why don't they have it?

[fuscia]

lately, i've been playing with both gnome and kde (redecorating both, mostly) and i wonder why neither has workspace scrolling nor the option for a right click menu. when i use openbox, instead of metacity, in gnome, workspace scrolling works, so it's not like it can't be done. i often see people writing of how they prefer the functionality of a DE over a wm. what functionality is that? (<--- innocent question, i assure you)

[ComplexNumber]

i may well know it under a different description, but whats "workspace scrolling" exactly? i suppose i can make a guess at what it is, but there's no point when you can answer that.

as for your question, i just like the whole package put together. the other DE's and WM's just didn't fit whereas gnome does. its actually quite a difficult question to answer.

[zenwhen]

Perhaps enough people like you have not requested these features. Perhaps other features are being placed at a higher priority for implementation. Your question at the end of your post was indeed NOT innocent, by the way. It was pure troll-talk. Cut it out.

[Super King]

I think KDE and Gnome don't include right-click 'Start' menu and desktop workspace scrolling because they are aimed at being more of a 'Windows-like' environment, in which these features don't exist and aren't as practical (for example, when you have an equivalent to the Windows Start menu, there's no real benefit to a right-click menu that provides the same functionality). I think generally those two features are something a typical Linux 'tweaker' would enjoy rather than a typical user coming over from Windows.

Of course it would be nice if they were included as an option.

[fuscia]

Your question at the end of your post was indeed NOT innocent, by the way. It was pure troll-talk. Cut it out.

yes, it was. just because i find DEs that don't do what i want to be less functional, doesn't mean they are not functional. so, i'm curious about what functions users of DEs see as more valuable than the ones i find in openbox. it's a bad example, as i can use nautilus in openbox, but i find auto-mounting my camera in nautilus to be just easier than looking for the command i have stored somewhere and entering that into a terminal and then having to use feh to look at each pic rather than the thumbnails in nautilus. as i said, though, i can still use nautilus in openbox, so i'm wondering what functionality it is that i'm missing in openbox that users of DEs find valuable.

is that such an unreasonable question that you have to accuse me of trolling?

[BoyOfDestiny]

I'm not sure what workspace scrolling is...

I'm guessing it's this:

When you move the mouse wheel when over the little virtual desktop applet in gnome, it will switch spaces.

Same goes for apps in the taskbar/pager (whatever it's called.)

[Ptero-4]

Fucsia. Isn't "workspace scrolling" that e16 trick where moving the pointer through an edge of the screen switches to the workspace next to it (assuming there's a workspace there), for example: if you're in workspace 1 and move the pointer through the bottom edge the wm switches to workspace 3 (which is below workspace 1).

[Jucato]

I'm not sure how it's done in GNOME but here's my take on KDE:

1. Workspace scrolling: Right Click on the desktop > Configure Desktop > click Multiple Desktops > at the bottom of the window there's a tab for "Mouse Wheel over desktop background changes desktop

2. Right-click K Menu: Again, Configure Desktop > this time choose Behavior > Near the bottom there is the "Mouse Actions" group. You can configure your left, right, middle mouse buttons to display different kinds of menus. For example, if you want to display the K Menu when you right-click on the desktop, choose "Application Menu" in the pull-down menu beside "Right button".

Play around with the options and have fun. :D

[fuscia]

sorry about that, complex. i meant to explain 'scrollable workspaces' and got distracted. if i scroll on an empty space anywhere on the desktop in openbox, i can swithc forward and backwards through the desktops. once i got used to doing it, it was a pain to have to go to the toolbar every time i wanted to change workspaces. it's the same with the right click menu vs. the toolbar menu.

[ComplexNumber]

sorry about that, complex. i meant to explain 'scrollable workspaces' and got distracted. if i scroll on an empty space anywhere on the desktop in openbox, i can swithc forward and backwards through the desktops. once i got used to doing it, it was a pain to have to go to the toolbar every time i wanted to change workspaces. it's the same with the right click menu vs. the toolbar menu. cheers fella. i thought it was something like that. i remember using it once in KDE when i was messing about with configurations and such like, but switched it back to normal because i found it annoying. it was really easy to find oneself disorientated and wondering whereabouts i was within the workspaces whenever i moved a window slightly too far off the edge of the screen. its certainly not a feature i would miss - rather, it was one that i would never like to see again. maybe gnome has it, but because i don't need it, i haven't looked for it.

