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al108
December 2nd, 2011, 06:17 AM
Initially hate for Unity brought me to this forum, but looking at how many people are in the same boat as me is very painful. A few things I would want to say about my recent experience with Ubuntu.

1. Just because someone was using Ubuntu for a while doesn't mean they know an easy way to switch to a different DE (or thought about it), which would probably solve their problems and make them happy again.

2. Many people are frustrated and after struggling with Unity feel betrayed by Ubuntu. So saying things like "whatever works for you", "to each it's own" and so on doesn't really help. It really shows that nobody cares or worse...

3. It would be great to see more info (perhaps stickied and perhaps not only in this forum) on how to try different DEs. Now I know it's not a secret, but if it's on the top of the page maybe at least some of us haters will stop for a moment and try something else first before we start ranting and complaining about Unity/Ubuntu/Canonical or leaving Ubuntu or Linux.

4. Bringing new people on board is important, but just as important keeping experienced users happy and keeping everybody together. I wish we had more guidance on this from Ubuntu leaders but here we are looking for support and understanding in the community.

5. Thanks to threads like "Unity mega discussion" there is some information available to help with aggravation from Unity, but it's hard to keep cool head when you're already pissed off. I have found some answers there (thanks s.fox (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=611656) , cariboo907 (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=77104) and others) but looking at the first page it seems like the thread is more designed for the discussion on how to improve Unity not really to discuss it. That is fine and very good for Unity, but what about people who hate it?

6. This is a funny one - We should have a "Unity Mega Hate Mega Discussion" at the top of the page!:D

Anyway, to reiterate again. It would be nice to have more info for people unhappy with Unity on how to switch to a different DE and an explanation on the whole Unity thing. It also would be nice to see that community cares about people even if they hate Unity. Knowing Mark I really doubt he will back down and change direction away from Unity no matter what, but it doesn't mean we can't find something *buntu that works for us or does it?

Thanks
Alex

To those who see no hope with Unity -
1. Don't get discouraged - trying a different Desktop Environment could solve all of your problmes. It could be as easy as sudo apt-get install *buntu-desktop (xubuntu, kubuntu, lubuntu...) log out and chose new look when you login!
2. Unity is not set in stone and many changes will come; and if you can communicate your needs clearly developers will listen. The idea of Unity is to be convenient for most users including power users. Talk to developers at IRC (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList)or mailing lists (https://lists.ubuntu.com/)

bluexrider
December 2nd, 2011, 06:27 AM
I would say its pretty good insight as to some, but not all who use Ubuntu with Unity. Those who don't care for it DO need help finding something else. It would be a better support forum than to give the "whatever works" attitude.

Honest, straight forward answers to a question "how do I remove unity" is all that is necessary. It seems "try this or try that" is the pat answer. ITS NOT!

Good post, thanks for your thoughts Alex.

Happy *buntu

mikewhatever
December 2nd, 2011, 07:04 AM
I am afraid that hating a DE or feeling betrayed by it is preposterously absurd all by itself, but it's even more absurd when you get it free of charge, and when you have many other choices. Whatever happened to gratitude??? How about a warm thank you for the people who make it all happen??? Is hate really all you have???

Perhaps you should start a dedicated Unity Hate forum, where haters can gather and have hate sessions, ... kind of like in 1984.

buntudawg
December 2nd, 2011, 07:27 AM
I am afraid that hating a DE or feeling betrayed by it is preposterously absurd all by itself, but it's even more absurd when you get it free of charge, and when you have many other choices. Whatever happened to gratitude??? How about a warm thank you for the people who make it all happen??? Is hate really all you have???

Perhaps you should start a dedicated Unity Hate forum, where haters can gather and have hate sessions, ... kind of like in 1984.


Yes. Totally agree. I have tried to ignore all the "I hate unity" "unity is cr*p" threads, however it has bugged me to the point I must throw in my 2 bits as every day it keeps appearing.

I have been using, loving and grateful for Ubuntu and other Linux distros since DD 6.04 and have generally looked forward to, and enjoyed, the new releases. Personally at first I wasn't too fond of the unity interface either, but as time has passed I have grown accustomed to it and actually grown to like it (having an old system to compare it to Gnome 2 on helps to reveal its benefits).

People like to think they're cutting edge but really we are all creatures of habit, and change disturbs us. I think the overall problem can be summed up by the quote:

"If you want to make enemies, try to change something" - Woodrow T Wilson.

Vent over.

cariboo907
December 2nd, 2011, 07:47 AM
Moved to the Cafe, as this isn't a testimonial or an experience.

I have to partially agree with mikewhatever, how can you hate a desktop environment, when it never stole your lunch money, or drank all your beer. I can see disliking it because you don't understand how it works, or disliking it because something doesn't work the way you think it should.

I also agree with what al108, that we do need to help those that dislike Unity. Many users don't realize that there is more to Ubuntu than Unity. The last time I looked, there are close to 60,000 packages in the repositories, many of them to do with other desktop environments. There is Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Edubuntu and Kubnuntu that are only a couple of clicks away, as well as Gnome shell and Gnome classic. I personally have created a link in many posts to kansasnoob's Gnome classic (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1886799&highlight=gnome+classic) thread in Desktop Environments.

Maybe instead of saying that if you don't like Unity, use what works for you, we should help those that dislike Unity to install a different Desktop Environment. Here a few more links that they may find useful:


Xubuntu (http://www.xubuntu.org/)
Lubuntu (http://lubuntu.net/)
Edubuntu (http://www.edubuntu.org/)
Kubuntu (http://www.kubuntu.org/)
Gnome-shell (http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell)

kansasnoob
December 2nd, 2011, 08:03 AM
Moved to the Cafe, as this isn't a testimonial or an experience.

I have to partially agree with mikewhatever, how can you hate a desktop environment, when it never stole your lunch money, or drank all your beer. I can see disliking it because you don't understand how it works, or disliking it because something doesn't work the way you think it should.

I also agree with what al108, that we do need to help those that dislike Unity. Many users don't realize that there is more to Ubuntu than Unity. The last time I looked, there are close to 60,000 packages in the repositories, many of them to do with other desktop environments. There is Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Edubuntu and Kubnuntu that are only a couple of clicks away, as well as Gnome shell and Gnome classic. I personally have created a link in many posts to kansasnoob's Gnome classic (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1886799&highlight=gnome+classic) thread in Desktop Environments.

Maybe instead of saying that if you don't like Unity, use what works for you, we should help those that dislike Unity to install a different Desktop Environment. Here a few more links that they may find useful:


Xubuntu (http://www.xubuntu.org/)
Lubuntu (http://lubuntu.net/)
Edubuntu (http://www.edubuntu.org/)
Kubuntu (http://www.kubuntu.org/)
Gnome-shell (http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell)


+1!

