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Roasted
December 8th, 2009, 11:48 PM
Is there some sort of OFFICIAL guide that tells you step by step by step by step to upgrade Jaunty 9.04 Kubuntu to KDE 4.3.2? I upgraded it 3 times on other machines no problem. I upgraded it on my laptop today, and it bombed, yet I followed the guide to a T.

Most guides are like, add the PPA, update it, blah blah. I'd like to see if there was an official step by step by step guide. Any ideas?

3Miro
December 9th, 2009, 02:12 AM
KDE 4.2 on Intrepid (kubuntu) worked fine on my desktop. KDE 4.2 on Jaunty lost the sound. KDE 4.3 on Karmic ran well on my desktop, but when I tried to install it on both of my two laptops, it either ran like crap, or not at all.

Ubuntu (Gnome) runs in all cases without trouble.

I think Kubuntu just sux as an OS. It is basically because Ubuntu is so Gnome centered that all of its software and everything about it assumes Gnome. Don't get me wrong, I wish Kubuntu were better so I can use KDE, but it is now, you basically never know when it will crash.

Roasted
December 9th, 2009, 02:44 AM
KDE 4.2 on Intrepid (kubuntu) worked fine on my desktop. KDE 4.2 on Jaunty lost the sound. KDE 4.3 on Karmic ran well on my desktop, but when I tried to install it on both of my two laptops, it either ran like crap, or not at all.

Ubuntu (Gnome) runs in all cases without trouble.

I think Kubuntu just sux as an OS. It is basically because Ubuntu is so Gnome centered that all of its software and everything about it assumes Gnome. Don't get me wrong, I wish Kubuntu were better so I can use KDE, but it is now, you basically never know when it will crash.

So much I can say to this...

1 - I've used Gnome for 5 years. While I like it, I think KDE is extremely solid and a VERY worthy competitor of Gnome.
2 - KDE was solid with 3.5, problematic with 4.0 due to a new set of coding, and got better with 4.2+. Everybody knows this.
3 - Your beloved Gnome is getting a major facelift in 8-10 months. Guess what? It'll most likely be in the same boat KDE was when it launched 4.0, also launching some unforeseen bugs with it as well, which is inevitable when launching a completely new codeset.
4 - I asked a question. You did not answer my question. You posted your opinion of a desktop environment which had zero relevance to my question at hand.
5 - Gnome developers actually PRAISED KDE with its 4.2 release, proving that not only can other desktop environments co-exist with good reason, but they actually respect one another.

So, no. KDE isn't horrible. Sorry you had bad luck, but it's not.

And also posing an opinion about problems with KDE/Karmic in general isn't such a wise idea, seeing as though Karmic in itself has a lot of problems - both in KDE and Gnome. I've installed Karmic 4 times on 4 machines (3 Ubuntu/Gnome, 1 KDE/Kubuntu). Guess how many had problems? All 4. I love Ubuntu, I really do, but Karmic wasn't really "all there" in general, so to pose an opinion against KDE in regard to Karmic isn't entirely accurate, in my opinion.

Would anybody else like to take a crack at answering my question?

3Miro
December 9th, 2009, 04:00 AM
I believe I did not express myself correctly and I am sorry if it seems that I was giving a KDE vs Gnome rant. I do believe currently KDE is far superior to Gnome (as I think the Gnome developers think since they are working hard to change that) and I do wish I could use KDE under Ubuntu without the many random bugs. It is not KDE that causes the problems, but the Gnome-centric nature of Ubuntu. When I was sharing my experience, I wanted to make the point that you might be a victim of a random KDE vs Ubuntu bug and there might be no solution to your problem.

In view of that, my answer to your questions is: Since KDE 4.2 is the official version for Jaunty, I don't think there will be an OFFICIAL guide on how to install KDE 4.3. I believe the official position would be to install Karmic.

I will leave your thread now and pollute it no more.

Roasted
December 9th, 2009, 06:17 AM
I believe I did not express myself correctly and I am sorry if it seems that I was giving a KDE vs Gnome rant. I do believe currently KDE is far superior to Gnome (as I think the Gnome developers think since they are working hard to change that) and I do wish I could use KDE under Ubuntu without the many random bugs. It is not KDE that causes the problems, but the Gnome-centric nature of Ubuntu. When I was sharing my experience, I wanted to make the point that you might be a victim of a random KDE vs Ubuntu bug and there might be no solution to your problem.

In view of that, my answer to your questions is: Since KDE 4.2 is the official version for Jaunty, I don't think there will be an OFFICIAL guide on how to install KDE 4.3. I believe the official position would be to install Karmic.