[fuscia]

cheers fella. i thought it was something like that. i remember using it once in KDE when i was messing about with configurations and such like, but switched it back to normal because i found it annoying. it was really easy to find oneself disorientated and wondering whereabouts i was within the workspaces whenever i moved a window slightly too far off the edge of the screen. its certainly not a feature i would miss - rather, it was one that i would never like to see again. maybe gnome has it, but because i don't need it, i haven't looked for it.

fluxbox has that thing where you can drag a window to the edge of the workspace and it will move into the next one. that's different from workspace scrolling. in gnome and kde, one can hold the mouse over that workspace box thing on the toolbar and scroll through the workspaces. in openbox (and fluxbox) one can do it all over the desktop. when i first started using xfce, which also has workspace scrolling and the ability to drag a window to another desktop, i was fresh from windows ME and had never even heard of such a thing. i thought there was something wrong, so i quit using xfce.

so, i'm still wondering if this 'functionality' is something i've missed out on, or are they functions i know about that just aren't for me, just as workspace dragging is not for you.

[Jucato]

so, i'm still wondering if this 'functionality' is something i've missed out on, or are they functions i know about that just aren't for me, just as workspace dragging is not for you.
I've already posted how it's done in KDE, if that's what you were looking for (see post #8 )

[fuscia]

I've already posted how it's done in KDE, if that's what you were looking for (see post #8)

sorry, dude. i missed it the first time. thanks.

[Stormy Eyes]

when i use openbox, instead of metacity, in gnome, workspace scrolling works, so it's not like it can't be done.

It hasn't been done in Metacity because Havoc Pennington is a demon-ridden sadist. I'd like to meet the rat bastard who decided to use Metacity as the default GNOME window manager and spank him with the flat of a Hattori Hanzo katana.

[fuscia]

I'm not sure how it's done in GNOME but here's my take on KDE:

1. Workspace scrolling: Right Click on the desktop > Configure Desktop > click Multiple Desktops > at the bottom of the window there's a tab for "Mouse Wheel over desktop background changes desktop

2. Right-click K Menu: Again, Configure Desktop > this time choose Behavior > Near the bottom there is the "Mouse Actions" group. You can configure your left, right, middle mouse buttons to display different kinds of menus. For example, if you want to display the K Menu when you right-click on the desktop, choose "Application Menu" in the pull-down menu beside "Right button".

Play around with the options and have fun. :D

so, i just reinstalled kde (i do it about five a day) to try this and, this is sad, i'm overwhelmed with joy. that's awesome. any other hidden jewels?

kde is still sluggish on this old thing, but i get my new laptop soon, so no problem.

[briancurtin]

Perhaps other features are being placed at a higher priority for implementation. Your question at the end of your post was indeed NOT innocent, by the way. It was pure troll-talk. Cut it out.
lighten up. he asked a question, he is not a troll.

[Jucato]

so, i just reinstalled kde (i do it about five a day) to try this and, this is sad, i'm overwhelmed with joy. that's awesome. any other hidden jewels?

kde is still sluggish on this old thing, but i get my new laptop soon, so no problem.

Those weren't really hidden settings, more like rarely used, unpopular settings so very few people notice that it's there. There are other features as well, but I don't have a list of them and sometimes just remember them when someone asks. (Maybe I should keep a list...:D)

Btw, you could have just used a Live CD for any KDE distro and it would have worked. Of course, that's presuming that you have one with you and don't mind rebooting :p

[fuscia]

thanks, brian.

[GarethMB]

In gnome almost all the applets can be controlled by the mmb.

You can switch windows if you use it on that part of the panel.

If you are over the pager, then it will switch workspaces. You could also use the gnome key binding Ctrl Alt and left/right/up/down arrow.

If you are over the volume control it will go up/down

On a side note the Gnome DE is gnome and Metacity. So perhaps its just the metacity window manager you dislike? Perhaps Compiz might fill you desire for being able to switch workspace from any point on the desktop.

[Jucato]

In gnome almost all the applets can be controlled by the mmb.

You can switch windows if you use it on that part of the panel.

If you are over the pager, then it will switch workspaces. You could also use the gnome key binding Ctrl Alt and left/right/up/down arrow.

What fuscia was looking for was exactly not this (he specifically mentioned 9 posts up). Nice tidbit of info though. I'm sure not may are aware of that.

