Any thought on SuSE or other distros? [Archive]

m.musashi

February 27th, 2006, 05:51 PM

I know this is the ubuntu forum but in the spirit of Linux in general I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on SuSE or other distros.

I like ubuntu a lot but cannot get it to install on a custom PC. I did get SuSE to work but I'm having a hard time making the transition. I don't like yast and I can't figure out how to get things set up. The ubuntu method doesn't work (i.e. apt-get this and dpkg that) and no automatix that I'm aware of.

Their forum is also no where near as active and helpful as this one.

If ubuntu won't work for me, any thoughts on what might? Are there other distros I should consider? I don't want a linux for hackers - I don't know that much. I just want a clean one that works without a ton of effort - something like, well...ubuntu.

Thanks.

mstlyevil

February 27th, 2006, 05:58 PM

m.musashi

February 27th, 2006, 06:26 PM

Have you tried Mepis? From what I hear it is very easy to install and comes already bundled with the codecs and proprietary software.
No I haven't. Is OSS? I seem to recall having to buy it. That is deal with SuSE too. Buy it and you get most of the multimedia functionality. The OSS version is stripped down.

Is it debian? I don't know what SuSE is but I don't think it's debian. It uses rpms. Not sure what all that means but supposedly has to do with how it works and why it's different from ubuntu.

Thanks.

BarfBag

February 27th, 2006, 06:32 PM

What exactly does Ubuntu do when you try to install it?

I agree with you. SUSE sucks. It was my first distro, and I really liked it at the time. It started going downhill with version 9.3. I went back to Windows for a little while after that. I came back to Linux sometime last year. I tried Mandriva (hated it), Slackware (liked it, but it didn't fit me), Linspire (hated it), Fedora Core (liked it, but too experimental), and the latest version of SUSE. I was about to go back to Windows, but then I found Ubuntu. I really liked it. It became my operating system of choice for months. I went to Kubuntu for a little while, but ended up switching back to Ubuntu. I still have a Windows partition floating around, but I don't use it much anymore.

m.musashi

February 27th, 2006, 06:48 PM

What exactly does Ubuntu do when you try to install it?
Basically, it goes through the first part and then on reboot kicks out to a shell. It's not a regular prompt and can't do sudo and such. It does not act like it has finished the install as it kicks to the shell before it would normally continue to set up. If I knew what I was doing I could probably make it work, but...

Thanks for the info. I'm totally against Suse but I can't say I'm really liking it. However, since it's all I can't get installed on my desktop it's either that or Windows (actually I'm dual booting :)).

mstlyevil

February 27th, 2006, 07:46 PM

No I haven't. Is OSS? I seem to recall having to buy it. That is deal with SuSE too. Buy it and you get most of the multimedia functionality. The OSS version is stripped down.

Is it debian? I don't know what SuSE is but I don't think it's debian. It uses rpms. Not sure what all that means but supposedly has to do with how it works and why it's different from ubuntu.

Thanks.

You can download the iso for free on their website. Yes it is Debian and it is based if I am not mistaken on Knoppix.

mstlyevil

February 27th, 2006, 07:48 PM

Basically, it goes through the first part and then on reboot kicks out to a shell. It's not a regular prompt and can't do sudo and such. It does not act like it has finished the install as it kicks to the shell before it would normally continue to set up. If I knew what I was doing I could probably make it work, but...

Thanks for the info. I'm totally against Suse but I can't say I'm really liking it. However, since it's all I can't get installed on my desktop it's either that or Windows (actually I'm dual booting :)).

Sounds to me like x-server is not being configured correctly. Have you tried Hoary or Dapper to see if they work?

stimpack

February 27th, 2006, 08:17 PM

Try Mepis. Great thing is you try the live CD, if you like it you click the install icon, well thought out distro.

xequence

February 27th, 2006, 08:34 PM

SuSE looks cool.

m.musashi

February 27th, 2006, 09:26 PM

Sounds to me like x-server is not being configured correctly. Have you tried Hoary or Dapper to see if they work?
I tried an early Dapper (flight 3 I think) with no luck. I didn't try Hoary. I think the main problem is the lack of support for my hardware - specifically the mobo. Even SuSE has problems and I was told by nvidia I would kernel 2.6.15 or newer to get some things to work (sound and network) so Hoary is probably going in the wrong direction. Maybe I'll give flight 4 a try or the Mepis thing. It seems a good posibility.

What I'd really like is to see dapper have more acpi support built in. That seems to be a big factor in the problems I'm having and everyone else with the board (nice long thread on the nvidia site about it). Also seems to be problems with distribution tables but I don't really understand all that.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. Much appreciated.

Almighty

February 27th, 2006, 09:39 PM

I have not tried a variety of distros but I can say if I was not using Ubuntu ( and I cant imagine not) I would install Knoppix onto my HDD. I believe this Distro is the next big thing if they ever move beyone live discs.

LongTooth

February 27th, 2006, 09:45 PM

m.musashi

February 27th, 2006, 10:07 PM

A distro that not too many recommend, and I don't know why, is GenieOS. http://genieos.toluenterprises.com/Home.html It's basiclly Debian Stable (Sarge) with all the plugins one would need - Flash, Java, codecs, Firefox plugins, etc.
That sounds interesting but raises some new questions. Namely, what exactly is debian and how do ubuntu, mepis, knoppix, etc differ if they are debian based and where does GenieOS fit in?

Other than an interface that I find appealing and useful, what do I really want in a linux distro? Since all use the linux kernel, are the diffs really just cosmetic and the degree to which they are a complete product?

Almighty, can you install knoppix? I've only briefly played with the live cd. It seemed a little rough around the edges. Can you elaborate on its strengths?

nrwilk

February 27th, 2006, 10:55 PM

can you install knoppix? I've only briefly played with the live cd. It seemed a little rough around the edges. Can you elaborate on its strengths?

Yes, you can.

It's one strength which I know of is that it can detect and support more hardware than any other distro. I dunno what makes it good once it's been installed.

You can also use the live disk, and have a persistant partition on a usb key where you can save prefs and files. I do that for linux at school. Just carry the disk and the usb key around together.

Lunixfanboy

February 27th, 2006, 11:17 PM

That sounds interesting but raises some new questions. Namely, what exactly is debian and how do ubuntu, mepis, knoppix, etc differ if they are debian based and where does GenieOS fit in?

Other than an interface that I find appealing and useful, what do I really want in a linux distro? Since all use the linux kernel, are the diffs really just cosmetic and the degree to which they are a complete product?

Almighty, can you install knoppix? I've only briefly played with the live cd. It seemed a little rough around the edges. Can you elaborate on its strengths?Debian (from Debra and Ian Murdock, guy who started it all and his wife) is a LARGE, community-developed Linux version which has been around for over ten years now. Package management is done by apt (Advanced Package Tool), dpkg (debian package), or dselect. The package format is .deb (how things are bundled up with instructions on how and where to put things). Ubuntu, Mepis, Knoppix, GenieOS, et al. use a particular code tree (Debian Stable, Testing, or Unstable) for their own core of packages, and then add the dash that makes them different. Mepis was about a different installer, Knoppix was a LiveCD (boot from it and run Linux without modifying your other OS), GenieOS started out as Debian Pure but ran into trouble over use of Debian in name. Most all use a combination of own and Debian repositories to provide packages. Knoppix CAN be installed to hard drive.

aysiu

February 27th, 2006, 11:19 PM

No one's mentioned PCLinuxOS?

nalmeth

February 27th, 2006, 11:30 PM

About SUSE, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS --> these are made by companies who offer a free version for anyone to use, but offer their premium version at a cost. You get a lot with the enterprise versions, likely including support, but Ubuntu is free from top to bottom. No missing features, besides non-free stuff which can still be installed, for free... Also peer support is awesome here, no need for professional support, although I think Canonical offers it (not free).

I'd go with Knoppix till you sorted out ubuntu probs --> maybe new dapper release.

I've heard you can make hybrid debian systems, maybe you can install knoppix and turn it from the inside out into ubuntu, maybe not.

You've got options at least, good luck!

EDIT: also, if you're building a custom computer, and plan to use linux on it, you should check for hardware that is sure to be fully compatible. Or, if you have chosen your hardware for other reasons, you should report and complain to your hardware manufacturer, and report to ubuntu-devel if you would like to help the cause!

opensourcerocks

February 27th, 2006, 11:34 PM

I like Debian and it's easy to find software. I still use Suse but not untill Ubuntu works on my computers.

nblythin

February 27th, 2006, 11:38 PM

I started off with Xandros, and really, really like it. Its Debian based with KDE. It is geared more towards a windows replacement, and so its meant to be very point and click - using it for 2 years on my business computers, I never had any reason to touch anything command line with it. Its a commercial distrobution, but they do have an open circulation edition too. The biggest draw back is no live CD - its an install only.

