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yester64
April 3rd, 2010, 09:35 PM
Hi,
I used Suse Linux around 98 and since haven't touched it. But i wonder how Suse is now.
There was also a controversy going on with MS having an agreement with Novel over certain rights.
Now i have Ubuntu running for some while and its nice and everything. But i wonder how Suse fairs in comparison to Ubuntu.
Since i only have one computer i don't want to run two different distros on my computer, but i like to learn about the pro's and con's from users who have it running or did.
I did like Yast at the time, but i did have problems with my modem (98) so i did not got very far and it did only have X Windows and no Gnome or KDE at the time.
Can someone fill me in?

new_tolinux
April 3rd, 2010, 09:47 PM
Since I don't know any "bad" products from Novell, I guess it should work fine.

As I type I'm downloading it and I'm going to try it (again) in VMware. Last time was a few days on my "main" desktop, but I then needed Windows, so I reformatted te drive.

Yvan300
April 3rd, 2010, 10:29 PM
I tried the current suse available by installing from their live cd and i ran into a bit of problems with updates and drivers. So i check their irc channel and they explain that the live cd is not for installing but for checking out suse's capabilities. This sucks imo because if i want to install suse, i would have to download their 4.7 GB iso and that's too much of a hastle . Open Suse has to get their act together!

Kingsley
April 3rd, 2010, 10:32 PM
Yeah, it's KDE done correctly.

new_tolinux
April 3rd, 2010, 10:35 PM
because if i want to install suse, i would have to download their 4.7 GB iso and that's too much of a hastle
It's on usenet, with par2-files.
That's what took the hastle of downloading 4.7GB away for me.

Cam42
April 3rd, 2010, 10:35 PM
Yeah, it's KDE done correctly.

This is true. Best KDE distro I've used.


OpenSUSE is quite good.

Cam42
April 3rd, 2010, 10:36 PM
you can install with a 700MB liveCD, but you lose the option to choose between GNOME and KDE

phibxr
April 3rd, 2010, 10:42 PM
Hi,
I used Suse Linux around 98 and since haven't touched it. But i wonder how Suse is now.
There was also a controversy going on with MS having an agreement with Novel over certain rights.
Now i have Ubuntu running for some while and its nice and everything. But i wonder how Suse fairs in comparison to Ubuntu.
Since i only have one computer i don't want to run two different distros on my computer, but i like to learn about the pro's and con's from users who have it running or did.
I did like Yast at the time, but i did have problems with my modem (98) so i did not got very far and it did only have X Windows and no Gnome or KDE at the time.
Can someone fill me in?

I wrote a little review of openSUSE 11.2 about a month ago which can be read here (http://opentechblog.com/2010/02/taking-opensuse-11-2-out-for-a-spin/).

All in all, it's a very nice system and the only KDE-based distribution that has managed to really impress me. I'm keeping it on a separate partition, and I'm looking forward to checking 11.3 out.

If I were you, I would most probably wait for 11.3 before trying it out, but even if you go for 11.2, the improvements that have taken place since you last tried it will have been astronomical.

yester64
April 3rd, 2010, 11:01 PM
Sounds great. Like i said, i used it before but that like before they invented the wheel. :)
I will most likely give it a try and see how it works.
The time i got it (years ago) i got the version you purchase and it had a nice book which explained a lot. I seen that they still have that too.
For me, i will stay with Gnome.

Oh, how is it with DVD playback? With Ubuntu i know you have the libs you can install to view DRM DVD's. The same should work with Suse too. Well, i will just try it and then we see.

themarker0
April 3rd, 2010, 11:17 PM
I used to use and it liked it very much. I left because i was using a trial for the higher version. I just didn't see a point for paying for a linux OS. I mean i'm not cheap, its just why pay for suse, when Ubuntu can do the same for free.

phibxr
April 4th, 2010, 12:13 AM
Sounds great. Like i said, i used it before but that like before they invented the wheel. :)
I will most likely give it a try and see how it works.
The time i got it (years ago) i got the version you purchase and it had a nice book which explained a lot. I seen that they still have that too.
For me, i will stay with Gnome.

Oh, how is it with DVD playback? With Ubuntu i know you have the libs you can install to view DRM DVD's. The same should work with Suse too. Well, i will just try it and then we see.

