is this unethical or a good thing?

[woedend]

About 2 weeks ago, my friend was having windows problems. I always teased him to use linux. Finally he gave in and said ok. So I gave him the disk, he tried but wasn't comfortable resizing his partitions etc etc. So, he asked me to come out and install it, I agreed, then he said he'd give me 30$. Im not big on charging friends, but he lives a good distance out(gas) and has good deal of money and I about none at the time so agreed. Set him up with ubuntu, all the apps, FAT partition to share, codecs, set up the bridge, and fought with xgl and compiz for a while, so I feel it was worth the money as I was on it a good 3 hours. I am happy to report that he now realizes how bad windows was for him and uses primarily ubuntu and loves it, and is even getting good with it, sending me txt msgs like "sudo gedit /etc/gotohell" as a joke the day after we spent hours trying to get wireless working via phone and running "sudo gedit /etc/network/interfaces". Low and behold, he showed his friends and coworkers, and now there is a staggering list of people offering me as much as 60$ to install "linux". I really don't want to do it for 2 reasons
1- Linux is free, I did not make it, I did not make ubuntu, why should I get money?
2 - They aren't the most savvy people in the world, I don't want to become a tech support line.
But none will do it themselves, they don't care, don't want to know, just want it on to get started using it. But I do not have the time or money to be the santa claus of FOSS and doing it for free. I wonder, is this unethical(or even legal?), should I do it?

[Lovechild]

Nothing unethical about it what so ever, you are spreading Linux and the compensation is more than fair seeing as you have to invest both time and money into learning Linux and driving around installing Linux for them to play with.

If they wanted to get Linux installed for free most LUGs organise install parties they could attend or learn to do it themselves. There are plenty of helpful people around but sometimes the easiest option is giving someone you trust a little bit of cash to help you.

[ygarl]

About 2 weeks ago, my friend was having windows problems. I always teased him to use linux. Finally he gave in and said ok. So I gave him the disk, he tried but wasn't comfortable resizing his partitions etc etc. So, he asked me to come out and install it, I agreed, then he said he'd give me 30$. Im not big on charging friends, but he lives a good distance out(gas) and has good deal of money and I about none at the time so agreed. Set him up with ubuntu, all the apps, FAT partition to share, codecs, set up the bridge, and fought with xgl and compiz for a while, so I feel it was worth the money as I was on it a good 3 hours. I am happy to report that he now realizes how bad windows was for him and uses primarily ubuntu and loves it, and is even getting good with it, sending me txt msgs like "sudo gedit /etc/gotohell" as a joke the day after we spent hours trying to get wireless working via phone and running "sudo gedit /etc/network/interfaces". Low and behold, he showed his friends and coworkers, and now there is a staggering list of people offering me as much as 60$ to install "linux". I really don't want to do it for 2 reasons
1- Linux is free, I did not make it, I did not make ubuntu, why should I get money?
2 - They aren't the most savvy people in the world, I don't want to become a tech support line.
But none will do it themselves, they don't care, don't want to know, just want it on to get started using it. But I do not have the time or money to be the santa claus of FOSS and doing it for free. I wonder, is this unethical(or even legal?), should I do it?

Ahhh... I only wish...

It's perfectly legal to be paid for your time and expertise. It's NOT legal to sell it as far as I know, but it is easily on the right side of the law and morality to lend your brain and body to put it on someone's PC.

There are people making a very VERY lucrative living installing Linux, etc for people and offering support after-the-fact.
And entire industry, in fact. If I was anything like a Guru, I'd be doing it myself instead of bossing around security guards all day in Bristol!

Good luck!

p.s. Can I borrow some money when you get sorted out properly?
;-)

[nocturn]

That's a very good thing actually.

Consider this, most stores I know charge something like 20 to 50 € to do a Windows reinstall (often even from a recovery disk). Add to this the price of the OEM version and you've lost some serious money.

A lot of Free Software proponents have always maintained that shops could still make money, offering services on Free software (Canonical does it too).

