Linus Torvalds ditches KDE 4 for gnome

[sdowney717]

http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/2009/01/linus-torvalds-ditches-kde-4-for-gnome.html

just setting the record straight.

I used to be a KDE user. I thought KDE 4.0 was such a disaster I switched to GNOME. I hate the fact that my right button doesn't do what I want it to do. But the whole "break everything" model is painful for users and they can choose to use something else.

I realize the reason for the 4.0 release, but I think they did it badly. They did so may changes it was a half-baked release. It may turn out to be the right decision in the end and I will re-try KDE, but I suspect I'm not the only person they lost.

[szymon_g]

info from that 'news' is almost 1 year old. KDE changed 'a bit' from 4.0 version

[Techsnap]

Old news, old KDE release. Also who cares what DE Linus Torvalds uses anyway.

[Cam42]

Old old old news. KDE 4.4 is on it's way, and is soooooooooooo much better.

[howefield]

Old news,

Correct.


old KDE release.

Correct.


Also who cares what DE Linus Torvalds uses anyway.

I suspect more than a few. For various reasons.

[FuturePilot]

Old news is old.

[sdowney717]

has the right mouse button menu options changed for kde 4.4?

reason I brought this up was someone gushing about KDE and Linus using KDE and not gnome

[SuperSonic4]

old old old news. Kde 4.4 is on it's way, and is soooooooooooo much better.

+4.4 :p

[HangukMiguk]

Only thing that makes this even remotely newsworthy is that the creator of Linux switches DE's on Linux. Well I just ditched gnome for Openbox. Someone put out a press release imo.

Honestly, Linus is a person. He switched to what he found most functional to him. Everyone else should do the same.

[forrestcupp]

+1 on old news, old release.

Maybe 4.4 didn't change some random functionality that one specific person (OP) wants, but every DE has some functionality that people wish were different.


Only thing that makes this even remotely newsworthy is that the creator of Linux switches DE's on Linux. Well I just ditched gnome for Openbox. Someone put out a press release imo.
Create a kernel that millions of people use and we will. :)

[HangukMiguk]

Create a kernel that millions of people use and we will. :)

I invented the tilde, so therefore I demand some cred.:lol:

[gormac]

has the right mouse button menu options changed for kde 4.4?

Yes, mouse actions are configurable in 4.4

[hoppipolla]

yeah this is seriously old, why bring this up now? o.O


I also don't get it. Back then, just use 3.5 if you don't like 4, no-one was forcing you to upgrade :-s

[blur xc]

the rest of the article that excerpt came form was interesting at least...

BM

[Frak]

Old news, old KDE release. Also who cares what DE Linus Torvalds uses anyway.
The DE Linus Torvalds uses is SERIOUS BUSINESS.

[chucky chuckaluck]

you'd think someone who's been around linux as long as torvalds, would learn how to use openbox, or a tiling wm.

[hoppipolla]

you'd think someone who's been around linux as long as torvalds, would learn how to use openbox, or a tiling wm.

](*,)

Just because you don't WANT to use them, doesn't mean you don't know HOW to use them. I used Fluxbox and that for years but I still now love KDE because I favour an ambitious, flexible, attractive, fully-featured DE, even if that means it can be larger on the disk and in RAM and potentially more buggy, that's the price I choose to pay. Different strokes fer different folks! ^_^


EDIT -- It's also a little funny that you said "someone whose been around Linux as long as Torvalds" when of course he CREATED the darn thing! lol But I'm aware you probably meant the entire open source OS framework, not just one specific kernel :)

[Techsnap]

you'd think someone who's been around linux as long as torvalds, would learn how to use openbox, or a tiling wm.

Sure it's not as long as Linus, but I've been using Linux for 8 years and I don't like anything other than KDE. *Boxes just annoy me.

[boriskarloffinablender]

yeah this is seriously old, why bring this up now? o.O


I also don't get it. Back then, just use 3.5 if you don't like 4, no-one was forcing you to upgrade :-s

i still prefer 3.5.