And I can now make Ubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric) almost indistinguishable from Gnome 2:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1886799

Theming still needs a tiny bit of improvement but most of the time I forget I'm using Gnome 3 :)

But I've now come to like Unity so well on my 18.5" wide-screen monitor, and Lubuntu on my 22" wide-screen monitor, that I'm now a bit torn over which to use :D

Choices, choices .................... ;)

RichardLinx
December 2nd, 2011, 09:02 AM
I am afraid that hating a DE or feeling betrayed by it is preposterously absurd all by itself, but it's even more absurd when you get it free of charge, and when you have many other choices. Whatever happened to gratitude??? How about a warm thank you for the people who make it all happen??? Is hate really all you have???

Perhaps you should start a dedicated Unity Hate forum, where haters can gather and have hate sessions, ... kind of like in 1984.
When someone say they "hate" something like a DE, I don't think they mean it in the same sense as hating a person but more like hating a flavour of Ice-cream. It's easier (And just used in general terms more often) to say I hate <insert object of dislike>.

I hate Unity. i.e. I'm not a big fan of the Unity desktop environment; I dislike it for various reasons I won't state here.

That's what the OP was saying. Why should he display open gratitude for something that was given to him for free? Hitler was given to the world for free, too. Maybe I'll just go back in time and give him a big kiss because he was "free". Wake up, man! My god, what you're saying is astonishingly out of context in relation to the initial statement by the OP.

Thank the people who made it happen? Sure! "Hey, thanks for making something I don't even like. You did your best though, so great. Good job, you!"

The people that made Unity were paid, they don't need our thanks, even if we feel they deserve it. There thanks is in a pay check - which I'm sure they prefer. I know I would.

Is hate really all he has? Oh my, he's just beaming with hate, isn't he!

CryptAck
December 2nd, 2011, 09:56 AM
2. Many people are frustrated and after struggling with Unity feel betrayed by Ubuntu. So saying things like "whatever works for you", "to each it's own" and so on doesn't really help. It really shows that nobody cares or worse...


I disagree; I do care that users are frustrated. When I can offer help to resolve their frustration, I put forth effort in outlying their choices.

Also, there is a very distinct difference in users coming here and asking respectful questions about the change (usually in attempt to finding ways to switch back to their DE of choice) and outright irrational slander because the change--which has been publicly discussed for some time--betrayed them in some way.



3. It would be great to see more info (perhaps stickied and perhaps not only in this forum) on how to try different DEs. Now I know it's not a secret, but if it's on the top of the page maybe at least some of us haters will stop for a moment and try something else first before we start ranting and complaining about Unity/Ubuntu/Canonical or leaving Ubuntu or Linux.


A simple Google search can provide a lot of resources to reverting back. Additionally, the change was aimed at Unifying the interface across multiple platforms for newer, less experienced, users. From what I can tell most inexperienced Ubuntu users (and even a lot of experienced ones) find Unity to quite wonderful. My observations have been that experienced Linux (not just Ubuntu) users do not like the change, and for the majority of these disgruntled experienced users, they know how to revert back already.



4. Bringing new people on board is important, but just as important keeping experienced users happy and keeping everybody together. I wish we had more guidance on this from Ubuntu leaders but here we are looking for support and understanding in the community.


I agree completely on the importance of keeping everyone happy. I do propose a question though: if experienced users are mostly impacted, and a good majority of those users know how to install the GNOME Desktop after installation, why does the default--aimed at new users that do not know how to change--even matter?


For the record, I do not personally find Unity to be the "best" desktop manager...for me. Nevertheless, I understand Ubuntu's direction, reasons for that direction, and I personally believe that if free software wants to continue to be relevant to the consumer and not just "server" markets, moves such as Unity are a necessity.

Could the Ubuntu team have given us a better rationale for their Unity switch earlier on, sure I think they could have. That might have even relived some of the tension. Nevertheless though, we are where we are now and the best we can do is move forward from here and give users choice.

Choice; what Free Software (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) has been about since day one.

3rdalbum
December 2nd, 2011, 10:10 AM
Could the Ubuntu team have given us a better rationale for their Unity switch earlier on, sure I think they could have. That might have even relived some of the tension.

You raise some good points in your post. However, a lot of people simply haven't listened to anything regarding Unity. Heck, most of the rants I hear accuse Ubuntu of having "removed the ability to theme", despite it being something that upstream Gnome did (and where Ubuntu patched Gnome to make it a little easier to apply themes!).

People just don't listen to Canonical when they talk.

CryptAck
December 2nd, 2011, 10:19 AM
You raise some good points in your post. However, a lot of people simply haven't listened to anything regarding Unity. Heck, most of the rants I hear accuse Ubuntu of having "removed the ability to theme", despite it being something that upstream Gnome did (and where Ubuntu patched Gnome to make it a little easier to apply themes!).

People just don't listen to Canonical when they talk.

Yes, I completely agree. I remember these same discussions under Red Hat 8.0 in 2002 (10 years ago!) when Red Hat decided to use Bluecurve, which I believe at the time was based off the new GNOME 2 Desktop...whoooa!

Anyways, a lot of users were annoyed and angry -- "But it's not stable!", "Red Hat doesn't care about the community!", etc.

Now a lot of these same experienced users are probably switching to Fedora from Ubuntu because of Unity.

History will always repeat itself, but sometimes the minor details change.

CryptAck
December 2nd, 2011, 10:23 AM
In regards to my last posting, here is an old news article about RH 8.0

http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/4460/1

mikewhatever
December 2nd, 2011, 10:40 AM
You raise some good points in your post. However, a lot of people simply haven't listened to anything regarding Unity. Heck, most of the rants I hear accuse Ubuntu of having "removed the ability to theme", despite it being something that upstream Gnome did (and where Ubuntu patched Gnome to make it a little easier to apply themes!).

People just don't listen to Canonical when they talk.

Haters never do. Why listen when they are here to hate.



When someone say they "hate" something like a DE, I don't think they mean it in the same sense as hating a person but more like hating a flavour of Ice-cream. It's easier (And just used in general terms more often) to say I hate <insert object of dislike>.

I hate Unity. i.e. I'm not a big fan of the Unity desktop environment; I dislike it for various reasons I won't state here.

That's what the OP was saying. Why should he display open gratitude for something that was given to him for free? Hitler was given to the world for free, too. Maybe I'll just go back in time and give him a big kiss because he was "free". Wake up, man! My god, what you're saying is astonishingly out of context in relation to the initial statement by the OP.

Thank the people who made it happen? Sure! "Hey, thanks for making something I don't even like. You did your best though, so great. Good job, you!"

The people that made Unity were paid, they don't need our thanks, even if we feel they deserve it. There thanks is in a pay check - which I'm sure they prefer. I know I would.

