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Bolthead38
August 26th, 2011, 07:28 AM
Hi everyone: some questions about installing Linux Ubuntu 11.04 "Floss".

Have only just obtained a DVD with Ubuntu and have never used Linux before (had earlier obtained a CD with Linux Mint and tried to parallel-install it with XP3, but bailed out of the installation when Linux Mint was giving no information about what actually it was doing).

Today tried to parallel-install (alongside XP3) Ubuntu, and was astounded at how user-friendly it was. But this state of mind abruptly changed when the "Partition-Formatting" page was reached. Ubuntu said to "move the 'Slider' to indicate the size of partition that you want Ubuntu installed into" (or words to that effect), but could not anywhere see a "Slider". Not knowing what to do, I started clicking on things to try and make the "Slider" appear, and suddenly got dumped onto another page and could not get back to the "Formatting" page!

Could see no way to "bail" from the installation either, so with a sinking heart continued on thinking (fortunately correctly) that perhaps the old XP3 installation disc could be used to remove Ubuntu from the Hard-Drive if Ubuntu either failed to install properly or would not work properly. The XP3 disc has got a very good Formatting system built into it that is easy for even beginners to use.

But then the next thing that was encountered in the Ubuntu installation was either the "Keyboard" or the "Regional/Time" page. Cannot remember which was first, so about the "Keyboard": Ubuntu tells you to tell Ubuntu precisely what kind of keyboard you have got out of a bewildering array of keyboard types. Was at a total loss what to do as did not know what "type" the one I have is.

When you are installing XP3 the keyboard you have is automatically "read" by the installation program. Why on earth does not Ubuntu do this as well?

So then the "Regional/Time" - this area is incredibly oblique. When installing XP3 all you have to do is select your "Time Zone" from a very easy to use "panel" and you need to do basically nothing else.

Why in such areas of Ubuntu are these "Now-You-Have-To-Solve-The-Puzzle" things in the installation system?

As it was, in the end, Linux Ubuntu seemed to have installed okay as per it was seeming to operate alright. For me, a Firewall is top-priority with any install (have installed XP3 probably around a hundred times by now!) as know how crucial they are if you want to be online.

But in Ubuntu could find nothing at all, nowhere, that would show if there was even a Firewall at all! An instructional website about the Linux Ubuntu version that I have said that there was an "inbuilt Firewall" in Ubuntu, but how the heck do you find where it is so you can see it and get access to the configuration control-panel?

Did not even try and go online not being able to find the firewall, so dragged out the battered XP3 installation disc and removed Ubuntu. Have got an ancient PC and am on dial-up so do not need any unnecessary Real Estate on the Hard-Drive.

Definitely want to install Ubuntu, but first of all want to find someone who can, in easy to understand language by way of description, how can a non-Geek correctly "navigate" the "Geeky" areas of the Ubuntu installation procedure that have been described.

Thank you, Linux is absolutely glorious, but to reach absolute perfection Linux Ubuntu needs some Geeks to do some code tweaks with the installation process, and to make it much easier, after installation, to see a Firewall (if the website that says that there is one is wrong, then how the heck can anyone open up their OS to the Web to try and download a Firewall when they havent even got a Firewall! (???) Also, if there is not a Firewall with Ubuntu then that means you have to have another Firewalled OS and a Pen-Drive or something to download one for Ubuntu, but what the heck Linux Firewall for Ubuntu is a Newbie supposed to try and find? As well, how can any Newbie configure a Linux Firewall anyway - have read that there are vast numbers of them and that they are all incredibly powerful and equally incredibly complicated to configure, and than non-Geeks have no hope of being able to configure any of them.

This stuff, for a non-Geek is absolutely bewildering.

Idefix82
August 26th, 2011, 07:35 AM
Dude, what's your problem? Do you really expect people to read lengthy unintelligible descriptions about how "some kind of thingy took you to some kind of thingy" before they even know what you want? Just ask your question, describe your problem in clear terms, describe what you did and what failed and people will help you.