[handy]

](*,)

EDIT -- It's also a little funny that you said "someone whose been around Linux as long as Torvalds" when of course he CREATED the darn thing! lol But I'm aware you probably meant the entire open source OS framework, not just one specific kernel :)

He only created the kernel.

Using GNU tools, & then all of the other GNU things could be hung on it.

The FSF were in the process of creating a new System, & the Linux kernel came along at just the right time to hang that system on it.

[hoppipolla]

He only created the kernel.

Using GNU tools, & then all of the other GNU things could be hung on it.

The FSF were in the process of creating a new System, & the Linux kernel came along at just the right time to hang that system on it.

lol yes I know, but of course I was making the point that Linus has probably been around "Linux" for longer than any of us! hehe :)

[handy]

lol yes I know, but of course I was making the point that Linus has probably been around "Linux" for longer than any of us! hehe :)

The kernel, of GNU/Linux, yes.

[boriskarloffinablender]

this just in, vista sucks.


oh wait, that's old news too.....

[Frak]

this just in, vista sucks.


oh wait, that's old news too.....
ur funneh :D ^_-

[RiceMonster]

you'd think someone who's been around linux as long as torvalds, would learn how to use openbox, or a tiling wm.

I'm sure he could. I've read an interview before inwhich he said that he won't use any "do it yourself" distros because for him, the point of a distro is to make Linux easy to install. Therefore, he doesn't want to spend time setting it up so he can just focus on kernel development. I'd say the view would be very similar for WMs/DEs

[k64]

Linus Torvalds is the reason why we're here. I say we stop arguing over which DE Linus Torvalds uses. Shall we?

It'd be much nicer if we were fans of FOSS at the core (which I am) than fans of specific GUIs.

[forrestcupp]

The kernel, of GNU/Linux, yes.

I doubt if many of us have even been around GNU longer than Linus.

[hoppipolla]

I doubt if many of us have even been around GNU longer than Linus.

hear hear :)

[Roasted]

Last I heard, Linus also uses Fedora. Quick! Ubuntu users! Format / immediately and get Fedora 12!

Just think... in a year, we'll be back here... "Linus Torvalds ditches Gnome 3.0 for KDE 4.4+" since we all know Gnome's turn for a "half baked" release is coming very soon. ;)

[hoppipolla]

Last I heard, Linus also uses Fedora. Quick! Ubuntu users! Format / immediately and get Fedora 12!

Just think... in a year, we'll be back here... "Linus Torvalds ditches Gnome 3.0 for KDE 4.4+" since we all know Gnome's turn for a "half baked" release is coming very soon. ;)

I have my eye very firmly on Gnome 3 :)

I think if they play their cards right they could have a robust, polished, clean desktop environment that is more stable and in some ways stylish than KDE 4.x. However, I just can't see them matching the technical level of Qt4 or Plasma now, I think that ship has sailed. We'll see what happens :)

[Keyper7]

It'd be much nicer if we were fans of FOSS at the core (which I am) than fans of specific GUIs.

It'd be much nicer if we were fans of whatever works for each one of us, be it FOSS or not.

Actually, being a fan is quite lame in itself. It'd be nicer if we just used the things and shut the hell up.

[Roasted]

I have my eye very firmly on Gnome 3 :)

I think if they play their cards right they could have a robust, polished, clean desktop environment that is more stable and in some ways stylish than KDE 4.x. However, I just can't see them matching the technical level of Qt4 or Plasma now, I think that ship has sailed. We'll see what happens :)

As somebody who has extensively used Gnome Shell and tried to adapt it to my work flow as well as other close friends using it as well, we ultimately all gave it the thumbs down. It's practicality level in a production environment is very poor. However, Shell may land and be "omgawd amazing." It wouldn't surprise me if it is. I'm just not sold on it. Not yet, anyway.