Is hate really all he has? Oh my, he's just beaming with hate, isn't he!

Priceless! :rolleyes:

OrangeCrate
December 2nd, 2011, 11:24 AM
When it comes to computer stuff, I came to the conclusion long ago, that those who "hate" things the most, are just those people who can't face up to the fact, that whatever they "hate", is smarter than they are.

keithpeter
December 2nd, 2011, 11:49 AM
Hello All

I think part of the issue was the way in which Unity appeared. My experience with supporting people using IT systems in large organisations is that radical change needs support in the form of documentation and walk throughs.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1889006

I've produced what I hope is a coherent tutorial about Unity 2d for less confident users of computers. Of course, producing this tutorial lead me to use and focus on Unity which helped my own understanding of the system.

Perhaps we need a guide for people who are confident with technology? Perhaps such a guide could explain the model of computer use that Unity embodies?

I'm also going to get involved with the documentation team, starting with 'bug' fixing the help files, which it appears that anyone can do.

OrangeCrate
December 2nd, 2011, 01:30 PM
When someone say they "hate" something like a DE, I don't think they mean it in the same sense as hating a person but more like hating a flavour of Ice-cream. It's easier (And just used in general terms more often) to say I hate <insert object of dislike>.

I hate Unity. i.e. I'm not a big fan of the Unity desktop environment; I dislike it for various reasons I won't state here.

That's what the OP was saying. Why should he display open gratitude for something that was given to him for free? Hitler was given to the world for free, too. Maybe I'll just go back in time and give him a big kiss because he was "free". Wake up, man! My god, what you're saying is astonishingly out of context in relation to the initial statement by the OP.

Thank the people who made it happen? Sure! "Hey, thanks for making something I don't even like. You did your best though, so great. Good job, you!"

The people that made Unity were paid, they don't need our thanks, even if we feel they deserve it. There thanks is in a pay check - which I'm sure they prefer. I know I would.

Is hate really all he has? Oh my, he's just beaming with hate, isn't he!


Godwin's Law


As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

The reference to Hitler showing up in the first page of a thread, must be some kind of record.

:)

Scott Baker
December 2nd, 2011, 05:09 PM
Howdy all. I don't think that people truly hate Unity as much as they hate the idea of change. That's what Unity represents, and face it, people by their nature are resistant to change. That being said, I'm an Ubuntoid since the days of Fiesty. Love it, but always had some issues that had to be dealt with, but they have always been relatively easy to correct. I use 11.04 because I can learn to use Unity on my terms, without having to fully commit (as in 11.10) and learn as I go. Me, well Unity is still a bit confusing, but I am catching on, so that by the time 12.04 shows up, I should be ready for a full transition to Unity.
(And a HUGE THANK YOU to ALL of the people that continue to contribute the development of ALL of the Linux distros. Without the time and care that you devote to these projects, we'd all be stuck with big box, bellybutton software...UGGGHH!!! =D>)

al108
December 3rd, 2011, 02:05 AM
Awesome, thanks everybody for sharing your thoughts.

My main point was that more information whether it's a guide, or a sticky would help prevent many people from getting to the point of real hate. Google is fine but my first choice would be Ubuntu web and Ubuntu forums. I don't want to discover why and what Unity is from a wikipedia article or some google search. I want to see it up front on Ubuntu web and forums. And frankly, while Unity is not perfect yet there should be more info on how to switch to a different DE with a simple apt-get install *buntu-desktop command.

There's another simple reality - Satisfied Customers Tell Three Friends, Angry Customers Tell 3,000...

Again, instead of trying to shut the haters up get them on board. From Mark S. keynote address in FL recently "...what we want to do is that our primary desktop is both easy to use, beautiful and exciting for power users...that's a key goal for as in the new cycle (12.04)..."

Also if we actually listen to the points that people don't like about Unity most of them are probably valid points and should be noted and used for improvement of Unity.

Thanks
Alex

al108
December 3rd, 2011, 02:16 AM
Godwin's Law



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

The reference to Hitler showing up in the first page of a thread, must be some kind of record.

:)
:lolflag:

What it actually shows that there's lack of communication and care about people who's needs are a little more then what Unity can provide. Why tell people how wonderful and perfect Unity is when it's not at least not yet.

al108
December 3rd, 2011, 02:21 AM
Hello All

I think part of the issue was the way in which Unity appeared. My experience with supporting people using IT systems in large organisations is that radical change needs support in the form of documentation and walk throughs.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1889006

I've produced what I hope is a coherent tutorial about Unity 2d for less confident users of computers. Of course, producing this tutorial lead me to use and focus on Unity which helped my own understanding of the system.

Perhaps we need a guide for people who are confident with technology? Perhaps such a guide could explain the model of computer use that Unity embodies?

I'm also going to get involved with the documentation team, starting with 'bug' fixing the help files, which it appears that anyone can do.

Thanks a bunch. That's what I'm talking about!

al108
December 3rd, 2011, 02:26 AM
When it comes to computer stuff, I came to the conclusion long ago, that those who "hate" things the most, are just those people who can't face up to the fact, that whatever they "hate", is smarter than they are.

It's not about who is smarter, really. :) And that's what Unity is supposed to address - it should be nice and easy to use even for people who aren't that smart.

al108
December 3rd, 2011, 02:36 AM
I am afraid that hating a DE or feeling betrayed by it is preposterously absurd all by itself, but it's even more absurd when you get it free of charge, and when you have many other choices. Whatever happened to gratitude??? How about a warm thank you for the people who make it all happen??? Is hate really all you have???

Perhaps you should start a dedicated Unity Hate forum, where haters can gather and have hate sessions, ... kind of like in 1984.
:D:D

I was maiking a joke when I suggested a Mega Hate Mega Thread. Forum would be even better though:D. You know, if people could express their anger in that forum maybe they'd also cool off a little and come up with something positive or maybe they could find support there and figure out that they don't have to use Unity and can easily switch to a different DE and be happy again.

mikewhatever
December 3rd, 2011, 02:55 AM
Awesome, thanks everybody for sharing your thoughts.

My main point was that more information whether it's a guide, or a sticky would help prevent many people from getting to the point of real hate. Google is fine but my first choice would be Ubuntu web and Ubuntu forums. I don't want to discover why and what Unity is from a wikipedia article or some google search. I want to see it up front on Ubuntu web and forums. And frankly, while Unity is not perfect yet there should be more info on how to switch to a different DE with a simple apt-get install *buntu-desktop command.


Perhaps instead of telling the community what to do, you should sit down and write at least some of the documentation and tutorials you'd like to see around. It strikes me as arrogant and egocentric, when you ask others to do things for you, and offer no help.
...and a hater asking for empathy is just hilarious.


There's another simple reality - Satisfied Customers Tell Three Friends, Angry Customers Tell 3,000...

