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Khakilang
May 2nd, 2010, 01:55 PM
Has anyone read this or yesterday's news? What's your opinion?

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/04/ps3-linux-support-removal-begets-class-actin-lawsuit.ars

:confused:

MooPi
May 2nd, 2010, 02:18 PM
They should be sued. They are altering devices paid for and owned for there own twisted and convoluted reasons without consent. I'm sure there is a EULA or some such thing to backup their claim of reason but this is no different than device DRM. They are basically neutering Playstations for their reasons and not those of the rightful owners.

handy
May 2nd, 2010, 02:19 PM
I would think that if it gets to court it will come down to interpretations of definitions in the user agreement.

I don't think it is a simple open & shut case, Sony could very well win it. Whether they think it will be worth the negative publicity & potential loss of sales is another matter.

Though most PS3 users don't give a hoot about the OtherOS function, & it was only really useful to a very small number of users.

I don't know how much of a fuss the claimants are capable of making as far as stirring up the press is concerned, as Sony wouldn't like that.

Also, if they lose in the States, it could start the ball rolling in other countries as well.

Chrysantine
May 2nd, 2010, 02:29 PM
Once again, everyone is pointing the finger at Sony and not at the idiot who started the whole mess.

As for the backlash from this? You can be sure no one will incorporate an "Other OS" feature in their consoles in the future.

cascade9
May 2nd, 2010, 02:45 PM
Once again, everyone is pointing the finger at Sony and not at the idiot who started the whole mess.

Of course they are...Fony, opps, Sony, is one of the nastiest companies around. Can you say 'hello rootkit'?

As for 'idiot'- I assume you mean that somebody figured out that you could 'backup' games to the other OS, and then play them? You can put whatever other value judgement you want on that, but I'd hardly call the peson (people, probably) who figured this out 'idiot/idiots'.

Sony has made a judgement that 'losses' incurred being able to do this outweighs the 'profit' of having an extra selling point. That would be fair enough...if it wasnt for the fact that there are a lot of people who bought PS3s based on being able to run 'other OS' (lots of distributed computing fans, for one). I spose in Sonys eyes, a lot of that group are just 'leechers' who dont buy games, and games are where Sony makes it profits.



As for the backlash from this? You can be sure no one will incorporate an "Other OS" feature in their consoles in the future.

I doubt it. Sony might never do it again...but I would guess that Nintendo isnt going to do anything about 'the homebrew channel' that lets people run GeexBox (and probably a ton of other stuff that I dont know about).

Hwt
May 2nd, 2010, 02:54 PM
Good, there are a lot of people who bought their PS3s over the 360 or Wii because of this extra feature.

If a company advertised a specific service and then removed it shortly thereafter, despite many people buying the product for the service, then it is nothing short of false advertising and Sony should be penalized just like every other company that breaks FTC regulations.

My 2.

eriktheblu
May 2nd, 2010, 02:58 PM
Once again, everyone is pointing the finger at Sony and not at the idiot who started the whole mess.

Torvalds?

abhibharti
May 2nd, 2010, 03:02 PM
Well I think it will be better to leave this decision with court. But I think they should be sued.

Genius314
May 2nd, 2010, 03:05 PM
Being able to run Linux on the PS3 was one of the (few) reasons I was even considering getting it. Imagine, if I had actually shelled out a couple hundred bucks for this console, only to have it forced into becoming a giant paperweight... Not cool at all.

But honestly, there's probably nothing anyone can do about it... After all, Linux is still a niche group, especially on the PS3, and Sony is a huge corporation. They can basically do what ever they want.
Let's just hope that the other game companies don't follow suit with similar "upgrades."

arsenic23
May 2nd, 2010, 03:13 PM
I would think that if it gets to court it will come down to interpretations of definitions in the user agreement.

I highly doubt it. If they can pin some breach of the UCC on Sony then their user agreement would be absolutely useless to bring up in court. Compared to actual laws, regulations, and even legal policy, consumer agreements are very week documents.

ssj6akshat
May 2nd, 2010, 04:07 PM
Torvalds?

No,Geohot.

