list of oldest to newest country/civilization in the world?

[sudoer541]

Does anyone know if there is a list of the oldest civilization/country to the newest one?

[tica vun]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilisation#History

[whiskeylover]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization_%28series%29#Main_series


Civilization (1991)
Civilization II (1996)

Civilization II: Conflicts in Civilization (1996), the first expansion pack for Civilization II.
Civilization II: Fantastic Worlds (1997), the second expansion pack for Civilization II.
Civilization II: Test of Time (1999), the original plus new scenarios and improved detail, including the ability to continue play on an alien landscape.


Civilization III (2001)

Civilization III: Play the World (2002), the first expansion pack for Civilization III.
Civilization III: Conquests (2003), the second and final expansion for Civilization III.


Civilization IV (2005)

Civilization IV: Warlords (2006), the first expansion pack for Civilization IV.
Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword (2007), the second expansion pack for Civilization IV.



Civilization IV: Colonization (2008 ), a spin-off based on Sid Meier's 1994 game, Colonization.

Civilization Revolution (2008 )
Civilization Network (2010) (announced), a full Civilization game for Facebook.
Civilization V (2010) (announced)

[sudoer541]

So the first civilization was the Iraqis??? LOL???

[bgreenaway]

When does the United States get on the list?\\:D/

[tica vun]

So the first civilization was the Iraqis??? LOL???

You're reffering to the Sumerian civilisation. It existed in roughly the area where Iraq is today, yes. How old are you? That's taught in elementary history. As is the wrongness of the assumption that geographical area translates into nationality across millennia.

[Phrea]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization_%28series%29#Main_series


Civilization (1991)
Civilization II (1996)

Civilization II: Conflicts in Civilization (1996), the first expansion pack for Civilization II.
Civilization II: Fantastic Worlds (1997), the second expansion pack for Civilization II.
Civilization II: Test of Time (1999), the original plus new scenarios and improved detail, including the ability to continue play on an alien landscape.


Civilization III (2001)

Civilization III: Play the World (2002), the first expansion pack for Civilization III.
Civilization III: Conquests (2003), the second and final expansion for Civilization III.


Civilization IV (2005)

Civilization IV: Warlords (2006), the first expansion pack for Civilization IV.
Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword (2007), the second expansion pack for Civilization IV.



Civilization IV: Colonization (2008 ), a spin-off based on Sid Meier's 1994 game, Colonization.

Civilization Revolution (2008 )
Civilization Network (2010) (announced), a full Civilization game for Facebook.
Civilization V (2010) (announced)


:lolflag:

[sudoer541]

You're reffering to the Sumerian civilization. It existed in roughly the area where Iraq is today, yes. How old are you? That's taught in elementary history. As is the wrongness of the assumption that geographical area translates into nationality across millennia.


So, the Summerians and the Iraqis are the same people? Why did they change thier name? kinda confused here.

I think I studied this when I was in elementary school, but I cant remember.

[earthpigg]

So, the Summerians and the Iraqis are the same people? Why did they change thier name? kinda confused here.

I think I studied this when I was in elementary school, but I cant remember.

no, they are not the same people. different languages, and entirely different culture.

and regarding the original post: define "country/civilization"? very broad terms you have, there. can you pick one and define it clearly?

and if you say 'culture', can you please define that very clearly?

we need to get that semantic argument settled before moving on to any possible discussion about conclusions.

[sudoer541]

no, they are not the same people. different languages, and entirely different culture.

and regarding the original post: define "country/civilization"? very broad terms you have, there. can you pick one and define it clearly?

and if you say 'culture', can you please define that very clearly?

we need to get that semantic argument settled before moving on to any possible discussion about conclusions.

What I wanted was, a list of the oldest to newest civilizations on earth (starting with the oldest civilization to the newest.) This also applies to the countries of the world.
It looks like the Wikipedia link provided above gives me a rough idea though, but I also want a list of specific countries regarding the same subject.
BTW How did the Summerian culture change from the Summerians to modern Iraqis if they are not the same people? And where did the original people go? Do they still exist? (got me wondering now)
I see lots other cultures in there such as the Babylonians (Which I have a small knowledge of them) and other cultures.

[Dj Melik]

I come from a very old civilization (Armenia).

