New Amiga announced

[Swagman]

Yup

For those old Amigans that might be interested.....



It's almost 25 years since Commodore released the A1000 model that launched the line in the summer of 1985, and with the launch of the X1000 we will usher in a new beginning for the AmigaOS platform. Just as Commodore did with the A1000, we're aiming at the high-end first, with a powerful desktop computer aimed at the professional and serious hobbyist markets (although you won't have to wait until summer, and it should be a little cheaper!) The launch of the A1000 offered something new, and the X1000 will do the same. The world has moved on and custom chips no longer make much sense, but the X1000 offers a customisable chip as standard instead - 'Xena'.

http://www.a-eon.com/6.html

[forrestcupp]

Awesome. The Amiga was definitely a pioneer. But in this day and age, I wonder how many people will actually buy one.

[ade234uk]

I would definately buy one. As long as the new amiga works with Wine thats all I want. The thing that got me to finally use Ubuntu at home was the fact I could run Dreameaver 9 and Photoshop 7 though wine.

[Psumi]

Another source: http://www.osnews.com/story/22693/New_Amiga_Sports_Programmable_Co-Processor_Dualcore_PPC

Gogogogo Amiga! (Oh wait, it's PowerPC Arch, go figure.)

[DeadSuperHero]

Aaand now I know where my next paycheck is going.

Food? Who needs it, I want an Amiga!

[yester64]

Mm.. i am little skeptical. There were so many new amiga's promised, but they never came or the companies went out of business.
The crucial part is the software. What elevated the Amiga some 20 years ago, was the sheer amount of games and serious software that was available.
With those days gone, i would assume that only hardcore users will buy one.
It would be nice to see the real thing. So far there are only words. If they post some pictures of the actual machine...mmm....

[pgp_protector]

Ah the Amiga.
I remember them, I had an Amiga 500 & Amiga 4000

For the time they were quite advance, with their Graphics, Video, Multitasking ect.

But I don't see them making a comeback now.

[blueshiftoverwatch]

So, is it going to use x86_64 or a different architecture altogether?

[mips]

so, is it going to use x86_64 or a different architecture altogether?

ppc

[DeadSuperHero]

So, is it going to use x86_64 or a different architecture altogether?

Another thing to note is that it seems to use a significantly different approach to hardware than your standard X86_X64 machine.

Specs:

ATX Formfactor
* Dual-core PowerISA™ v2.04+ CPU
* "Xena" XMOS XS1-L1 128 SDS
* 7.1 channel HD audio
* 4x DDR2 RAM slots
* 10x USB 2.0
* 1x Gigabit Ethernet
* 2x PCIe x16 slots (1x16 or 2x8)
* 2x PCIe x1 slots
* 1x Xorro slot
* 2x PCI legacy slots
* 2x RS232
* 4x SATA 2 connectors
* 1x IDE connector
* JTAG connector
* 1x Compact Flash


Quite a lot of hardware bits that I've never heard of before. Xorro? Xena? From some of the YouTube demonstrations of these pieces of kit, I'd say it'd be an interesting investment.

[Nerd King]

I would definately buy one. As long as the new amiga works with Wine thats all I want. The thing that got me to finally use Ubuntu at home was the fact I could run Dreameaver 9 and Photoshop 7 though wine.
Wine requires an x86 or x64 processor so you're out of luck there I'm afraid.

[Psumi]

Wine requires an x86 or x64 processor so you're out of luck there I'm afraid.

No, WINE is not compatible with x64. WINE still is an x86 program in x64.

[insane_alien]

its not an x64 program, but you can still run it on an x64 CPU and OS. thats what he was meaning.

like the sound of this XENA thing though.,

[speedwell68]

The big question is how much? I likes niche computing, that is why I run desktop Linux. But Linux represents niche computing on bog standard and affordable hardware. When the A1000 and A500 came out they were a fraction of the price of a IBM clone, that made them popular. If this is too heavily priced I can't see it succeeding.

[Nerd King]

its not an x64 program, but you can still run it on an x64 CPU and OS. thats what he was meaning.

like the sound of this XENA thing though.,
What he said.

[ugm6hr]

Ah the Amiga.
I remember them, I had an Amiga 500 & Amiga 4000

Me too. And a CD32 in between :)

But now I think I'll stick with FOSS Linux...