Keep in mind, I'm not a Gnome hater. I used Gnome for about 5 years, and KDE for only about 2-3 months now. I just look at things very black and white in the most realistic, unbiased manner possible. Hence, my opinion.

[Roasted]

It'd be much nicer if we were fans of whatever works for each one of us, be it FOSS or not.

Actually, being a fan is quite lame in itself. It'd be nicer if we just used the things and shut the hell up.

group hug? ):P

[hoppipolla]

As somebody who has extensively used Gnome Shell and tried to adapt it to my work flow as well as other close friends using it as well, we ultimately all gave it the thumbs down. It's practicality level in a production environment is very poor. However, Shell may land and be "omgawd amazing." It wouldn't surprise me if it is. I'm just not sold on it. Not yet, anyway.

Keep in mind, I'm not a Gnome hater. I used Gnome for about 5 years, and KDE for only about 2-3 months now. I just look at things very black and white in the most realistic, unbiased manner possible. Hence, my opinion.

Yeah I don't really like Gnome Shell either, I am kinda hoping they take Gnome 3 in a different direction, or do something new and amazing with Shell that changes all our minds on it...


It'd be much nicer if we were fans of whatever works for each one of us, be it FOSS or not.

Actually, being a fan is quite lame in itself. It'd be nicer if we just used the things and shut the hell up.

I dunno I think having things you support and believe in is important, it's good to have passion in things :)

I mean, it's more about picking what you support carefully and ensuring your morals and efforts fall in the right places (I am of course talking about far more than software development and philosophies here lol)

[blur xc]

I dunno I think having things you support and believe in is important, it's good to have passion in things :)


I for one hope to have something more significant to be passionate about than a DE, or even an OS for that matter...

BM

[Roasted]

aw, shucks. all of this talk about passion and operating systems makes me wanna go get the ubuntu logo inked.

[chucky chuckaluck]

you'd think someone who's been around linux as long as torvalds, would learn how to use openbox, or a tiling wm.

surely, you don't expect anyone to take this comment seriously, do you???

[Roasted]

surely, you don't expect anyone to take this comment seriously, do you???

Am I missing something here??

[handy]

I doubt if many of us have even been around GNU longer than Linus.

"Us" is one thing, the other is that the GNU system was officially started in 1984.

The GNU Project was launched in 1984 to develop a complete Unix-like operating system which is free software: the GNU system.

GNU's kernel isn't finished, so GNU is used with the kernel Linux. The combination of GNU and Linux is the GNU/Linux operating system, now used by millions.

Sometimes this combination is incorrectly called Linux. There are many variants or “distributions” of GNU/Linux.

http://www.gnu.org/

[hoppipolla]

I for one hope to have something more significant to be passionate about than a DE, or even an OS for that matter...

BM


(I am of course talking about far more than software development and philosophies here lol)

:)



aw, shucks. all of this talk about passion and operating systems makes me wanna go get the ubuntu logo inked.

haha that would be awesome! I would be up for that xD


"Us" is one thing, the other is that the GNU system was officially started in 1984.

The GNU Project was launched in 1984 to develop a complete Unix-like operating system which is free software: the GNU system.

GNU's kernel isn't finished, so GNU is used with the kernel Linux. The combination of GNU and Linux is the GNU/Linux operating system, now used by millions.

Sometimes this combination is incorrectly called Linux. There are many variants or “distributions” of GNU/Linux.

http://www.gnu.org/

we do know all this man :)

The comments we made were just relaxed and mostly comical, I for one definitely know how the whole thing bolts together! :)

[handy]

:)
The comments we made were just relaxed and mostly comical, I for one definitely know how the whole thing bolts together! :)

I was replying to forrestcupp's ambiguous post. ;)

Apart from the humour involved in the interface of the egos involved in the unhappy marriage of GNU/Richard & Linux-kernel/Linus.

[Roasted]

haha that would be awesome! I would be up for that xD




We wouldn't be the first though, man. :(

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=ubuntu+tattoo&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&safe=active

[barnex]

Very old news indeed. By the way, I ditched gnome for KDE some time ago and a few years earlier I had already ditched KDE for gnome after I ditched ....

