need some OS advice

[MelDJ]

long story short:
i messed up ubuntu and am now left with an empty dell studio 1555 laptop (no Os in it)

i am now looking for a new OS. but as yet am undecided between:

1. Arch linux (time consuming but great end result)
2. LFS http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ (same as above)
3. another linux distro (anything not ubuntu)

i have tried PCBSD, but it didn't recognize my wifi card..
any help will be appreciated :)

[Swagman]

How about re-installing Ubuntu ?

[Techsnap]

OpenSUSE, Mandriva, Fedora?

[MelDJ]

after 2 years of using the same distro, i want to try something new (i mean ubuntu)

[Techsnap]

You'll probably get a lot of use Ubuntu replies. But I can understand why since this forum is called Ubuntu Forums. However have you looked into the ones I mentioned?

[d3v1150m471c]

I hear Mandriva and PClinuxOS are both great operating systems. If you want something similar and sleek check out linux mint.

[MelDJ]

You'll probably get a lot of use Ubuntu replies. But I can understand why since this forum is called Ubuntu Forums. However have you looked into the ones I mentioned?

yeah.
from what i read and understand, mandriva seems not well documented and supported while opensuse lacks hardware support.
fedora on the other hand looks okay.
i would like to hear about lfs and arch too. these seem fun to build and use.

[d3v1150m471c]

I'd go with mandriva before I would go with fedora. http://polishlinux.org/choose/comparison/?distro1=Fedora&distro2=Ubuntu

[Techsnap]

from what i read and understand, mandriva seems not well documented and supported while opensuse lacks hardware support.

Hmmm, in my experience it's been the exactly opposite. Mandriva has some good documentation IMO and OpenSUSE has always supported my hardware.

[MelDJ]

I'd go with mandriva before I would go with fedora. http://polishlinux.org/choose/comparison/?distro1=Fedora&distro2=Ubuntu

great link!

[d3v1150m471c]

Yeah, mandriva definitely makes a solid OS.

[Swagman]

If I wasn't using Ubuntu then it'd be Mandriva.

[MelDJ]

it now is a fight between mandriva and pclinuxos for me ... this should be tough
thanks everyone for the suggestions so far :)

[Techsnap]

We've had Mandriva installed on a laptop since 2006, upgraded never reinstalled and it's running brilliantly.

Mandriva is probably the best option over PCLinuxOS, it seems that Mandriva is more up to date anyways and I don't think that the PCLinuxOS devs are certain about newer version from what I've read.

[mick222]

Both are good not tried fedora for a while but it was always a bit more cutting edge than ubuntu and a bit harder to get codecs for.Mandriva is solid and if you want cutting edge install the cooker repo's.

[Techsnap]

Just use the RPMFusion repos in Fedora for your codecs and that, if you enable them at install time they will automatically install codecs during the installation of Fedora.

[MelDJ]

Just use the RPMFusion repos in Fedora for your codecs and that, if you enable them at install time they will automatically install codecs during the installation of Fedora.

i read that mandriva uses something called uirpm for installing .rpms (correct me if i am wrong)
are .deb installation easy to do?
and which version do i install? can i add codecs to the free edition and if yes how?

[Swagman]

iirc its just yum or YasT ?

[Techsnap]

Mandriva uses urpmi, the graphical frontend can be accessed through the configuration centre (drakconfig).

Fedora uses YUM, the graphical frontend on KDE is kpackagekit, I think Gnome uses pirut, it used to.

OpenSUSE uses zypper, the graphical frontend is through YaST, zypper is very powerful in the right hands.

You can't use .debs on the above, but there are usually equivalent RPMs, and you'll appreciate RPM package management better IMO.

[MelDJ]

am downloading mandriva one now..hope its the correct version..

[Techsnap]

Mandriva One contains nonfree software such as Drivers (Graphics, Wifi etc) and codecs, so you should be good to go, did you choose KDE or Gnome out of interest?

[MelDJ]

Mandriva One contains nonfree software such as Drivers (Graphics, Wifi etc) and codecs, so you should be good to go, did you choose KDE or Gnome out of interest?

gnome!
i didn't want to bring this up, but kde was one of the reasons i didn't even try fixing my wifi card in PCBSD :P

[Techsnap]

Cool, just use what you want to use, I use KDE because I'm familiar with it since I've used it for years. Stuff like this is just preference so don't worry about posting what you use.