I will leave your thread now and pollute it no more.

My apologies for jumping down your throat, as it seems that wasn't your intention. I just have a very short fuse when people tend to bash other desktop environments, and I made the assumption (you know what they say about assuming...) that that was your motive. But, clearly, it wasn't - so my apologies! I just can't stand when things become KDE vs Gnome. That's not what Linux is about. Linux is about choice, and it's amazing that we even HAVE options available. Put it this way - we're all drinking beer, but not all the exact same kind. :)

So answer your question - no - I am not experiencing a random KDE bug. I had KDE 4.3.2 on this laptop with Jaunty 64 bit before. But I ended up redoing this laptop because I wanted my partitions to be set up differently afterwards, so I redid it. And here I am struggling again.

The problem is, I found several mini how-to guides on setting it up. Most of them are just blah blah PPA add it k do this aight done. Very vague, not that descriptive.

Fortunately, 4.2+ with KDE is actually very solid, which is what Jaunty ships with so I didn't really have any bugs that I saw. The only problem I had was what you see here with the update to 4.3.2 backfiring, but like I said I had it running before so now that it's giving me the finger I'm just trying to figure out what I can do.

Nonetheless, I reformatted it. After all, I redid the laptop last night, it's not like any data was on it so it wasn't a big deal to format again, besides the PITA it was. HOWEVER - If ANYBODY has any quick explanation on what I should have done to repair it, I'd like to know. Like if I log in to console with an internet connection, what do I do? What commands would I be best off running to re-gain my KDE desktop back?

Again, 3Miro, I apologize for barking at ya. And thanks for clarifying what your intention was so I better understood. :)

EDIT - Well I gave it another shot. It errored out halfway through. I can get into the GUI, though, but it has some weird things. For example, the background is like a white/gray tile checkerboard, and the task manager doesn't show my WICD icon properly, or my volume, or my notification icon - yet the desktop workspace switcher, clock, and show desktop are fine and functional.

I'm going to install Jaunty and stick with 4.2 that it shipped with. I just can't be formatting my system 7 times a day trying to get KDE 4.3.2 to work. I understand that it may be tricky considering I'm trying to dump a new version of a desktop environment on a system, but even still, I guess it really isn't worth it - unless somebody can fire out EXACT directions to how I could fire it up?

3Miro
December 9th, 2009, 04:35 PM
I am glad we managed to avoid turning this into a hate thread.

The only official KDE upgrade instructions that I have sees were for 4.2 on Intrepid. Ubuntu releases are in sync with Gnome, so the new KDE releases come in the middle. So unless the Kubuntu web-page/forum has something official, I don't think you will find anything.

Try Karmic, I was much happier with KDE 4.3 on Karmic then KDE 4.2 on Jaunty.

Roasted
December 9th, 2009, 04:57 PM
Well, there's several curve balls here:

Karmic has given me trouble on every computer I have ran it on. Ironically, it was all the same problem - Karmic was unable to properly utilize and detect my hard drives. I have 3 desktops I run *buntu on, two of which have 2 hard drives each, and my main rig that has 4 hard drives. So, Karmic wouldn't fly there.

But, wait - I'm on a laptop. One hard drive. Yes! I installed Kubuntu Karmic last week - every time I install the Broadcom STA wireless driver, it crashes. Just - bam. Crashes. Just like that.

Kubuntu Jaunty comes with that STA driver pre-installed. I mean, at least I didn't activate it or anything. It just appeared in hardware drivers already running. But I have to manually activate it in Karmic, which tanks.

So, even on my laptop with 1 hard drive, I'm stuck with Jaunty. But Jaunty is unusually solid for a 6 month release, in my opinion, so I'm VERY happy with it.

It's just frustrating. All of my Jaunty desktops are on 4.3.2, and I had this laptop on 4.3.2, but I tried Karmic, tanked, back to Jaunty, now I can't get 4.3.2 to work again. Gahh!

3Miro
December 9th, 2009, 10:37 PM
Activation of the driver crashed the system ... that is bad. You could try to install Karmic, then connect it with a wire, then upgrade the kernel (there have been at least 2 kernel upgrades since Karmic was released) and then try to install the driver. The newer kernel may handle it better.

I have a desktop that ran both Karmic Gnome and KDE with two HDDs, but no RAID. You could try to see if there are any specific RAID problems reported for the *buntus.

Another thing is to install Ubuntu Karmic (assuming only the Kubuntu version is bad) and then install KDE desktop. I did that on my laptop yesterday and now it runs rather well (I never managed to install kubuntu on it in the first place). I can now chose between Gnome and KDE (4.3.2 that is).

