Leaving Ubuntu after 3 years

[wsxedc123]

I've been using Ubuntu since Feisty Fawn was released, mainly because I liked the GNOME environment more than Windows.

But Karmic Koala is a terrible release. There are a lot of things wrong graphically and with the user interface that is just unprofessional.

First thing I noticed when I started the live CD was that the examples link on the desktop had the wrong icon. It was a folder but had the new file icon (blank piece of paper).

The last three items in places menu and system menu don't have icons but everything else does. Games have a logic category which I don't understand. Isn't chess logic? Actually aren't they all logic?

Then there are problems with programs. Rhythmbox minimizes to the notification area when I try to close it. Then the only way to exit is to right click on the icon and choose quit. Then the next time I start it starts in the notification area again and I have to click the icon to open it up so I can use it.

Update manager pops up automatically and then minimizes. The old way where there was a tray icon (before Ubuntu 9.04) was perfect, but now it's just annoying and disruptive.

Notifications show up near the middle of the screen now ...which is just ugly. It was fine in Jaunty.

The boot screen is worse since it doesn't show progress any more. The login screens in old versions (Feisty to Intrepid) were ok. In Jaunty it was pretty. But Karmic's one is just the ugliest and overall most just the most terrible thing I have ever seen on a computer screen.

Perhaps many people here might not think it's a big deal but this was the main reason I used Ubuntu, and each release kept getting better. But Ubuntu 9.10 is probably the worst release ever (for me at least).

I just can't believe these changes were made. They are just plain wrong and stupid. Canonical supposedly has a user experience and design team, but they are just making it worse and degrading Ubuntu.

I might check out the next version to see if things get better, but if not I'll have to stick with Windows for good.

PS: There are some things which I liked. The new human theme (especially the icons) look much nicer. The font smoothing enabled since Jaunty is also good.

[Jazzy_Jeff]

Most of the things you complain about are appearance issues. The first thing I do with any new install is set up the look the way I like including login screen. If you would rather use Windows than change things to your liking then that is your choice. I for one will never go back to a virus ridden broken OS.

[wsxedc123]

Then you probably don't use Ubuntu 9.10. As far as I know there no ways to fix the issues I mentioned above...there's no option to change the login screen now either.

[llawwehttam]

Calm down a bit. I do not like Karmic either, but Lucid is coming in april and from what I've seen so far I think it is much better. You can downgrade your GDM back without too many problems but If you really want to change that much then downgrade to 9.04 as it was very stable. Personally the only reason I haven't downgraded is that I haven't got the time.

[nmaster]

why don't you just stick with jaunty? no one is forcing you to use karmic.

[chewit]

Most of it, I agree with. Quite alot of stupid decisions in Karmic, esp missing icons and buttons (which looks very untidy), strange behaviour with update manager and the games menu is wrong.

However, I have decided to live with it, knowing that it is far better than the issues with Windows. I wait for improvements in Lucid, which may solve these problems.

[scottuss]

Join Date: Jan 2010
Beans: 2


Using Ubuntu for 3 years?


Are you sure?

[tgalati4]

You should keep a working distro on your machine. Put the new distro on a new partition, or on a new hard disk. That way, if the new distro (such as Karmic) has a lot of bugs, you can boot back into your previous, working distro.

Linux development follows the 3-steps forward, 2-steps back approach.

[wsxedc123]

Thanks. It's good to know at least one person agrees.

As for other distributions I am thinking about openSUSE. Does anyone have any other recommendations?

[akand074]

Notification Area: Right click on the left end of the notification area launcher on the panel, deselect "lock to panel", move it to wherever you want.

Rythmbox: I believe you can go to Edit > Plugins and disable the feature that causes it to go to your notification area. (I personally prefer it)

Other than that, yeah I dislike the new boot menu but from the blueprints of lucid lynx its supposed to be redesigned. I like to consider Karmic the "Vista of Ubuntu" and I'm hoping lucid lynx will be the "7 of Ubuntu". But like most people said, just stick to Jaunty if you really dislike it. I know lots of people who are still with Jaunty and that distribution is still being supported by Ubuntu and will be for another 2 years I believe. Seems a little premature to just drop out of Ubuntu over that. I'm still using Karmic everything is fixed with me most of your problems are appearance problems, well I set up a great looking theme on my desktop and everything looks great now, new set of icons too. I'm excited for lynx, personally I find even karmic beats out any other OS out there.

Anyways I don't think you should hit a problem, or something you don't like and then just turn your back and leave, especially if you have been using Ubuntu for 3 years you should be able to realize that unlike most other operating systems, in Ubuntu (Linux in general really) when there is a problem, theres always a reason for it and theres always a way to fix it. Where as OS like Windows, problems occur for no apparent reason and then fix itself for no reason and you'll never know what happened. Anyways, do what you think is best for you. I would recommend putting a nice theme to your desktop environment to suit your personality better there are tons and tons out there that you can modify too. If your really unhappy with Karmic, just use Jaunty for 3 months until the full release of Lynx.

Edit:
OpenSUSE is good, I've also heard Mandriva is pretty good. There are tons of Linux distributions, they are all very similar just different "flavours", some have a little more advanced capabilities.

[Tamlynmac]

wsxedc123

Thank You for sharing your experience and gook luck with which ever OS you choose. When one makes a decision regarding which OS to use, it's been my experience that generally they make the change. No need to expound on that decision. Glad you were able to share your departure.

Since this is not a debating section of the forum, I will not comment on your experiences or opinions.

[steveneddy]

After all these years (I started on Warty) of using Ubuntu and especially those that went through the Edgy/Feisty/Gutsy days should know that using the bleeding edge versions of Ubuntu will probably not be a pleasant experience. Things are going to break.

I have no sympathy for those who cannot make the conscious decision to go back to the stable releases, in this case, 8.04 (the LTS) and 8.10.

Expecting a stable system from a barely out of beta OS. Really.

I need my laptop to work EVERY DAY, with NO ISSUES. What version of Ubuntu do I use? Intrepid - 8.10.

I don't have time to mess with PC's every day - I have to get work done - every day - so I use good judgement and chose a stable OS with the features I needed and let those that can use the beta stuff.

Many of the users who complain about Karmic would be surprised at how well their machine ran if they simply regressed back to Hardy or Intrepid.

My .02

[k64]

I've been using Ubuntu since Feisty Fawn was released, mainly because I liked the GNOME environment more than Windows.

But Karmic Koala is a terrible release. There are a lot of things wrong graphically and with the user interface that is just unprofessional.

First thing I noticed when I started the live CD was that the examples link on the desktop had the wrong icon. It was a folder but had the new file icon (blank piece of paper).

The last three items in places menu and system menu don't have icons but everything else does. Games have a logic category which I don't understand. Isn't chess logic? Actually aren't they all logic?

Then there are problems with programs. Rhythmbox minimizes to the notification area when I try to close it. Then the only way to exit is to right click on the icon and choose quit. Then the next time I start it starts in the notification area again and I have to click the icon to open it up so I can use it.

