Help me settle a debate with a Micosoft bigot friend of mine?

[brucewagner]

Anyone have any idea how I can find out how many of the top 100 or 200 websites use Linux versus Microsoft to run their websites...?

[coffeeaddict22]

Hi,
You can't. Have a look at this article. (http://blog.eracc.com/2009/07/24/linux-and-unix-uptime-vs-microsoft-on-netcraft/)

[b0b138]

google web server statistics... first link www.netcraft.com

[running_rabbit07]

Doesn't Microsoft use Ubuntu Server for their serving needs?:P

[running_rabbit07]

google web server statistics... first link www.netcraft.com (http://www.netcraft.com)

Great article.

[wilee-nilee]

Tell him to avoid google if he doesn't like Linux. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_platform About 75% of the worlds super computers run a variation of linux and a large portion of the severs for the web about 60%, I am not sure of the exact operating systems. Unix and Linux basically seem to be the backbone MS stands on so to speak. Here is another link. http://linux.web.cern.ch/linux/ Kind of hard to be watching for viri, rootkits, malware---etc when your smashing particles at the speed of light eh.

[Paqman]

It's not secret that Linux is massive on servers, if your friend suggests otherwise, then it's him who needs to prove it to you, not otherwise. The majority of the internet runs on some kind of *nix, with Linux making up a pretty healthy percentage of that. Windows is well down the list, although they do alright as a minor player.

[Paqman]

Doesn't Microsoft use Ubuntu Server for their serving needs?:P

I doubt it.

[wilee-nilee]

It's not secret that Linux is massive on servers, if your friend suggests otherwise, then it's him who needs to prove it to you, not otherwise. The majority of the internet runs on some kind of *nix, with Linux making up a pretty healthy percentage of that. Windows is well down the list, although they do alright as a minor player.

It is funny that most desktop users don't know this probably, if people knew what we open source people generally know they would get rid of the problematic software and have a good nights sleep. That being said MS, Apple and all the variations of nix have a place and are quite safe to use if you can avoid the social engineering part of the main desktop provider.

[Paqman]

if people knew what we open source people generally know they would get rid of the problematic software and have a good nights sleep.

Actually I think you'll find most people really don't care, and are quite happy with desktop Windows. What OS a server uses doesn't matter in the slightest to an end user, as long as it serves up pages, which Windows machines do perfectly well. Hell, some Windows servers even use WAMP, making the functional difference between them and a LAMP box zero from the user's point of view. The only people that really need to give two hoots about what OS a server runs is the people employed to maintain them.

[Old_Gray_Wolf]

Doesn't Microsoft use Ubuntu Server for their serving needs?:P

According to the Firefox add-on "Server Spy", Microsoft.com uses Microsoft IIS/7.5.

[falconindy]

google web server statistics... first link www.netcraft.com
Apache runs on both Windoze and *nix. Netcraft makes no distinction here. I was surprised at how much of the market is brave enough to run IIS.

[Devon64327]

It doesnt matter what servers on the Internet run Linux. what matters is the desktops.
Ur trying to convince him so I'll only give positives about Linux starting with the obvious its free, its open source so you can help develop it, it uses gnome/etc. so you can customize pretty much everything, it's not microsoft, It's infinitely smaller and more effecient on my system, it looks cool, its free and you dont have to buy from micrsoft :)

-Edit-
Ok servers are important im sorry if that offends anyone. To his friend servers are not important, to everyone else in the world they are life >.<

[running_rabbit07]

I doubt it.

According to the Firefox add-on "Server Spy", Microsoft.com uses Microsoft IIS/7.5.

I figured by having a smiley there, people would see the sarcasm in my post. "Got Humor?"

[aesis05401]

According to the Firefox add-on "Server Spy", Microsoft.com uses Microsoft IIS/7.5.

For a long time microsoft domains identified themselves as running linux because the anti-DDOS technology they used was linux based. More entertainingly - there was a time that you could get microsoft.com to report that it was running IIS on linux. I guess those days are over.

[juancarlospaco]

Bing runs on Linux.

[toupeiro]

Bing runs on Linux.

This thread is losing more and more credibility by the minute.

[aysiu]

Actually I think you'll find most people really don't care, and are quite happy with desktop Windows. So does "quite happy with" mean they'll stop asking for help when they have Windows problems? If so, then I have to disagree with you based on personal experiences with friends, family members, and co-workers.

If "quite happy with" means Windows comes on the computer they bought, is an operating system "everyone else" is using, and runs iTunes, then I'll agree with you fully, but I'd probably phrase it differently: "quite dependent on" or "quite afraid to leave."

