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awi
May 20th, 2011, 06:52 AM
I've seen several "young" threads being closed by the staff. Oddly, most of them where threads critizising Ubuntu.
Are those threads closed for some special reason? Is there a policy somewhere that describes why? Or is it arbitrary to the forum moderator?

Elfy
May 20th, 2011, 08:08 AM
Thread Closing: Staff are not required to do so, but are requested to post an explanation in a thread that is closed when time permits. This is a non-exhaustive list of reasons a thread may be closed, but will give the general idea:

The thread has run it's course and posts have begun repeating themes
The thread has degraded into an argument
The thread topic is a duplicate of another current and active thread
The thread is very old.


http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy

If you're intimating at censorship that doesn't happen. Threads might get jailed if they break the CoC.

If you're talking about threads in Testimonials - that forum is not for debate - but it get's used like that and threads get closed.

If you're not talking about any of those then an example might help.

awi
May 20th, 2011, 02:05 PM
Thank you for the link, according to the policy:


Thread Closing: Staff are not required to do so, but are requested to post an explanation in a thread that is closed when time permits. This is a non-exhaustive list of reasons a thread may be closed, but will give the general idea:

The thread has run it's course and posts have begun repeating themes
The thread has degraded into an argument
The thread topic is a duplicate of another current and active thread
The thread is very old.



This is one I was posting in, that got closed recently:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1747805&page=3


Before posting there, I did a search for posts related to Unity and Ubuntu 11.04, because I wanted to share my opinions also, and I also saw a couple of threads closed, that were also talking about they dislikes on Natty.
I guess the staff is aware that we are participating for the sake of contributing to ubuntu, otherwise I would just change distro or change forums or just not say anything.

Elfy
May 20th, 2011, 02:31 PM
That thread was posted by the OP 2 weeks ago, they've not been back since. As can be seen from the heading of the forum


This space is provided for users to post their reviews of Ubuntu. We understand the user experiences are varied and ask the community to use this section for feedback and improvement. Please do not use this section for support questions, bug reports, or debate.

Nothing to do with unity - this time it's unity - next time it'll be something else, last time it was another something else. There's always something on the 6 month release ...

Personally I don't use unity - have no real opinion of it either way to speak of.

Tamlynmac
May 20th, 2011, 04:45 PM
awi
Are those threads closed for some special reason? Is there a policy somewhere that describes why? Or is it arbitrary to the forum moderator?

Excellent question.

For quite some time (in my posts), I've pointed out the header in the T&E. It states:

This space is provided for users to post their reviews of Ubuntu. We understand the user experiences are varied and ask the community to use this section for feedback and improvement. Please do not use this section for support questions, bug reports, or debate.

Note the last word in the header. Unfortunately, the staff have permitted debating in that section and now once again it has become normal activity. The debating that takes place in the T&E has been addressed numerous times in this section of the forums.

At one point, there was a forum group that was assigned to monitor the T&E (T&E team). Have no idea if that group still exists. Solutions such as making the section "read only" were discussed and the forum's final decision was to implement the T&E team.

It remains the only (I believe) non-support section where one is issued beans for posts/threads. Even this sticky (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1343965) identifies that the T&E is not a support section. I honestly believe that the T&E (based on the header) should be "read only". That way members could openly share feedback without the intimidation factor. Either that or change the header to permit unrestricted debating (within the COC guidelines).

The few members that post there unknowingly, immediately become aware that the header is not strictly enforced. Should a member post a thread in that section with the intent of sharing feedback - they are often placed in a position of defense. Almost any negative statement made regarding the OS, is questioned, defended and open to debate/argument.

One could easily be confused by forestpiskie's response.

If you're talking about threads in Testimonials - that forum is not for debate - but it get's used like that and threads get closed.
Why does it get used for debate, when the staff knows it's being used for debate and why isn't the sectional header enforced regularly? Perhaps, the answer lies more with the members than the staff. Regardless, of the motives it appears somewhat disingenuous to define (in the header) that the section is not for debate, yet permit debate to take place. Then close threads in what appears to be a some what arbitrary manner.

I don't believe censorship is the intended goal for thread closures in the T&E. Only that the staff is placed in a compromised position when using the debate argument to close a thread. The concept that certain debates are acceptable, while others result in thread closure, will continue to raise questions such as yours. IMHO the solution is quite simple, the staff should specifically define what is permitted in the T&E and notify all members of said decision. Altering the T&E header as required.