This should help you with the DVD-playback. Good luck! :)

http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats/11.2

EarthMind
April 4th, 2010, 12:21 AM
OpenSUSE is KDE done right, indeed.

ronnielsen1
April 4th, 2010, 12:27 AM
Any time I tried Suse, I came back with an unfavorable impression of Yast. I'll stick to Debian based distros

yester64
April 4th, 2010, 01:52 AM
thanks. :)
I feel somewhat bad to try out another distro. Its like cheating :)
I will write my impressions to this experience.

J_Stanton
April 4th, 2010, 02:31 AM
Yeah, it's KDE done correctly.

no such thing, if you get my drift. for me, opensuse may never see my hard drive again. it was glitchy, bloated, and package management sucks. there are so many good distros out there, i have no need for it. but if you like it, go for it.

VTPoet
April 4th, 2010, 04:30 AM
Yeah, it's KDE done correctly.

I've read that over and over again. Based on that kind of praise, I'm here to report that OpenSuse KDE was a disaster on my linux friendly laptop. OpenSuse Gnome just worked (same laptop). Suse's (11.2) implementation of KDE was awful (compared to other KDE distros).

So, for me at least, OpenSuse is *not* KDE done correctly.

BrokenKingpin
April 4th, 2010, 04:35 AM
I have always found SuSE to be a very sluggish distro.

swoll1980
April 4th, 2010, 05:00 AM
Yum is the most retarded package manager I've ever used. That's retarded in the traditional sense, for all those that want to get bent out of shape about it.

NightwishFan
April 4th, 2010, 05:07 AM
OpenSUSE makes some great decisions and is an awesome experience. I used it almost entirely the first year I used Linux. OpenSUSE 10.3 KDE (Best distro ever). I actually bought the OpenSUSE 10.3 Boxed Edition, and still have the install CD. The artwork on it was great.

I will not use it now because KDE4 is horrible, and their Gnome has many issues for me. Even on the live CD it has QT and beagle built in. It is frustrating to remove either.

Please note the following is mainly my opinions, but I will back them up by saying OpenSUSE is great, just not for me. The following concerns 11.2:

Good Points
DVD installer is awesome. You can also buy a cool boxed edition.
Yast has built in modules for some low level configuration that surpass any other distro I have used. Despite feeling clunky it is the most useful system control panel I have used. (Mandrivas was cool but mostly fluff)
Gnome and KDE both look great.
It feels quite speedy and comes default with a desktop optimized kernel.
Downloads only the changes on updates, not the whole package.
A lot of software available with ease.
Installer wizards for codecs and drivers.
You can add a folder, an iso image, your own ftp, etc.. as a repository with an easy to use GUI. Epic win.
A lot more.. :D


Bad Points

Bloated software selection even on live CD. For example as I said above, Gnome has QT by default, language packs for languages I wont use (they added an hour on my updates one time), removing Beagle asks you to remove Nautilus.
The interface for the package manager is less friendly than many. It gives you awkward questions such as "Vendor Change" that seem like an error when they are not.
Sometimes it has odd bugs, such as the menu spawning a new process every time it is opened (fixed in an update, but still...)


Every thing listed on Bad Points I call a 'deal breaker'. In a little bit I will post a picture of my SUSE CD from my 10.3 box! ;)

Edit: Posted OpenSUSE pic

ronnielsen1
April 4th, 2010, 11:02 AM
no such thing, if you get my drift. for me, opensuse may never see my hard drive again. it was glitchy, bloated, and package management sucks. there are so many good distros out there, i have no need for it. but if you like it, go for it.

Agree

gemmakaru
April 4th, 2010, 11:36 AM
Not used Suse since 10 but at the time thought it was great... if it didn't have yast/yast2. It was frustrating. Maybe it has gotten a lot better since then, I mean everything has, except the economy.

cb951303
April 4th, 2010, 12:11 PM
Yum is the most retarded package manager I've ever used. That's retarded in the traditional sense, for all those that want to get bent out of shape about it.

isn't it Fedora's package manager? I believe OpenSUSE uses zypper (http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp).

Gone fishing
April 4th, 2010, 12:31 PM
Opensuse is very good, KDE looks very nice and YAST is a powerful config tool. I suppose YAST is the strongest and the weakest point of Opensuse it has some very kool tools - it is so easy to for example set up ldap client authentication about 2 clicks, on the other hand YASt can make hand configuring difficult as YAST places the files in strange places.

It has some strangenesses for example is Flash a fundamental component of say postfix? On the other hand in Karmic why is postfix needed for mdadm and RAID stuff?