[Lovechild]

You can safely distribute copies and expect to be compensated for the cost of labor and materials. There's nothing in the GPL that says you couldn't charge say 100$ per seat, people are free to go to another vendor and get it for free - Stallman used to make money this way on free software.

[xmastree]

I agree with Lovechild. It's fair to charge for support, that's what you're doing. It costs you for gas, and time. It's not just the time setting up they're paying you for, but all the time and effort you've spent educating yourself to a level where you can provide that kind of service.
Even if your motivation wasn't business, but pleasure/hobby, you have a skill which others are prepared to pay you for.

That makes you a consultant. :cool:

Reason 2 however, goes deeper. They may expect some kind of support. Maybe you could agree to a limited number of calls/visits for a while, then charge after that. Sounds a little mercenary, but if you don't you might end up becoming the free tech support...

Nothing unethical or illegal about it though.

[Arktis]

As far as I know, there is nothing illegal about it. But if YOU think it's wrong, then don't do it.

Thirty bucks seems like a lot to me; you're not running a buisness around this and the guy is supposed to be your friend, plus you didn't do it intending to get any money. Fifteen seems more reasonable if your friend really insists on paying you.

[woedend]

thanks for your opinions guys. I guess i'll just take them one at a time as I may, and hopefully as my friend gets better he can start doing it :).
Arktis - I agree, but eh well :p. But I suppose I did not mention - the gas alone round trip was more than 15$ ;).

[nocturn]

It's NOT legal to sell it as far as I know

Yes it is, the GPL explicitly allows this. None of the licenses of the included software prevent this.

[Leo_01]

WHY NOT?
Installing a OS is like riding a roller coaster with 100 loops...
Most new or even long term users will get afraid...
Some of my friends would rather pay someone else to get Windows reinstalled. (usually i would help them reinstall for free if i am free)

Besides reinstalling linux really confusing too...(i get confused at times too!)

[darrenrxm]

I think it's only bad if you still charge them when you are unable to fix some software problem they were having with ubuntu.

[Lovechild]

one good thing about tech support for Linux.. ssh, never leave the house again to solve simple problems.

[GeneralZod]

one good thing about tech support for Linux.. ssh, never leave the house again to solve simple problems.

This is very true, and especially useful when the helpee (like my mum :)) only has 56k :)

[fuscia]

linux is free, but you don't have to be. it's perfectly reasonable to charge for your services, but you're not even doing that; people are offering you money to install their systems.

[nocturn]

Thirty bucks seems like a lot to me; you're not running a buisness around this and the guy is supposed to be your friend, plus you didn't do it intending to get any money. Fifteen seems more reasonable if your friend really insists on paying you.

It's his choice and the value of money is in the eye of the beholder... (as in 30 is a lot more money if you earn 1000 a month than it would be if you earn 5000).

Also, I don't know what distance he covered and how expensive fuel is where he lives.

[Stormy Eyes]

1- Linux is free, I did not make it, I did not make ubuntu, why should I get money?
2 - They aren't the most savvy people in the world, I don't want to become a tech support line.

So, take their $60 and be grateful they can't install Linux themselves. There's nothing wrong with charging for your time and expertise as long as you make it clear that they're paying for the installation and support, not the software itself.

[Jedeye]

If paying a little $ makes there linux experience that much more trouble free and enjoyable then all the better

[tomski]

there was a guy who was selling a whole bunch of linux distros on ebay a while ago and he even left a post in this forum.

this is think is moraly wrong or unethical because the guys in the dev team that create what ever distro spend a hell of a lof of time ironing out bugs, porting apps and just doing the magic that we take for granted & dont/do pay for but use almost on daily basis so i would quite happily beat that guy UNLESS he makes a donation to each distro for each disk is sold (fair is fair)

so to charge for supporting/installing/teaching is fine i think and at the end of the day its your time, your skill, your knowledge.

[skirkpatrick]

Don't be concerned with the fee, especially if they are offering that amount and you aren't demanding it. Most computer shops charge you $50 just to boot your PC to look at it and $50/hour for any work. Programming consultants can easily make up to $150/hour on a project.