Update manager pops up automatically and then minimizes. The old way where there was a tray icon (before Ubuntu 9.04) was perfect, but now it's just annoying and disruptive.

Notifications show up near the middle of the screen now ...which is just ugly. It was fine in Jaunty.

The boot screen is worse since it doesn't show progress any more. The login screens in old versions (Feisty to Intrepid) were ok. In Jaunty it was pretty. But Karmic's one is just the ugliest and overall most just the most terrible thing I have ever seen on a computer screen.

Perhaps many people here might not think it's a big deal but this was the main reason I used Ubuntu, and each release kept getting better. But Ubuntu 9.10 is probably the worst release ever (for me at least).

I just can't believe these changes were made. They are just plain wrong and stupid. Canonical supposedly has a user experience and design team, but they are just making it worse and degrading Ubuntu.

I might check out the next version to see if things get better, but if not I'll have to stick with Windows for good.

PS: There are some things which I liked. The new human theme (especially the icons) look much nicer. The font smoothing enabled since Jaunty is also good.

Here's what I say: If you hate Karmic, get Lucid. It may only be Alpha 2 but fixes most of Karmic's bugs. Think of Karmic like Windows Vista and Lucid like Windows 7.

Think of it another way: Lucid, the release that sheds light on users, and Karmic, the OS that plagues users with darkness.

[scottuss]

After all these years (I started on Warty) of using Ubuntu and especially those that went through the Edgy/Feisty/Gutsy days should know that using the bleeding edge versions of Ubuntu will probably not be a pleasant experience. Things are going to break.

I have no sympathy for those who cannot make the conscious decision to go back to the stable releases, in this case, 8.04 (the LTS) and 8.10.

Expecting a stable system from a barely out of beta OS. Really.

I need my laptop to work EVERY DAY, with NO ISSUES. What version of Ubuntu do I use? Intrepid - 8.10.

I don't have time to mess with PC's every day - I have to get work done - every day - so I use good judgement and chose a stable OS with the features I needed and let those that can use the beta stuff.

Many of the users who complain about Karmic would be surprised at how well their machine ran if they simply regressed back to Hardy or Intrepid.

My .02


Whilst I do agree with you, using such an old version of Ubuntu is, for most people, out of the question because many of the applications included are now old and lacking features.

My perfect example: My "work" laptop is on 8.04 for one specific reason: the vnc viewer package I use works in that version. Newer versions fail (I have a specific set up) Other than that, I don't particularly enjoy using this laptop because many apps are too old.
Many applications have come on leaps and bounds in the past year or so, I want to take advantage of that.

Yes - I know I can compile and use PPAs but this isn't the best way for me.

[lykwydchykyn]

Perhaps many people here might not think it's a big deal but this was the main reason I used Ubuntu, and each release kept getting better. But Ubuntu 9.10 is probably the worst release ever (for me at least).

I just can't believe these changes were made. They are just plain wrong and stupid. Canonical supposedly has a user experience and design team, but they are just making it worse and degrading Ubuntu.


You're 100% right:

I don't think it's a big deal.

Seriously, I don't really care what you want to use, and I've seen plenty of valid criticism of Karmic's shortcomings, but I'm frankly baffled that anyone would want to change their entire OS for this list of reasons. I mean if grub2 had blown up your hard drive, or ext4 had corrupted your video collection, then I could understand leaving -- AND leaving a long forum post about why you're doing it.

But -- really? -- "chess is in the wrong place on the menu so I'm leaving"? really?

[wsxedc123]

You're 100% right:

I don't think it's a big deal.

Seriously, I don't really care what you want to use, and I've seen plenty of valid criticism of Karmic's shortcomings, but I'm frankly baffled that anyone would want to change their entire OS for this list of reasons. I mean if grub2 had blown up your hard drive, or ext4 had corrupted your video collection, then I could understand leaving -- AND leaving a long forum post about why you're doing it.

But -- really? -- "chess is in the wrong place on the menu so I'm leaving"? really?

It is a problem since they're making a desktop operating system marketed as 'Linux for human beings' and ease of use is actually their main goal. Those are just a few of a very long list of issues.

Technical issues are completely off the point. It doesn't really matter how stable it is or how often updates don't break something if in the end you're stuck with a terrible user interface which gets in your way and stops you from actually using your computer.

There's just no point in using it over another operating system since pretty much the only thing it did better (in my opinion) is gone now.

Also maybe you should take a look at who's actually at fault (Ubuntu) rather than just making excuses or blaming the user.

The worst part is that is was fine in older versions, but they made these changed intentionally and called them 'design decisions' even though they are worse, and they will probably continue to do that in the future. That's why I'm quitting. Not going to bother hanging on to an old version until they stop supporting it.

[xpod]

I've been using Ubuntu since Feisty Fawn was released, mainly because I liked the GNOME environment more than Windows.

But Karmic Koala is a terrible release. There are a lot of things wrong graphically and with the user interface that is just unprofessional.

First thing I noticed when I started the live CD was that the examples link on the desktop had the wrong icon. It was a folder but had the new file icon (blank piece of paper).

The last three items in places menu and system menu don't have icons but everything else does. Games have a logic category which I don't understand. Isn't chess logic? Actually aren't they all logic?

Then there are problems with programs. Rhythmbox minimizes to the notification area when I try to close it. Then the only way to exit is to right click on the icon and choose quit. Then the next time I start it starts in the notification area again and I have to click the icon to open it up so I can use it.

Update manager pops up automatically and then minimizes. The old way where there was a tray icon (before Ubuntu 9.04) was perfect, but now it's just annoying and disruptive.

Notifications show up near the middle of the screen now ...which is just ugly. It was fine in Jaunty.

The boot screen is worse since it doesn't show progress any more. The login screens in old versions (Feisty to Intrepid) were ok. In Jaunty it was pretty. But Karmic's one is just the ugliest and overall most just the most terrible thing I have ever seen on a computer screen.

Perhaps many people here might not think it's a big deal but this was the main reason I used Ubuntu, and each release kept getting better. But Ubuntu 9.10 is probably the worst release ever (for me at least).

I just can't believe these changes were made. They are just plain wrong and stupid. Canonical supposedly has a user experience and design team, but they are just making it worse and degrading Ubuntu.

I might check out the next version to see if things get better, but if not I'll have to stick with Windows for good.

PS: There are some things which I liked. The new human theme (especially the icons) look much nicer. The font smoothing enabled since Jaunty is also good.

I`ve been using Ubuntu for well over 3 years myself now and the many reasons i`ve kept using it this long would far outweigh the ones you`ve given as cause for leaving completely.

Still though, at least you found your way here eventually eh, even if it was just to let us know you`re leaving. :?

[lykwydchykyn]

Also maybe you should take a look at who's actually at fault (Ubuntu) rather than just making excuses or blaming the user.

The worst part is that is was fine in older versions, but they made these changed intentionally and called them 'design decisions' even though they are worse, and they will probably continue to do that in the future. That's why I'm quitting. Not going to bother hanging on to an old version until they stop supporting it.