However, I think you hit the nail on this one:

On a side note the Gnome DE is gnome and Metacity. So perhaps its just the metacity window manager you dislike? Perhaps Compiz might fill you desire for being able to switch workspace from any point on the desktop.

I think switching desktops/windows is actually a function of the window manager. Running a different window manager besides Metacity might help. (Or do like Poofyhairguy and run KWin on GNOME)

[fuscia]

On a side note the Gnome DE is gnome and Metacity. So perhaps its just the metacity window manager you dislike? Perhaps Compiz might fill you desire for being able to switch workspace from any point on the desktop.

i plan on trying compiz when i get my new laptop. i think poofy said that workspace scrolling from anywhere would work with compiz.

ok, but i can already do that in openbox. so, what am i missing by using openbox instead of a DE? i wasn't aware that one could do workspace scrolling and right click menus in kde, so perhaps there's other stuff i'm unaware of. (i have yet to find a way to customize the kde right click menu that is as easy to use as obmenu. any ideas?)

[Jucato]

ok, but i can already do that in openbox. so, what am i missing by using openbox instead of a DE?

Practically you'll miss nothing except Metacity. :D
Openbox is a window manager, and window managers operate on top of DEs (GNOME, KDE, Xfce). You won't be removing GNOME, but replacing Metacity. And that means no more Metacity-compatible themes, window decorations, etc. (I'm not sure about icons and widget styles, though).

(i have yet to find a way to customize the kde right click menu that is as easy to use as obmenu. any ideas?)

I haven't used Openbox, so have no idea what the obmenu can do. Can you elaborate (better if you could post a screenie). It might be something "hidden" in KDE, too. I'm not entirely sure, though.

[fuscia]

Practically you'll miss nothing except Metacity. :D
Openbox is a window manager, and window managers operate on top of DEs (GNOME, KDE, Xfce). You won't be removing GNOME, but replacing Metacity. And that means no more Metacity-compatible themes, window decorations, etc. (I'm not sure about icons and widget styles, though).

when using openbox in gnome, it's only the window decorations that are changed. now that i think about it, i'm not sure if metacity theming can be used for 'controls', or if it's just the gtk themes.

I haven't used Openbox, so have no idea what the obmenu can do. Can you elaborate (better if you could post a screenie). It might be something "hidden" in KDE, too. I'm not entirely sure, though.

here's my openbox right-click menu, set up by obmenu...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/unknownentity/appmenu.jpg

the only clue, so far, that i can do anything similar in kde is this mention of 'custom menu'...

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/309/menukde4kc.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=menukde4kc.jpg)

oddly, as most of what i do with kde is play with the desktop, i'm finding the right-click desktop menu more useful than the apps menu. perhaps that may be because i don't have the apps menu set up the way i like it, but it could just be that i use kde in a different manner than openbox.

[Jucato]

Hmm... you could emulate the almost the same thing by editing your K Menu (kmenuedit) to show your favorite/chosen apps on the top, the group everything else under a single folder.

But K Menu doesn't stop there. You could also add some other functionality, like a Settings group that can either launch individual KControl modules or KControl itself, a Quick (File) Browser, Bookmarks group, etc.

You can add these (they are appended below the "Actions" label and above "Run Command") by going to the Panels settings (right-click on any panel/taskbar, and choose "Configure Panel") and going to the Menus tab/group.

I could probably make an example for you, but right now I'm a bit preoccupied with tweaking a Dapper test install I made :D

[fuscia]

Hmm... you could emulate the almost the same thing by editing your K Menu (kmenuedit) to show your favorite/chosen apps on the top, the group everything else under a single folder.

i tried doing that with kmenuedit, but i guess i didn't do it right (must play more with it).

kde is starting to remind me of early testing of the F-14. the pilots were getting so much feedback, they started turning half their instruments off. however, there's no harm in being overwhelmed in the safety of my bonus room.

[GarethMB]

Perhaps the deskbar included in Dapper would also be appealing to you. You can launch by just a few keys or you can select from the history of what you've done.

[fuscia]

Perhaps the deskbar included in Dapper would also be appealing to you. You can launch by just a few keys or you can select from the history of what you've done.

my laptop is coming with dapper installed, so i'll have to check it out.

one drawback to my beloved openbox is that i've already done everything i can think of to do with it, so i'm definitely looking for little surprises to pop up on me. this has been a fun thread. (trolling, indeed! ](*,) )

[disturbed1]

Try brightside for gnome :mrgreen:



Top left, bottom left launch applications. Moving the mouse to the left/right screen edge will switch the work space.