I couldn't quite tell whether the above post was supposed to be a rant, or constructive feedback (in either case, it's in the wrong category), or a request for help. If the latter, then just say what you need help with. That shouldn't need two books.

Bolthead38
August 26th, 2011, 07:55 AM
One more thing: am brand-new to the Linux Ubuntu Forum (only blundered across this Website while crawling around the Web trying to find out what the heck kind of keyboard I had) and only registered a few hours ago.

After registering there was a facility in the "Profile" area where you were supposed to be be able to upload an Avatar, so did this, and everything seemed to have gone okay, but when later I wrote and placed my first "post" on this Linux Website, the "post" seems to have appeared in pretty nice shape typographically but there is no Avatar at the top of it and instead are what appear to be graphics of some kind of "beans"!

This is all very strange, and am unable to understand. Am only new!

critin
August 26th, 2011, 07:57 AM
<<<Ubuntu 11.04 "Floss">>>>

Is this a version of Ubuntu someone remade? I've not heard of it.

My type of keyboard is USA and is usually the default. Usually you'll choose by the country you live in, but also if you have alternate type. Type a few letters in the space and it may find it for you.

I don't worry about a firewall, but you can install one from Software Center after installation I'm sure.

critin

Idefix82
August 26th, 2011, 08:01 AM
I don't worry about a firewall, but you can install one from Software Center after installation I'm sure.


It is already installed.

nothingspecial
August 26th, 2011, 08:04 AM
Default Ubuntu does not require the instalation of a firewall, however you can set one up. Here's a nice explanation. I'd have a look at the whole website as it is aimed at beginners.

http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/security

critin
August 26th, 2011, 08:06 AM
<<It is already installed.>>

Well then,there you go. Nothing to worry about. lol

Thanks..

critin

Bolthead38
August 26th, 2011, 08:09 AM
Idefix82:

Was trying to describe what happened when a non-Geek was trying to install Ubuntu. It was never in any way meant to be any kind of insult to Linux and instead, if you read it again, very clearly stated that I want a Linux Ubuntu OS.

Jagoly
August 26th, 2011, 09:19 AM
Well, I'm not sure how valid some of your points were. For example, when choosing yur time zone, you simply click on where you live, and it adjusts accordingly.

If you have an average English keyboard, then it's probably us keyboard. Any qwerty keyboard with a $ sign on it. So in the us or in Australia, the default is correct. I've never actually installed ubuntu on a different keyboard type (or even physically seen any other keyboard type), so I can't comment on that.

Ubuntu is the easiest operating system to install that I have ever installed. Easier than windows 7 even. And definitely much easier than windows XP.

nothingspecial
August 26th, 2011, 09:34 AM
If you have a normal keyboard, then it's a us keyboard. Any qwerty keyboard with a $ sign on it.

Uk and Ireland layouts are different.

terrykiwi83
August 26th, 2011, 09:40 AM
// Amusing Rant



If you have a normal keyboard, then it's a us keyboard.


Sorry had to laugh at that. How can you refer to a normal keyboard as a US Keyboard? I am assuming that by that you meant 'average' ? and even in that case an average keyboard would probably be Chinese.

// Rant Complete

Idefix82
August 26th, 2011, 09:46 AM
It was never in any way meant to be any kind of insult to Linux

I didn't read an insult. I just had trouble deciphering what you actually want. I come here to help people and not to read long and confused novels. My point was: if you want people to help you, make it easy for them to do so.

Jagoly
August 26th, 2011, 09:59 AM
// Amusing Rant



Sorry had to laugh at that. How can you refer to a normal keyboard as a US Keyboard? I am assuming that by that you meant 'average' ? and even in that case an average keyboard would probably be Chinese.

// Rant Complete

Whoops, I actually did change that to avererage, it must have gotten un-done somehow.


Uk and Ireland layouts are different.

I thought the only difference was that dollar sign was different :-(
I'm a keyboard layout n00b :-)

oldos2er
August 26th, 2011, 04:35 PM
Linux is not Windows. http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

Usually the make/model of keyboard is printed on the bottom of it.

