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youbuntu
March 17th, 2011, 05:41 PM
Hi there. I mean no offence to anyone, especially moderators who do a great job here, but I am a little baffled (and quite annoyed tbh). I started a thread discussing the current Sony PS3 lawsuit, and was quite enjoying the feedback and discussing Sony's history.

Please, guide me to where (and if) I am missing the point here - uRock closed the thread, supposedly because it was a "personal vendetta" (it really wasn't and ISN'T). I thought the whole philosophy of Linux and free software was, at the core, to encourage free speech and the development of ideas? It seems this thread was closed prematurely, without even any kind of warning :(

Am I alone in seeing nothing offensive or provocative in my thread, from my direction? Surely, if a mod is in control of your thoughts (when they are inoffensive) then that kinda flies in the face of everything that Linux and freedom of speech is about, no?

Please help me :( - I am not trying to cause trouble OR be antagonistic, I just enjoy debate - I don't know why it was closed (and believe me, I have asked - do you think I will get a reply?).

Seems a little short, and unfair... do comment, thanks.

(TO MODS; this is not meant to be a pain in the butt post, I just want a fair explanation, thanks).

Cheers! :P

wojox
March 17th, 2011, 05:46 PM
Another thread locked Glossy? Go figure. :P

youbuntu
March 17th, 2011, 05:49 PM
Another thread locked Glossy? Go figure. :P

Eh?

Sorry, could you clarify this vague pointer? Lost.

ivanovnegro
March 17th, 2011, 05:51 PM
Im not sure about your post as I did not see it but what the hell is happening here?
I saw in the last months so many problems about closed threads. That does not sound good to me as Im enjoying this community. :(

s.fox
March 17th, 2011, 05:52 PM
Thread moved to Forum Feedback & Help (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=48)

I am also closing this thread.

If you wish to discuss the moderation further then please create a thread in the Resolution Center. (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=123) Thank you.

KiwiNZ
March 17th, 2011, 05:56 PM
Refer the Code of conduct...

"Attacks and derogatory terms of any kind are not welcome. This includes references to other operating systems and the companies that produce them.

If the thread turns into an argument, it can be closed to further comment or removed without notice. Sometimes a moderator may split the thread or delete certain portions in order to keep the discussion going, but that is not always possible since we are a staff of volunteers with limited time and numbers.

The purpose of the Ubuntu Forums is to provide support for Ubuntu. We also want this to be a place where community can develop and we can enjoy one another's company. To achieve this, we strive to maintain an atmosphere that can be enjoyed by all and we ask all members of the community to be respectful at all times. This means please use etiquette and politeness. Treat people with kindness, gentleness and respect. If you do this, the rest of the code of conduct won't need more than a cursory mention."


Read again your thread and you will see why it was closed.

youbuntu
March 17th, 2011, 06:05 PM
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1708879

I have been given a thread closure, and noone seems too fussed. Please, would you explain where in this thread, was any sort of "personal attack"?

Are we turning into a hyper-sensitive community, where one has to meticulously vet EVERYTHING one says, before posting, and from then on, live in fear that their free speech be stifled by unmitigated thread closure, based on the opinion of one single person, namely the mod in charge of doing so?

It seems that my comment regarding "Toe jam eating" re. Richard Stallman was turned around and used against me, in order to facilitate the closure of my thread. I simply mentioned (it may have been misinterpreted as an attack - it wasn't) that it be unfair to judge someone by their subconscious personal habits, and that it would be unfair for me to judge them by THEIRS, in the same respect, then BLAM! thread closed?

Eh? Is that really called for? I wasn't attacking anyone, and noone was attacking me :-//

Thanks - I sincerely hope you will make a concerted effort to resolve this - I feel quite annoyed!

Matt

KiwiNZ
March 17th, 2011, 06:10 PM
Please read again post number 6.

KiwiNZ
March 17th, 2011, 06:13 PM
The thread had deteriorated where the rules as outlined in my post #6 are not being met and the thread was closed as agreed to in the Code of Conduct "Finally, you agree that forum staff have the right to remove, edit, move or close any post, topic or thread at any time they see fit following the guidelines outlined below."

youbuntu
March 17th, 2011, 06:13 PM
Refer the Code of conduct...

"Attacks and derogatory terms of any kind are not welcome. This includes references to other operating systems and the companies that produce them.

If the thread turns into an argument, it can be closed to further comment or removed without notice. Sometimes a moderator may split the thread or delete certain portions in order to keep the discussion going, but that is not always possible since we are a staff of volunteers with limited time and numbers.