[Dr. C]

This thread is losing more and more credibility by the minute.

Actually it is well known that Microsoft hides servers behind GNU / Linux firewalls to protected them from attack.

According to Netcraft (http://searchdns.netcraft.com/?restriction=site+contains&host=bing.com) the OS for www.bing.com is Linux. One can suspect that what we have here in reality is Windows Servers protected by a GNU / Linux firewall from the nasty things on the Internet.

[norm7446]

Get your friend to watch these video's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-8IufkbuD0&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cX4t5-YpHQ

Then ask him " Do you still think Windows is better......... "

[norm7446]

If he still says NO...

Then get him to estimate how much it would cost him to run the OS with all the fancy Extras as shown in this video, under Windows. Then tell him that you could run it as it is shown on your Existing system,,, OOPS was that his jaw just smashing of the Floor. Linux RULES OK.................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8unULpT628&feature=related

[Exodist]

Actually I think you'll find most people really don't care, and are quite happy with desktop Windows.
At one point I would have to had agreed with you. But lately even without my intervention I have been noticing that most people and families have been slowly getting more frustrated with their PCs over all performance. They know its spyware and viruses, they just cant spend a hour waiting for the PC to boot then to just not have much a clue how to clean most of it up. Most even run an active Norton or Macaffe AVS.
They mention to me with frustrated look, "Can you help me? All I want to do is check email, digital camera photos, ebay and play solitare." I mention I can install Linux and they are like. "Whats That", Can it help me. So I explain blah blah blah.. They are normally over all happy with the change.

[juancarlospaco]

This thread is losing more and more credibility by the minute.

Scan them, you would see that Microsoft is using Linux,
Bing runs on Linux.

[PrePenguin]

Most people dont care and they have no interest in getting on Linux and programming or using Command lines they simply want to start a computer up and write e-mail, Browse the web or plug in a Camera and it work. Linux is ok for the technically enthused with time on there hands to play with an OS but most people are more interested in just using it to do work that will pay there mortgage and feed there families and quite frankly linux isnt even in the same class as windows as far as desktops go and never will be. It lacks any kind or organization it has little profit other then support based profits. Linux is not mainstream if it was you would see more virus', malware, etc. all taking target on it to and i dont wanna hear by nature and cause of root its safer it can all be circumvented with some effort. So while i like linux because i like to play with coding and with computers in general 95% of the rest of the world does not. Also Servers on most platforms run well because they are non graphical interfaced with most and dont consume the resources needed for desktops. So all the MS bashing is being nieve and untruthful to themselves and to others. Linux is free thats a good thing however this comes at a cost of no support or if you purchase business support option.. However you have 50 different Distro's little organization besides techies working for free or little profit just so thay can say they dont use microsoft. Linux is far from trouble free and has major problems of its own and there no shareholders or investors that linux has to answer to other then distro's that offer support only. The reason linux will be stuck where its at is plain and simple its a financial decision. NO ONE IS GOING TO INVEST IN something they cant make money from so linux will never be organized unless theres away to make profitable and u can only do that by CHARGING people something. So while people on linux like to bash MS atleast be honest and fair in your assessment it sure makes you look less like a zealot and much more credible.

[beercz]

http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/

[Frak]

http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/
http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-linux-is-not-bettercom.html (NSFW)

If you're talking about web servers, Linux is a really good choice. BSD is even better in my opinion.

As for those that are saying bing runs on Linux, you're hitting the reverse proxy. The reverse proxy is running a modified version of RedHat (if I recall correctly) at the moment. Microsoft took care to make sure that Bing doesn't send header information that could cause security problems, for that reason, it doesn't serve headers that identify the OS type nor HTTP server type.

[Exodist]

http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-linux-is-not-bettercom.html


Wow the guy that did that blog spot is a dumass.

Ignorance must be bliss!

[Frak]

Wow the guy that did that blog spot is a dumass.

Ignorance must be bliss!
When people make the same arguments about Microsoft, they're amazing writers.

Oh the irony!

[running_rabbit07]

Wow the guy that did that blog spot is a dumass.

Ignorance must be bliss!

+1

I think Frak is wrong. Why, well, the blog was full of lies. Like the one about, "why install more programs after the OS is installed? Duh.. they can't package it all." Duh, what do you do when you are done with installing Windows? You start installing the other programs you need.