Again, instead of trying to shut the haters up get them on board. From Mark S. keynote address in FL recently "...what we want to do is that our primary desktop is both easy to use, beautiful and exciting for power users...that's a key goal for as in the new cycle (12.04)..."


Trying to satisfy everyone is a futile effort, especially trying to appease the haters.
Please don't twist the meaning of what was said. Haters != power users, they are just haters.


Also if we actually listen to the points that people don't like about Unity most of them are probably valid points and should be noted and used for improvement of Unity.

Thanks
Alex

Who's we? Please don't count me and other grateful users among your kind.
Once again, haters are not here to provide valid points or improvements, they are here to hate.

RichardLinx
December 3rd, 2011, 02:56 AM
Priceless! :rolleyes:
Oh joy, a witty one word response. How original. If the aim was to be passively condescending you've failed miserably.


Godwin's Law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

The reference to Hitler showing up in the first page of a thread, must be some kind of record.

:)
I didn't see a need to drag things out when I could do it in one go with a Hitler comparison. It's the quickest "hate" thought that came to mind. I guess I could have made a comparison with something else, it didn't necessarily have to be a person.

The point is, that he failed to see the initial point.


When someone say they "hate" something like a DE, I don't think they mean it in the same sense as hating a person but more like hating a flavour of Ice-cream. It's easier (And just used in general terms more often) to say I hate <insert object of dislike>.

I hate Unity. i.e. I'm not a big fan of the Unity desktop environment; I dislike it for various reasons I won't state here.

That's what the OP was saying. Why should he display open gratitude for something that was given to him for free? Wake up, man! My god, what you're saying is astonishingly out of context in relation to the initial statement by the OP.

Thank the people who made it happen? Sure! "Hey, thanks for making something I don't even like. You did your best though, so great. Good job, you!"

The people that made Unity were paid, they don't need our thanks, even if we feel they deserve it. There thanks is in a pay check - which I'm sure they prefer. I know I would.

Is hate really all he has? Oh my, he's just beaming with hate, isn't he!

There we go, I make the exact same point without a Hitler reference to satisfy your deep knowledge of the Internet and all associated memes.

inobe
December 3rd, 2011, 03:02 AM
kinda have to know what a de is first, quite honestly, that's not the crowd that was gathered!

education, education, etc..........

direct them to customization howto articles, in fact i have seen admins here with these articles in their sigs, though thats not good enough when they should be stuck at the top in big bold letters:P

RichardLinx
December 3rd, 2011, 03:04 AM
Perhaps instead of telling the community what to do, you should sit down and write at least some of the documentation and tutorials you'd like to see around. It strikes me as arrogant and egocentric, when you ask others to do things for you, and offer no help.
When did he tell the community what to do? As far as I can tell, he just expressed his dislike ("hate") for Unity. The only thing I see as far as telling people what to do is concerned is you trying to guilt trip him into writing documentation he doesn't want to. How kind of you to point out how arrogant he is.


...and a hater asking for empathy is just hilarious.
And you even went so far as to label him a "hater". My, the Ubuntu "community" is just lovely!


Trying to satisfy everyone is a futile effort, especially trying to appease the haters.
Please don't twist the meaning of what was said. Haters != power users, they are just haters.
Haters, haters, haters! It seems the majority of people who don't like the Unity interface are nothing but treacherous haters. They don't deserve to have their voices heard, even if they've been using Ubuntu since its inception. No, they can just shut up and suck it up, or better yet, just leave!


Who's we? Please don't count me and other grateful users among your kind.
Once again, haters are not here to provide valid points or improvements, they are here to hate.
Who's we? Evidently al108 and I aren't part of your private Ubuntu fan club, and despite having used Ubuntu for many years, we're obviously not here to provide valid points that may lead to improvements because we just hate Ubuntu so much.

Give me a break. Stop with the glorified Ubuntu love. It's embarrassing, and a little distasteful.

inobe
December 3rd, 2011, 03:11 AM
customize unity

stick it up there somewhere, if they think it's too hard, or they are faced with limitations, they will go away without even knowing it was possible to customize a de to their liking!

cariboo907
December 3rd, 2011, 03:16 AM
From what I can see, is that most of the people that say they hate Unity, are just consumers of the distribution, they use a free operating system, without giving anything back, and they expect that all their complaints should be solved without doing anything themselves. The majority of people that say they hate Unity, really don't say what it is they hate about it, we are always open to constructive criticism, and welcome it.

Tell us what you hate about it, and how it can be improved, and we may create a digest and submit it to the developers.

inobe
December 3rd, 2011, 03:45 AM
the haters per say will state this in the howto article, by simply modifying their systems based on an article.

it can be followed easily by the community as a tool.

example; howto remove unity launcher, many may like this howto, and then the devs can add a right click remove functionality.


they use a free operating system, without giving anything back, and they expect that all their complaints should be solved without doing anything themselves.

unfortunately, this is a large amount of the community.

we are talking about those that shouldn't have to lift a finger because they paid for a license with a previous os and didn't even know, we are talking about folks that will try to defrag a hard drive because it's 1% fragmented, were talking about folks running around with infected systems and don't know why, not even mentioning the fact, they could care less of what a de is :)

edit; trying to give examples, please bare with me.

RichardLinx
December 3rd, 2011, 04:22 AM
Tell us what you hate about it, and how it can be improved, and we may create a digest and submit it to the developers.

I don't particularly hate it. I just think it's lacking in comparison to other options that are available. I didn't join this thread to jump on the Unity hate bandwagon. I've actually (surprisingly) pretty much steered clear of it all. I didn't like it after giving it about a month of use around 11.04, and I knew after three days of use with 11.10 that it's just not for me.

But if you're seriously unaware of why people don't like it:
http://amplicate.com/hate/unity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BKiC3geDCc

That should sum up my reasons (and then some) quite nicely.

3Miro
December 3rd, 2011, 04:38 AM
It would be good if promote psychocats more:

http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/index.php

They give you an easy way to select any DE. If you don't like the default, try the others and keep what you like.

cariboo907
December 3rd, 2011, 05:01 AM
I don't particularly hate it. I just think it's lacking in comparison to other options that are available. I didn't join this thread to jump on the Unity hate bandwagon. I've actually (surprisingly) pretty much steered clear of it all. I didn't like it after giving it about a month of use around 11.04, and I knew after three days of use with 11.10 that it's just not for me.

But if you're seriously unaware of why people don't like it:
http://amplicate.com/hate/unity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BKiC3geDCc

That should sum up my reasons (and then some) quite nicely.

I checked your first link, the first 4 posts said it buggy and ugly, and one that said he was forced to change distributions because he forced to use the default desktop, I stopped reading the comments after that.