Opensuse cool but I find it cluncky a bit slow compared to Ubuntu.

mmix
April 4th, 2010, 12:40 PM
Yum is the most retarded package manager I've ever used. That's retarded in the traditional sense, for all those that want to get bent out of shape about it.

Sometimes, there is transaction errors in yum update.
2 options for them.



yum update --skip-broken --exclude=<gang package name>

Psumi
April 4th, 2010, 01:02 PM
Does anyone know where that application is that scans your hardware for what SUSE supports and does not support and what is non-free, etc?

ibuclaw
April 4th, 2010, 01:26 PM
Last time I tried OpenSuse, it looked really well done from Boot -> Login.

When I staring using, went own hill from there, but I blame my lack of administrative knowledge on the Suse platform.

huwnet
April 4th, 2010, 01:51 PM
isn't it Fedora's package manager? I believe OpenSUSE uses zypper (http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp).

Indeed and zypper is certainly a big improvement over yum which I've always found to be terribly slow. Opensuse hasn't used yum for quite awhile.

HermanAB
April 4th, 2010, 02:34 PM
Suse is pretty damn good, but Mandriva is usually better. The difference is the way their wizards work. With Suse, you *have* to use the wizards and if you manually modify a configuration file, then the next time you run *any* wizard it overwrites everything you have configured manually even if it was totally unrelated. Mandriva's wizards don't do that. Unfortunately Mandriva is a much smaller company, so their quality is more up and down, but lately it is more up than down.

new_tolinux
April 4th, 2010, 04:19 PM
I've just installed OpenSuse 11.2 with KDE.

The update-applet produced a lot of errors, but updating through Yast worked fine. No "dependency-hell" found yet. I don't like too much applets anyway, so I don't bother about it, just killed it :P
Nvidia was a bit of trouble, but after installing the driver (the first hit on Google was a link to the nvidia install-help on the OpenSuse website) and manually copying the saved settings to /etc/X11/xorg.conf that worked fine also.

I'm impressed with it so far.
It mounted my Windows-drives by default, Grub looks much better than the default text-based-Ubuntu-Grub, the only "no" is that it took both the 100MB Windows-7-boot-partition and the "main" Windows partition as Grub-entries. After finding out which one worked (just a simple "try") I deleted the wrong one. Maybe I'll edit /etc/fstab later to remove the boot-partition from the auto-mount list.

As said, I'm just impressed. It looks good, everything seem to work well, untill yet it really isn't less than I expected from Novell-software. I might even keep it as the main OS next to Windows, where Ubuntu Desktop only was the main OS on my server (because it handles server-tasks way much better than Vista did :lolflag:)

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Ubuntu ;)
If I hadn't learned some linux-basics while using Ubuntu, I wouldn't been able to "solve" that little nVidia problem.
After all, Ubuntu almost was my first experience with Linux, except for a week or so on Redhat 5.x (with KDE) back in the 90's.

yester64
April 4th, 2010, 06:52 PM
Hey, i installed OpenSuse yesterday and had to give up on it.

Well, OpenSuse look nice but there are some things i don't like.
First, the fonts are kinda sluggish. Ubuntu selects the right one for LCD's where you have to select in OpenSuse the right one.
But Suse sees all harddrives in the first place where Ubuntu usually doesn't.
What i like about Suse is that you can costumize it more. You can easily tweak you kernel for example. Also it does come with a lot more and has a more centralized controlpanel.
Yast wasn't that bad and i thought it was easy to understand.
What i had a problem with was the unsupported codecs. There is a script which installs all necessary libs, but for some reason there were conflicts and so not everything worked. Although i liked the presentation of the errors. Point and Click.
I used Gnome and KDE. But i missed to top bar, which is not present in OpenSuse.
My hardware got recognized well and nothing was missing and once you install it you can start to work.
But since you get a full DVD, the upgrade (for the installation) took a long time. So just speedwise i think Ubuntu is faster in installing.
I am torn between. The thing is, even if linux is linux, but you still have to relearn commands.
If someone can tell me how to get Suse to decrypt DVD, like i can with Ubuntu, i might not go back. It is not that you can't, but it takes time to get it right. I was looking for solutions but i don't want to waste to much time to get simple things done.
Overall, its a good distro and does many things i wish ubuntu would do, but in the end Ubuntu works fine.
I am not sure about the difference between how packages are handled. That more technical to me right now.

