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LinuxFox
November 21st, 2009, 08:11 PM
I remember seeing a video about it on this forum months ago. I was reading up on some tech news, and I watched a cnet video about it. The more I hear about this ACTA treaty, the more scared I feel. The thought of having no privacy online, and getting devices like an iPod or MP3 player confiscated because of content (such as copied CDs) is scary.

I'm sorry if there's a topic about it here, but I thought I'd make this topic here. I'm not a fan of these kind of topics, but I just thought it might make good to talk about with other computer users.

Do we really have to worry and be paranoid? What's some advice and how do you feel about this. It has me worried since I don't use the net for illegal downloading.

zagz
November 21st, 2009, 08:19 PM
Keep your pants on, I highly doubt such laws will come about, and if they did then people will find ways around it like TOR, they always have found ways.

Such a law would be a hapless reaction to the advancement of IT.

Crunchy the Headcrab
November 21st, 2009, 08:21 PM
Governments should be accountable to their people. We don't need to worry about circumventing such laws, we need to worry about stopping them in the first place. The more power we give to them, the more power they will take unto themselves.

LinuxFox
November 21st, 2009, 08:31 PM
Come to think of it, I'm now wondering if it would affect open source software, something that caught my interest after using Linux for the first time.

cariboo907
November 21st, 2009, 08:37 PM
Please don't bring politics into the conversation.

LinuxFox
November 22nd, 2009, 03:50 PM
Yes, please don't bring politics into this. I want to talk about what I've been reading, in case someone knows more than me. Besides I watched a video about ACTA on YouTube, and it was mainly politics, not about the any of the problems this treaty may cause. :( Besides I'm not really into politics anyway. I started this topic because I'm into reading tech news, and I first read about it here months ago.

The bit I've read over on Tech blogs, just make this sound really scary. Makes me wonder if there would be an uproar if iPods get taken away, since they're personal devices.

ZankerH
November 22nd, 2009, 04:20 PM
That's why you should install Rockbox on your mp3 player, lets you play Free audio formats, and lets you encrypt your entire music library with strong encryption and plausible deniability.

Crunchy the Headcrab
November 22nd, 2009, 07:26 PM
That's why you should install Rockbox on your mp3 player, lets you play Free audio formats, and lets you encrypt your entire music library with strong encryption and plausible deniability.Rockbox looks tight. I haven't used it but I almost installed it on my old SanDisk Sanza.

ZankerH
November 22nd, 2009, 07:43 PM
Rockbox looks tight. I haven't used it but I almost installed it on my old SanDisk Sanza.

I ended up installing it on a 1st gen iPod nano I got on a garage sale for 5, because I was frustrated that it wouldn't just let me mount the damn thing, cp my flac music collection and play it - and it didn't support plaintext playlists.

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 12:04 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Co...rade_Agreement
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/11/acta/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fguTGDyRogY&NR=1

Im against it , but whats your take ?

SuperSonic4
January 10th, 2010, 12:08 AM
The leaked document includes a provision to force Internet Service Providers (ISPs) to provide information about suspected copyright infringers without a warrant.

I think it's highly suspicious. Like when the government had a tough time convincing the public to allow full body scanners at airports until the alleged attempt at bombing the plane

blueshiftoverwatch
January 10th, 2010, 12:12 AM
I don't think that intellectual property is even a legitimate (http://libertariannation.org/a/f31l1.html) form of property. Even if I did, I'm not so fond of the idea of the government giving up national sovereignty by entering into multinational agreements with other countries.

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 12:17 AM
yea like i usually dl (legal) distros via bittorrent and re-seed, so if you are seen as uploading , privacy goes out the window. Its getting out of hand , firstly with the rediculious lawsuits and secondly with how the corporations are blatantly dictating policies. they are just short of shutting down the net!

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 12:18 AM
i think it's highly suspicious. Like when the government had a tough time convincing the public to allow full body scanners at airports until the alleged attempt at bombing the plane

+1

Groucho Marxist
January 10th, 2010, 12:27 AM
What I found interesting was that China and Russia were given a pass and will be allowed to continue distributing illegal content.

NoaHall
January 10th, 2010, 12:30 AM
Sigh. That's all I'm allowed to say. If I say anything more, I'll be punished by the mods.

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 12:56 AM
Sigh. That's all I'm allowed to say. If I say anything more, I'll be punished by the mods.

I feel you on that one, I just hope people will follow up on it , for their own good! , if this is passed , it will be extremely difficult to reverse! and will only be followed by more restrictive measures. I encourage you all to spread the word as much as you can especially where people will see it.

Groucho Marxist
January 10th, 2010, 12:58 AM
Sigh. That's all I'm allowed to say. If I say anything more, I'll be punished by the mods.

+1

Agreed; I had to tone down my response in spite of my politics.

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 01:36 AM
heres a vid explaining it for all you lazy readers ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fguTGDyRogY&NR=1

dont just do nothing

lswb
January 10th, 2010, 02:03 AM
Reminds me of "double secret probation" from Animal House.

markharding557
January 10th, 2010, 02:26 AM
i want to quit this forum

CJ Master
January 10th, 2010, 02:31 AM
I lol'd.

judge jankum
January 10th, 2010, 02:44 AM
evenin' CJ

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 02:46 AM
theres loads of stuff on the net about it!. we can talk about it "except for politics directly related to free and open source issues." but im more interested in making you all aware if you dont know already! ,

judge jankum
January 10th, 2010, 02:52 AM
I've been through this in the music business. It always turns dirty down the line....That's why we stopped selling our music online....and made it free...

handy
January 10th, 2010, 04:16 AM
Apparently it is a behind closed doors thing; meaning it happens without any consultation of the populations that the governments are supposed to represent.

It has become increasingly obvious as the years go by that it is not the masses of population that the governments truly represent, but instead the tiny percentage of people that involved in owning &/or running the hugely powerful & wealthy mega-corporations, corporate entities that can very easily afford the huge amounts of money that they do spend on lobbying the members of government.

Only by people uniting in voice; a well organised, intelligent & funded by the people's donations voice (which scares the hell out of politicians) can we truly have an effect.

The circumstances on our planet are causing this to already happen on the environmental front.

The recent Copenhagen conference caused an even greater conglomeration of like minded organisations to apply their pressure as one. It didn't change the outcome of the conference, but it is very likely the most important thing that the conference did. This growing people power movement, (over fifteen million signed a petition, & hundreds of thousands marched peacefully in the streets) is what we have to use to control the corporations & their influence on governments worldwide.

You get out what you put in.

If you do nothing, what do you expect to get out of it?

windoze87
January 10th, 2010, 04:43 AM
Really. :confused:

I think next time I log onto the internet I'll just call a cop to monitor that I'm not doing anything illegal i.e. downloading music, stealing Windows 8 Uber Edition, or looking at photos of a resolution bigger than 640x480. How is this a benefit to the general population? It won't drive costs of Windows upgrades or CDs down- the average CD is still 20 bucks. You may be doing something totally legit, like downloading a huge amount of updates, and if they think you're downloading six copies of Mac OSX Cougar, they're allowed to basically spy on you? I don't think so. I'm sure it'll come to pass, as it is of a total benefit to large corporations and none to the consumer, and seemingly that's all government is for these days. I'm sure the MAFIAA is throwing a huge party right now.

This is just one step closer to content control on the net... who's to say that this won't get misused, and a server supplying Ubuntu downloads to the public "accidentally" gets taken down because of "misleading" information? This is all a little too Orwellian for me.

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 04:46 AM
Apparently it is a behind closed doors thing; meaning it happens without any consultation of the populations that the governments are supposed to represent.

It has become increasingly obvious as the years go by that it is not the masses of population that the governments truly represent, but instead the tiny percentage of people that involved in owning &/or running the hugely powerful & wealthy mega-corporations, corporate entities that can very easily afford the huge amounts of money that they do spend on lobbying the members of government.

Only by people uniting in voice; a well organised, intelligent & funded by the people's donations voice (which scares the hell out of politicians) can we truly have an effect.

The circumstances on our planet are causing this to already happen on the environmental front.

The recent Copenhagen conference caused an even greater conglomeration of like minded organisations to apply their pressure as one. It didn't change the outcome of the conference, but it is very likely the most important thing that the conference did. This growing people power movement, (over fifteen million signed a petition, & hundreds of thousands marched peacefully in the streets) is what we have to use to control the corporations & their influence on governments worldwide.

You get out what you put in.

If you do nothing, what do you expect to get out of it?
Exactly , thats why we need to make as many people aware as possible. Use any means at your disposal, even a link in your sig.

magmon
January 10th, 2010, 04:51 AM
Note to self... Start pirating using the neibor's internet...