LongTooth

February 28th, 2006, 12:09 AM

Jump in. Head first. Thats the only way you'll ever learn. If you think you can get away without stumbling several times along the way, think again. There really is no way around this part of Linux.

Having said that let me tell you its the way I and many others started out, gnashing our teeth and pulling out clumps of hair. But after a while it got easier. Learning about Linux is a lot like brain surgery. Once you've got the basics down, no sweat.

The above mentioned distros are all good. They all have their followers. But if you want you first shot out of the gate to be easy and enjoyable get a distro that installs with as much apps and plugins and what-nots as possible. If that's what you want, then GenieOS, Mepis, Ubuntu (w/Automatix) or one of the commercial distros like Xandros, Linspire, SUSE is want you need.

m.musashi

February 28th, 2006, 12:49 AM

Wow! Lots of great info. That is why I like ubuntu.

I think I have pretty much jumped in head first. I installed ubuntu on two computers (one dapper one breezy) and tried to install on my desktop with no luck. I went with SuSE on a friends recommendation but it's giving me tons of headaches and I think I prefer debian.

I did pick hardware I thought would work. Everyone said nvidia is great as they actually release linux drivers. So I went with an nvidia board from Asus. Only problem is Asus doesn't seem to support linux as their BIOS is buggy and linux more so than windows relies on the BIOS (at least that seems to be what I'm finding out). I did complain and never heard back. They did release a new BIOS but it didn't fix any of the problems I am having.

I'm downloading Genie at this moment so I'll give it a try. I also have a knoppix cd around somewhere and pclinuxos too. I don't really want a commerrrcial distro - partly because I'm cheap and like the ubuntu philosophy regarding software and partly because I'm not sure what I choose will work and then I'd just be out the money (although the tech support would be nice but I'm also enjoying the learning process).

On the other hand, maybe more support of commercial linux efforts will help them to become even better. Maybe Bill Gates could donate a bunch of money :).

rubengs

February 28th, 2006, 01:15 AM

Another great debian based distro is Kanotix, you can install it really fast, basically you end with a Debian Etch system plus some other scripts and enhancements (you have multimedia support out of the box).

SUSE is good to support hardware, I had a system with some raid configuration that only SUSE detected, so I had to use this distro for a while, but when breezy updated the kernel I made a fast switch because Ubuntu is easier to configure and to keep up to date, you can use apt with SUSE too, but my experience has not been so good, in some moment the system becomes unstable, YAST can do almost the same than apt but doesn't manage dependencies as good.

DavidW2

February 28th, 2006, 02:08 AM

I did pick hardware I thought would work. Everyone said nvidia is great as they actually release linux drivers. So I went with an nvidia board from Asus. Only problem is Asus doesn't seem to support linux as their BIOS is buggy and linux more so than windows relies on the BIOS (at least that seems to be what I'm finding out). I did complain and never heard back. They did release a new BIOS but it didn't fix any of the problems I am having.

m.musashi, I did read that Asus does not support Linux very well. That's why I avoided them when I put togther my desktop system. My only regret was going with onboard ATI graphics. I installed SuSE 9.3 on it and it ran fine, but no 3D support. I just bought a 10.0 Eval DVD and will install that soon. When you add the repositories you can update to the Full version for free. Eval is free as well. Yast was a little tricky though. I think, for me its a good idea to be familiar with Debian and RPM base systems. I hope to be certified on SuSE by the end of the year.

My first Linux on this laptop was Xandros OC3. It resized my partitions and loaded up no problem. And it comes with a 30 day eval of CrossOver office.

Lux Perpetua

February 28th, 2006, 05:38 AM

One thing you must know about SuSE is that uses a lot of RAM. It appears to use about three times as much memory as Ubuntu on this computer. (Typical numbers: 135 MiB for Ubuntu Breezy, 419 MiB for SuSE 10.0.) This is not a fancy SuSE installation. My two installations are similar: I have had both installed for about one week, and in fact, I have installed more stuff on my Ubuntu system. This fact could go unnoticed on my notebook, which is loaded with RAM, but start up `top' or one of the system monitors and you might do a double-take.

It also takes up more hard disk space, but the difference is not so dramatic.

Advantages of SuSE include:
- Look and feel is very professional and slick. (I don't want to make this a KDE vs. GNOME thing; opinions will differ.) Default fonts look beautiful (better than Ubuntu, better than Windows).
- It is snappier and more responsive to the user.
- It has GUI config tools, which Ubuntu lacks.
- etc.

Disadvantages:
- yast < apt-get/synaptic (but apparently, apt can be installed and used instead of yast).
- SSH server is enabled by default (WTF?).
- SuSE does not have the equivalent of the Ubuntu Forums :)
- Philosophy is less "free" than Ubuntu/Debian.
- etc.

This is after just one week; I'm still learning.

purdy hate machine

February 28th, 2006, 10:41 AM

I would also recommend giving Mepis a try, its Debian based and has a huge repository of software which is just an apt-get away. Mepis also has one of the most slick KDE desktops I have used, and comes with an interesting selection of applications preinstalled as standard (Skype, GTKPod) Suse is a very nice distro but it wasn’t the one for me, I always seemed to be plagued with dependency hell.. Something I have never experienced with either Ubuntu or Mepis. :)

nrwilk

February 28th, 2006, 12:07 PM

Ok, I have a question which has nagged me for a while. Rather than starting a new thread, I figure I'll ask it here, since it's pretty much on topic.

There's Debian, and then there's
ubuntu,
Mepis,
Xandros,
Kanotix,
KNOPPIX,
Linspire,
progeny,
and a whole bunch more, listed here:
http://www.debian.org/misc/children-distros

Why is it that when people ask about other distros, I see Mepis, Linspire, Kanotix, KNOPPIX, and Xandros suggested more than Debian itself? Is there something that Debian is missing? Is it just very vanilla? Why are these distros more appealing? I see Mepis suggested most, probably.

I understand that they each have seperate goals, but it just seems to me that I don't see many people suggesting plain ol' Debian.

Is there a reason for this?

Also, as a side note: It makes me mad that Debian doesn't have a live disk. I want to try it without installing it. Maybe this is part of it?

m.musashi

February 28th, 2006, 04:33 PM

Good questions nrwilk. I have wondered the same. I'm sure someone will correct me if this is wrong but I think plain ol' debian lacks the gui of the distors and of course the particular flavoring of each. An earlier post mentioned genieos. What I got from their home page was that they wanted plain ol' debian with the gui.

If that is not correct please clarify.

I did try knoppix live and pclinuxos. Both were less than successful. Both loaded fine but no audio and pclinuxos had a weird split screen effect where my mouse would go to the edge and the appear on the other side and moving it around "unpainted" the desktop to reveal the icons and on the other side painted over them. I gave up right there.

I'm anxious to give mepis or genieos. I'll give 'em a try when I get home.

DavidW2, I wish I had read what you read. I was told by a open source guru friend that abit and asus were good boards and I should look for nvidia chips. I was also limited by needing mATX and I wanted the firewire, 4 gig RAM option and onboard DVI so I was rather limited. I also didn't look around much and just assumed that one board was a good as the next. This was my first attempt at a custom pc and I just figured "how hard can it be?" Well, lets just say I'm learning exactly how hard it can be.

Thanks to ubuntu forums it's not been too hard and even rather fun.

aysiu

February 28th, 2006, 04:51 PM

Why is it that when people ask about other distros, I see Mepis, Linspire, Kanotix, KNOPPIX, and Xandros suggested more than Debian itself? Is there something that Debian is missing? Is it just very vanilla? Why are these distros more appealing? I see Mepis suggested most, probably.

...

Also, as a side note: It makes me mad that Debian doesn't have a live disk. I want to try it without installing it. Maybe this is part of it? That is at least part of it. I recommend Mepis for a number of reasons:

1. It is one CD. One CD, not fourteen. It's one CD that is a live CD. When you boot the live CD, you can play around with it. If you decide you like it, you can install it (while it's still live) by clicking the "Install Me" icon on the desktop.

2. The installer is completely graphically and point-and-click, and people seem to like that. The partitioner is also point-and-click (QTParted).

3. The OS center in Mepis lets you reinstall Grub at the click of a mouse. We have an involved tutorial on the Ubuntu Forums that involves the live Ubuntu CD or a faked install with a dismissed error message.

4. Mepis comes with a whole bunch of proprietary codecs that a lot of people like to have out-of-the-box. Debian (like Ubuntu) does not have these. You can install these, but they aren't just there, ready to use.

These were at least the things that drew me to Mepis when I tried Linux last year.

After a while, though, I realized those things aren't that important. I value the community and support at the Ubuntu Forums. Mepis Lovers just can't beat that (sorry). I like starting vanilla (but functionally vanilla--no Linux from Scratch for me!) and adding stuff on rather than installing everything Mepis installs and then later trying to figure out getting rid of all the extra packages and services.

nrwilk

February 28th, 2006, 05:51 PM

Aysiu, those are all excellent features which I did appreciate when installing Mepis.