[koenn]

What I wanted was, a list of the oldest to newest civilizations on earth (starting with the oldest civilization to the newest.) This also applies to the countries of the world.
It looks like the Wikipedia link provided above gives me a rough idea though, but I also want a list of specific countries regarding the same subject.
BTW How did the Summerian culture change from the Summerians to modern Iraqis if they are not the same people? And where did the original people go? Do they still exist? (got me wondering now)
I see lots other cultures in there such as the Babylonians (Which I have a small knowledge of them) and other cultures.

Don't know what happened to the Sumerians in particular, but wat usually happens is a culture evolves, reaches some kind of optimum, declines, and gets run over by another one that's on the rise somewhere nearby. You're talking a period of 5000 years or more here ; people migrate, groups become extinct or mixed with/assimilated in a conquering people's culture, ...

As for mapping this to countries : borders shift over time, most "countries" you know of today were formed in the past 200-500 years or so, while you're looking at 5000 -10000 years of history.


always a good start : wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iraq

[agnes]

Civilization is not uniformly defined.
Oswald Spengler made a civilization model, it is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spengler%27s_civilization_model).

He had this idea that each civilization always went through the same phases.
He also made the categories: spiritual, artistic and political; for what comprised a civilization.
For each of the categories, spiritual/artistic/political, the phases and when they took place are listed, for the corresponding civilizations.

So you can see there, which geographical region/country was first in what.

As far as I can see the regions under the category 'Egyptian' were first in two categories, including Sumer in the 'artistic' category.

Of course the category thing and the phases are his idea and people might disagree with his choices of categories and phases, but it imho, it gives a good rough idea.

[Crunchy the Headcrab]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization_%28series%29#Main_series


Civilization (1991)
Civilization II (1996)

Civilization II: Conflicts in Civilization (1996), the first expansion pack for Civilization II.
Civilization II: Fantastic Worlds (1997), the second expansion pack for Civilization II.
Civilization II: Test of Time (1999), the original plus new scenarios and improved detail, including the ability to continue play on an alien landscape.


Civilization III (2001)

Civilization III: Play the World (2002), the first expansion pack for Civilization III.
Civilization III: Conquests (2003), the second and final expansion for Civilization III.


Civilization IV (2005)

Civilization IV: Warlords (2006), the first expansion pack for Civilization IV.
Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword (2007), the second expansion pack for Civilization IV.



Civilization IV: Colonization (2008 ), a spin-off based on Sid Meier's 1994 game, Colonization.


Civilization Revolution (2008 )
Civilization Network (2010) (announced), a full Civilization game for Facebook.
Civilization V (2010) (announced)


I know it's not canon, but Call To Power was the bomb!

[uc50_ic4more]

So the first civilization was the Iraqis??? LOL???

Depending on how you define "civilization", it was always my understanding that what is *now* the nation of Iraq was the "cradle of civilization".

[weichimaster]

Depending on how you define "civilization", it was always my understanding that what is *now* the nation of Iraq was the "cradle of civilization".

That's my understanding as well.

I highly recommend the book "Guns, germs and stee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel)l" by Jared Diamond. It looks at the history of civilisation, and asks why various cultures to progress technololgically at different rates, and why various countries have conquered others. (The clue to his answer is in the title of the book. It's due to geographical accidence.)

[maxinquaye]

I highly recommend the book "Guns, germs and steel" by Jared Diamond. It looks at the history of civilisation, and asks why various cultures to progress technololgically at different rates, and why various countries have conquered others. (The clue to his answer is in the title of the book. It's due to geographical accidence.)

Not incidentally, Jared Diamond is also the author of the very excellent "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed (http://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Societies-Choose-Fail-Succeed/dp/0670033375)", where he examines why human societies undergo economic and social collapse, and even extinction.

[MasterNetra]

Depending on how you define "civilization", it was always my understanding that what is *now* the nation of Iraq was the "cradle of civilization".

The land Iraq is on hosted the oldest known civilization, but Iraq as a nation and culture is not the oldest. It just occupies the land.

As for the list of Oldest to newest civilizations that would probably be a long list and there very well maybe civilizations that came and went that have been forgotten and are lost to time.

[sudoer541]

The land Iraq is on hosted the oldest known civilization, but Iraq as a nation and culture is not the oldest. It just occupies the land.

As for the list of Oldest to newest civilizations that would probably be a long list and there very well maybe civilizations that came and went that have been forgotten and are lost to time.