That's fine, I'm just trying to understand why the things you mentioned are so significant. I don't see where I made any excuses.

[ownasaur]

Thanks for sharing, and good luck

[e-Gee]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo don't goooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
please stay we can't live without you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:-\"

[JoeWheeler]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo don't goooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
please stay we can't live without you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:-\"
I understand where you come from, I've only been using ubuntu for about 6 months but i was really let down changing from 9.04 to 9.10 (however i was mainly disappointed for technical issues) I would just say that i think you should wait the three months to try lucid. I'm using the alpha and it's much faster than karmic, maybe it'll fix your issues with the design?

[scottuss]

Also, what's wrong with trying a different distro?

My suggestions:

Fedora
Arch (probably not for this guy)

[caravel]

Try a different distro such as openSuse or Mandriva.

[running_rabbit07]

Honestly, If you are not willing to take a little time and iron out these issues, which all have easy fixes, then you are going to have it harder with the other OSes you are wanting to try. They are harder to do the simple stuff and require more knowledge to get everything tuned. Ubuntu is the easiest for me, thus far. While Fedora is nice, making changes on it were also harder than Ubuntu. I too had to iron out some wrinkles on Karmic, but now my system makes me smile.:p

[howefield]

I might check out the next version to see if things get better, but if not I'll have to stick with Windows for good.

"Shrug"

There's no shame in that, can I ask which forum you post your goodbyes from Windows in ?

[Syirrus]

I've been using Ubuntu since Feisty Fawn was released, mainly because I liked the GNOME environment more than Windows.

But Karmic Koala is a terrible release. There are a lot of things wrong graphically and with the user interface that is just unprofessional.

First thing I noticed when I started the live CD was that the examples link on the desktop had the wrong icon. It was a folder but had the new file icon (blank piece of paper).

The last three items in places menu and system menu don't have icons but everything else does. Games have a logic category which I don't understand. Isn't chess logic? Actually aren't they all logic?

Then there are problems with programs. Rhythmbox minimizes to the notification area when I try to close it. Then the only way to exit is to right click on the icon and choose quit. Then the next time I start it starts in the notification area again and I have to click the icon to open it up so I can use it.

Update manager pops up automatically and then minimizes. The old way where there was a tray icon (before Ubuntu 9.04) was perfect, but now it's just annoying and disruptive.

Notifications show up near the middle of the screen now ...which is just ugly. It was fine in Jaunty.

The boot screen is worse since it doesn't show progress any more. The login screens in old versions (Feisty to Intrepid) were ok. In Jaunty it was pretty. But Karmic's one is just the ugliest and overall most just the most terrible thing I have ever seen on a computer screen.

Perhaps many people here might not think it's a big deal but this was the main reason I used Ubuntu, and each release kept getting better. But Ubuntu 9.10 is probably the worst release ever (for me at least).

I just can't believe these changes were made. They are just plain wrong and stupid. Canonical supposedly has a user experience and design team, but they are just making it worse and degrading Ubuntu.

I might check out the next version to see if things get better, but if not I'll have to stick with Windows for good.

PS: There are some things which I liked. The new human theme (especially the icons) look much nicer. The font smoothing enabled since Jaunty is also good.


Let's for a moment distill out some of the reasons you have given to us in which you have chosen leave Ubuntu.

1.)The examples link on the desktop had the wrong icon.
2.)The last three items in places menu and system menu don't have icons but everything else does.
3.)Rhythmbox minimizes to the notification area when I try to close it.
4.)The boot screen is worse since it doesn't show progress any more.

Do these reason seem petty to anyone else or is it just me? Really, the boot screen was a deal breaker for you huh? How about Rhythmbox minimization issues. I can think of countless IM clients across different OS platforms that behave in the manner you so dutifully described. Is that the fault of Canonical? Not at all.

I think the issues you bring up are very petty given the amount of time and energy it takes to build a Operating System let alone the fact that it cost you NOTHING! If you actually used Ubuntu for productivity I think you wouldn't have posted this thread.

[Riffer]

Wow! I must be special, I've had no problems upgrading 2 machine and a clean install on a laptop that I didn't know the hardware specs. A lot of your annoyances I just don't have or are non issues for me. And actually I have found Karmic to be overall a nice clean slick looking OS thats rock stable. Right now its my favourite release, though feisty will always hold a special place.

[howefield]

I think the issues you bring up are very petty given the amount of time and energy it takes to build a Operating System let alone the fact that it cost you NOTHING! If you actually used Ubuntu for productivity I think you wouldn't have posted this thread.

It doesn't matter how petty or otherwise the OPs reasons are, they are not for you to argue over, they are important to one person only, the poster.

You wish to deny the freedom to post his/her reasons because you think differently ? Interesting.

[bshosey]

OK. I have 5 computers running ubuntu 9.10 and one running 10.4
I still have problems with the darn corrupted icons with network manager on 3 machines. But honestly every release is better than the one before. It is not the perfect os but so far it is the closest to being perfect for me. I truly love the ubuntu os and am very grate full and thank full for Canonical and the Devs. I also have a company laptop that runs Windows XP. XP to me is toucher to use. I do not like Windows 7 feels like Windows.

Will I upgrade all machines to ubuntu 10.4, heck yes! There is no doubt I will. Will I have problems heck yes! There is no doubt I will. Will I like 10.4 so far I do!

[Syirrus]

It doesn't matter how petty or otherwise the OPs reasons are, they are not for you to argue over, they are important to one person only, the poster.

You wish to deny the freedom to post his/her reasons because you think differently ? Interesting.

Oh excuse me, I didn't deny anyone any freedom to post anything. There is no argument here. I merely casted an opinion on the post. I think it's petty period.

[bshosey]

Oh excuse me, I didn't deny anyone any freedom to post anything. There is no argument here. I merely casted an opinion on the post. I think it's petty period.
I kinda agree with you on this. But he has the right to be petty. I think he is going to have a real hard time finding an OS he likes. I don't see how Windows will work for him eather. At least with GNU/Linux distro he can try to customize around the short cumings.

[howefield]

Oh excuse me, I didn't deny anyone any freedom to post anything. There is no argument here. I merely casted an opinion on the post. I think it's petty period.

OK then, lets look at the choices you had when reading this thread.

1. You could have sympathised.
2. You could have informed him/her the issues were fixable.
3. You could have referred the poster to a support section.
4. You could have ignored the thread and moved on.
5. You could attack the poster for being petty.
6. You could attack the poster by telling him he shouldn't post.

Guess which 2 options you chose ?

I'm not having a go at you, please don't think it.

Sometimes if there is nothing positive to say, it is better to say nothing. And on that note, I am reminded why I seldom venture into this section.

Have a great day.

[bshosey]

Some of his issues could be resolved through gconf-editor.

[kelvin spratt]

I new I forgot something when I stopped using Ubuntu 2 years ago dam what was it?
Try using Mepis KDE, they spend more time putting things right or Linux Mint, Gnome/KDE its got a really polished interface, Vector KDE its slackware the inteface is really polished Parsix if you want Gnome, or fix what you have got only takes a few minutes to do.

