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View Full Version : Why Ubuntu is Anoying for My Business



asddf
April 30th, 2010, 09:26 AM
Advantages:


Super stable!
Better Email Built Into The Desktop
Messengers designed into the desktop better.
Twitter, Facebook etc ability to push from the desktop(FANTASTIC for Marketing)
Free Office built in.


Now heres where it SUCKS


We need to update websites and PHP, Dreamweaver is the best.........we can't use it on Linux.

We need to edit product images and create leaflets, flyers and web graphics so the industry standard Photoshop.

Visual Studio, no real replacement for it and really needs to be on Windows.

SushiR
April 30th, 2010, 09:31 AM
I really don't see the point in your posting. If a Linux OS isn't for you and Windows IS, so use Windows or dual boot. Besides, there are better tools than Dreamweaver...

fatality_uk
April 30th, 2010, 09:32 AM
Advantages:


Super stable!
Better Email Built Into The Desktop
Messengers designed into the desktop better.
Twitter, Facebook etc ability to push from the desktop(FANTASTIC for Marketing)
Free Office built in.


Now heres where it SUCKS


We need to update websites and PHP, Dreamweaver is the best.........we can't use it on Linux.

We need to edit product images and create leaflets, flyers and web graphics so the industry standard Photoshop.

Visual Studio, no real replacement for it and really needs to be on Windows.


There are alternatives to what your need to use. They may not be as polished as the other apps

alexfish
April 30th, 2010, 09:35 AM
MMM! check the screen shot

TDK800
April 30th, 2010, 10:16 AM
You can use Adobe Photoshop on Ubuntu through wine, very easy, feels just like using it on Windows.

asddf
April 30th, 2010, 10:29 AM
I really don't see the point in your posting. If a Linux OS isn't for you and Windows IS, so use Windows or dual boot. Besides, there are better tools than Dreamweaver...

Theres really not anything that touches Dreamweaver.

My point of the post is, Ubuntu is fantastic, it just needs that commercial software support, or way more wine funding and then it would be ready to completely take over.

Paqman
April 30th, 2010, 10:34 AM
Dreamweaver is the best.........we can't use it on Linux.


It might depend on what version you want. I know MX works extremely well under Wine.

3rdalbum
April 30th, 2010, 11:42 AM
Theres really not anything that touches Dreamweaver.

My point of the post is, Ubuntu is fantastic, it just needs that commercial software support, or way more wine funding and then it would be ready to completely take over.

Codeweavers (which makes Crossover) funds Wine development. Crossover Linux supports Dreamweaver MX - yeah it's not the latest version, but it's still much more powerful then any native Linux web development package.

I believe for PHP, any text editor on Linux will be just as good as Dreamweaver, unless things have changed since I last used Dreamweaver.

You create leaflets and flyers in Photoshop? That's not the correct tool for the job; you should be using QuarkXPress, Indesign, or even Publisher or Scribus. Those programs have real typography controls.

btermeli
April 30th, 2010, 11:51 AM
You can use Quanta Plus besides Dreamweaver

asddf
April 30th, 2010, 12:04 PM
I believe for PHP, any text editor on Linux will be just as good as Dreamweaver, unless things have changed since I last used Dreamweaver.

Text editors, don't give code coloring and formatting.

ssj6akshat
April 30th, 2010, 12:09 PM
Text editors, don't give code coloring and formatting.

gedit(default with ubuntu),Vi,Vim etc. have syntax highlighting and auto-indention

alket
April 30th, 2010, 12:33 PM
Quanta Plus works well, it would be perfect if it wasn't KDE

asddf
April 30th, 2010, 02:34 PM
But has it got the whole package?

Built in HTML editor, Linked to a bunch of browsers for compatability views, built in FTP for fast upload and testing?

Foster Grant
April 30th, 2010, 04:45 PM
But has it got the whole package?

Built in HTML editor, Linked to a bunch of browsers for compatability views, built in FTP for fast upload and testing?

Quanta Plus and KompoZer (both in the Ubuntu repositories) support those features. Quanta Plus matches Dreamweaver feature for feature as an editor and actually supports more web technologies than Dreamweaver.

KompoZer is based on the HTML editor first developed in Netscape Navigator and still included in SeaMonkey, Netscape's successor. It also includes an HTML-code validator.

And they're free, so you can install them from the repositories and try them out for yourself. Try doing that in Dreamweaver. :D

10027586
April 30th, 2010, 04:56 PM
Text editors, don't give code coloring and formatting.
Geany does an excellent job of this.

swoll1980
April 30th, 2010, 05:02 PM
Set up a Windows VM on a server.

donkyhotay
April 30th, 2010, 05:23 PM
Advantages:


Super stable!
Better Email Built Into The Desktop
Messengers designed into the desktop better.
Twitter, Facebook etc ability to push from the desktop(FANTASTIC for Marketing)
Free Office built in.


