I and Ubuntu

[ivra]

Hi,

I am Ubuntu user since 5.04.

It was me awhile to get used to the names of all my programs and how the OS works. And it was not easy to make the transition from MS Windows. After 6.06 came out we decided all the computers in the NGO, in which I work to go under Ubuntu. My wife started using Ubuntu as well. With the new concept of Gnome and the development of Unity I feel confused.

I work with many documents at the same time and at various workplaces, which is quite difficult with U concept.

My colleagues feel the same way. We do not have time to learn new things, we want to be able to work with our computers.

If Canonical has decided to earn money from mp3, this is OK. I do not know how U Shell will be accepted by other companies and organizations that use Ubuntu.

For now, I and the organization in which work sticking to 10.04. And we start looking for options related to Gnome 2x.

Please do not advise ме to use another desktop. We have learned to use GNU / Linux with Gnome 2x and we like it. We are not teenagers.

Sincerely,
ivra

[mikewhatever]

Well, you shouldn't have any problem with Gnome2 and Ubuntu 10.04 support for another 2 years, but beyond that time, who knows, perhaps Gnome2 will still be supported by some distros.

From Gnome3 FAQ: http://www.gnome3.org/faq.html

What will happen to the old version of GNOME?

GNOME 2 had a long life, and parts of it became difficult to maintain over that period. As a result, continued releases of the entire GNOME 2 desktop was never a practical option for the GNOME Project, and several parts of the old GNOME 2 desktop will not receive new releases after GNOME 3 is released. The traditional GNOME 2 desktop will not disappear overnight, however: releases of GNOME 2 will continue to be supported by distributions for years to come.

Change is the essence of life, whether we like it or not.

[akand074]

Gnome dropped support for Gnome 2. There is no reason for Ubuntu to continue supporting it. Ubuntu would have used Gnome 3 instead of Unity on the 11.04 release had they not had some disagreements. But either way, it's not beneficial for Canonical to support Gnome 2 themselves, and I'm sure most other distributions will agree (at least eventually). Fedora and OpenSuse already adopted Gnome 3.

[ivra]

Hi, mikewhatever, akand074,

Thanks for sharing. But it's hard to understand all the reasons for such a radical change in GUI. There are countries in which organizations are struggling GNU / Linux to take a rightful place in public administration.

At this stage I can not imagine how this could happen with the new vision of Gnome / U shells. It seems that distributions like Red Hat and Novell Linux, SUSE Linux Enterprise will continue to offer Gnome 2x at least until they reach up to version 2.32.

Best wishes,
ivra

[Perosteck]

My colleagues feel the same way. We do not have time to learn new things, we want to be able to work with our computers.



So you tell us that your NGO colleagues are not able to handle the following:

> There is the dock, click to open app.
> There is the dash. Click to look for apps, or even faster, type 2-3 letters to search.
> There is a menu on the top of the screen.
> There is the keyboard with 2 or 3 helpful keyboard combinations.

Each of which is hardly new on their own.

Isn't it just a lack of confidence? One easily overcome?

[mikewhatever]

Good point, ivra. RedHat and its spinoffs (CentOS, Scientific Linux) will keep Gnome2 supported for a long time indeed.

[buster2209]

Please do not advise ме to use another desktop. We have learned to use GNU / Linux with Gnome 2x and we like it. We are not teenagers

The reality is that Gnome2 is being phased our for Gnome3.

Gnome3 does have a 'graphics fallback' mode will make Gnome3 work and feel much like Gnome2.

The only other option is a different UI. For me Xubuntu is what I am moving too. It feels very much like Gnome2 but also has some other nice features I would have liked to see in Gnome2.

I, like many other core users, feel a sense of abandonment by Canoical as Unity appears to be targeted at the casual user and not the core Ubuntu super user.

[mikewhatever]

Hey, buster2209, does 'the core Ubuntu super user' want/need to be targeted? Can you elaborate on that, and also, perhaps, define you understanding of 'the core Ubuntu super user', cause I don't know who that is. My take is that an experienced Linux user wouldn't be particularly bothered by the move to Unity or Gnome3, since other distros and DEs or custom installations are so readily available.

[buster2209]

Hey, buster2209, does 'the core Ubuntu super user' want/need to be targeted? Can you elaborate on that, and also, perhaps, define you understanding of 'the core Ubuntu super user', cause I don't know who that is. My take is that an experienced Linux user wouldn't be particularly bothered by the move to Unity or Gnome3, since other distros and DEs or custom installations are so readily available.

