Why Don't Other Browsers Learn from Opera?

[mrgnash]

This is a rather stupid topic, so feel free to ignore it, but I just wanted to do a little venting. You see, I don't particularly like using Opera as I'd rather use open source software wherever possible, but other browsers have yet to incorporate life savers such as remembering which tabs you had open the last time you were using the application (this is essential for people like me, who have a lot of different tabs open and don't want to bookmark every single thing) and being able to retrive tabs/pages that you may have deliberately or accidentally closed and need to look at again.

And why does no-one else love the windowed application users? Firefox, Seamonkey, Konqueror... running any of them in windowed mode on a 15.4'' 1280x800 display means that sooner or later, you're going to have to use the dreaded horizontal scroll, whereas Opera can resize pages to fit the width of the browser window -- a nothing less than invaluable feature.

So while I'm pleased that the Mozilla family has given IE a good kick to the teeth, I really don't see what all the fuss is about. They're still missing a lot of features; unless it's just me not knowing how to use them correctly? :confused:

[rfruth]

Of cource Firefox does things Opera doesn't but Opera works best for you and thats great !

[mstlyevil]

This is a rather stupid topic, so feel free to ignore it, but I just wanted to do a little venting. You see, I don't particularly like using Opera as I'd rather use open source software wherever possible, but other browsers have yet to incorporate life savers such as remembering which tabs you had open the last time you were using the application (this is essential for people like me, who have a lot of different tabs open and don't want to bookmark every single thing) and being able to retrive tabs/pages that you may have deliberately or accidentally closed and need to look at again.

And why does no-one else love the windowed application users? Firefox, Seamonkey, Konqueror... running any of them in windowed mode on a 15.4'' 1280x800 display means that sooner or later, you're going to have to use the dreaded horizontal scroll, whereas Opera can resize pages to fit the width of the browser window -- a nothing less than invaluable feature.

So while I'm pleased that the Mozilla family has given IE a good kick to the teeth, I really don't see what all the fuss is about. They're still missing a lot of features; unless it's just me not knowing how to use them correctly? :confused:

There are extentions for firefox that will remember tabs that were open during the last use.

[aysiu]

other browsers have yet to incorporate life savers such as remembering which tabs you had open the last time you were using the application (this is essential for people like me, who have a lot of different tabs open and don't want to bookmark every single thing) and being able to retrive tabs/pages that you may have deliberately or accidentally closed and need to look at again. Meet Firefox's SessionSaver (https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=436&application=firefox) extension.

Firefox, Seamonkey, Konqueror... running any of them in windowed mode on a 15.4'' 1280x800 display means that sooner or later, you're going to have to use the dreaded horizontal scroll, whereas Opera can resize pages to fit the width of the browser window -- a nothing less than invaluable feature. Meet Firefox's Page Zoom (https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=1499&application=firefox) extension.

Extensions are Firefox's greatest asset. You can add mouse gestures (https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=39&application=firefox), and just about anything else Opera can do... and more. Use Firefox. It's almost endlessly tweakable.

[mrgnash]

Thanks :) After mstlyevil's comment, I had a look around and found 'Tabbed Browser Extensions,' which I promptly installed in Seamonkey. I'm happy to report that it does everything Opera does in the tabs department - and more!

Now to trial this 'Page Zoom' extension. If it works as well as Opera's 'fit to width' I'll become a full convert \\:D/

EDIT: Hmm 'no install script found.'

[aysiu]

EDIT: Hmm 'no install script found.' That's not what I'm getting.

[Jucato]

could it be possible because mrgnash is using SeaMonkey, that's why there were errors?

I wonder if Konqueror will ever have that session manager stuff, or that tabbed browser plugin (the one that remember which tabs were opened).

Anyway, some of these issues should be actually addressed on less browser-specific levels. For example:
1. Remembering Opened Tabs: I the issue here would be how the browser History is setup. Most histories only arrange/sort by site (konqueror) or by site and day (Firefox). Perhaps a better History would include a sort of filter to also let you see which the time (hour/minute) the sites were browsed. Of course, it may or may not remember which tabs were opened, but it will at least remind you what you were viewing at the same time, which would mean they were open in different tabs.