I don't get what this changes to be honest xD. Isn't the distribution of counterfeit goods already illegal?

judge jankum
January 10th, 2010, 04:53 AM
Customs Officer: Let me see your iPod.
Me: Go f*ck yourself! yeah, two or three times

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 05:01 AM
Note to self... Start pirating using the neibor's internet...

I don't get what this changes to be honest xD. Isn't the distribution of counterfeit goods already illegal?

ISP's will be forced to moniter everything to ensure no copyright infringements have occurred. you know for the good of the user like ;-). This is no joke , the internet is the only true form of free speech we have left! , there is some efforts being made against the acta. see here for the eff's efforts against it!

http://www.eff.org/issues/acta

judge jankum
January 10th, 2010, 05:03 AM
ISP's will be forced to moniter everything to ensure no copyright infringements have occurred. you know for the good of the user like ;-). This is no joke , the internet is the only true form of free speech we have left! , there is some efforts being made against the acta. see here for the eff's efforts against it!

http://www.eff.org/issues/acta

My late fathers words.....If we are not in control of our lives...someone else will be....

magmon
January 10th, 2010, 05:04 AM
ISP's will be forced to moniter everything to ensure no copyright infringements have occurred. you know for the good of the user like ;-). This is no joke , the internet is the only true form of free speech we have left! , there is some efforts being made against the acta. see here for the eff's efforts against it!

http://www.eff.org/issues/acta

It would seem our days of free movies have come to an end x.x What of music? If downloaded through songbird + skreemr, could it be detected??

judge jankum
January 10th, 2010, 05:06 AM
It would seem our days of free movies have come to an end x.x What of music? If downloaded through songbird + skreemr, could it be detected??

These issues are not even about right or wrong, they're about greed and power..

magmon
January 10th, 2010, 05:08 AM
These issues are not even about right or wrong, they're about greed and power..

If you made something, I'm sure you'd want the money from it. However, if what you make sells for $1 per download and brings in millions, who cares if I get that $1 for free =P? I still buy the CDs later... Usually...

judge jankum
January 10th, 2010, 05:13 AM
If you made something, I'm sure you'd want the money from it. However, if what you make sells for $1 per download and brings in millions, who cares if I get that $1 for free =P? I still buy the CDs later... Usually...

I don't pull in millions lol" but as an artist, I figure anyone that would grab one of my songs will surely come to a show or concert. So I don't feel I lose anything by having my music free to download.. As an artist having my music online free works for me, not against me..

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 05:13 AM
some of you are missing the bigger picture , its not even about "free" (as in cost) stuff, its the privacy concerns (free as in speech)that are worse!. they will essentially be able to monitor the world. like the great firewall except the only way around it would be vpn/s / darknets and im sure they'd be targeted next.

magmon
January 10th, 2010, 05:17 AM
some of you are missing the bigger picture , its not even about "free" (as in cost) stuff, its the privacy concerns (free as in speech)that are worse!. they will essentially be able to monitor the world. like the great firewall except the only way around it would be vpn/s / darknets and im sure they'd be targeted next.

There would have to be ways around it. OSes that don't support it, encryption, firewalls, something would be able to avoid or thwart their spying... One would hope, at least.

judge jankum
January 10th, 2010, 05:17 AM
some of you are missing the bigger picture , its not even about "free" (as in cost) stuff, its the privacy concerns (free as in speech)that are worse!. they will essentially be able to monitor the world. like the great firewall except the only way around it would be vpn/s / darknets and im sure they'd be targeted next.

We're not missing it Dill, but each issue brings them one step closer to totally taking away all freedom.

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 05:29 AM
There would have to be ways around it. OSes that don't support it, encryption, firewalls, something would be able to avoid or thwart their spying... One would hope, at least.

all i can think of for now is vpn's , darknets but that would only get small networks that would be offline and would be surely considered illegal as they would not be able to control it so they find a way around it. sure we can encrypt our stuff , but if they have a warrant there is not much we can do. im sure there is more knowledgeable people here with advice. they plan to use dpi

"Deep Packet Inspection (and filtering) enables advanced security functions as well as internet data mining, eavesdropping, and censorship. Advocates of net neutrality fear that DPI technology will be used to reduce the openness of the Internet."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_packet_inspection

judge jankum
January 10th, 2010, 05:33 AM
all i can think of for now is vpn's , darknets but that would only get small networks that would be offline and would be surely considered illegal as they would not be able to control it so they find a way around it. sure we can encrypt our stuff , but if they have a warrant there is not much we can do. im sure there is more knowledgeable people here with advice. they plan to use dpi

"Deep Packet Inspection (and filtering) enables advanced security functions as well as internet data mining, eavesdropping, and censorship. Advocates of net neutrality fear that DPI technology will be used to reduce the openness of the Internet."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_packet_inspection


I don't believe in giving government that kind of control and power over "we the people" to begin with...

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 05:44 AM
I don't believe in giving government that kind of control and power over "we the people" to begin with...

Me too man , but we have to stand up for our rights!

judge jankum
January 10th, 2010, 05:46 AM
Me too man , but we have to stand up for our rights!
Dublin? Ireland?

magmon
January 10th, 2010, 05:47 AM
Which countries does this new agreement encompass?

judge jankum
January 10th, 2010, 05:48 AM
Which countries does this new agreement encompass?
Itraced my family tree to Ireland.

magmon
January 10th, 2010, 05:49 AM
Itraced my family tree to Ireland.

Excuse me o.O?

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 05:57 AM
Dublin? Ireland?

yea , I just found out we have a pirate party here too , Iv contacted them to show my support and to see what actions they plan to take against the ACTA , they want copyright reform Most countries have a pirate party now i think

handy
January 10th, 2010, 11:58 AM
Which countries does this new agreement encompass?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 04:40 PM
for those who have not read the wiki,

"Threat to free software

The Free Software Foundation has published "Speak out against ACTA", stating that the ACTA threatens free software by creating a culture "in which the freedom that is required to produce free software is seen as dangerous and threatening rather than creative, innovative, and exciting." Specifically the FSF argues that ACTA will make it more difficult and expensive to distribute free software via file sharing and P2P technologies like BitTorrent, which are currently used to distribute large amounts of free software. The FSF also argues that ACTA will make it harder for users of free operating systems to play non-free media because DRM protected media would not be legally playable with free software."

cascade9
January 10th, 2010, 04:54 PM
These issues are not even about right or wrong, they're about greed and power..

+1. I'd like to go on but...


Sigh. That's all I'm allowed to say. If I say anything more, I'll be punished by the mods.

There would have to be ways around it. OSes that don't support it, encryption, firewalls, something would be able to avoid or thwart their spying... One would hope, at least.

Hope all you want. IMO, sooner, or maybe later, encryption ALONE will be cause to open up your entire logged history, and possibly (probably?) they will find something, anything, that will give them (semi) legal reasons to raid your house, image your hdds (or seize your computer) and then trawl though them to find out if you have some 'illegal' MP3.

Heck, they way things are going, even something in your history like the search term "Britney Spears rapidshare" could get you at least a major fine....


for those who have not read the wiki,

"Threat to free software

The Free Software Foundation has published "Speak out against ACTA", stating that the ACTA threatens free software by creating a culture "in which the freedom that is required to produce free software is seen as dangerous and threatening rather than creative, innovative, and exciting." Specifically the FSF argues that ACTA will make it more difficult and expensive to distribute free software via file sharing and P2P technologies like BitTorrent, which are currently used to distribute large amounts of free software. The FSF also argues that ACTA will make it harder for users of free operating systems to play non-free media because DRM protected media would not be legally playable with free software."

Its already illegal (in some countries) to 'circumvent a copy protection scheme' (or however its put).

'm far more worried about 'rolling back the clock' and making every purchased form of media becoming DRM only.

Yeah, I dare say that somebody here will think I'm a tin-foil-hatter. Maybe I am. HOPEFULLY I am. But I doubt it.

*thinks*

Hello echelon and I for one would like welcome our new smiling fascist governments!

Shpongle
January 10th, 2010, 09:37 PM
+1. I'd like to go on but...




Hope all you want. IMO, sooner, or maybe later, encryption ALONE will be cause to open up your entire logged history, and possibly (probably?) they will find something, anything, that will give them (semi) legal reasons to raid your house, image your hdds (or seize your computer) and then trawl though them to find out if you have some 'illegal' MP3.

Heck, they way things are going, even something in your history like the search term "Britney Spears rapidshare" could get you at least a major fine....



Its already illegal (in some countries) to 'circumvent a copy protection scheme' (or however its put).

'm far more worried about 'rolling back the clock' and making every purchased form of media becoming DRM only.

