eighty percent of the world's Christians, TheWord omits twenty percent of the Bible. That, for them, is a showstopping bug that demands immediate correction.

jonathonBut this is actually a good point. While I don't personally believe that the Deuterocanonical are scripture, a lot of people do. It's kind of hard to believe that the developer of theWord is so stubborn about including Apocryphal books in the Bible view.

However, I did find a module for theWord called apocrypha (kjv).zip over here (http://www.4shared.com/dir/7906210/c141ff36/sharing.html#dir=8123758).

CodingBeaver
February 16th, 2012, 07:07 PM
There is also an official CPDV (Catholic Public Domain Version) Bible on the download page which contains Apocrypha. This version was published officially in 2010.

forrestcupp
February 16th, 2012, 07:30 PM
There is also an official CPDV (Catholic Public Domain Version) Bible on the download page which contains Apocrypha. This version was published officially in 2010.

Nice find. So I guess he compromised his stubbornness and was willing to include it in the Bible view.

jonathonblake
February 16th, 2012, 08:48 PM
Oh, I didn't know that. Is it for all versions of Bible or just a particular Bible? Can you kindly show me an example? The Bible I am using does not seem to have this problem.

Then do a cut and paste from Esther 9:19a
Be sure to leave out Esther 9:19 in this cut and paste.

Then do a cut and paste of Daniel 3:57.
Then do a cut and paste from Psalm 151:1.

jonathon

jonathonblake
February 16th, 2012, 09:20 PM
There is also an official CPDV (Catholic Public Domain Version) Bible on the download page which contains Apocrypha. This version was published officially in 2010.

a) That version omits roughly five percent of the text of the Bible;
b) The partion is does include is segregated out from the rest of the text.

jonathon

forrestcupp
February 16th, 2012, 09:33 PM
Then do a cut and paste from Esther 9:19a
Be sure to leave out Esther 9:19 in this cut and paste.

Then do a cut and paste of Daniel 3:57.
Then do a cut and paste from Psalm 151:1.

jonathon

Does the Sword Project or e-Sword have modules that include those texts? If so, what are they?

As for Psalm 151, how does text from the Greek Septuagint trump the earlier Masoretic text? But that doesn't really matter. I know that Eastern Orthodox believes the Septuagint to be divinely inspired, and I'm not here to debate your beliefs.

But I am interested in which modules in other software includes all of these missing scriptures.

jonathonblake
February 16th, 2012, 09:34 PM
but there's no way you can convince me or anyone else with an unbiased outlook that anything from The Sword Project can come close to comparing to e-sword or theWord.

As currently developed, TSP front ends to leave something to be desired. They are fixable. However, the current development teams are not focused on either UI functionality, nor advanced feature functionality.


would still be handicapped by the severe lack of modules available.
This is mainly a licensing issue. The stumbling block is how much people are willing to pay for the resources that can be utilized by TSP. If I thought that TSP users would be willing to pay an average of US$25.00 per resource, then I'd have a backlog of roughly 100K resources to convert.
Roughly 10K of those resources would have first appeared in print after 2000. (All of those resources would be legally distributable in TSP format.)

I do see a potential market niche, with forking an existing front end, bringing the UI up to scratch, then adding the functionality that is required to successfully do the 2009 SBL Bible Software Shootout.

jonathon

CodingBeaver
February 16th, 2012, 10:36 PM
Does the Sword Project or e-Sword have modules that include those texts? If so, what are they?

As for Psalm 151, how does text from the Greek Septuagint trump the earlier Masoretic text? But that doesn't really matter. I know that Eastern Orthodox believes the Septuagint to be divinely inspired, and I'm not here to debate your beliefs.

But I am interested in which modules in other software includes all of these missing scriptures.

Honestly, I would like to know it too.

jonathonblake
February 17th, 2012, 06:10 PM
Does the Sword Project or e-Sword have modules that include those texts? If so, what are they?

There are resources for both of those programs that include those texts.


As for Psalm 151, how does text from the Greek Septuagint trump the earlier Masoretic text?

The earlier Hebrew text. (The Masoratic text was created after the LXX.)