Yes, if a Linux fan (Notice I didn't say zealot) were to do an anti-Windows campeign, I would say the same thing. I don't like it when people have to tell lies to bring down another.

[RiceMonster]

All I have to say is if LHB pissed you off, it's met it's goal. I like reading it, personally. Some of the criticisms are valid points, and some of it is funny.

[Dayofswords]

I doubt it.

i was on this one site that detects the server os of web sites, cant remember name, i looked up Microsoft, all Microsoft ran parts was windows, parts ran by affiliates, linux/unix

i think it was that netcraft site

PLUS, they own the source of their server os, they can adjust at will

[Frak]

All I have to say is if LHB pissed you off, it's met it's goal. I like reading it, personally. Some of the criticisms are valid points, and some of it is funny.
+1

And I like to see the responses to it. OMG, UR RONG SIR! Anyways, you shouldn't be calling your friend a bigot when a lot of people here prescribe to the same manner. In many ways, you're the pot calling the kettle black.

[Khakilang]

After 20 years with Microsoft from DOS to Windows and after I jump over to Linux, I still don't hate them. Its just what I need for my work. No point spending time hating. I just choose what I want whether free or no free software. As long as my computer is working and I don't have to throw away. I am happy.

[Dullstar]

It's sad that Windows fanboys try to put down Linux users with a bunch of lies. When trying to detach someone from their operating system, tell the truth. It will get you much farther. Is the best they can do is call us "lusers"? Come on, they can't even spell what they use to try to put us down?

I posted this anonymously on that site:

I have used both. What do you mean, Linux can't do anything? I have used both Linux and Windows, and I have compared their functions. There are only two things I need to do that Linux can't do... make that one. No, uh, make that zero, because I think they are supposed to be workable in WINE easily, but I haven't tried them yet.

No one on this site can spell the word "loser?" Sad, it just shows how stupid Windows zealots can be. And they say Linux zealots are bad. Comparing and contrasting reveals that the Windows ones are much more nasty.

Oh, by the way, without a virus, my Windows would crash a ridiculous number of times a day, which is why I considered Linux.Posting it under my Internet meme there seemed like a bad idea, but this isn't a bad place to put it.

[RiceMonster]

It's sad that Windows fanboys try to put down Linux users with a bunch of lies. When trying to detach someone from their operating system, tell the truth. It will get you much farther. Is the best they can do is call us "lusers"? Come on, they can't even spell what they use to try to put us down?

I posted this anonymously on that site:

Posting it under my Internet meme there seemed like a bad idea, but this isn't a bad place to put it.

I refer you to my post (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=8126506&postcount=30) again. Notably the first sentence.

[Frak]

I refer you to my post (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=8126506&postcount=30) again.

Nice find.

[running_rabbit07]

Though I throw my opinions in, I don't get mad at that stuff. People will use what they want. That'd be like getting mad at the Chevy commercials that say they have the toughest truck because I drive a Ford truck.(Not)

[cprofitt]

Scan them, you would see that Microsoft is using Linux,
Bing runs on Linux.

Actually they might just have it responding 'like' Linux. You can craft how your server responds so that scanners mis-detect the OS.

Not saying they do that, but it is possible.

[Exodist]

M$ just bought BING not to long ago. Its very possible they havent even moved the service over to their windows servers yet.

But if we are lucky BING will fall into the pits of hell and burn forever. We got enough useless garbage on the internet to bother us as it is.

[Frak]

M$ just bought BING not to long ago. Its very possible they havent even moved the service over to their windows servers yet.

But if we are lucky BING will fall into the pits of hell and burn forever. We got enough useless garbage on the internet to bother us as it is.
Or just not use it. There are more peaceful alternatives.

[Icehuck]

M$ just bought BING not to long ago. Its very possible they havent even moved the service over to their windows servers yet.

But if we are lucky BING will fall into the pits of hell and burn forever. We got enough useless garbage on the internet to bother us as it is.

Except Bing is Windows Live search re-branded, and was developed by Microsoft. Also they use some tech from Powerset

[Frak]

Except Bing is Windows Live search re-branded, and was developed by Microsoft. Also they use some tech from Powerset
They don't just use Powerset, they OWN Powerset.

[Khakilang]

I just show my fren my notebook with Ubuntu Linux and compare with his new notebook with Vista. We place side by side and surf several website and he was impressive with the performance. He was even amaze when he found out the hardware I am using is Pentium M 1.6GHz, 512MB RAM and only 20GB hard disk compare to his Core2 Duo with 3GB RAM and 320GB hard disk and the performance is only a tad slower than his and for the price he is paying for the notebook. Only he would have meet up with me earlier..:(

[murderslastcrow]

*ahem* What's Windows, and who's "Micosoft?" People seem to be getting awfully upset over it, regardless.