I couldn't sit through the whole youtube video because of the way the presenter was moving the mouse around so much, it detracted from what he was trying to show us, and the swearing didn't help either. The whole thing made the presenter look like he really didn't know what he was talking about. Admittedly the video would have put anyone off of Unity, so I guess the presenter accomplished what he wanted.

That's the big problem with most of the people that dislike Unity, they complain, but they never give us reasons why. other than it's ugly, or buggy.

Unity does have problems, but working with the developers instead of just whining and complaining is going to do a lot more to make it better.

RichardLinx
December 3rd, 2011, 05:32 AM
The presenter was likely an end user. I don't really blame him if he doesn't know some technical terms or that there are a multitude of tweaks and bug-fixes available, but he got the main points down and summarized my thoughts exactly, so I commend him for that. It's why I linked the video.

I wasn't really bothered by the swearing since it wasn't overly vulgar or in bad taste, merely an expression of frustration. I'm also simply used to swearing in the English language and every day life, conversations and media. But that's irrelevant.

If you can't sit through one fifteen minute video that quite clearly shows what's generally disliked about Unity, then I think we've just found the real problem. :(

al108
December 3rd, 2011, 06:02 AM
I'm glad to see that most ppl got the idea. I made the post to share the experience I had with ppl who can relate. I've also noticed that there was much negativity coming from those who "like" Unity. Yes most users are "consumers" of the distro and will never contribute to the development but may help a newb or two here on forums. After all goal of Ubuntu is to be user friendly for everybody. Ppl will get highly emotional (hate) when something doesn't work anymore and they can't get a clear answer. Imagine somebdy is trying to install Ubuntu on their laptop and it just doesn't work. He(she) comes to the forum and says Ubuntu supposed to just work and it doesn't. A promise was made to them - it'll work, but it doesn't. A couple of ppl reply - dude, just google it,... do I need to continue? How does that sound now? They may not know what's wrong, they just know it doesn't work; they get frustrated after sime time and start hating...

In any case I'm very grateful to those who helped me before even though they never thought I was going to pay them back in any way or form. I needed help and they helped. Just like that. Thank you again.

deonis
December 3rd, 2011, 06:19 AM
My main problem is hating thing does not actually create any result. My question, however, is how do we influence the development of Unity?

From what I read the future of Unity is not going to be bright. Where do we go to complain ? Enforcing on a user some new and useless features aren't gonna bring any good.

I wish that developers would work with the users to improve things ..... I would suggest to create a pool where will be listed a bunch of options which people potentially would like to see developed in unity and let forum people to vote for that. But the question still remains, will the developer listen to the users...?

Any Ubuntu developer here ?

al108
December 3rd, 2011, 06:27 AM
Waa, Waa, Waa! Ubuntu is what it is. I can change and so can everyone else. I have not liked the change but when it is free I have no place to complain. What Canonical does and whether I choose to use it in it's current release, is another choice that I can make. There is still freedom. Don't complain, because you have not lost any money over it. Remember, it is free. There are other DE's. Your time spent on figuring out the changes, is not forced on you. If you don't like it, leave it. These forums are for Ubuntu and if what Canonical chooses to make a change with and you do not like, then switch and stop whining. If the derivatives offer something more consistent with what you are used to, and, as has already been stated, use what you like. Just stop complaining and whining. You act as if you are entitled to have it your way, but that is the mentality of of this generation and, too often, of the proceeding generation.

Then don't complain about somebody else complaining. Did you lose any money over it? Wait - complaining is free too:D Maybe it's you who needs to switch. People have just as much right to complain as to be happy.... I'm not trying to attack you personally, just trying to make a point. As I've stated before I see a lot of negativity from ppl who support "unity" instead of being a little more understanding. Negative attitude isn't going to help Ubuntu, the community or Canonical. If you support any of the above why push ppl away?

wolfen69
December 3rd, 2011, 06:32 AM
What Canonical does and whether I choose to use it in it's current release, is another choice that I can make. There is still freedom.

Very well said. People act like their basic freedoms were stripped. Now you have MORE choice. Heck, there's still people that use kde3..... I have no problem with it, it just illustrates how we can all get along and respect each other's choices.

al108
December 3rd, 2011, 06:41 AM
My main problem is hating thing does not actually create any result. My question, however, is how do we influence the development of Unity?

From what I read the future of Unity is not going to be bright. Where do we go to complain ? Enforcing on a user some new and useless features aren't gonna bring any good.

I wish that developers would work with the users to improve things ..... I would suggest to create a pool where will be listed a bunch of options which people potentially would like to see developed in unity and let forum people to vote for that. But the question still remains, will the developer listen to the users...?

Any Ubuntu developer here ?

cariboo907 mentioned a couple of ways for us to communicate with developers. Actually I believe Mark S. was talking about it in FL and how this communication can be improved. I also think cariboo907 said he'll facilitate conveing constructive ideas to developers. I think it's many ppls concern that unity's future is uncertain. We came here because we like Ubuntu and we want it to be the best!

deonis
December 3rd, 2011, 06:47 AM
We came here because we like Ubuntu and we want it to be the best!

thumb up for that !!

cariboo907
December 3rd, 2011, 06:53 AM
My main problem is hating thing does not actually create any result. My question, however, is how do we influence the development of Unity?

From what I read the future of Unity is not going to be bright. Where do we go to complain ? Enforcing on a user some new and useless features aren't gonna bring any good.

I wish that developers would work with the users to improve things ..... I would suggest to create a pool where will be listed a bunch of options which people potentially would like to see developed in unity and let forum people to vote for that. But the question still remains, will the developer listen to the users...?

Any Ubuntu developer here ?

No there aren't, there is just to much noise on the forums, for the developers to sort through. They do comment in the Testing & Discussion sub-forum, but only on specific problems we are having with the current testing version. If you want to talk to developers, either IRC (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList) or the mailing lists (https://lists.ubuntu.com/) are the place to do it.

deonis
December 3rd, 2011, 06:54 AM
thanks !!!

al108
December 3rd, 2011, 06:58 AM
Very well said. People act like their basic freedoms were stripped. Now you have MORE choice. Heck, there's still people that use kde3..... I have no problem with it, it just illustrates how we can all get along and respect each other's choices.

Yes, true let's get alone:) and remind to ppl nicely, without pusing them away, that they do have a choice and maybe along the road we'll figure out how to make Ubuntu better:)

mikewhatever
December 3rd, 2011, 07:02 AM
...

As I've stated before I see a lot of negativity from ppl who support "unity" instead of being a little more understanding. Negative attitude isn't going to help Ubuntu, the community or Canonical. If you support any of the above why push ppl away?

Why not tell that to your fellow haters, they might actually listen to you. Why demand understanding and positive attitude from others when you refuse to follow suit? Why hate, if you want to support Ubuntu? Don't you think that hatred pushes people away and harms the community?