Yeah, I dare say that somebody here will think I'm a tin-foil-hatter. Maybe I am. HOPEFULLY I am. But I doubt it.

*thinks*

Hello echelon and I for one would like welcome our new smiling fascist governments!

well there is always the analogue /digital comparison. if you can see/hear something being played it can be recorded. The privacy concerns are more troubling, it'll be just like the great firewall, The amount of people who still haven't heard of this is shocking

try spread the word! , even if its a sig people will see it

Shpongle
January 11th, 2010, 02:03 AM
just thought id bump this so more people would see it

KiwiNZ
January 11th, 2010, 02:06 AM
please do not bump after such a short time . thank you

judge jankum
January 11th, 2010, 02:10 AM
just thought id bump this so more people would see it

The ironic thing about freedom is it's not free, if you don't stand and fight for it, someone else has the freedom to take it away....

JDorfler
January 11th, 2010, 02:38 AM
This isn't cool. This isn't cool one bit. I understand paying for a personal copy of a movie, but restricting me for what I can do with those 1s and 0s so I can watch it on the media of my choice is crap. Also, lumping FOSS software in with pirating is a bunch of bunk as well. I foresee bad things in the future.

handy
January 11th, 2010, 10:29 AM
If ACTA does get implemented, I expect that there will very likely be at least one very big battle in court.

It might be one of those situations where many of us, coughing up $10- or so adds enough weight to the funds required to mount a real challenge.

Once overturned in one country, it will start the ball rolling in the others. It really needs to be turned over in the States, first, as the U.S. seems to be the home of the prime motivators behind the kind of thinking that ACTA exemplifies.

Shpongle
January 12th, 2010, 01:47 AM
If ACTA does get implemented, I expect that there will very likely be at least one very big battle in court.

It might be one of those situations where many of us, coughing up $10- or so adds enough weight to the funds required to mount a real challenge.

Once overturned in one country, it will start the ball rolling in the others. It really needs to be turned over in the States, first, as the U.S. seems to be the home of the prime motivators behind the kind of thinking that ACTA exemplifies.

to be honest i think it will get implemented and no matter what we try it wont stop it, itll be enforced , since finding out i have told lots of people and most dont even care. . they will when they cant download or send certain emails or access certain sites, with that attitude, it doesnt look like there will be much of a fight, its true what they say money makes the world go round.

handy
January 12th, 2010, 05:19 AM
to be honest i think it will get implemented and no matter what we try it wont stop it, itll be enforced , since finding out i have told lots of people and most dont even care. . they will when they cant download or send certain emails or access certain sites, with that attitude, it doesnt look like there will be much of a fight, its true what they say money makes the world go round.

I'm sure that the Free Software Foundation, amongst other civil liberty groups are very well aware of ACTA.

I expect that there are plans to contest this in court, & it can be beaten.

Shpongle
January 15th, 2010, 08:34 PM
I'm sure that the Free Software Foundation, amongst other civil liberty groups are very well aware of ACTA.

I expect that there are plans to contest this in court, & it can be beaten.

yea hopefully it is stopped in its tracks, i have been in contact with the Irish pirate party here and they plan to contest it too!

doas777
January 15th, 2010, 08:36 PM
anti

Psumi
January 15th, 2010, 08:53 PM
That's against the fourth amendment of the united states.

I'm anti.

CottonCandy
January 16th, 2010, 04:40 AM
I just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I hadn't heard of this before, but it's important info for people to know, so thanks for sharing!

undecim
March 23rd, 2010, 01:20 AM
What I want to know is why most governments are so against revealing the text of the ACTA. What do they have to hide?

Chris Edgell
March 30th, 2010, 01:37 AM
heres a vid explaining it for all you lazy readers ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fguTGDyRogY&NR=1

THAT VIDEO HAS BEEN DELETED. That is really something.


My late fathers words.....If we are not in control of our lives...someone else will be....

Or Bob Dylan who said, "You're gonna' have to serve somebody."


These issues are not even about right or wrong, they're about greed and power..

It may be the devil or it may be the Lord, but you're gonna have to serve somebody...(of course still Dylan)


+1. I'd like to go on but...

Yeah, I dare say that somebody here will think I'm a tin-foil-hatter. Maybe I am. HOPEFULLY I am. But I doubt it.

*thinks*

Hello echelon and I for one would like welcome our new smiling fascist governments!

And me, sitting here in my tin foil hat.


What I want to know is why most governments are so against revealing the text of the ACTA. What do they have to hide?

Did I copy these quotes? Seems so, I do like these quotes.

Naggobot
April 1st, 2010, 08:51 AM
What I want to know is why most governments are so against revealing the text of the ACTA. What do they have to hide?I do not know but my tinfoil hat is becoming awfully tight, it is starting to hurt

Those of you over the seas may not have noticed that European parliament requested for Commission to make ACTA documents public.


European Parliament resolution on transparency and the state of play of
ACTA negotiations B7‑0180/2010http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+MOTION+P7-RC-2010-0154+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

This motion was passed nearly unanimously, only 13 representatives of the parliament voted against the motion. European Commission was forced by this motion to give out information regarding ACTA negotiations.

This is the EDRI headline on the subject


ENDitorial: Counterfeit version of ACTA presented by European CommissionFull text can be found from
http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number8.6/counterfeit-version-of-ACTA+

ACTA agreement may have fundamental effects on our civil rights. I think it is amazing that there has not been a single note of this in at least in Finnish mass media. Is it that the old mass media, news papers and television have come to the end their life? The old large news institutions have failed to inform the public on this matter. If a subject this important and large can pass without it raising some alarm bells in the mass media it is clear that these institutions do not serve us anymore in a way they should. There should be a public outcry of the way these negotiations have been handled, but so far only on-line communities have noticed this matter.

del_diablo
April 1st, 2010, 12:55 PM
In Norway i think it was the ye old workers new paper that covered it, on page 22 or something similar.
*sigh* What has the world come to? ACTA is quite ridiculess.

phrostbyte
April 1st, 2010, 02:42 PM
Looks like some pretty awesome stuff. I especially like the non-democratic aspects of the whole process.

zephiel
April 1st, 2010, 04:02 PM
What is ACTA
Here, read this
http://www.stopacta.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4
ACTA if passed can make it so all freeware and share ware distributions, media, and files
would be illegal to share or post on the internet, along with allowing the government to watch what ever you do and give them permission to search you hdd *hard drive* without your consent. This would probably include Linux distrbs as Linux could be used to find ways around there control. That means no more Linux *possibly Freebsd as well*.
We cant let them do this.
We need to protect our rights and save the internet.
If you are interested in joining our cause our site is http://www.stopacta.org
We also have an irc channel.

Thank you for your time.
Zephiel

pyritu
April 2nd, 2010, 01:53 AM
ACTA is the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement. It's an international treaty being discussed by the US, Japan, NZ, the European Union, and others. It has a set of guidelines for countries to follow involving the enforcement of copyright law on the internet. It also has a rule in it that says 'no circumventing DRM'.

After ACTA is passed, MS and the RIAA would team together to pass a law against open source operating systems. The fact you can modify and compile the source code on your own means that, even if some people made DRM for Linux so it's legal,someone could modify the code and remove the DRM. The RIAA doesn't want that, so they'd want a law passed that'd ban open source software, and MS would want it too because it'd help them secure their monopoly.

There's an article here about it, which also links to the leaked document: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/03/complete-acta-text-finally-leaked.ars

zephiel
April 2nd, 2010, 01:54 AM
Any one Who Wants to help stop Acta, please join us at http://www.stopacta.org.

pyritu
April 2nd, 2010, 02:22 AM
Btw, this is ABSOLUTELY NOT an April Fools joke. This is serious.

Shpongle
April 2nd, 2010, 02:27 AM
we know see sig

zephiel
April 2nd, 2010, 02:33 AM
It is a rather Scary thing. I I'm Concerned about this too. We need to prevent it from happening, cause who know how bad it could become. It could end up worse than we think.

Frak
April 2nd, 2010, 02:44 AM
ACTA is the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement. It's an international treaty being discussed by the US, Japan, NZ, the European Union, and others. It has a set of guidelines for countries to follow involving the enforcement of copyright law on the internet. It also has a rule in it that says 'no circumventing DRM'.

After ACTA is passed, MS and the RIAA would team together to pass a law against open source operating systems. The fact you can modify and compile the source code on your own means that, even if some people made DRM for Linux so it's legal,someone could modify the code and remove the DRM. The RIAA doesn't want that, so they'd want a law passed that'd ban open source software, and MS would want it too because it'd help them secure their monopoly.