[MelDJ]

Cool, just use what you want to use, I use KDE because I'm familiar with it since I've used it for years. Stuff like this is just preference so don't worry about posting what you use.

some people don't like it..
thanks for all the help Techsnap :D. will get back here after i finish downloading + installing

[Techsnap]

some people don't like it.

More fool them.

thanks for all the help Techsnap

No problem.

[lostinxlation]

Life is good as a slacker.

[k64]

I personally would say Mint ('http://www.linuxmint.com/'). It's based on Ubuntu only offers a different menu configuration. Oh, and it really is less buggy than Ubuntu. Case in point: It is more stable, yet from the same codebase.

[Bölvaður]

ubuntu minimal install.

[MelDJ]

I personally would say Mint (http://www.linuxmint.com/). It's based on Ubuntu only offers a different menu configuration. Oh, and it really is less buggy than Ubuntu. Case in point: It is more stable, yet from the same codebase.

ubuntu minimal install.

thanks..
but i dont want to use ubuntu :)

[mamamia88]

try sabayon if you have a broadcom card you might just be suprised your wireless works out of the box. i have a laptop with a nvidia chip and a broadcom card everything worked out of the box

[MisfitI38]

i would like to hear about lfs and arch too. these seem fun to build and use.

Arch and LFS (and I will lump Slack in here too) can be a lot of fun, but they're not for everyone. Lots of other distributions try to cater to a wider target userbase, whereas Arch, Slack and LFS have a very specific niche that they appeal to, by design.

I still recommend you try all 3. Just be warned, that they all require more *nix competence than the average distro. However, I think if you are the kind of user who likes to learn, then you will grow to like them as you grow in knowledge.
If you're the kind of user who simply needs an OS to be a means to an end, namely, running applications, then perhaps the Mandrivas and SuSEs are the way to go.
Have fun.

[MelDJ]

Arch and LFS (and I will lump Slack in here too) can be a lot of fun, but they're not for everyone. Lots of other distributions try to cater to a wider target userbase, whereas Arch, Slack and LFS have a very specific niche that they appeal to, by design.

I still recommend you try all 3. Just be warned, that they all require more *nix competence than the average distro. However, I think if you are the kind of user who likes to learn, then you will grow to like them as you grow in knowledge.
If you're the kind of user who simply needs an OS to be a means to an end, namely, running applications, then perhaps the Mandrivas and SuSEs are the way to go.
Have fun.

i am curious about 1 thing.
as ubuntu uses apt, can i uninstall it and use another package manager?

[~sHyLoCk~]

i am curious about 1 thing.
as ubuntu uses apt, can i uninstall it and use another package manager?

Like yum instead of apt?

[MelDJ]

Like yum instead of apt?

yes.
make a debian based system a rpm based system

[Roasted]

I'd go with mandriva before I would go with fedora. http://polishlinux.org/choose/comparison/?distro1=Fedora&distro2=Ubuntu

I agree. Fedora is like a beta-distro to RHEL, so there are times it feels like it's "stable" release is still a testing branch.

I recently tried out Mandriva, openSUSE, Ubuntu, and several others heavily.

I recommend in this order:

Ubuntu
Mandriva
OpenSUSE

[MisfitI38]

yes.
make a debian based system a rpm based system

Anything is possible, including putting a man on the moon, it all boils down to cost.

Starting with Debian and ending up with an RPM distro with an RPM wrapper (like yum) and RPM repositories is possible, but it will cost you a boatload of time and challenges. And I do mean a boatload.

Anyone will tell you it is not worth it to install Debian and end up with Fedora or CentOS, especially since teams of developers have already done the gratuitous amounts of packaging, development and maintenance for you.

[Techsnap]

make a debian based system a rpm based system

Although it is possible it is a lot of screwing around and it will most probably break.

[Ewingo401]

I would recommend sidux. It's rolling release like Arch, but based on Debian sid, so it will seem much more familiar coming from Ubuntu.