Now heres where it SUCKS


We need to update websites and PHP, Dreamweaver is the best.........we can't use it on Linux.

We need to edit product images and create leaflets, flyers and web graphics so the industry standard Photoshop.

Visual Studio, no real replacement for it and really needs to be on Windows.


Your post indicates problems/flaws with ubuntu, however your gripes really aren't with ubuntu. It's with software you want to use that isn't linux compatible. Personally I would consider this more of a flaw with the software you are wanting to use then any actual problem with ubuntu (or linux in general). Thats like saying macs are flawed because they don't run specific windows only software. As mentioned previously though, if you are unable to do what you want with ubuntu then use something else. I find ubuntu does everything I need, I don't do a lot of web design myself (and have never used dreamweaver) but I have no issues creating sites with quanta.

MaxIBoy
April 30th, 2010, 05:28 PM
As far as Dreamweaver goes, some people have had limited success with it in WINE, but it's supposedly a real pain to get working.

Well I'm sure you've had The GIMP suggested to you, but really, for "leaflets, flyers, and Web graphics," The GIMP and/or Inkscape are perfect for the job. Editing product images is totally doable as well, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one as doing good photo manipulation is a steep learning curve on The GIMP and your business probably can't afford time to train your employees on it.

The ONLY reason to use Visual Studio is for compiling stuff on/for Windows. I cannot think of any other reason to use it. So yeah, if you're going to be doing Windows development, maybe you need to use Windows at least part of the time? VS sucks for actual development though; I only use it when I actually need to compile something, plus maybe some tweaks to the code to get it compiling. All my actual programming is done in Gedit on Ubuntu. If you install all the plugins, Gedit is actually a very, very powerful text editor-- note I didn't say IDE. IDEs are terrible as a rule (although SPE is pretty cool for Python, in the end I don't like using it.) Visual Studio is a either a really crappy compiler with all this text editing nonsense cluttering it up, or a really crappy text editor with all this compiling nonsense cluttering it up. I really can't tell which. It's better to have exactly one tool for each job.


Maybe you should set up a VM on each workstation. Failing that, have a few Windows workstations for those specific tasks.

asddf
April 30th, 2010, 05:36 PM
Your post indicates problems/flaws with ubuntu, however your gripes really aren't with ubuntu. It's with software you want to use that isn't linux compatible. Personally I would consider this more of a flaw with the software you are wanting to use then any actual problem with ubuntu (or linux in general). Thats like saying macs are flawed because they don't run specific windows only software. As mentioned previously though, if you are unable to do what you want with ubuntu then use something else. I find ubuntu does everything I need, I don't do a lot of web design myself (and have never used dreamweaver) but I have no issues creating sites with quanta.

Actually my post was really the opersit, i'm gutted that it has all these awesome features and I can't use it for my business!

clanky
April 30th, 2010, 05:40 PM
Advantages:


Super stable!
Better Email Built Into The Desktop
Messengers designed into the desktop better.
Twitter, Facebook etc ability to push from the desktop(FANTASTIC for Marketing)
Free Office built in.


Now heres where it SUCKS


We need to update websites and PHP, Dreamweaver is the best.........we can't use it on Linux.

We need to edit product images and create leaflets, flyers and web graphics so the industry standard Photoshop.

Visual Studio, no real replacement for it and really needs to be on Windows.


OK, is it safe to assume from your join date here that you have been using Ubuntu for a month or so? If not then some of this won't apply, but take what you will from it.

You download a free OS, join the forum, give yourself a signature which demands that some company starts making software for your free OS, and then start demanding that your free OS needs to do the things you want it to do.

Do you see how that sounds?

Linux is great for some things, but (especially desktop versions of Linux) are rubbish at other things, it's a fact of life, get over it and use what works for you, unfortunately that may mean that you have to cough up for Windows or Mac, but if you are running a business then that's life.

MaxIBoy
April 30th, 2010, 05:44 PM
Text editors, don't give code coloring and formatting.
Couldn't possibly be more wrong. Notepad is basically the only text editor which doesn't have this.

Here's a screenshot of me using Gedit on Debian:
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9081/aadesk1.th.png (http://img253.imageshack.us/i/aadesk1.png/)


Anyway, why not download and install GIMP, Inkscape, and OpenOffice on your businesses computers? All of these programs have Windows versions. This way you can predict how productive people will be using Ubuntu, and they can still use their other software if they have to.

ade234uk
April 30th, 2010, 06:09 PM
Advantages:


Super stable!
Better Email Built Into The Desktop
Messengers designed into the desktop better.
Twitter, Facebook etc ability to push from the desktop(FANTASTIC for Marketing)
Free Office built in.