Show positivity and gratitude out of the gate, and i dare say, you won't get any negativity in return.

Sam_Scribbler
December 3rd, 2011, 07:11 AM
I understand those that dislike Unity. I dislike it myself. Though it's quality free software, it just isn't made for me, so I switched to Xubuntu. The people that genuinely hate it and berate Canonical for the decision to implement it, however, I have this to say:

Linux, for decades, has been seen as nothing more than a system for hackers and enthusiasts. Linux has struggled to gain support from the commercial sector because most development costs are poured into catering to "average Joe user". After making great strides in public awareness, Canoncal is now reaching out to Joe through Unity, a desktop environment that resembles a blend of Windows 7 and iOS, two operating systems the public has readily embraced because of their hands-off, look-don't-touch approach. No, it's not perfect, or even that great, really, but it's a step toward making peace with the non tech-savvy world.

No, Unity is not for me, but I don't feel betrayed by Canonical for its implementation. In fact, I hope it will bring more users to an awareness of Linux and other free Unix-like systems. Then, maybe it will be more accepted in the public eye and we'll get more and better support from leading technology giants. And in a future where Microsoft threatens by law to lock all users to Windows 8 or else, more support is definitely NOT a bad thing.

al108
December 3rd, 2011, 08:09 AM
Why not tell that to your fellow haters, they might actually listen to you. Why demand understanding and positive attitude from others when you refuse to follow suit? Why hate, if you want to support Ubuntu? Don't you think that hatred pushes people away and harms the community?

Show positivity and gratitude out of the gate, and i dare say, you won't get any negativity in return.

Hmmm, I was hoping for just that. Haters come here, see that they are not hated, find help and stop hating.:lolflag:
I wish somebody would listen to me:D

mikewhatever
December 3rd, 2011, 08:41 AM
Hmmm, I was hoping for just that. Haters come here, see that they are not hated, find help and stop hating.:lolflag:
I wish somebody would listen to me:D

You've missed the point, which isn't unexpected.
Haters don't look for help, they also don't care to be liked or disliked, they come here to hate. That said, hating haters to me is as absurd as hating software that I don't have to use. Hate if you have to, just don't ask me to listen, let alone help you.

al108
December 3rd, 2011, 09:33 AM
You've missed the point, which isn't unexpected.
Haters don't look for help, they also don't care to be liked or disliked, they come here to hate. That said, hating haters to me is as absurd as hating software that I don't have to use. Hate if you have to, just don't ask me to listen, let alone help you.
Hey sorry I missed your point. I thought it was just funny:) As I've mentioned before I've been helped already by other kind souls out here. Well you right, some actually come here to hate for real, but there isn't many of them. Others would actually benefit from extra information on Unity (including the idea and the future of it, how to better use it, and how to communicate their experience to the developers) and other available options (how to switch to a different desktop). If you don't want to help those people I don't blame you. It's your choice. I chose to have a discussion about Unity and get understanding for myself and hopefully others. If you don't see a point in a discussion like that you don't have to participate in it either. It's your choice again. I see plenty of people here who are willing to help those who have problems with Unity despite the possible negative attitude. Why not? I don't have anything to lose if I tell somebody how easy it could be to switch and how to use apt-get or software center and install xfce/kde/g shell or whatever. And if it solves their problems they will hopefully stop "hating" and start thinking of how they can help improve Ubuntu. As simple as that. When people get frustrated they come to the forums to share their experience and if they get a cold shoulder they will most certainly leave and badmouth Ubuntu and the community for a long time. When I started this thread I asked those who agree with me to help and I see that quiet a few people actually want to help.

Big Thanks To Everybody Who Helps Others!

all_one_planet
December 5th, 2011, 09:15 PM
Thanks al108 for trying to get some help for those of us who want to use UBUNTU, have upgraded to the latest release because of hardware, or other stuff that needed updated software to run properly - but have found the Unity DE inefficient for our particular needs.

Personally, my frustration with Unity is more to do with it being UNPRODUCTIVE, or to be more accurate, getting in the way of my productivity. It is quite hard to articulate the precise tech reasons why it is unproductive. I know someone will end up telling me "It's new, you just need to get used to it", thereby showing I had not communicated the finer points of my experience accurately enough.

ie
1. The launch bar on the left appears, and gets in the way, when I have something on the left of my window that needs clicking (when in full window).
2. when in full window mode with an application, I cannot click on the desktop to get to the desktop toolbar.
3. When I have many windows open, I have to click on another window (which may be in the bottom right corner, then swing the mouse to the top left of my screen to reach the toolbar for that application.
4. Again, many windows and several switches from app to app and the whole swinging to the top right for each of them becomes confusing - therefore I waste more time swinging the mouse up to the top right when I hadn't clicked on the appropriate app... Keeping the toolbar with the app is LESS HASSLE!
5. The new scrollbar hides itself and I spend too much time trying to find it, getting the mouse in exactly the right position to click on it and then if I let go too quick or slow I've had to go through the whose - ridiculously slow (not to mention self-esteem sapping) process... so much so I'd end up scrolling with my mouse wheel - which on long pages took just as long!
6. If I do not know the name of an application I have no idea how to find it.
I can appreciate the trend to dumb-down everything and make it fizz+pop for entertainment value... but since MY top priority is for my desktop to be efficient and fast then I'm not the target market. Nor am I a Power-user, or an old-hand with a gazilion Linux hours.... in fact, I'm only 1 step beyond a complete newbie.

Therefore I'm uncomfortable getting myself on to an email list with developers just to tell them the above 5 points (not sure what an RC? thingy is, never mind talk to developers on it).

I agree with you, the place I looked first to find help with the problem with Unity - NOT UBUNTU - was the UBUNTU Forum... And I'm grateful that after some searching around I found the answers I needed.

I also agree, considering the huge number of people who have complained about their experience with Unity then surely it would be wise to have somewhere on the forum - nice and easy to find - for those who want choices but do not have the linux experience to figure it out for themselves.

I've also had to contend with reading a lot of drivel from people who want to tell me I'm an UBUNTU hater, or too dumb, if I cannot make Unity work for me. Very unhelpful.

Cheers :-)

deonis
December 5th, 2011, 09:31 PM
Well said !!! I cannot add anything to that post! Unity and Gnome 3 must be 2 times faster than they are now and Unity launcher has to be customizable. Not to mention that it takes straight 3-5 second for Pentium 4 to display Unity menu. It's a shame ! I will paraphrase Sheldon Cooper from Big Bang Theory. "My new linux came with Unity preinstalled. Unity is more user friendly then Gnome2. I don't like this.... :)"

Crempel
December 5th, 2011, 09:53 PM
Sorry, whilst I'm sick and tired of this endless "I hate Unity" talk, I am even more sick of this yearning for Gnome 2! A totally outdated, no longer actively supported DE. Whoever likes a DE with menus etc. can use KDE, far superior to the old Gnome and with mostly better (QT) programs...
Anyway, I really think we should put an end to this never ending (?) subject. Ubuntu is Unity (or Gnome 3) and that is it.:)

philinux
December 5th, 2011, 10:01 PM
.....Unity launcher has to be customizable......


