PDA

View Full Version : Support fee for Ubuntu



InfoTech
February 13th, 2006, 07:43 PM
A quick question. Is it legal to charge a fee for:
- installing Ubuntu;
- training users on Ubuntu and
- giving support to companies without Linux admins.

As I understood GPL, under which Ubuntu is distributed, it is. Still, I want to start a bussines that will do a/m things, but it seems that in my country that would cause legal problems.

Is there a contact person anywhere who can give me specific rights to do that, as long as i comply to GPL? In my country it is hard to grasp that there might be something offered for free. Attorney even suggested that if I charge for installation from CDs that I bring with me, it is "selling software", while it is legal to install form CDs that client downloaded.

So, according to all this, I need a written authorisation from 'producer of the work' to perform a/m actions.

Am I crazy, stupid, or what???

hscottyh
February 13th, 2006, 07:59 PM
Don't know what country your in..... and I'm no lawer; but, the GPL allows for doing exactly what your talking about.

InfoTech
February 13th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Well, this is a crazy country. Problem is that the law on copyright took effect since 01/01/2006 and there is A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of pirated software here and people do not know for 'the middle'. Everything is either free or it is not. And now is the latest :) . And they do not accept Internet web site as legal document, regardles of how stupid this sounds. So, I would really appreciate if somebody from "Ubuntu" would be so kind to give me a written permit to do installation, education and maintenance of the Ubuntu distro.
I believe it is not necessary to mention that my sincere intent is to donate certain percentage from my fees to the Ubuntu development and to support in other ways, incl. 'spreading the word'.
Thanks
Veselin

briancurtin
February 14th, 2006, 09:11 AM
does your country have a name?

InfoTech
February 14th, 2006, 09:32 AM
It does. Montenegro. Part of Serbia and Montenegro state union.

theturner
March 5th, 2006, 03:34 AM
Even selling the software is alright according to the GPL, as long as you deliver the source code with it and grant your clients the same rights. So you should have no problems.

aysiu
March 5th, 2006, 03:40 AM
Canonical itself charges for Ubuntu support:
http://www.ubuntu.com/support/supportoptions/paidsupport

InfoTech
March 7th, 2006, 09:33 AM
Shure, I understand that. But they actually distribute Ubuntu, don't they? I am so positive I am right, but the question is how I can ensure some 'hardworking' inspection do not ask me for a permission from a 'producer' or 'owner' of the distro to support the product? :)

aysiu
March 7th, 2006, 05:48 PM
From Ubuntu's website (http://www.ubuntu.com/support/supportoptions) (my emphasis added):
Paid support is provided by Canonical Limited and other companies. We encourage other companies to join us in providing paid support for Ubuntu. Please see the Ubuntu Marketplace for more information and a list of providers.

DrFunkenstein
March 7th, 2006, 05:58 PM
Of course you are free to offer payed support.
If you want to be sure, contact canonical, there are now a lot of companies offering support for ubuntu:
http://www.ubuntu.com/support/marketplace

towsonu2003
March 7th, 2006, 05:59 PM
being from a similar crazy country (which started to impose its ip laws like a puppet), you basically need an official-looking fax or a letter from somewhere official? I would email Mark Shuttleworth and ask for such a letter/fax...

KingBahamut
March 7th, 2006, 06:01 PM
My company, http://gwos.org, supports, installs, and maintains ubuntu systems for the customers that we develop for. So yes, It is legal to do so. Service driven industries are like that.

az
March 9th, 2006, 04:02 PM
I wrote a wiki page about this topic a few weeks ago.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum/software/OpenSource/MakeMoneyHowto

It's a great question.


A quick question. Is it legal to charge a fee for:
- installing Ubuntu;
- training users on Ubuntu and
- giving support to companies without Linux admins.
???

Some people think that selling a computer without windows on it is illegal. That is completely false and may lead people to question the ethics of free-libre software. It is completely legal to install and run Ubuntu as well as to redistribute it, so long as you respect the conditions of the GPL, which simply says that the sofware is not property and that the source code should be made available.

Nothing in the GPL (which is the agreement under which the software is distributed from all of it's authors to you) prevents you from changing for the services you mention. In fact, it is encouraged. Professional services and support are the free-libre software business model.

I was just told today by a representative from the WorldHeart company (they make artificial hearts) that to comply with FDA standards, the laptop which runs a monitor for the heart's controller must run a Microsofts OS. This is untrue. The FDA requires that the OS be *supported* and the WorldHeart company would have no trouble at all finding a company to support a linux platform for their device. No trouble whatsoever.

In fact, one of microsoft's arguments against free-libre software is that it is unsupported. Again, I am certain that none of the fortune five-hundred companies in the US would have any trouble finding a company to support a migration from Microsoft to free-libre software.

It's a pretty competitive market.




