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View Full Version : who says that you don't need to reboot for linux?



superarthur
October 17th, 2010, 01:44 PM
recently, the workstation in my uni freezes when I try to open the file manager or the terminal.
and reboot works...

Spice Weasel
October 17th, 2010, 01:48 PM
Me. 45 days uptime.

pwnst*r
October 17th, 2010, 01:52 PM
recently, the workstation in my uni freezes when I try to open the file manager or the terminal.
and reboot works...

Nobody. It doesn't happen as often as Windows, but system updates make you reboot as well.

Extremely rare reboots unless it's a server is a myth, unless you're some overzealous fanboy.

Half-Left
October 17th, 2010, 01:53 PM
Well, in general you don't but as the universe is, things can go wrong.

TheNessus
October 17th, 2010, 02:01 PM
recently, the workstation in my uni freezes when I try to open the file manager or the terminal.
and reboot works...

I reboot when I get 'segmentation fault' on occasions for no reason when trying to start certain applications. But that's about the only time I reboot. That and dual-booting that is.

Jeroensum
October 17th, 2010, 03:02 PM
My server (converted old workstation) had been up for 327 days until the powersupply died and my laptop currently has an uptime of 14+ days. Last reboot was because I forgot to plug in the power in time. I don't even reboot for kernel updates anymore thanks to ksplice so only really buggy code, a screwup on my part or hardware failure force me to reboot. :)

Frogs Hair
October 17th, 2010, 03:10 PM
I am prompted to reboot after some security updates, kernel updates , driver installation.

kio_http
October 17th, 2010, 03:11 PM
I say you do not need to reboot in a working linux system. (That means good drivers and bug free software) The only reason to reboot would be to launch a different kernel i.e upgrading the kernel or launching a different kernel flavor.

CraigPaleo
October 17th, 2010, 03:12 PM
recently, the workstation in my uni freezes when I try to open the file manager or the terminal.
and reboot works...

You don't have to reboot as often but if you're having these problems every time, it's not normal. I'd do some googling or post in the support section.

superarthur
October 17th, 2010, 03:18 PM
You don't have to reboot as often but if you're having these problems every time, it's not normal. I'd do some googling or post in the support section.

the workstation mounted on a network drive that changes its IP address (it's creepy, I didn't know how it happened)
anyway, the workstation was still looking for the drive at the wrong IP address, and refused to let us fix it via the terminal (the terminal freezes)
and rebooting the system works (we can use the terminal again and change the IP address to the new one)

pwnst*r
October 17th, 2010, 03:33 PM
I say you do not need to reboot in a working linux system. (That means good drivers and bug free software) The only reason to reboot would be to launch a different kernel i.e upgrading the kernel or launching a different kernel flavor.

You don't NEED to unless you wish to ignore the prompts.

neoargon
October 17th, 2010, 03:38 PM
I have been using Ubuntu for about 3 years. It's my main OS.I don't see that much Advantage in linux as many people say . Ubuntu also freezes ,sometimes ,even ctrl+alt+F1 doesn't bring terminal . That is complete freeze , need to reset .

Spice Weasel
October 17th, 2010, 03:40 PM
Can we agree that it's a case of your mileage (and distribution) may vary?

kaldor
October 17th, 2010, 03:54 PM
From my experience, it's usually Compiz that causes the lock-ups.

When I had compiz running often (Ubuntu 8.04-8.10) I would have freezes everyday. Since disabling that, I can't remember the last time I had a freeze that required me to reboot. If there was a lockup, I would simply ctrl-alt-backspace to re-login and that'd work.

On that note, for some reason OS X requires a reboot after every update.. even if it's just software like Safari or iTunes. Weird.

CraigPaleo
October 17th, 2010, 03:55 PM
Can we agree that it's a case of your mileage (and distribution) may vary?

Definitely! I've been going between Pinguy OS (http://distrowatch.com/pinguy) and KDE. I play with every plasmoid under the sun and one day last week I had three panels going, switching plasmoids all over the place, trying repeatedly to get an "upload to imageshack" plasmoid to work (I downloaded it from KDE-look) and the whole screen froze. There was nothing I could do but reboot. That was the only freeze I've had under 10.10 but I was being hard on the system.

I've never HAD to reboot under Pinguy OS but that's more modular. Playing with widgets and panels aren't likely to bring the whole OS to a screeching halt.

Edit: That plasmoid that froze the system had a big ? as its icon. I should have had a clue. So that was really my fault.

themarker0
October 17th, 2010, 08:28 PM
I reboot my laptop maybe once to twice a day when i use it. Then again its a single core 1.4, running 6-7 hours on battery.

inobe
October 17th, 2010, 08:45 PM
if you know specific commands and know how to restart services their is no need unless you upgrade the linux kernel, the kernel upgrade doesn't necessarily mean you have to reboot asap, you can get things done before you reboot.

Sporkman
October 17th, 2010, 09:09 PM
Kernel updates or failed resume-after-suspends (about 10% of the time) force reboots for me.

cariboo907
October 17th, 2010, 10:29 PM
The only reason a reboot is asked for when doing driver installs and updates, is it's much easier for the average user to reboot than it is to restart a service. What would you rather do if you installed a new video driver?