[kelvin spratt]

OK then, lets look at the choices you had when reading this thread.

1. You could have sympathised.
2. You could have informed him/her the issues were fixable.
3. You could have referred the poster to a support section.
4. You could have ignored the thread and moved on.
5. You could attack the poster for being petty.
6. You could attack the poster by telling him he shouldn't post.

Guess which 2 options you chose ?

I'm not having a go at you, please don't think it.

Sometimes if there is nothing positive to say, it is better to say nothing. And on that note, I am reminded why I seldom venture into this section.

Have a great day.


This is not a Help section that's why he wasn't offered help

[howefield]

This is not a Help section that's why he wasn't offered help

Who suggested he should be offered help in this section?

Referring a poster to another section of the forum where s/he may benefit is good practice and goes for any section of the forum as far as I can see.

[bshosey]

Who suggested he should be offered help in this section?

Referring a poster to another section of the forum where s/he may benefit is good practice and goes for any section of the forum as far as I can see.
I agree with you on this. But the user was not asking for help. People should always help when they can when a user is asking for help. Plus I can see how some one could read original post as an atack on ubuntu. We are in the ubuntu forums and people are going to defend it.

[SuperSonic4]

Use a different distro then. It's depressing how many ubuntu users won't try other distros

[bshosey]

SuperSonic4 has a point. Not all ubuntu users are like this. I still to this day try other distros. And I always come back because ubuntu still the best for me.

[s.fox]

Thanks. It's good to know at least one person agrees.

As for other distributions I am thinking about openSUSE. Does anyone have any other recommendations?

I have been using #!Crunchbang Linux these last few weeks and have had a really good experience. I am yet to find any major flaws or show stoppers in it.

Wish you all the best in your hunt for another distro

-Silver Fox

[Swagman]

Indeed.

May I suggest Debian64. With a bit of luck he'll have an old ati card as well X800 should do nicely.

That's a real quick way to

A: Learn Linux
B: Learn to appreciate Ubuntu

[bshosey]

I actually debated with my self on using Debian testing. But for some reason and I am not sure why I still missed ubuntu and went back.

O now I remember why. I preferred ubuntu packaging methods and I also like ubuntu art. I know that is petty but I really do like the way ubuntu looks. I was upset with Karmic when they changed the icon theme. Matter of fact I am running gnome-human-icon theme.

[ebharv]

I've been using Ubuntu since Feisty Fawn was released, mainly because I liked the GNOME environment more than Windows.

But Karmic Koala is a terrible release. There are a lot of things wrong graphically and with the user interface that is just unprofessional.

First thing I noticed when I started the live CD was that the examples link on the desktop had the wrong icon. It was a folder but had the new file icon (blank piece of paper).

The last three items in places menu and system menu don't have icons but everything else does. Games have a logic category which I don't understand. Isn't chess logic? Actually aren't they all logic?

Then there are problems with programs. Rhythmbox minimizes to the notification area when I try to close it. Then the only way to exit is to right click on the icon and choose quit. Then the next time I start it starts in the notification area again and I have to click the icon to open it up so I can use it.

Update manager pops up automatically and then minimizes. The old way where there was a tray icon (before Ubuntu 9.04) was perfect, but now it's just annoying and disruptive.

Notifications show up near the middle of the screen now ...which is just ugly. It was fine in Jaunty.

The boot screen is worse since it doesn't show progress any more. The login screens in old versions (Feisty to Intrepid) were ok. In Jaunty it was pretty. But Karmic's one is just the ugliest and overall most just the most terrible thing I have ever seen on a computer screen.

Perhaps many people here might not think it's a big deal but this was the main reason I used Ubuntu, and each release kept getting better. But Ubuntu 9.10 is probably the worst release ever (for me at least).

I just can't believe these changes were made. They are just plain wrong and stupid. Canonical supposedly has a user experience and design team, but they are just making it worse and degrading Ubuntu.

I might check out the next version to see if things get better, but if not I'll have to stick with Windows for good.

PS: There are some things which I liked. The new human theme (especially the icons) look much nicer. The font smoothing enabled since Jaunty is also good.

Karmic may not be the best release of it's time, but it does have some good points.

It fixed a problem many users were having with Ubuntu with wireless networking.

Once you get passed the login screen, it looks better (to me anyway. Of course I changed my desktop after 2 days of toying with Karmic).

It still boasts killer customization options over Windows.

It is still free.

Just about any app for Ubuntu/Linux is free.

I don't have to worry about viruses as much, if at all.

And many more....

It was said before, most of these complaints are cosmetic, and a few of the others are a matter of selecting some options (like the menu icons and rhythmbox minimizing), but keep this in mind when going back to Windows.....

Ubuntu is a fairly new OS when compared to Windows and it hasn't had half of the major problems, and you've actually paid for some of Microsoft's disasters (Win 98 not SE, WinMe, Vista). And when Microsoft sells you a crappy OS they wait for 4 or 5 years to turn around and sell you another one.

If you actually look at the history of Microsoft and Ubuntu, on average Windows is a much less stable system, the problem is Ubuntu doesn't have the Microsoft budget and hype machine.

Come on let's be honest Windows 7 is really nothing more than what Vista claimed to be, and if memory serves me correctly Win7 (Vista fix) is the most hassle free (pre service pack or SE in 98's case) OS Microsoft has released since Win95 (to the general public).

But all said and done it's your choice, you are FREE to go back to Windows, and that is what Ubuntu is about software FREEdom for everyone.

[bshosey]

It is funny how people compare Windows to ubuntu. Ubuntu is built on complete different ideas and principles and that is what I dislike the most about any version of Windows and in any closed peace of software.

[Syirrus]

OK then, lets look at the choices you had when reading this thread.

1. You could have sympathised.
2. You could have informed him/her the issues were fixable.
3. You could have referred the poster to a support section.
4. You could have ignored the thread and moved on.
5. You could attack the poster for being petty.
6. You could attack the poster by telling him he shouldn't post.

Guess which 2 options you chose ?

I'm not having a go at you, please don't think it.

Sometimes if there is nothing positive to say, it is better to say nothing. And on that note, I am reminded why I seldom venture into this section.

Have a great day.

Howefield I appreciate your sensitivity, but I think its a bit misplaced. I don't think all complaints are equal thus warranting sympathy (hopefully you agree). I mean I could empathize and assist if the poster was experiencing hardware problems, stability, or other issues that preventing Ubuntu from functioning. However, you have to see that this isn't the case from a logical objective standpoint.

Just stop and think about this for a moment critically.... The poster literally (in part) is leaving Ubuntu because of a boot logo, example icon and minimization methods. Really? Seriously? That warrants sympathy? Yes I still think his comments are petty; PETTY - Of small importance, trivial. If anyone thinks that his comments aren't trivial please submit a bug report and post it to this thread.

An ethical statement you quote: “If there is nothing positive to say, it is better to say nothing.” Please name one positive thing WSXEDC123 said about Karmic Koala.

