How do Linux preloaded computers figure into your life?

[aysiu]

A lot of people like me don't like the idea of having to buy a Windows-preloaded computer and then trying to install Linux on it after the fact.

Unfortunately, when many of us bought our computers, we didn't even have Linux in mind for them.

Have you bought from a Linux computer vendor? If so, how was it?

Will you buy from one? If not, why not?

I'm just curious. Please try to pick the poll option that most approximates your attitude/situation. I've included an "other" option as well.

By "Linux computer" I mean something like from one of these sites:
http://www.system76.com
http://www.emperorlinux.com
http://www.linuxcertified.com

By "Windows computer" I mean something like from one of these sites:
http://www.hp.com
http://www.dell.com
http://www.sony.com

[John.Michael.Kane]

For myself when the time comes, and i'm able to buy another machine it will be a WhiteBox/No OS based laptop.

[aysiu]

I knew I was missing something! Damn.
I put Apple in there, but I forgot a bunch of people build their own computers from scratch.

Sorry I left you out, folks!

[mstlyevil]

Other:

Since I just use desktop computers, I just build my own. I have complete control on the parts that go in it and I am guaranteed to have a Linux compaitble computer.

If I ever decide to buy a laptop, I will consider a linux vendor only if I can get the exact setup I want at a competetive price.

[John.Michael.Kane]

aysiu it's cool i think the option of other fits for those who build whitebox rigs.

[rfruth]

I bought a white box / no name last December - what a good move that was :D

http://www.rfruth.net/resume/computers/breezy/systemax.txt

[endersshadow]

Quite frankly, I'll buy the best computer I can get for my money. I'm going to take off whatever OS is loaded on it and put the one of my choice onto it, anyway. I always do. I did it with Windows (rip it off and clean install it), and I'd do it with Linux. Just the way I am.

Therefore, I chose other :-D

[polo_step]

Uh, does Linspire [spit!] count?

I bought a Linspire [spit!] box last year, 100% purely because I wanted to see if there could be such a thing as a real, functional Linux over-the-counter computer, but it was a dirty joke. The so-called Linspire [spit!] operating system was gutted, stripped down to only the most elemental granny functions and still didn't work that well with the hardware, particularly the riser modem -- which worked about as badly as a modem can possibly work and still be detected as operational. The other hardware wasn't really installed at all. The video was running on VESA. The stuff "worked," but not properly. It wasn't configured. Bah!

I put Ubuntu 5.04 on it and it was sort of sub-adequate. 5.10 Live seems to work remarkably well on it, but I haven't installed it, as I'm waiting for 6.06. I chucked the modem and have DSL, plus I got an nVidia video card and more memory.

[mcduck]

I had to choose 'other'. I have never seen linux-computers for sale in Finland, except one company selling firewall machines built from used parts..

Anyway, I prefer to build my own computers. From bulk parts, when possible :)

But if I wanted a laptop, I'd like to get one with Linux. That would save me the time it takes to remove Windows, and all ugly windows stickers ;)

[gord]

i allways build from parts for desktops, but whenever i get myself a lappy i'll definatly buy a linux lappy, even if it costs more and isn't as powerfull. when you beleave in som't you have to follow it though, else your just part of the problem.

[IYY]

I assemble my own, because I always have half of the components anyway (just right now I have a couple of harddrives, a CD-ROM drive and floppy drive, all the cables, a monitor and a video card).

[K.Mandla]

For myself when the time comes, and i'm able to buy another machine it will be a WhiteBox/No OS based laptop.
Same here.

[paul cooke]

I want to get a laptop preferably with Linux preloaded, but... I just get depressed with the ridiculously cheap bundle deals in places like PCWorld where it's cheaper to buy a laptop preloaded with XP and MS-Works than it is to buy a refurbished secondhand one with only half the spec or a Linux laptop...

[nocturn]

I selected other.

I cannot buy from any of the Linux vendors I've found so far because they don't offer laptops with Belgian keyboard, which is what I use.
So, after 3 months of searching for at least a bare machine, I ended up buying an HP Pavillion that I knew would support Linux well.

