November 15th, 2011, 01:32 AM
I read all the docs; no help there; running update-manager -d, seems to upgrade you to Ubuntu and Unity; need I say more.
I download the DVD, but it doesn't have an upgrade option; not sure what is up with that; I must have downloaded the wrong disc; but I didn't find another one...
I like Gnome 2.x; and switching to XFCE, is better than Gnome 3, so on the machine I did the 11.10 update; I installed xubuntu-desktop; the base install was Ubuntu Studio 11.04; but after the update; I have no idea; but my guess is that its now xubuntu; but since its all a matter of what is installed; that is no problem; all that is left is to see about low-latency kernel; for 11.10; which I have not done yet; but I have one more machine to upgrade and I want to do this one right; so what do you suggest.
I was going to do a fresh install; I still might; but this time I stuck in my Ubuntu Studio 11.10 disk; and the OS recognized it; why it didn't the other times is still a mystery to me; but it ask me if I want to upgrade; very cool; will try it first; I had no idea that is is how the disc was suppose to work; I did this on several machines, and never got this prompt; why it prompted now, who knows; but at least now I know how it may work for others; and why it didn't work for others as well; if this didn't happen this time; I may have never tired it again till 12 came out; no one has ever told me about this feature; never read it any where; it was a surprise.
November 15th, 2011, 03:36 AM
Ubuntu studio should be considered as Ubuntu + extra apps., some minor tweaks.
So, if you do upgrade from 11.04->11.10 you will get what ever comes with ubuntu 11.10.
The ubuntu studio 11.10 is turning point. New start. So you can't upgrade in the sense of ubuntu studio distro.
From 11.10 ubuntu studio should be considered as Xubuntu + extra apps, some minor tweaks. As fas as I know.
November 15th, 2011, 07:21 AM
I guess this means that Gnome 2 is dead for Ubuntu:(
I was hoping to keep Gnome 2 working; it seems even Mint is going Gnome 3, so the choice of a Desktop is getting narrowed, and since I never cared for the others all that much, it makes me wonder if I should upgrade at all; I'm one of those that just doesn't like Unity at all.
I'll have to look into getting Gnome 2 working on Ubuntu 11.10; if not; not much reason to upgrade; but what distro to go to now is the big question; if you want Gnome 2, the options are getting slim; Gnome 3 will be the end of Linux if you ask me; there seem to be a lot of people who feel the same way about; like its a step back; its designed for dummies, and believe me, I tried hard to learn to use it; tried not to bash it, which is more then I can say for my keyboard when trying to use it; its frustrating.
I installed xubuntu, and kubuntu and now HandBrake will not encode audio in the videos I tired to convert today; so now I have to figure that out; why couldn't they just do the right thing and start a new project; instead of calling Gnome 3, as if it was the new Gnome, better, more improved over Gnome 3, instead of some, I don't know what to call it without getting ill tempered or foul monthed, so I will not say it; but you know what I mean; people either think its ok or they hate it; but to break Linux just to put out and inferior program like this is a crime; I think some MS traders took over Gnome, call me a Conspiracy theorist; but how else can you explain this, this is crazy; this interface is useless; unusable; programs crash and burn running on it; it makes it near impossible to find programs; you have no desktop control; themes suck; and the list goes on.
You think Windows sucks; welcome to the new era; when Linux starts to suck even more; we need an alternative; and I don't see one; I tried all the other Desktops; I hope Kubuntu has hopes; other wise, I have no idea what to do next; but live with no ever upgrading and hope that things don't keep breaking.
November 15th, 2011, 09:39 AM
Gnome 3 will be the end of Linux if you ask me;Running X server is just an option for gnu/linux OS. Gnome3 sure will not be the end of it.
There are plenty of DE and WM to choose. And Gnome3 has just started, so normaly, there are bugs etc.
If you insist on gnome2 then install debian or centos. It will be there for years.
November 15th, 2011, 06:49 PM
Your right about it not being the end of Linux, I didn't mean that it will end it; what I mean was it will be the end to people wanting to try it; if they think this is what Linux is all about; they will not be back.
I have been running Unix of some flavor since the 70's, I think in that time I tried them all; I don't need a GUI, most of the work I do doesn't require it; but like most I decided to expand what I do, and lately that was making Videos; which lets face it; no GUI, no Video; so its now important to me.