There's an article here about it, which also links to the leaked document: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/03/complete-acta-text-finally-leaked.ars
You can't ban Open Source. That's like banning a language. Besides, Microsoft doesn't care about Open Source, in fact, they contribute to it heavily.

Mr. Picklesworth
April 2nd, 2010, 02:45 AM
On the bright side, if they keep this up, there may come a day when the only media people can consume (without fearing the law if they do so much as sneeze) is free. That would be a nice boon for Open Source and Creative Commons.

Shpongle
April 2nd, 2010, 02:49 AM
they have already started , what do you think the digital economy bill is in the UK. They will use the media to tell people its for the fight against piracy etc. . . and people will take no notice , well most of them. best thing we can do is inform people.

pyritu
April 2nd, 2010, 02:52 AM
ACTA is the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement. It's an international treaty being discussed by the US, Japan, NZ, the European Union, and others. It has a set of guidelines for countries to follow involving the enforcement of copyright law on the internet. It also has a rule in it that says 'no circumventing DRM'.

After ACTA is passed, MS and the RIAA would team together to pass a law against open source operating systems. The fact you can modify and compile the source code on your own means that, even if some people made DRM for Linux so it's legal,someone could modify the code and remove the DRM. The RIAA doesn't want that, so they'd want a law passed that'd ban open source software, and MS would want it too because it'd help them secure their monopoly.

There's an article here about it, which also links to the leaked document: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...lly-leaked.ars (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/03/complete-acta-text-finally-leaked.ars)

zephiel
April 2nd, 2010, 02:52 AM
http://www.stopacta.org/
join here to help prevent ACTA

Shpongle
April 2nd, 2010, 02:53 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrRuuSlCCOc

pyritu
April 2nd, 2010, 03:06 AM
You can't ban Open Source. That's like banning a language. Besides, Microsoft doesn't care about Open Source, in fact, they contribute to it heavily.

If the law says no circumventing DRM technology, and new PCs are installed with Windows, which has DRM, then it would be illegal to install Linux on a new system.

red_Marvin
April 2nd, 2010, 03:11 AM
It is possible to buy systems without an installed operating system, even if companies stopped providing that, one could still buy parts and put them together oneself.

Frak
April 2nd, 2010, 03:11 AM
If the law says no circumventing DRM technology, and new PCs are installed with Windows, which has DRM, then it would be illegal to install Linux on a new system.
That's not circumventing DRM. Circumventing is removing the copy protection from the medium itself. The government has no control over your computer in this regard.

pyritu
April 2nd, 2010, 03:14 AM
That's not circumventing DRM. Circumventing is removing the copy protection from the medium itself.

Lawyers could argue that by installing Linux that does not have DRM, on a new PC that has Windows with DRM, one is breaking, and thus circumventing the DRM on their system.

red_marvin has a point, but still. ><

Frak
April 2nd, 2010, 03:16 AM
Lawyers could argue that by installing Linux that does not have DRM, on a new PC that has Windows with DRM, one is breaking, and thus circumventing the DRM on their system.

red_marvin has a point, but still. ><
If your system doesn't have DRM, you won't be able to use the media anyway. DRM only works if your system has a fully functioning DRM system. If Linux doesn't have DRM, it won't work.

Groucho Marxist
April 2nd, 2010, 03:18 AM
What I want to know is why most governments are so against revealing the text of the ACTA. What do they have to hide?

In answer to the first question, they do it because it's easier to rush an unpopular bill into law than it would be to reveal the facts to an angry public.

In answer to the second question, everything.

pyritu
April 2nd, 2010, 03:19 AM
If your system doesn't have DRM, you won't be able to use the media anyway. DRM only works if your system has a fully functioning DRM system. If Linux doesn't have DRM, it won't work.

I'm genuinely afraid that if they can pass legislation that says everyone's computer must have DRM, or they make it so that everyone must have DRM to access the internet, then people will use the technology to censor the internet too.. and Linux would be illegal. :(

Frak
April 2nd, 2010, 03:20 AM
I'm genuinely afraid that if they can pass legislation that says everyone's computer must have DRM, or they make it so that everyone must have DRM to access the internet, then people will use the technology to censor the internet too.. and Linux would be illegal. :(
Impossible. There are many laws that actively prohibit the government from exclusively prohibiting technologies and competitors. Your fear is unfounded.

pyritu
April 2nd, 2010, 03:23 AM
Impossible. There are many laws that actively prohibit the government from exclusively prohibiting technologies and competitors. Your fear is unfounded.

I certainly hope so.. but now that I think of it, even if they can't make Linux illegal, they COULD make it impossible for it to access the internet without DRM.. it says in the treaty that it's up to the ISPs to enforce copyright law onto it's users..

Frak
April 2nd, 2010, 03:25 AM
I certainly hope so.. but now that I think of it, even if they can't make Linux illegal, they COULD make it impossible for it to access the internet without DRM.. it says in the treaty that it's up to the ISPs to enforce copyright law onto it's users..
Except that DRM has very little to do with external content being fed over normal protocols.

ubunterooster
April 2nd, 2010, 03:28 AM
If the law says no circumventing DRM technology, and new PCs are installed with Windows, which has DRM, then it would be illegal to install Linux on a new system.

COME ON! I got prepared for this months ago. The lawyers are dense. Let me elaborate:
I have a device that if you can plug your regular headphones into the computer and liten to a song, once I copy it, you will not be able to tell a difference. They think they have everything under their power but they miss these huge gaps.

pyritu
April 2nd, 2010, 03:29 AM
Except that DRM has very little to do with external content being fed over normal protocols.

True, but ISPs can change their software and protocols.. and there are other ways the ISP can require one's machine to confirm it has DRM in order to access the internet..

Frak
April 2nd, 2010, 03:30 AM
True, but ISPs can change their software and protocols.. and there are other ways the ISP can require one's machine to confirm it has DRM in order to access the internet..
ISPs cannot enforce restrictions on software.

pyritu
April 2nd, 2010, 03:31 AM
COME ON! I got prepared for this months ago. The lawyers are dense. Let me elaborate:
I have a device that if you can plug your regular headphones into the computer and liten to a song, once I copy it, you will not be able to tell a difference. They think they have everything under their power but they miss these huge gaps.

You have a point there.

pyritu
April 2nd, 2010, 03:32 AM
ISPs cannot enforce restrictions on software.

That's true too. I guess I'm just getting paranoid because of how the RIAA is, and how I couldn't stand it if they could really have their way.

mcoleman44
April 2nd, 2010, 03:34 AM
I normally play nice on the Internet, but if this were to come about, I fear that I would lose that self control.

ubunterooster
April 2nd, 2010, 03:38 AM
Likely all of you can circumvent it with any two computers also, regardless of OS.

The problem is when all other CODECS are outlawed. Still my way will likely work.

My device is called a line-in. You can record with it. They will need to remove all analog ports. The law cannot defeat the imagination, it can only hinder it.

cariboo907
April 2nd, 2010, 03:41 AM
Merged two threads on the same subject

Instead of creating more threads, could we post any thoughts, links and anything else in this thread.

mcoleman44
April 2nd, 2010, 03:42 AM
Thank you for explaining, because I was just dumbfounded for a few seconds.

thatguruguy
April 2nd, 2010, 03:44 AM
Lawyers could argue that by installing Linux that does not have DRM, on a new PC that has Windows with DRM, one is breaking, and thus circumventing the DRM on their system.

red_marvin has a point, but still. ><

I'm a lawyer, and I can say with absolute certainty that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Agrezar
April 2nd, 2010, 03:46 AM
I seriously wish people would worry more about where the planet is going and not worry about their damn pocketbooks. All in the name of a piece of paper that people worship is pathetic. I seriously wish people would wake up and see that we as a whole are so on the wrong path.

Eventually (by no means in the near future) we will use up all our resources. The focus of our nation, the world, should be on one thing, getting off this rock. We would be plain ignorant to think that this earth is going to be around forever.

In my eyes, this ACTA is just another step for big brother to put a cap on our freedom. We NEED communication, we NEED to learn, we NEED to gather together all the knowledge of this world so that we CAN advance. I am sure one of their points in this is to help protect the normal user but the only real way to protect someone is to teach them, not to cover their eyes with a cloth.

The internet is our tool to communicate. They can never take it away from us imo, we can never let it.

To the people who are trying to implement this: Do you honestly think you can put a cap on Freedom? People will find a way, no matter what you do, we will always find a way, find some other avenue to pursue in your boredom, like better ways to create energy so that people aren't slaves to the energy corps.

thatguruguy
April 2nd, 2010, 03:48 AM
To the people who are trying to implement this: Do you honestly think you can put a cap on Freedom? People will find a way, no matter what you do, we will always find a way, find some other avenue to pursue in your boredom, like better ways to create energy so that people aren't slaves to the energy corps.