Now heres where it SUCKS


We need to update websites and PHP, Dreamweaver is the best.........we can't use it on Linux.

We need to edit product images and create leaflets, flyers and web graphics so the industry standard Photoshop.

Visual Studio, no real replacement for it and really needs to be on Windows.


You can run Dreamweaver 8 and Photoshop 7 without any problems in Ubuntu using Wine.

Dreamweaver 8
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=3482

Photoshop 7
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=1336

You need to install Wine. Just goto Ubuntu Software Centre and type Wine
Install it.

Then install Dreamweaver and Photoshop like you would in Windows

Delever
April 30th, 2010, 06:31 PM
Don't use Ubuntu on those computers that need such monstrosities as Visual Studio or Dreamweaver.

Let me guess: web development, ASP.NET?

Migration path: change your business! << sounds funny, I know. But let me explain.

For example, hosting for ASP.NET on IIS6 (and more so on IIS7) usually costs higher than on Apache. You can consider expanding your business and web development by hiring some new PHP developers, who are comfortable with Linux. Maybe start by doing smaller projects on PHP, leave those bigger web applications for ASP.NET.

And there are lots of high-quality tools available on Ubuntu for PHP. Not only that, but such environments like Eclipse work on Windows too, so you don't need to migrate right-away, and you will have tools available on all platforms.

You may still need to keep web designers on Windows, but I have a guess that they are not majority of the team, and by changing your workflow process a bit, they can supply graphics and templates for developers just as easily.

Thats how you do it. Play on atvantages of new system instead of complaining that it doesn't do what it is not supposed to do.

asddf
April 30th, 2010, 06:44 PM
I don't do ASP.net

I use

PHP
C++
HTML
CSS
Actionscript

I have 3 full webservers that are all Apache.

Dragonbite
April 30th, 2010, 06:46 PM
Now heres where it SUCKS

We need to update websites and PHP, Dreamweaver is the best.........we can't use it on Linux.

We need to edit product images and create leaflets, flyers and web graphics so the industry standard Photoshop.

Visual Studio, no real replacement for it and really needs to be on Windows.


For PHP, look around and there are alternatives that include syntax coloring and code completion including
Eclips with PHP plugin
Aptana
Netbeans
Bluefish (2.0 has just been released, don't know if it handles code-completion)
Kompozer, though I am not really happy with it yet
Quanta Plus
Yes, Dreamweaver is pretty good, but don't get spoiled by what the application does for you. All you need to do is have to clean up after FrontPage to learn that lesson!

You may not like Gimp, but have you looked at Scribus for layout and CinePaint? CinePaint is Gimp but a little more raw and more powerful. it includes greater color depth. There is also Krita and other image manipulating programs. Plus there is Inkscape, OpenOffice Draw, Xara Xtreme and Karbon14 if you want to do SVG graphics.

Visual Studio? So are you working with ASP.NET sites too, or what's the use of this? It doesn't handle PHP very well, I've been looking. If you want the ease of Visual Studio I've found NetBeans to be the closest thing so far with PHP, CSS, Javascript, (Java.. but don't use it) and database connections. At work I use Visual Studio for ASP.NET.

If it has to be .NET you can also look at Monodevelop as Mono is the open source implementation of .NET, thus most code written in Mono will work in .NET and vice-verse. Not only does it work in Linux, it makes .NET truly cross-platform (Win/Mac/*nix). There is even a plug-in you can purchase to code for iPhones in .NET!

If you are going to change OSes for a business then this should be included in your risk assessment.

If you need something that acts like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, then get a duck! Don't use Linux and expect everything to work the same as it does in other systems.

I don't know ANYTHING about ActionScript.

Dragonbite
April 30th, 2010, 06:48 PM
Maybe before jumping in head-first, should first convert all of the existing tools you can to an open source alternative (such as Eclipse or NetBeans) on the front-end.

Once you have all of the tools moved over, then changing the OS is a piece of cake.

ubuntu27
April 30th, 2010, 06:50 PM
I believe for PHP, any text editor on Linux will be just as good as Dreamweaver, unless things have changed since I last used Dreamweaver.



Text editors, don't give code coloring and formatting.

Window's text editor Notepad might be the only text editor that does support formatting and coloring.

Ubuntu (Gnome)'s text Editor Gedit is much more powerful than what people might imagine.