Desktops/servers are another issue, but I build these myself from components.

[nocturn]

I'm wondering something...

Barebones aside, aren't some of those machines delivered to the vendors with Windows pre-installed anyway? I've seen Asus machines on there and AFAIK, they do not even sell empty ones to OEMs.

[bjweeks]

Well if I can I build things myself, if I can't like a mac mini or a laptop(um whitebook?).

[Stew2]

Homebuilt for me. Except for my laptop of course :) . I will definitely choose more linux compliant hardware on my next build though... particularly the video card.

[frodon]

Other,

I prefer to buy components one by one and mount my computer myself therefore i buy computers with no preloaded OS on it.

So i vote : "I am planning to buy a computer without OS"

[Zeroangel]

Other,

I prefer to buy components one by one and mount my computer myself therefore i buy computers with no preloaded OS on it.

So i vote : "I am planning to buy a computer without OS" I too am a 'build it yourself' type of guy. :) However, I would pay an extra fee (like $50) if the system they were offering had ubuntu linux preinstalled and things like codecs, libdvdcss, totem-xine, firefox plugins, themes, etc. installed so that I would have to spend less time configuring and setting it up.

After all, if I wanted to install windows, all I would need to do is repartition the disk.

I have submitted my application at a computer 'warehouse' type of store as a service technician. If I get the job, I would definitely speak to the manager about having linux distributions (like Dapper) set up as an option on some of the computers we sell (using a disk image to save time and effort). Tacking an extra $50 onto the service price (vs. $150 for Windows) could go over well...or not.

[Iandefor]

I build my own computers, so I just chose other.

[jlhughes]

I needed to replace an old Windows box and wanted to experiment with Ubuntu.

For just over $300 (tax included; on sale), I purchased the Fry's GQ machine with WinXP Home preloaded and an extra 256MB ram module. (It comes with 256MB ram, but it shares video and I figured the extra ram would be worth the $24 price.)

The Ubuntu installation went without a problem, recognizing all of the hardware.

[prizrak]

It really depends. If I'm getting a desktop then chances are it's gonna be custom built by me and I'll have to install an OS either way. If it's a laptop it would depend on what is available and the pricing. If it's like a $100 more for a Linux one and its the distro I want then sure why not, if it's more expensive than that and I don't get to pick the distro I would be much less inclined.

[angkor]

Other.

I build my own comp from scratch and keep on upgrading it over the years by buying new parts.

I'm very much in favour though of more computers being sold with Linux pre-installed.

[crichell]

Barebones aside, aren't some of those machines delivered to the vendors with Windows pre-installed anyway? I've seen Asus machines on there and AFAIK, they do not even sell empty ones to OEMs.

I don't know about those other guys but Windows never sees the light of day on System76 machines.

[RaptorRaider]

How about:
I'll build my computer myself, and put whatever OS on it I desire?

Oh wait, tons of people have said something similar before me in this thread. :p
Can't a mod add an option?

I would like to see a small range of Ubuntu PC's though, with software compiled for its hardware.

[aysiu]

How about:
I'll build my computer myself, and put whatever OS on it I desire?

Oh wait, tons of people have said something similar before me in this thread. :p
Can't a mod add an option? Even when I was a moderator, I didn't see an option for adding poll results.

I'm an idiot and didn't even think of people building their own computers--as fate would have it, that turned out to be the most popular choice!

[vertigo]

Always build my own computers (unless someone donates one to me) that way I get what I want, and can install what I want.

[maruchan]

I'd love to buy one of those nice System76 machines, especially one of the high-end "Wild Dog" systems (the mid-line desktops look interesting but the cases they come in are not looking that great to my eye).

However, I have questions. I wonder about 64-bit Ubuntu - will things like the Flash plugin work with it? Does the hardware setup have a MIDI port somewhere? Have they successfully done a Dapper install yet? When users need to dual boot with Windows, how has that gone? And where are some reviews of these systems?