[Quartus]

lately, i've been playing with both gnome and kde (redecorating both, mostly) and i wonder why neither has workspace scrolling nor the option for a right click menu. when i use openbox, instead of metacity, in gnome, workspace scrolling works, so it's not like it can't be done. i often see people writing of how they prefer the functionality of a DE over a wm. what functionality is that? (<--- innocent question, i assure you)
I must say I was a little surprised reading this thread since no one has yet mentioned XFCE.
It's a DE but yet it has a right click menu and workspace scrolling.

[ComplexNumber]

one drawback to my beloved openbox is that i've already done everything i can think of to do with it, so i'm definitely looking for little surprises to pop up on me. this has been a fun thread. (trolling, indeed! ](*,) ) btw if you're happy enough with openbox, why change? i'm just curious because i can't see your motivation in wanting to try out other DE's and WM's

[fuscia]

btw if you're happy enough with openbox, why change? i'm just curious because i can't see your motivation in wanting to try out other DE's and WM's

i'm constantly re-arranging my desktop. when i can use compiz, i may never leave the house.

I must say I was a little surprised reading this thread since no one has yet mentioned XFCE.
It's a DE but yet it has a right click menu and workspace scrolling.

xfce was the first alternative DE/wm i ever used. i was looking for lightweight as i have an old POS. i found lighter and faster, so i stopped using it (i never liked the window decorations either). xfce strikes me as midway between stark and featured. that must be great for some, while unsatisfactory to others.

[bonzodog]

I was going to say xfce as well, as it does everything you describe, and 4.4 (the dapper version) also has a wicked compositor. I don't find it heavy at all, and they have altered a lot now for 4.4. The current theme set is amazing, and it will skin all gtk apps, unlike Openbox. I have managed to get FF 1.5.0.3 (the dapper standard release) to override the forum theme and do a black/green look, simply by turning off the setting to allow websites to set the colours, and then telling it to use the system colours. It has a very good right click menu, and scrolls down screens with the mouse. It is much lighter than KDE, so if you can run KDE comfortably, then try using Xubuntu Dapper, which is available as an ISO image itself now.

[Jucato]

@fuscia:
Here, I did a little experiment with the K Menu. Of course it won't be exactly like the openbox, but I think it comes close. (This is a fresh Dapper install, so my application choices are a bit limited :D) That using right-click to launch the K Menu (also known as applications menu)

http://www.freewebs.com/jucato/screenshots/kmenu.jpg

Off-topic: I just realized how big PNG file sizes are compared to JPG, while I was editing the screenshot. Too bad JPG isn't an open format. :(

[ComplexNumber]

Off-topic: I just realized how big PNG file sizes are compared to JPG, while I was editing the screenshot. Too bad JPG isn't an open format. png is better than jpg. it has support for tranparancy which jpg doesn't. i personally think jpg is crap - watch what happens to your jpg images if you edit them several times (especially if they're vectors). the quality really goes downhill. thats why if i have to resize or edit a jpg image, the first thing i do is to convert it to png.

[Jucato]

I also prefer PNG over JPG (and sometimes over GIF).
Unfortunately, when compression is crucial, like for web pages, I don't think PNG cuts it (or maybe I'm doing something wrong in Krita... don't have the GIMP installed yet). That same screenshot is around 35 KB as a JPG and 140 KB as PNG.

[fuscia]

hey, fenyx, that's a pretty nice job you did on that menu. do you know of a 'how to' for kmenuedit?

[Jucato]

A How-to? None that I know of. But kmenuedit is really simple. Drag and drop most of the time, if you're just rearranging stuff. What I did was actually copy existing menu entries and paste them somewhere else. What part of kmenuedit are you having a hard time on?

To make the K Menu only show the app name without the descriptions in ( ), right-click on the panel > Configure Panel > Menus tab/group > in the K Menu group, choose "Name only". There are other choices there, too.

(Btw, I just remember in Enlightenment, the setup of the mouse buttons is like this: left - Applications menu, middle - desktops/windows list, right - configuration/settings)

[Raeth]

If by workspace scrolling you mean scrolling the mouse over the workspace applet, then both GNOME and KDE do it for me.