But I am interested in which modules in other software includes all of these missing scriptures.
Logos 3 had a fairly good resource collection that included commentaries, critical apparatus and the like of that content.

The texts themselves have been translated into about 200 languages.

jonathon

CodingBeaver
February 17th, 2012, 06:23 PM
There are resources for both of those programs that include those texts.
jonathon

With all due respect, Jonathon, please stop being so vague. It is not fair just saying "they are out there, go find them yourself", after we gave you the exact names of the modules. So what exact resources are you talking about?


Logos 3 had a fairly good resource collection that included commentaries, critical apparatus and the like of that content.

The texts themselves have been translated into about 200 languages.

Now you are talking about commercial software, what is your point?

jonathonblake
February 18th, 2012, 03:29 AM
It is not fair just saying "they are out there, go find them yourself", after we gave you the exact names of the modules.

The resource for TheWord that was listed omits five percent of the text of the Bible. Furthermore, it is split into two resources that require two different components to be opened.


So what exact resources are you talking about?

I don't have a list of currently available resources for either e-Sword, or TSP, that include that content:

The last list of TSP resources I saw, were in Greek, or Eastern European languages. There was one English language resource, but I've forgotten whcih translation it was.
The last list of e-Sword resources included RSVA, KJVA, LXX/TR, and several others in Eastern European languages;



Now you are talking about commercial software, what is your point?

My impression was that you wanted examples of other software that included resources that contain the complete Bible.

jonathon

Didaktikon
February 18th, 2012, 04:28 AM
G'day, Jonathon.

I'd like to begin by stating that I think you've been intentionally disingenuous in your comments about 'The Word' software [-X

Obviously you belong to that part of the Church which accepts a canon comprising of both Protocanonical and Deuterocanonical books; your quip about Psalms 151 indicates one of the autocephalic Orthodox groups. Assuming this, (1) are you aware that there isn't universal agreement about the boundaries of the biblical canon intra Orthodoxy? (2) What does this suggest about the making of facile claims such as the one that started this brouhaha? And given that your disagreement with 'The Word' is clearly philosophically/ideologically based, (3) why have you attempted to paint the software as being unintentionally 'buggy' rather than intentionally Protestant?

'The Word' is, IMHO, a superior non-commercial piece of exegetical software. Different demographics will prefer different products/platforms to be sure; however, each should be assessed on its own merits, based largely on its intended use. It simply won't do to complain that an 'apple' isn't an 'orange' (oblique pun intended)

By all means continue to promote: (a) what you believe to be the biblical canon, and (b) products that reflect and support the same. But please, do try to be a little more transparent and gracious in your comments when they touch on products that don't share your particular ideological POV.

God bless,

Ian

jonathonblake
February 18th, 2012, 06:35 PM
(1) are you aware that there isn't universal agreement about the boundaries of the biblical canon intra Orthodoxy?

I'm fully aware that the different Orthodox groups have different canons.


with 'The Word' is clearly philosophically/ideologically based,

A tool that claims to "conform to mainstream Christian doctrines", and omits the text of the Bible is, using its own criteria, buggy.

jonathon

danmrg
February 18th, 2012, 10:54 PM
A tool that claims to "conform to mainstream Christian doctrines", and omits the text of the Bible is, using its own criteria, buggy.

jonathon,
you are either deliberately lying or you are blissfully ignorant. Judging from the way you are attempting to undermine The Word software in your previous posts, I assume that the first holds.

So, to make things short:
1. Here is a link to the Revised English Bible with the Apocrypha (http://www.theword.net/index.php?purchase-item&pid=34&l=english) with 100% of the Bible text, which by the way happens to be a premium module. According to your definition of 'what the Bible is', The Word does contain 100% of the Bible text, so it's not buggy -end of discussion.
2. Here is a list of 80+ Bibles (http://www.theword.net/index.php?downloads.modules&l=english) (didn't really count, may be more); each one of these contains 100% of the Bible text of its respective publisher (assuming no publishing errors exist of course). For example, here is a link to the HCSB Bible (http://www.theword.net/bin/get.php/hcsb.ontx.exe) (which by the way is free for The Word but for no other software i know of) that contains 100% of the HCSB Bible. If you believe that the HCSB translation does not contain 100% of the text of the Bible, then you should take your argument to the HCSB publishers. Of course you should do the same if you think that the REB Bible does not contain 100% the text of the 'real' Bible, or what you define the 'real' Bible to be.
Have you tried contacting the publishers of the ESV or NIV Bibles to tell them that their translations are buggy? Or their apps? (Glo maybe?)