I wonder, what would happen if those Summerians and Babylonians still existed till this day.
I am sure they would have invented tons of stuff. But they dont exist anymore right???
I was reading about those ancient Iraqis and OMG!!! these guys invented almost everything we use today like: Beer, astrology, wheels, math,law, science, writing and more.

[standingwave]

Oswald Spengler made a civilization model, it is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spengler%27s_civilization_model)."Would you rather live in the ascendancy of a civilization, or during its decline?"

[Ric_NYC]

I close my eyes
Only for a moment, then the moment's gone
All my dreams
Pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind
All they are is dust in the wind




Back to the subject... :)



http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/719/mapoffertilecresent.png
The Fertile Crescent is a region in Western Asia. It includes the comparatively fertile regions of Mesopotamia and the Levant, delimited by the dry climate of the Syrian Desert to the south and the Anatolian highlands to the north. The region is often considered the cradle of civilization, saw the development of many of the earliest human civilizations, and is the birthplace of writing and the wheel. (Wikipedia)

[malspa]

I highly recommend the book "Guns, germs and stee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel)l" by Jared Diamond.


Not incidentally, Jared Diamond is also the author of the very excellent "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed (http://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Societies-Choose-Fail-Succeed/dp/0670033375)"

Both are great books! I've often hoped that many of our world leaders would read them.

[Dr Belka]

Babel is old. Not Babylon. Babel

[earthpigg]

BTW How did the Summerian culture change from the Summerians to modern Iraqis if they are not the same people? And where did the original people go? Do they still exist? (got me wondering now)
I see lots other cultures in there such as the Babylonians (Which I have a small knowledge of them) and other cultures.

you know how rape and pillage works, right?

kill or enslave all the men, and rape all the women. if you are powerful within your own society, see to it that the women you raped are taken care of, along with their children, if they become preggers. repeat with the women raped by these "princes".

taken to the extreme: 8% of the men of some nations are directly descended (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_from_Genghis_Khan#DNA_evidence_-_Genghis_Khan_Effect) from Genghis Khan.

Also consider: the Kingdom of Saud has somewhere around 5,000 Princes, all descended from one man. Every government minister and diplomat is of that house. Guess which 5,000 people in Saudi Arabia are most likely to have the most children, and have the best educated children? Future ministers and men of influence, who will themselves have many well educated, wealthy, and influential children. This is another extreme example of cultural shift.

Since Sumeria:

Persian Empire.
Alexander of Macedon.
Islam.

Each of these had drastic and lasting effects on the former "Sumerian Peoples". There are others, too, of course.


And today, we have Iraq... which is just a line on a map, anyways. Tell a Kurd he is part of the "Iraqi Civilization", and have fun with his response.

EDIT: don't forget President Bush's cousin, President Obama. (www.newenglandancestors.org/pdfs/obama_bush.pdf)

[wilee-nilee]

Archaeoligists have found the remants of full societies in America that are 10,000 years old. Archeaology also suggests that due to burial sites of a ritual nature, that are as old as 80,000 years, that the commonality among most belief system of a higher power of sorts was being practiced.

The topic at large is probably impossible to answer in any empirical manner.

[Paqman]

There's really only one civilisation that's also a country: China. All the other nations of the world are recent inventions. In fact the whole idea of nationality is a pretty recent idea. In feudal societies (for example) your allegiance lay with an individual, not the state.

[Chronon]

There's really only one civilisation that's also a country: China. All the other nations of the world are recent inventions. In fact the whole idea of nationality is a pretty recent idea. In feudal societies (for example) your allegiance lay with an individual, not the state.

The People's Republic of China has only existed since 1949. Also, China is a massively multi-ethnic nation. Which of these civilizations do you refer to when drawing a parallel to the modern nation?

[pommie]

Just to throw the cat among the pigeons :P

Oldest Civilization may be in Antarctica http://www.ufodigest.com/antarctica.html

Cheers David

[VCoolio]

There's really only one civilisation that's also a country: China. All the other nations of the world are recent inventions. In fact the whole idea of nationality is a pretty recent idea. In feudal societies (for example) your allegiance lay with an individual, not the state.

Then what about Egypt? But I agree with Chronon that you can't compare current countries with ancient cultures that had (or were given) the same name.
Also there is much debate on which is the oldest. Some try to argue that an ancient Indian / hinduist culture existed before the Egyptians came into play. You can imagine there are political / religious strings attached to this debate.
Anyway, there isn't really an answer. You want the oldest country? Then you can't really go back any further than the Middle Ages, since nations / states are an early modern concept. You want the oldest civilisation? Then what is civilised? Find the oldest skull in Africa and the remains of an axe and there it is. It's all somewhat arbitrary. And who cares. Just visit the museum and admire the achievements of the people of old.