2. Horizontal scroll: It's not only the fault of browsers (how they render html) but also the fault of some webpages' coding. Why do some webpages automatically wrap text according to the window's size, and some don't? Of course images are another thing, why would you embed a 640x480 image in a web page?

But I do admit, after seeing these two plugins, I'm getting a bit jealous of Firefox. I'm using Konqueror 95% of the time :D

[aysiu]

The open tabs are saved as a "session" (hence the extension name SessionSaver) that is separate (I think) from regular browser history (what URLs have you visited).

There are two options in SessionSaver--the default is to always save your session, meaning that Firefox will open every time to where you left off last time. If you uncheck the default, it will restore your session only if Firefox crashed or if you did a force-quit.

You're right, Fenyx--horizontal scroll is usually the fault of bad webpage design. Unfortunately, bad web design is an immutable fact these days and must be dealt with by browsers. I can't say I encounter it that often, but it is annoying.

[mrgnash]

Yeah I think it's a Seamonkey thing.. it's also incompatible with the latest Deer Park Alpha of Firefox which I'm using :(

I'd love it if they implemented the above features in Konqueror as well. It has to be one of the nicest browsers I have used. I have it open all the time, mainly for browsing the local filesystem and for FTP transfers etc.

On the last point... yes, that's certainly true - bad webpage design is at the heart of the problem. Fortunately though, 'liquid' layouts with CSS neatly resolve the issue, it's just a matter of designers embracing this method over tables.

[aysiu]

Forgive my ignorance, but what's SeaMonkey?

[Jucato]

it's Mozillas's replacement for the mozilla suite, since Mozilla itself was discontinued. So basically a web browser + html editor + email client all rolled into one.

EDIT: Come to think of it, one of Opera's stronger points is that it has an integrated e-mail client. And if I remember correctly MS Outlook has an integrated IE browser.

I wonder if it would be possible, at least in KDE, to integrate KMail into Konqueror, or have a side bar for it. Currently, it's Konqueror that's integrated in KMail (or at least the KHTML KPart).

[Ptero-4]

My idea on this would be like this:
1> Add a simple OS9-finder like filemanager for KDE (with support for burning CD's like nautilus does and handling tarballs like the tar kioslave does).
2> Make Konqueror be web browser/mail client and remove it's file browsing functions.
3> Add to konqueror the session/tab saving from opera (konqueror have zoom already).

[aysiu]

EDIT: Come to think of it, one of Opera's stronger points is that it has an integrated e-mail client. And if I remember correctly MS Outlook has an integrated IE browser. For me, that's not a strong or weak point, just a different approach. To each her own, I guess.

[newbie2]

Opera 9 now passes the Acid 2 test, making it the second browser to do so.
http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/operaStuff/acid/

[mrgnash]

Wow. That's pretty cool, I'll have to try Opera 9 - I like daily builds :D

[zubrug]

Used to love the firefox, but now finding myself using firefox to download opera, it is worth the install head aches:)
I did get rid of opera 9 though, not quite stable yet. Opera with Gnome theme on new Dapper theme, yum

[kadymae]

Opera is the ONE time I have seen "everything but the kitchen sink" done right.

It's the one browser I actually felt was worth paying for.

Don't feel so bad about Opera not being OSS; consider the fact that they were supporting Linux (by making a decent browser for it) back in the day when nobody gave a rat's *** about Linux.

Opera: It's Just *That* Good.

[Sef]

0ne thing that I really love about Opera, it open tab in background. I don't always want to go to a new tab right away.

[aysiu]

0ne thing that I really love about Opera, it open tab in background. I don't always want to go to a new tab right away. Firefox defaults to this behavior. If you want to like something that Opera has that Firefox does, try the ability to choose whether you want to open a tab in the background or the foreground.

Though, knowing Firefox, it probably has an extension that enables that choice.

