Do we really need windows fonts in a GNU/Linux forum?

[Bazon]

This may not have been the best way to ask (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1043344&postcount=6). So to put that clear:
The question I asked in the title has two aspects:

1. A funny fact: MS-fonts in a Ubuntu forum.
2. A thing which could cause trouble: Are the fonts good readable from all Systems?

This discussion shouldn't be about the first aspect (open source / closed source questions, see here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=176622)), but on the second (practical questions).

Initial post:

Hello everyone!

When you look at the source code of this or any other forum page, you will see this:

body
{
background: #816647;
color: #000000;
font: 11px verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
margin: 0px 0px 0px 0px;
padding: 0px;
} (*)
When you look at the fonts: Appart from sans-serif, these are all windows-fonts AFAIK.
I struggled a bit to get good looking fonts in Dapper beta and it's alright now, but on some Live-CDs this forum is really looking bad!

Can't we put the focus a bit more on native GNU/Linux fonts?

(*)PS: Wouldn't it be better to use an external stylesheet? Could reduce forum-load maybe. But OK, that's another question, I'll ask that later again...

[MiniJames]

Yeah :P I thought that was a bit funny. I think that the fonts should be changed to GNU/Linux counterparts, but realisticaly It makes little difference to me either way. I had to install the mscore fonts for work :/

[Phlosten]

The fonts should suggest basic families that exist on all platforms.
I would think there are a lot of people with busted Ubuntu installs using their Windows install/pc to access the forums to get help.

[Zotova]

Having said that though: how far do you go with all this?

Why not use an open source free forum? (As far as I know vBulletin is not open source). I'm sure the list could go on.

[Bazon]

Having said that though: how far do you go with all this?

Why not use an open source free forum? (As far as I know vBulletin is not open source). I'm sure the list could go on.
I didn't meant this to be an ideology, but a practical question:

It should be possible to view this forum in good readable font from a fresh Ubuntu install as well as from any GNU/Linux Live-CD (which you also need some time for some administration stuff....)

And apart from that, supporting so many windows fonts and so less default GNU/Linux fonts is just ridiculous here. :)

The fonts should suggest basic families that exist on all platforms.
I would think there are a lot of people with busted Ubuntu installs using their Windows install/pc to access the forums to get help.Yes, that's exactly what I mean! (but in particular from Linux of course...)

[matthew]

I'm speaking in this post as a user, not as staff...

I voted: Who cares? Because, frankly, I couldn't care less which fonts are being used. Can I read what is written here? Great, that's all I need. The transfer of information is far more important to me than the silly, niggly details like which fonts are being used.

---On a side note, but related to the original topic---

Seriously, is there a way to bring up disagreements with how these forums exist that is more antagonistic than the method being used here? If so, I don't see it. Could you not have said, "I wonder if there's a way to use more open source fonts on these forums..." rather than immediately going for the "what exists is wrong/evil/bad" approach and putting everyone on the defensive?

Notice how I just did the same thing and how it made you feel? It's not a pleasant experience, is it? Now for a more appropriate way to bring up the subject...

I think in the future you will find people's responses more positive if you begin a discussion by asking a question in a non-threatening manner.

Perhaps we could ask for the same information you desire in this manner: "I noticed that the fonts being used by these forums are primarily MS fonts. Is there a way we might be able to incorporate more open/free fonts or is this perhaps just the nature of the software being used? I have read the sticky thread about why a closed-source software is being used to run the forums and while I would like to see us using free/libre software, if nothing of that sort is available then I'm glad there is a closed source solution. With no other viable option at hand is there a way we can make/adapt what we are already using to be as open as possible, such as including more open fonts?"

I still think it's a silly topic, but at least wording it that way you are less likely to be treated like a troll (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1032104).

I'm speaking in this post as a user, not as staff...

[Bazon]

@mattew:
I agree, sorry.
Could you delete the poll, please? (I can't edit it and it also reflects an offensive way to ask...)