I also ditched Mandrake for Knoppix for RedHat for Fedora for Knoppix for Ubuntu for Scientific Linux for Ubuntu.

[blur xc]

"Us" is one thing, the other is that the GNU system was officially started in 1984.

The GNU Project was launched in 1984 to develop a complete Unix-like operating system which is free software: the GNU system.

GNU's kernel isn't finished, so GNU is used with the kernel Linux. The combination of GNU and Linux is the GNU/Linux operating system, now used by millions.

Sometimes this combination is incorrectly called Linux. There are many variants or “distributions” of GNU/Linux.

http://www.gnu.org/

Eh hem... Linus Disagrees...

Question: Some people advocate that it be described as GNU/Linux. I mean, what’s your thought on that, is that justified or…?

Linus Torvalds: Well, I think it’s justified but it’s justified if you actually make a GNU distribution of Linux; the same way that I think that Red Hat Linux is fine, or Suse Linux, or Debian Linux because if you actually make your own distribution of Linux you get to name the thing, but calling Linux in general GNU/Linux I think is just ridiculous.
BM

[hoppipolla]

We wouldn't be the first though, man. :(

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=ubuntu+tattoo&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&safe=active

hehe well it's a very distinctive, clever little logo! And I think in it's own way it represents more than just an OS :)

[sdowney717]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux#Kernel

Linux only exists because of a lawsuit between ATT and BSD


These factors and the lack of a widely-adopted, free kernel provided the impetus for Torvalds's starting his project. He has stated that if either the GNU or 386BSD kernels were available at the time, he likely would not have written his own[5][6].

the BSD project got caught up in a lawsuit from ATT and development of the BSD kernel floundered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Software_Distribution


The lawsuit slowed development of the free-software descendants of BSD for nearly two years while their legal status was in question, and as a result systems based on the Linux kernel, which did not have such legal ambiguity, gained greater support. Although not released until 1992, development of 386BSD predated that of Linux. Linus Torvalds has said that if 386BSD had been available at the time, he probably would not have created Linux.[5]

[handy]

Eh hem... Linus Disagrees...
BM

I've watched a video or two of Richard & Linus together in public, & it is very obvious that the two of them are at odds, though they don't indicate it on the video's I've seen, verbally.

Quite funny to watch really.

[forrestcupp]

"Us" is one thing, the other is that the GNU system was officially started in 1984.I understand all of that, but if you take Linus out of the picture, GNU would definitely not be where it is now. I doubt if HURD would be to the point that Linux is now.

I'm not in love with Linus or anything. I just think it's ridiculous when people imply that he isn't worthy of respect for what he's done. (and I'm not accusing you of doing that)


I've watched a video or two of Richard & Linus together in public, & it is very obvious that the two of them are at odds, though they don't indicate it on the video's I've seen, verbally.

Quite funny to watch really.
That would be funny. Do you have any links?

[handy]

That would be funny. Do you have any links?

I've always got somewhere between 800 -> 1000 bookmarks, which I have to go through from time to time, reorganising & culling, I must have culled them.

One that stands out in my mind was when RMS was either receiving or giving a literally huge (like 6ft long) cheque from/to someone, up on a stage, where Linus had already had a few words to say.

Linus is still standing on the stage some 10ft or so away from RMS, whilst RMS is still speaking to the audience via the mike; Linus visually calls up his two little girls (from memory they were girls) onto the stage whilst RMS is talking, the toddlers totally distract the audience, steeling RMS's limelight even though RMS has the mike.

I think that Linus may be somewhat of a devious stirrer at heart, & in this situation he was stirring a notorious stirrer. :)

From the above description, someone should be able to come up with a link for us?

[Frak]

I've always got somewhere between 800 -> 1000 bookmarks, which I have to go through from time to time, reorganising & culling, I must have culled them.