I also noticed the Good News Translation in Today's English Version with Apocrypha (http://www.theword.net/index.php?purchase-item&pid=42&l=english) and a Slovak translation that includes deuterocanonicals in the official modules list for The Word... did you really look before you post?
Hint: google for "kjv apocrypha twm" to find more modules with apocrypha for The Word.



omits the text of the Bible

jonathon, this is a lie to start with (proven above), and not admitting that the validity of this assumption could only stand as a philosophical statement makes it even worse.

Dan

Didaktikon
February 18th, 2012, 11:38 PM
G'day, Jonathon.

I'm fully aware that the different Orthodox groups have different canons.

This admission demonstrates that you were being disingenuous (even dishonest) in your previous statements about 'The Word' software.

The fact of the differing canonical lists in Orthodoxy muzzles your 'percentage-based' claim. Why? Well, any person from this-or-that group could make a pejorative statement about any other group: "your Orthodox communion adds 5% to the Word of God". Or, "your Orthodox communion lacks 12% of the Word of God". There are no controls because there is no consensus.

Further, like Orthodoxy itself the LXX isn't a 'monolithic' entity. Various Septuagintal mss contain differing lists of books, and within the range of mss we find different readings of the same books. In light of this your previous statement rings rather hollow.

A tool that claims to "conform to mainstream Christian doctrines", and omits the text of the Bible is, using its own criteria, buggy.

Let me point out to you, again, 'The Word' software was written from a Protestant perspective. When judged against this criterion, it doesn't omit Scriptural texts given that the Protestant Old Testament doesn't include the Deuterocanonical writings. And as others have pointed out to you, 'The Word' does include modules incorporating and presenting the broader canon as understood by both Eastern and Western Orthodoxy. Your position on what constitutes Christian Scripture, in common with what is likely to be your position on what constitutes "mainstream Christian doctrine", is naught but a poor example of argumentum ad antiquitatem. Prove the premise before assuming the outcome.

To close, it would appear that the only things 'buggy' at the moment are: (1) your reasoning, and (2) your honesty.

Ian

forrestcupp
February 19th, 2012, 01:18 PM
Jonathon has been a huge support and blessing to the e-Sword community for a very long time. It's only natural for him to be partial and emotionally attached to e-Sword. It's kind of like the thread a while back when he was talking about e-Sword and the developer of Xiphos was arguing about how e-Sword isn't as good as the native Xiphos. Obviously, that's not the case, but when you invest so much of your time into something, you're going to be attached to it and stick up for it.

I'll admit that if you're an Orthodox Christian, theWord is probably not your best choice. But if you're a protestant, it's pretty amazing. That's not to say that e-Sword isn't great, too. But for my needs, I'm finding that theSword runs a lot smoother in Wine than e-Sword, and I'm really enjoying it.

jonathonblake
February 19th, 2012, 01:59 PM
The fact of the differing canonical lists in Orthodoxy muzzles your 'percentage-based' claim.

Not really. Go by the Oxford Annotted Bible list. That list omits 3 Corinthians, EpLao, and a dozen or so books from The Ethiopiac Canon of 81 (Broader Canon).


When judged against this criterion, it doesn't omit Scriptural texts given that the Protestant Old Testament [doesn't include the Deuterocanonical writings.

The ironical thing here is that those groups within Protestant Christianity that are liturgical, do include Deuterocanonical material in the lectionary.


And as others have pointed out to you, 'The Word' does include modules incorporating and presenting the broader canon as understood by both Eastern and Western Orthodoxy.

Resources that omit some of the content that they purport to contain.

jonathon

not found
February 19th, 2012, 02:14 PM
This forum is for support about the UCE (and Christian related software that can run on Ubuntu and or UCE).

This forum is not for this debate.

Thanks for the resource. I will myself be looking into TheWord.

Thread closed.


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