The purpose of the Ubuntu Forums is to provide support for Ubuntu. We also want this to be a place where community can develop and we can enjoy one another's company. To achieve this, we strive to maintain an atmosphere that can be enjoyed by all and we ask all members of the community to be respectful at all times. This means please use etiquette and politeness. Treat people with kindness, gentleness and respect. If you do this, the rest of the code of conduct won't need more than a cursory mention."


Read again your thread and you will see why it was closed.

How is an opinion, an "attack"? I was not offensive, and Sony Corp is not a person - I did not attack an Operating System or platform, I expressed my extreme disdain for the way in which a bullying corporate entity has treated someone who has a (possibly misguided - who knows) interest in exploring how things work, and then publicising his findings in order that Sony may fix them. I am against corporate bullying, and so maybe you can see it was not, and IS not, an "attack". I'll edit the post and re-phrase it in a more neutral way, if you like?

Sheesh, this free speech business sure is hard work!

KiwiNZ
March 17th, 2011, 06:17 PM
Its not just your posts that were breaking the rules as you quoted the the Stallman references also broke the Forum rules.

The decision to close the thread was correct and done within the Code of conduct and will reman closed.

youbuntu
March 17th, 2011, 06:20 PM
Its not just your posts that were breaking the rules as you quoted the the Stallman references also broke the Forum rules.

The decision to close the thread was correct and done within the Code of conduct and will reman closed.


Could you try and explain in a slightly less cryptic way, please? The "Stallman references"? In what way? When did I break any rules mentioning HIM?! He is the very reason any of you are here!!!!

KiwiNZ
March 17th, 2011, 06:30 PM
Read again the thread in question and you will see what we are referring to. It was not just your posts it was the posts of others as well that caused the closure.

youbuntu
March 17th, 2011, 06:42 PM
Read again the thread in question and you will see what we are referring to. It was not just your posts it was the posts of others as well that caused the closure.

I read, I am still confused. You should not just close a thread without warning - that IS an autocracy, bordering on mind control. You could have, and should have at the very LEAST warned us! That's equivalent to just slamming your hand over someone's mouth, as they are speaking. Would you do that? It's possibly easy for you to detach yourself from this kind of analogy, due to this being blocks of text in a browser... but these are still voices, and they DESERVE respect, no matter how much you disagree.

Would you please us both some time, and be gracious enough to point out what it is that "offends", as I don't see it, personally. I just got an inbox message from a random member, asking me "what the **** is going on here with your thread"? It would appear I am not the only baffled party in this.

I take it I am not going to be stifled or controlled to the degree where I will not be allowed to open a new thread, toned down to accord to your rules, to continue this discussion? Surely that would be ridiculous, and would it not save a lot of hard feeling and misunderstanding to offer the benefit of the doubt, re-opening the "offending" thread, with any dubious, unaccording comments edited out by mod/s?

I really am quite annoyed with the autocratic and dictatorial approach with which you guys have handled this, maybe without even realising that it comes across this way. We're only human, but being a mod doesn't negate you from any criticism or recourse - I have been civil and polite, as that is what I am as a person, were you to meet me.

Please, take off the "moderator uniform" for a minute, and consider the OTHER side, where innocent comments are slammed shut in my face, and think how that feels for me - a guy immensely passionate about GNU/Linux and free software, and now wondering whether I am wasting my time to even bother?

I am what Linux is ABOUT - I am WHOLLY supportive of this community, but some discretion and flexibility is VITAL, if your Ubuntu community is to be prevented from having the appearance of a dictatorship - PLEASE? :)

KiwiNZ
March 17th, 2011, 06:50 PM
I feel obliged to warn you that your posts here are becoming insulting the staff of this Forum and will not be tolerated.

When you joined these Forums you were aware that these are Moderated Forums and you agreed to the rules and agreed to abide by these rules.

If you feel that you cannot continue to abide the Forum Code of Conduct the you should reconsider your member of this Forum.

youbuntu
March 17th, 2011, 06:55 PM
I feel obliged to warn you that your posts here are becoming insulting the staff of this Forum and will not be tolerated.

When you joined these Forums you were aware that these are Moderated Forums and you agreed to the rules and agreed to abide by these rules.

If you feel that you cannot continue to abide the Forum Code of Conduct the you should reconsider your member of this Forum.

Thanks for just quoting lines of a rulebook at me - that sure helps.

Where have I been offensive? Please show me, I will apologise if so,

youbuntu
March 17th, 2011, 06:59 PM
Thanks for just quoting lines of a rulebook at me - that sure helps.

Where have I been offensive? Please show me, I will apologise if so,

The only logical reason that I can think of for you finding my posts offensive, is that maybe I have hit a raw nerve, or possibly stood up for myself, without ever meaning to cause offense. Is standing up for oneself in a calm but firm manner, "rudeness"? I am not being facecious here I promise you - I am asking for a human reply, since Ubuntu is "Linux for human beings", and I consider that we both deserve that much, no?