One that stands out in my mind was when RMS was either receiving or giving a literally huge (like 6ft long) cheque from/to someone, up on a stage, where Linus had already had a few words to say.

Linus is still standing on the stage some 10ft or so away from RMS, whilst RMS is still speaking to the audience via the mike; Linus visually calls up his two little girls (from memory they were girls) onto the stage whilst RMS is talking, the toddlers totally distract the audience, steeling RMS's limelight even though RMS has the mike.

I think that Linus may be somewhat of a devious stirrer at heart, & in this situation he was stirring a notorious stirrer. :)

From the above description, someone should be able to come up with a link for us?
tada: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDxMJQLXmBE

Also, Torvalds recognizes that he acts like a douche, and praises himself for it. I think it's awesome.

[handy]

tada: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDxMJQLXmBE

Also, Torvalds recognizes that he acts like a douche, and praises himself for it. I think it's awesome.

Thanks Frak, that was obviously the one I was talking about. :)

[Frak]

Thanks Frak, that was obviously the one I was talking about. :)
I love that video.

Torvalds: "This guy is full of crap"
RMS: "Blah blah blah"
Audience: "Aww, look at the cute children"
RMS: "We will meet again, Torvalds..."

[forrestcupp]

tada: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDxMJQLXmBE

Also, Torvalds recognizes that he acts like a douche, and praises himself for it. I think it's awesome.

Thank you.

My favorite line is when Stallman said, "Unfortunately, those things can only be done with non-free software." :)

[hoppipolla]

tada: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDxMJQLXmBE

Also, Torvalds recognizes that he acts like a douche, and praises himself for it. I think it's awesome.

Stallman is a weird one isn't he? lol

I do appreciate what he does and has done, and I do appreciate what he says - we SHOULD probably refer to the whole system as GNU/Linux, at least over just "Linux", but surely all they are doing at least primarily is REGULATING the system... correct?

Anywho, I agree with the forwarding of free software, fully support people's right to release their own software in whatever way they choose, and believe that people like Stallman may be taking this issue a little too seriously given the number of other very pressing concerns in the world!

[hoppipolla]

And you ever think that if they REALLY want people to start adopting a more holistic name for the GNU OS with Linux, maybe they should come up with an at least EQUALLY catchy name? heh - I mean whose gonna bother saying "GNU/Linux" or "GNU OS" when you can just say "Linux" which sounds awesome? hehe :)

I dunno man --- they need to put their heads together and come up with some AWESOME branded name to ever see off people referring to it as Linux, and Ubuntu as a distribution of "Linux". Sorry Mr Stallman but 'tis probably true :(

[Frak]

And you ever think that if they REALLY want people to start adopting a more holistic name for the GNU OS with Linux, maybe they should come up with an at least EQUALLY catchy name? heh - I mean whose gonna bother saying "GNU/Linux" or "GNU OS" when you can just say "Linux" which sounds awesome? hehe :)

I dunno man --- they need to put their heads together and come up with some AWESOME branded name to ever see off people referring to it as Linux, and Ubuntu as a distribution of "Linux". Sorry Mr Stallman but 'tis probably true :(

Normal Torvalds/Stallman conversation:

Torvalds: Just call it Linux
Stallman: You just have a kernel in the GNU system
Torvalds: Linux is catchy
Stallman: But it is GNU
Torvalds: Anybody tell you that you're full of crap?
Stallman: We can solve things with civil discussion
*Torvalds fires a spitwad at Stallman
Torvalds: There's a spitwad in your hair.

Torvalds = Awesome

[hoppipolla]

Normal Torvalds/Stallman conversation:

Torvalds: Just call it Linux
Stallman: You just have a kernel in the GNU system
Torvalds: Linux is catchy
Stallman: But it is GNU
Torvalds: Anybody tell you that you're full of crap?
Stallman: We can solve things with civil discussion
*Torvalds fires a spitwad at Stallman
Torvalds: There's a spitwad in your hair.