Chrysantine
May 2nd, 2010, 04:35 PM
As for 'idiot'- I assume you mean that somebody figured out that you could 'backup' games to the other OS, and then play them? You can put whatever other value judgement you want on that, but I'd hardly call the peson (people, probably) who figured this out 'idiot/idiots'.
Geohot is an idiot, there's no doubt about it. His work has enabled piracy on other platforms already.


That would be fair enough...if it wasnt for the fact that there are a lot of people who bought PS3s based on being able to run 'other OS' (lots of distributed computing fans, for one).
All 5 of them? Sounds more like people are simply complaining because they saw a chance to start warezing on the PS3 and now that Sony is blocking that possibility, they're miffed about it.

Humorously, the more I deal with Linux people nowadays, the clearer it is that a large portion of the crowd is openly "pro-warez" which they're desperately trying to hide behind the "DRM is evil!" -mantra. I guess getting everything for free tends to make you get used to it?


I doubt it. Sony might never do it again...but I would guess that Nintendo isnt going to do anything about 'the homebrew channel' that lets people run GeexBox (and probably a ton of other stuff that I dont know about).
Without a doubt they'll increase their security in the future and you can bet other companies are looking at how this whole mess unfolds before making final decisions in the future. No business is going to implement a functionality that has been proven to provide an additional backdoor to the to enable piracy.

TheNosh
May 2nd, 2010, 04:52 PM
I doubt it. Sony might never do it again...but I would guess that Nintendo isnt going to do anything about 'the homebrew channel' that lets people run GeexBox (and probably a ton of other stuff that I dont know about).

speaking as a user of the homebrew channel, you're incorrect. Nintendo has already tried to do something about homebrew, you just don't hear about it much due to a laughable lack of success.

they've issued firmware updates that:

seek and remove hacked twighlight princess save files. (to block use of the twighlight hack)
remove the Hombrew channel. (fixed by updating homebrew channel before updating Wii firmware.)
remove DVDx. (same solution as above.)


so if you're running the Homebrew channel, or playing DVDs on your Wii, or anything related, it's a good idea to do some research online before updating your wii firmware.

MooPi
May 2nd, 2010, 05:07 PM
Once again, everyone is pointing the finger at Sony and not at the idiot who started the whole mess.

As for the backlash from this? You can be sure no one will incorporate an "Other OS" feature in their consoles in the future.
Who are you referring to ? You are sadly mistaken on the intentions and ethical nature of Linux users. Sure it is possible to do the things your referring to but that is the nature of freedom. As Linux users we are able to do things with our computers that is restricted on proprietary machines.Your pointing your finger at the whole Linux community based on a minority response.

Di@blo
May 2nd, 2010, 05:08 PM
Yup, they had it coming.

alexfish
May 2nd, 2010, 05:20 PM
I would think that if it gets to court it will come down to interpretations of definitions in the user agreement.

I don't think it is a simple open & shut case, Sony could very well win it. Whether they think it will be worth the negative publicity & potential loss of sales is another matter.

Though most PS3 users don't give a hoot about the OtherOS function, & it was only really useful to a very small number of users.

I don't know how much of a fuss the claimants are capable of making as far as stirring up the press is concerned, as Sony wouldn't like that.

Also, if they lose in the States, it could start the ball rolling in other countries as well.

if by statement of Fact: From the news article

For instance, there is a 2007 line from Sony's Phil Harrison: "One of the most powerful things about the PS3 is the 'Install Other OS' option." Sony engineer Geoffrey Levand wrote to a PS3 mailing list in August 2009, "Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue to support for previously sold models that have the 'Install Other OS' feature and that this feature will not be disabled in future firmware releases."

It could redeemed that Soni is in the Wrong and certainly Wrong in the eyes of the consumer , This is the case from reading the article

if this lawsuit fails then it is just another case of the $ wins and not the Law. which is so indicative in some counties.

For Me I would want a full refund on the console and all the games I had Purchased for there intended purpose , would Sony honour that . or would it take another Lawsuit

MCVenom
May 2nd, 2010, 06:22 PM
All 5 of them? Sounds more like people are simply complaining because they saw a chance to start warezing on the PS3 and now that Sony is blocking that possibility, they're miffed about it.

People made supercomputers based on clusters of PS3s, the feature was infinitely useful and more than five people used it, thank you very much.