Look at it this way, you probably pay somebody else to cut/style your hair. Yes, you could do it yourself but it's easier and probably a better job to pay somebody who knows what they are doing.

[Kevin Carmony]

Not only is this NOT unethical, it's WONDERFUL.

Your friend is NOT paying for Linux, they are paying for YOUR SUPPORT. "Linux" may be free, but your expense to get to them, your time, and so on are not. You certainly can CHOOSE to contribute this to them for free if you wish, but my guess is you won't want to do that for long or to too many friends, which would be unfortunate for Linux adoption.

Linux NEEDS paid-for support options!

If Linux is to only mean you can get it "for free" without support, then it will never compete effectively with other alternatives.

Every day we CHOOSE to pay others to do things that we could do ourselves "for free," such as cutting our hair, cooking a meal for us at a restaurant, having someone baby sit our children, having someone change the oil in our car, and so on.

The way the free market system works, is trading an exchange of energy, with others. Let's say my specialty is computers, and knowing and understanding Linux. But my friend's specialty is working on cars. Would it be wrong to say, "Hey, Frank, tell you what. I'll fix your Linux computer if you'll give my car an oil change?" Of course not. Money, is simply a piece of paper which represents our exchange of energy. In the old days the farmer would trade a chicken to the dentist to have his toothache worked on. Today we use money. But, in the end, it's just an exchange of energy which allows each of us to SPECIALIZE and do what we do best.

If the only way someone can use Linux is to become an expert in Linux, 98% of this world won't ever use it. I don't want to have to learn how to fix a car, but I DO want to drive one. So, I'm GLAD there are mechanics I can hire. I pay them with money that I earn from doing what *I* specialize in.

By all means, help get as many people using Linux as you can, and don't feel the least bit guilty about having them pay you for your time and energy.

PS...here is a blog of mine on this topic, called Free Software (http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter_archives.php?id=11).

Kevin Carmony
CEO, Linspire, Inc.

[jamyskis]

Welcome to the new IT market economy, buddy. The future of profitable software development lies not in selling shrinkwrapped software anymore, but in support services. The Ubuntu discs are free-of-charge, but if you want professional help with it, then that's how companies like Canonical make their bucks.

I thought $30 was an excellent price for the travelling and three hours assistance. A pro company would have charged at least $400.

(I should charge my sister-in-law for the numerous times I've had to remove viruses from her Windows machine in spite of my recommendations to change to Ubuntu, but I haven't the heart)

[chinaski]

Stallman used to make money this way on free software.
are you sure? I mean, I believe you, I would only know more about it.

[john_c]

What you are doing is great. Don't sweat the $30. I have done a few linux installations for free and found that sometimes the people you help are totally unwilling to learn because it is easier to ask you for help.

One install I did was for my sister who was willing to learn and has had a great experience. I have given her help once in a while but she is willing to take the time to find out things for herself.

You will likely find that the $30 is a very small amount if you have to help out after the install. Your time is worth money also, never forget that.

Keep up the good work,

John.

[nblythin]

are you sure? I mean, I believe you, I would only know more about it.
Lovechild is absolutely, 100% correct!

I just finished posting this same atricle in the OOoFf thread this morning...
This isn't the full article, but you can read that for yourself at the FSF website (link provided below):

Free Software Foundation (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html)
Selling Free Software

http://www.gnu.org/graphics/philosophical-gnu-sm.jpg

Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU project is that you should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that you should charge as little as possible -- just enough to cover the cost.

Actually we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please read on.

The word ``free'' has two legitimate general meanings; it can refer either to freedom or to price. When we speak of ``free software'', we're talking about freedom, not price. (Think of ``free speech'', not ``free beer''.) Specifically, it means that a user is free to run the program, change the program, and redistribute the program with or without changes.

Free programs are sometimes distributed gratis, and sometimes for a substantial price. Often the same program is available in both ways from different places. The program is free regardless of the price, because users have freedom in using it.

Non-free programs are usually sold for a high price, but sometimes a store will give you a copy at no charge. That doesn't make it free software, though. Price or no price, the program is non-free because users don't have freedom.