[matthew]

@mattew:
I agree, sorry.
Could you delete the poll, please? (I can't edit it and it also reflects an offensive way to ask...)I can't delete it, only an admin could do that. I can close the thread, though. Do you want me to do that?

BTW, thank you for being so positive and responsive. :)

[Bazon]

As long as it doesn't get to a point where it leads into a open/closed source discussion leading nowhere I don't think it needs to be closed. IMHO.

So let me take a new start:

After a my first Dapper install (which was Flight 6), the fonts in this forum looked bad, it was really not pleasant to read it.
So I did some research and tweaked some things with the fonts, I can't remember what exactly it was, but now it looks alright.

I forget all about that, but today I was reminded by another post (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1042995&postcount=4).


What I was worrying about is:
Do the fonts in this forum look good with a fresh installed dapper?

If yes, then it's alright for me, but as I said, when I installed it, it didn't, it was a pain to read, that is what I was worrying about.
I can't test it as I don't know exactly what steps I have done to tweak the fonts and I'm also don't want to make a fresh install.

But if someone has tested that with a recent, not font tweaked dapper, I am happy and pacified. :)

[Bazon]

I edited the initial post now to put things clear and left the inital post, but grayed out, so that things posted afterwards are understadable.

I hope it's a better thread start now. :)

[matthew]

I edited the initial post now to put things clear and left the inital post, but grayed out, so that things posted afterwards are understadable.

I hope it's a better thread start now. :)That looks good. Thank you. I hope a good and profitable discussion ensues.

[ubuntu-geek]

Interesting since the fonts are default in VB i've never actually looked to replace them. The forums will now use "Bitstream Vera Sans" for Linux users.

[K.Mandla]

I've tried to move away from the MS fonts too when I build Web sites. I know some of them are some sort of quasi-free status, but I don't like pinning a visitor to a particular font -- especially if it's proprietary to a particular company.

Be that as it may, I think the site looks great, regardless of the font.

[imagine]

I've tried to move away from the MS fonts too when I build Web sites. I know some of them are some sort of quasi-free status, but I don't like pinning a visitor to a particular font -- especially if it's proprietary to a particular company.You could also just use "font-family: sans-serif;" without specifying a certain font.

[angrykeyboarder]

I've tried to move away from the MS fonts too when I build Web sites. I know some of them are some sort of quasi-free status, but I don't like pinning a visitor to a particular font -- especially if it's proprietary to a particular company.

Be that as it may, I think the site looks great, regardless of the font.

So you don't specify a font on your web pages? Or do you just go with the basic "serif" and "sans-serif" designations?

Most all fonts are produced by a particular company. The ever popular Bitsteram Vera Open Source Fonts are produced by... Bitstream (http://www.bitstream.com/font_rendering/products/dev_fonts/vera.html).

And despite what anyone might think of Microsoft, the fact is, they've been praised by many font fanatics for producing (as the the company intended) about the best possible fonts for viewing on a computer screen as well as looking pretty good in print.

They are about the only fonts I regularly use anywhere. The only "decent" fonts for X Window are the previously mentioned Bitstream font as well as the DejaVu fonts which are based on Bitstream Vera.

The rest of them pretty much suck, imo.

[Bazon]

*up*

IMHO, this is still an issue. Two things that reminded me:

1. As I changed to Xubuntu, the fonts of this site looked really crappy.
(At least the positive thing was, I learned about using the ~/.fonts.conf file [which seemed to be the only thing which has an influence on firefox])

2. The new ubuntu font looks awesome. So I set it as standard Sans Serif font and I am happy for each site I see that without having to set site specific chrome settings in Firefox...


So my proposed solution is:
Just use sans-serif as font-family (which looks good on any system).
(And let the user choose his sans-serif font in his browser if he wants to.)

[lisati]

May this 5 year old thread rest in peace.

[s.fox]

Additional - As per my understanding when the new forum upgrade & theme goes live it will use the official ubuntu font.

Please see this (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1754640) sticky for more information on the subject. :)