Torvalds = Awesome

lol, well I do understand why Stallman is a little unhappy with it being called "Linux", I mean, it puts too much emphasis on the kernel, when actually many people in many projects have contributed to make it, and of course it wouldn't really be possible without GNU either. I mean you could say that "Linux" almost has 2 meanings, it can refer to just the kernel and it can refer to the whole OS, and let's be fair so long as people don't think that Linus wrote it all single-handedly it doesn't matter toooo much...

oh well, my point still stands, if they want to combat the cool naming and branding of "Linux", they're gonna have to come up with some naming and branding of their own!! :P

[handy]

...
Anywho, I agree with the forwarding of free software, fully support people's right to release their own software in whatever way they choose, and believe that people like Stallman may be taking this issue a little too seriously given the number of other very pressing concerns in the world!

One of the pressing problems in our world is the astounding progress that certain mega-corps are making in taking over (corporatising) the internet. This is happening due to the shift of attention from TV/Newspapers magazines & data sold on CD/DVD media, to the digital data provided by the internet.

The corpies want to both be being paid for subscriptions to what will become a growing variety of services, the content of which they will provide, & in the process they will therefore regain (particularly with the younger & coming generations) the ability to have more control on what people think (politically, socially, fashionably -> what they believe & consume).

This is a HUGE problem, BIG brother is right on the doorstep NOW & the door is open to various degrees depending on which country you look at.

People like RMS are an example of the law stating that for each action there is an equal & opposite reaction, though unfortunately, he & the FSF don't have anywhere near the amount of support that they need to be able to shut BIG brother out.

Though once again, I truly hope that I am wrong.

[hoppipolla]

One of the pressing problems in our world is the astounding progress that certain mega-corps are making in taking over (corporatising) the internet. This is happening due to the shift of attention from TV/Newspapers magazines & data sold on CD/DVD media, to the digital data provided by the internet.

The corpies want to both be being paid for subscriptions to what will become a growing variety of services, the content of which they will provide, & in the process they will therefore regain (particularly with the younger & coming generations) the ability to have more control on what people think (politically, socially, fashionably -> what they believe & consume).

This is a HUGE problem, BIG brother is right on the doorstep NOW & the door is open to various degrees depending on which country you look at.

People like RMS are an example of the law stating that for each action there is an equal & opposite reaction, though unfortunately, he & the FSF don't have anywhere near the amount of support that they need to be able to shut BIG brother out.

Though once again, I truly hope that I am wrong.

hmm, fair point, although surely if this is going to be done all online or through ISPs then the OS you're running is less relevant? Or are you talking about open source applying to more than just a user's OS?

[handy]

hmm, fair point, although surely if this is going to be done all online or through ISPs then the OS you're running is less relevant? Or are you talking about open source applying to more than just a user's OS?

If in the future certain internet service packages are sold to customers, providing a variety of services (the variety will continue to grow, beyond the point of reading via RFID chips what's in your pantry & fridge/freezer & automatically adding what's needed to your shopping list in the touch screen device situated on your fridge door or elsewhere in the kitchen, that you can edit & punch in for your weekly delivery of groceries), audio & video accounts would certainly the early type of services to be provided by Rupert Murdoch, Sony et al.

If the software interface is proprietary, & runs only on MS & Apple systems, this will cause a problem for those of us who prefer to use other types of system.

If DPI, ends up being implemented over most of the internet, this will also cause great problems for those of us who don't live in windows/apple land.

The FSF amongst others are constantly fighting to defend the people of the worlds freedom from the tyranny of corporate might.

Sounds like a big wrap for the FSF guys, but that is the job that they have taken on.

In general, he who controls the flow of information controls the minds of the people.