Linux comes with a firewall called iptables, which is installed automatically but not activated because there are no services listening on any ports, hence nothing to block.

https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/installation-guide/i386/index.html

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UFW

http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Natty

jwbrase
August 26th, 2011, 08:42 PM
But then the next thing that was encountered in the Ubuntu installation was either the "Keyboard" or the "Regional/Time" page. Cannot remember which was first, so about the "Keyboard": Ubuntu tells you to tell Ubuntu precisely what kind of keyboard you have got out of a bewildering array of keyboard types. Was at a total loss what to do as did not know what "type" the one I have is.

When you are installing XP3 the keyboard you have is automatically "read" by the installation program. Why on earth does not Ubuntu do this as well?

Ubuntu is not asking what type of physical keyboard is attached to your machine, but rather what keyboard layout you know how to / prefer to type with. It can't automatically detect that because it's asking a question about you, not your computer.


Thank you, Linux is absolutely glorious, but to reach absolute perfection Linux Ubuntu needs some Geeks to do some code tweaks with the installation process, and to make it much easier, after installation, to see a Firewall (if the website that says that there is one is wrong, then how the heck can anyone open up their OS to the Web to try and download a Firewall when they havent even got a Firewall! (???)

As mentioned before, Ubuntu doesn't run any programs by default that will accept requests for connections from the outside, so just getting on the net won't compromise your security. If you don't feel safe even with such reassurances, you can open up a terminal and type "sudo ufw enable" to start up a firewall. (You'll be asked for your password, and it won't give any feedback when you type it, so don't worry, it hasn't frozen at the password prompt, just hit enter when you're done with your password).

If you don't mind making one download without a firewall, or once you've done "sudo ufw enable", you can go to the Software Center and download Gufw, which is a more user friendly graphical interface for the ufw firewall.

kaldor
August 26th, 2011, 09:03 PM
I'm kinda confused about what the OP said about the keyboard and clock. I've installed various Linux distros on many times now, and my keyboard and timezone are always extremely easy to set up. For example, when installing Ubuntu or Fedora, the keyboard is automatically detected and gives a list of other layouts that you may prefer. The timezone selection pops up with a world map where you need to pick where you live. On a default Ubuntu/Fedora install, I simply click the clock in the top panel and change the timezone. What's hard or geeky about that?

I really don't get the "for geeks" mindset, when it really isn't that much different from Mac or Windows in terms of the UI.

MasterNetra
August 26th, 2011, 09:05 PM
...

Today tried to parallel-install (alongside XP3) Ubuntu, and was astounded at how user-friendly it was. But this state of mind abruptly changed when the "Partition-Formatting" page was reached. Ubuntu said to "move the 'Slider' to indicate the size of partition that you want Ubuntu installed into" (or words to that effect), but could not anywhere see a "Slider". Not knowing what to do, I started clicking on things to try and make the "Slider" appear, and suddenly got dumped onto another page and could not get back to the "Formatting" page!

Could see no way to "bail" from the installation either, so with a sinking heart continued on thinking (fortunately correctly) that perhaps the old XP3 installation disc could be used to remove Ubuntu from the Hard-Drive if Ubuntu either failed to install properly or would not work properly. The XP3 disc has got a very good Formatting system built into it that is easy for even beginners to use.

...


First the slider is the small separator directly in the middle of the two partitions shown, I can understand your confusion it threw off at first myself. You click directly in the middle and while holding the left mouse button still you drag left or right to resize. Hopefully it will be more obvious in the coming release 11.10 which will release in October of this year.

As for exiting, as long as the formating/partitioning and installation in general hasn't begun you can just hit the power button and it will be fine. It won't do anything to the system until after the confirmation section which is after partitioning.

Megaptera
August 26th, 2011, 09:31 PM
Whoops, I actually did change that to avererage, it must have gotten un-done somehow.



