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HappyLinux
April 20th, 2011, 09:10 AM
I know Ubuntu 11.04 will be coming with Gnome 3 but using the Unity interface.

I've been watching various clips on Gnome 3 and Unity. I don't like Unity and prefer Gnome 3. More specifically, I prefer the Gnome 3 Shell instead of the Unity Shell.

I think in this regard, the Shell is referring to the User Interface. There is Gnome underneath, but the graphic interface and how it handles is different. Could be wrong though.

I also know that when you log into your desktop, you can pick whether to use Unity or Gnome. Does that mean that if I select Gnome, it uses the new Gnome 3 interface?

Just needing some clarification. I'm racking my brain trying to figure this out.

hsoulen
April 20th, 2011, 09:15 AM
I know Ubuntu 11.04 will be coming with Gnome 3 but using the Unity interface.

I've been watching various clips on Gnome 3 and Unity. I don't like Unity and prefer Gnome 3. More specifically, I prefer the Gnome 3 Shell instead of the Unity Shell.

I think in this regard, the Shell is referring to the User Interface. There is Gnome underneath, but the graphic interface and how it handles is different. Could be wrong though.

I also know that when you log into your desktop, you can pick whether to use Unity or Gnome. Does that mean that if I select Gnome, it uses the new Gnome 3 interface?

Just needing some clarification. I'm racking my brain trying to figure this out.

Correct on all counts.

You can select either Gnome or Unity on login but unity is the default.

I have to agree with you about Unity, I can't for the life of me figure out why this would be the default interface... It works fine for Netbooks with 1024x600 but you lose way too much functionality and it just not look good on larger displays...

My two cents, worth one cent.

Hank

tubunu
April 20th, 2011, 09:29 AM
I have to agree with you about Unity, I can't for the life of me figure out why this would be the default interface...

I've been running Unity on my netbook for about 9 months now. And honestly, while I'm a long time Linux user, I still find it confusing. I suppose it will be a lot more confusing for new Linux converts coming from Windows.

I think they'd be better off making Gnome the default, allowing Unity to be selected on login. Then, people would slowly warm up to the idea rather than force something new and counter-intuitive against the wishes of many.

As for the difference between Gnome 3 and Unity. I've been reading up on the topic to educate myself, but I still cannot find any info on why Gnome 3 looks so much like Unity? Is Unity a derivative of Gnome 3? Any insight on that?

hsoulen
April 20th, 2011, 10:47 AM
I've been running Unity on my netbook for about 9 months now. And honestly, while I'm a long time Linux user, I still find it confusing. I suppose it will be a lot more confusing for new Linux converts coming from Windows.

I think they'd be better off making Gnome the default, allowing Unity to be selected on login. Then, people would slowly warm up to the idea rather than force something new and counter-intuitive against the wishes of many.

As for the difference between Gnome 3 and Unity. I've been reading up on the topic to educate myself, but I still cannot find any info on why Gnome 3 looks so much like Unity? Is Unity a derivative of Gnome 3? Any insight on that?

Good read:

http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3930571/Ubuntu-Unity-vs-GNOME-3-Which-is-Better.htm

El Zoido
April 20th, 2011, 11:01 AM
I also know that when you log into your desktop, you can pick whether to use Unity or Gnome. Does that mean that if I select Gnome, it uses the new Gnome 3 interface?


If I understood the announcements correctly then selecting Gnome Desktop instead of Unity will not give you Gnome Shell but rather a desktop looking like the old 2.xx Gnome desktop.

I do hope though that at some point it will be possible to install Gnome Shell, either directly from the repositories or via ppa.

As for what's better I haven't made up my mind yet. Both projects are ambitious but I have not spend enough time testing them yet.
Personally I wouldn't have made that "fork" (yes I know it isn't one, but ditching the Gnome desktop for some "proprietary" approach still irks me).

TheCosmicFrog
April 20th, 2011, 12:16 PM
I know Ubuntu 11.04 will be coming with Gnome 3 but using the Unity interface.


Isn't Unity built on GNOME 2?

mike555
April 20th, 2011, 02:06 PM
Hopfully someone will make a fork ,without Unity, Evolution , Memenu, Mono.

hsoulen
April 20th, 2011, 03:07 PM
Hopfully someone will make a fork ,without Unity, Evolution , Memenu, Mono.

I assume you mean forking Gnome 2.x right? Since the GnomeShell as default in Gnome 3.x is about as irritating as unity!

Meh... Maybe I am just getting old and grouchy.