See links in my Sig especially MyUnity ;)

It is available in 12.04. PPA for 11.04 and 11.10.

dirmansyah
December 5th, 2011, 10:03 PM
Hahaha. Now I see why MS Windows is more preferable for many "ordinary" users. For many persons, computer is something to use; not something to learn. A good programmer/developer will try to evaluate whatever people "hate", how common users with common sense should behave, and find solution; instead of thinking that those users are 'stupid'. [...people who can't face up to the fact...] ??? It is not "People face up to the fact of computer stuff". It is "The computer stuff must face up the fact of people".
With that conclusion you made, I hope you are not a programmer.



When it comes to computer stuff, I came to the conclusion long ago, that those who "hate" things the most, are just those people who can't face up to the fact, that whatever they "hate", is smarter than they are.

philinux
December 5th, 2011, 10:07 PM
Hahaha. Now I see why MS Windows is more preferable for many "ordinary" users. For many persons, computer is something to use; not something to learn. A good programmer/developer will try to evaluate whatever people "hate", how common users with common sense should behave, and find solution; instead of thinking that those users are 'stupid'. [...people who can't face up to the fact...] ??? It is not "People face up to the fact of computer stuff". It is "The computer stuff must face up the fact of people".
With that conclusion you made, I hope you are not a programmer.

If I remember correctly I had to learn how to use Windows. It was a steep learning curve at the time.

deonis
December 5th, 2011, 10:11 PM
A point of this discussion is not to "hate Unity" ! It Is to find ways of improve it !

philinux
December 5th, 2011, 10:23 PM
A point of this discussion is not to "hate Unity" ! It Is to find ways of improve it !

Only way is to start testing 12.04. http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=412

And talk to the devs. http://design.canonical.com/2011/11/getting-in-touch-with-us/

dirmansyah
December 5th, 2011, 10:30 PM
When I was a kid I learnt how to ride a bicycle, but did not learn "about" the bicycle. I was an ordinary rider. Hope you know what I mean.


If I remember correctly I had to learn how to use Windows. It was a steep learning curve at the time.

philinux
December 5th, 2011, 10:41 PM
When I was a kid I learnt how to ride a bicycle, but did not learn "about" the bicycle. I was an ordinary rider. Hope you know what I mean.

Ok so someone else mended all your punctures adjusted the seat for you and the handle bars and put the chain back on when it came off. And maintained the bike for you.

I used to do this for my kids. But they had to learn to do it themselves. I was not always there.

dmizer
December 6th, 2011, 05:08 AM
Hahaha. Now I see why MS Windows is more preferable for many "ordinary" users. For many persons, computer is something to use; not something to learn. A good programmer/developer will try to evaluate whatever people "hate", how common users with common sense should behave, and find solution; instead of thinking that those users are 'stupid'. [...people who can't face up to the fact...] ??? It is not "People face up to the fact of computer stuff". It is "The computer stuff must face up the fact of people".

You and many others make the mistake of assuming that users don't have to learn how to use Windows. The move from 3.1 to 95 was extremely confusing for most computer users of the time, as was the move from 95 to XP. In fact, I clearly recall much of the same sentiment being said about XP as is currently being said about Unity.

There is an entire industry revolving around documentation, educational materials, and even schools dedicated to teaching people how to use Windows and its software. The same is true for Mac and all of Apple's products. If Windows and Mac was "intuitive", this industry would cease to exist.

We are happy to help you learn how to use Linux and Ubuntu, we are not so happy to "do it for you", or spoon feed users who refuse to try to find solutions before posting on the forum. We are also justifiably upset with those who insist that Unity is the worst UI ever. Meet us halfway. As with ANY UI, Unity has its good points and it's bad. So, while most members of the Ubuntu community recognize and acknowledge that Unity isn't perfect, many are also reasonably happy with it, and reasonably upset with those who disparage it.

As much as people seem to focus on inconsequential changes like having the window action buttons on the left instead of the right, or the menu bar integrated into the panel, or even having the panel on the top instead of at the bottom, these things are so terribly minor for usability concerns that it's laughable. Most users can get used to those small differences within a matter of minutes of using a UI.

Ubuntu is being daring and inventive. Going against the norm to invent a new way of using and interfacing with your computer with the idea that the user's experience will eventually be enriched by it. As with any such enterprise, there will be failings and triumphs. They are also doing this while there are still plenty of other viable options around so that people who need to use their computer can. Get on board and be a part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

beew
December 6th, 2011, 05:58 AM
We are happy to help you learn how to use Linux and Ubuntu, we are not so happy to "do it for you", or spoon feed users who refuse to try to find solutions before posting on the forum. We are also justifiably upset with those who insist that Unity is the worst UI ever. Meet us halfway. As with ANY UI, Unity has its good points and it's bad. So, while most members of the Ubuntu community recognize and acknowledge that Unity isn't perfect, many are also reasonably happy with it, and reasonably upset with those who disparage it.
.

I would normally agree with your sentiment except that the stated goal of Unity is supposedly to spoon feed users (or the "average" users )who don't have much interest in learning the UI or fooling around with options. So it seems to have failed rather ironically when you have to chastise "lazy users" for expecting to be spoon fed. :)

I think the way to make Unity more usable for the average users is not to hide options from them so that if they do want to do some simple configuring they would have to install a bunch of packages and go googling. Instead they should 1) configure the default settings sensibly to minimize the need to configuring and 2) make the configuring options accessible and organized if the need arises.

Now it is neither.

Consider 2),right now these options are scattered in different places --system settings, gnome-tweak-tool, gnome-tweak-tool-extensions, ccsm, gconf-editor, dconf-editor. Of all of these only "system settings" comes preinstalled and the rest the user would have to install them himself/herself. It is confusing even for the relatively experienced, let alone the new users.

How about default configuration? Try one example. Dump any file on your desktop and try search for it with the gnome-search-tool searching in File System. It won't find it even when the file is staring at you. If you switch to search in Home then it may or may not find it depending on whether there has been a reboot after you place the file. This problem has been around since 10.04 (as far as I know, could be earlier) so that many experienced users basically tell new comers that the tool is broken and they should just use the command line to search.