I thought the only difference was that dollar sign was different :-(
I'm a keyboard layout n00b :-)

In the UK we have and $. I guess in Ireland it's the Euro symbol and another one, though I don't know which.

ubun2geek
August 26th, 2011, 09:49 PM
You are wondering where the slider is?
Simply find the division between the XP hardrive and the spot where it says ubuntu and drag that to the desired spot. When I installed, I did not think it was to hard. (And I was a Windows guy)

critin
August 27th, 2011, 07:06 AM
You are wondering where the slider is?
Simply find the division between the XP hardrive and the spot where it says ubuntu and drag that to the desired spot. When I installed, I did not think it was to hard. (And I was a Windows guy)

Funny, I've not ever been presented with the 'slider' order when installing a side-by-side. It's always done it's own resizing by default. (unless I choose another way)

I wonder why it doesn't have some sort of target so it can be easily found? New users won't know to simply point to the middle. That's not too friendly. IMO. Luckily it's never come up for me.

I've always found ubuntu quite easy to install.

critin

The Cog
August 27th, 2011, 04:01 PM
I came across a machine with a US keyboard once. It's astonishing how many keys they have in the wrong place. Pretty-much everything except the letters. But that's not as bad as trying to use a UK keyboard with a program/OS that assumes you have a US keyboard. It can take a lot of trial and error to find the right key.

I think that Windows just assumes that if you have chosen a particular timezone then you must have that kind of keyboard. Of course, it will be right most of the time. I don't believe that Windows detects the keyboard layout. If it were detectable, there would be no need to ask.

The question about whether to keep the hardware clock on local time or on UTC is a question that Windows users will never have seen. Because Windows developed from a single-user OS, it doesn't have any concept that its local timezone might not be the time. So it always runs the hardware clock on local time. Unix on the other hand, always keeps the hardware clock on UTC. In Linux, it is normal to keep the hardware clock on UTC, but it is possible to choose to keep the hardware clock on local time so that windows can show the right time when you are dual booting. A windows only guy wouldn't know this, and so the question about the hardware clock will of course confuse him.

Linux is different to windows. Some of those differences can be confusing or frustrating if you don't understand the reasons for them. Sometimes there are good reasons why things are different, sometimes it's just because things have always been done differently. There are both cultural and technical differences. Don't assume that wherever there is a difference, Windows is right and Linux is wrong - it's not that simple.

Jerry N
August 27th, 2011, 04:38 PM
I came across a machine with a US keyboard once. It's astonishing how many keys they have in the wrong place. Pretty-much everything except the letters. But that's not as bad as trying to use a UK keyboard with a program/OS that assumes you have a US keyboard. It can take a lot of trial and error to find the right key.

About 15 years ago the first time I worked on a computer for a Mexican minister, I had to deal with Spanish language Windows 3.1 and I don't speak or read Spanish. To complicate things further, I was using a US keyboard layout. I muddled through it though.

flyfishingphil
August 28th, 2011, 07:27 AM
Bolthead.
Here's a long version answer to your post:

First, welcome to Ubuntu. but what is Ubuntu "Floss"? The 11.04 is called the Natty Narwhal. Sounds like you may have gotten a "doctored" version from somebody. You can download an entire, pretty much up to date version, at Ubuntu.com and not have one that somebody decided didn't need some parts and added others.

Second, don't feel bad about not knowing how to ask questions so anyone can read them. Kind of hard to do when you don't know what you're doing. (I've been using Ubuntu since 9.10 and still have problems figuring out how to ask some questions to get answers.)

Regarding the keyboard question. Recently installed 11.04 as only OS and came across that same series of questions. Because it is so widely used it wants to know the "setup" of your keyboard so it responds properly to the key hit. Easy to do, just take your time and answer questions as they come up. (Also gives you a chance to learn more about the ops system as you play with it.)

Regarding time zone. Again, easy to do, just go one step at a time and it takes a few seconds to get everything set up.

Regarding Firewall. When I first stepped in to Ubuntu, alongside XP, I contacted Avast tech support and asked about anti-virus/firewall for use with Ubuntu. The techs there said that what comes with Ubuntu is more than strong enough to take care of everything. The reason for that is Ubuntu (Linux) home OS's aren't that widely used and every time you change something you change the "baseline code of operation" meaning the virus creeps and hackers have to know everything you have done to your OS before they can write something to attack it. That is unlike Win$ where everything is written to match the "baseline code of operation" that makes it easy to write /break into the computer.