Hank

CoolJohnB
April 20th, 2011, 03:23 PM
I have tried both under 11.04 and both have their own problems with Gnome 3 you need to learn the various commands, e.g. to shutdown you have to press the Alt key to get that option!

As I understand it 11.04 will come with Unity and Gnome 2.x.x, I am using 11.04 Beta and like it very much although I use it with Ubuntu Classic which is Gnome 2X desktop.

Choragos
April 20th, 2011, 03:32 PM
I thought there was an issue and Unity and Gnome 3 were mutually exclusive?


I have to echo the comments. I recently tried Unity and wasn't really a fan. I'll stick with Gnome 2 as long as possible, then, likely, switch to KDE.

msrinath80
April 20th, 2011, 04:05 PM
I thought there was an issue and Unity and Gnome 3 were mutually exclusive?


I have to echo the comments. I recently tried Unity and wasn't really a fan. I'll stick with Gnome 2 as long as possible, then, likely, switch to KDE.

+1. I prefer XFCE though :)

Frogs Hair
April 20th, 2011, 04:11 PM
It was stated that Gnome 3 would break Unity , but there has been changes made already. Watch for new PPA/s after 11.04 is released .

uRock
April 20th, 2011, 04:41 PM
Moved to Recurring Discussions.

Roasted
April 20th, 2011, 06:00 PM
Serious question about Gnome Shell, as I have not used it in a while now.

How do I switch from one application to another without the use of alt-tab? Do I still have to go to the Activities corner and select the thumbnail of the window in order to bring it to attention, or has some other dock-like feature been enabled so I can change active windows without having the zoom effect happening?

uRock
April 20th, 2011, 06:09 PM
I move things to different desktop spaces and switch to get to them.

beew
April 20th, 2011, 08:48 PM
Actually Gnome Shell turns out to quite nice after playing around with Fedora 15 for a bit.

The interface is slick and it has a few functionalities that work better than Unity, they all seem to relate to the relative ease to focus windows and switch applications. Unity needs to implement similar functions through the Unity bar. Right now it can't even minimize windows. This is very important. In GS I use only one desktop but it seems to be much more flexible and roomy than the multiple desktops in Unity.

It is because of this opening applications isn't as cumbersome as in Unity using the dash. G3 still has icons spread out on the screen but because the ease to switch activities and minimize through tray icons it is a lot more manageable than in Unity.

Also gnome shell makes much better use of the top and bottom panels for tray icons and applets whereas Unity's top panel is pretty useless and all because Mark Shuttleworth wants to copy the stupid idea of global menu from Mac. The global menu has to be the most stupid and useless "feature" in Unity, not only useless but it is a usability disaster unless you don't open multiple applcations and have a small screen. Because of the global menu all kind of poor design decisions would have to be made like the top panel and many weird menu bugs are generated as a result. Whatever tiny good it may have it is vastly outweighed by the bad.

Seeing how GS is working now I think Unity could work nicely too, but the Unity team need to make better choices.

beew
April 20th, 2011, 09:00 PM
Serious question about Gnome Shell, as I have not used it in a while now.

How do I switch from one application to another without the use of alt-tab? Do I still have to go to the Activities corner and select the thumbnail of the window in order to bring it to attention, or has some other dock-like feature been enabled so I can change active windows without having the zoom effect happening?


In the Fedora implementation you click the "activities" button on the top panel. It works much better than the Unity dock.

Roasted
April 21st, 2011, 03:00 AM
In the Fedora implementation you click the "activities" button on the top panel. It works much better than the Unity dock.

I know. My question is, is there a way to avoid this. Reason being, I used Gnome Shell for quite a long time. When I used it, it became sickening to have to continually zoom out, then in. out again. oh, in again. just to switch applications. Once the newness of Gnome Shell wore off and I began to really pick it apart and see its pros, cons, benefits, frustrations, I began to realize I would have probably been a lifer on XFCE if it weren't for Unity introducing something a little less obnoxious.

Sure, Unity isn't perfect. But GS is far from it, as far as I'm concerned.

rgbrown
April 21st, 2011, 07:59 AM
Well, I had been hearing all the rave reviews about Gnome3 and all the trashings that Unity had been getting, so I installed Fedora 15 beta on a partition to compare it.

It feels slick, mostly. I like the activities overlay (or whatever it's called) and the way in which workspaces are managed. I think generally speaking it's very usable, and it's clear a lot of thought

But, Gnome 3 feels sluggish compared with Unity, and the look and feel (theme) is pretty unpleasant. The compositing is less smooth. Massive title bars, ugly fonts, too much wasted space, make it feel a bit amateurish e.g. compare the screenshots below (xournal on unity and gnome 3). Yes I know I could use F11 to get full screen, but you get my point: why waste so much space on a title bar?