[hoppipolla]

If in the future certain internet service packages are sold to customers, providing a variety of services (the variety will continue to grow, beyond the point of reading via RFID chips what's in your pantry & fridge/freezer & automatically adding what's needed to your shopping list in the touch screen device situated on your fridge door or elsewhere in the kitchen, that you can edit & punch in for your weekly delivery of groceries), audio & video accounts would certainly the early type of services to be provided by Rupert Murdoch, Sony et al.

If the software interface is proprietary, & runs only on MS & Apple systems, this will cause a problem for those of us who prefer to use other types of system.

If DPI, ends up being implemented over most of the internet, this will also cause great problems for those of us who don't live in windows/apple land.

The FSF amongst others are constantly fighting to defend the people of the worlds freedom from the tyranny of corporate might.

Sounds like a big wrap for the FSF guys, but that is the job that they have taken on.

In general, he who controls the flow of information controls the minds of the people.

I guess there is truth in that but... there are a lot of portions of this to control... I guess the more that is open the better. It's a difficult world to imagine though because right now the internet really is very open, I really couldn't imagine a world where things were more controlling. I guess we'll have to keep pushing for open standards and see where the future takes us - do you really think it's possible to predict that with some accuracy?

I mean for one thing Chrome OS and Ubuntu are bound to start snapping up market share within the next couple of years :)

[handy]

I guess there is truth in that but... there are a lot of portions of this to control...

There have been at least 2 threads in the last month that mention the ACTA - The Anty-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement

There is very strong moves in various countries in the West, to implement national censorship schemes, mine is one of them! :(

In the U.S. the owners (the carriers) are continually eroding the laws that prevent them from capitalising on the internet in other ways than just being carriers. Due to their huge financial clout, they are gaining more & more Senate support. The likes of Rupert Murdoch, Sony, AT&T, Intel, want to own the internet, as they are major players in creating the future of our IT/media future, due to the profits they have made from it (in various forms) in the past.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8272003.stm

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060213/chester

Following links to some exploration on a part of the subject:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=994699



I guess the more that is open the better. It's a difficult world to imagine though because right now the internet really is very open, I really couldn't imagine a world where things were more controlling. I guess we'll have to keep pushing for open standards and see where the future takes us - do you really think it's possible to predict that with some accuracy?

I mean for one thing Chrome OS and Ubuntu are bound to start snapping up market share within the next couple of years :)

Taking ownership of the internet is easy, as there are only 8 Tier 1 ISP's on the planet, so if they go with the limited freedom, corporate service provider Internet2, the rest will have to follow or stop being Tier 2 ISP's.

[ninjashoes]

lol the whole reason why I tried KDE was because I heard Linus was saying that everyone should use KDE. I actually prefer Gnome as I am more used to it. In fact I just switched from Opensuse with KDE installed back to Fedora with Gnome.

[hoppipolla]

lol the whole reason why I tried KDE was because I heard Linus was saying that everyone should use KDE. I actually prefer Gnome as I am more used to it. In fact I just switched from Opensuse with KDE installed back to Fedora with Gnome.

you wanna medal? lol


EDIT -- Ok that was a bit rude lol, what I meant to say was, firstly don't be just led by what someone else chooses, and remember that you can always use more than one you don't have to feel like you're BETRAYING another, I mean I love KDE to bits but I still have XFCE, Gnome, awesome and a bunch of other DEs on here. Just play about with it from time to time man, KDE is gorgeous IMO but I totally understand that in it's current still slightly shakey state it might not be perfect for everyone! It is very ambitious and impressive though, I wouldn't totally ditch it (if I were you I mean!), and don't feel scared to just bung it on there as a secondary DE, you don't have to commit to anything :)

[hoppipolla]

There have been at least 2 threads in the last month that mention the ACTA - The Anty-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement

There is very strong moves in various countries in the West, to implement national censorship schemes, mine is one of them! :(

In the U.S. the owners (the carriers) are continually eroding the laws that prevent them from capitalising on the internet in other ways than just being carriers. Due to their huge financial clout, they are gaining more & more Senate support. The likes of Rupert Murdoch, Sony, AT&T, Intel, want to own the internet, as they are major players in creating the future of our IT/media future, due to the profits they have made from it (in various forms) in the past.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8272003.stm

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060213/chester

Following links to some exploration on a part of the subject:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=994699



Taking ownership of the internet is easy, as there are only 8 Tier 1 ISP's on the planet, so if they go with the limited freedom, corporate service provider Internet2, the rest will have to follow or stop being Tier 2 ISP's.