Since free software is not a matter of price, a low price isn't more free, or closer to free. So if you are redistributing copies of free software, you might as well charge a substantial fee and make some money. Redistributing free software is a good and legitimate activity; if you do it, you might as well make a profit from it.

Free software is a community project, and everyone who depends on it ought to look for ways to contribute to building the community. For a distributor, the way to do this is to give a part of the profit to the Free Software Foundation or some other free software development project. By funding development, you can advance the world of free software.

[chinaski]

thanks a lot nblythin ;)

[tekwarren]

I don't see the issue...your not selling the OS your selling your TIME and services. Case closed.

[ice60]

can someone correct me if i'm wrong?

under the GPL i'm encouraged to repackage (burn to CD and maybe make a box for it) software then sell it for as much as i can :confused:

if that's correct can i legally keep all the profit?

it just seems abit odd to me.

[Bragador]

You understood.

If you value honesty, then it's morally wrong not to tell the buyers though. If not, nothing is wrong with that.

[Lovechild]

are you sure? I mean, I believe you, I would only know more about it.

Yep, he mentions in several of his talks that he used to sell tapes with emas on them.

[Lovechild]

can someone correct me if i'm wrong?

under the GPL i'm encouraged to repackage (burn to CD and maybe make a box for it) software then sell it for as much as i can :confused:

if that's correct can i legally keep all the profit?

it just seems abit odd to me.

You are encouraging the use of free software, people are free to buy from you or go to another vendor. Add your own value like tech support to make your product - suddenly we are competing on excellent not monopoly.

Every buck you make is yours, but if you want to keep making a profit you might want to reinvest part of it by say hiring a talented coder to add features your customers want, here working with upstream is incredibly important.

Everyone benefits as you are required by the license to contribute back the code.

[ssam]

its good for you to earn a bit of money for this. if you feel bad about the money you could donate a fraction to ubuntu or a specific open source project.

the GPL says this is fine and good. they don't worry about people making huge profits because if i tried to charge $200 per hour for installing ubuntu then someone would come along and undercut me. it would be a bit rude to earn millions from free software and never give anything (not necissarily money) back. but it is quite fair to earn a living from it.

some people get worked up about anyone earning money from free software. but is it any different from charging to install windows? plenty of people who didn't help make windows do this.

a quick word of warning. if you do this for too many people you may end up being a full time ubuntu tech support person.

[commodore]

I don't think it's bad when they want to offer money for you, but when you want people to install Linux and ask them money then it's a bit bad.

[ice60]

i have to say i find it shocking people release their work under such a licence. if it was me i'd put something in the licence which makes you give some money back toward the developers if you sell it, but that's just me.

i've read the GNU pages before and seen RMS lectures and this is the one area i have difficulty internalising. i get the freedom bit and giving it away too, but not someone else selling it and the coders agreeing to it, it just seems odd.

i'd love to sell something like OOo but i think i would feel bad doing it, even though it's mostly developed by big open source companies. the only way i could do it is if i did something else too like install it for them or help lock-down windows PCs and look for malware. or maybe install Ubuntu :-D

the reason i'm asking these questions is because i really would sell free software, maybe i could add some kind of support which i could do with win32 boxes which i suppose would be the people buying anyway.

i have one more question, the comparesoft (http://www.comparesoft.com/products.html) software is actually rebranding the software, which would make it a fork or i've forgotten the name. if the developers don't mind i see no problem doing that. but, you don't have to rebrand to sell it do you?

i know the answer it just seems odd when you are thinking of doing it. anyway, i'm thinking of selling OOo as OOo and probably adding something else too - maybe just installing it for them, but i suppose it would be more likely helping lock-down the PC.

[steve.horsley]

can someone correct me if i'm wrong?

under the GPL i'm encouraged to repackage (burn to CD and maybe make a box for it) software then sell it for as much as i can :confused:

if that's correct can i legally keep all the profit?

it just seems abit odd to me.
Yup. It's a crap business model though. If you show signs of getting rich chopping CDs out at 50 bucks each, someone will undercut you at 40 bucks. If they start to get rich someone will undercut them. Eventually, it will reach the price where it's just not worth doing for less. Nobody is going to get rich. But there's no harm in accepting payment for the effort of making the CDs, even with a modest profit.