[NoaHall]

Erm.. a x86 program won't run on a pure x64(IA-64) processor. It will only work on x86_64(or known as amd64). Of course, you can compile it yourself if you need to.

[CJ Master]

Er, isn't Amiga OS over 20 years old? Why would anyone want to use that?

[yester64]

Another thing to note is that it seems to use a significantly different approach to hardware than your standard X86_X64 machine.

Specs:

ATX Formfactor
* Dual-core PowerISA™ v2.04+ CPU
* "Xena" XMOS XS1-L1 128 SDS
* 7.1 channel HD audio
* 4x DDR2 RAM slots
* 10x USB 2.0
* 1x Gigabit Ethernet
* 2x PCIe x16 slots (1x16 or 2x8)
* 2x PCIe x1 slots
* 1x Xorro slot
* 2x PCI legacy slots
* 2x RS232
* 4x SATA 2 connectors
* 1x IDE connector
* JTAG connector
* 1x Compact Flash


Quite a lot of hardware bits that I've never heard of before. Xorro? Xena? From some of the YouTube demonstrations of these pieces of kit, I'd say it'd be an interesting investment.

I think Xorro is a newer version of Zorro. Just a guess.
Have to check the youtube you refer to. On the site there was no image to see. :(

[yester64]

Er, isn't Amiga OS over 20 years old? Why would anyone want to use that?

Yes and no. It is still developed to this day. Well that was at least the case 2 years ago.
There is also a Morph version which look pretty nice, but it is not Amiga OS per se i think.

[Frak]

No, WINE is not compatible with x64. WINE still is an x86 program in x64.
Ubuntu's Wine is not x64 compatible*

[CJ Master]

Ok, I see that it's still improving. But correct me if I'm wrong, but if it can work on those old old Amiga systems then why buy one that's about as powerful as recent medium-end systems?

[NoaHall]

Ok, I see that it's still improving. But correct me if I'm wrong, but if it can work on those old old Amiga systems then why buy one that's about as powerful as recent medium-end systems?

Powerful as recent medium end? No. Powerful as recent low end/netbooks.

[Frak]

Ok, I see that it's still improving. But correct me if I'm wrong, but if it can work on those old old Amiga systems then why buy one that's about as powerful as recent medium-end systems?
PowerPCs tend to be faster than their Intel counterparts at the same clock speed.

[CJ Master]

PowerPCs tend to be faster than their Intel counterparts at the same clock speed.

Ah. I wonder why?

My question still stands, tho. :P

[Frak]

Ah. I wonder why?

RISC architecture. More work can be done per clock.

[wmcbrine]

Mm.. i am little skeptical.+1

I'll believe it when I see it. But it's amazing that people won't give up on the idea, after all these years.

[Hwæt]

So many companies have gone under trying to bring this former giant back to life. If Amiga, Inc. really cared about their product, and actually wanted to make money, then they would open source the thing, hire some full-time coders, sell support, and take donations. Really, that's a more profitable business model than people think.

[Frak]

So many companies have gone under trying to bring this former giant back to life. If Amiga, Inc. really cared about their product, and actually wanted to make money, then they would open source the thing, hire some full-time coders, sell support, and take donations. Really, that's a more profitable business model than people think.
Worked for Sun.

[Hwæt]

Worked for Sun.

Sun also made a ton of hardware that never really proved to be successful in the mainstream hardware market for a long time.

RedHat would be a much better example of how this could work, or Novell for that matter.

[Frak]

Sun also made a ton of hardware that never really proved to be successful in the mainstream hardware market for a long time.

RedHat would be a much better example of how this could work, or Novell for that matter.
/missed joke

[MrPloppy]

Er, isn't Amiga OS over 20 years old? Why would anyone want to use that?

Isn't unix 40 years old ? Why would anyone want to use that ?

Isn't linux 20 years old ? Why would anyone want to use that ?

[MrPloppy]

I would definately buy one. As long as the new amiga works with Wine thats all I want. The thing that got me to finally use Ubuntu at home was the fact I could run Dreameaver 9 and Photoshop 7 though wine.

Why on earth would you bother using Wine on an Amiga even if it was possible (which its not unless wine is ported to Amiga and you write a x86 PPC emulator) ? Everyone already has a Windows machine or (if you are fanatical enough) a Linux PC running Windows apps as Wine.