Open a console, Ctrl-Alt-F1 and type


sudo service gdm restart

Or just click the power icon and select reboot.

chriswyatt
October 17th, 2010, 11:07 PM
The only reason a reboot is asked for when doing driver installs and updates, is it's much easier for the average user to reboot than it is to restart a service. What would you rather do if you installed a new video driver?

Open a console, Ctrl-Alt-F1 and type


sudo service gdm restart

Or just click the power icon and select reboot.

Well, the command if I could remember it.

Shining Arcanine
October 17th, 2010, 11:21 PM
:P
Nobody. It doesn't happen as often as Windows, but system updates make you reboot as well.

Extremely rare reboots unless it's a server is a myth, unless you're some overzealous fanboy.

Actually, Linux does not need reboots except in very rare instances. If you know what is being changed on a system and how all of the daemons interact with one another, you can simply restart the daemons for the updates to be applied to your system. If you have a kernel upgrade, most people would need to reboot, but there are ways around that if you know what you are doing. kexec and ksplice are two ways of doing it:

http://www.ksplice.com/

In theory, you should be able to avoid rebooting, but in practice, rebooting is easier.

superarthur
October 17th, 2010, 11:31 PM
I am talking about rebooting when something freeze, not rebooting when there's an update...

CraigPaleo
October 17th, 2010, 11:35 PM
Well, the command if I could remember it.

Exactly! That's why, whenever possible, we should teach the GUI way if/when applicable along with the CLI way.

If you have a problem that can be rectified by either method, six months down the road, most people will remember the graphical way.

Many newbies are turned off because they think they HAVE to use the command line since that's what they're used to hearing in response to support questions. The CLI is a great tool but most of the time, there's a GUI way to deal with things.

mordoc
October 17th, 2010, 11:52 PM
I can think of a small numbers of time that I was very thankful either for the virtual consoles or being able to ssh into the "frozen" box to kill whatever X application crashed...

I would like to see something that was user accessible in the use of ksplice, making it part of a server release would be fantastic to show up the windows people...

pwnst*r
October 18th, 2010, 12:02 AM
:P

Actually, Linux does not need reboots except in very rare instances. If you know what is being changed on a system and how all of the daemons interact with one another, you can simply restart the daemons for the updates to be applied to your system. If you have a kernel upgrade, most people would need to reboot, but there are ways around that if you know what you are doing. kexec and ksplice are two ways of doing it:

http://www.ksplice.com/

In theory, you should be able to avoid rebooting, but in practice, rebooting is easier.

When zealots spew on about how you don't have to reboot ubuntu, they're lying to new users. New users aren't going to restart daemons, come on, lol.

NightwishFan
October 18th, 2010, 12:42 AM
My life for Aiur! It still needs to reboot less however quite recently this issue is moot. I find it a lot easier to suggest a reboot rather than anything else on updates or problems.
http://riphoenix.com/Zealot2.JPG

Shining Arcanine
October 18th, 2010, 01:22 AM
Exactly! That's why, whenever possible, we should teach the GUI way if/when applicable along with the CLI way.

If you have a problem that can be rectified by either method, six months down the road, most people will remember the graphical way.

Many newbies are turned off because they think they HAVE to use the command line since that's what they're used to hearing in response to support questions. The CLI is a great tool but most of the time, there's a GUI way to deal with things.

It is called the terminal. CLI is a Windows term. Anyway, let new users install Linux without an installer. They will learn how to use the terminal with only a few installations.


When zealots spew on about how you don't have to reboot ubuntu, they're lying to new users. New users aren't going to restart daemons, come on, lol.

Well, I use Gentoo Linux, so I likely have more experience with daemons than most Ubuntu Linux users. In my opinion, the details of how things work are well enough hidden with Ubuntu that it is difficult to do the things on Ubuntu Linux that I do on Gentoo Linux.

billcSailor
October 18th, 2010, 01:30 AM
Exactly! That's why, whenever possible, we should teach the GUI way if/when applicable along with the CLI way.

If you have a problem that can be rectified by either method, six months down the road, most people will remember the graphical way.

Many newbies are turned off because they think they HAVE to use the command line since that's what they're used to hearing in response to support questions. The CLI is a great tool but most of the time, there's a GUI way to deal with things.


I agree with you 100%, or at least I would. Problem is there is no one GUI way usually. Each distro and often version of each distro has another GUI application to make system changes. But the command line version usually has more broad compatibility, heck in some cases it may work with SystemV or BSD. There are network setup commands for instance that work on pretty much all nix's, but the GUI stuff has 75 different programs a distro might include.

Even if the user has the right GUI program you give instructions for he may not have the right version. I've found myself reading instructions for utilities that were TEN YEARS out of date, with no indication of that on the web page. Using instructions for a long dead previous version can cause a lot of problems. Your instructions are going to be on the web long after you've forgotten about them (please date them). The words latest version always seem to accompany 15 year old help files. :(

Old command line programmers are no more disciplined about interfaces than their GUI younger brothers, but often their apps are depended on by shell scripts or exec'd by other software (often GUI's) so they HAVE to keep a stable interface. And likewise because other software calls standard setup utilities distros have to include these standards. The system works toward standards for command line apps.