NightwishFan
April 4th, 2010, 07:50 PM
You can add the top panel yourself. ;) Well some of those things are quite easy to remedy, but yes, it is better to use what you prefer. I would go with OpenSUSE as it fits my needs better, but there are some specific things I cannot figure out.

A lot of critical bugs in 11.2 are fixed, however I need the wireless firmware from the 2.6.32 to get a good signal. Most of the time I cannot sit plugged into ethernet to update or use the net. Using th 2.6.32 manually breaks compatibility with a lot of RPMs.

The brightness on my laptop works! Ubuntu Lucid does not (upstream regression as karmic did). However it ignores me, and is nearly constantly dim even when I am on AC power. I have to manually turn it up every time I log in or out, switch resolution or go to a TTY. Once it went so dim that the screen was nearly black, and would not turn back up.

Another upstream bug, but still an annoying one is anytime someone sends a message on Kopete, the music on Amarok quits. (This happens on Kubuntu too).

Should I bite the bullet and just try it? (On Gnome or KDE doesnt matter) Hope updates fix all my issues? Any SUSE experts have any insight? (I would post on SUSE forums but I never seem to get any replies.)

gnomeuser
April 4th, 2010, 08:08 PM
There are many things I really like about OpenSUSE, but it lacks the community feel and sadly the packages are of generally lower standard.

I also really loath their configuration tool YaST, it smells of the age when nothing autoconfigured. It is overly complex, slow, buggy and requires being run as root. The 1990's are over, and especially it's package manager gui needs to be replaced.

There are though many good things about openSUSE, there are some very clever people working on it and the general feeling of what community they do have is far more friendly than any other distro.

I am sad that it took openSUSE so long to open up it's repos for contributors and make it easy to contribute to the entire system. I think they missed the window for attracting people to their own platform and the best way to perserve the excellent work they do would be to rebase onto something like Ubuntu or Fedora to cut the maintance and distribution roll out they aren't that good at. It would let them focus on the things they are really good at such as desktop innovation, integration with other platforms and doing total integration of new platform such as MeeGo end to end (user experience through ensuring the presence of development tools).

Is openSUSE good, yes but it could be so much better.

cb951303
April 4th, 2010, 08:20 PM
I also really loath their configuration tool YaST, it smells of the age when nothing autoconfigured. It is overly complex, slow, buggy and requires being run as root. The 1990's are over, and especially it's package manager gui needs to be replaced.


my thoughts exactly.

yester64
April 4th, 2010, 08:41 PM
You can add the top panel yourself. ;) Well some of those things are quite easy to remedy, but yes, it is better to use what you prefer. I would go with OpenSUSE as it fits my needs better, but there are some specific things I cannot figure out.

A lot of critical bugs in 11.2 are fixed, however I need the wireless firmware from the 2.6.32 to get a good signal. Most of the time I cannot sit plugged into ethernet to update or use the net. Using th 2.6.32 manually breaks compatibility with a lot of RPMs.

The brightness on my laptop works! Ubuntu Lucid does not (upstream regression as karmic did). However it ignores me, and is nearly constantly dim even when I am on AC power. I have to manually turn it up every time I log in or out, switch resolution or go to a TTY. Once it went so dim that the screen was nearly black, and would not turn back up.

Another upstream bug, but still an annoying one is anytime someone sends a message on Kopete, the music on Amarok quits. (This happens on Kubuntu too).

Should I bite the bullet and just try it? (On Gnome or KDE doesnt matter) Hope updates fix all my issues? Any SUSE experts have any insight? (I would post on SUSE forums but I never seem to get any replies.)

Well i guess you right. But did you get unofficial codec running? I tried that yesterday and failed. I got picture but no sound. And they link linked me to Fluendo but charged $40 for all codecs.
Mm... like i said, its a nice distro and i really liked overall. I don't second the thoughts about yast, but then again i can not compare to other distro's and only know Ubuntu.
I found the pre 9.10 Software Manager better in Ubuntu and the new one bad.
For one thing, i like to install in one run, which is not possible with the current one but was possible with the previous one.
The same you can do with yast.