But it actually works ! All you have to do is open gconf-editor, go to apps > gnome search tool and disable "quick search". Now if "quick search" has been obviously broken since at least 10.04 why on earth do they still configure it as the default, and not provide the means to properly configure it? (the gconf-editor is no longer installed by default)

There are other examples, like banshee's tray icon which you need to access in order to quit banshee if you have close the window expecting that you have exited it, or LibreOffice's quick start tray icon, which you have to quit from before you shut down or the computer wouldn't shut down. To be able to access these icons they would have to be visible. For that you would have to whitelist the applications in dconf-editor, but the latter is not even installed. Now what is more confusing to the new user? Having to whitelist an app or to be baffled why the computer doesn't shut down (or why the music still plays when banshee is apparently shut down) ? (The whole idea that you have to whitelist an app for the tray icon to appear is kind of stupid, more sensible would be a blacklist, but that is kind of off topic)

click4851
December 6th, 2011, 06:07 AM
interesting...... now users are the problem?

dmizer
December 6th, 2011, 06:15 AM
interesting...... now users are the problem?

Nope.

click4851
December 6th, 2011, 06:22 AM
"Get on board and be a part of the solution instead of part of the problem."

I'm not on board, I'm a user

What am I missing?

dirmansyah
December 6th, 2011, 01:06 PM
OK, I got it.

As per Ubuntu 11.10, Unity is perfect.

I must be a lazy newbie; a stupid user who can not follow Unity and must switch to lxde and xfce desktops.

Thank you.

dirmansyah
December 6th, 2011, 01:48 PM
[...these things are so terribly minor for usability concerns that it's laughable...]

Yes, they are. Yes, it is. That is why I like xubuntu and lubuntu desktops. Oops...

You and many others make the mistake of assuming that users don't have to learn how to use Windows. The move from 3.1 to 95 was extremely confusing for most computer users of the time, as was the move from 95 to XP. In fact, I clearly recall much of the same sentiment being said about XP as is currently being said about Unity.

There is an entire industry revolving around documentation, educational materials, and even schools dedicated to teaching people how to use Windows and its software. The same is true for Mac and all of Apple's products. If Windows and Mac was "intuitive", this industry would cease to exist.

We are happy to help you learn how to use Linux and Ubuntu, we are not so happy to "do it for you", or spoon feed users who refuse to try to find solutions before posting on the forum. We are also justifiably upset with those who insist that Unity is the worst UI ever. Meet us halfway. As with ANY UI, Unity has its good points and it's bad. So, while most members of the Ubuntu community recognize and acknowledge that Unity isn't perfect, many are also reasonably happy with it, and reasonably upset with those who disparage it.

As much as people seem to focus on inconsequential changes like having the window action buttons on the left instead of the right, or the menu bar integrated into the panel, or even having the panel on the top instead of at the bottom, these things are so terribly minor for usability concerns that it's laughable. Most users can get used to those small differences within a matter of minutes of using a UI.

Ubuntu is being daring and inventive. Going against the norm to invent a new way of using and interfacing with your computer with the idea that the user's experience will eventually be enriched by it. As with any such enterprise, there will be failings and triumphs. They are also doing this while there are still plenty of other viable options around so that people who need to use their computer can. Get on board and be a part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

thatguruguy
December 6th, 2011, 02:23 PM
When I was a kid I learnt how to ride a bicycle, but did not learn "about" the bicycle. I was an ordinary rider. Hope you know what I mean.

So, no one taught you how to ride a bicycle? You just jumped on, and everything was exactly how you thought it would be?

How about when you learned how to drive a car? Did the controls for the car work the exact same way as the controls for the bicycle? After all, they are both modes of transportation, and therefore there shouldn't be any differences.

Smilax
December 6th, 2011, 02:38 PM
here's some help for those who hate unity.... xfce.


as for tryin to say what you feel about untiy, you know, being part of the 'community', i've long since realised what a waste of time that is, no-ones listening, don't matter what you say, your wrong, so why bother...

nothingspecial
December 6th, 2011, 02:48 PM
For the record, my first computer came with Ubuntu on it and although I now have a computer with a windows 7 install on it, I wouldn't have the first clue how to change the theme let alone trouble shoot it.

So saying Windows is easier to learn to use is just wrong. I'm sure a little searching and a polite question or two on a windows forum and I'd be fine. I doubt ranting and moaning on a windows forum would help much. The same could be said for Ubuntu.

dmizer
December 6th, 2011, 03:49 PM
[...these things are so terribly minor for usability concerns that it's laughable...]

Yes, they are. Yes, it is. That is why I like xubuntu and lubuntu desktops. Oops...

If those concerns were major, people wouldn't be able to make the move from Windows to Mac.



OK, I got it.

As per Ubuntu 11.10, Unity is perfect.
No one here said anything of the sort.

Smilax
December 6th, 2011, 04:54 PM
As much as people seem to focus on inconsequential changes like having the window action buttons on the left instead of the right, or the menu bar integrated into the panel, or even having the panel on the top instead of at the bottom, these things are so terribly minor for me
.


fixed that for you

dmizer
December 6th, 2011, 05:17 PM
fixed that for you

How witty, original and insightful.

keithpeter
December 6th, 2011, 05:31 PM
3. When I have many windows open, I have to click on another window (which may be in the bottom right corner, then swing the mouse to the top left of my screen to reach the toolbar for that application.

Hello all_one_planet and all

My work around for this 'mouse marathon' issue on a desktop with a large monitor is to use the 'accelerator keys' when available (e.g. Alt-F opens the file menu &c).

I also use F10 and the forward/back arrow keys to select menus and then the up/down arrow keys to select items, including the indicator menus.

Keyboard is better for me than mouse (I am using dwm/dmenu as my main DE).

Your list provides a 'model' of the way you use a computer. My 'model' might be quite different.

I'm beginning to think we need a YouTube channel with one minute videos of each of us doing typical tasks on their fully-loaded desktops. The logical thing to do is search for a DE that matches your 'model'. GNU/Linux offers us such choice.

On Mac OS X: In that system Save As... as been disabled and replaced with a filer based Duplicate!

keithpeter
December 6th, 2011, 05:41 PM
There is an entire industry revolving around documentation, educational materials, and even schools dedicated to teaching people how to use Windows and its software. The same is true for Mac and all of Apple's products. If Windows and Mac was "intuitive", this industry would cease to exist.

Hello dmizer

And that is an industry we can help to build for Ubuntu (all flavours) users.

In my signature the second link leads to an early draft of a simple starter guide to Ubuntu 11.10 as installed from the Desktop CD.

If someone wanted to parallel that for Xubuntu and Lubuntu, that would be really ace.

Rules: it has to work with default applications off the Live CD, with the sole exception of restricted extras.

I'm also investigating how I can contribute to the documentation effort - docbook isn't making much sense yet so I'll probably have to find 'bugs' in the existing documentation for a bit.

oldos2er
December 6th, 2011, 05:53 PM
Thread going off-topic, a bit too much negativity. Closed.