Check out the following links:

Customizing gedit as a Web Developerís IDE (http://www.micahcarrick.com/09-29-2007/gedit-html-editor.html)

Tweak Gedit into a Programmers IDE (http://blog.tuxcoder.com/2008/02/tweak-gedit-into-programmers-ide.html)

5 Must-Have Gedit Plugins for Programmers (http://yaserxp.wordpress.com/2008/09/03/5-must-have-gedit-plugins-for-programmers/)

Delever
April 30th, 2010, 06:55 PM
I don't do ASP.net

I use

PHP
C++
HTML
CSS
Actionscript

I have 3 full webservers that are all Apache.

You said it in such a way like you actually use C++ for web development. Those developers that need to use ActionScript, can stay on windows machines.

Same thing applies: make sure developers are comfortable with their tools, don't force them to migrate. Use best tools for the job, have workflow processes in your team that can include someone on another platform.

Actually, you are better off complaining on MS or Adobe forums. There are powerfull tools available on linux for all kinds of jobs: smart people manage to figure out how to use them quite successfully.

EDIT: by the way, for PHP, check out Eclipse for PHP developers (http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/). It has highlighting, true auto-completition, can handle very complicated PHP files. You can try it on Windows too.

Maheriano
April 30th, 2010, 06:57 PM
I absolutely have to comment on this and hopefully put an end to this thread.
I run my own business doing very high end websites for various businesses. I have only Ubuntu on my laptop and only Ubuntu on my desktop, I haven't run into any issues yet with any of my sites.

1. As stated, gEdit does do text highlighting, it's only Notepad that doesn't because it sucks.
2. If you need a visual editor like Dreamweaver for making websites, you shouldn't be making websites. I just created phase one of a website for a company with a complete user management system and database access for getting price quotes for customers, it's thousands of lines of code, I wrote it all by hand in gEdit. I have NVU, Bluefish and Quanta installed on my system but I don't use them.

3. If you can't use GIMP then I'd be surprised if you can figure out Photoshop. Besides, you should be using Illustrator for what you're describing, not Photoshop.

4. You can check browser compatibility, just load Firefox and Chrome. The compatibility models in Dreamweaver will never work as good as actually loading the page in that browser, it's not the same. And just forget about Internet Explorer, I don't even check it. It failed the Acid3 test at 14%, why would I waste my time on it?

5. If you're developing in Visual Studio, then you're developing for Microsoft platforms. And if that's the case then you need to test it and that requires Microsoft Windows. So why would you even try running Ubuntu?


You need the right tools for the job and Ubuntu is not the right tool for you. It is for me and I love it, I created a pile of sites with it.

Wiebelhaus
April 30th, 2010, 07:04 PM
Advantages:


Super stable!
Better Email Built Into The Desktop
Messengers designed into the desktop better.
Twitter, Facebook etc ability to push from the desktop(FANTASTIC for Marketing)
Free Office built in.


Now heres where it SUCKS


We need to update websites and PHP, Dreamweaver is the best.........we can't use it on Linux.

We need to edit product images and create leaflets, flyers and web graphics so the industry standard Photoshop.

Visual Studio, no real replacement for it and really needs to be on Windows.


Dreamweaver is supported by Code Weavers "Crossover" (http://www.codeweavers.com/).

98cwitr
April 30th, 2010, 07:17 PM
Couldn't possibly be more wrong. Notepad is basically the only text editor which doesn't have this.

Here's a screenshot of me using Gedit on Debian:
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9081/aadesk1.th.png (http://img253.imageshack.us/i/aadesk1.png/)


Anyway, why not download and install GIMP, Inkscape, and OpenOffice on your businesses computers? All of these programs have Windows versions. This way you can predict how productive people will be using Ubuntu, and they can still use their other software if they have to.

i like that theme, what is that?

asddf
April 30th, 2010, 07:18 PM
Ok there seems to be some confusion here

Visual Studio is used for visual C++, C++ is nothing to do with web design or development.

asddf
April 30th, 2010, 07:20 PM
4. You can check browser compatibility, just load Firefox and Chrome. The compatibility models in Dreamweaver will never work as good as actually loading the page in that browser, it's not the same. And just forget about Internet Explorer, I don't even check it. It failed the Acid3 test at 14%, why would I waste my time on it?

We don't isolate 80% of the internet, we create content for ALL users.

gletob
April 30th, 2010, 07:24 PM
Advantages:


Super stable!
Better Email Built Into The Desktop
Messengers designed into the desktop better.
Twitter, Facebook etc ability to push from the desktop(FANTASTIC for Marketing)
Free Office built in.


Now heres where it SUCKS


We need to update websites and PHP, Dreamweaver is the best.........we can't use it on Linux.