Also, another really cool feature is that it auto-detects remote printers on the network. It successfully detected the printer connected to one of my Macs. That's awesome.

Well, I really like the SOUND of Mepis, but after installing it earlier today I wonder if I may have downloaded an old iso image. The install of Mepis I have has an older kernel (choice between 2.4.2 and 2.6.7) and an old KDE (2.3.2!?!). Also, even after successfully setting my monitor brand and model, I still can't get > 1024x768 @ 70Hz (although I doubt that it really is 70Hz, because 70 is right on the brink of toleration for me, and this setup hurts my eyes pretty bad. It's as if it were more around 60Hz).

Does this sound right? Did I get a really old iso?

stimpack

February 28th, 2006, 07:30 PM

Why is it that when people ask about other distros, I see Mepis, Linspire, Kanotix, KNOPPIX, and Xandros suggested more than Debian itself? Is there something that Debian is missing? Is it just very vanilla?

Distros tend to add to debian, so reasons to use debian are fewer. If your talking servers then pure Debian is king. Red Hat, SUSE and Debian completly dominate the server market.

Well, I really like the SOUND of Mepis, but after installing it earlier today I wonder if I may have downloaded an old iso image. The install of Mepis I have has an older kernel (choice between 2.4.2 and 2.6.7) and an old KDE (2.3.2!?!). Also, even after successfully setting my monitor brand and model, I still can't get > 1024x768 @ 70Hz

Yes, should have had KDE 3.4.3 and a later kernal .10 or .12 i cant remember off hand. I had to change my xorg.conf to get over 1024x768

m.musashi

February 28th, 2006, 08:03 PM

I can't find it now but someone mentioned letting the dapper development team know about hardware that needs to be supported (i.e. my board). Does anyone know how to do that? Do you just email them? Is there a special forum? I'd love to see support for my board in dapper and then this whole discussion would be moot - not that I'm not enjoying it. Ubuntu definately has a great community.

nrwilk

February 28th, 2006, 08:11 PM

Ubuntu definately has a great community.
Word.

Jucato

February 28th, 2006, 11:24 PM

I was trying MEPIS last night for around 2 hours. I encountered a bit of trouble starting the LiveCD with the normal settings, had to use the VESA option (I have an nvidia geforce4 card). But it correctly set my resolution to 1024x768, something that Ubuntu/Kubuntu LiveCD would never do for me.

What I liked most about MEPIS was the one CD thing and the graphical tools it had for installation, grub, and pppoeconf (why don't we have one anyway?) I also liked the name and something minimally related to Egypt. :D But other than that, I found nothing particularly special with it. codecs have never been a problem for me (I believe in Ubuntu's philosophy of not including it built-in). hardware detection has not been a problem for me in any distro, so nothing special there. Haven't tried to look into mepislovers though. But it's definitely something worth trying out, if you're curious.

Next stop, trying out Knoppix, Suse, and Mandriva :D

OT question: I've seen somewhere that Suse has a Live CD, but only saw a live DVD download. can anyone point me to the right place to look? Mandriva also has a Live CD installer, but it's still in beta stages. Also, Suse has an 1-ISO download for a netinstall so you won't have to download all the CD's, I think. :D

DavidW2

February 28th, 2006, 11:39 PM

One thing you must know about SuSE is that uses a lot of RAM. It appears to use about three times as much memory as Ubuntu on this computer. (Typical numbers: 135 MiB for Ubuntu Breezy, 419 MiB for SuSE 10.0.) This is not a fancy SuSE installation.

You're right. I couldn't wait for my DVD to arrive so I installed the buggy download I had burned. It only missed three apps, otherwise it went smooth. But after reading your message I checked the memory usage. I have 1.5GB of RAM and 380MB free after booting. WOW! I had evern closed all of the terminals and browsers first. And I just did the standard, default install.

Another thing. Why do they put Evolution in four different places? (I know why but it seems ridiculous.)

LinuxKid

March 1st, 2006, 02:51 AM

definately mepis

I do wish that ubuntu had as much stuff as mepis does :sad:

but then again, ubuntu lets you customize what you want to use

anywas second choice would be Knoppix and then Damn Small (I know it's meant for live cd and usb, but it's very good)

sometime, I'm going to have to read that getting ubuntu to work with broadcom wifi adapters section, becuase I'm really getting annoyed at the problem of not having internet (every linux distro I used has that problem and it's getting me annoyed)

m.musashi

March 1st, 2006, 11:59 PM

Well, I gave mepis a try. The live cd booted fine but I couldn't get sound or networking to work. I thought it might be easier if I installed first and then messed with the nvidia drivers.

No go. On reboot I get...

Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(22,2)

and then that's it.

Very similar to the problems I've been having with ubuntu. So basically, every distro I've tried with the exception of suse has failed to install and suse only sort of works.

I don't see why this has to be so difficult. To be fair, I think the problem is my hardware - specifically the bios. Of course it would be nice if linux could rely less on the bios but then maybe that is partly why linux is linux and not windows.

Oh well. I sure hope dapper works when it's released. Or maybe I need to return this board.

mstlyevil

March 2nd, 2006, 12:08 AM

m.musashi

March 2nd, 2006, 12:19 AM

If you can return the board. DFI Infinity SLI is as high of quality as Asus and is a great value. Sound works perfectly on my board and Ubuntu configured everything right out of the box. DFI Infinty NForce4 SLI uses Realtek Audio (so does Gigabyte) but I am not sure what the Asus boards are using for sound.
I figure if I can't use it then it's defective and therefore returnable under the warranty. Asus needs to hear more complaints. There is a huge thread on the nvidia forum about my board with everyone complaining about it not working. Oddly enough, it is considered a great board even by many of the linux users who have problem after problem.

I looked up the board you recommended. It's ATX and I need mATX unless I want to buy a new case too (and I don't). I searched their site and found this (http://us.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_product_spec_details_r_us.jsp?PRODUCT_ID=4497&CATEGORY_TYPE=LP&SITE=NA) but it uses ATI chips and I hear they are more problematic than nvidia.

m.musashi

March 5th, 2006, 01:33 PM

Well, the solution to my problem was a new mobo. I bought an MSI board and ubuntu loaded right up. I still can't use the onboard nic or sound but that is because I can't figure out how to configure them. At least it works. Thanks for all the great tips. Unfortunately I didn't really get to try any of them because all failed with the old board. I should probably install mepis just for fun now and play around with it.

ComplexNumber

March 5th, 2006, 01:47 PM

i've tried ubuntu, debian, fedora, red hat, suse, mandriva. i found fedora(best for gnome) and suse(best for kde) to be the best and mandriva to be the worst.

m.musashi

March 5th, 2006, 01:59 PM

i've tried ubuntu, debian, fedora, red hat, suse, mandriva. i found fedora(best for gnome) and suse(best for kde) to be the best and mandriva to be the worst.
I was going to give fedora a try and then I just exchanged the mobo. Several other forums were recommending core 5 but I don't think that is released yet. Maybe when it's out it will give it a try. SuSE is pretty slick but it seems a bit bloated and being mostly an ubuntu user I couldn't figure out how to do things. I'll keep playing with it. I'm kind of waiting for them to update the kernel. I think it uses 2.6.13 and unlike ubuntu they don't seem to push the new kernel out. I think 10.1 is coming out soon so maybe I'll try that too.

Out of curiosity, where do you rank ubuntu?

ComplexNumber

March 5th, 2006, 02:23 PM

Several other forums were recommending core 5 but I don't think that is released yet. Maybe when it's out it will give it a try. its not out until about march 15th. i would give it a go - its got all the AIXGL stuff.

where do you rank ubuntu? if the instalation came on more than 1 CD, i would rank it near the top. but because my linux box doesn't have an internet connection, its near the bottom just because of that. its a good distro in other aspects, though. if you have an internet conenction and you have some experience with linux, it would be on a near par with fedora.

SuSE is pretty slick but it seems a bit bloated and being mostly an ubuntu user I couldn't figure out how to do things. suse is very good. gnome had been crippled on it before, though, so its not very good on suse. kde is very polished on it, and is hard to fault. suse is VERY slow and yast takes over the whole system a bit too much.

-deadcats

March 5th, 2006, 02:40 PM

I started using Linux a couple years ago with Linspire (& CNR). That was an easy way to get to know the Linux desktop. Moved on to SuSE and love it. Moved on again to Ubuntu (5.10 rocks on my PC--not so earlier versions). Been thinking about Gentoo a lot lately, especially since their release of the 2006.0 Installation/Live CD .ISO...

Love Ubuntu. Would hate to see its charm diminished by CNR (even Linspire has been unable to get around the fact that if you use CNR, your entire installation can be easily harmed by using any other packaging system--like APT or Synaptics, for instance.) You see, once you start with CNR you're pretty much stuck with CNR, including application-release and updates to be determined by Linspire's packaging team. That also can mean some fairly dated applications and libraries. If you're a developer, this is not a good thing.