KDE and GNOME work in a different way to WM. If you notice, by default GNOME has the applications menu at the top, and KDE at the bottom, which stay on top of applications. This allows you to open applications without minimising windows or changing workspace to click on the desktop.

[Jucato]

If by workspace scrolling you mean scrolling the mouse over the workspace applet, then both GNOME and KDE do it for me.

This was not what he was asking about. Read post #11 to see that it was exactly not that thing.

Btw, he was referring to the OpenBox window manager, not WM (WindowMaker) window manager.

[fuscia]

If by workspace scrolling you mean scrolling the mouse over the workspace applet, then both GNOME and KDE do it for me.

KDE and GNOME work in a different way to WM. If you notice, by default GNOME has the applications menu at the top, and KDE at the bottom, which stay on top of applications. This allows you to open applications without minimising windows or changing workspace to click on the desktop.

nice nap, mr. winkle?

[papangul]

Another "why don't they have it?" item: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48004
Note the date of filing of the bug report!

It's amazing gnome is the default DE of a distro like Ubuntu.(Though, personally I use Ubuntu because Gnome is it's default DE ](*,) )

Hope 'revolution' by darkmatter happens soon.

[fuscia]

Another "why don't they have it?" item: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48004
Note the date of filing of the bug report!

i know that option exists in kde (i once got a complaint for posting all four desktops in the gallery. isn't that great about linux? no matter what you do, there's always someone there to come through with a complaint. ah, choice!)

It's amazing gnome is the default DE of a distro like Ubuntu.(Though, personally I use Ubuntu because Gnome is it's default DE ](*,) )

thank you, oscar wilde.

Hope 'revolution' by darkmatter happens soon.

uh...what? let's hear more.

[ComplexNumber]

It's amazing gnome is the default DE of a distro like Ubuntu.(Though, personally I use Ubuntu because Gnome is it's default DE ](*,) )
because its the best option available. as for having different wallpaper on different workspaces, it simply does not bring any real benefit....especially to those who like to have their desktop looking nice and have the wallpaper in perfect harmony with the theme. the only people who want this option are the tinkermaniacs that think they do for the sole reason that its yet another option to change.

[fuscia]

tinkermaniacs

we prefer 'tweakers', thank you very much!

[ComplexNumber]

fuscia
the 'revolution' that that guy was referring to is this (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=157476).


we prefer 'tweakers', thank you very much!
sorry, i meant tweakers :p

[fuscia]

fuscia
the 'revolution' that that guy was referring to is this (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=157476).

thanks for the link

sorry, i meant tweakers :p

i forgive you.

[papangul]

because its the best option available.
But a bug report not acted upon for six years? Either resolve it or close it.
If the choice of having different wallpapers is provided to supposed 'tinkermaniacs' then what is the problem for others?

[ComplexNumber]

But a bug report not acted upon for six years? Either resolve it or close it.
If the choice of having different wallpapers is provided to supposed 'tinkermaniacs' then what is the problem for others? it wasn't a bug. when a window manager isn't intended to have a feature, thats not called a bug. a bug is when something is intended to do something, but doesn't. also, gnome hasn't used sawfish for years, so it no longer applies to gnome. sawfish is apparently a dead project, which is probably why nothing has been done about it.

If the choice of having different wallpapers is provided to supposed 'tinkermaniacs' then what is the problem for others? because theres no need for unecessary functionality. if the gnome developers acquired that philosophy, a few added bits here and a few added bits there all add up....followed by "just this added bit of functionality here blah blah"....it would end up like the disorganised bloated mess that KDE is now. we don't need that thank you very much. if you want bloat, go and use KDE.

[papangul]

Can't they reject that feature request, citing the reasoning you gave above? It appears from the discussion following the bug(ok 'feature request') report, that the particular feature may be actually implemented in future.

Edit: I know it is not a bug report, but I thought 'enhancement request' reports are also referred to as 'bug reports in bugzilla context.

[ComplexNumber]

well, i can't see any reason for it to be added. wanting more and more unecessary functionality stems from the same diseased thinking that KDE and KDE advocates suffer from.

[fuscia]

well, i can't see any reason for it to be added. wanting more and more unecessary functionality stems from the same diseased thinking that KDE and KDE advocates suffer from.

"one man's disease is another man's excuse to call in sick."

[Jucato]

Couldn't have someone from GNOME closed the report if:
a. it was filed/reported in the wrong place (it's not a bug, as you said); or
b. they wouldn't implement it in the near future;
rather than leave it open for 5 years?