We need to edit product images and create leaflets, flyers and web graphics so the industry standard Photoshop.

Visual Studio, no real replacement for it and really needs to be on Windows.


Your title should be "Why you shouldn't give a crap about me not liking a free open source product"

Delever
April 30th, 2010, 07:26 PM
We don't isolate 80% of the internet, we create content for ALL users.

Great thing to do. How do you test IE6, IE7, and IE8 browsers on Windows? You need separate windows instalation (or virtual machine) anyway, just to test on older IE.

Delever
April 30th, 2010, 07:31 PM
Ok there seems to be some confusion here

Visual Studio is used for visual C++, C++ is nothing to do with web design or development.

And developer in your company starts the day by writing action script game, fix bugs in C++ application before dinner, then resumes his day by creating templates in dreamweaver and exceptional website design on photoshop, creates several new CSS stylesheets and finished his day by writing piece of PHP.

Awesome! Don't change that.

98cwitr
April 30th, 2010, 07:41 PM
We don't isolate 80% of the internet, we create content for ALL basic or home users.


Fixed. Linux is not for everyone. I'm a Windows System Analyst. I could not use Linux at my job for the work I do on our MS systems. No, don't even think about suggesting a virtual machine, it's inefficient and pointless from an administrative standpoint.

Now, for home use, Linux imho is the ONLY way to go. For business productivity...you might need Windows. For AMP capabilities, go Linux...

Linux and Businesses mix in the following areas:
Web Hosting and Applications (dev, prod, etc)
Database admin
LDAP (email)
Help Desk
DHCP
DNS
Firewalls, sec. appliances, etc.

I could keep going, but I digress. The point is that Microsoft has a firm place for medium and large business because of compatibility, productivity, and Active Directory

Until linux is fully front and backwards compatible with all MS proprietary extensions, applications, and services and OpenOffice can keep up (and not play catch-up with MS), it's not going to find a place in the workplace other than a dedicated server role.

Swerve1000
April 30th, 2010, 07:42 PM
If Ubuntu supported Visual Studio I would go Ubuntu full-time in a heartbeat.

I've tried in many editions of Ubuntu to install Visual Studio in a XP virtual machine using VirtualBox, but it's always crashed for me.

I'm sat here right now considering if I should reformat and install 10.04 (I find dual-booting impractical), but I just can't do it.

Shame, I love to support Open Source where-ever possible.

MaxIBoy
April 30th, 2010, 07:43 PM
i like that theme, what is that?SlicknesS-black:
http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Slickness+Black?content=73210


Ok there seems to be some confusion here

Visual Studio is used for visual C++, C++ is nothing to do with web design or development.Fair enough, but it doesn't change my point that you don't need it just for the syntax highlighting.

98cwitr
April 30th, 2010, 07:45 PM
i think ill install that when I get home :)

Maheriano
April 30th, 2010, 07:49 PM
We don't isolate 80% of the internet, we create content for ALL users.
Right but if the user insists on using an inferior web browser, I'm not going to cater to them. What if your users insisted on using a PSP for browsing your website and it didn't work properly. Would you fix it? No way, tell them to use something normal. Internet Explorer's the devil.

Delever
April 30th, 2010, 07:51 PM
Right but if the user insists on using an inferior web browser, I'm not going to cater to them. What if your users insisted on using a PSP for browsing your website and it didn't work properly. Would you fix it? No way, tell them to use something normal. Internet Explorer's the devil.

I envy you that you are able to convert your users. Or maybe you just can afford to loose them?

phrostbyte
April 30th, 2010, 07:59 PM
If Ubuntu supported Visual Studio I would go Ubuntu full-time in a heartbeat.

I've tried in many editions of Ubuntu to install Visual Studio in a XP virtual machine using VirtualBox, but it's always crashed for me.

I'm sat here right now considering if I should reformat and install 10.04 (I find dual-booting impractical), but I just can't do it.

Shame, I love to support Open Source where-ever possible.

Try MonoDevelop (apt:monodevelop). It is similar to Visual Studio. Eclipse also, but that is more for Java and C++.

Dragonbite
April 30th, 2010, 08:05 PM
Fixed. Linux is not for everyone. I'm a Windows System Analyst. I could not use Linux at my job for the work I do on our MS systems. No, don't even think about suggesting a virtual machine, it's inefficient and pointless from an administrative standpoint.

Now, for home use, Linux imho is the ONLY way to go. For business productivity...you might need Windows. For AMP capabilities, go Linux...

I'm similar.. Windows and .NET/SQL Server, etc. at work and Linux at home.

That's why I'm fooling around with PHP right now, and having fun.