[Paqman]

If "quite happy with" means Windows comes on the computer they bought, is an operating system "everyone else" is using, and runs iTunes, then I'll agree with you fully, but I'd probably phrase it differently: "quite dependent on" or "quite afraid to leave."

That's probably an accurate description of a lot of users, yes. I was of course generalising, but functionally the two things amount to the same thing: inertia.

We're also veering off-topic, as the OP was talking about servers.

[Exodist]

Except Bing is Windows Live search re-branded, and was developed by Microsoft. Also they use some tech from Powerset

My bad, I was under the impression they bought the company and did away with Windows Live in favor of Bing. Either way I hate Bing with a passion.

[tcoffeep]

For everyone who gets that elitist satisfaction from saying Microsoft runs Linux on their servers, calm down a bit : http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/08/17/wwwmicrosoftcom_runs_linux_up_to_a_point_.html ... and this is from 2003.

Akamai provides an internet-wide caching system, which can act as a symmetric defence to distributed denial of service attacks.

[...]

Many web forums, including those at Anandtech and Slashdot are discussing the irony of the www.microsoft.com site apparently running Linux. Additionally, we are seeing a quantity of mail asking why we are reporting www.microsoft.com running the “impossible” combination of the Linux operating system and Microsoft-IIS/6.0 web server.

When we request www.microsoft.com the DNS directs us to a server operated by Akamai. If you repeat this test, note that the actual Akamai server you connect to will differ according to your location on the internet and may vary from request to request. Akamai’s http caching servers run Linux, and so we report Linux as the operating system. However Akamai also forwards the http Server: header from the original server as part of the cached content, and so we report “Microsoft-IIS/6.0” as the web server.


Ok. So, now we know. Windows runs Microsoft servers. Akamai runs linux. Akamai is just a wall against DDoS attacks. Akamai is being the one reported, not the actual site (including bing). This was reported in 2003. It's not ironic anymore. Let's drop it now.

[t0p]

Ok. So, now we know. Windows runs Microsoft servers. Akamai runs linux. Akamai is just a wall against DDoS attacks. Akamai is being the one reported, not the actual site (including bing). This was reported in 2003. It's not ironic anymore. Let's drop it now.

Sorry, but I still find it amusing that Microsoft would (indirectly) use Linux instead of their own software. Why does Akamai use Linux? Because it's better than the Microsoft alternative? I mean, surely there must be Microsoft product that could provide a "wall against ddos attacks"? But Microsoft would rather employ a company that uses Linux. It's the only way for them to get peace of mind I suppose.

[K.Mandla]

Sorry, but I still find it amusing that Microsoft would (indirectly) use Linux instead of their own software. Why does Akamai use Linux? Because it's better than the Microsoft alternative? I mean, surely there must be Microsoft product that could provide a "wall against ddos attacks"? But Microsoft would rather employ a company that uses Linux. It's the only way for them to get peace of mind I suppose.
I have to agree. It was ironic in 2003, it's all the more ironic that six years later, the situation is unchanged. It might be a cheap giggle to think that Microsoft relies on another company -- a company that relies on Linux -- to provide that "wall," but until that situation changes, I'll keep laughing at it.

[pwnst*r]

I figured by having a smiley there, people would see the sarcasm in my post. "Got Humor?"

oh. it just wasn't funny.

[running_rabbit07]

oh. it just wasn't funny.


...

[Regenweald]

A guy likes windows, now he's a bigot. Some terms get thrown around real loosely in here. Wonder what you would do if you met a real life one ? Don't apply such heavy terms to software. It belies how little you know of the real world.

[Frak]

A guy likes windows, now he's a bigot. Some terms get thrown around real loosely in here. Wonder what you would do if you met a real life one ? Don't apply such heavy terms to software. It belies how little you know of the real world.
+1

"I like Windows." UR A NUBCAKE.

[tcoffeep]

What happens if someone likes Windows and Linux?

They're a traitor to free software? Or does that only apply to devs?

[Frak]

What happens if someone likes Windows and Linux?

They're a traitor to free software? Or does that only apply to devs?
Death by software castration: They take away make, all the gnu compiler tools, and cp.

[tcoffeep]

Death by software castration: They take away make, all the gnu compiler tools, and cp.

Then I shall migrate to plan9 before they castrate me!