Anyway, that's what goes through my head when I look at Linux-based systems. If I was going to sell systems like this, I'd have a page broken down into categories with questions, like this:

Musician
Features:
-MIDI port
-Preemptive Linux kernel pre-installed for low latency
-Etc.
FAQs:
-What latency levels have you achieved with this system?
(answer)
-What music applications can I use in Linux?
(answer)
3D Artist
Features:
-High-end nVidia graphics card for heavy-duty 3D modeling (more details, etc.)
-Supports (or doesn't it?) dual-monitor configurations
FAQs:
-Can I run Autodesk Maya on this system?
-Can I run the Linux version of Autodesk Discreet Inferno on this system?
-What Free/Open Source Linux 3D applications are available?
etc.
Video Editor
Features:
-Firewire input
-Fast HD
FAQs:
-What video editing software is available for Linux?

Anyway, I think something like this would help me switch really easily. I want to get a grasp of the entire experience, not just the hardware that's available.

[hotani]

...but I forgot a bunch of people build their own computers from scratch.
*raises hand*

I like the idea of a pre-loaded linux system, and would certainly recommend it to someone looking for a new machine and willing to use linux. For me though, I'm looking forward to building my own for once after years of Apple building them for me. :)

My computer history: powerbook 190, powerbook 1400, powerbook G3, iBook, powermac G4 -> and coming soon to my desk: custom built Ubuntu box! :D

[djsroknrol]

I think the idea of a pre loaded Linux system is a great idea as well....as for myself, I've built my own systems since 1993, and like the freedom to put what I want in it...weither it be DOS, GEM, M$, or Ubuntu...'nuff said...

[briancurtin]

ill probably just buy from dell and put Arch on it. im not sure if i want to build my own yet, as i know nothing at all about hardware. i wouldnt bother with a preinstalled linux one because i have seen no vendor that sells prebuilt linux boxes with even semi-enticing prices. laptops are going for an asinine amount, an amount id much rather pay to dell or HP and just eat the microsoft tax, and save money still.

[IYY]

I think my next machine will be a preloaded Ubuntu system from some online vendor. I'd like to know that -all- my hardware is supported.

[Compucore]

I usually build my own machines as well when it comes to workstation. Or if I can get them dirt cheap complete machine like the two dell GX150 one for my windows and the other my linux box. The one thing that bugs me is the laptop side. The only company that I know of that does not come installed on their laptops are the ECS laptops. Most of the other places like staples, futureshop, best buy, etc, don't even offer them for linux. The are all preloaded with windows. And the ECS laptop that I had seen was through the distribution. Meaning that I was selling to the mom and pop computer stores. I had two colleagues that sold two ecs laptops. and it came with a version of linux with them. But the guy was buying for his client and said that he would be installing windows for them.

[Lucho]

Normally I fit in the do-it-yourself category- I built my own box, and
rebuilt it twice.
but on the topic of Linux OEM, have you seen what´s going on
here in Brazil? Distrowatch ignores Latin America, but the federal
government´s "PC for Everyone" program is worth a look:
http://www.guiadohardware.net/noticias/2006-04/#44538e4a

The article is in Portuguese, so here´s the gist:
One company involved with the program, Insigne, has had 100,000
registered copies of its distro (you buy the comp and linux is already installed).
Further, the company expects around 30,000 new registered users per month
until the end of the year.
Mandriva estimates that about 30% of the 60,000 machines produced
monthly by another company, Positivo, leave the factory with Linux.
These are only two of the roughly 35 companies involved in the program.
And it has achieved the results in about 6 months (the program started in
October, 2005)! How does that fit into the poll?