Syirrus

[howefield]

.... The poster literally (in part) is leaving Ubuntu because of a boot logo, example icon and minimization methods. Really? Seriously? That warrants sympathy? Yes I still think his comments are petty; PETTY - Of small importance, trivial.

As previously stated, that is irrelevant, doesn't matter. The posters reasons are for him to decide. As it happens, I agree that those particular reasons are not valid for leaving a distro, it would seem that you or I and probably most others would fix the issue, ignore the issue, or find a workaround.

You seem to think that because the poster is in the main, negative towards Karmic, that gives you an opportunity to tell him he shouldn't have posted.

I disagree. But that's ok, we can disagree. ;)


An ethical statement you quote: “If there is nothing positive to say, it is better to say nothing.” Please name one positive thing WSXEDC123 said about Karmic Koala.

Syirrus

You mean this bit ?


PS: There are some things which I liked. The new human theme (especially the icons) look much nicer. The font smoothing enabled since Jaunty is also good.

Plus the more general


've been using Ubuntu since Feisty Fawn was released, mainly because I liked the GNOME environment more than Windows.

[Tamlynmac]

Syirrus
If anyone thinks that his comments aren't trivial please submit a bug report and post it to this thread.

I agree with much of your posting, except the above statement. As specified in the T&E header:


Ubuntu Testimonials & Experiences
Please do not use this section for support questions, bug reports, or debate.

One thing to consider is the fact that not everyone who starts a thread in this section may be seeking sympathy or simply venting. It's been my experience that some come here for other purposes. IMHO, it's often a waste of time arguing (debating) with posts in this section, as that may be precisely what an OP is attempting to accomplish. Perhaps, when choosing an OS some may search for any motive to remain in the environment their most comfortable.

* Not debating (which is in violation of the T&E guidelines), only pointing out what in my interpretation appears to be obvious.

[bowens44]

I have never seen more petty reasons for leaving an OS in my life. It borders on silliness.

That being said , to each thier own....... take care.

[abbyhoag]

I've been using Ubuntu since Feisty Fawn was released, mainly because I liked the GNOME environment more than Windows.

But Karmic Koala is a terrible release. There are a lot of things wrong graphically and with the user interface that is just unprofessional.

First thing I noticed when I started the live CD was that the examples link on the desktop had the wrong icon. It was a folder but had the new file icon (blank piece of paper).

The last three items in places menu and system menu don't have icons but everything else does. Games have a logic category which I don't understand. Isn't chess logic? Actually aren't they all logic?

Then there are problems with programs. Rhythmbox minimizes to the notification area when I try to close it. Then the only way to exit is to right click on the icon and choose quit. Then the next time I start it starts in the notification area again and I have to click the icon to open it up so I can use it.

Update manager pops up automatically and then minimizes. The old way where there was a tray icon (before Ubuntu 9.04) was perfect, but now it's just annoying and disruptive.

Notifications show up near the middle of the screen now ...which is just ugly. It was fine in Jaunty.

The boot screen is worse since it doesn't show progress any more. The login screens in old versions (Feisty to Intrepid) were ok. In Jaunty it was pretty. But Karmic's one is just the ugliest and overall most just the most terrible thing I have ever seen on a computer screen.

Perhaps many people here might not think it's a big deal but this was the main reason I used Ubuntu, and each release kept getting better. But Ubuntu 9.10 is probably the worst release ever (for me at least).

I just can't believe these changes were made. They are just plain wrong and stupid. Canonical supposedly has a user experience and design team, but they are just making it worse and degrading Ubuntu.

I might check out the next version to see if things get better, but if not I'll have to stick with Windows for good.

PS: There are some things which I liked. The new human theme (especially the icons) look much nicer. The font smoothing enabled since Jaunty is also good.

My gosh, Ubuntu must be horrible for you! Chess in the wrong place??!! Wrong icons? Rhythmbox minimizing to the notification area when you close it? And no more progress bar during boot up?? Oh the horror!!!!

*shrugs* Man, I'd be *totally* getting my money back if I were you.

[Brandel Valico]

Other then the lack of a Progress bar during loading. Each and everyone of those issues is fairly easy to fix. As noted by others here. So yeah the reasons for leaving do seem of a lesser importance then the reasons I left Windows. But the OP makes it seem like appearance is the reason he used Ubuntu Linux in the first place. When he says he choose it because he preferred the Gnome interface over Windows.

If that interface is no longer meeting his ideal interface but Windows does then I hope he finds what he is looking for. To each their own. Me I prefer to use an interface I can completely adjust to do what I want. Instead of one that I can't.

[akand074]

Me I prefer to use an interface I can completely adjust to do what I want. Instead of one that I can't.

I second that. My #1 reason for using linux.

[no2498]

if he goes back
he can out run the door
just wont have as much money to play with ;)

[Greg Xix]

Thanks. It's good to know at least one person agrees.

As for other distributions I am thinking about openSUSE. Does anyone have any other recommendations?

I agree Ubuntu has its problems, but I feel like we are so spoiled as a society. There is no perfect Operating System. Ubuntu and all other Linux distros are free. Chances are if you try any other Linux, you will find something wrong with it.


Try Linux Mint. Its of course based on Ubuntu but the Desktop environment is fully customized differently(semi-windows like) than standard Ubuntu so you don't have to tweak it much. Or downgrade to a version of Ubuntu you do like. Many Windows users went back to XP after Vista and its still the leading demographic within Windows(see link).



http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php



REMEMBER, you get what you pay for.





.

[Bill-Gates]

I left Ubuntu because its brown. Then I went to Puppy Linux and left because its blue. Then I went on to Mint and left because its green. Then I went to CrunchBang and left because its black. :-({|=

Sorry about that:lolflag:

Try them all!!!

I have tried and used many:
Puppy, Puppyxp, Macpupfox3, Tinycore, Tinyme, Ubuntu 9.10, OpensuseKD, and gnome, Mint8 and mint5 and more. play around have some fun screw some things up and reinstall.

Loosen up man;)

:KSRun Virtual Box and then you can have both:KS

[cb951303]

don't worry, you'll be back.

[malspa]

I left Ubuntu because its brown. Then I went to Puppy Linux and left because its blue. Then I went on to Mint and left because its green. Then I went to CrunchBang and left because its black. :-({|=

Sorry about that:lolflag:

Try them all!!!

I have tried and used many:
Puppy, Puppyxp, Macpupfox3, Tinycore, Tinyme, Ubuntu 9.10, OpensuseKD, and gnome, Mint8 and mint5 and more. play around have some fun screw some things up and reinstall.

Loosen up man;)

:KSRun Virtual Box and then you can have both:KS

A big +1 !!!

[phredbull]

I don't think the OP's complaints are at all petty; when you see these kinds of inconsistencies on the surface, it makes you wonder how else this lack of attention to detail will manifest...

Refined aesthetics and elegant user interface are what make Apple products such a joy to use.

Then again, if you prefer TTY to GUI, this sensibility might not appeal to you.

[Baneblade]

Still don't understand why the OP cant just go back to the release that he was happy with? Or perhaps even easier, just take 10 minutes to fix those minor interface annoyances.