Artemis Fowl
October 18th, 2010, 02:01 AM
I've only needed to reboot during weird glitches caused by minecraft where keyboard input becomes ignored, once because of a freeze, and during updates.

toupeiro
October 18th, 2010, 02:53 AM
I am talking about rebooting when something freeze, not rebooting when there's an update...

I must say, this is such an extreme rarity when compared to other OSes that to hold all linux based OSes accountable to the rare combination of events that has to transpire for this to happen is not realistic. Sure, linux CAN freeze to the point you don't even have tty responsiveness but in 12 years, I've seen that happen once or twice, and not coincidentally it was tied to failing or not-completely-supported hardware..

I've seen filesystems in linux become completely corrupt, and the OS will still remount itself read only and allow you to shut other services down as gracefully as possible. It's more fault tolerant than any other desktop OS or server OS out there, but NOTHING is failproof. I'm sorry you had a bad experience and your 'puter froze but that doesn't mean Linux is failure prone and reboot happy.

Shining Arcanine
October 18th, 2010, 04:07 AM
I am talking about rebooting when something freeze, not rebooting when there's an update...

Assuming that you run Ubuntu and you are having something freeze on you, it is probably an issue with X. You can restart X without restarting your computer. It is faster and less potentially destructive to your file system.

Ahava591
October 18th, 2010, 04:25 AM
I royally fouled up I think three times in the first couple of months when I started using 9.10.

I don't know that there's been a case with my usage where a reboot has been required; rebooting after updates has simply been easiest for me up to this point.


Yes, I have made mistakes which necessitated reboots; I haven't read online or in print that with Linux, any distribution, you will only need to restart after updates.
-Never have I seen the claim that you can screw up and not need a restart.

CharlesA
October 18th, 2010, 04:32 AM
I only reboot my server after updates that bug me with *** Restart Required ***

If I really wanted 99.9% uptime, I would check out ksplice, but I don't feel like paying for it since I am running Ubuntu Server at home and uptime really doesn't matter all that much, as long as everyone is notified before it's rebooted.

Khakilang
October 18th, 2010, 05:12 AM
My computer hang once when I process my image in Gimp for no reason and I had to press that reset button which I haven't touch it since I install Ubuntu. Most of the time it had to reboot when its update the kernel and the hardware drivers. Compare to Window I had more reboot than I could remember.

MisterGaribaldi
October 18th, 2010, 05:15 AM
I've known of people who will go to extraordinary lengths just to have huge uptime stats to brag about.

Personally, I think it's all very over-rated.

My Debian-based server I will reboot from time to time as needed by what I do with it. I could care less about its "uptime" stats. As long as in general I can leave it up and running, I don't mind about the occasional reboot.

NightwishFan
October 18th, 2010, 05:48 AM
My computer hang once when I process my image in Gimp for no reason and I had to press that reset button which I haven't touch it since I install Ubuntu. Most of the time it had to reboot when its update the kernel and the hardware drivers. Compare to Window I had more reboot than I could remember.

Some gimp plugins can fill up ram really quick.

msandoy
October 18th, 2010, 05:54 AM
I need to reboot my laptop and workstation quite regularly, my laptop a few times a week, since I just pull the plug and let it drain the battery over night for maintenance reasons, and my workstation is switched off in the evening when I'm finished with it for the day. My server is continously powered on, It's and Asus eee box, consuming minimal ammounts of power, while doing its job.
Some folks here mentioned that most reboots occur due to X freezing. I agree with that, but someone decided to make it harder to get out of that mess by disabling "ctrl+Alt+Backspace" by default. I think that was a bad decision.

CraigPaleo
October 18th, 2010, 06:05 PM
It is called the terminal. CLI is a Windows term. Anyway, let new users install Linux without an installer. They will learn how to use the terminal with only a few installations.

CLI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command-line_interface) a general term much as GUI. Anyway there's also CLI Companion (http://okiebuntu.homelinux.com/okwiki/clicompanion/) for Terminal virgins.

@billcSailor, Very good points.

mainerror
October 18th, 2010, 06:23 PM
recently, the workstation in my uni freezes when I try to open the file manager or the terminal.
and reboot works...

Well most people don't understand that faulty hardware can cause any system to lockup. It doesn't matter if it is Windows or any Linux distribution. There is nothing you can do about such things.

On the other hand if something is mis-configured (Gnome, KDE, etc.) then of course your visual (click-able) part of the system might lockup and won't respond. Of course also the virtual terminal application. If you hit Ctrl + Alt + F1 for example you will most likely get to a real terminal where you can restart/fix your desktop manager or other faulty software.


I reboot when I get 'segmentation fault' on occasions for no reason when trying to start certain applications. But that's about the only time I reboot. That and dual-booting that is.

Sounds like some hardware problems. Have you tried to run a Memtest already?


Ubuntu also freezes ,sometimes ,even ctrl+alt+F1 doesn't bring terminal . That is complete freeze , need to reset .

Faulty hardware?