To my way of thinking--with APT, Synaptics, and some great stuff like the Automatix script, using CNR would be a dramatic step BACKWARDS for Ubuntu and most of the folks wanting to learn Linux as well as learn Ubuntu.

I like Linspire--it was a great first Linux OS for me--and if you just can't get the hang of things-Ubuntu, it might be a great OS for you, too.

Gentoo, on the other hand--well, maybe next weekend... :)

best wishes to all,
-dc

nrwilk

March 6th, 2006, 12:32 AM

I'm going to try a Gentoo install pretty soon here too. I downloaded the 2006.0 iso a few days ago, but I haven't had enough time to install yet because I've had midterms.

Maybe next weekend for me too. :)

m.musashi

March 6th, 2006, 01:53 PM

its not out until about march 15th. i would give it a go - its got all the AIXGL stuff.
I saw a schedule somewhere that listed the 15th but said it was subject to change. Anyone know how definite that date is or do we just wait and see.

Is the AIXGL stuff you refer to the new desktop eye candy I've heard about with the rotating desktops and such? Just curious. I want to play with it but I don't feel like dealing with all the set up in ubuntu.

mstlyevil

March 6th, 2006, 02:08 PM

I saw a schedule somewhere that listed the 15th but said it was subject to change. Anyone know how definite that date is or do we just wait and see.

Is the AIXGL stuff you refer to the new desktop eye candy I've heard about with the rotating desktops and such? Just curious. I want to play with it but I don't feel like dealing with all the set up in ubuntu.

Not yet. The current eye candy app that does all of this is XGL combined with Compiz. AIXGL can theoretically combine with Compiz but no one has demonstrated that it actually works yet.

m.musashi

March 6th, 2006, 02:23 PM

So then what is AIXGL? Is it cool?

mstlyevil

March 6th, 2006, 02:30 PM

So then what is AIXGL? Is it cool?

It is the alternative to XGL. It will still be required to use compiz (The eye candy app) to do all those neat tricks. I believe the big difference is it is made to use open drivers versus the proprietary ones that XGL now favors. It is a extention to x-server if I am not mistaken.

Bandit

March 6th, 2006, 02:33 PM

So then what is AIXGL? Is it cool?
From what I understand its a acclerated graphics server overlay that uses the hardware 3D chipset to acclerate the desktop. Much like OSX does.
Also heard that AIXGL and XGL are eventualy going to be merged.
Of course I head it from someone on the SuSE forums so I cant ensure the acuratcy of the information.
Cheers,
Joey

m.musashi

March 6th, 2006, 02:53 PM

From what I understand its a acclerated graphics server overlay that uses the hardware 3D chipset to acclerate the desktop. Much like OSX does.
This raises a somewhat technical question for me... I am using the onboard graphics right now. I am not a big gamer but I would like to enjoy the XGL and/or AIXGL when I figure it out. Do I need a dedicated graphics card for this or will the on board suffice. I have the nvidia gforce 6100 GPU and nforce 410 MPC (http://www.nvidia.com/page/gpumobo_6100-410_features.html) chipset. I looked over the web site but didn't see anything about 3d. Does that imply that I can't do ANY 3d stuff?

Thanks.

mstlyevil

March 6th, 2006, 02:56 PM

This raises a somewhat technical question for me... I am using the onboard graphics right now. I am not a big gamer but I would like to enjoy the XGL and/or AIXGL when I figure it out. Do I need a dedicated graphics card for this or will the on board suffice. I have the nvidia gforce 6100 GPU and nforce 410 MPC (http://www.nvidia.com/page/gpumobo_6100-410_features.html) chipset. I looked over the web site but didn't see anything about 3d. Does that imply that I can't do ANY 3d stuff?

Thanks.

It supports DirectX 9 and Open GL so yes it is 3D enabled and should work with XGL/Comiz with the Nvidia drivers.

Bandit

March 6th, 2006, 03:05 PM

This raises a somewhat technical question for me... I am using the onboard graphics right now. I am not a big gamer but I would like to enjoy the XGL and/or AIXGL when I figure it out. Do I need a dedicated graphics card for this or will the on board suffice. I have the nvidia gforce 6100 GPU and nforce 410 MPC (http://www.nvidia.com/page/gpumobo_6100-410_features.html) chipset. I looked over the web site but didn't see anything about 3d. Does that imply that I can't do ANY 3d stuff?

Thanks.
If you have 3D enabled now then it should be fine. Just dont hold me to that since I am still finding out information about this whole AIXGL/XGL stuff myself. :)

m.musashi

March 6th, 2006, 03:46 PM

If you have 3D enabled now then it should be fine. Just dont hold me to that since I am still finding out information about this whole AIXGL/XGL stuff myself. :)
I don't think it's enabled as the 3d game I grabed with synaptic didn't work and said something about not having 3d acceleration. I don't know if that means I don't have it or just don't have it enabled. Obviously I need to keep reading (or just buy a graphics card).

Bandit

March 6th, 2006, 03:47 PM

mstlyevil

March 6th, 2006, 03:54 PM

m.musashi

March 6th, 2006, 04:05 PM

Do you have the Nvidia driver installed? If not that may be the reason you do not have 3D enabled.
Ah, that is a whole other issue. Nvidia drivers don't install easily in my experience. I did the add linux sources, gcc and whatever else was needed and finially was able to get the driver to act like it installed but I haven't figured out how to get ubuntu to use it. This has been not only a graphics problem but network and sound too. I still have no sound and am using a old PCI lan card for internet. Apparently I'm not the only one as there are numerous threads here and on the nvidia site.

But you are probably right in suspecting that is part or all of my problem (assuming that would add 3d support).

If you know how to fix this, let me know. I know you would earn mucho karmic points.

ComplexNumber

March 6th, 2006, 04:12 PM

I don't think it's enabled as the 3d game I grabed with synaptic didn't work and said something about not having 3d acceleration. I don't know if that means I don't have it or just don't have it enabled. Obviously I need to keep reading (or just buy a graphics card). it sounds like you haven't got the latest driver from nvidia. if you run glxgears, it should be painting at around 200-400 fps if your graphics card is under performing. i got the following info from linux magazine and i got my fps from an average of around 300-400 fps to aound 1200 fps by undating the graphics driver. got to nvidia and download trhe latest one. then run gxlgears(or is it glxgears?) again and compare. 3D games run so much more quickly afterwards.
you need to install it after dropping down to run level 3.

mstlyevil

March 6th, 2006, 04:15 PM

Ah, that is a whole other issue. Nvidia drivers don't install easily in my experience. I did the add linux sources, gcc and whatever else was needed and finially was able to get the driver to act like it installed but I haven't figured out how to get ubuntu to use it. This has been not only a graphics problem but network and sound too. I still have no sound and am using a old PCI lan card for internet. Apparently I'm not the only one as there are numerous threads here and on the nvidia site.

But you are probably right in suspecting that is part or all of my problem (assuming that would add 3d support).

If you know how to fix this, let me know. I know you would earn mucho karmic points.

Try checking your xorg configuration file.

sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf

Move down to this section and see which driver is being used.

Section "Device"
Identifier- leave this line alone!
Driver "nvidia"
BusID "PCI:1:0:0"
Option "RenderAccel" "true"
Option "AllowGLXWithComposite" "true"
EndSection

Under the part that says Driver it should say "nvidia". If not change that line to it and that will tell the x-server to use that driver. Also while you are at it add those two options on the bottom to the xorg.conf file. then save it and reboot. Don't do this until you check synaptic to see if the Nvidia driver is actually installed. Just do a search for nvidia and synaptic will tell you if it is installed or not. If it is not installed leave it alone and install the driver first or you will bork you xorg configuration.

m.musashi

March 6th, 2006, 04:26 PM

Thanks. I'll play with that when I get home. Just for clarification, that is for my graphics only, right? You wouldn't happen to know which file or app I use to tell ubuntu to use my nvidia drivers for sound and network?

Thanks.

mstlyevil

March 6th, 2006, 04:27 PM

m.musashi

March 6th, 2006, 04:31 PM

Thanks for the help. I'll see what happens. Maybe the final release of dapper will address some of these driver issues - then again maybe not :).

Kernel Sanders

March 6th, 2006, 04:34 PM

I havent tried ANY other distro's...... dont really want to either.......

Almost all the reviews put Ubuntu streets ahead of its nearest rival, so I dont really see the point? What i'm learning of Ubuntu, it seems to suit my needs perfectly?

My 2 cents......

mstlyevil

March 6th, 2006, 04:36 PM

Thanks for the help. I'll see what happens. Maybe the final release of dapper will address some of these driver issues - then again maybe not :).

You can already install the latest driver through synaptic in dapper. You still have to edit the xorg.conf file to get it to work but you do not need to compile it to run it.

polo_step

March 6th, 2006, 06:42 PM

I still haven't tried SuSE.

I've (largely unsuccessfully) fooled around with Linux for about seven years now, but haven't made it around to that distribution yet.