Personally I spend a good few hours customizing basically everything when i install a new release anyway. That is really one of the main reasons that I prefer nix

[Alexandre Putt]

I honestly do not understand people going there and back all the time. Do you actually do anything useful with your computer? I have a few small projects, and I have to think carefully each time I update a major piece of software, not mentioning changing an OS.

Why don't you commit yourself once for something that works best for you? Or do you have plenty of time for transferring data and solving incompatibility issues?

[phredbull]

I hear ya on the distro hopping; I'm curious if there's something else that I'd like better, but if I had to spend the time I've spent on Ubuntu with 2 or 3 other distros, I'd probably just throw my computer out and go back to reading newspapers and watching tv!

[katie-xx]

Technical issues are completely off the point. It doesn't really matter how stable it is or how often updates don't break something if in the end you're stuck with a terrible user interface which gets in your way and stops you from actually using your computer.


Amazingly enough it is Karmic which has tempted me away from Fedora, OpenSuse and CrunchBang, and to Ubuntu as my main system.

I really cant imagine how the UI is so bad. It seems to comply with everything I was taught about interface design at uni.

Out of interest could you identify what you are struggling with and suggest an alternative method / presentation?

Kate

[dondiego2]

I have been using Karmic since December. I tried various releases of Linux over the last 5 years or so but could never get my wireless working. I even tried KDE just before I installed Karmic and still had wireless issues. Karmic solved those issues. I love it!

I never had any issues once I got it set up. I don't play games so I never even noticed the logic folder in games until I looked after I read the post. I have all my icons and I really don't have anything else to compare it to other than Windows XP that I was using and I will never go back. Every time I think about something I want to do and wonder if there is some software out there to do it, I usually find it for free and it is usually quality software! That didn't happen with Windows.

[jdrodrig]

It is a problem since they're making a desktop operating system marketed as 'Linux for human beings' and ease of use is actually their main goal. Those are just a few of a very long list of issues.

Technical issues are completely off the point. It doesn't really matter how stable it is or how often updates don't break something if in the end you're stuck with a terrible user interface which gets in your way and stops you from actually using your computer.


Couldn't agree more! The more open we are to get this type of feedback, the better community we will become...

Such wisdom is hardly seen in posters with 4 beans...bravo!

[XubuRoxMySox]

For me the issue is having Beta software by default in a release of a distro that is supposed to be "newbie friendly." When Grub2 works, it's great and it's fast. When it doesn't work, it's disastrous. Grub2 is Beta. The old tried-and-proven was fine, albeit slower, but it worked reliably.

PulseAudio is Beta. Again, the old tried-and-proven, reliable ALSA was put aside in favor of a buggy, troublesome Beta default.

This is just plain unconscionable. Newbies are not to be treated like laboratory rats. Jaunty and Karmic have completely changed my mind about recommending Ubuntu - or any distro based on Ubuntu - for newbies. Ubuntu has become a high-risk experiment rather than a ready-for-human-beings usable desktop distro for ordinary folks.

-Robin

[jdrodrig]

For me the issue is having Beta software by default in a release of a distro that is supposed to be "newbie friendly." When Grub2 works, it's great and it's fast. When it doesn't work, it's disastrous. Grub2 is Beta. The old tried-and-proven was fine, albeit slower, but it worked reliably.

PulseAudio is Beta. Again, the old tried-and-proven, reliable ALSA was put aside in favor of a buggy, troublesome Beta default.

This is just plain unconscionable. Newbies are not to be treated like laboratory rats. Jaunty and Karmic have completely changed my mind about recommending Ubuntu - or any distro based on Ubuntu - for newbies. Ubuntu has become a high-risk experiment rather than a ready-for-human-beings usable desktop distro for ordinary folks.

-Robin

Well, a partial "solution" is to recommend newbies to start with the latest LTS version.

[HappyFeet]

For me the issue is having Beta software by default in a release of a distro that is supposed to be "newbie friendly." When Grub2 works, it's great and it's fast. When it doesn't work, it's disastrous. Grub2 is Beta. The old tried-and-proven was fine, albeit slower, but it worked reliably.

PulseAudio is Beta. Again, the old tried-and-proven, reliable ALSA was put aside in favor of a buggy, troublesome Beta default.

This is just plain unconscionable. Newbies are not to be treated like laboratory rats. Jaunty and Karmic have completely changed my mind about recommending Ubuntu - or any distro based on Ubuntu - for newbies. Ubuntu has become a high-risk experiment rather than a ready-for-human-beings usable desktop distro for ordinary folks.

-Robin
I realize it's not perfect, but I mostly disagree. Do you think I can afford to give my customers a flaky OS? My reputation, and referrals are on the line when I do work for someone. Ubuntu has come through for me time after time with zero issues.

As far as the lab rat comment, that is the nature of open source software. The devs cannot test for every possible hardware configuration, and therefore must release the software so issues can be found out and then fixed. If you do not like this approach, I suggest you use something else.

[jdrodrig]

I realize it's not perfect, but I mostly disagree. Do you think I can afford to give my customers a flaky OS? My reputation, and referrals are on the line when I do work for someone. Ubuntu has come through for me time after time with zero issues.

As far as the lab rat comment, that is the nature of open source software. The devs cannot test for every possible hardware configuration, and therefore must release the software so issues can be found out and then fixed. If you do not like this approach, I suggest you use something else.

I dont get your point HappyFeet. What do you mean with zero issues? have you ever have to modify Ubuntu's initial install (out-of-the-box)? If yes, then I am sorry to say, but your experience is not too relevant for the problem at hand..we are talking about newbies..and I am sure you are not one.

If you had not, then your experience seems to have been with users that do not require the same software the OP is trying to use..so again, not that relevant..IMHO.

"As far as the lab rat comment, that is the nature of open source software"...

Once again, I failed to see the point. Any software is released with limited testing, open or closed source. The question at hand is: what makes opensource testing process differently, if any?

[uRock]

I agree with HappyFeet. I was a newcomer to Linux when I jumped into Ubuntu and here I am. Yeah, I had taken A+ class, but anyone who has taken it knows that it does not help with using Linux. Ubuntu makes everything easy. When compared to trying to install Debian, Fedora, or Arch, Ubuntu is super easy. Anybody installing a new OS should be doing a bit of reading before making the leap, if he/she isn't PC literate.

[XubuRoxMySox]

Here's what I mean by the "laboratory rat" thing:

Debian Stable (and distros built on it, like Mepis) has software that has been so thoroughly and so widely tested that most new users can simply use it instead of being expected (not asked, expected) to test it involuntarily for others.

For users who want to do that, and who choose to do it voluntarily, it's welcome and fun. But newbies?! They're only beginning to get the idea that they have any choice at all as far as their OS and its default software goes. It's not fair to hand them a buggy, unproven OS and expect them to overcome its issues and report their findings to the very people who imposed this trouble on them.

Until recently I was content to use Ubuntu to introduce newbies to Linux. But after Karmic and now Lucid (which will still contain some of the same Beta default software as Karmic), I don't dare.