[baceman007]

I like this statistic the best. Basically it states that 85% of super computers use Linux, if you add other forms of Unix, and if you really want to stretch and pretend that OSXcrament hasn't been polluted enough by CrApple to be considered Unix, then basically you can safely add at lest another 4 percent (a rough estimate). So let's just say that somewhere between 86% and 90% of people getting real work done with computers are using Unix, and most of them are using GNU/Linux. In general Microsoft is the irresponsible choice when it comes to computing, with CrApple as a close second, especially when it comes to super computing.

http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/News/Top-500-85-Percent-of-all-Super-Computers-Runs-on-Linux/(kategorie)/0

[Frak]

I like this statistic the best. Basically it states that 85% of super computers use Linux, if you add other forms of Unix, and if you really want to stretch and pretend that OSXcrament hasn't been polluted enough by CrApple to be considered Unix, then basically you can safely add at lest another 4 percent (a rough estimate). So let's just say that somewhere between 86% and 90% of people getting real work done with computers are using Unix, and most of them are using GNU/Linux. In general Microsoft is the irresponsible choice when it comes to computing, with CrApple as a close second, especially when it comes to super computing.

http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/News/Top-500-85-Percent-of-all-Super-Computers-Runs-on-Linux/(kategorie)/0

Super computer != Desktop, nor does that show that Microsoft or Apple are bad companies nor make bad products. Linux just happens to be within a certain niche that makes it perfect for super computing.

[tcoffeep]

Super computer != Desktop, nor does that show that Microsoft or Apple are bad companies nor make bad products. Linux just happens to be within a certain niche that makes it perfect for super computing.

My desktop computer is just super, tyvm. so you're wrong

[Frak]

My desktop computer is just super, tyvm. so you're wrong
Does it wear underpants outside of it's regular pants?

[tcoffeep]

Does it wear underpants outside of it's regular pants?

more than that, it can perform rent with no background music or costumes

[Frak]

more than that, it can perform rent with no background music or costumes
I'd pay a dollar to see that.

[jwbrase]

Oh, by the way, without a virus, my Windows would crash a ridiculous number of times a day, which is why I considered Linux.

Actually, in my experience that particular argument is as old as when Windows zealots say "In Linux you have to do everything at the terminal, I wan't an OS where I can do everything in the GUI".

I would actually say that XP is more stable than Ubuntu 8.10 or 9.04. Not by much, as both XP and Ubuntu are very reliable, but enough that I've noticed. However, Ubuntu can recover a lot more gracefully (you have a lot more options for dealing with misbehaving programs, from System monitor, to switching to a tty and using kill, to using ctrl-alt-backspace, to the magic SysReq key, to a hard reboot, with Windows, AFAIK, you can attempt to bring up task manager and kill the program, and if that doesn't work, you have no option but a hard reboot). And Ubuntu is much, much, much more stable than Windows 9x, which Microsoft has improved upon, but for which they have yet to apologize.

But while stability is a deal-breaker if it's too low, Ubuntu's stability is more than acceptable, and it has lots of attractive features to go with it. And you don't get that dirty feeling from having touched a Microsoft product either. (Seriously, one of the big things that drove me to Linux was not so much that it is superior performance wise (though it is very definitely competitive), but that it has a great deal of moral superiority, given Microsoft's business practices. Windows (XP at least) is acceptable for me. Microsoft is not.)

[Old_Gray_Wolf]

I figured by having a smiley there, people would see the sarcasm in my post. "Got Humor?"

I got the humor!

However, the Op wanted information about the server software websites used. Not only did I provide some information regarding what Microsoft uses, I also provided information about a plug-in the OP could use to collect information supporting an argument. I don't know what logic the OP is using, I was just trying to provide a method for the OP to collect some useful data to support the OP's position.

[tcoffeep]

I'd pay a dollar to see that.

I charge three times that per show.

[MarcusW]

A guy likes windows, now he's a bigot. Some terms get thrown around real loosely in here. Wonder what you would do if you met a real life one ? Don't apply such heavy terms to software. It belies how little you know of the real world.

Maybe there's more to it, ever consider that his friend may have said more things than just "I like windows."?

[Tristam Green]

Maybe there's more to it, ever consider that his friend may have said more things than just "I like windows."?

Even if the verbatim words out of his mouth were "I like Windows, I cannot stand Linux, I find it to be utter crap; a pox on Linux", he's still not a bigot :|

[m4tic]

NASA.gov runs Linux for all their servers. Well why wouldn't i want to experience some of the power they use?