But where do you file petition/requests in GNOME anyway? I thought that you usually do that through the bug reports? (Have no idea, anyway).

It is indeed a window manager feature/issue, so it's Metacity's burden.

@ComplexNumber: do you seriously have to be so rude? Not everyone who goes to this forums is a GNOME-using, KDE-loathing, KDE-bashing person like you. I know you have your rights to free speech, but ever heard of the word "respect"?

[ComplexNumber]

But where do you file petition/requests in GNOME anyway? in the users wiki.

[fuscia]

so i finally figured out how to use openbox as a wm for kde (DOH!) - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=128840

i just figured it out, so it's probably too early to say, but it does seem zippier...and it's got my right-click menu from openbox (this doesn't happen when using openbox, instead of metacity, as a wm in gnome).

[papangul]

in the users wiki.
This is a screenshot of the Gnome bugzilla bug submission page:
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/1662/screenshot0lk.th.jpg (http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot0lk.jpg)

Aren't you really aware of it?

[fuscia]

i have visited the lands of the feature rich and powerful desktop environments and have seen a great light...

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9297/litminscrsm3ue.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=litminscrsm3ue.jpg)

"yes, lord, what was that?" i cried. "use openbox from now on? uh...ok."

[prizrak]

fuscia,
Since no one answered. The difference between a DE and a WM is that a WM only deals with windows. It controls window behavior, placement, size, etc... A DE runs on top of a WM and is a collection of different applications and utilities that are created to work with each other.
If you are using your own WM you will have to install applications that would otherwise be provided with a DE and they might not integrate well together (in looks and functionality). The plus side of course is the customization.
It is indeed a window manager feature/issue, so it's Metacity's burden.

It is not a WM issue in the least, it is a Nautilus issue, since Nautilus is what controls the wallpaper in GNOME.

[fuscia]

fuscia,
Since no one answered. The difference between a DE and a WM is that a WM only deals with windows. It controls window behavior, placement, size, etc... A DE runs on top of a WM and is a collection of different applications and utilities that are created to work with each other.
If you are using your own WM you will have to install applications that would otherwise be provided with a DE and they might not integrate well together (in looks and functionality). The plus side of course is the customization.

thanks for the response, prizrak. i'm still using entry level equipment from five years ago, with bare essential power, so i probably haven't been able to appreciate the integration factor. things like nautilus, gnome-terminal, konsole and kate run so slowly on my machine, that i have opted for the fastest alternatives i can find (patched dillo, sylpheed-claws, mrxvt, feh, etc.). using openbox, on my machine coupled with my excessive impatience, just makes more sense from a functionality standpoint. my new laptop, installed with dapper, will be arriving in the next week sometime, so it will be interesting to look at all the DEs again, with faster (should be at least four times faster/less slow) equipment.

using openbox as a wm for kde and preloading konqueror made a huge difference in konqueror's performance. also, some apps (firefox, opera) did seem to open faster in the kde/openbox combo than in openbox alone, while others (dillo, sylpheed-claws, mrxvt) were slower. given what you've said about integration, i guess that makes sense.

[prizrak]

using openbox as a wm for kde and preloading konqueror made a huge difference in konqueror's performance. also, some apps (firefox, opera) did seem to open faster in the kde/openbox combo than in openbox alone, while others (dillo, sylpheed-claws, mrxvt) were slower. given what you've said about integration, i guess that makes sense.
That is likely due to the fact that all the shared libraries are loaded when KDE loads so that when you open a KDE program it will only load w/e is unique to the application. Of course a lighter/more efficient WM makes windows render faster.

[fuscia]

having a new laptop has made both kde and gnome faster, to the point where speed really isn't an issue anymore. as fenyx pointed out at the beginning of the thread, kde does have scrollable workspaces and can have a right-click menu. what i didn't realize is that i can customize that right-click menu to be just as simple and plain as openbox's right-click menu. this may have turned me into a full blown kde nuthugger. kde can be overwhelming in its choices ('overwhelming' can being good thing) and stumbling into them, little by little, is kind of like having an advent calendar.

[Sushi]

It hasn't been done in Metacity because Havoc Pennington is a demon-ridden sadist. I'd like to meet the rat bastard who decided to use Metacity as the default GNOME window manager and spank him with the flat of a Hattori Hanzo katana.