[earthpigg]

Everyone already has a Windows machine or (if you are fanatical enough) a Linux PC running Windows apps as Wine.

i have neither, and own 3 computers :P

[chillicampari]

Anyone else view the page source?

[CJ Master]

Isn't unix 40 years old ? Why would anyone want to use that ?

Isn't linux 20 years old ? Why would anyone want to use that ?

I obviously meant "updated" rather then "created," but better luck next time.

[Warpnow]

Anyone else view the page source?

...Yeah, its rather odd...so this was some kind of prank?

[CJ Master]

Anyone else view the page source?

Yes, but there's nothing interesting now, it appears they've stopped putting hints in the source.

[DeadSuperHero]

...Yeah, its rather odd...so this was some kind of prank?

Nope, they just like dropping hints in there.

It definitely looks promising, here's to hoping it goes somewhere. I've always wanted an Amiga, now would be an ideal opportunity.

That said, I'd love this even more if they would come out with an Amiga laptop.

[cascade9]

Erm.. a x86 program won't run on a pure x64(IA-64) processor. It will only work on x86_64(or known as amd64). Of course, you can compile it yourself if you need to.

Slight confusion there....I've _never_ seen IA-64 refered to as x64. IA-64 isnt even x86 compatible, so it would be silly to call it x64. x86_64, or AMD64, still gets calld x64 quite often.


The big question is how much? I likes niche computing, that is why I run desktop Linux. But Linux represents niche computing on bog standard and affordable hardware. When the A1000 and A500 came out they were a fraction of the price of a IBM clone, that made them popular. If this is too heavily priced I can't see it succeeding.

I'm guessing that they will be a bit more (10-20%) than a similar powered x86 machine. So in between, say, Dell (insert any other tier 1 manufacturer if you want) and Apple pricing.

Yeah, I know, comparing x86 (or x86_64) to PowerPC isnt a exact science.

[NoaHall]

Slight confusion there....I've _never_ seen IA-64 refered to as x64. IA-64 isnt even x86 compatible, so it would be silly to call it x64. x86_64, or AMD64, still gets calld x64 quite often.



I'm guessing that they will be a bit more (10-20%) than a similar powered x86 machine. So in between, say, Dell (insert any other tier 1 manufacturer if you want) and Apple pricing.

Yeah, I know, comparing x86 (or x86_64) to PowerPC isnt a exact science.

x64 != x86_64
In my book, anyway

[hessiess]

RISC architectures are a good thing, X86 is an outdated inefficient mess of an architecture with a ridiculous number of extensions trying to bring it up to date, but are only making the architecture even more messy.

X86 needs to go away before computing on the desktop will improve much more and start to see some innervations again. Desktop computing has bean stagnant for at least 10 years. In comparison take the mobile computing market(smartphones etc) which is not tied to a antique architecture like X86, where innervations are coming thick and fast.

[cascade9]

x64 != x86_64
In my book, anyway

So you want x64 to mean 'pure' 64 bit? LOL

The majority of computer hardware is x86, and the majority of OSes, programs and support is x86. Which is one reason why itanium flopped, and AMD64 was successful. People know about 'x86' and x64 being used as '64bit extension of x86' makes sense to me, even if x86_64 or AMD64 is more technically corrent. I dont know why itanuim should get a 'x' in front of it, seeing how it was x86 compatible.

To me, "z! = y" make no sense, it makes more sense to say 'z =/= y'. Guess we both have to face conventions we dont like, eh? ](*,):mrgreen:

[NoaHall]

So you want x64 to mean 'pure' 64 bit? LOL



Yes :) Makes sense, you see.

And the != comes from programming, PHP especially.

[cascade9]

It might make sense, it is wasnt for the 'x'. x64 implies x86 compatibility (at least to me). Better to just call it IA64, and confine the old itanium to the dustbin of compyter history (and before anyone thinks I'm that down on IA64, I'm meant to be getting one next week...I just think it was a mistake on intels part, and I bet they are sore that AMD make AMD64....and beat them to 1Ghz)

BTW, yeah, I got told that that != is from programming. I still think its a silly way to express 'not equal to', when they are more easily understood versions that dont involve hitting the 'shift' key.


RISC architectures are a good thing, X86 is an outdated inefficient mess of an architecture with a ridiculous number of extensions trying to bring it up to date, but are only making the architecture even more messy.