[Teroedni]

If only Opera worked on 64 bit Os:(

[dada1958]

I use OmniWeb 5.1.3 on my Mac as default browser and Opera 9 preview 2 on my Ubuntu PC. For some obscure reason I never liked Firefox, I might give it another try after reading this thread about saved session and tabs, add spellbound and if that works the way I hope, Firefox has a point.
But Opera is sooo fast \\:D/

[mrgnash]

If only Opera worked on 64 bit Os:(

I got it to work on the AMD64 build of Ubuntu. The only thing that didn't work properly were the fonts. They were still legible, but they were damned ugly :(

And that's a good point kadymae. I kinda feel the same way about Last.fm. I still have quite a bit of respect for commercial software which supports Linux, and doesn't pull any of the dirty tricks with ads and trial periods etc. etc.

[Jucato]

Firefox defaults to this behavior. If you want to like something that Opera has that Firefox does, try the ability to choose whether you want to open a tab in the background or the foreground.

Though, knowing Firefox, it probably has an extension that enables that choice.

Konqueror has that, too :D But only works if you open new link in new tabs. If you open a blank new tab (Ctrl+T or Ctrl+Shift+N), you will be transfered to the new blank tab.

One thing I don't get about Opera 9 is the widgets concept. It's nice and all, but I think it's only good if you're running the window fullscreen or if you have more than 1024x768 resolutions. Other than that, it kinda clutters up the space...

[Teroedni]

I got it to work on the AMD64 build of Ubuntu. The only thing that didn't work properly were the fonts. They were still legible, but they were damned ugly :(

And that's a good point kadymae. I kinda feel the same way about Last.fm. I still have quite a bit of respect for commercial software which supports Linux, and doesn't pull any of the dirty tricks with ads and trial periods etc. etc.


How?
Did you use chroot or?

[mrgnash]

Yep, I just chrooted it... I think I followed a tutorial link from somewhere on the forum.

[s|k]

I agree, Opera has a lot of features that could be adopted by the other browsers.

[CronoDekar]

One thing I don't get about Opera 9 is the widgets concept. It's nice and all, but I think it's only good if you're running the window fullscreen or if you have more than 1024x768 resolutions. Other than that, it kinda clutters up the space...

I was kinda concerned about that too, but then I found it was more useful to just turn off widgets normally, and hitting F6 when there's some widget feature I want to turn on. Can pin any you want to keep up all or most of the time.

Though, I am also in 1280x1024 :)

[cronholio]

The only thing that didn't work properly were the fonts. They were still legible, but they were damned ugly

Use the Debian Etch release with shared Qt, not the static one. Font will look nice. :D

[Ptero-4]

I liked Opera. But the only problem with it is that it doesn't quite blend in well with the king of the Qt apps and that's a major showstopper for me since that's the one qt app I use the most.

[bailout]

"Why Don't Other Browsers Learn from Opera? "

I think you will find that they do and have done often in the past ;)

http://nontroppo.org/wiki/OperaInnovations

[aysiu]

I liked Opera. But the only problem with it is that it doesn't quite blend in well with the king of the Qt apps and that's a major showstopper for me since that's the one qt app I use the most. Even with this skin (http://my.opera.com/community/customize/skins/info/?id=3116) it doesn't?

[Ptero-4]

Even with this skin (http://my.opera.com/community/customize/skins/info/?id=3116) it doesn't?

Unfortunatelly no. Opera won't integrate b/c no matter which skin you use opera will never be able to use the desktop, and menubar settings from KDE. Also that skin only works if you're using kubuntu's default kstyle/windeco, if you aren't it won't look part of the desktop environment. In fact opera looks like a KDE 1/2 app loaded from within gnome or like a gnome app loaded from KDE.

[aysiu]

Unfortunatelly no. Opera won't integrate b/c no matter which skin you use opera will never be able to use the desktop, and menubar settings from KDE. Also that skin only works if you're using kubuntu's default kstyle/windeco, if you aren't it won't look part of the desktop environment. In fact opera looks like a KDE 1/2 app loaded from within gnome or like a gnome app loaded from KDE. That's too bad.

[Jucato]

Well, I think no browser that was not made for a specific desktop will be able to really fully integrate with the desktop (Nautilus/Konqueror/IE/Safari vs. Opera/Firefox/Dillo/etc) in some aspects. For example, in KDE Opera/Firefox will not be able to access KParts, Kioslaves, etc. All you can probably have is to make the browsers look like the desktop and interact with the desktop on a certain level, but that's about it.

Unless of course they were able to develop extensions that would really integrate the browser with the desktop.