[Khakilang]

I think there are 3 countries that the oldest to the newest. They are Egypt, India and China. Their civilisation were dated something like 10,000 years. Whereas in China they found human bones dated 50,000 years call the Peking man.

[Chronon]

I think there are 3 countries that the oldest to the newest. They are Egypt, India and China. Their civilisation were dated something like 10,000 years. Whereas in China they found human bones dated 50,000 years call the Peking man.

I believe Peking Man represents homo erectus rather than homo sapiens and is more like 500,000 years old.

[cascade9]

As soon as you go past about 3000 BCE, you are well ant truely in the world of the archaeologists, and there are issues with the worldview they tend to have. (I'll go into that if anyone really cares....well, if I can without bringing up religion to much)

There are 3 reasons why the fertile crescent (modern Iraq/partf of Iran though to Egpyt via parts of Turkey, Syria, Lebanaon, Isreal and Jordan) is the 'oldest'-

1- Its where they look! There are more excavations in that area than the rest of the world, combined.

2- Weather conditions. Its pretty dry in that part of the world, and water is a major cause of distruction of artifacts (which is the main way that the archaeologists gather evidence). A civilisation in, say, central america would have much less chance of leaving any evidence from 5000 years+ ago.

3- They are river based civilisations. Which normally wouldnt mean that much, but check out teh water levels of the world circa 5000-7000 years ago. The majority of the world population has always lived at low levels, and most of the places where people would have lived pre-3000 BCE is underwater.


The People's Republic of China has only existed since 1949. Also, China is a massively multi-ethnic nation. Which of these civilizations do you refer to when drawing a parallel to the modern nation?

Exactly.


I believe Peking Man represents homo erectus rather than homo sapiens and is more like 500,000 years old.

Peking Man is homo erectus, but the dates are being pushed out to 650,000-700,00 with newer dating techniques.


Anyway, there isn't really an answer. You want the oldest country? Then you can't really go back any further than the Middle Ages, since nations / states are an early modern concept. You want the oldest civilisation? Then what is civilised? Find the oldest skull in Africa and the remains of an axe and there it is. It's all somewhat arbitrary. And who cares. Just visit the museum and admire the achievements of the people of old.

Umm...no, IMO. Nations/states exist well into before that. Check out the Egyptians writing on the other states (like the Mesopotamian states and the Hitties) or even the Greeks at Troy (while they were all city-states, that counts...and even with the disunified city-states of Greece there was already a certain amount of 'nation' in the way that the Greeks acted before and during the Trojan war).

[Paqman]

The People's Republic of China has only existed since 1949.

Indeed, but the current regime is really just another phase of China's continuous existence as a discrete entity that goes back to unification in 221BC. Various dynasties have come and gone, with foreign powers holding sway at various times, but China itself has endured. Geographically the area united by Qin Shihuang is pretty similar to the modern nation, and culturally they've maintained a separate identity and language powerful enough to dominate the whole region throughout history.



Also, China is a massively multi-ethnic nation. Which of these civilizations do you refer to when drawing a parallel to the modern nation?

Ethnicity is not the same as civilisation. The Roman Empire was incredibly multi-ethnic, but you wouldn't deny them the "civilisation" tag. You could also argue that China is a lot less diverse than it used to be, with the twin juggernauts of Han domination and Communist ideology homogenising the culture.

As for Egypt, their civilisation flopped 2500 years ago, as evidenced by the fact there is no such language as Egyptian. Modern Egypt is an Arab state.

[cascade9]

Indeed, but the current regime is really just another phase of China's continuous existence as a discrete entity that goes back to unification in 221BC.

Continous? No. There has been various periods when China was made up of several kingdoms, and it was never a 'discrete entity'. More an amalgamation of various cultures and kingdoms/provinces.


Various dynasties have come and gone, with foreign powers holding sway at various times, but China itself has endured. Geographically the area united by Qin Shihuang is pretty similar to the modern nation, and culturally they've maintained a separate identity and language powerful enough to dominate the whole region throughout history.

The area that Qin Shihuang is a lot smaller than modern china....a huge amount smaller.

The dynasties had various different offical languages, sizes, borders, capital locations and 'orbits'.