Basically, all Linux distributions suffer from the same variety of core problems, just with individual variations that will make them better or worse for your setup. Right now, the killer for me is poor Linux hardware support for currently popular devices, particularly for wireless and A/V.

Since getting my new notebook, I do at least 95% of my computer work on it (in bed), but since Linux is marginal at best on this hardware, I don't currently use that OS. About half the "live" Linux CDs I've tried won't even run on this box, let alone correctly (Ubuntu does, but doesn't properly support the wireless or graphics cards).

There are lots of drivers, but they aren't adequately developed so far. At some point, they may install and work as well as the XP drivers do, and then I'll probably give Linux another try. I understand that the next Ubuntu will have better-developed wireless support, so I'm keeping an eye on it.

Bandit

March 6th, 2006, 06:55 PM

ComplexNumber

March 6th, 2006, 07:26 PM

Plus that version concentraits more on Gnome. best wait for the next version of suse. gnome on suse 10 is quite buggy and slightly crippled.

suse is great for kde. in fact, its the best for kde IMO.

Bandit

March 6th, 2006, 07:57 PM

best wait for the next version of suse. gnome on suse 10 is quite buggy and slightly crippled.

suse is great for kde. in fact, its the best for kde IMO.
I have ran into more bugs in 10.0 then anyother release. Even KDE had strait up issues. Kubuntu with all the updates was totally much more stable.
10.1 will not have Gnome 2.14, they are releasing 10.1 on the 15th if everything goes to plan.
I myself am holding out for Ubuntu Dapper 64bit.
Cheers,
Joey

thecdn

March 7th, 2006, 03:41 PM

I did try knoppix live and pclinuxos. Both were less than successful. Both loaded fine but no audio and pclinuxos had a weird split screen effect where my mouse would go to the edge and the appear on the other side and moving it around "unpainted" the desktop to reveal the icons and on the other side painted over them. I gave up right there.

Are you referring to running it as a live cd? I had exactly the same problem and symptoms. When the start screen comes up press F2 and then type "livecd xdrv=vesa" I needed this because it wouldn't play nice with my ati X800XL card. (I also put in "xres=1280x1024 xbpp=24" but that might be different for you)

The screen came up fine and I was able to install from there. Pclinuxos is a very nice disto that I have been giving a serious look to for the last few weeks.

Try it again......

m.musashi

March 7th, 2006, 04:15 PM

Yeah, I was running the live cd. I've been pretty ubuntu-centric and I agree that I need to experiment with some others. Trouble is, I don't want to find 4 or 5 distros and then not be able to decide. I've been kind of leaning towards trying fedora when C5 comes out. Mepis and PClinuxOS sound interesting too. When I find the one that will do DVD-shrink like stuff natively (i.e. no wine - except red in a glass next to me) then I'll be home. Right now ubuntu + automatix is pretty cool. I'm using dapper though and no automatix yet :(.

thecdn

March 7th, 2006, 04:22 PM

I tried a dist-upgrade to dapper and then a clean install from flight 4 cd and in both cases I couldn't get out of 640x480 resolution.

That's when I decided to wait for dapper final and go try something else to play with :) (I'm not that good technically with linux yet so I'm definately happier with automatix around)

I currently have ubuntu, pclinuxos, and zenwalk (along with xp) on my main machine and xandros on my second machine. Choice is good but can be overwhelming at times!

m.musashi

March 11th, 2006, 02:02 AM

it sounds like you haven't got the latest driver from nvidia. if you run glxgears, it should be painting at around 200-400 fps if your graphics card is under performing. i got the following info from linux magazine and i got my fps from an average of around 300-400 fps to aound 1200 fps by undating the graphics driver. got to nvidia and download trhe latest one. then run gxlgears(or is it glxgears?) again and compare. 3D games run so much more quickly afterwards.
you need to install it after dropping down to run level 3.
Just got around to working on this. I have the setting in the xorg.conf as suggested. What I'm wondering is how I know the speed of glxgears. They move nicely but I can't tell if it's 200 fps or 1200. Can you enlighten me any more? Thanks.

beercz

March 11th, 2006, 07:43 AM

I use Debian alot for my servers - have done for years. Currently using Sarge (debian 3.1) on 4 servers - it's rock solid and super stable.

Using ubuntu (dapper) on 2 desktops - both are in daily (almost) continuous use.

nrwilk

March 11th, 2006, 02:15 PM

how I know the speed of glxgears. They move nicely but I can't tell if it's 200 fps or 1200. Can you enlighten me any more? Thanks.

Use the argument -printfps:
glxgears -printfpsOr,glxgears -iacknowledgethatthistoolisnotabenchmark

If you need a mark to measure your outcome against, here's my output from the above command (removing the first couple 5-second blocks, which usually do not reflect a true measurement):
This is on an nvidia 6600 TD, and the proprietary nvidia drivers. Version 8174, I think.
glxgears -printfps
28805 frames in 5.0 seconds = 5761.000 FPS
28807 frames in 5.0 seconds = 5761.400 FPS
28800 frames in 5.0 seconds = 5760.000 FPS
28810 frames in 5.0 seconds = 5762.000 FPS
:)

ComplexNumber

March 11th, 2006, 03:09 PM

Just got around to working on this. I have the setting in the xorg.conf as suggested. What I'm wondering is how I know the speed of glxgears. They move nicely but I can't tell if it's 200 fps or 1200. Can you enlighten me any more? Thanks. run it from the terminal. it gives you an update every 3 or 4seconds or so on the number of frames per second.

before you go to install the new graphics driver, type in 'init 3' on the terminal to drop down to run level 3. then go and find where you've put the driver and run the script.

EDIT: oops. looks like nrwilk beat me to it.

m.musashi

March 11th, 2006, 04:51 PM

Cool. Thanks. Now I see the output. I'm on my laptop at the moment and it looks like I don't have any 3d acceleration (even though the ATI site says my card does :confused: ). My output looks like this 1596 frames in 5.0 seconds = 319.154 FPS
1710 frames in 5.4 seconds = 318.530 FPS
1710 frames in 5.3 seconds = 321.757 FPS
1710 frames in 5.4 seconds = 318.232 FPS
1710 frames in 5.4 seconds = 318.716 FPS

Wow, that's not good. I'll try on my desktop later.

ComplexNumber

March 11th, 2006, 05:46 PM

Cool. Thanks. Now I see the output. I'm on my laptop at the moment and it looks like I don't have any 3d acceleration (even though the ATI site says my card does :confused: ). My output looks like this 1596 frames in 5.0 seconds = 319.154 FPS
1710 frames in 5.4 seconds = 318.530 FPS
1710 frames in 5.3 seconds = 321.757 FPS
1710 frames in 5.4 seconds = 318.232 FPS
1710 frames in 5.4 seconds = 318.716 FPS
Wow, that's not good. I'll try on my desktop later. you've definitely not got any 3D acceleration. the range of fps that you're getting would indicate that your graphics card is underperforming (according to what i was reading in linux format).

nrwilk

March 11th, 2006, 05:56 PM

What's your card's brand and model? I saw nvidia mentioned earlier in the thread, but you just said you got some info off of ATI's site.

m.musashi

March 11th, 2006, 08:23 PM

Sorry to confuse you. I have an nvidia motherboard on my desktop and the one I was frustrated with when I started this thread.

I was playinig on my laptop when I tried the glxgears stuff above. I was hoping my laptop also supported 3d acceleration. I checked the ATI website and they said it did. It's an ATI Radeon Mobility 9000 M9 (at least according to my xorg.conf file).

m.musashi

March 12th, 2006, 01:49 PM

you've definitely not got any 3D acceleration. the range of fps that you're getting would indicate that your graphics card is underperforming (according to what i was reading in linux format).
Those figures were for a dell 600m laptop. I don't know what those are supposed to be capable of.

I ran glxgears on my desktop and got the below data. I'm currently just using the onboard graphics (gforce 6100) which is supposed to be capable of moderate 3d. I can play planet penguin racer, bzflag, and the 3d tron. I'm not big into games but I like something to pass the time from time to time. Any other 3d game I should try?
7970 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1593.860 FPS
9276 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1855.191 FPS
9276 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1855.052 FPS
9275 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1854.999 FPS
9275 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1854.943 FPS

Still not looking great. Maybe the onboard isn't all that great.
Thanks for the help. I guess the thread has really gone off topic. Oh well, that happens when chatting.

nrwilk

March 12th, 2006, 05:09 PM

7970 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1593.860 FPS
9276 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1855.191 FPS
9276 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1855.052 FPS
9275 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1854.999 FPS
9275 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1854.943 FPS

Still not looking great. Maybe the onboard isn't all that great.
Thanks for the help. I guess the thread has really gone off topic. Oh well, that happens when chatting.

I don't think that looks too bad for an onboard setup. You probably picked the perfect board for the type of gaming that you want to do.