X86 needs to go away before computing on the desktop will improve much more and start to see some innervations again. Desktop computing has bean stagnant for at least 10 years. In comparison take the mobile computing market(smartphones etc) which is not tied to a antique architecture like X86, where innervations are coming thick and fast.

x86 isnt going away any time soon...but when it does, it wont matter than much, virtually every current x86 CPU is just dirty old x86 instructions wrapped around a RISC core. The changover will be harder from the software point of view than hardware.

[Sven6210]

I never had an Amiga - but I always wanted to have one. I still remember how I wrote the first Basic program with my Commodore C64. And how I played Winter Games, Bruce Lee and Maniac Mansion. I liked those days.

But do I want them back? I do not think so. I moved on in my life and so did my environment. So why would I want an Amiga today? If it is based on a new hardware platform it's not an Amiga any more. If you are looking for an Amiga experience then get one - an original 20 years old Amiga. I am sure there are still thousands around, in the attics, the basements or the car park. And probably covered with a centimeter of dust. If you want to be authentic find one of them and get them to work. Feel the real Amiga experience.

Just printing Commodore on a PC does not make it anything special. And some already tried in the last couple of years.

[Daisuke_Aramaki]

What's with the Solved tag by the way?

[Swagman]

My post about CISC & RISC appears to have been deleted ?

Oh well, others have said what I was getting at.

Anyway... Why the [SOLVED] tag ?

The whole announcement was wrapped up in a little puzzle Amigans had to try and decipher.

THIS THREAD (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=30351&forum=2&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0) is how it all emerged.

Why the Riddle ?

Hyperions tag line is Remember when computing was fun

So they put some fun into the announcement.

Pretty kewl imho

[Daisuke_Aramaki]

Anyway... Why the [SOLVED] tag ?

The whole announcement was wrapped up in a little puzzle Amigans had to try and decipher.

Thanks for pointing that out. Cool indeed.

[Swagman]

Oh.. I should mention...

The whole shooting match got started when Hyperion (The company that owns AmigaOs4) posted a screenshot of Firefox being ported to Os4. In the addressbar was a url to a mysterious aeon.

And away we went !!

Oh.. and about the the reference to MAP. MAP is an acronym meaning Most Ambitious Project (or we think it does atm!!)

[mickie.kext]

Nice to see new Amiga. It would be nice if that Xena chip is actually cell. I always thought Cell BE would be awesome co-processor


Worked for Sun.

Umm... I know it is a joke, but I have problem with jokes like that because people try to use Sun as an example how open source do not work. Well that is wrong, because Sun is actually example how open source saves companies who embrace it. After dot com buble busted, Sun was in death spiral. Open source strategy really saved Sun from failing as hard as Amiga did. If it did not worked, Oracle would not spend 7 billion to buy Sun. If Sun only started open sourcing earlier, it maybe would be shinning now like it did during dot-com bubble.

[insane_alien]

Nice to see new Amiga. It would be nice if that Xena chip is actually cell. I always thought Cell BE would be awesome co-processor


nah, you want dual cells for the main procesor(s) with the XENA chip as a co-processor. Cells for power XENA for hardware reconfiguring.

if i'm understanding the specs right, the XENA chip with the appropriate configuration, should be able to implement x86 instructions? i doubt it would be blazing fast or anything but maybe equivalent to something like a PIII?

[mickie.kext]

nah, you want dual cells for the main procesor(s) with the XENA chip as a co-processor. Cells for power XENA for hardware reconfiguring.

if i'm understanding the specs right, the XENA chip with the appropriate configuration, should be able to implement x86 instructions? i doubt it would be blazing fast or anything but maybe equivalent to something like a PIII?

I later saw that Xena is some XCore ISA, not Cell. But Xoro slot can house Cell BE add-on card, so I will keep dreaming:D.

Dual core Power ISA 2.04 processor can be either PWRficient (P.A. Semi) or Titan (AMCC). Given that crApple snagged P.A. Semi and killed off PWRficient, Titan is only choice.

[Frak]

If Sun only started open sourcing earlier, it maybe would be shinning now like it did during dot-com bubble.

Sun failed because they thought a million-man army would come out of nowhere and improve their products. Well, they never shown up. Open Sourcing MySQL had a lot to do with their success. Everything else was minor. Oracle bought them to either:
a. Get rid of a competitor, and/or
b. Sun had some interesting tech, that Oracle wanted, and since Sun was flying down the shooter month by month with terrible profit figures, Oracle bought Sun for chump change.