As for 'maintained a separate identity and language'- yes, most of the provinces did. No single province, or language has dominated the whole area over the 220 BCE-2000CE era.


Ethnicity is not the same as civilisation. The Roman Empire was incredibly multi-ethnic, but you wouldn't deny them the "civilisation" tag. You could also argue that China is a lot less diverse than it used to be, with the twin juggernauts of Han domination and Communist ideology homogenising the culture.

Rome may have incorporated a large area, but its not comparable to China.

China is probably governed more centrally than at any point in the past, yet the language, customs, etc of the provinces remains intact. Its going to take a lot longer 60 years or so for there to be any real change in that, the northerners have been trying to 'homogenise' the southern and western states for a very long time.....with little sucess.


As for Egypt, their civilisation flopped 2500 years ago, as evidenced by the fact there is no such language as Egyptian. Modern Egypt is an Arab state.

'Flopped'? Hardly. They might haev been conquered by the Persians, Greco-Macadonians, Romans (then Byzantines took it over), Persians again, then absobed into the Islamic Empire but they exerted a massive infulence on a lot of the civilisations who ended up running them.

There is still egyptian. Its coptic now. Very few speakers left, but its doing better than a lot of the languages that old.

As for 'arab'- arabic is the offical spoken language there, but there are lots of Egyptians who dont consider themselves 'arabs' at all.

[Paqman]

Continous? No. There has been various periods when China was made up of several kingdoms, and it was never a 'discrete entity'. More an amalgamation of various cultures and kingdoms/provinces.


Indeed it is, but one that's been recognisably existent throughout history. AFAIK the country mostly splintered in the interregnum periods between major dynasties (much like Egypt), but the rise of the next dynasty tended to restore roughly the previous borders. Again, much like Egypt.



The area that Qin Shihuang is a lot smaller than modern china....a huge amount smaller.

Ok, fair enough, but that area contains most of the population and major cities.


The dynasties had various different offical languages, sizes, borders, capital locations and 'orbits'.

Of course.


As for 'maintained a separate identity and language'- yes, most of the provinces did. No single province, or language has dominated the whole area over the 220 BCE-2000CE era.

No, and to be honest I wouldn't expect them to over such a long time period.



Rome may have incorporated a large area, but its not comparable to China.

I didn't say it was. My point was that a civilisation can be multi-ethnic. In fact i'd say it's the norm.


China is probably governed more centrally than at any point in the past, yet the language, customs, etc of the provinces remains intact. Its going to take a lot longer 60 years or so for there to be any real change in that, the northerners have been trying to 'homogenise' the southern and western states for a very long time.....with little sucess.

It's a big country, with a lot of history, so there's bound to be variation.

The influence of the West will be interesting though, as one of the main criticisms of Western culture is the homogenising influence it's having on the world.


'Flopped'? Hardly.

Yep, flopped. Ancient Egyptian civilisation did fall into decline and end.


There is still egyptian. Its coptic now. Very few speakers left, but its doing better than a lot of the languages that old.

I think that just reinforces the point I was making.



As for 'arab'- arabic is the offical spoken language there, but there are lots of Egyptians who dont consider themselves 'arabs' at all.

That's mostly down to nationalism though, in the same way that many British don't consider themselves European.

[weichimaster]

There is still egyptian. Its coptic now. Very few speakers left, but its doing better than a lot of the languages that old.

As for 'arab'- arabic is the offical spoken language there, but there are lots of Egyptians who dont consider themselves 'arabs' at all.

My understanding is the Egyptian Arabic is very different from standard Arabic.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Arabic

(The only Egyptian Arabic I know is:

bukra fil mish mish.)

[sudoer541]

I have actually seen some Coptic (Egyptians) at work and they speak Coptic. Coptic sounds like Greek as they said. So Egyptians still exists, but I am not sure about Summerians/Babylonians/mesopotamians etc.

[cascade9]

Indeed it is, but one that's been recognisably existent throughout history. AFAIK the country mostly splintered in the interregnum periods between major dynasties (much like Egypt), but the rise of the next dynasty tended to restore roughly the previous borders. Again, much like Egypt.

I'd check your borders for the different dynasties in china- there is quite a bit of variation, and its not just minor.

Egypt is a different question, it had very defined boundries- lower Egypt is the delta, upper Egypt from the end of the delta to the 1st cataract (Elephantine, modern Aswan). Everything beyond that was considered Nubia (but Egypt almost always controlled some of what is was considered Nubia)


Ok, fair enough, but that area contains most of the population and major cities.