Most of my newbie friends are kids (and dancers, hardly geeky in any sense whatsoever). I will not send them fleeing back to Windows because some developers want to use them as guinea pigs to test Beta software.

It's Mepis for my newbie friends from now on.

-Robin

[Hallvor]

As far as the lab rat comment, that is the nature of open source software. The devs cannot test for every possible hardware configuration, and therefore must release the software so issues can be found out and then fixed. If you do not like this approach, I suggest you use something else.

One of the cornerstones and long traditions of open source has been to test the software extensively and then release it when it is ready. If it`s not ready then users are warned. If they are still willing to take the risk and something breaks, they get to keep both parts.

Take Debian as an example. Only Debian stable is stable. It took a long and extensive testing, and it was released when it was ready. Debian testing/squeeze means just that - testing. It is still quite solid, but it is not near the league of stable when it comes to stability. And Debian unstable/sid means just that - unstable.

Ubuntu, on the other hand, is a modified Debian sid on a fixed release schedule. Even though Ubuntu is made much easier, it is still based on Debian sid! The fact that you have a nice GUI installer does not alter the fact that the OS is unstable and has not gone through extensive testing to sort out the bugs. At the end of the day Ubuntu is still a distro where a lot of first time GNU/Linux users meet a modified Debian sid. They probably don`t expect trouble, and maybe they are lucky and don`t get any, but they sure should be prepared.

[MarcusW]

"I don't like the newest version of Ubuntu so I'm changing to Windows"? Why not install Debian sid or something? :)

[Roasted]

Then you probably don't use Ubuntu 9.10. As far as I know there no ways to fix the issues I mentioned above...there's no option to change the login screen now either.

I'm not really sure what I can offer here, but I run Karmic on all of my machines and haven't had any issues. Considering this, I'm willing to bet there can be some changes made on your end to work around the issues.

Besides, Lucid is right around the corner. But hey, if you'd rather go to Windows, that's your call. But I'd really wait and see what Lucid (at least) brings to the table before jumping ship.

[uRock]

Here's what I mean by the "laboratory rat" thing:

Debian Stable (and distros built on it, like Mepis) has software that has been so thoroughly and so widely tested that most new users can simply use it instead of being expected (not asked, expected) to test it involuntarily for others.

Since when are people being forced to use Ubuntu?


users who want to do that, and who choose to do it voluntarily, it's welcome and fun. But newbies?! They're only beginning to get the idea that they have any choice at all as far as their OS and its default software goes. It's not fair to hand them a buggy, unproven OS and expect them to overcome its issues and report their findings to the very people who imposed this trouble on them.

Until recently I was content to use Ubuntu to introduce newbies to Linux. But after Karmic and now Lucid (which will still contain some of the same Beta default software as Karmic), I don't dare.

Most of my newbie friends are kids (and dancers, hardly geeky in any sense whatsoever). I will not send them fleeing back to Windows because some developers want to use them as guinea pigs to test Beta software.

It's Mepis for my newbie friends from now on.

-Robin

Then why not point people to Hardy? Hardy is basically Debian stable tweaked to actually work well for newcomers.

I have been testing Lucid and it works. Yeah, it might have some newer less tested software, but I trust it.

Fedora has cutting edge software in their distros, but I don't see people crying that it isn't stable. Ubuntu is the best OS I have ever used. If people don't think a newcomer is capable of getting Ubuntu LTS running on a system, then just leave them alone and let them keep running Windows. If you think they have a few brain cells that are usable for learning, then Ubuntu is easily learned.

Most people who come to Linux have an open mind and want to learn, Ubuntu is the perfect OS for that. If their learning curve isn't quite up to par, then point them to Mint, which has the non-free codecs already added in along with a minty fresh flavored theme instead of the smooth chocolate yumminess of Ubuntu.

Just my 2 cents.

[MCVenom]

Since when are people being forced to use Ubuntu?



Then why not point people to Hardy? Hardy is basically Debian stable tweaked to actually work well for newcomers.

I have been testing Lucid and it works. Yeah, it might have some newer less tested software, but I trust it.

Fedora has cutting edge software in their distros, but I don't see people crying that it isn't stable. Ubuntu is the best OS I have ever used. If people don't think a newcomer is capable of getting Ubuntu LTS running on a system, then just leave them alone and let them keep running Windows. If you think they have a few brain cells that are usable for learning, then Ubuntu is easily learned.

Most people who come to Linux have an open mind and want to learn, Ubuntu is the perfect OS for that. If their learning curve isn't quite up to par, then point them to Mint, which has the non-free codecs already added in along with a minty fresh flavored theme instead of the smooth chocolate yumminess of Ubuntu.

Just my 2 cents.
No way... whats that Lassie? Recommend the stable, LTS versions of Ubuntu to newcomers? What? And *edited for intended content* over a non-LTS version for having a few bugs, most being personal presentation issues that are easily "fixed" is counter-productive and ridiculous, especially for someone that's supposedly used Ubuntu for three years? Well, I'd have to agree, I should think... :|

[Hallvor]

Hardy is basically Debian stable [...]


I don`t think so.

[uRock]

No way... whats that Lassie? Recommend the stable, LTS versions of Ubuntu to newcomers? What? And *edited for intended content* over a non-LTS version for having a few bugs, most being personal presentation issues that are easily "fixed" is counter-productive and ridiculous, especially for someone that's supposedly used Ubuntu for three years? Well, I'd have to agree, I should think... :|

I personally recommend Karmic Koala first because, for me, it is very stable and looks awesome on every system I have put it on.

My 6 year old uses Karmic. 2 days ago we, she helped me, pulled out the crappy graphics card and installed a new NVIDIA card. Once wires were connected, she turned on the power, the system booted into safe graphics mode, she, not me, went though the menu and clicked on hardware drivers, then as directed she clicked on the driver with recommended beside it and then the activate button. Once Ubuntu finished installing the driver, she restarted the system and now she can play her games and watch movies without any more lock-ups. Why am I telling this? Because if she can be walked through the process on Ubuntu, so can mostly anyone else. We bought compatible hardware and had zero problems.

[uRock]

I don`t think so.

I have tried both and I stand behind what I said. Installing drivers on Debian is a nightmare. Ubuntu makes it easy. Installing Firefox on Debian was a nightmare. Ubuntu was easy. Installing Google Chrome on Debian was a nightmare, because due to a crappy sources.list I couldn't get GDebi installed. Ubuntu just makes life easier.

Maybe if the Debian preachers were helping in the Debian forums, I would have had a better experience.

Maybe if people on Debian's IRC channel actually helped instead of making requests of the bot to make explanations, I might be using Debian instead of Ubuntu, but people here are willing to help Ubuntu users on the IRC and UF.

[MCVenom]

I personally recommend Karmic Koala first because, for me, it is very stable and looks awesome on every system I have put it on.