[Techsnap]

Sidux will be fine if the OP doesn't mind running into possibly a few broken packages now and then.

[squilookle]

I can currently highly recommend Arch.

If you read the begginers guide before you start, and follow it closely, the install is not difficult at all.

I actually got my system up and running and configured to how I like it in 2 days, although the system was usable long before that.

Since then, I've found it to be very stable and light, and the package manager is easy to use.

[Zoot7]

You could give regular Debian (Squeeze/Sid) a try. You'll be instantly at home in it given Ubuntu is based on it.
Debian is a tad bit more hands on and is generally a lot more conservative in how it goes about things, for instance Pulseaudio still isn't a part of the main installation yet.
I find the stuff in the Debian testing repos to be in the "sweet spot" so to speak, ie. a nice blend of stability and being up to date.
The installation also has a lot more going for it, given that you can install the whole system including a Desktop Envoirnment similar to most other OOTB distros, or you can install the simple base and add to it in bits and pieces customizing as you much like you do with Arch.

If you wanted to get away from the Debian ecosystem of distros openSUSE is a very good bet also, it's one of the best distros out there IMO.

[MelDJ]

mandriva didn't work..X didn't start as the error seems to be: fatal server error caught signal 11...

think i will give opensuse a go then

[Dj Melik]

Go with arch, I made the move 3 months ago and will never look at another distro (until arch dies).

It has a slight learning curve, but with the wiki there.. you should be fine.

[Dj Melik]

Go with arch, I made the move 3 months ago and will never look at another distro (until arch dies).

It has a slight learning curve, but with the wiki there.. you should be fine.

[MelDJ]

hi guys.
moved to opensuse.
quite okay..
:D

[Techsnap]

OpenSUSE is absolutely brilliant, I've been using OpenSUSE quite regular since I bought SuSE 9.1 years ago.

[MelDJ]

it is very neat and efficient.
i must say that file transfer is very fast.
in ubuntu, the transfer speed will be fast and gradually decrease. now, it increases and reaches a certain speed.
the only thing i don't like is the startup menu. to see more apps, i have to open a new window. this can be changed, but still....

[Techsnap]

Yeah you can easily change it. A lot of people actually like that method in OpenSUSE Gnome so that's probably why they decided to keep it there.

Also when you're in YaST have a look at the software repositories option and then click Community Repositories, you have access to an absolutely huge library of software there. If you enable the Mozilla repo, go to software management and click upgrade to Firefox, you'll get the latest version from Mozilla from then on. Awesome eh?

[MelDJ]

yeah. i like the software manager very much. its like a fusion of synaptic and add/remove.
i just added packman and as you said, there are a lot of software!

[Techsnap]

It's also kept quite up to date most of the time, so you always get near enough the latest versions.

http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_package_repositories

There are some more repos if you want them.

[MelDJ]

opensuse has shown its true colours!
programs load and run very slowly.
installing programs from other repo's have brought me a few errors..
i am going to try arch instead

[~sHyLoCk~]

opensuse has shown its true colours!
programs load and run very slowly.
installing programs from other repo's have brought me a few errors..
i am going to try arch instead

Lol!

Win. Good for you. Welcome to the Arch side. ;-)

[Techsnap]

opensuse has shown its true colours!
programs load and run very slowly.
installing programs from other repo's have brought me a few errors..That's not usual I can assure you.

Ah well enjoy Arch and it's dependency bloat. However if you need assistance with Arch still post here me and others will be able to answer your queries.

[MelDJ]

That's not usual I can assure you.

Ah well enjoy Arch and it's dependency bloat. However if you need assistance with Arch still post here me and others will be able to answer your queries.

appreciate all you help until now
going into it now.
will post back when done (tomorrow if all goes well in ubuntu or hopefully arch :))

[MelDJ]

i have finished editing my rc.conf file, now i don't know how to exit. anyone can help?

edit: got it...^ = ctrl...

[Techsnap]

Just make sure you follow the beginners guide word for word if this is your first time installing Arch.