I define 'the core Ubuntu super user' as a user who uses Ubuntu/Linux 99% of the time. They are used to a mature UI to do work on and are not interested in flashy menus at the expense of usability. They are the users who have persevered with ubuntu through all the good and bad times and contribute to tips and hacks on forums and blogs to aid other individuals in whatever Linux problems they may have. They are not necessarily an experienced Linux user, merely an experienced Ubuntu user.

Maybe targeted was the wrong term. I think I mentioned it (or maybe it was another thread) that it feels like dedicated Ubuntu users are being sidelined in order to attract new less experienced casual users to a glitzy superficial UI.

I'm not a hater of change, or even the concept of Unity, I am just left disappointed in what a let down Unity is.

I'm hoping that Caononical takes on board the feedback they will be receiving over the next few months and make Unity more user friendly.

This (http://teknolegy.blogspot.com/) blog summed up my feeling;


"Unity doesn't work because it takes away choice. It takes away freedom. It destroys individuality. These are all the things Linux is renowned for. These are the real reasons why Linux normally beats Windows into a cocked hat."

[ivra]

Hi Perosteck,

In my organization we have 60 years old linguist. We do not spend our time in Facebook, etc.

I have to work with 5-6 different Calc files at the same time with 2-3 Writer documents and Impress, etc. Unity Shell is not very suitable for this kind of activities from what we tried. Also, not all of us use keyboard combinations.

There are different users with different needs. With the new Shells for Gnome I think that a not inconsiderable part of consumers have been ignored. But this is just my humble opinion.

As I wrote in early: How U Shell will be accepted by companies and organizations which use Ubuntu for biznes and have more than 50 employees with different background at different ages.

Best wishes,
ivra

[StrayEddy]

Hi,

I understand that it's complicated for you and your organization.

Now, at the boot up of your computer, you can choose to use the classic interface (GNOME) instead of Unity.

This will solve your problems ;) (if you want to stay with GNOME)

[kevinharper]

Hi,

I understand that it's complicated for you and your organization.

Now, at the boot up of your computer, you can choose to use the classic interface (GNOME) instead of Unity.

This will solve your problems ;) (if you want to stay with GNOME)

It'll be located at the bottom.

If you have it set up so that it automatically logs on, simply log out, select the classic look and then log back in. I did it... couldn't stand Unity. Maybe I'll like it in the next release.

[mikewhatever]

@buster2209
Don't you think it might be possible that experienced Ubuntu users can find Unity interesting to explore? How about compiz? Don't you think that Unity might appeal to those who like transparency and other effects? I think it's pretty clear that Unity is intended for new and experienced used alike, and fail to see the compelling evidence of mass defection. If you have such evidence, can you share it with the community.

The blog post passage you quoted is a subjective opinion of the author. Let us suppose it's true, and then, can you offer an explanation as to why, with all its choice, Linux desktop is not preinstalled on 90% of PCs sold around the world?

[buster2209]

@buster2209
Don't you think it might be possible that experienced Ubuntu users can find Unity interesting to explore? How about compiz? Don't you think that Unity might appeal to those who like transparency and other effects?

I am aware of the 'Unity fanboy' club and don't mean to **** in anyone else's pot. I am not against Unity. I am pointing out that Unity is very new and doesn't have the customisation level that many Ubuntu users have become used too. You can't customise Unity so I don't see what there is to explore. Compiz and all the nice effects were available in Gnome2.


I think it's pretty clear that Unity is intended for new and experienced used alike, and fail to see the compelling evidence of mass defection. If you have such evidence, can you share it with the community.

The evidence is in the umpteen threads on this forum and umpteen blogs in cyber space....


The blog post passage you quoted is a subjective opinion of the author.

Most of everything we hear and read is a subjective opinion


Let us suppose it's true, and then, can you offer an explanation as to why, with all its choice, Linux desktop is not preinstalled on 90% of PCs sold around the world?

Windows UI came along before a decent stable Linux UI did thus customer loyalty. Windows plays games. I could go on but I don't want to de-rail the thread

[as2000]

Everyone is afraid of change. Just dive in, Unity does not take long to get used to. Try this, sit down with your lunch and go thru Unity. By the time you finish lunch, you will know how it works...:guitar:

[mikewhatever]

@buster2209
While you have many valid points (and probably strong opinions), try and keep in mind the following:
- there is no Unity fanboy club
- Gnome2 is no longer supported by the upstream
- cyberspace evidence can be illusive and easily misinterpreted
- market share reports are not subjective

[akand074]

Hi, mikewhatever, akand074,

Thanks for sharing. But it's hard to understand all the reasons for such a radical change in GUI. There are countries in which organizations are struggling GNU / Linux to take a rightful place in public administration.