Depends on what maps you look at, and who you want to believe. Most of southern China was probably not under direct control, if any control was exerted at all. All the states conquored by Qin Shihuang was northern/central.

The south has always had a huge population and some major cities.


Yep, flopped. Ancient Egyptian civilisation did fall into decline and end.

As did the Sumerians, Babylonians, Hitties, Persians, Greeks, Romans and everyone elses civilisations. Just decline and fall does not make them a 'flop'.

The Greeks and Romans were both fascinated by the Egyptians, and the Romans nicked more stuff from Egypt than anybody before, or after. Lots of obelisks got carted to Rome, and its not like the Romans couldnt build thier own....


I think that just reinforces the point I was making.

Because Coptic has few speakers, it means that Egypt flopped? LOL. Hittie was gone by 1200BCE, Luwian (another hittie language) by 600BCE, Akkadian by 200CE, Sumerian was unused except as a 'classical' language by 1600BCE, and was deader than a dodo by 100CE.

Of all the languages used by ancient civilisations in the middle east, Egyptian has lasted by far the longest. A mark of sucess IMO. A minimum of 5400 years is a very long run for any language (and that is absolute minimum)


That's mostly down to nationalism though, in the same way that many British don't consider themselves European.

Actually, its more about the definiton of 'arab' and the histroy of the arabic world. I would go into that further but I'm be going to far into religion and making comments that could be.....er....considered racist by some groups.


I didn't say it was. My point was that a civilisation can be multi-ethnic. In fact i'd say it's the norm.

Debateable point. It would depend on what exactly you call 'multi-ethnic'. For example- Rome did incorporate a large number of ethnic groups, cultures and langauges, but the only language that mattered was latin- if you didnt speak latin, you could not be a Roman. If you call that multi-ethnic, then virtually any conquering civilisation is 'multi-ethinic'.

Lots of civilisations were not conquering, and if you listen to the archaeologists had no contact with any other civilistaions at all (I personally have some issues with this, but that is neither here nor there).

[Paqman]

As did the Sumerians, Babylonians, Hitties, Persians, Greeks, Romans and everyone elses civilisations. Just decline and fall does not make them a 'flop'.


I think you're getting hung up on the word "flop". Substitute for the word "ended" if you like.

[Desert Sailor]

When does the United States get on the list?\\:D/

Some in the world wonder if we will EVER be civilized enough to be on the list, but until then it's a wild party.

[Doctor Mike]

So the first civilization was the Iraqis??? LOL???That would first known (what is not know is much larger) and they were not called Iraqis...

[Cuddles McKitten]

This made me curious: can anyone find a list of the longest-lived states/nations/countries in history (not just ones that currently exist)? I remember seeing it a while ago on Wikipedia, but I can't seem to get the keywords right to find it again.

[sudoer541]

I thought Egyptians (Coptics) stopped existing. But hey my Co-worker is Coptic...I just found out today!!!!
So if Coptics still exist, there is chance that other cultures may still exists such as the Babylonians/mesopotamians (got me wondering now!!!!!!!!:KS)

[bobbob94]

Hmmm, think it might be good to be a bit more precise here. There are tribal groups that have a cultural group identity that might predate all of the document keeping, city living cultures (but who knows, they don't keep written records!). Or are we only talking about societies that had states, government, written records etc? (which are all fairly recent inventions in the history of the human species)

[Paqman]

I thought Egyptians (Coptics) stopped existing. But hey my Co-worker is Coptic...I just found out today!!!!
So if Coptics still exist, there is chance that other cultures may still exists such as the Babylonians/mesopotamians (got me wondering now!!!!!!!!:KS)

Coptic doesn't equal ancient Egyptian. Copts are a Christian minority group within Egypt. Any other modern Egyptian can quite rightly claim to be descended from ancient Egyptians as much as Copts can, we're talking about 100 generations of mixing since the fall of the last dynasty.

In fact, probably half of the Middle East (and Europe and Africa) could probably claim some distant genetic link to ancient Egypt after that long. As someone else mentioned, Genghis Khan lived only 1000 years ago, but 0.5% of the world's male population are related to him. And that was just one guy! Once you go back far enough in time, any claims of direct descent become a bit meaningless. In fact, go back far enough, and you bump into individuals we're ALL related to (see Mitochondrial Eve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_eve))