On the partition settings you click on the bar between the partitions, hold down the left mouse key and slide it to whatever size you want. If you don't do this Ubuntu will set a given amount of space for itself. I don't remember the formula, it uses a minimal amount in a side by side install, but I never had any problem with the size when I started.

Regarding a side by side. It didn't take very long for me to drop that and go just Ubuntu. Did that with 10.04 and recently did a clean install of 11.04. Don't even have VBox with XP anymore. Everything I need is available, free, from either the Ubuntu Software center or Synaptic Package. A few things don't work with Ubuntu, like my SE cell phone, but I think I can survive without that connection.

What I found worked best, when it comes to asking questions, is do a full info signature on your system so when you post the viewers can see what you are working with. Write down the steps you try, as you try them, then, if it doesn't work, give that info in your post. (You may want to stop by a library, or a friends place with hi speed internet, and download and cut to disc the Ubuntu Users Manual. (WELL WORTH THE EFFORT!)

Quick understanding of some of the directions: Lots of folks forget this is Absolute Beginner, and tear into how to do something while forgetting the one asking may not know where to start. When you get instructions like "apt-get-install gklsomething" you need to go to Applications, Accessories, Terminal and, when the window opens, start your line (usually) with "sudo". (Note: Depending on which desktop you are using in Ubuntu just remember you are looking for Terminal to tell the program what you want installed, etc.)

By no stretch of the imagination am I "computer literate", 64 YOA and had a head injury so I don't retain much of what I read, but with a little playing around I think Ubuntu is actually easier to use than Win$, has fewer threats from viruses/trojans, and is a lot more fun to learn.

Hope this helps and don't be afraid to ask questions. Just try to use program names, effort being done and what it is doing, or not doing right, that you want to learn more about.

3rdalbum
August 28th, 2011, 10:31 AM
Misunderstanding firewalls is a pet peeve of mine :-)

Incoming Ports

An earlier poster said this as well, but by default Ubuntu doesn't need a firewall. A firewall is a piece of software or hardware that prevents a computer's incoming ports from being contactable from outside the computer or outside the network. If no programs are listening for incoming connections on incoming ports (as they won't be in a normal Ubuntu install), then they are not contactable anyway; a firewall will neither help nor hinder.

Outgoing Ports

When you open Firefox or your e-mail client, it is not opening an incoming port. It is only opening an outgoing port; Firefox can only receive information from the computer which it has opened the outgoing port to. In other words, if you open an outgoing port to www.google.com, then Google is the only party that can communicate to your computer on that port.

Firewalls typically don't touch outgoing ports either, because they are not a security problem that can be fixed by a firewall. Outgoing ports are only a security problem if your computer has been compromised by a piece of malware trying to communicate back to its creator (in which case, the malware will just turn off your firewall anyway) or if the computer on the other end is malicious and sends back malicious data (which a firewall will not protect against anyway - firewalls just block ports, they have no knowledge of specific attacks).

Hardware Firewalls

And to make things even easier, most broadband modem/routers already have an incoming firewall built-in and enabled by default. This firewall works exactly as well as any other firewall; actually, it works better because it protects your whole network, and so far there are no pieces of malware that are complex enough to be able to turn your router's firewall off.

To sum up: Ubuntu doesn't listen to any incoming ports by default, so attackers can't connect to it. Outgoing ports can only be used by the computer you've willingly connected to, so they're not a problem anyway. If you feel naked without a firewall, check your router/modem - you're probably firewalled already (and of course, you don't need two firewalls as the "inner" one will not receive any incoming connections).

Ubuntu doesn't provide a GUI for its firewall because it's simply a level of complexity that isn't necessary, and isn't terribly useful. If you know you have a need for a single-computer firewall, you can surely use it at the command-line or install some GUI software for managing it (such as gUFW).

Bolthead38
August 28th, 2011, 05:04 PM
flyingfishPhil: download Ubuntu on dial-up!