As I understood GPL, under which Ubuntu is distributed, it is. Still, I want to start a bussines that will do a/m things, but it seems that in my country that would cause legal problems.


I am unaware of the specific business practices that you think would break laws in your country. From the end of the distributer of the software, it couln't be any clearer that you are entitled to redistribute and support the software for a fee, so long as you respect the GPL's requirements. You would have to consider speaking with a lawyer from your country.

Open source, free-libre software licencing is *simpler* than proprietary licencing. In the windows world, if you don't read the fine print, you can be changed extra for certain things. In the free-libre world, if it is GPL'ed, you are good to go. Simple.



Is there a contact person anywhere who can give me specific rights to do that, as long as i comply to GPL? In my country it is hard to grasp that there might be something offered for free. Attorney even suggested that if I charge for installation from CDs that I bring with me, it is "selling software", while it is legal to install form CDs that client downloaded.

So, according to all this, I need a written authorisation from 'producer of the work' to perform a/m actions.???

It's all in the GPL. It's not that the software is given for free - it is free-libre in that it is *everybody's* property. The principle of copyleft is that software is not something that should be owned by one person. You cannot take possesion of an idea. That doesn't mean you can't take credit for it, but the software itself is not someone else's property. It is a basic tenet in programming to reuse code. You are fully allowed to reuse the code that is distributed under the GPL.

If bringing your own cd to a client is considered selling it, though, is it illegal to sell software in your country?



Am I crazy, stupid, or what???

No, it's a really good and important question.

InfoTech
March 13th, 2006, 12:07 AM
Ok, I am really pleased that it appears that I am right. Which I thought I was, so it is no surprise :)
Still, just to make couple of points:
- First of all, I am an IT person, not a lawyer.
- Second, it was (almost) "legal" in my country to deal with piratised software. There where stores where you could by Windows for 5EUR, or even worse, AutoCAD for same amount.
- After strong pressure from MS it seems that a/m practice is about to stop. At least announcements from the government here are that as or 01/05/2006 there will be severe penalties for anyone selling, using, etc. software without license, since there is law in action as of 01/01/2006.
- Apart from local ISP and couple of University servers, I doubt that there is 5 more companies using Linux. People in my country are not aware of free software, open source, etc. And I am not talking only about people that are far from IT, I am talking about 90% of population, or even more.
- My idea was to support legalization (and the economy, because we are not wealthy country) by providing professional service to the GNU/Linux. So, I contacted and attorney, asking for a counsel regarding starting business, or "registering the company" (it is not a piece of cake around here, and I am IT, not a lawyer :o) ), so he asked me what I am going to do and after I explained, he said that 'it is illegal' and a pile of things that I would call crap :)
So, just to be on a safe side, regarding ignorant, stupid or uninformed government official inquiring for my 'license' for what I am doing, I guess I would draft an email to Mr. Shuttleworth asking for a fax explaining what GPL is, or at least allowing me to do the a/m with Ubuntu.

I believe that towsonu2003 understands what I am talking about :)
Anyway, wanting to be on a safe side, do I respect GPL if I, after installing GPLed OS (Ubuntu for e.g.) give an install CD (which I downloaded or got via ShipIT) - guess that source code is included there? Or is it just sufficient to inform ppl that they can find source code (or even download the CD iso) on (or from) the Internet?

And, just a remark-
Since I am postgraduate student in IT, and in my country one must publish certain number of 'papers' on various scientific conferences, I did one comparing open source software with proprietary one. Namely GNU/Linux, Open Office, GIMP vs. MS Windows, MS Office and Adobe Photoshop. I was very pleased with interest that this issue created. In the room there where like 30 people and 20 CDs of Ubuntu I got from the ShipIT where taken in 2 minutes :) I also distributed some flyers I printed regarding Ubuntu.

I just started using Ubuntu 3 months ago, and I already love it. Trying my best to support the community and will try harder. "I believe that is a beginning of a beautiful friendship".
Regards

towsonu2003
March 13th, 2006, 12:42 AM
I believe that towsonu2003 understands what I am talking about :)
looking at the background info you gave, oh yea, I know what's going on there. also, it seems we passed a similar law at the same date, but I doubt it's gonna work. I dont understand non-american governments supporting american corporations... anyway. toghether with a fax, ask him to send you the document in the mail as well (if your mail system works better than ours that is). my country is unstable, in that they will accept a fax one day, and won't accept it the next day.


Anyway, wanting to be on a safe side, do I respect GPL if I, after installing GPLed OS (Ubuntu for e.g.) give an install CD (which I downloaded or got via ShipIT) - guess that source code is included there?
source code isn't in the CD. some distros provide it as separate CDs, but ubuntu doesn't... I think directing them to the ubuntu website is enough. they can find a way to get it from there. though they won't even try it ;)