[dada1958]

I got my first other than Mac PC in September 2005, a secondhand Compaq P III. It came with an illegal copy of Windows XP Pro installed which I removed immediately in order to put Ubuntu on it. Next Tuesday I'm going to get my second Compaq P III which I got for a few Euros. It's going to replace my good old Mac G3 web server. It has no OS pre-installed so it will be running with Ubuntu Server.
My next major computer will be a self build one. OSS and Ubuntu in particular really changed my digital life style. Software I already used before I plunged into Linux, phpBB2 and WordPress really fit in that. So the coming weeks I'm going to spend with my two Ubuntu PC's.
I'm working for a foundation that support people with a so called intellectual limitation in daily life. I brought internet for them in the place I work; we use an Ubuntu PC for that purpose. I set up a chatbox, forum and weblog on my web server and those activities caught attention from the management, I was approached to set up 'The Computer workshop' for the other clients of the foundation, that means starting up internet cafes in every major locations, revamping old PS's with Ubuntu.
And with Dapper Drake coming I'm tended to consider setting up a line of brand new self made PC's with Ubuntu pre-installed. Because I think there's a marginal market for it. My enthusiasm must be infectious. Plus of course the fact that people are getting tired of Windows. There are fancy cases available on the market, like CoolerMaster to mention one brand; put decent components in them, ship those computers with a kicking *** OS with the additional software and you have a product with an additional value: they are assembled by people who need our support but on the other hand they can return their share to society by delivering superior computers...

[fuscia]

i'm planning on ordering a system76 laptop in two weeks. i once thought about building my own machine. for about two minutes, i was very enthusiastic about it. then, i remembered what clint eastwood once said about limitations, and that was the end of that.

[aysiu]

i'm planning on ordering a system76 laptop in two weeks. If you do, would you mind posting a review about it once you get it?

[ubuntu_demon]

I voted "I don't know if I will buy from a Linux computer. It depends."

It would be great if it's easier for the average user to buy a computer that is guaranteed to work great with linux.

I'll probably just build something for myself when the time comes to buy a new desktop computer. But my next computer will be a laptop and I don't want to pay for windows. (I'm not in a hurry to buy one since I don't have any money for it it will be something for the future maybe next year or so).

[ice60]

i know two people who want to get new computers with Linux instead of Windows. they've asked me to help but i have no idea how to go about buying/building a Linux box :confused:

if you build something do you spend hours checking for drivers and linux compatibility first? or is there a simple way around that?

does anyone have any ideas what they should get for about £400?

[transactionlogfiller]

I'll either build my own or buy one with Linux pre-installed, depending on my requirements. I'd probably pay a little more for a machine just to avoid the MS tax, I really don't want to give them money for something I'm not going to use.

[Iandefor]

i know two people who want to get new computers with Linux instead of Windows. they've asked me to help but i have no idea how to go about buying/building a Linux box :confused:

if you build something do you spend hours checking for drivers and linux compatibility first? or is there a simple way around that?

does anyone have any ideas what they should get for about £400?
What I've found works pretty well is to just make a configuration, and then check around for compatibility, which usually doesn't take too long. If you find a part that won't work, tweak that part of the configuration. For instance, when I built my computer, I found a motherboard I liked. The integrated audio didn't work, so before I bought it, I looked around for a cheap soundcard that did, found one (Creative Soundblaster Audigy SE) and added it to my cart.

[aundwer]

A lot of people like me don't like the idea of having to buy a Windows-preloaded computer and then trying to install Linux on it after the fact.

I might be a bit "old-school", but the next time I'm buying a computer, I will do as I always have done;

Pick the hardware I want (after carefully checking linux compatibility), order it, and then assemble it myself afterwards.

[nocturn]

I don't know about those other guys but Windows never sees the light of day on System76 machines.

Sorry for the late reply. So, you guys really got them to deliver systems without the pre-install? Cool!

[Dragonfly_X]

I might be a bit "old-school", but the next time I'm buying a computer, I will do as I always have done;

Pick the hardware I want (after carefully checking linux compatibility), order it, and then assemble it myself afterwards.


Indeed, i'll do the same! :KS

[opensensesolutions]

Open Sense Solutions will be updating its Groovix computer line in the next few months and we'd love to get some input from the community.