The chatting is actually a cool side effect of the casual feeling this thread has going. A lot of these topics, opinions and questions are genuine, but aren't really the stuff that constitutes starting a new thread. So, it's good to have a couple threads where we can schmooze and talk about stuff we've been wondering about.

Thanks for that! :D

m.musashi

March 13th, 2006, 01:01 AM

I don't think that looks too bad for an onboard setup. You probably picked the perfect board for the type of gaming that you want to do.
Thanks for the reassurance. I was trying to build an inexpensive but still nice computer. I got a mATX board for the onboard but really didn't know what I was doing. Good to know I didn't do too bad. Of course it still ended up costing more than I wanted (or had:)) and then I can't even get linux to run on it without a load of hassles. Life just isn't fair.

I'm playing around with SuSE again. I just got the onboard NIC to work. All I did was reinstall the driver. It's a new board and seems less buggy than the other one. Now if I can only get sound to work... Of course, I'm still partial to ubuntu but at this point it's a bit more troublesome. On the plus side I know a WHOLE lot more than I did when I started a couple months ago \\:D/ .

The chatting is actually a cool side effect of the casual feeling this thread has going. A lot of these topics, opinions and questions are genuine, but aren't really the stuff that constitutes starting a new thread. So, it's good to have a couple threads where we can schmooze and talk about stuff we've been wondering about.

Thanks for that! :D
Hey, glad I'm able to give something back.

adam.tropics

March 13th, 2006, 09:16 AM

Gentoo, on the other hand--well, maybe next weekend...

-deadcats, how did ya get on? I tried it, and came to the conclusion I should leave gentoo alone until I am at least an ubuntu 'yoda'.!! Not yet, anyway!!!

If anyone here is feeling like leaving ubuntu, go try Gentoo! I promise, you'll be back here within 24 hours feeling much better about ubuntu again.

ComplexNumber

March 13th, 2006, 09:18 AM

-deadcats, how did ya get on? I tried it, and came to the conclusion I should leave gentoo alone until I am at least an ubuntu 'yoda'.!! Not yet, anyway!!!

If anyone here is feeling like leaving ubuntu, go try Gentoo! I promise, you'll be back here within 24 hours feeling much better about ubuntu again. ubuntu is said to be an old african word to mean "i can't compile gentoo" :D

bugmenot

March 13th, 2006, 09:25 AM

ubuntu is said to be an old african word to mean "i can't compile gentoo" :D
sudo apt-get source -b gentoo

Not that hard. ;)

adam.tropics

March 13th, 2006, 09:30 AM

sudo apt-get source -b gentoo

Not that hard.

that's like the dentist saying 'not to worry, this wont hurt a bit' !!!

Leo_01

March 13th, 2006, 09:37 AM

I really wanna try out more Linux distos like red hat or Novell Linux...
Seems pretty nice...
:P
But this got to wait till i understand linux enugh first.

LongTooth

March 13th, 2006, 11:10 AM

About Gentoo... If you don't mind getting your teeth pulled without any pain killer, give it a try. I don't mean to start a flame war but Gentoo is a distro that takes a Hell of a Lot out of you. I mean, this is definitely not a nebwie or even an intermediate user distro. And time? Whoo, boy you better have time on your hands. Last time I gave Gentoo a shot it took DAYS to download programs.

Is it worth it? You'll have to ask you self. But for me, not at all. Some say, 'But Gentoo is optimized for your machnie'. I sure didn't see my PC opening apps or booting up any faster than with Fedora or Suse or Ubuntu. Many fine distros out there that can get you the speed and apps and eye-candy in a lot less time and with less the hassles.

Gentoo is a lot like building an auto - from scratch. Will this hand built auto get you from point A to point B any faster? I don't think so. So, when other options are available, why not consider them. Especially if it saves you in time and aggravation and the results are the same?

If one really want to get down into the bowles of Linux, I would recommend Slackware. Now that distro is also not a newbie's distro but it dosn't take your whole life time to get it working. And one can see results in a shorter time frame than with Gentoo.

Now Gentoo users, don't take this personally but even in the Linux world there are Masochists among us. Just my opinion

m.musashi

March 13th, 2006, 03:49 PM

I really wanna try out more Linux distos like red hat or Novell Linux...
Seems pretty nice...
:P
But this got to wait till i understand linux enugh first.
I tried SuSE and Ubuntu at the same time. Installed one on each of my machines. I ended up using ubuntu a lot more. I found that SuSE was nice to look at but I had a hard time with yast. Ubuntu just seemed nicer. Maybe that is partly the difference between kde and gnome but also partly debian vs rpm. If you went on looks alone I should have ended up liking SuSE more but for me I think it was the community. You just can't beat the ubuntu folks. I think that is as important as flash (maybe more so). Don't get me wrong, I think SuSE has a lot going for it and you can make ubuntu look cool. Give it a try. I only started using linux 3 months ago and neither has been that difficult - although I still haven't figured out audio on either :).

thecdn

March 13th, 2006, 04:04 PM

I tried SuSE and Ubuntu at the same time. Installed one on each of my machines. I ended up using ubuntu a lot more. I found that SuSE was nice to look at but I had a hard time with yast.

You too? I found Suse was a beautiful distro with a lot of features but I just couldn't fathom the workings of yast. Maybe I was spoiled after using synaptic :p

I also use pclinuxos and that is rpm based but uses synaptic also. I was scared to try a non-debian distro - still very much a newbie technically, but it was ok with my friend synaptic along.

m.musashi

March 13th, 2006, 04:47 PM

You too? I found Suse was a beautiful distro with a lot of features but I just couldn't fathom the workings of yast. Maybe I was spoiled after using synaptic :p

I also use pclinuxos and that is rpm based but uses synaptic also. I was scared to try a non-debian distro - still very much a newbie technically, but it was ok with my friend synaptic along.
I still want to try Mepis. Several people in this thread recommended it. It is debian based. However, I'm not sure how many distros I want to subject myself to ;) .

aysiu

March 13th, 2006, 04:49 PM

I still want to try Mepis. Several people in this thread recommended it. It is debian based. However, I'm not sure how many distros I want to subject myself to ;) . Subject yourself to as many as...

... you have blank CDs for
... you have time to install and play with
... you'll need to experiment with before being satisfied with one being your semi-permanent distro-of-choice

I tried probably about twelve distros before settling on Ubuntu.

Bandit

March 13th, 2006, 04:54 PM

I tried probably about twelve distros before settling on Ubuntu.
Same here :)

ajgreeny

March 17th, 2006, 05:48 AM

I have a triple booting comp with Breezy as my main OS, Suse 10 as another option of linux and winXP, which I use only for DTP, because linux hasn't yet quite sorted that to my requirements.

I love Breezy, Kubuntu version, though I added kubuntu-desktop to the standard install, and use it all the time. Suse I look at occasionally, but don't like yast and find it very slow for software updates etc, compared with apt-get or synaptic.

I am soon going to try out Mepis just for the hell of it as it sems to get very good reports whenever I look it up on distrowatch etc, and of course it is debian based so will have apt-get and synaptic available as a means of getting software from the debian repos. I think it will have a great difficulty being better that Ubuntu, however, and its forum just couldn't beat this one which is the best I've ever used in my computer existence!
Thanks guys, keep it up.

nrwilk

March 18th, 2006, 06:46 PM

I'm liking Mepis a lot. Though, not enough to replace Kubuntu. If they want to really kick some butt, those forums they have are going to have to be better. As of now, they're terrible. There's nothing worse than a forum which is more like a "guest book" than anything else.

I don't know much yet about how the inner workings of each distro differ, but it seems that they're putting too much constraint on themselves by using debian's repositories. Is that true, or can they still be free to make the distro unique without breaking the packages being used from debian repositories?

akiro.yamamoto

March 21st, 2006, 03:21 AM

I've tried...
SUSE 10
PCLinuxOS 0.92
Elive 0.4
Slackware 10.0 (Last one with Gnome)
Slax
Puppy
OSX x86 (Don't ask ;) )
And that is just over the past year....
Now I dual-boot SUSE 10 (10%) and Ubuntu 5.10 (90%)
SUSE is very nice but it just feels wrong ;)

Jucato

March 21st, 2006, 03:57 AM

How long do you think I should spend on testing out another distro? days? 1 week? 2 weeks? Might go into an install spree for the next few weeks, starting with Ubuntu and MEPIS (I have a whole lot others in my list, but my current collection is limited to those 2 for now).

But I feel that I will keep coming back to Ubuntu because of it's community and it's philosophy. :D

ComplexNumber

March 21st, 2006, 09:06 AM

How long do you think I should spend on testing out another distro? days? 1 week? 2 weeks?
up to the point that you can make a definite decision.

thecdn

March 21st, 2006, 09:17 AM

I've tried...SUSE 10

I tried that and thought it was a beautiful, very full featured distro but I could never get the hang of using yast properly after using synaptic so I gave up on it. Is there a trick to using yast?