I seriously doubt that "the people who are trying to implement this" are reading this thread.

Agrezar
April 2nd, 2010, 03:51 AM
I seriously doubt that "the people who are trying to implement this" are reading this thread.

... you just never know do you.

mcoleman44
April 2nd, 2010, 03:53 AM
I seriously wish people would worry more about where the planet is going and not worry about their damn pocketbooks. All in the name of a piece of paper that people worship is pathetic. I seriously wish people would wake up and see that we as a whole are so on the wrong path.

Eventually (by no means in the near future) we will use up all our resources. The focus of our nation, the world, should be on one thing, getting off this rock. We would be plain ignorant to think that this earth is going to be around forever.

In my eyes, this ACTA is just another step for big brother to put a cap on our freedom. We NEED communication, we NEED to learn, we NEED to gather together all the knowledge of this world so that we CAN advance. I am sure one of their points in this is to help protect the normal user but the only real way to protect someone is to teach them, not to cover their eyes with a cloth.

The internet is our tool to communicate. They can never take it away from us imo, we can never let it.

To the people who are trying to implement this: Do you honestly think you can put a cap on Freedom? People will find a way, no matter what you do, we will always find a way, find some other avenue to pursue in your boredom, like better ways to create energy so that people aren't slaves to the energy corps.

Maybe some decaf tomorrow

pyritu
April 2nd, 2010, 03:54 AM
I'm a lawyer, and I can say with absolute certainty that you have no idea what you're talking about.

I meant hypothetically, in the situation that the ACTA treaty has been agreed upon, and as per the rules of the treaty, there comes to be a law that says it's illegal to break or circumvent DRM.

However, I might just be overestimating the RIAA's abilities to get stupid laws passed, and be a little paranoid knowing that's what would happen if the RIAA could really have their way all the time.

It really seems like it from what they did with passing DMCA despite a previous law that said it was legal for one to make copies for themselves of music and other copyrighted material they had.

Frak
April 2nd, 2010, 04:05 AM
... you just never know do you.
I'd imaging they're eating crumpets off their servants hind-side. That's what I would do if I was filthy rich and had crumpets.

thatguruguy
April 2nd, 2010, 04:09 AM
I meant hypothetically, in the situation that the ACTA treaty has been agreed upon, and as per the rules of the treaty, there comes to be a law that says it's illegal to break or circumvent DRM.

However, I might just be overestimating the RIAA's abilities to get stupid laws passed, and be a little paranoid knowing that's what would happen if the RIAA could really have their way all the time.

It really seems like it from what they did with passing DMCA despite a previous law that said it was legal for one to make copies for themselves of music and other copyrighted material they had.

If I remove windows from my computer, I'm not "circumventing" anything.

Irrespective of whether anyone likes it or not, one of the major exports of the U.S. is intellectual property, whether that takes the form of computer programs or music or movies. As such, the U.S. has a significant economic interest in seeing to it that the rest of the world pays to receive the intellectual property made here. For instance, the movie "Avatar" has made >$2 billion world-wide; only $700 mill. of that came from the U.S. We don't manufacture goods here any more, we make ideas and entertainment. The rest of the world pays us for that. As such, the U.S. has a vested interest in protecting intellectual property.

There is also a real national security issue. It is illegal to export technologies which utilize 128 bit (or better) encryption from the U.S. The reason for that is simple; the U.S. needs to, and does, electronically eavesdrop on suspected terrorists and/or other perceived enemies. The better the encryption technology, the harder it is to find out what the bad guys are planning. If the encryption technology is available for free download, it's hard to control who ends up having it.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT KEEPING LINUX OFF THE DESKTOP.

SRSLY.

swoll1980
April 2nd, 2010, 04:22 AM
If I took a photo of a painting, for my own viewing, would that be theft? Just wondering.

thatguruguy
April 2nd, 2010, 04:30 AM
If I took a photo of a painting, for my own viewing, would that be theft? Just wondering.

Here's the lawyer answer: "That depends."

If you want, I'd be happy to charge you to find an answer.

zephiel
April 2nd, 2010, 04:45 AM
I think we squabble and argue to much, when we could be finding a solution.

Saint_
April 2nd, 2010, 05:13 AM
Here's the lawyer answer: "That depends."

If you want, I'd be happy to charge you to find an answer.

With all due respect, this is the internet and until you can actually prove you're a lawyer, I've got my doubts. No offense, just a skeptic by nature. As for the national security venture, you may very well have a point but at the same time, I'd rather not have the government confiscating my **** because they "suspect" I might be somehow, doing something illegal on the internet. This goes beyond copyright counterfeiting, this is an attack on the freedom of people everywhere.

pyritu
April 2nd, 2010, 05:19 AM
If I remove windows from my computer, I'm not "circumventing" anything.

Irrespective of whether anyone likes it or not, one of the major exports of the U.S. is intellectual property, whether that takes the form of computer programs or music or movies. As such, the U.S. has a significant economic interest in seeing to it that the rest of the world pays to receive the intellectual property made here. For instance, the movie "Avatar" has made >$2 billion world-wide; only $700 mill. of that came from the U.S. We don't manufacture goods here any more, we make ideas and entertainment. The rest of the world pays us for that. As such, the U.S. has a vested interest in protecting intellectual property.

There is also a real national security issue. It is illegal to export technologies which utilize 128 bit (or better) encryption from the U.S. The reason for that is simple; the U.S. needs to, and does, electronically eavesdrop on suspected terrorists and/or other perceived enemies. The better the encryption technology, the harder it is to find out what the bad guys are planning. If the encryption technology is available for free download, it's hard to control who ends up having it.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT KEEPING LINUX OFF THE DESKTOP.

SRSLY.

DRM is all about technologically enforcing copyright law by making people technically unable to distribute or access copyrighted material without authorization to do so, and the ACTA treaty says not to circumvent DRM. We can logically conclude from this, that the RIAA thinks they will be able to make it technologically impossible to violate copyright law over the internet, look forward to a day when they have acheived that goal, and will work towards this goal to the best of their plentiful resources until they do.

As you said, the US is very interested in promoting intellectual property, and not because they want to remove linux from the desktop. Also, I agree with you that using normal people's logic, you aren't circumventing anything, but the RIAA's logic would be that you would be capable of doing so, so they would want to illegalize that capability; Since the US has a reason to cooperate with the RIAA in defending copyrights, they would likely see things through the RIAA's logic.

It isn't about removing Linux from the desktop, but it's a likely afterthought once it gets passed and time goes on a bit. The RIAA would be annoyed with how some people don't have DRM on their Linux, and even if DRM was made for Linux, the RIAA wouldn't like it because being an open source implementation, someone could modify the code so they can read media protected by DRM without authorization; the RIAA would decide "there should be a law against that" and get their lawyers on it to eliminate people's means of doing it.

(then if an open source DRM isn't made, people would be unable to access DRM protected media on their linux box, which would also suck, and the only choice people would have for accessing DRM protected media on Linux would be if a closed-source DRM were released for Linux and other UNIX systems; rather Microsoft would be willing to do that for us is debateable, and I can see ulterior motive not to considering that as a company who makes alot of money selling Windows, they would want to protect their monopoly and aquire more and more and more wealth)

Granted, that might not necessarily technologically stop people from using Linux anyways, but the thing is, anyone who does could be arrested at any time in that event, so I see a reason to be concerned for Linux's legal status given this treaty is agreed upon.

phrostbyte
April 2nd, 2010, 05:30 AM
Forget flat out copyright infringement: Linux and FOSS do irate the copyright cartel in it's own right. For example, Indonesia was recommended to be added to some piracy watch list because the government recommended the use of open source software.

Really to the copyright cartel, "free culture" is just about as bad, or even worse then piracy. Doesn't matter if it's legal, they will try to make it illegal if it gets too popular.

pyritu
April 2nd, 2010, 06:07 AM
There is a forum dedicated to spreading the word and stopping this: stopacta.org

Frak
April 2nd, 2010, 06:09 AM
http://www.eff.org/issues/acta

chappajar
April 2nd, 2010, 06:43 AM
http://www.eff.org/issues/acta

Looks like the EFF haven't updated that page since the full ACTA leak a couple of weeks ago?

Besides making DRM illegal to circumvent, one of the other major worries is the introduction of secondary liability for any party who's services are used by you to infringe on copyright.
Obviously the main targets are sharing sites and BT trackers, but this seems like it would also potentially include the makers of P2P sharing software (!) and even search engines like Google, Yahoo, Bing, etc...