When I came back to my Natty install it felt a bit less fancy, but I was much happier. Some features in Unity seem a bit redundant - e.g. the Dash seems like a half-baked combo of the apps and files lenses. But once you are used to a workflow, particularly using super+ keyboard shortcuts, it seems very efficient to me.

And I must say, using Gnome 2 now feels horrible.

3rdalbum
April 21st, 2011, 09:28 AM
Unity needs to implement similar functions through the Unity bar. Right now it can't even minimize windows. This is very important.

WHO minimizes windows by clicking on the taskbar entry? It's unintuitive - you click on the button that's meant to show the program, and instead the program disappears off the screen. There's a guy who's been beating the drum for "click taskbar to minimize" to be put in Unity as an urgent feature; don't know if you're the guy I'm thinking of, but I'd really like to stop hearing this complaint from 0.1% of the Linux user base.

beew
April 21st, 2011, 10:21 AM
WHO minimizes windows by clicking on the taskbar entry? It's unintuitive - you click on the button that's meant to show the program, and instead the program disappears off the screen. There's a guy who's been beating the drum for "click taskbar to minimize" to be put in Unity as an urgent feature; don't know if you're the guy I'm thinking of, but I'd really like to stop hearing this complaint from 0.1% of the Linux user base.

So if you don't use a feature than nobody uses it? What kind of logic is this? I am using the Cairo dock in 10.10 and you can use the icon to both maximize and minimize apps, so do the tray icons in gnome. So apparently Unity is the odd person out and you are saying all the others are catering to 0.1 % of user base?

Fact is I find it a lot easier and more intuitive to switch between application windows in GS than in Unity so that even though I use only one desktop in Fedora I feel less restrictive than in Natty where I use multiple desktops. BTW I spend a lot more time on Unity than on GS so it is not that I am more used to the latter.

Lisimelis
April 21st, 2011, 10:56 AM
Used both unity and Gnome3 and i must say in my little netbook's screen unity seems to be the winner. But people must get that gnome is at 3.0 and Unity is still barely at 1.0 versions and keeps getting better every day, (I installed 11.04 beta 2 on the work netbook and it is rock solid), imagine Unity 3.0!!!!Give the Canonical guys some slack...I am sure the ironing will be smooth and methodical.

HappyLinux
April 21st, 2011, 04:28 PM
I thought there was an issue and Unity and Gnome 3 were mutually exclusive?

I have to echo the comments. I recently tried Unity and wasn't really a fan. I'll stick with Gnome 2 as long as possible, then, likely, switch to KDE.

Whoa, 1 day and already 3 pages of posts in response.

I'm thinking that very same thing. Stick with 10.10 and switch to KDE when the time comes.

HappyLinux
April 21st, 2011, 04:45 PM
All in all, for me, its down to a few things. I'm not the fancy sort of person, so my list of needs is small. Usability and reliability are at the top of my list. So as long as the software works and is easy to use, then I'm fine with it, even if it requires a small learning curve. Oh, and I don't use more than 1 workspace. The most windows I have open is probably 4. Maybe an office document, a folder, maybe playing some music and an internet browser. I never really saw the point in multiple workspaces, unless it's multi-monitor setups.

So to me, even if Unity works, it's not really usable for me. Even Gnome 3 which looks more usable would still be a struggle.

Docaltmed
April 21st, 2011, 05:06 PM
Installed Natty beta 2 yesterday, and have been playing with Unity for a while. To my utter surprise, I really like it!

I had messed about with gnome shell a while back, and had even used it on my work computer for a couple of weeks. I thought gnome shell was really cool then, so I was expecting Unity to look pretty anemic in comparison.

But I took to Unity like a rock to deep water. I can already see how it will actually speed my workflow along.

I'm definitely going to try Gnome Shell again as soon as I can install it without breaking things, because I really did like it. But right now, Unity is looking to be default at chez DocAltMed.

Roasted
April 21st, 2011, 05:43 PM
WHO minimizes windows by clicking on the taskbar entry? It's unintuitive - you click on the button that's meant to show the program, and instead the program disappears off the screen. There's a guy who's been beating the drum for "click taskbar to minimize" to be put in Unity as an urgent feature; don't know if you're the guy I'm thinking of, but I'd really like to stop hearing this complaint from 0.1% of the Linux user base.