Humorously, the more I deal with Linux people nowadays, the clearer it is that a large portion of the crowd is openly "pro-warez" which they're desperately trying to hide behind the "DRM is evil!" -mantra. I guess getting everything for free tends to make you get used to it?

Mmmhmmm yeah we're all pirating Photoshop for our Linux computers. :rolleyes: There are two sides to it: I've seen Linux users call people out for piracy, even people who pirate Windows... And DRM isn't evil, but it does tend to be largely irritating, and yet largely ineffective, right? It's like locking the video games in glass cases in stores. So now, because some idiots stole a couple video games, I have to spend an hour looking for someone to open the case for me? Only now it's: Because a couple of idiots stole a few video games, you've LOCKED ME OUT OF MY COMPUTER?!?!?!?

Imagine Apple decided that because someone else was stealing some OSX app, they're going to remotely brick every Mac computer in the world. That's how it is for those who used the feature.



Without a doubt they'll increase their security in the future and you can bet other companies are looking at how this whole mess unfolds before making final decisions in the future. No business is going to implement a functionality that has been proven to provide an additional backdoor to the to enable piracy.

I could never understand whose bright idea it was at Sony to implement the 'Other OS' feature, but I recognize it's usefulness, and it was really nice of them to do something like that, which was simply done because someone thought 'wouldn't it be cool if you could use this ultra-powerful hardware and utilize it as a computer?', not because they'd necessarily make any money off of it (in the end they did, because some people bought it solely for such a reason). But, now things will go back to the way they were and require hacking to get another OS to run on x appliance.

Oh well. :|

handy
May 3rd, 2010, 01:25 AM
Good, there are a lot of people who bought their PS3s over the 360 or Wii because of this extra feature.

If a company advertised a specific service and then removed it shortly thereafter, despite many people buying the product for the service, then it is nothing short of false advertising and Sony should be penalized just like every other company that breaks FTC regulations.

My 2.

The license agreement says that they can change their system whenever they want to & that such changes may remove certain functions.

End of story really.

I'll be very surprised if Sony lose a court case on this.

Lightstar
May 3rd, 2010, 02:02 AM
If they win and donate all the winning money to opensource, then I will nod and praise them.

But they will most likely keep the winning moneys to themselves, we wont see any of it, nor will the Ubuntu crew.
This kind of suing, I don't care about. They do it out of greed.

dragos240
May 3rd, 2010, 02:06 AM
Sony < Sega.

phrostbyte
May 3rd, 2010, 02:13 AM
The license agreement says that they can change their system whenever they want to & that such changes may remove certain functions.

End of story really.

I'll be very surprised if Sony loose a court case on this.

Actual written law always trumps what is written in a contract. So the case is really if Sony violated local laws with this change. If they did violate the law, and the plantiff has some reasonable evidence of it, they will probably be hit with a really massive fine, and every PS3 owner could apply for some rebate/refund on their console.

To be able to acquire an injunction against Sony to reinstate the "Other OS feature" is a little more difficult, but not impossible.

If it were to happen like this, it wouldn't be the first time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_CD_copy_protection_scandal) Sony was sued and lost for violation of consumer laws here in the USA.

Hopefully corporate interests will learn that individuals ultimately have more rights then a corporate entity. But I doubt it. :)

Rasa1111
May 3rd, 2010, 02:16 AM
Once again, everyone is pointing the finger at Sony and not at the idiot who started the whole mess.



:lol: laughable.
sony is shady. end of story.

i applaud said "idiot". :KS

murderslastcrow
May 3rd, 2010, 02:35 AM
I've personally been affected by this bug. I was watching tons of videos and downloading a lot of content legally to the PS3 as an alternative to using Cable. Now I can't use any of those applications, and have to resort to using the PS3's yucky web browser. It's quite a pain, since I had to back up all that data, and now there's one less desktop in my house.

I'd like to be paid back, since this decreases the PS3's value. But to be honest, the hypervisor was a pain in the butt, anyway. I hope someone hacks this capability back into it so that we can use the full capabilities of the PS3's processors and RAM.

handy
May 3rd, 2010, 03:59 AM
...I hope someone hacks this capability back into it so that we can use the full capabilities of the PS3's processors and RAM.

Have you seen this:

http://techsnap.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=80&p=400#p400