Iowan
August 28th, 2011, 09:46 PM
After registering there was a facility in the "Profile" area where you were supposed to be be able to upload an Avatar, so did this, and everything seemed to have gone okay, but when later I wrote and placed my first "post" on this Linux Website, the "post" seems to have appeared in pretty nice shape typographically but there is no Avatar at the top of it and instead are what appear to be graphics of some kind of "beans"! The picture is there, but you added a profile picture instead of an avatar.

flyfishingphil
August 29th, 2011, 12:46 AM
flyingfishPhil: download Ubuntu on dial-up!

Have any friends on hi speed? If not you can personal me with an address and I'll send you a copy of the 11.04 I downloaded and installed. (No charge, unless you volunteer to send me the postage cost!:wink:)

grahammechanical
August 29th, 2011, 01:50 AM
The 11.04 install process is very simple compared to what it was like four years ago. Check out the guides in this link.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowtoPartition

Go to Resizing Partitions and look for the Resize/Move /device/sdc 1 image. Do you see the little black triangles or arrows to the either side of the green rectangle? They are the sliders.

Did you not see the cancel or back buttons? When I first installed Ubuntu I was able to back out of the install process. And I did back out because I was nervous.

I think the Ubuntu install process is getting very intelligent. It adjusts the options according to what it finds on your system.

A Windows install would not give you the option to install alongside another operating system. It would simply overwrite whatever is on the disc. Ubuntu has to work with a variety of hardware and many languages. Windows is usually pre-installed, so the seller has opportunity to make sure everything works before the machine is offered for sale.

Regards.

Miljet
August 29th, 2011, 01:50 AM
For those wondering what Ubuntu Floss is, rest easy. Floss simply refers to Free-Libre Open Source Software. And I do believe that all variants of Ubuntu fall under that catagory.

jfbooth
August 29th, 2011, 01:56 AM
Have got an ancient PC and am on dial-up so do not need any unnecessary Real Estate on the Hard-Drive.

You do not describe your PC. It COULD be that UBUNTU is not the best choice for you. Perhaps KUBUNTU or XUBUNTU. The reason I mention this is UBUNTU is the 'big' version and the others use less resources. If your PC is limited on memory/disk space one of the lesser distributions may be best for you.

As mentioned .. for KEYBOARD just select US (if you live in the USA). For Time Zone .. I can't remember the routine .. but recall it is fairly obvious what to pick .. I think it presents a map .. doesn't it?

Of course many have installed/updated Linux over a dialup. I just thought I would mention .. once you get a distro installed, there is very likely some huge chunks of updates waiting for you. I don't recommend you skip updates because they take a long time. They are pretty crucial. I think you are looking at a few overnight downloads via UPDATE MANAGER.

As a newbie .. I think you did an eloquent job of starting this thread.

Finally, I cannot imagine what Ubuntu FLOSS is. I did a GOOGLE on UNBUNTU FLOSS and found:


FLOSS (free/libre/open-source software)

I know LIBRE to be a Linux OFFICE SUITE ... similar to MS OFFICE ... or OPEN OFFICE. I am lost on UBUNTU FLOSS.

mikodo
August 31st, 2011, 02:20 AM
Hullo everyone. Have been a bit bad and been whacked over the knuckles a few times by the Ubuntu Forum Moderators viz some posts I tried to place (the Moderators removed them all!).

Anyway, this (writing) is just an experiment to see if still am allowed to put posts here any more - was unable to do so last night, but was pretty drunk so that might be the reason for the incapability!

Maybe take your beans and just make and drink coffee, until you know your way around linux a little more. Then go ahead and drink the other (whatever your pleasure), you'll still break the system sometimes, but by then hopefully, you will have a good backup in place and know enough to fix things. We all break the OS at first, but that is how we learn!


See this thread for lots of good guides/tutorials on Gnu/Linux/Ubuntu:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=801404

Good Luck!

ubun2geek
September 4th, 2011, 09:17 PM
seriously, I do not know how one could have difficulty with ubuntu installation. If you would like some step by step help, pm me.
@mikodo:
this is not a forum for discussing beer. i am sure there is one somewhere if your forte lies in that direction. just no this one.