First off, what do you like, and what would you like to see different from our current offerings at http://groovix.com/store/ (http://groovix.com/store/)

2. If you build your own machine and install Ubuntu, how much time do you estimate it will take you (or did take you) to
a) research hardware choices
b) order
c) assemble
d) test
e) diagnose and rma bad parts
f) install Ubuntu
g) configure hardware properly (nvidia, wifi drivers, etc.)
h) find and install extra software until the machine is to your liking
i) search forums to find answers when you have a question or problem

3. Given the time it takes to complete the above, what do you think a fair price is for a pre-configured Linux computer in terms of markup over the retail parts cost?

4. What do you look for in a Linux vendor? How do you shop for a Linux computer?

5. Which 2 out of these 3 would you pick:
Low-Price, Performance, Quality (meaning stability, longevity, quiet, expert support)

Any other comments would be appreciated as well.

[beeldings]

I bought from a Linux computer vendor, and I have mixed feelings about it.

I purchased a Performance Koobox in April. While the machine runs Ubuntu just fine, I was annoyed by the fact that I paid $700 for a system that's more or less outdated. My main gripes with the Koobox are that it uses a Via K8M800 integrated graphics processor and the CPU interface is socket 754. With the money I invested in my Koobox, I would have been better off purchasing an iMac, a Dell system, or building my own system.

I will most likely sell my Koobox and use the money towards a barebones kit from NewEgg. The more I think about it, the more I regret buying a Koobox. I should have returned it when I had the chance and went with something else. But, if you don't want to play the latest games or you don't need bleeding-edge technology, then by all means buy a Koobox. Hardcore tech-enthusiasts and do-it-yourselfers need not apply.

[Rhapsody]

I'm not sure what I'll do for my next PC.

This one was built by a local computer shop (in other words, a whitebox, my first one too) and had Windows XP Home pre-installed (they recommended Windows 2000, but I knew Microsoft would end up giving me good reasons to use Windows XP instead) and it's actually not all that bad. It was exactly to my specifications, and pretty cheap too.

So for my next PC, I'd either get them to build me one with a blank HD for me to install Kubuntu onto (out of the effort I've put into getting Kubuntu up and running, perhaps 1 or 2% can be accounted for with the installation, I'll save on labour costs thank you very much) or build one myself. The latter is looking more appealing right now.

[RAV TUX]

For myself when the time comes, and i'm able to buy another machine it will be a WhiteBox/No OS based laptop.


do you have links where one could make such a purchase?
















http://elevagemo.free.fr/emoticones/animaux/animo21.gif

[nocturn]

2. If you build your own machine and install Ubuntu, how much time do you estimate it will take you (or did take you) to


a) research hardware choices

For my laptop it has taken me several hours in total spread over 3 weeks. I must add that my requirement back then (7/2005) was kinda specific.
Ubuntu friendly, widescreen, AMD process (64 bit preferred), DVD+-RW, large HD AND an Nvidia card (no compromises on the last even considered).

For a typical desktop, an hour would do.

b) order

Because I was looking for such a specific model (I selected the HP Pav. ZV5475EA) I had to track it down, it's not easy to find in stores here.
It took me a week, but normally ordering would take me 30 minutes to an hour (comparing some online prices etc).

c) assemble

None on a laptop, a desktop would take about 1-1.5 hours, but I don't mind that.

d) test

Testing is part of the install of Linux. See if everything works etc. basic testing is in the 1 to 1.5 hour above, further testing is part of the install, customisation of the OS.

e) diagnose and rma bad parts

So far, I've been lucky. Almost 0.

f) install Ubuntu

The longest install was about an hour.

g) configure hardware properly (nvidia, wifi drivers, etc.)

Nvidia is dead easy on Ubuntu, so 5-10 minutes. For wifi with Ndiswrapper 30 minutes the first time (research), later 10 when I have the drivers handy.
For all hardware, up to 30 minutes.

3. Given the time it takes to complete the above, what do you think a fair price is for a pre-configured Linux computer in terms of markup over the retail parts cost?

It depends on the specs, warranty etc. If I'm ensured that everything works 100% on Linux, I would pay more.
I do require a localized model though (BE-Azerty keyboard) which none of the Linux builders offer.