Also, see article 2.5 of the full leak for one of the most super extreme proposals: rights holders will be able to apply for injunctions to prevent imminent infringement. In other words, infringement that you haven't yet committed, but that they think you will!
(Tom Cruise will swoop down with his jetpack and hit you with his sick stick...)

Naggobot
April 2nd, 2010, 08:48 AM
In Finland it is already illegal to circumvent CSS protection of DVD. More importantly it is illegal to discuss or disclose information on how to circumvent the copy protection.

Finnish wikipedia article of the law
http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_Karpela

Activists tested the law in courts by writing a decryption program for Linux, distributing it in internet for 0.05 and then turned them selves in. Courts found them quilty of not only to circumventing the copy protection but also distributing of the information.
(Text of the middle court decision, high court did not give appeal permission)
http://www.oikeus.fi/tulostus/44927.htm

Now it should be clear that ACTA will bring at least these laws to every one and every one should consider if it is a limitation to the freedom of speech if you can not speak at all on some matters? Which is more valuable, freedom of speech or the freedom of multinational corporations to make higher profits?

With ACTA the system we have won't probably be enough. I am afraid that ACTA will bring us surveillance to enforce the above law.

Now I guess that some reading this will think that "what do I care if some tyranny in a far a away place has stupid laws". For your information Finland is a member of EU, belongs to Euro zone, has a democratically selected parliament and has very strong parlamentarism with only superficial power for the democratically selected president. If aforementioned laws can be passed here and they can be justified with implementation of European directives (2001/29/EY) then what laws can be passed with the justification of ACTA.

Now those of you living in Europe may wonder that why above laws were not passed for you based on the same directive? I admit so do we in Finland. Might it be so that the directive was used as a tool to pass legislation which was lobbied by copyright organizations and corporations?

About

For example, Indonesia was recommended to be added to some piracy watch list because the government recommended the use of open source software.For those of you doubting the validity of previous claim, reference can be found from
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/feb/23/opensource-intellectual-property

ubunterooster
April 2nd, 2010, 02:12 PM
This will not affect Linux. Really.
This WILL affect FOSS. Really. :(

@chappajar: +1 sick stick :(

Mykk
April 6th, 2010, 02:34 PM
Everybody, quick!

Download as much as you can now, before its too late - Zombieland DVD rip is on the way :)

Shpongle
April 9th, 2010, 01:36 PM
its already started

http://topnews.us/content/215920-digital-economy-bill-passed-mps
http://torrentfreak.com/digital-economy-bill-passes-file-sharing-end-soon-100608/

Directive 4
April 9th, 2010, 01:51 PM
49310 83597 02850 19002 75777 67239 07649 57284 90777 21502 08632 08075 01840 97926 27885 09765 88645 57802 01366 00732 86795 44734 11283 17353 67831 20155 75359 81978 54505 48115 71939 34587 73300 38009 93261 95058 76452 50238 20408 11018 98850 42615 17657 99417 04250 88903 70291 19015 87003 04794 32826 07382 14695 41570 33022 79875 57681 89560 16240 30064 11151 69008 72879 83819 42582 71674 56477 48166 84347 92846 45809 29131 53186 00700 10043 35318 93631 93439 12948 60445 03709 91980 04770 94629 21558 18071 11691 53031 87628 84778 78354 15759 32891 09329 54473 50881 88246 54950 60005 01900 62747 05305 38116 42782 94267 47485 34965 25745 36815 11706 55028 19055 52656 22135 31463 10421 00866 28679 71144 46706 36692 19825 86158 11125 15556 50481 34207 68673 23407 65505 48591 08269 56266 69306 62367 99702 10481 23965 62518 00681 83236 53959 34839 56753 57557 53246 19023 48106 47009 87753 02795 61868 92925 38069 33052 04238 14996 99454 56945 77413 83356 89906 00587 08321 81270 48611 33682 02651 59051 66351 87402 90181 97693 93767 78529 28722 10955 04129 25792 57381 86605 84501 50552 50274 99477 18831 29310 45769 80909 15304 61335 94190 30258 81320 59322 77444 38525 50466 77902 45186 97062 62778 88919 79580 42306 57506 15669 83469 56177 97879 65920 16440 51939 96071 69811 12615 19561 02762 83233 98257 91423 32172 69614 43744 38105 64855 29348 87634 92103 09887 02878 74532 33132 53212 26786 33283 70279 25099 74996 94887 75936 91591 76445 88032 71838 47402 35933 02037 48885 06755 70658 79194 61134 19323 07814 85443 64543 75113 20709 86063 90746 41756 41216 35042 38800 29678 08558 67037 03875 09410 76982 11837 65499 20520 43682 55854 64228 85024 29963 32268 53691 24648 55000 75591 66402 47292 40716 45072 53196 74499 95294 48434 74190 21077 29606 82055 81309 23626 83798 79519 66199 79828 55258 87161 09613 65617 80745 66159 24886 60889 81645 68541 72136 29208 46656 27913 14784 66791 55096 51543 10113 53858 62081 96875 83688 35955 77893 91454 53935 68199 60988 08540 47659 07358 97289 89834 25047 12891 84162 65878 96821 85380 87956 27903 99786 29449 39760 54675 34821 25675 01215 17082 73710 76462 70712 46753 21024 83678 15940 00875 05452 54353 7



if you read this in finland, your breakin the law....

bad boy's, bad boy's, what ya goin do, what ya goin do when they come for you:guitar:

ubunterooster
April 9th, 2010, 02:04 PM
Mr. Smith begins to further his rule in Finland now. :-(

IM(not so)HO: Hackers are a blessing. [Crackers and Scriptkiddies are not.] Stopping Hackers will strengthen Crrackers and Script-Kiddies.


Linux has crashed.
Press ctrl-alt-del to reboot.

Doctor Mike
April 9th, 2010, 02:37 PM
49310 83597 02850 19002 75777 67239 07649 57284 90777 21502 08632 08075 01840 97926 27885 09765 88645 57802 01366 00732 86795 44734 11283 17353 67831 20155 75359 81978 54505 48115 71939 34587 73300 38009 93261 95058 76452 50238 20408 11018 98850 42615 17657 99417 04250 88903 70291 19015 87003 04794 32826 07382 14695 41570 33022 79875 57681 89560 16240 30064 11151 69008 72879 83819 42582 71674 56477 48166 84347 92846 45809 29131 53186 00700 10043 35318 93631 93439 12948 60445 03709 91980 04770 94629 21558 18071 11691 53031 87628 84778 78354 15759 32891 09329 54473 50881 88246 54950 60005 01900 62747 05305 38116 42782 94267 47485 34965 25745 36815 11706 55028 19055 52656 22135 31463 10421 00866 28679 71144 46706 36692 19825 86158 11125 15556 50481 34207 68673 23407 65505 48591 08269 56266 69306 62367 99702 10481 23965 62518 00681 83236 53959 34839 56753 57557 53246 19023 48106 47009 87753 02795 61868 92925 38069 33052 04238 14996 99454 56945 77413 83356 89906 00587 08321 81270 48611 33682 02651 59051 66351 87402 90181 97693 93767 78529 28722 10955 04129 25792 57381 86605 84501 50552 50274 99477 18831 29310 45769 80909 15304 61335 94190 30258 81320 59322 77444 38525 50466 77902 45186 97062 62778 88919 79580 42306 57506 15669 83469 56177 97879 65920 16440 51939 96071 69811 12615 19561 02762 83233 98257 91423 32172 69614 43744 38105 64855 29348 87634 92103 09887 02878 74532 33132 53212 26786 33283 70279 25099 74996 94887 75936 91591 76445 88032 71838 47402 35933 02037 48885 06755 70658 79194 61134 19323 07814 85443 64543 75113 20709 86063 90746 41756 41216 35042 38800 29678 08558 67037 03875 09410 76982 11837 65499 20520 43682 55854 64228 85024 29963 32268 53691 24648 55000 75591 66402 47292 40716 45072 53196 74499 95294 48434 74190 21077 29606 82055 81309 23626 83798 79519 66199 79828 55258 87161 09613 65617 80745 66159 24886 60889 81645 68541 72136 29208 46656 27913 14784 66791 55096 51543 10113 53858 62081 96875 83688 35955 77893 91454 53935 68199 60988 08540 47659 07358 97289 89834 25047 12891 84162 65878 96821 85380 87956 27903 99786 29449 39760 54675 34821 25675 01215 17082 73710 76462 70712 46753 21024 83678 15940 00875 05452 54353 7



if you read this in finland, your breakin the law....

bad boy's, bad boy's, what ya goin do, what ya goin do when they come for you:guitar:MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...