Just my $0.02, for what it's worth.

Elfy
May 20th, 2011, 04:57 PM
. I honestly believe that the T&E (based on the header) should be "read only". That way members could openly share feedback without the intimidation factor.I couldn't agree more with this. I've agreed with this on more than one occasion ...



It remains the only (I believe) non-support section where one is issued beans for posts/threads.This is something else that I've taken issue with - on more than one occasion ...

I think mostly that it's not somewhere many of us go often, I tend to wander by once a week or so.

Of course - twice a year that particular sub-forum gets more traffic than normal, hence there's more threads getting 'caught' as such.


(All personal opinion and not staff opinion)

Tamlynmac
May 20th, 2011, 08:27 PM
forestpiskie

Unfortunately, it appears we are in the minority. :)

Just seems logical that the forums would make a decision on the T&E and eliminating questions regarding thread closures. Many of my posts there end with the statement "I will not debate in this section".

I can imagine a new member posting in that section (for the first time) and after sharing their feedback, realize they have immediately been placed in a defensive position. I've noticed a couple of recent threads where the OP remarked on the fact that the section was theoretically intended for the sharing of experiences and not for aggressive debating.

I don't envy you guys & gals that are in the position of closing threads in that section. As it appears your either showing favoritism or deliberately censoring threads and if you use the header as the motive, even more questions arise. As I stated, I don't believe the staff intentionally censors any threads. But can imagine the reaction of members to a thread closure in that section (example: the OP of this thread). Seems a no win situation for the staff. ](*,)

Thanks for responding.

Nightstrike2009
May 20th, 2011, 11:05 PM
I recently left these forums because I believe censorship is in place here, users leaving these forums are entitled to feedback, a lot of threads closed are negative of ubuntu ideas or "positive critism" still these threads are closed because of what I believe to be proubuntu/prounity active censorship, threads containing praise are far larger before they are closed iam a member of several linux forums and the others have no issue, a fact I will remember has now I will not recommend this forum to anyone.:@

bodhi.zazen
May 20th, 2011, 11:30 PM
I recently left these forums because I believe censorship is in place here, users leaving these forums are entitled to feedback, a lot of threads closed are negative of ubuntu ideas or "positive critism" still these threads are closed because of what I believe to be proubuntu/prounity active censorship, threads containing praise are far larger before they are closed iam a member of several linux forums and the others have no issue, a fact I will remember has now I will not recommend this forum to anyone.:@

These forums are hands down the largest and most active forums of any of the linux distros and we believe it is do to our enforcement of the Code of Conduct.

Yes these are in fact moderated forums, and you agreed to such moderation when you registered your account.

Yes, we focus on support, if you want to debate, use the Café or Recurring discussions, but keep it out of the support sections.

Negative comments along the lines of "Ubuntu Sucks" or "I hate unity" are neither constructive criticism or support questions, often result in trolling, and so yes they will often be closed, usually when we get complaints.

The staff here does not police each and every thread or post, in fact we take action the vast majority of the time only after there is a complaint. Sometimes I find spam or a violation of the Code of conduct before it is reported.

Please keep in mind, the purpose of these forums is to provide a place for Ubuntu support, not debate Unity, or "Ubuntu Sucks !!!!". Again, we do provide space to do so in the Café or the Recurring Discussions, but only if there are no violations of the code of conduct, there are no complaints, etc.

More often then not, on these busy and active forums, a comment such as negative feedback, not constructive criticism, but negative feedback results in a thread full of trolling comments, insults, and violations of the code of conduct which we then have to clean up.

A similar post on other forums may go unnoticed for months.

tgm4883
May 20th, 2011, 11:43 PM
I'd also point out that censorship would be the outright deleting of posts. These are closed and still available for the public to see. Instead of censorship it looks like they are closed for the reasons already specified.

Elfy
May 21st, 2011, 12:14 AM
I'd also point out that censorship would be the outright deleting of posts. These are closed and still available for the public to see. Instead of censorship it looks like they are closed for the reasons already specified.

Thank you tgm4883.

That more or less sums up what I was trying to say/alluding to - it's been a very long day and sometimes the intricacies of language elude one.

I'd say that the point has been raised and answered in an honest manner.

There appears to be little point in keeping the thread open as it is one that's been answered to the best of our ability.

If the OP thinks that the questions's not been been dealt with in such a manner I point them to the Resolution Centre (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=123) where they can discuss the thread closure with an admin.