Roasted
December 10th, 2009, 08:47 PM
Activation of the driver crashed the system ... that is bad. You could try to install Karmic, then connect it with a wire, then upgrade the kernel (there have been at least 2 kernel upgrades since Karmic was released) and then try to install the driver. The newer kernel may handle it better.

I have a desktop that ran both Karmic Gnome and KDE with two HDDs, but no RAID. You could try to see if there are any specific RAID problems reported for the *buntus.

Another thing is to install Ubuntu Karmic (assuming only the Kubuntu version is bad) and then install KDE desktop. I did that on my laptop yesterday and now it runs rather well (I never managed to install kubuntu on it in the first place). I can now chose between Gnome and KDE (4.3.2 that is).

I could try that, but I really doubt the "KDE Version" is bad. I mean, we're talking about desktop environments and drivers. I really doubt the desktop environment would play a factor in a driver crashing a system. However, I have a backup image of my install of Kubuntu that I made just last night, so I can screw around with it all I want and I'm all right. :)

So I'll install Karmic Kubuntu again and see if it backfires. Also - I forget if I was, but I would have HAD to be plugged in via wire in order to get the wireless driver, so I'm sure I was plugged in initially when I ran into this problem. If the system doesn't crash, then it's an indication I had a broken install and/or I did something wrong from the get-go, but it was a fresh install, just like any other install, so I don't really know where I would have backfired - but who knows!

Secondly I'll also try Karmic Ubuntu and see if I can install the Broadcom driver there as you suggested, then we'll see how it takes to that.

I'll post back whenever I find the answers. Thanks for the informative post!

Roasted
December 11th, 2009, 05:14 AM
All right, so we got somewhere today.

I installed Kubuntu 9.10. Installed Broadcom STA driver, froze instantly. Powered off, booted back up, kernel panic. Black screen, 1 line of white text, saying


[ 2.661324] Kernel Panic - not syncing : VFS : Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0.0)


So, I install Ubuntu 9.10. Installed Broadcom STA driver. Did not freeze. Went to reboot as suggested by driver installation, and the reboot hung with a strange error message across my screen. All black, white text, with a ton of stuff that was clearly error-related. Powered off, booted back up, wireless seemed to work despite that weird instance.


Then I took your suggestion:

Installed Kubuntu 9.10. Plugged in wired ethernet. Fully updated system, patching from kernel .14 to .16. Rebooted. Installed Broadcom STA driver. No problems. Rebooted. Connected to my WPA2 network. No problems. Rebooted again. Re-connected to my WPA2 network as expected.



This is the first computer I have installed Karmic on where, despite having weird issues in the beginning, is now fully running. Wow. I only tried Karmic (both gnome and kde) on about 6 computers with weird issues on each one, but hey, it works here so I'll continue using it!

Thanks for the suggestion bro!

3Miro
December 11th, 2009, 03:24 PM
Nice, good to know it is working for you.

There is one other thing that you can try on your other computers (or in general). That is: install Ubuntu 9.10 with Gnome and then install the kde-desktop package. It costs you about 700MB - 1GB of extra space, but that way you get both KDE and Gnome on the same machine. I did that on my laptop the other day and now I have both, while initially Kubuntu would not even install.

Roasted
December 11th, 2009, 03:52 PM
If I install "kde-desktop", when I'm on Karmic, does it pull 4.3.2?

Same question, but on Jaunty, does it pull 4.2.2?

I'm still learning what default versions of KDE shipped with the versions of *buntu.

Also - As time goes on in between releases, do KDE updates come down automatically? Like if Karmic ships with 4.3.2, but 4.3.3 comes out, will automatic updates bring it down for me, or does that require a backport PPA?

3Miro
December 12th, 2009, 02:11 AM
If I install "kde-desktop", when I'm on Karmic, does it pull 4.3.2?

Same question, but on Jaunty, does it pull 4.2.2?

I'm still learning what default versions of KDE shipped with the versions of *buntu.

Also - As time goes on in between releases, do KDE updates come down automatically? Like if Karmic ships with 4.3.2, but 4.3.3 comes out, will automatic updates bring it down for me, or does that require a backport PPA?

Good questions.

I did not try this under Jaunty, but Karmic pulls KDE 4.3.2. I suppose it uses the latest available for that version of *buntu. I would assume that if 4.3.3 comes out and if it is added to Kubuntu, it will also be added to Ubuntu. This is only an assumption, so far I have only gotten a few bugs and security updates for KDE.

For KDE, often the latest release is not immediately available. It takes time or they just wait for a new version of *buntu to add the new features.