I want this feature, being that there are times I have so many things open I'll go through my AWN dock and see what's what. It's nice being able to click once, maximize, ahh I don't want that, minimize, etc.

It doesn't matter if it's 100% or 0.1%. Bottom line is, this lack of a feature is something everybody at some point or another would utilize. It really should be implemented.

HappyLinux
April 22nd, 2011, 09:18 AM
I want this feature, being that there are times I have so many things open I'll go through my AWN dock and see what's what. It's nice being able to click once, maximize, ahh I don't want that, minimize, etc.

It doesn't matter if it's 100% or 0.1%. Bottom line is, this lack of a feature is something everybody at some point or another would utilize. It really should be implemented.

I regularly use that feature whether under Ubuntu or Windows.

CraigPaleo
April 22nd, 2011, 01:04 PM
WHO minimizes windows by clicking on the taskbar entry? It's unintuitive - you click on the button that's meant to show the program, and instead the program disappears off the screen. There's a guy who's been beating the drum for "click taskbar to minimize" to be put in Unity as an urgent feature; don't know if you're the guy I'm thinking of, but I'd really like to stop hearing this complaint from 0.1% of the Linux user base.

I do. You probably just aren't used to it - like me and keyboard shortcuts but I wouldn't suggest doing away with them. :)

I don't think it's confusing. If your window is already on the screen and in focus, why else would you be clicking the taskbar if not to minimise it?

Starlight
April 22nd, 2011, 10:09 PM
I've tried Gnome 3 on Fedora 15 Beta, and Unity on Ubuntu 11.04 Beta 2, here are my thoughts about both of them :)

Generally, both are good, but I think I like Gnome 3 more. The animations on Gnome Shell were much smoother than on Unity (which is weird, because someone else here said that it was the other way around, so I guess it depends on the hardware). I also like Gnome Shell's workspace management much better than the one on Unity. The notifications in Gnome 3 are also really awesome, better than anything else I've seen.

The theme in Gnome 3 looks really nice, but there's one thing I don't like about it. All the interface elements look kind of too tall. Stuff like menu bars, toolbars buttons, etc. seem to use more vertical space than they should. And there are almost no configuration options.

I think I'm going to install Fedora 15 when it comes out, because I really fell in love with Gnome 3, even despite some of the things I don't like there. It's just extremely smooth and intuitive. But I'll keep an eye on Unity and maybe I'll eventually switch to it, because I like to try different things. :)

Roasted
April 25th, 2011, 05:24 PM
I regularly use that feature whether under Ubuntu or Windows.

I do too. Point is, there should be a more intelligent way of switching windows by utilizing the mouse than what I experienced months ago when I used Gnome Shell.

I can only assume nothing in that department has changed? Nobody has really said otherwise...

ratcheer
April 25th, 2011, 06:26 PM
I have tried both under 11.04 and both have their own problems with Gnome 3 you need to learn the various commands, e.g. to shutdown you have to press the Alt key to get that option!

As I understand it 11.04 will come with Unity and Gnome 2.x.x, I am using 11.04 Beta and like it very much although I use it with Ubuntu Classic which is Gnome 2X desktop.

I am trying Gnome3 / gnome-shell and enjoying it very much.

The "proper" way to restart or shutdown from gnome-shell is to log out, first. Then, there will be the little power button icon at the top right, which gives the shutdown options.

Tim

BigSilly
April 25th, 2011, 06:39 PM
Just installed OpenSuse 11.4 with Gnome 3 and Shell myself too, and really enjoying it thus far. A couple of little bugs but nothing killer, and I'm sure it's stuff that will be perfected over the forthcoming weeks.

Next stop - Unity!

ErikNJ
April 25th, 2011, 07:04 PM
I am trying Gnome3 / gnome-shell and enjoying it very much.

The "proper" way to restart or shutdown from gnome-shell is to log out, first. Then, there will be the little power button icon at the top right, which gives the shutdown options.

Tim

You don't have to log out. You can also hold down "alt" and "suspend" becomes "power off." It's not all that intuitive, but it works.

BigCityCat
April 25th, 2011, 07:51 PM
Been using shell via ppa on natty for a couple weeks. Used Unity for a couple weeks. Shell is way better. Already using custom themes. Looks and functions far better. I don't think Unity will ever be as good.

BigCityCat
April 25th, 2011, 07:57 PM
But Ubuntu usabilty is way better than opensuse or fedora. I am staying with Ubuntu

Roasted
April 25th, 2011, 09:56 PM
How does the Gnome Shell PPA stack up to what users on Fedora might see with it?