Most of my Machines run CentOS; web-servers and development machines; I'm a computer programmer; I switched from Unix to Linux, then Red Hat to Fedora, then Debian to Ubuntu; and it looks like I have to say goodby to Ubuntu and pick another OS; so this is the End of Ubuntu, which is Linux, so my statement about the End is as such.
Unix has advantages, maybe I should go back, not that I ever left, I still have my Alpha, I still have True64, or Digital Unix, but lets face it; its not Linux, doesn't have the App base, but I can recompile, make fixes, and press on; but I know its stable, I don't have apps breaking all over the place in an effort to fix a Desktop that was so buggy that it should still be in Beta, yet released as if it wasn't; Unix people do not do this; they are professionals; not kids on candy trying to show off how smart they are.
To bad, I liked Ubuntu; but I don't like Gnome 3, its not ready for the Public; its not ready to use period; they did not think it out; if they had, it would have backwards compatibility built in; I would be able to use my old menu system if I want to; not being force feed a menu system that doesn't work for me and locking me out of features that are Gnome to me; Unity is not Gnome, its not what Gnome was all about; in fact, what is a Desktop? Its a system of features, menus, themes, look and feel, and millions of other factors from a programming stance; so what does Gnome 2 have in common with Gnome 3?
Menu system? No
Look and Feel? No
So it has nothing in common, no backwards compatibility and therefor its not the next evolution, its a whole new one; one that I want no part in.
I can not upgrade to it; that is my point and I think you can see that; if you like Unity; glad for you, you don't have to find another OS, and I will not be back; and I think a lot of users will feel the same way; Gnome 3 was the end not the beginning of something great; its so inflexible its a joke; maybe in another year, if they decide to make it backwards compatible, which should have been a design consideration from the start, it might be ready for the public; but to air your beta as if its what Linux is all about, is just arrogance and its ignorance combined; the younger generation of programmers wanted to show us old timers the metal they are made of; well Sunny, you showed us you are not too bright, and to proud to admit it; so listen to an old timer and go back to the drawing board, this time, swallow your pride, look at how real people use the computer and not what you think you can force feed us by spoon, as if we are your children, and then you will see the errors of your ways; we want access to all our apps, without having to remember the name of a program, who came up with that stupid idea, menus work fine, if I wanted to type in an app name I'll use the command line in a terminal to do so; GUI's are not colorful command prompts, they are User Interfaces, and the Mouse, well that is to help no hinder, which is the motto of Gnome 3, to see how irritating you can make an Interface.
Now to find an OS that still has a working GUI or learn to use a new one.
I don't like, nor dislike X or K Ubuntu, its close, and its usable, compared to other OS's, its great, I could learn to love it; but do I want to take the time to learn it, or do I move on, knowing that one day all Desktops will change, and maybe its just me that is so inflexible; oh the joys of getting older.
Update: First I have to first say this about Ubuntu and the Community, its the best, I have no doubts about that; so I will admit that I am inflexible; and move on; I'll do the upgrade, and give XFCE (not sure of the real difference between it and X), X and K Ubuntu a try; I'm sure I can learn to love it as much as I did my old friend Gnome 2.
I was going to do a fresh install; I still might; but this time I stuck in my Ubuntu Studio 11.10 disk; and the OS recognized it; why it didn't the other times is still a mystry to me; but it ask me if I want to upgrade; very cool; will try it first; I had no idea that is is how the disc was suppose to work; I did this on several machines, and never got this prompt; why it prompted now, who knows; but at least now I know how it may work for others; and why it didn't work for others as well; if this didn't happen this time; I may have never tired it again till 12 came out; no one has ever told me about this feature; never read it any where; it was a surprise.
November 17th, 2011, 02:46 PM
While I agree with most of what you have written, I constantly remind myself that the THEY are we. Meaning, If I would contribute then I can make a positive change.
So to add to your list, I want to contribute the following:
"It's my computer quit trying to protect me from me. I am willing to be responsible SO quit taking over all the security on my computer. I will handle all that. IF I fail then I will deal with the consequences. Linux attracted me because of the FREEDOM the OS offered."
I really dislike having to authenticate evertime I want to do something new on my PC. I am ONE OF THOSE that activates the "root" account and then logs in as root.
I deleted Fedora for this reason. I really don't want to quit using Ubuntu Studio. BUT push come to shove, when I get fed up enough with the mainstream "follow the sheep in front of you" mentality then I can attack the learning curve to compile my own version of linux. Maybe that is where the "Freedom" really exist.
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