NightwishFan
April 4th, 2010, 08:52 PM
Here is for codecs:
http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats/11.2

yester64
April 4th, 2010, 08:59 PM
Here is for codecs:
http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats/11.2

That was the link which did not work. At least not 100%.
I can not tell exactly where it crashed, but it were 3 libs.
I assume it did work for you. Once i get my new harddrive i will try another run. But i need to research more before i do.

new_tolinux
April 4th, 2010, 09:21 PM
That was the link which did not work. At least not 100%.
I can not tell exactly where it crashed, but it were 3 libs.
I assume it did work for you. Once i get my new harddrive i will try another run. But i need to research more before i do.
I assume you read this?

Note 2: If you have already installed xine components (most people) then there is a version conflict with two codec packs: libxine1-codecs and k3b-codecs. You are presented with a warning dialog and conflict resolutions. Select the topmost "install" option "with vendor change" for everything to work.

After doing as written there, the install just worked. Only had to download a few more packages (automatic selection) to comply to the dependencies. No problems found with it.

NightwishFan
April 4th, 2010, 09:26 PM
No worries, use what works for you. ;) I am not entirely convinced to give OpenSUSE a try, so I will stick with Ubuntu. I am capable of using a more advanced distribution, but being an Ubuntu supporter for so long I might as well continue to do so right? (Not that Ubuntu cannot be advanced, trust me. :) )

Gone fishing
April 4th, 2010, 10:50 PM
I also really loath their configuration tool YaST, it smells of the age when nothing autoconfigured. It is overly complex, slow, buggy and requires being run as root. The 1990's are over, and especially it's package manager gui needs to be replaced.

Can - can't - can - can't agree, the package manager Gui or even zypper isn't a good as Synaptic or apt-get. YAST is mixed the LDAP and NFS tools are cool and there is nothing like it in Ubuntu, the Graphics conf tool pitiful, boot loader tool cool as is the firewall tool and the DHCP server tool the partitioner isn't some of it's good some isn't.

Gone fishing
April 4th, 2010, 11:01 PM
I also really loath their configuration tool YaST, it smells of the age when nothing autoconfigured. It is overly complex, slow, buggy and requires being run as root. The 1990's are over, and especially it's package manager gui needs to be replaced.

Can - can't - can - can't agree, the package manager Gui or even zypper isn't a good as Synaptic or apt-get. YAST is mixed the LDAP and NFS tools are cool and there is nothing like it in Ubuntu, the Graphics config tool pitiful, boot loader tool is cool as is the firewall tool and the DHCP server tool the partitioner isn't some of it's good some isn't. I feel it needs pruning, updating and re working Opensuse has too many over lapping config tools / menues

YAST is the thing that make Opensuse different like it, loath it or have mixed feelings about it.

Jigen
April 5th, 2010, 02:45 PM
I've always been wondering whether Opensuse is slower or faster than Ubuntu. I couldn't assess it from Live-CDs, even though it seems to me it took about 150 MB for Jaunty, 190 MB for Karmic, 200 for Suse-Gnome and 230 for Suse-KDE...:confused:

NightwishFan
April 5th, 2010, 06:56 PM
It is not slower. Some people feel the Yast control center is clunky, but I really do not feel it. It boots and runs quite well, especially KDE. RAM usage is not exactly relevant. You want it to use more RAM.

yester64
April 7th, 2010, 03:09 AM
So is there anyone using it? Just curious.

NightwishFan
April 7th, 2010, 03:13 AM
I installed it on a desktop I just picked up. I like 11.2 but KDE is not for me, so I reinstalled with Gnome. On my Ubuntu I am using the SLAB menu for gnome.

Kingsley
April 7th, 2010, 03:15 AM
So is there anyone using it? Just curious.
Yeah, since November of last year. I wanted to give KDE4 a good try but Kubuntu was such a headache after a couple of weeks. That's when I turned to OpenSuse.

yester64
April 7th, 2010, 03:30 AM
I wished i can run more than one OS, but i need only one.
I will give another try and follow the instructions more carefully.
So far i am still married to gnome, so for me it will be not KDE. But it is good to know that there are some people who use it. :)

yester64
April 9th, 2010, 12:00 AM
I wished i can run more than one OS, but i need only one.
I will give another try and follow the instructions more carefully.
So far i am still married to gnome, so for me it will be not KDE. But it is good to know that there are some people who use it. :)

Ok, now i have Suse running. Its nice. Will see how long i last.
Btw. i tried to install the Lucid. Shouldn't done it.
My installation went >NIL.

Out of the box it does have already a lot of nice features i missed in Ubuntu. But there is again the philosophy of each distribution.
I will be around here anyway. One of my favorite forums. :)