Would you do me the courtesy of replying to me in a way that does not sound like you're just reading from a rule book? How else am I supposed to phrase this, exactly? Whatever I say, you've obviously either got it in for me, or... I dunno...

:(

KiwiNZ
March 17th, 2011, 07:01 PM
And you think calling the staff Autocrats and Dictators is not insulting?

You have a decision on this , the thread is closed, you have been advised why, it is not reopening and if you continue to break the rules and insult the staff you will be banned.

youbuntu
March 17th, 2011, 07:10 PM
And you think calling the staff Autocrats and Dictators is not insulting?

You have a decision on this , the thread is closed, you have been advised why, it is not reopening and if you continue to break the rules and insult the staff you will be banned.

I accept the thread closure. Whilst we are talking about being insulted, how do you think it feels to have a thread slammed shut without a civil warning? I do not think you ARE dictators, but possibly the way you acted came across as it could have been seen that way. Does that not concern you in the slightest? Banning me would remove me, along with my opinion, from the forum, but my thoughts on the matter would still remain.

I am being perfectly civil here, and the next step to seal the deal and prove my point, would be for you to ban me without provocation. Is that needed? No, because I know full well I meant no offence ANYWHERE, I am just wound up by all this. Surely you can sympathise, even a little bit?

I am not just another block of text on your screen to delete, any more than you are not a dictator, and we both know it. I don't play mind games, I am honest and sincere. I just feel you're throwing your weight around a little, but am willing to let it drop, because I have no energy left to talk about it with someone refusing to listen to me.#

Have a great day, apologies if I have offended anyone :(

KiwiNZ
March 17th, 2011, 07:16 PM
I accept your apology on behalf of the Forum Staff.

You may want to ponder a quote from Richard Stallman.....

"If you want to accomplish something in the world, idealism is not enough - you need to choose a method that works to achieve the goal."


Think about what you want to say before you post on these forums and review before you submit and consider it against the Rules of the Forum and Society in general and all should be OK.

youbuntu
March 17th, 2011, 07:17 PM
I accept your apology on behalf of the Forum Staff.

You may want to ponder a quote from Richard Stallman.....

"If you want to accomplish something in the world, idealism is not enough - you need to choose a method that works to achieve the goal."


Think about what you want to say before you post on these forums and review before you submit and consider it against the Rules of the Forum and Society in general and all should be OK.

Okay, thanks for resolving this (finally). I mean no harm, never have.

youbuntu
March 17th, 2011, 07:20 PM
Okay, thanks for resolving this (finally). I mean no harm, never have.


I take it I have the right to re-create the topic, modified accordingly without any content which may cause the rules to be broken? I'd really like to get to the bottom of where the mentality that someone discovering a security hole is a "problem" in the long run.

Thanks! :)

KiwiNZ
March 17th, 2011, 07:22 PM
There is already a thread on the subject

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1708911

youbuntu
March 17th, 2011, 07:28 PM
There is already a thread on the subject

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1708911


That isn't referencing PS3 in any way, esp the title. The only similarity is the DRM discussion. I can see members who wanted to post in my original thread (but couldn't) in there, but I'd still like to re-create my thread. It's nice to think that you are the sparker-off of debate, no?

KiwiNZ
March 17th, 2011, 07:35 PM
Look at the link in the first post

youbuntu
March 17th, 2011, 07:36 PM
That isn't referencing PS3 in any way, esp the title. The only similarity is the DRM discussion. I can see members who wanted to post in my original thread (but couldn't) in there, but I'd still like to re-create my thread. It's nice to think that you are the sparker-off of debate, no?

[EDIT] (?)

My bad, missed the link - sorry!

bodhi.zazen
March 17th, 2011, 09:29 PM
I feel obliged to warn you that your posts here are becoming insulting the staff of this Forum and will not be tolerated.

I agree with this statement. I am just starting to review the situation and your tone is less then optimal.


Thanks for just quoting lines of a rulebook at me - that sure helps.

That was uncalled for. It is sarcastic and does not help your cause.


Where have I been offensive? Please show me, I will apologise if so,

Not to mention the title of this thread.

These are moderated forums and you agreed to such terms when you registered your account and when you post in the style you have in this thread, starting with the title, you give the impression you have no intention of adhering to the guidelines and that your intentions are more to harass the staff.

Now that that has been clarified , what can I do to help you ? after reading your posts I do not understand what it is you want or what resolution you seek.

If you wish a thread opened, please state your reasoning and I will review your request.