On top of which, if they're paying for your time to install and configure for them, that's real added value.

[Lovechild]

i have to say i find it shocking people release their work under such a licence. if it was me i'd put something in the licence which makes you give some money back toward the developers if you sell it, but that's just me.

i've read the GNU pages before and seen RMS lectures and this is the one area i have difficulty internalising. i get the freedom bit and giving it away too, but not someone else selling it and the coders agreeing to it, it just seems odd.

i'd love to sell something like OOo but i think i would feel bad doing it, even though it's mostly developed by big open source companies. the only way i could do it is if i did something else too like install it for them or help lock-down windows PCs and look for malware. or maybe install Ubuntu :-D

the reason i'm asking these questions is because i really would sell free software, maybe i could add some kind of support which i could do with win32 boxes which i suppose would be the people buying anyway.

i have one more question, the comparesoft (http://www.comparesoft.com/products.html) software is actually rebranding the software, which would make it a fork or i've forgotten the name. if the developers don't mind i see no problem doing that. but, you don't have to rebrand to sell it do you?

i know the answer it just seems odd when you are thinking of doing it. anyway, i'm thinking of selling OOo as OOo and probably adding something else too - maybe just installing it for them, but i suppose it would be more likely helping lock-down the PC.

You speak of a non-commercial clause which is free to a degree but not GPL compatible. It's also historically been shown to be totally unnessisary, the license ensures that what matters, work not money goes back to the authors.
If you depend on a certain project are you most likely to share your profit to ensure that your income source is secure (be that by donating hardware, money, code, hiring one of the authors even for parttime projects, etc.) or take Uncle Scrooge money showers - history shows that people who do that die out very fast, people who work with the give a little get a lot ethics stay in business.
It's simple common sense.

[Lunixfanboy]

Been there, done that, got two holey t-shirts to show for it. I have been the go-to geek for several people for years now, and I finally got tired of the "but it won't work when I click it" calls from 1200 miles away. So, now, they want help, they pay. Pure and simple. If you do not set a limit, you risk being seen as an unlimited resource to be drawn upon at will. The GeekSquad at BestBuy charges 159 USD to make a home visit to set up a Dialup connection, and 249 USD to do a Windows reinstall with updates. So, 60 USD for a Linux install? Bargain at 1 and a half times the price.

[ice60]

there's a Sunday market where my Father lives and that's where i want to sell - from a market stall on his land. but, i don't see how i can offer any kind of support from a market stall - i won't be able to install it for them or troubleshoot, plus i don't live anywhere near him so i can't do anything during the week, i'd have to catch a train the day before to get there. and selling free software by it self isn't really what i want to do.

what i'd like to do is start up a business securing PCs and offering free software for free to get more customers as something extra, maybe i should just do that, here, where i live instead.

[skirkpatrick]

That's probably the best idea.

As to your other questions, there's an article on the Net called The Cathedral and the Bazaar (if I remember correctly) that talks about why open-source works. Some of these projects have hundreds of coders contributing, some only a little bit. Most of the coders just want to be recognized for their work. Under the GPL, if you create your own version, you must provide the source code to anyone who asks for it and you must not present any of the original code or the idea for it as being your own.

As far as CompareSoft goes, that is probably not a fork but just rebranding. You are allowed to rebrand Firefox and there is another browser out there (can't think of it right now) that is based on Firefox.

[Bragador]

That's probably the best idea.

As to your other questions, there's an article on the Net called The Cathedral and the Bazaar (if I remember correctly) that talks about why open-source works. Some of these projects have hundreds of coders contributing, some only a little bit. Most of the coders just want to be recognized for their work. Under the GPL, if you create your own version, you must provide the source code to anyone who asks for it and you must not present any of the original code or the idea for it as being your own.

As far as CompareSoft goes, that is probably not a fork but just rebranding. You are allowed to rebrand Firefox and there is another browser out there (can't think of it right now) that is based on Firefox.