[MisfitI38]

opensuse has shown its true colours!
programs load and run very slowly.
installing programs from other repo's have brought me a few errors..
i am going to try arch instead

Unfortunately, this has been my experience with SUSE since I first tried it in ~2004...and I've taken every version since then for a spin with similarly dismal results on at least 5 different machines of varying architecture and era.
I hear this again and again from many people who try it. But then again, it is also an immensely popular distro with many fans who love and embrace it. It does puzzle me.
OpenSUSE, upon first impression always seems so professionally presented, so polished. Then, when I go to use it, programs open slowly or not at all, crash, or leave me with a seemingly endless busy cursor. I have always, every time, met with dependency errors upon first update.
Disappointingly, most of my time test-driving it has invariably been spent troubleshooting and scouring configuration files (which are topped with "DO NOT EDIT THIS CONFIGURATION FILE BY HAND!"). Sorry, but if YasT and the gui configuration tools worked reliably, I wouldn't have to.
Fail.
I will keep coming back to it, because I want them to finally 'hit it right', I want them to succeed; it seems so close to the perfect ootb experience. Something tells me though, that much like Fedora became after 6 or 7, OpenSUSE is just throwing a bone to the community by even existing, and the enterprise tools are the only ones that are truly nurtured. :(

Anyways, good luck with Arch.

[MelDJ]

i am having a problem updating.
i uncommented a repo and ran pacman -S python
but this comes up:
failed to init transaction
if you are sure a package manager is not already running, you can remove /var.lib/pacman/db.ick

edit: again got it

[~sHyLoCk~]

i am having a problem updating.
i uncommented a repo and ran pacman -S python
but this comes up:
failed to init transaction
if you are sure a package manager is not already running, you can remove /var.lib/pacman/db.ick

edit: again got it

Hi, I would love to help you out. But this is really not the right place for Arch support. Why don't you come to Arch forum and post your question? You will get instant help. :)
Good luck.

[MelDJ]

Hi, I would love to help you out. But this is really not the right place for Arch support. Why don't you come to Arch forum and post your question? You will get instant help. :)
Good luck.

maybe if i get a lot of problems! and if i really like it and want to use it..for now i can do most of it myself.
and i have also seen that the arch forum doesn't like simple questions :)

[~sHyLoCk~]

maybe if i get a lot of problems! and if i really like it and want to use it..for now i can do most of it myself.
and i have also seen that the arch forum doesn't like simple questions :)

That's not true. You will find such people in every forum. You can't find such people in ubuntu forums because of stricter forum rules, heck you can't even ask someone to google!
Anyway, I'd suggest first to uncomment a mirror in mirrorlist and do a full system upgrade using pacman -Syyu once and then proceed installing X,alsa,video driver, DE,etc. Refer to the wiki, it's all there.
Have fun! :)

[llawwehttam]

Right Guys I've just had another silly ubuntu problem with my desktop ( my laptop is fine) I blame recent updates as it has killed my suspend and is suddenly really slow to load everything.

Arch here I come!!!!! ........ in a few months time when I can get a new computer to install it on. ( As a rule I DO NOT dual boot, EVER, if i need another OS I get another computer. So far I have 2 desktops and a laptop and I hope to have 4 desktops, a laptop and a netbook by the end of the year.)

As for my current ubuntu desktop and laptop I am waiting for Lucid as It seems promising.

EDIT: since I posted this my laptop has stopped using advanced desktop effects. A re-install of the nvidia driver fixed this but I don't remember a kernel update recently and I have a script to automatically update the nvidia module when it needs to be.

Why do they send out updates if there buggy?

That's not true. You will find such people in every forum. You can't find such people in ubuntu forums because of stricter forum rules, heck you can't even ask someone to google!
Anyway, I'd suggest first to uncomment a mirror in mirrorlist and do a full system upgrade using pacman -Syyu once and then proceed installing X,alsa,video driver, DE,etc. Refer to the wiki, it's all there.
Have fun! :)

The reason the arch forums are a bit mean or may appear so is that they do not like people who simply post then expect others to help them without them doing any searching.

If you are an arch user you are expected to be reasonably *nix competent and so it is deemed a bit lazy to ask something silly if a quick Google could have given you the answer. Also bumping a thread without giving more info is against the arch forum rules.