True, although that still requires all 8 companies to go with it. Don't you just wish just SOME of that top level wasn't quite so capitalist? :(

As for the new laws and eroded positive old laws... it is very difficult for us to do anything isn't it, as companies hold so much clout. What CAN we do to help ensure the net remains open and free for everyone, on an individual level?

[handy]

True, although that still requires all 8 companies to go with it. Don't you just wish just SOME of that top level wasn't quite so capitalist? :(

As for the new laws and eroded positive old laws... it is very difficult for us to do anything isn't it, as companies hold so much clout. What CAN we do to help ensure the net remains open and free for everyone, on an individual level?

Write letters to people that matter. They know that for every letter they get, it equals many more people that think the same way but don't write.

I wrote Conroy, the minister who's responsibility is introducing/implementing the national internet censorship in Oz. I explained how the money would be far more usefully put to work in the development & implementation of an education program that taught people how to use the internet, how to use it in a more secure fashion, & gave people an opt-in option for some form of censorship to protect their children from certain kinds of sites. I went on to explain that once the children went to school they would very quickly learn from other children how to very quickly & easily circumvent any form of censorship.

Conroy sent me back 10 pages of blah, blah, blah, in an effort to drown me in B.S.

But he got my letter, amongst the 1000s of others, plus the emails (which aren't worth as much as a letter) & the feedback from all of the anti-paedophile, anti-porn, the religious groups & everyone else, including all of the ISPs & IT intellects, that said that censorship is NOT how you solve the problem.

Which has made it very hard for Conroy, to implement the censorship regulation, which of course has nothing to do with protecting children or anyone else that it says it will, as it is all about implementing regulations that will help BIG money own our internet in for their own profit & the brain/brand washing & political mind control that suits their bottom lines.

[Edit:] On recent reading, it looks like their are probably 10 tier 1, ISPs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_network

[llawwehttam]

I used to use KDE when it was at 3.5 but 4 made me switch to gnome. I then went even more extreme *gasp* and went to XFCE. I really like it, it just feels so clean.

[hoppipolla]

Write letters to people that matter. They know that for every letter they get, it equals many more people that think the same way but don't write.

I wrote Conroy, the minister who's responsibility is introducing/implementing the national internet censorship in Oz. I explained how the money would be far more usefully put to work in the development & implementation of an education program that taught people how to use the internet, how to use it in a more secure fashion, & gave people an opt-in option for some form of censorship to protect their children from certain kinds of sites. I went on to explain that once the children went to school they would very quickly learn from other children how to very quickly & easily circumvent any form of censorship.

Conroy sent me back 10 pages of blah, blah, blah, in an effort to drown me in B.S.

But he got my letter, amongst the 1000s of others, plus the emails (which aren't worth as much as a letter) & the feedback from all of the anti-paedophile, anti-porn, the religious groups & everyone else, including all of the ISPs & IT intellects, that said that censorship is NOT how you solve the problem.

Which has made it very hard for Conroy, to implement the censorship regulation, which of course has nothing to do with protecting children or anyone else that it says it will, as it is all about implementing regulations that will help BIG money own our internet in for their own profit & the brain/brand washing & political mind control that suits their bottom lines.

[Edit:] On recent reading, it looks like their are probably 10 tier 1, ISPs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_network

well fair enough yeah.

I do actually intend on being considerably more "active" and involved in issues like this (as well as general human rights, fair trade, environmental issues etc) once I've finished my main website project at the moment :)

I do believe that the world is better when people act and work for good! :)

And also very importantly, stand up for one another!