My 6 year old uses Karmic. 2 days ago we, she helped me, pulled out the crappy graphics card and installed a new NVIDIA card. Once wires were connected, she turned on the power, the system booted into safe graphics mode, she, not me, went though the menu and clicked on hardware drivers, then as directed she clicked on the driver with recommended beside it and then the activate button. Once Ubuntu finished installing the driver, she restarted the system and now she can play her games and watch movies without any more lock-ups. Why am I telling this? Because if she can be walked through the process on Ubuntu, so can mostly anyone else. We bought compatible hardware and had zero problems.

I've had no problem with Karmic, myself. Personally I started using Ubuntu (and Linux in general) a few months after Jaunty came out and I've been feeling really comfortable recommending Karmic to people. I recommended Kubuntu 9.10 to my dad a few days ago, though we've had trouble installing it on his system. (see the link in my sig) Both of us are awesome with computers, so we should have it installed and running eventually. :D

[Roasted]

I have tried both and I stand behind what I said. Installing drivers on Debian is a nightmare. Ubuntu makes it easy. Installing Firefox on Debian was a nightmare. Ubuntu was easy. Installing Google Chrome on Debian was a nightmare, because due to a crappy sources.list I couldn't get GDebi installed. Ubuntu just makes life easier.

Maybe if the Debian preachers were helping in the Debian forums, I would have had a better experience.

Maybe if people on Debian's IRC channel actually helped instead of making requests of the bot to make explanations, I might be using Debian instead of Ubuntu, but people here are willing to help Ubuntu users on the IRC and UF.

My experiences with Debian directly mirrored the adove statement.

Much love to Debian... but I'd recommend an Ubuntu LTS far before I'd consider recommending Debian to somebody.

[Hallvor]

I have tried both and I stand behind what I said.

That Ubuntu 8.04 is "basically" Debian Lenny? Right.


Installing drivers on Debian is a nightmare. Ubuntu makes it easy. Installing Firefox on Debian was a nightmare. Ubuntu was easy. Installing Google Chrome on Debian was a nightmare, because due to a crappy sources.list I couldn't get GDebi installed. Ubuntu just makes life easier.

Installing non-free drivers is usually a matter of copying and pasting a few commands using module-assistant. Yes, copy and paste. Installing Firefox? Why? Iceweasel IS Firefox. gdebi? Was it too hard to type dpkg -i and the filename? Anyway, it sounds like Ubuntu is just right for you.


Maybe if the Debian preachers were helping in the Debian forums, I would have had a better experience.

The forum members are very helpful if you are polite and don`t waste their time. That usually means trying to find a solution by searching the forum and google before asking for help. It is also usually the quickest solution.

Personally I don`t care what you use.

Debian isn`t that hard to use. Just read this:
http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-desktop-debian-lenny

[XubuRoxMySox]

Since when are people being forced to use Ubuntu?

Of course no one is forcing them. My point was that they don't know they are volunteering to be lab rats for Canonical's experiments. They assume that the software is tested and stable. Because their pal told them "Ubuntu is awesome."




Then why not point people to Hardy? Hardy is basically Debian stable tweaked to actually work well for newcomers.

Because Hardy will be unsupported fairly soon, and the upcoming LTS still has that buggy Beta stuff on it. As for hardy being "basically Debian Stable," that is just patently untrue.


I have been testing Lucid and it works. Yeah, it might have some newer less tested software, but I trust it.

Until today I was testing Xubuntu Lucid too. And it works just fine on my computer. But when I installed Karmic on a friend's computer, Grub2 completely b0rked it and sent my friend fleeing back to Windows. IF Ubuntu works (and if isn't b0rked by some update), it's wonderful. It always worked very well for me, despite the Beta software. Only minor problems, easily fixed in a matter of minutes. But it doesn't work that way on everyone's computer, and that is the issue.


If people don't think a newcomer is capable of getting Ubuntu LTS running on a system, then just leave them alone and let them keep running Windows. If you think they have a few brain cells that are usable for learning, then Ubuntu is easily learned.

Yes, blame the victim. If Ubuntu LTS doesn't work, it isn't the new user's fault, especially if the Ubuntu LTS has frappin' BETA software in it by DEFAULT. Do not give newbies Beta software! What is so hard to understand about that?

Of course new users want to learn. But give them something stable enough for them to learn on. Not unstable stuff that gives even more experienced users headaches. Let them learn. But don't frustrate them needlessly with Beta software.

-Robin

[Warprunner]

"Anyways I don't think you should hit a problem, or something you don't like and then just turn your back and leave, especially if you have been using Ubuntu for 3 years you should be able to realize that unlike most other operating systems, in Ubuntu (Linux in general really) when there is a problem, theres always a reason for it and theres always a way to fix it. Where as OS like Windows, problems occur for no apparent reason and then fix itself for no reason and you'll never know what happened. Anyways, do what you think is best for you. I would recommend putting a nice theme to your desktop environment to suit your personality better there are tons and tons out there that you can modify too. If your really unhappy with Karmic, just use Jaunty for 3 months until the full release of Lynx."


Very well said!: =D>

[HappyFeet]

It's really simple actually. If anyone who posted here does not like the way ubuntu does things, then don't use it. But ranting isn't going to change anything. Use your energies for something constructive.

[uRock]

I agree. If they want stone age stability, then they can go use Debian Lenny and hope that the install gives them the correct sources.list and if they are luck the Debian fans will answer their requests for help instead of giving them links to crap that doesn.t help.

[uRock]

That Ubuntu 8.04 is "basically" Debian Lenny? Right.



Installing non-free drivers is usually a matter of copying and pasting a few commands using module-assistant. Yes, copy and paste. Installing Firefox? Why? Iceweasel IS Firefox. gdebi? Was it too hard to type dpkg -i and the filename? Anyway, it sounds like Ubuntu is just right for you.



The forum members are very helpful if you are polite and don`t waste their time. That usually means trying to find a solution by searching the forum and google before asking for help. It is also usually the quickest solution.

Personally I don`t care what you use.

Debian isn`t that hard to use. Just read this:
http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-desktop-debian-lenny

All I can say is thanks for being there when I needed help and thanks for being yet another person who bashes people that prefer GUI's to commands.

I had tried commanding the drivers in the first time I installed Debian. Didn't work and nobody would answer my thread. On the second try, my sources.list was broke, I went to the IRC and one guy kept saying to do what the dpkg bot said, so I went to the site linked and it had nothing there to copy a working source list. So, I rebooted into Ubuntu, opened gparted, deleted the Debian partition, then ran sudo grub-update.

[jdrodrig]

It's really simple actually. If anyone who posted here does not like the way ubuntu does things, then don't use it. But ranting isn't going to change anything. Use your energies for something constructive.

Here we go again...*this is a Testimonials & Experiences* section...it is meant as a feedback source. If your wish came true and no ubuntu "dislikers" ever posted here, we would loose a very important source of criticism.

I really wish you do not scare any potential source of feedback away...*this is* something very constructive to use their energy on. Ironically, constructive for us, people that do like and use ubuntu more than for them. IMHO.

[overdrank]

Ok the op has no activity in two weeks since posting. I believe the thread has run its course. Thread closed.