[mickie.kext]

Sun failed because they thought a million-man army would come out of nowhere and improve their products. Well, they never shown up. You do not get million-man army if you want copyright assignment from contributors and if you want to own code. That is why FSF projects do not progress as quickly as Linux kernel does, and that is why Sun did not accelerated development as much as they hoped when they opened up their stuff. They did not build a community, and that is one more reason why Sun can not be taken as an example how open source do or do not work for big corporations. Sun was loosing more before open sourcing.

If Sun didn't open source anything, it would end up like Amiga.

If Sun waited a bit more with open sourcing, they would have eventually ended up like SGI, got bought for under 500 million by some anonymous company (like Rackable) which is only interested in their good name. Oracle buyout is actually a win for Sun.

Red Hat on the other hand would be good example how open source works, they do not ask for copyright assignment and community works for them very well. Despite the writings on your signature.


Open Sourcing MySQL had a lot to do with their success.
Come again? You say Sun open sourced MySQL? I hope it is a typo. Sun bought MySQL AB in 2008, and MySQL was open source from day one.

[Hwæt]

b. Sun had some interesting tech, that Oracle wanted, and since Sun was flying down the shooter month by month with terrible profit figures, Oracle bought Sun for chump change.

To be honest, I don't really think Oracle getting a hold of Sun's products is going to do anything for the products themselves. Oracle is a big and powerful company, but it has absolutely zero motivation when it comes to anything other than their database software. :(

[Frak]

If Sun didn't open source anything, it would end up like Amiga.

Amiga lost because the Commodore big-wigs thought aggressive marketing (like the VIC-20 or C64) was a bad thing, and ended up under-promoting the product.

You have a lot to learn.


Come again? You say Sun open sourced MySQL? I hope it is a typo. Sun bought MySQL AB in 2008, and MySQL was open source from day one.

I never said *who* open sourced MySQL. I just stated that by being open source, it provided interest.


To be honest, I don't really think Oracle getting a hold of Sun's products is going to do anything for the products themselves. Oracle is a big and powerful company, but it has absolutely zero motivation when it comes to anything other than their database software. :(

Then it would be a a + b combo. They wanted MySQL, and wanted it gone at the same time.

[chillicampari]

Sun sort of tried to build an online community, at least with Star Office testing early after they bought that from Star Division (before Open Office). But I'm not really sure why it didn't work right at that time (community building during testing). I remember mostly some user to user help and submitting bug reports, but it seemed like a lot of suggested patching that worked in our company's case and might have helped others sort of went into a black hole so it ended up being a commiseration thing.

With the paid contract products they were pretty responsive, I guess since that was more of a typical support scenario, vendor/client.

[mickie.kext]

Amiga lost because the Commodore big-wigs thought aggressive marketing (like the VIC-20 or C64) was a bad thing, and ended up under-promoting the product.

You have a lot to learn.

You missed the point completely, but you did not missed chance to offend me.

I was not talking why Amiga failed (there was many reasons, not just that one you stated), I was pointing that Sun managed to stay relevant after hitting a roadblock because open source which kept Sun's business going. Amiga on other hand became irrelevant because they hit a roadblock and did not managed to stop death spiral, and only way they could stop death spiral was making themselves more visible to the global market. And only way they could do that is open sourcing their assets. Sun did it and lived long enough to get acceptable deal for its investors, Amiga did not. So, open source actually worked for Sun, just not to the extent that Jonathan Schwartz hoped to work.

[rlogan]

To me this is a great thing, more modern hardware to run with Amiga OS4.
Now people with Intel processors might look at this and start knocking but Power PC hardware is different, you can't compare apples with apples.
At the end of the day this will stay a niche market and people out there are happily modding their old school Amiga's even now and loving it. I was looking on Ebay the other day and there was an Amiga 4000 for sale, it was up to $1000 (Aussie Dollars). People will love this new machine, I just hope the price is right and many people that would love one of these can buy one. I know I certainly would love one if the price is right. It is different hardware and that is exactly why I would love one. Maybe they should try and port OS4 to a PS3 that would be interesting.
Back to topic, people on this forum like using, playing and developing Ubuntu/Linux, whereas Amigans just like another platform.