I've tried...PCLinuxOS 0.92

I currently use this about 80% of the time as I'm giving it a full try out. Since you don't use it anymore, where did you find it lacking?

purdy hate machine

March 21st, 2006, 09:48 AM

SUSE 10 is very very polished indeed but I find myself drawn back to Debian based distros every time as I miss apt/synaptic. I’m currently playing with Elive on my test machine and I’m very impressed by it so far, plus it looks wonderful.

linbetwin

March 21st, 2006, 10:27 AM

I've tried the following:

Ubuntu 5.04 Hoary (my first Linux distro): Coming from Redmondland, I was impressed. Not because Ubuntu was better than XP, but because I had no idea Linux could be that easy to install and use.

Mandrakelinux 10.1: Looked better than the Brown Hedgehog, but I couldn't get my cable modem connected through USB. After hours of scratching my head, I went out for a cigarette. When I came back, my display looked like a code bar. I figured it was some kind of screensaver, but it turned out that my system was frozen, so I gave up on Mandrake.

SUSE 9.3: I couldn't wait for SUSE 10.0, so I tried a netinstall of SUSE 9.3. I was glad my USB cable modem worked, but at my connection speed it would have taken me at least one day to download the system. So I wiped my tears and aborted the install.

SUSE 10.0: No USB connection, unstable and slugish (on my hardware).

Ubuntu 5.10: Getting better, but not quite there yet.

Mandriva 2006: USB connectivity at last!!! ...and rpm hell...

Debian Sarge: Tried a net install. No USB connectivity, no install. Shame! But hey, I tried...

PCLinuxOS .92: Polished, stable, impressive... but not quite there yet. Not enough packages. But it was the most newbie-friendly I've tried and everything worked out of the box.

Ubuntu Dapper: I can see the new looks (and not necessarily like it), I can see the bugs (and I don't complain, since it's an alpha), but I don't see no stinkin' speed improvements! Not on my hardware (i.e. Athlon XP 2200+, 1,8 GHz, 512 DDRAM, ATI RADEON 7000 VE 64 MB RAM).

I should add to the list countless Ubuntu "colonies", "flights", betas and RCs.

I'm thinking of giving Fedora Core 5 a try, but I have mixed feelings about this distro. Maybe that's a good sign. Wish me luck!

Oh, and I'm also looking forward to testing another beta. It's a little-known distro called Windows Vista, put toghether by some script kiddy called BillyG. I'll let you know how it went.

Maelgwyn

March 24th, 2006, 06:39 AM

I've just installed SUSE, and it seems ok to me... I'm not the world's best or worse Linux user, I would class myself as low-intermediate user.

I agree that SUSE is going to take some time to get used to, it's just so different to the apt-get mentality I've developed since the start of the year!

m.musashi

March 24th, 2006, 01:01 PM

I download and installed Fedora Core 5 last night. I thought the install was a bit more cumbersome than ubuntu - especially the partition part. It wouldn't let me add a new a partion and I couldn't figure out how to do it manually. My only option was to use a linux partion so it was good bye suse (no way I'm killing ubuntu). After that the install was quick and easy but then it wouldn't boot. It hung on something about email and that was it. I'll play with it some more as I'd like to see what it's about. I thought it was debian based but seems to use RPMs. I'm not real clear on this aspect of Linux but I thought those were opposites.

I scanned their forum for some help but didn't find much. No where near as nice as this one. One guy even told a newbie looking for help that he wouldn't link him to the right page because it would be good for him to do his own search. Probably true but one of the best things about this forum is they help newbies. With an attitude like that I probably would not have stuck with Linux long enough to learn how cool it is.

Still need to try mepis.

oblio

March 24th, 2006, 04:11 PM

Still need to try mepis.

Still need to try mepis.

Download Mepis 3.4-3, the latest release. Try the livecd first. Then click "Install me" while still in the livecd and install Mepis - and your nvidia driver at the end.

Mepis is still my favorite distro. I am currently also using Kubuntu Dapper Flight 5 - and I like it. But Mepis is definitely the more complete distro, nicely preconfigured for multimedia-use, samba, flash, java, etc. - out of the box. Wireless support is also better than in a lot of other distros. The upcoming Mepis (based on (K)ubuntu-kernel, using (K)ubuntu repositories and the Mepis repository) might be a real knockout.... Presumed to be released just after Dapper is released.

I have tried quite a lot of distros and I keep coming back to just debian based ones (all using KDE - sorry U-guys: I like KDE better) like Mepis, Kanotix and now Kubuntu.
SUSE 10.0 OSS lasted all of 2 hours on my system - untill I experienced "dependency hell". The only .rpm based distro that I enjoyed was PCLinuxOS 0.92, but it looked a bit 'too much XP' to me.

1. Mepis.
2. Kubuntu Dapper Flight 5.
3. Kanotix

Regards,

nrwilk

March 25th, 2006, 07:13 PM

Well, looks as if I've got to start over. It more of a blessing in disguise, actually.

I just effectively wiped my drive while trying to install gentoo. I have no idea how i happened. I tried to format my Mepis partition and resize it, and I ended up with nothing but XP. It weird because I didnt instruct the partitioner to touch any other partitions.

But, I like to reinstall and start over. It gives me a clean feeling. Anyway, I wasn't using Mepis at all, and it was giving me several problems, so I wanted rid of it. Plus, it installed too much stuff out-of-the-box. I want to install only that which I need (clean partitions again). That's why I like ubuntu with a server install.

I am gong to miss the Dapper partition, though. I had a nice Xgl/Compiz setup on there. Oh well, more learning! That's what I'm here for! I don't even use my PowerMac anymore. I used to be a hardcore MacHead, and now it doesn't even interest me. :-| strange.

Anyway, back to trying for gentoo before I reinstall Breezy and Dapper. That way the next time I screw it up I don't lose everything again. :-D

Wish me luck, I really want to try out gentoo.

m.musashi

March 26th, 2006, 06:09 PM

Finally tried mepis last night. Since FC5 wouldn't work, I was going to install mepis over it. First it wouldn't boot up. Well, it did but gave me the mepis wallpaper - and nothing else! No menus, panels, or anything else. Right/left click = nothing. I tried again and the second time it finally booted right. I don't know why. I click the "install me" and everytime I try to I end up crashing something. Qt parted wouldn't work. Even just letting try and do its own thing didn't work.

This computer has given me a lot of frustration with Linux distros. I don't know if it's kernel issues, BIOS or what. I have been able to install XP, Suse and Ubuntu. Everything else just fails. I've had better luck with my laptop. Maybe I'll give that a try.

sbasak

March 27th, 2006, 06:10 AM

My Linux ventures so far -

Ubuntu 5.10 - live CD worked fine - used initially:)
SuSE 10 - live DVD - did not work :-?
Puppy Linux 1.0.8 - worked fine, use often
Knoppix 4.0.2 - live DVD, worked fine, use mostly :)

polo_step

March 27th, 2006, 06:12 AM

m.musashi

March 27th, 2006, 12:15 PM

Somewhere back in this thread, someone was asking about Ubuntu & nVidia board drivers/functioning.

I was building a ECS nForce 3A-based box for someone last week, and to do a quick function test, I booted Ubuntu 5.10 Live. I didn't do an in-depth analysis, but the nVidia chipset was apparently working fine, as I was streaming Radio Classique Paris's 128k .mp3 audio off the net, playing it back through the native 10/100 LAN and onboard audio. LAN was doing full-speed DSL download on testing. Everything at least seemed slick.

All on a straight, unconfigured CD boot! Most other live distros distros would not even boot, much less work.
I don't know that much about nvidia chipsets but the one I had (and continue to have) problems with is the gforce 6100/410 and 6150/430 combinations. I may be wrong but I think the nforce chipsets are older and more likely to have better support. As things continue to be upgraded, even the newer chipsets should get supported - at least that is what I'm hoping. However, I am using dapper with the now 2.6.19 kernel and still can't get the onboard nic to function right and no audio. Lot's of tips and tweaks out there but still not "just working".

On older hardware, though, I've seen ubuntu work perfectly.

johnnymac

March 27th, 2006, 01:59 PM

I've used quite a few distributions before settlin' down with ubuntu. For quite some time I used SuSE....but Novell acquired it and now its POO. I have to use RedHat at work on our systems....and it royally bytes. Now, my favorite by far has and will always be Gentoo; however, who has the time anymore?? I mean really - to get your system set up the way you want it takes days!

So...I like ubuntu. Installation is fast, hardware support is great, and I've never had any problems <searching for wood to knock on>. AND I've been using Dapper for several weeks now without trouble.

Ubuntu by far has been the overall best for me. I use it at work on my workstation (Dell Lattitude laptop - ATI Video) and at home (AMD64 XPC Shuttle - NVidia Video) and so far...no complaints.

polo_step

March 27th, 2006, 06:46 PM

I don't know that much about nvidia chipsets but the one I had (and continue to have) problems with is the gforce 6100/410 and 6150/430 combinations. I may be wrong but I think the nforce chipsets are older and more likely to have better support.