At this stage I can not imagine how this could happen with the new vision of Gnome / U shells. It seems that distributions like Red Hat and Novell Linux, SUSE Linux Enterprise will continue to offer Gnome 2x at least until they reach up to version 2.32.

Best wishes,
ivra

I think Canonical/Gnome team are trying to target the consumers over business/organizations in particular. But there is nothing in gnome 2 that you can't do in Unity/Gnome 3. It's just different. Everyone flipped out when Microsoft released Office 2007 because the UI was different. It's much more organized and is nicer to look at and use, but things were moved so they didn't like it. I'm sure a lot of people may not like Unity (at least at first) but people are definitely over reacting. I'm sure most of them would like it after getting used to the changes. Matter of fact they'll probably really dislike gnome 2 if they went back.

[ivra]

Hi, akand074,

I agree with you that it takes time to get used to changes in Gnome / Unity shells. I do not consider myself as overreact. I do not know how many of you use GNU / Linux at work and what kinds of problems could create such a change.

Both UI are in the beginning and may in the future to change things towards a good direction. But it may be a complete failure. And I worry about it. Because at some point must make decisions related to the future using Ubuntu or another GNU / Linux distribution in our NGO.

I think if you managed to grab business / organizations to use GNU / Linux OS (Desktop), this will attract new home users.

Best wishes,
ivra

[mastablasta]

there are plenty other desktops to choose from not to mention distributions and then some more distributions with their customized menu versions (such as mint). I am not a bit upset abotu this. i tried it out seems and interesting interface that needs work. i think we will only be able to judge it in 11.10 or better yet in the next LTS where things should be stable, configurable and working.

[wolfen69]

Any company that would install ubuntu 11.04 instead of 10.04 needs new IT people. Secondly, by the time the next LTS arrives, Unity will be very mature and ready to handle anything.

[akand074]

Hi, akand074,

I agree with you that it takes time to get used to changes in Gnome / Unity shells. I do not consider myself as overreact. I do not know how many of you use GNU / Linux at work and what kinds of problems could create such a change.

Both UI are in the beginning and may in the future to change things towards a good direction. But it may be a complete failure. And I worry about it. Because at some point must make decisions related to the future using Ubuntu or another GNU / Linux distribution in our NGO.

I think if you managed to grab business / organizations to use GNU / Linux OS (Desktop), this will attract new home users.

Best wishes,
ivra

I was going to say exactly as Wolfen69 said. What business would install the brand new 11.04 that has been out for a few weeks. That's absurd. It's only logical for any business to use the LTS only. By 12.04 Unity would have been much more mature and they would have had time to get used to a new UI by then. But again, for particular businesses, particular UIs are better. Hence the appropriate desktop environment/distribution will be used for those particular needs. Canonical didn't make the wrong decision by switching to Unity. You can't expect to create one interface that is perfect for everyone.

[|{urse]

You can't expect to create one interface that is perfect for everyone.

This is exactly the deal here. Unity is easy for anyone laying eyes on their first linux install. I think it's a great idea, I looked at it then installed openbox. I'm glad it's the first thing grandma sees.

[mikewhatever]

Not quite sure I understand how people will get used to the Unity interface by using Ubuntu 10.04. No matter how you turn it, there seems to be no way around learning the new interface eventually. That can be easy or hard, but, I suspect, has nothing to do with Unity itself. If users are excited about the switch, then learning new things will be fun, but if the question at hand is, 'why switch at all?', there will be much complaining, no matter how mature and friendly the interface becomes overtime.

[akand074]

Not quite sure I understand how people will get used to the Unity interface by using Ubuntu 10.04. No matter how you turn it, there seems to be no way around learning the new interface eventually. That can be easy or hard, but, I suspect, has nothing to do with Unity itself. If users are excited about the switch, then learning new things will be fun, but if the question at hand is, 'why switch at all?', there will be much complaining, no matter how mature and friendly the interface becomes overtime.

What I meant is that ITs can learn how Unity works as it develops while the entire business uses 10.04 and then when 12.04 is released they can teach users when they upgrade all their systems. This is in a business situation, where training and such is generally provided where required.

Why switch at all? Because it's better. More efficient. Doing things faster/better = better productivity. And also because support for 10.04/Gnome 2 would be depleted, and in a business, you definitely cannot use an OS with no support.