I'm going to set up a dual boot system later... two 11.04 partitions. One Gnome Shell, one Unity.

I hope to use them both extensively and really iron out the differences from a usability standpoint. I haven't used Gnome Shell since October or something, so for me to dog it now is kind of unfair, even though I'm skeptical anything has changed. But at the same token, you never know!

el_koraco
April 25th, 2011, 10:09 PM
A lot has changed since October. Personally, I found the October mockup to be a lot more sensible. You'll see for yourself.

Roasted
April 25th, 2011, 11:35 PM
A lot has changed since October. Personally, I found the October mockup to be a lot more sensible. You'll see for yourself.

Oh boy... I'm scared. Installing now...

Roasted
April 26th, 2011, 04:15 AM
I'm feeling relatively torn.

I used Gnome Shell this evening for quite a while. I believe the interface is downright sexy. It's simply gorgeous and it runs relatively nice as well. I haven't tested it on old hardware... the best I got right now is a dual core with 2gb of RAM. I'm curious how it runs on netbook spec.

There are things I like from both of them...

Gnome Shell:
- Workspace switcher is much more fluent when used in the overlay.
- Hot corner activities menu is very sexy and predictable.
- The ability to zoom into windows in the overlay is very nice.
- The dock-like quick launch in the overlay is very convenient.
- Applications menu is very efficient.

What I can't stand is the fact I am REQUIRED to overlay to switch applications unless I want to alt-tab. Believe me, I'm an alt-tab fiend. But I just believe there should be an option... SOMETHING... that will allow users to change windows by mouse movement without having to constantly zoom in/out. With the overlay. On the flip side, I suppose this is what AWN/Cairo/Docky are for. So I guess I can't complain too much, right?

Unity:
- No ability to move the proprietary location of the unity bar - what the ****?
- No minimize effect when I click on an already active icon in the unity bar - what the ****?
- While no overlay is kind of a bummer, the lack of the constant zoom effect is kind of nice.
- Applications menu is very well laid out.
- FAST. +111111

While I certainly like both systems, I just can't decide quite yet what I'll use. The zoom thing truly irritates me... I can feel it wearing on my already tired eyes. I can't imagine using it on my work laptop...

23dornot23d
May 3rd, 2011, 12:01 AM
I managed to get Gnome -shell running on a 7 year old laptop Acer Aspire 1355LC ....

Although it does not have good graphis on the laptop ..... as UNI*TY will not run at all on it

Gnome-shell does run and is reasonably fast too - especially feels good on top of LXDE (http://i.min.us/inBmw4.png).....

I would advise to use it on something better than the old laptop I used though .... the
graphics are not good enough on it ........ as glx cannot be enabled and and multi layer
screening .... which seems to be needed when a terminal is placed on top of firefox ....

Individually the applications run ok though .....

It absolutely flies on my Acer Aspire 7730z dual core though ....... and no problems am
running it now .... its become my main working desktop ..... but I do like a change occasionally. :)

Teto_z
May 3rd, 2011, 01:11 PM
To shutdown or reboot your pc, simply clic on the user name in the top right corner, then push ALT button. "Suspend" menu entry MAGICALLY became shutdown...

I want to meet Gnome Human Interface Guideline Group to explain what usability means :D

23dornot23d
May 3rd, 2011, 01:44 PM
To shutdown or reboot ....

I add Cairo-dock

sudo-apt-get install cairo-dock

Then add cairo-dock -o in startup applications or run it Alt+f2

this plus Gnome-Shell makes it the best working environment for me .....

But some do not like docks .....

( not sure why in Gnome-shell they added press Alt to change to shutdown - was not like that originallty )

But we always have choices ..... ;)

YeOK
May 3rd, 2011, 07:04 PM
To shutdown or reboot your pc, simply clic on the user name in the top right corner, then push ALT button. "Suspend" menu entry MAGICALLY became shutdown...

I want to meet Gnome Human Interface Guideline Group to explain what usability means :D

It's just a simple extension to change it.

see, alternative-status-menu
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Extensions

root2devnull
June 7th, 2011, 05:36 AM
Checkout Ubuntu Gnome Remix (UGR) http://ugr.teampr0xy.net/ and you can have your choice of gnome2 or gnome3 to install on your system. Currently, it's just a script; but apparently they are going to release an ISO soon so it will become a full-blown Linux distro.

jvgeli
August 15th, 2011, 03:09 PM
Gnome 3 might be good someday but definitely not now. Unity still is more useful than Gnome 3. Tried it on Fedora 15 and to be frank it sucks