It's called "Netscape"

http://moz.sillydog.org/archives/ns_browser_review.php

Edit: There is also "Flock"
http://www.traffick.com/dir/web-browsers/flock.asp

[kadymae]

Look, one of my co-workers is offering to pay me to install Mac OS 10.4 on her Powerbook.

I cannot convince her that, no, it's acutally quite easy.

I'm not going to take her money for something that I consider so mindblowingly easy, but she has a skill that I don't -- she's a FANTASTIC graphic artist. She's also offered to make me a print of one of her designs and I have no problems taking that.

But back to your question --

So long as you charge what you think is a fair rate, you are being completely ethical.

There are people who feel incredibly nervous about computers and computing, and to have a skilled person come in and set their system up means a lot.

If you feel guilty about taking the money, take it and give it to "team ubuntu" as a way to encourage further development.

[Bandit]

About 2 weeks ago, my friend was having windows problems. I always teased him to use linux. Finally he gave in and said ok. So I gave him the disk, he tried but wasn't comfortable resizing his partitions etc etc. So, he asked me to come out and install it, I agreed, then he said he'd give me 30$. Im not big on charging friends, but he lives a good distance out(gas) and has good deal of money and I about none at the time so agreed. Set him up with ubuntu, all the apps, FAT partition to share, codecs, set up the bridge, and fought with xgl and compiz for a while, so I feel it was worth the money as I was on it a good 3 hours. I am happy to report that he now realizes how bad windows was for him and uses primarily ubuntu and loves it, and is even getting good with it, sending me txt msgs like "sudo gedit /etc/gotohell" as a joke the day after we spent hours trying to get wireless working via phone and running "sudo gedit /etc/network/interfaces". Low and behold, he showed his friends and coworkers, and now there is a staggering list of people offering me as much as 60$ to install "linux". I really don't want to do it for 2 reasons
1- Linux is free, I did not make it, I did not make ubuntu, why should I get money?
2 - They aren't the most savvy people in the world, I don't want to become a tech support line.
But none will do it themselves, they don't care, don't want to know, just want it on to get started using it. But I do not have the time or money to be the santa claus of FOSS and doing it for free. I wonder, is this unethical(or even legal?), should I do it?

Your providing a service to them. Nothing wrong with that what so ever.

[engla]

Look, one of my co-workers is offering to pay me to install Mac OS 10.4 on her Powerbook.

I cannot convince her that, no, it's acutally quite easy.

I'm not going to take her money for something that I consider so mindblowingly easy, but she has a skill that I don't -- she's a FANTASTIC graphic artist. She's also offered to make me a print of one of her designs and I have no problems taking that.
This is something I really agree with and is what I do with my friends and family.

Ask them for a favor in return; a dinner, new shoes, a nice painting or perhaps a home-knit sweater ;-)

[BoyOfDestiny]

This is something I really agree with and is what I do with my friends and family.

Ask them for a favor in return; a dinner, new shoes, a nice painting or perhaps a home-knit sweater ;-)


Bartering. Good stuff. :)

[incubus]

As pointed by others, that's absolutely legal and I congratulate you on the great decision.

Just be aware of one thing. As your service gets more formalized, you will also take more risks. You will probably have to help people out with upgrades or minor adjustments they want. This may be fun in the beginning, but are you getting paid months later for this?

Knock on wood this never happens, but suppose you install Linux for somebody and his or her computer stops working, or some important data is lost. This person may decide to sue you.

What I mean is as you get professional, you may want to have something like contracts that will protect you against these hassles and specify what you're responsible for or not.

It's good to see entrepreneurs concerned with ethics around! That's an example to follow.

Good luck

[nocturn]

can someone correct me if i'm wrong?

under the GPL i'm encouraged to repackage (burn to CD and maybe make a box for it) software then sell it for as much as i can :confused:

if that's correct can i legally keep all the profit?

it just seems abit odd to me.

Yes you can, it's not odd at all.

Mind you that your are still obligated under the GPL to provide access to the sources in the same way as the binaries where provided (so someone could request a CD with sources from you which you have to provide at costprice).