[Techsnap]

The way people talk about Arch round here you wouldn't expect them to have to be more Linux competant because it seems that Arch is becoming a solution for loads of stuff, why push people to that distro and then moan at them for asking silly questions eh.

[~sHyLoCk~]

The reason the arch forums are a bit mean or may appear so is that they do not like people who simply post then expect others to help them without them doing any searching.

If you are an arch user you are expected to be reasonably *nix competent and so it is deemed a bit lazy to ask something silly if a quick Google could have given you the answer. Also bumping a thread without giving more info is against the arch forum rules.

I doubt Arch forum is mean. Besides the Archers, even the Devs and TUs always try to help out people with relevant questions. Obviously it is expected that you have read the wiki and searched the forum before asking the question. This much is expected from any forum user of any forum in the world about any thing , except ubuntu. :D

[MelDJ]

have finished installing gnome and arch and everything is okay :D
i will be going back to ubuntu eventually for college because i rather have stability and because i am more familiar with it.
among the problems with arch is i cant load compiz (my driver is blacklisted):(
pacman downloads some programs start-stop. making me need to do pacman -S package, again and again
its a shame that opensuse didn't work. the amount of apps available in the repo was very impressive (i could install songbird from it!)

another strange thing about opensuse was while i was transfering some songs to my computer through my pendrive, the process stopped and an error came up saying my pendrive was read only. i removed the pendrive and put it back in and it was not detected anymore. i plugged it into my xp machine and it asked to format it (meaning xp can't read the filesystem)
Spooky ~

[hemimaniac]

Personally Linux Mint is mt choice, though it it closely based on Ubuntu, it does offer alot of neat things out of the box, 1- my asus wireless card connected without a hitch 2- the more centralized menu imo was a god-sent

but that is just my opinion, whatever you decide to choose is one of the great things about *nix, you really can be youself and your choices arent limited to a single loop of a product with less or more innit

[Techsnap]

i removed the pendrive and put it back in and it was not detected anymore.

That's probably because you removed it without safely removing it or unmounting it first?

[MelDJ]

That's probably because you removed it without safely removing it or unmounting it first?

lol..
how can i remove it if it is not recognized by the os?

[Techsnap]

the process stopped and an error came up saying my pendrive was read only. i removed the pendrive and put it back in

That's probably what did it.

[MisfitI38]

among the problems with arch is i cant load compiz (my driver is blacklisted):(
pacman downloads some programs start-stop. making me need to do pacman -S package, again and again
These issues sound trivial to solve, imo.
I'm not sure what you are saying by "my driver is blacklisted", because in Arch, it is you, the user, who blacklists modules..(?)
If pacman downloads are erratic with your top mirror, simply switch to a different mirror.
You may want to open a thread at the Arch forums if you are in need of further assistance.
Have fun. :)

[MelDJ]

That's probably what did it.

what happened was, i was transfering some songs from my pendrive to the hard disk. while the process was running, opensuse gave that error and i couldn't find my pendrive in /mnt or /media or even on the desktop or computer.
so i took it off in the hope that it will detect it again. but then that happened

anyway i also tried fedora which also was not very good, the worst imo. update manager was too slow (no problem with internet browsing), (lack of different server?)
so i can sum up my experiences with all the operating systems likewise:
1. Opensuse:
pros: very good concept, very very good package manager, vast amount of programs available through repos
cons: doesn't seem to work well with some computers (mine!)
best for: if it improves its hardware support, everyone and will be able to be the best linux distro imo

2. Arch
pros: fun to build, quite fast speed loading and running,
cons: pacman doesn't install programs well ( i have to run pacman -S repeatedly for the program to download), not an OS which i would use for the long term.
best for: hobbyist, those who understand linux systems or want to learn

3. Fedora
pros: clean desktop
cons: hard to install codecs (mp3), very slow and unresponsive update manager, lack of preloaded programs, user not put in sudoer as default (i personally don't like having to run su everytime i want to
install programs)
best for: FOSS purists

those are my opinions, you are free to disagree! :p
PS: downloading ubuntu 8.04 while typing this

[Techsnap]

You will need to enable the RPMFusion repos in Fedora if you want codecs easily. Also about the updater in Fedora, I always use the CLI for YUM but the Graphical Package Manager is not very clear.