The first illegal executable prime number

This 1811 digit prime number (discovered by Phil Carmody) can represent a non-compressed x86 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86) Linux executable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executable_and_Linkable_Format) (according to a comment on the discussion page - ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, corrupted section header size) that performs the same task as the compressed program not listed here:


DVD...

Directive 4
April 9th, 2010, 02:49 PM
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...

The first illegal executable prime number




ACTA, goofy drats illegal numbers!

mr,man, numbers arn't illegal!

ACTA, They are now!

Doctor Mike
April 9th, 2010, 03:14 PM
ACTA, goofy drats illegal numbers!

mr,man, numbers arn't illegal!

ACTA, They are now!
It's also illegal in the US, and more I don't know, but just encrypt it using a custom prime...

mcoleman44
April 9th, 2010, 03:19 PM
Im confused, what is illegal in the US?

chappajar
April 9th, 2010, 03:23 PM
its already started

http://topnews.us/content/215920-digital-economy-bill-passed-mps
http://torrentfreak.com/digital-economy-bill-passes-file-sharing-end-soon-100608/

Yeah, crazy.
Any guesses on how many more pounds this will put in the recording industry's pocket? I'd say about 0...


Im confused, what is illegal in the US?

Breaking DRM, thanks to the DCMA.

Doctor Mike
April 9th, 2010, 03:25 PM
Im confused, what is illegal in the US?Post 120 and post 122.

ubunterooster
April 9th, 2010, 03:26 PM
Im confused, what is illegal in the US?
The number!

mcoleman44
April 9th, 2010, 03:34 PM
Ok, but what about the number?

Doctor Mike
April 9th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Ok, but what about the number?see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime

mcoleman44
April 9th, 2010, 04:25 PM
WHat the hell? This
saddens me.

sydbat
April 9th, 2010, 04:39 PM
Im confused, what is illegal in the US?


The number!


Ok, but what about the number?


see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_primeWOW! What becomes illegal in the US next? Breathing? "I'm sorry, but we have made breathing of your own accord illegal and if you do not cease and desist, we will sue you and/or throw you in jail".

I mean, how do you make a number (or numbers apparently) illegal? Might as well make the alphabet illegal too. And don't forget all the characters like !&*$%#@ etc. Can't wait for the thought police to show up at my door...

spoons
April 9th, 2010, 04:43 PM
"Evil only wins when good people do nothing."

I can't exactly remember who said that, but still.

c00lwaterz
April 9th, 2010, 04:44 PM
so acta is for commercial copies right? but in open source as far as I know that we only use it for free (no counterfeit).

it might affect the movies and torrent sites??

ubunterooster
April 9th, 2010, 05:25 PM
※Copyright!※
Dr. can patent your genes w/o your permission, so they *should* be able to copyright *everything*.

Clonezilla copies DRM fine! Bwawawawahahahahahahahahahaha!

Dustin2128
April 12th, 2010, 12:13 AM
I'm making a CD/DVD archive of all linux distros just in case... (seriously). I wonder what the sentance is for
49310 83597 02850 19002 75777 67239 07649 57284 90777 21502 08632 08075 01840 97926 27885 09765 88645 57802 01366 00732 86795 44734 11283 17353 67831 20155 75359 81978 54505 48115 71939 34587 73300 38009 93261 95058 76452 50238 20408 11018 98850 42615 17657 99417 04250 88903 70291 19015 87003 04794 32826 07382 14695 41570 33022 79875 57681 89560 16240 30064 11151 69008 72879 83819 42582 71674 56477 48166 84347 92846 45809 29131 53186 00700 10043 35318 93631 93439 12948 60445 03709 91980 04770 94629 21558 18071 11691 53031 87628 84778 78354 15759 32891 09329 54473 50881 88246 54950 60005 01900 62747 05305 38116 42782 94267 47485 34965 25745 36815 11706 55028 19055 52656 22135 31463 10421 00866 28679 71144 46706 36692 19825 86158 11125 15556 50481 34207 68673 23407 65505 48591 08269 56266 69306 62367 99702 10481 23965 62518 00681 83236 53959 34839 56753 57557 53246 19023 48106 47009 87753 02795 61868 92925 38069 33052 04238 14996 99454 56945 77413 83356 89906 00587 08321 81270 48611 33682 02651 59051 66351 87402 90181 97693 93767 78529 28722 10955 04129 25792 57381 86605 84501 50552 50274 99477 18831 29310 45769 80909 15304 61335 94190 30258 81320 59322 77444 38525 50466 77902 45186 97062 62778 88919 79580 42306 57506 15669 83469 56177 97879 65920 16440 51939 96071 69811 12615 19561 02762 83233 98257 91423 32172 69614 43744 38105 64855 29348 87634 92103 09887 02878 74532 33132 53212 26786 33283 70279 25099 74996 94887 75936 91591 76445 88032 71838 47402 35933 02037 48885 06755 70658 79194 61134 19323 07814 85443 64543 75113 20709 86063 90746 41756 41216 35042 38800 29678 08558 67037 03875 09410 76982 11837 65499 20520 43682 55854 64228 85024 29963 32268 53691 24648 55000 75591 66402 47292 40716 45072 53196 74499 95294 48434 74190 21077 29606 82055 81309 23626 83798 79519 66199 79828 55258 87161 09613 65617 80745 66159 24886 60889 81645 68541 72136 29208 46656 27913 14784 66791 55096 51543 10113 53858 62081 96875 83688 35955 77893 91454 53935 68199 60988 08540 47659 07358 97289 89834 25047 12891 84162 65878 96821 85380 87956 27903 99786 29449 39760 54675 34821 25675 01215 17082 73710 76462 70712 46753 21024 83678 15940 00875 05452 54353 7
Half tempted to turn myself in just to see :lolflag:

J V
April 12th, 2010, 12:58 AM
Eventually someone generates a prime containing the source code to windows and of course, who has the most prime generators? Linux users :)

Naggobot
April 22nd, 2010, 05:43 AM
Those of you who have followed the ACTA process may have noticed that the draft text of the agreement was released yesterday. Analysis of the text can be found from Ars Technica. (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/04/acta-is-here.ars)

A quick read in to the analysis pops out


making it illegal to bypass DRM locks.Those of you who might not know what this means I would like to clarify that it means no watching your store bought DVD:s with Linux. Of course now the normal reaction is "who cares I use only torrents" but it should be noted that

(1)

ISP immunity is conditioned on the existence of "takedown" process. In the US, this is the (in)famous "DMCA takedown" dance and

(2)

Countries will be allowed to force ISPs to "terminate or prevent an infringement" and they can pass laws "governing the removal or disabling of access to information. So, basically, Internet disconnection and website blocking.and

(3)

The option also allows rightsholders to "expeditiously obtain from that provider information on the identity of the relevant subscriber" andand

(4)

criminal penalties against "willful copyright infringement" when done "on a commercial scale." ... the draft shows that this may apply to infringements "that have no direct or indirect motivation of financial gain." I.E. P2P may be one of those things that go away along with ACTA treaty. I do not use torrents my self but I still am against these measures. In U.S the DMCA take down notice procedure has been used as a tool for censorship (http://xercestech.com/microsoft-document-leak.geek)when unfavourable information has been leaked to the internet. Every document automatically has a copyright and under DMCA ISP:s are required to close the infringing site no matter what the document contents are.

Now if you think that this does not matter consider Wikileaks, youtube and recent video where US forces acted in Irak against Reuters employees. Easiest way to censor such material is to use DMCA takedown notice.

I personally am also not thrilled of the idea (3) that copyright holders have access to my personal information with out court order.

Unfortunately ACTA seems to be


Just another matter too complex to care aboutand there fore there is no public outcry on the subject. So far in Finland this matter stays well below the radar of commercial news sources. Even though the draft document was released yesterday there was not a single reference to the subject on the largest news paper of the country.

mcoleman44
April 22nd, 2010, 06:18 AM
My biggest problem is there are only a handful of people that even know what is going on. Which in turn means know one to fight against such a treaty.

It truly sickens me that our government can do this.
But I personally don't think it will matter, because there is always a way of getting around something such as this. ( Legality may be questionable though) ;)

mihai007
April 28th, 2010, 03:43 PM
Ok, I know this is quite bad but... in the end people vote with their wallets. If you do not buy drm content, do not use it in linux all those laws are useless, and can't touch you by using linux.
Start buying/listening music from other sources, like MagnaTune. The movies will be a problem, but if we encourage the use of non drm schemes and vote with our wallets on non drm content, we will start to see more and more good quality non-drm content available.

I just brought an rock album from MagnaTune and the quality is fantastic, way better than many groups that signed contracts with sony, etc. The music store is available right in Rhythmbox, Amarok...