"this-is-what-you-get-for-pushing-this-crap-at-us! Now go home to your mother!"

[Sushi]

Perhaps the deskbar included in Dapper would also be appealing to you. You can launch by just a few keys or you can select from the history of what you've done.

Has anyone manager to get Deskbar working reliably? On my machine it crashes constantly.

[Sushi]

well, i can't see any reason for it to be added. wanting more and more unecessary functionality stems from the same diseased thinking that KDE and KDE advocates suffer from.

Please: Cut the bull*hit. Your holier-than-thou "KDE sucks!"-attitude is quite annoying.

[Krusty Ruffle]

Personally, I mostly use Gnome, but lately I am looking at other options. When Gnome first started they had really cool things that let me make my desktop so completely not windows that I couldn't help but love it, (like the way it used to check to see what window managers you had installed, & you could change them with a couple clicks in the control panel) Everything could be customised and it wasn't all that hard to figure out. Then 2.0 came out, & I was so dissapointed. It's great that they have developed things like automounting disks, and Nautilus, but when nautilus was beta it had more options that it does now. Also, for a long time it was very hard to use Enlightenment 16 with gnome, alot of those issues have cleared up with the last few revisions of E16, but there are still annoyances, like the way nautilus takes over the desktop, I mean, you can turn it off, but then you lose icons, and there is still some roughness in the way windows are drawn, often overlapping the panel, & gdesklets pop up on top of everything else from time to time....

Soo, I'm looking at KDE, & I'm liking a lot of it, but I have a couple of minor issues that I haven't figured out yet, like: This laptop has a low resolution, and when certain submenus open up they cover the entire screen, blocking everything else so that I can't get past them... I have not been able to find an option to make them scroll... Then there's the thing with the way some apps look, KDE does theme my GTK apps, but not Mozilla??

Oh well...

I think my point is really that it was the way that Linux was so completely different that drew me to it in the first place, but for the last few years it seems like they've been throwing out the good parts to make it more "window-ish" or "Mac-ish"

Personally, i love scrolling through desktops, and most definately being able to use different wallpapers on different desktops, & that gets even better when you can add overlays on top of that, but place them wherever you want. These were the things that drew me to Enlightenment & Linux in the first place.

I don't wish to get in the middle of a desktop argument, I think both major desktops are good alternatives for different people, & ultimately it is the ability to be different that makes people come to linux and stay around. I personally am just biding time until E17 reaches full desktop status and at least a beta stage. Then I will be happy :) 'till then, i just keep hacking together different combinations of things, hoping to one day find that combo that just works for me...

Oh yea, thanks for this thread, barring the occasional childish rudeness it has been quite an entertaining read.

[fuscia]

Soo, I'm looking at KDE, & I'm liking a lot of it, but I have a couple of minor issues that I haven't figured out yet, like: This laptop has a low resolution, and when certain submenus open up they cover the entire screen, blocking everything else so that I can't get past them... I have not been able to find an option to make them scroll... Then there's the thing with the way some apps look, KDE does theme my GTK apps, but not Mozilla??

would shading the windows do what you need (right-click on the bar at the top of the window and select 'shade'. the window will scroll up leaving only the bar.

Oh yea, thanks for this thread, barring the occasional childish rudeness it has been quite an entertaining read.

yeah, this thread went well. the info (thanks especially to fenyx) plus getting a new machine has completely turned me into a kde nuthugger. who knows what'll happen if i can ever get e17 instaled correctly.

[Krusty Ruffle]

would shading the windows do what you need (right-click on the bar at the top of the window and select 'shade'. the window will scroll up leaving only the bar.

na, it was the actual menus themselves doing it....

Anyway, I tried shoving E16 into KDE, & running gnome_panel in addition to kicker. It was actually working out okay, but I blew up something somewhere. After a while of playing around I decided to give xfce a shot, but nothing would work, it was givimg me tons of volume manager errors. I think it may have had something to do with the reason why firefox started getting floating point errors on me, but I'll never know as I reinstalled.

I went with xubuntu this time, then installed gnome & KDE from there...With just a little while of fiddling around I've made some progress with this thing called xfce, & given another day or two of playing with it I may just leave E behind for a while, (at least 'till E17 is farther along).

I am impressed. (Though I don't care for the native file manager to much, but I'm betting that will improve with time)

Thanks again for the thread :)