The first time you log into Fedora and launch the package manager it syncs with the repositories, this can take a little while obviously, just as it would with any distribution that used a package manager with repositories. In this time you cannot use the package manager for pretty much anything so it seems unresponsive as it is syncing with the repos. If you used the CLI interface for YUM it becomes a lot clearer why initially it takes longer.

Now Ubuntu uses Synaptic which when you first log in and sync with the repos brings up a Window saying downloading package lists or something to this effect, you cannot use Synaptic in the background whilst it's doing this. This is exactly what Fedora and YUM are doing the first time the package manager is used and this is why it would seem unresponsive, I've head a load of people say this about Fedora basing it on ther first use. I do think however that the (Graphical) package manager should make it clearer to what it is doing.

[MelDJ]

i did search around google for installing mp3 codecs but all i got was telling me to:
a) buy them from fluendo
b) install from a site which eventually timed out

nothing about rpmfusion though

emesene, update manager and firefox stalled too.
so i think this is in someway my computer's fault

[Techsnap]

http://rpmfusion.org, anyways I guess you're onto the next distro now :P.

[MelDJ]

http://rpmfusion.org, anyways I guess you're onto the next distro now :P.

yeah...ubuntu 8.04. ;)

[Techsnap]

Got any others lined up for after?

[MelDJ]

Got any others lined up for after?

none which i can think of ;)
i am scared of damaging my drive by formatting many times..

[Techsnap]

i am scared of damaging my drive by formatting many times..

I'd say it's quite unlikely that you will damage your drive.

[kdaemon]

I have been through the mill with distro's recently, I must have tried like 5 of them trying to find something that works right with my system (Dell studio 17). Something went very wrong with all that I tried, Ubuntu works best, also, eventually I found:

http://en.community.dell.com/wikis/linux/ubuntu-9-04-recovery-media-creation.aspx

This allowed me to install Ubuntu with al lthe required Dell stuff so "EVERYTHING" works now, sound, wifi, media buttens, everything without a single annoying issue in sight.

[MelDJ]

I'd say it's quite unlikely that you will damage your drive.

i would look into it then. but i must say i would like some stability for a while!

[~sHyLoCk~]

cons: pacman doesn't install programs well ( i have to run pacman -S repeatedly for the program to download)

Huh?
You just had to type something in cons didn't you? :p

[MelDJ]

Huh?
You just had to type something in cons didn't you? :p

it took a while to think... :p (but it's true though)

[~sHyLoCk~]

it took a while to think... :p (but it's true though)

Hmm probably the mirror you were using coz it's certainly not true.

If you want to just download a package use -w and install it with -U, else -S should do that for you.

[MelDJ]

Hmm probably the mirror you were using coz it's certainly not true.

If you want to just download a package use -w and install it with -U, else -S should do that for you.

another thing...
why is it pacman -S and not pacman -s?

[~sHyLoCk~]

another thing...
why is it pacman -S and not pacman -s?

Because both switches have different functions. You should read man pacman
Linux is case-sensitive.

[MelDJ]

Because both switches have different functions. You should read man pacmanLinux is case-sensitive.

:o
thanks for that

[Gallahhad]

NM OP already appears to have made a choice.

[Zoot7]

1. Opensuse:
pros: very good concept, very very good package manager, vast amount of programs available through repos
cons: doesn't seem to work well with some computers (mine!)
best for: if it improves its hardware support, everyone and will be able to be the best linux distro imo
You forgot YaST as a pro! :tongue:

2. Arch
pros: fun to build, quite fast speed loading and running,
cons: pacman doesn't install programs well ( i have to run pacman -S repeatedly for the program to download), not an OS which i would use for the long term.
best for: hobbyist, those who understand linux systems or want to learn
The main turn off for me with Arch were Hal updates breaking mounting. I also had some problems with Input Hotplugging whereby my mouse and keyboard wouldn't work once X started, while both weren't hard to solve, it isn't really something I should have to fix IMO.

[MelDJ]

what difference a day can make!
now i am using a dual boot of windows vista (reinstalled from the dell cd) and linux mint (more like ubuntu mint) :p