I will definitely not encourage the use of ubuntu music store because I know who is behind it (indirectly - yes, the very ones that do want acta/riaa/etc), from who the music is coming from.

quequotion
May 31st, 2010, 11:38 AM
This could be the final triumph of the open source community.

Legal and political action will fail. Just forget about it. Japan will pass this without question; the US will pressure the UK into passing it; the EU, Australia, and NZ won't oppose the UK. The rest of the world is a wildcard but don't bet on your voice having any effect on the governments of our time.

What works? Money. Stop spending it.

Never buy a computer with Windows or Mac OS again. Tell everyone you know to do the same. Piracy is getting risky, so stop if you can; encourage your favorite artists (directors, musicians, writers) to use alternative licensing (creative commons) and free themselves from indentured servitude (recording contracts). There are many doing it now and making money. There are popular bands who might just go for it (Beck? Radiohead?).

When the piles of your cash stop rolling in, then your voice might have a chance.

Jakiejake
May 31st, 2010, 12:19 PM
I remember seeing a video about it on this forum months ago. I was reading up on some tech news, and I watched a cnet video about it. The more I hear about this ACTA treaty, the more scared I feel. The thought of having no privacy online, and getting devices like an iPod or MP3 player confiscated because of content (such as copied CDs) is scary.

I'm sorry if there's a topic about it here, but I thought I'd make this topic here. I'm not a fan of these kind of topics, but I just thought it might make good to talk about with other computer users.

Do we really have to worry and be paranoid? What's some advice and how do you feel about this. It has me worried since I don't use the net for illegal downloading.

What Is ACTA?

Jakiejake
May 31st, 2010, 12:20 PM
This could be the final triumph of the open source community.

Legal and political action will fail. Just forget about it. Japan will pass this without question; the US will pressure the UK into passing it; the EU, Australia, and NZ won't oppose the UK. The rest of the world is a wildcard but don't bet on your voice having any effect on the governments of our time.

What works? Money. Stop spending it.

Never buy a computer with Windows or Mac OS again. Tell everyone you know to do the same. Piracy is getting risky, so stop if you can; encourage your favorite artists (directors, musicians, writers) to use alternative licensing (creative commons) and free themselves from indentured servitude (recording contracts). There are many doing it now and making money. There are popular bands who might just go for it (Beck? Radiohead?).

When the piles of your cash stop rolling in, then your voice might have a chance.

OMG SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS MY PAIN! :guitar:

bigseb
May 31st, 2010, 02:12 PM
We already have something like this here in SA. link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RICA

It stinks, I hate it, but can you do?

quequotion
June 3rd, 2010, 01:46 PM
OMG SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS MY PAIN! :guitar:

http://www.evilbastard.net/bastardblog/Sybok.jpg
Share your pain with me, and gain strength from the sharing.

/unrelated geekery

But seriously, the pendulum is swinging against open, unsecured internet practices and toward 1984. Perhaps it will swing the other way later, but that doesn't really matter.

If the treaty actually gets signed, we'll have a golden opportunity to promote open source, open license, free content to the unsatisfied masses; all the while undermining those mega-corporations who lobbied for such a treaty.

Naggobot
June 25th, 2010, 06:48 AM
From the pages of American University Washington College of Law a short summary of effects and meanings of ACTA can be found

http://www.wcl.american.edu/pijip/go/acta-communique

Headline is


International Experts Find that Pending Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement Threatens Public InterestsMain points of the text in my opinion


We find that the terms of the publicly released draft of ACTA threaten numerous public interests, including every concern specifically disclaimed by negotiators: Negotiators claim ACTA will not interfere with citizens' fundamental rights and liberties; it will.and


ACTA would: Globalize 'anti-circumvention' provisions which threaten innovation, competition, free (freedom-respecting) software, open access business models, interoperability, the enjoyment of user rights, and user choice;
and


ACTA would: Encourage internet service providers to police the activities of internet usersThose of you who live in US have a possibility to participate to Action alert by PK

http://www.publicknowledge.org/action/whitehouse_acta

-----
Above was collected through this (http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/06/23/2241204/Experts-Say-ACTA-Threatens-Public-Interest?art_pos=30) Slahdot sinppet.

Tech2077
June 30th, 2010, 08:51 PM
Even though it is not likely to pass through, the results would be a firestorm of attacks on nearly every organization that supported this, as well as a number of other things that would likely make it be broken even after it was made. *Imagines Richard Stallman with two katakas*. but on a more serious note, with enough effort, and petitions it would be stopped. It's best to prevent that struggle to cure.

Moozillaaa
June 30th, 2010, 09:14 PM
I remember seeing a video about it on this forum months ago. I was reading up on some tech news, and I watched a cnet video about it. The more I hear about this ACTA treaty, the more scared I feel. The thought of having no privacy online, and getting devices like an iPod or MP3 player confiscated because of content (such as copied CDs) is scary.

I'm sorry if there's a topic about it here, but I thought I'd make this topic here. I'm not a fan of these kind of topics, but I just thought it might make good to talk about with other computer users.

Do we really have to worry and be paranoid? What's some advice and how do you feel about this. It has me worried since I don't use the net for illegal downloading.

Yeah - sort of. It's another part of implementation of global governance.

And I put $5 on it abridges the US Constitution. Hint: one word in the title is a giveaway - 'agreement'.

They used to be called 'Treaties' - like SEATO, NATO, etc. There's a framework for formation of treaties in the Constitution. But one provision for that formation is that each state has a vote on acceptance of the treaty.

'Agreements' take away the right of the states to vote, and give the US as a whole 1 vote. Just like NAFTA, GATT, CAFTA, FTAA, WTA.

Treaties are a thing of the past. As will be the Constitution in a generation or so...

spoons
June 30th, 2010, 09:39 PM
Make a Facebook group or something? What are you lot doing about this?

Moozillaaa
June 30th, 2010, 10:04 PM
If I remove windows from my computer, I'm not "circumventing" anything.

Irrespective of whether anyone likes it or not, one of the major exports of the U.S. is intellectual property, whether that takes the form of computer programs or music or movies. As such, the U.S. has a significant economic interest in seeing to it that the rest of the world pays to receive the intellectual property made here. For instance, the movie "Avatar" has made >$2 billion world-wide; only $700 mill. of that came from the U.S. We don't manufacture goods here any more, we make ideas and entertainment. The rest of the world pays us for that. As such, the U.S. has a vested interest in protecting intellectual property.

There is also a real national security issue. It is illegal to export technologies which utilize 128 bit (or better) encryption from the U.S. The reason for that is simple; the U.S. needs to, and does, electronically eavesdrop on suspected terrorists and/or other perceived enemies. The better the encryption technology, the harder it is to find out what the bad guys are planning. If the encryption technology is available for free download, it's hard to control who ends up having it.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT KEEPING LINUX OFF THE DESKTOP.

SRSLY.

Enemies of the US? Who do you consider this to be?

There's a reason that the term 'enemies foreign and domestic' appears in the Declaration of Independence.

Know from where Rome fell? WITHIN.

I venture that NO forum member fears an attack from another nation, in the course of each day. I venture further that EVERY forum member here DOES fear an attack on his/her privacy/freedom each day.



... What are you lot doing about this?
Most are probably shutting the FF window, and taking TOTAL CONTROL of the joystick.

Moozillaaa
June 30th, 2010, 10:28 PM
WOW! What becomes illegal in the US next? Breathing? "I'm sorry, but we have made breathing of your own accord illegal and if you do not cease and desist, we will sue you and/or throw you in jail".

I mean, how do you make a number (or numbers apparently) illegal? Might as well make the alphabet illegal too. And don't forget all the characters like !&*$%#@ etc. Can't wait for the thought police to show up at my door...

Breathing illegal? Well, yes, in a sort, and in time: regulated, as in Carbon Tax...

donkyhotay
June 30th, 2010, 10:47 PM
Enemies of the US? Who do you consider this to be?

There's a reason that the term 'enemies foreign and domestic' appears in the Declaration of Independence.

Know from where Rome fell? WITHIN.


Of course, many of the founding fathers recognized the possibility that we might elect a new king. They had just been through a nasty little war to get rid of one king already and (most of them) wanted to prevent that. Thats why the USA has the 3 branches of government, to try and seperate out the power as much as possible and prevent someone (president, senator, congressman) from obtaining "temporary emergency powers" that are never disbanded (I'll make no comment on politicians who may have attempted/done this despite the constitution).

Chame_Wizard
June 30th, 2010, 11:56 PM
the ACTA makes everybody criminals.

Frak
July 1st, 2010, 12:15 AM
the ACTA makes everybody criminals.
Except me, because I'm perfect.