4. What do you look for in a Linux vendor? How do you shop for a Linux computer?

For a desktop, I just buy the parts from companies that have stuff that works on Linux and preferably actively support it.
For a laptop, basicly finding one that works (and has no ATI) is it. Getting it without windows is a dream, but was not possible (for a localised model).

5. Which 2 out of these 3 would you pick:
Low-Price, Performance, Quality (meaning stability, longevity, quiet, expert support)

I cannot answer this in one line. I would qay Quality and performance, but the price would put a cap on that. I would not pay more then 1500 € in any case.

[fuscia]

i've just ordered a system76 notebook, this past weekend. it comes installed with breezy, but i just got an email from carl asking me if i'd like dapper installed instead. i'm pretty stoked about my purchase.

[richbarna]

I knew I was missing something! Damn.
I put Apple in there, but I forgot a bunch of people build their own computers from scratch.

Sorry I left you out, folks!

I always build them myself. But nowadays in Barcelona there are so many pick n build stores that you can choose all the components and they will put it together.

None of these computers come with a preinstalled OS.

[K.Mandla]

Another Great Place for Linux computers is

www.fossystems.com

Buy & Sell free open source systems
Sorry, but you lost me as a potential customer when you started spamming the forums.

[bjweeks]

Another Great Place for Linux computers is

www.fossystems.com

Buy & Sell free open source systems

Could somebody ban this guy?

[Polygon]

i custom built my computer, so i didn't have to necessarily buy a windows licence.

but if i buy a laptop in the future, i am definitely going to have ubuntu preloaded on it.

[Carrots171]

I built my own desktop computer and never installed Windows - but I'm planning to get either an Apple laptop or a System76 laptop in the future.

[fluffington]

I build my own desktops and will likely continue to do so indefinitely, but I'm thinking of buying a laptop from System 76 some time in the next couple of months.

[rattlerviper]

I will build my own desktops. That way I get exactly what I want and compatable hardware. If I get a laptop it will probably come from Sytem76, but it will definantly come with a Linux distro,,,I can always change what distro.

[Chxta]

I bought a Window$ computer (laptop) and removed the damned thing. For my desktop, I built that from scratch.

[Canis familiaris]

I would certainly like to buy Laptop from a Linux Vendor, but in case of desktops, I'll prefer to assemble a rig on my own.

[beercz]

I would rather get a computer with no OS supplied/preloaded and install my own.

[Magnes]

i allways build from parts for desktops, but whenever i get myself a lappy i'll definatly buy a linux lappy, even if it costs more and isn't as powerfull. when you beleave in som't you have to follow it though, else your just part of the problem.

The same here.

[eriqk]

Hopefully, I'll be looking at this subject from the other end soon. I have a plan where I'll sell low-budget computers to needy artists. I'll pre-install either Ubuntu or Dyne:bolic on them.

Groet, Erik

[Sunflower1970]

I will be teaching myself how to build a computer, so when it comes time to get one I'll be able to build it.

[MkfIbK7a]

i didnt buy a comuter i dug one out of the garbage....

[Bigbluecat]

Other.

Build my own. Easier, more flexible, upgrade pieces when needed.

[sanderella]

For a long time I looked for a laptop without windows pre-installed. In the end I bought a cheapie from dell with windows. I paid the minimum with no discs or backup, and got someone at the lug to help me install Ubuntu.

:neutral:

[koenn]

"Other":
over the past 7-8 years, I've always managed to get my computers for free (write-offs from places I worked) or dirt cheap (2nd hand stores, flee markets, junk sales), swapping parts between them an add the occasional new hard drive. I'm hoping to keep it that way.
I had been experimenting with Linux before (on spare machines and dual booting but keeping Windows as 'main' OS). Microsoft's product activation became to much of a hassle with all the part swapping and building a PC out of the parts of 2-3 others so now i'm gonna stick with linux, i think.

[euler_fan]

Quite frankly, I'll buy the best computer I can get for my money. I'm going to take off whatever OS is loaded on it and put the one of my choice onto it, anyway. I always do. I did it with Windows (rip it off and clean install it), and I'd do it with Linux. Just the way I am.