[...]

On older hardware, though, I've seen ubuntu work perfectly.
I didn't realize that this chipset was "old," though it's certainly true that new stuff is never supported in Linux except by pure miracle. In any case, this current-production chipset seemed to be supported well.

I've never had any box work "perfectly" in some seven years of using Linux in a couple of dozen distributions, due to the generally poor hardware support one finds for current hardware. The hardware has to essentially be obsolete to be supported out of the box in most distributions, thus my utter surprise that this box at least superficially worked so well with Ubuntu 5.10 Live when all the others I tried just croaked.

5.10 works hugely better than the miserable 5.04 did on my various machines here, and I'm anxiously awaiting 6.06 (or whatever it's going to be) in hopes that it will be worthy of permanent install on my reserved Linux box.

I also hope that there's decent wireless support with non-obsolete security features on install, and maybe even Unichrome Pro video support for my notebook. There've been Linux drivers for all that for some time, but no distro has incorporated them yet.

m.musashi

March 28th, 2006, 01:38 AM

I didn't realize that this chipset was "old," though it's certainly true that new stuff is never supported in Linux except by pure miracle. In any case, this current-production chipset seemed to be supported well.
"Old" may not be the right word but I assume it's older than nforce 4 and gforece 6100 and 6150 as that is the way numbering systems usually work :). I actually don't know - just guessing. I was simply pointing out that it may be older than some of the other chipsets that don't enjoy good support. Personally, I'm starting to regret buying "newer" technology. I guess they don't call it bleeding edge for nothing.

nrwilk

March 28th, 2006, 03:56 AM

Well, I tried Fedora Core 5. It only lasted on my system for about 4 hours.

Have I been spoiled by debian's blessed repository system?

A question to anyone who knows more about this: Why would anyone want to run a Red-Hat based system (or any other) over a Debian-based system? Where are the advantages? Isn't it just more work? Is there any plus side?

I guess I understand gentoo for ultra hardcore powerusers, but why Fedora? What's the point of putting yourself through that?

I mean it took me like 2 hours to install Frozen Bubble on Fedora. It takes like 2 minutes including download to install it on Kubuntu.

helpme

March 28th, 2006, 04:06 AM

I mean it took me like 2 hours to install Frozen Bubble on Fedora. It takes like 2 minutes including download to install it on Kubuntu.
Sorry, but I'll put that down to user error.
Installing software on Fedora isn't any harder than installing it on Ubuntu.

And just to add some things that make Fedora interesting:
-Selinux
-rpm has multilib support
-Fedora is a lot better at providing the latest software

nrwilk

March 28th, 2006, 10:12 AM

Sorry, but I'll put that down to user error.
Installing software on Fedora isn't any harder than installing it on Ubuntu.

And just to add some things that make Fedora interesting:
-Selinux
-rpm has multilib support
-Fedora is a lot better at providing the latest software

I can accept that explanation completely. Although, I would like to ask (since I'm not used to it) how a usual software install goes on a Red Hat based system? I downloaded an rpm which said it was built for Red Hat and Fedora. When I did the following command, it gave me a list of missing dependencies:
rpm -Uvf frozen-bubble-....rpm

So, I then took up a search for the missing dependencies. It took me a while to find them all. Does a usual rpm include the dependencies? What is multilib support?

You don't have to answer these questions, I'm just showing you where my ignorance lies when it comes to other distros.

Anyway, I didn't wipe it off my drive. I did find it very snappy and clean. I'll try to learn it more, but for today I've got an exam.

helpme

March 28th, 2006, 10:28 AM

I can accept that explanation completely. Although, I would like to ask (since I'm not used to it) how a usual software install goes on a Red Hat based system? I downloaded an rpm which said it was built for Red Hat and Fedora. When I did the following command, it gave me a list of missing dependencies:
rpm -Uvf frozen-bubble-....rpm

So, I then took up a search for the missing dependencies. It took me a while to find them all. Does a usual rpm include the dependencies? What is multilib support?

You don't have to answer these questions, I'm just showing you where my ignorance lies when it comes to other distros.

Anyway, I didn't wipe it off my drive. I did find it very snappy and clean. I'll try to learn it more, but for today I've got an exam.
The normal way to install software is to use yum, which is roughly the equivalent for apt-get.

So, to install something, simply do a yum install whatever and it will be installed and the dependencies will be resolved automatically for you.

What you did is similar to installing something with dpkg, which will also get you into dependency problems easily.

Take a look at the great fedorafaq to learn more:
http://www.fedorafaq.org/

htinn

March 28th, 2006, 10:31 AM

I think yum needs some speed improvements before you can really compare it to apt-get.

nrwilk

March 28th, 2006, 10:34 PM

I think yum needs some speed improvements before you can really compare it to apt-get.
Well, I have to admit that I didn't try yum because I've always heard that it sucks a lot, especially when compared to apt-get. Mind you, this is only hearsay.

I also had always assumed that yum repositories had limited packages. Am I wrong in this? Does Fedora have a comparable amount of software in their repositories to ubuntu or Debian?

Thanks for the chat, btw! I always love to learn more. :D

ajgreeny

April 21st, 2006, 05:38 AM

I contributed to this thread back at entry #93, saying I was about to try Mepis 3.4.3. Well,I now have Mepis on my second hard disk instead of Suse 10, which I didn't like much; yast is sooo slow compared with apt or synaptic at updating and installing software.
Mepis certainly worked out the box with almost all multimedia files, as promised, and looks and works much like my (K)ubuntu, but the forum, as some other person has remarked, is utterly hopeless compared to this one, where you can get some sort of help from people without too much problem.
Mepis is usefull, but I'm sticking with (K)ubuntu as my main OS as it does absolutely everything I need and more.

yatt

April 21st, 2006, 05:51 AM

Ubuntu Breezy--------->Does not boot!
Ubuntu Dapper Alpha--->Works fine!
Ubuntu Dapper Beta---->Does not boot!
SUSE------------------> Only 10.1 would run. No repositories available at the time. Moved on to the next distro.
Debian----------------->Horribly slow dl servers. Does not detect my Hard Disks (both etch and sarge).
MEPIS------------------>Runs well, easy to install. FGLRX just worked (before it even officially supported my card). Many little annoyances throughout the system (ie iPod not automounting).
Mandriva---------------->No madwifi, therefore no internet, therefor no way.
Fedora Core 5----------->Beautiful, but even with a step by step guide I could not install the madwifi driver.

yatt

April 21st, 2006, 05:56 AM

Well, I have to admit that I didn't try yum because I've always heard that it sucks a lot, especially when compared to apt-get. Mind you, this is only hearsay.

I also had always assumed that yum repositories had limited packages. Am I wrong in this? Does Fedora have a comparable amount of software in their repositories to ubuntu or Debian?

Thanks for the chat, btw! I always love to learn more. :D
From what I have heard, Fedora's repositories are larger than Ubuntu's but much smaller than Debian's. One can install and use apt on ubuntu and use that with the RPM's on its repositories, it is not as nice as apt-get + DEBs but it is much better than yum. Smart is also available, which I have heard is better than apt-get (and not yet mature). Smart maybe be considered for Ubuntu 6.10, but do not quote me on that.

m.musashi

June 5th, 2006, 11:09 PM

Well, it's been a while since I posted here but I thought I'd provide a small update. I just finished installing Suse 10.1 and I'm amazed at how many of my problems have been solved. Sound works (but not the integrated nic). Out of the box, flash and various web video formats play. And the big green lizzard has been reeplaced by a soothing blue background ala osx. I don't think I'll be leaving Ubuntu but so far this is one of the few distros that installed and worked more or less flawlessly out of the box. I can't even say that for Windows.

RAV TUX

June 5th, 2006, 11:14 PM

I thought I would like SUSE, always have.

SUSE would have been my first choice until I learned of Ubuntu.

to my disappointment SUSE wouldn't even load on my computer EM64T Dual-Core

so I wasted 4 or 5 perfectly good CD's

m.musashi

June 6th, 2006, 06:57 PM

Ubuntu is still my first choice but Suse 10.0 was the first distro that would install on my AMD64 computer. I finally got Ubuntu to work but never well (on my desktop, has always worked well on my laptop). However, Suse 10.1 is a big improvement and works even better (I have sound for the first time...yeah).

jatilq

June 7th, 2006, 02:50 PM

To be honest I have a Toshiba Satellite and the best distro for me was Katonix (lacking english support in forums)

Then I installed SuSe 10.1 worked well, but same problem as Katonix.

I have tried Ubuntu several times but had a problem with my mouse, it would stop in the middle of a session. I figured the problem when I reinstalled SuSe 10.1 (needed to add a smp module) and now I am back using Ubuntu and it works like a dream.

Best distro if you want good ideals or support for your distro via forums. I like to test cutting edge applications, but would like some help fixing my mistakes.