Secondly, let's say you charge me 10 € for an Ubuntu CD, I can still make as many copies as I like and resell them or give them away.

In practice, what happens most is that people take the software, add a small manual, boxing and maybe some hours of support and sell that combination.

This is no different from what SuSE and RedHat are doing, they take a bunch of Free Software programs, integrate them, write a manual and sell a boxed version (keeping the profit).

[nocturn]

i know the answer it just seems odd when you are thinking of doing it. anyway, i'm thinking of selling OOo as OOo and probably adding something else too - maybe just installing it for them, but i suppose it would be more likely helping lock-down the PC.

While you could just download OO binaries to a CD and sell it, this happens very little in practice.

Now, if you would download those binaries and pre-configure them with local settings, spell proofing etc. on one CD, you have added a value. Your actually being payed for your effort in packing them rather than paying for a software license.

On Windows, it is the opposite, you do not pay for the physical medium (it is calculated in off course), but for the license. Without that license, you are not allowed to use the software, even if you own the medium it is on.

[nocturn]

there's a Sunday market where my Father lives and that's where i want to sell - from a market stall on his land. but, i don't see how i can offer any kind of support from a market stall - i won't be able to install it for them or troubleshoot, plus i don't live anywhere near him so i can't do anything during the week, i'd have to catch a train the day before to get there. and selling free software by it self isn't really what i want to do.

what i'd like to do is start up a business securing PCs and offering free software for free to get more customers as something extra, maybe i should just do that, here, where i live instead.

You could offer phone support and even remote support (using SSH). I used to help out people like this a lot. The nice thing is that you don't have to leave your home to do it.

[benplaut]

A friend gave me her laptop with a busted screen to install on her new one.

Yeah... she gave me a top-of-the-line Turion with a gig of ram :D

one helluva server!

[nblythin]

I don't know how many of you have looked at the OpenOffice.org site recently... specifically the marketing materials pages. Following the release of OOo 2.0 they came out with a whole bunch of new marketing/promotional materials for download. There is a bigger selection of web links and banner ads than you can shake a stick at; you can download and print official Open Office Marketing Volunteer business cards; they have CD labels, jewel case inserts,etc. Just sooooo much stuff!!!

They make it so easy to produce very professionally packaged software, that they obviously expect people to do this. I've only given away copies of OpenOffice, the Open CD Project, and a few Linux distros to friends & family so far, but would have no problem selling them too (as the production / packaging cost can be considerable). Personally, if I started to sell FOSS software - the only thing I would do is make a donation back to each project. Not the entire amount mind you, just a portion.

OpenOffice Marketing / Artwork (http://marketing.openoffice.org/art/)

TheOpenCD Project (http://www.theopencd.org/)

[ice60]

As to your other questions, there's an article on the Net called The Cathedral and the Bazaar
i know ER wrote the book 'The Cathedral and the Bazaar' The Cathedral being proprietary software, the Bazaar - Open Source. and alot of people were influenced to use Open Soruce after reading it. is there a version online?

@ nocturn, thanks. thinking more about it i don't think i could offer support of OOo, i haven't used it enough, i was thinking more of offering troubleshooting help if it conflicts with other software something along those lines. i'll have to think of something else. perhaps Firefox, that's something i have done simple hacks on and i at least know how to use. maybe my own distro \\:D/ i read an magazine article recently which showed how easy it is to make changes to a live cd then recompile it

anyway, i'll stop thinking aloud and try and think of something good, then ask for opinions.

[Master Shake]

Funnily enough, I was considering doing this (along with spyware and virus scans for Win users...) as a part-time job.

The local "Big Box" retailers charge like $100 an hour for tech support (on-site). I could do it for $25.

[skirkpatrick]

Bragador, Flock was the one I was thinking about.

Ice60:
It's on Eric's home page, http://www.catb.org/~esr/. Specifically, http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/

[ice60]

Master Shake, sounds like a good idea :D

skirkpatrick, i just downloaded the audio \\:D/ thanks for the link.