Therefore, I chose other :-D

This is my preference as well. I will be watching System76 for when and how good their sales are (if any) and price them out compared to HP et al.

[tocky]

Well, I believe that it's time for another of my polls. I just love to make polls don't know why but I simply do. This poll will be dedicated to, if you would consider of buying a 100 % Linux compatible laptop. Here's the question:

Would you buy a 100 % Linux compatible laptop if they were on the market? Think of it like a Macbook, but for Linux. It would have similar specs as the Macbook, nice design etc. The laptop has 100 % free software and uses LinuxBios for boot up. There will be options of purshase a laptop with preinstalled OS and a clean harddrive. Of course there will be different segments like, student, home and professional and the specs and price would differ from which you would choose.

Personally I think that it would be a great idea, that I'd be able to buy a laptop suited for my needs with full support for Linux. A cheap and nice looking laptop would be nice for my schoolwork.

What's your oppinion?

[mykalreborn]

i'd buy a laptot even if it only ran windows. i just don't have the money. ;)
btw, where is the poll? :p

[tocky]

You're too quick for my internet connection :)

[aysiu]

I've merged this with the other similar thread.

P.S. There are Linux vendors. You can find them here:
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/

[-grubby]

I always build my own computers

[Billy_McBong]

build my own computers
how could you leave out that option aysiu?

[Sporkman]

Linspire [spit!]

:lol:

[Ceemee]

I build my own desktops.

Laptops, I'm going to either A. Buy from a linux vendor if I can find what I want.
Or I'll just make sure that Its linux compatible and fight for a refund which I'm technically entitled to by the Microsoft EULA.

(I'm a big fan of arguing the point)

Plus, it can be fun to have this convo if done right -

Customer Service Rep: "Sir, we can refund you $12, its what we pay for MS Windows."
Customer:"Well if thats the case, then I would like to buy 10 of them, thats a good deal."

etc. etc.

I'm always polite, but its still fun messing with the companies that help make you purchase M$ *******. And it also helps get the point across that we want choice in our pre-installs.

[avik]

I'm getting a laptop soon, and I asked around if the big stores (Fry's, MicroCenter, etc.) sell any systems sans OS. Unfortunately, they don't. I'm probably going to order a laptop, but since I'm leaning towards the HP Pavilion tx1000z series, It'll still have Windows on it.

It's okay though. First things first; Windows has to go! Second: Ubuntu!

[Lord Illidan]

Quite frankly, I'll buy the best computer I can get for my money. I'm going to take off whatever OS is loaded on it and put the one of my choice onto it, anyway. I always do. I did it with Windows (rip it off and clean install it), and I'd do it with Linux. Just the way I am.

Therefore, I chose other :-D

It's what I did with this laptop too. Sony VAIO VGN-FE48E. It's very good and fast, but I disliked Vista, so I wiped it and put Gutsy on it. Some things don't work like suspend, so I submitted a bug report. Otherwise, things work very well, thank you.

I am now just a laptop kind of guy. I don't think I'll buy a desktop PC for a long time. Laptops are so comfortable.

EDIT : Regarding preloaded machines, I'd buy one, if I can get one. System76 and EfficientPC do not ship to Malta, and I don't think DELL does either. And even if I found one, I'd probably buy it just because I have the distributor's assurance that Linux works well on it, because I'd still customize the hell out of it!

[Boaslad]

The last time I tried building my own computer I ended up with about a $500 smoke bomb... don't ask... Needless to say, I don't touch the innards anymore. But, the guy down at the local "Computer Shack" is an avid Linux enthusiast. My plan for my next computer is to have him build me a hot new box (minus the smoke) made of only Linux compatible parts.

Then all I have to do is install Ubuntu and tell my family I can't seem to find that pesky Windows XP installation disk any where...

I don't know where it could have gone...

Gee. What a shame...:-\"

[any1care]

You know i was just thinking how nice it would be to save money on a computer with no windows installed. you figure it should be about 200 bucks cheaper!