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maxdevis
February 12th, 2006, 08:05 PM
could anybody give me some arguments so my sister (linux-nOOb) chooses Ubuntu in stead of Suse? (she likes the Suse-icon) :p

bluevoodoo1
February 12th, 2006, 08:08 PM
Well the great community support at ubuntuforums.org of course!

vampaz
February 12th, 2006, 08:13 PM
SuSE (at least Suse10) is a litle buggy.A example:two hours to set up windows network printers in linux an 2 minutes after a fresh install in ubuntu.Ubuntu rules..\\:D/

Adrian
February 12th, 2006, 08:29 PM
could anybody give me some arguments so my sister (linux-nOOb) chooses Ubuntu in stead of Suse? (she likes the Suse-icon) :p

I like SUSE a lot, and its KDE desktop is the best (personal preference, of course) that I have tried. Don't know about Gnome though, because I've never tried it myself. I've heard a lot of people saying that Ubuntu's Gnome is better.

The best thing about Ubuntu according to me is the community. These forums are a great resource, and I really appreciate the "Ubuntu mentality".

zxee
February 12th, 2006, 08:39 PM
I started with SuSE over six years ago. It's a good distro and I can see it's appeal for some, but debian based has a wider availability of applications and upgrade choices. I experiment/check out distros and I couldn't actually install suse 10.1 although that was a beta release. For someone new to linux, ubuntu does a lot of things right. Finally have your sister take a look at the mission statement of ubuntu and compare it to what suse stands for.

jeffc313
February 12th, 2006, 09:12 PM
install ubuntu for her, change the backgroudn to the suse lizzard. best of both worlds. lol

shamrock_uk
February 12th, 2006, 09:39 PM
I installed Suse 10 not long ago having heard so many things about it, but I had a torrid time frankly.

I couldn't get into kde from kdm for some reason, I could drop to a terminal and run startx but that was it. Constant crashing of certain elements of kicker, more clunky package management and having to go through the process of removing and upgrading all their multimedia apps meant that it wasn't much of a competition. Ubuntu is still my current favourite distro.

briancurtin
February 12th, 2006, 10:03 PM
i never once had a problem with SuSE 9.3 or 10.0. great distro, i just found things that work a bit better for me.

Sp@z
February 12th, 2006, 10:43 PM
I wouldn't say that SUSE 10.0 is exactly N00b friendly. It actually hated me, I joinded some suse forums and posted a simple "Hello" post and well the community over there didn't exactly greet me with open arms, nor did they shun me, but these forums and the ubuntu community is much more helpful. I eventually gave up suse and came back to ubuntu....

briancurtin
February 12th, 2006, 10:46 PM
I wouldn't say that SUSE 10.0 is exactly N00b friendly. It actually hated me, I joinded some suse forums and posted a simple "Hello" post and well the community over there didn't exactly greet me with open arms, nor did they shun me, but these forums and the ubuntu community is much more helpful.
this is the first board ive ever posted on that has allowed "hello" posts. i used to close/delete a few every week myself as a moderator. i just dont see a need for them at all.

Gandalf
February 12th, 2006, 10:48 PM
I tried and used suse, it's cool, i like the idea about YAST to configure everything within it, but Suse = RPM = get the hell away from it :lol: , i hate rpm so it is impossible for me to use it...

void_false
February 12th, 2006, 10:48 PM
Better ask that question not at ubuntu oriented forum :mrgreen:
Seriously. I didnt see any good argument so far. ;)

maxdevis
February 12th, 2006, 10:59 PM
Better ask that question not at ubuntu oriented forum :mrgreen:


the best i can do is ask that at a ubuntu oriented forum
:mrgreen:

i need only pro-arguments
:-D

StueyB
February 13th, 2006, 12:41 PM
I must say i tried Suse and liked it a lot, even if it was slower than Ubuntu. I just liked the fact it was a lot more "polished" than ubuntu and just hung together better!

However, im coming back to Ubuntu to just check see how things are here again as the slowness was becoming an issue!

wjp.reg
February 13th, 2006, 02:24 PM
I continue to use both Suse and Ubuntu and see strengths and weaknesses in both.

Personally, I don't think I would be using linux to the extent that I am today if it were not for my initial experience with Suse, and YaST ("Yet Another System Tool") in particular. YaST helped me install, tune, and understand to some degree, what the heck was going on when setting up my network, printer and video. Once I got into booting multiple distros I continually relied on YaST to update Grub and the menu.lst the way I wanted it. The Suse CD and recovery mode was very helpful when I f**up and was unable to boot ubuntu any longer.

Be that as it may, I love ubuntu and prefer it as my working minimalist environment for internet browsing (faster?), email ( I actually like evolution ), and office work using OOwriter. I have found the forums more active, friendly and helpful, especially where development releases are concerned. A bit of a sadist, I always have a Suse and Ubuntu development release installed and have contributed to the buglists. That said, I find myself stuck more often in ubuntu when things aren't working due to my lingering ignorance of all things ubuntu and linux in general.

I am happy to say that I was able to install nvidia drivers, sound systems, and firefox plugins in both Suse and Ubuntu, with help from the respective communities.

nuff said!

poofyhairguy
February 13th, 2006, 05:52 PM
SUSE -KDE

Ubuntu -GNOME

Let that decide for you. Both emphasize one DE.

SuperDiscoMachine V.5.7-3
February 13th, 2006, 06:52 PM
SUSE -KDE

Ubuntu -GNOME

Let that decide for you. Both emphasize one DE.
Nope.
Suse==Novel==Ximian==GoodGnomeDestkop
Kubuntu==KDE

Gandalf
February 13th, 2006, 07:00 PM
Like wjp.reg said, I like how Suse is all-together distro, and all Yast power, but unfortunately it is 1) rpm based 2) too slow plus I am running away as far as i can from GUIs, CLI is faster, better.... i prefer Arch among all distros..

bored2k
February 13th, 2006, 07:04 PM
.... i prefer Arch among all distros..you owe me for that ;). And yes, RPM. I try to run away as much as I can from it.

Gandalf
February 13th, 2006, 07:16 PM
you owe me for that ;). And yes, RPM. I try to run away as much as I can from it.
Yeah I owe you one :p hehe

super
February 13th, 2006, 07:31 PM
yeah, the biggest difference is the package management.
i've had major problems with rpms before
i find apt-get/.deb to be the best package manager out there (actually, portage is pretty good also)

but suse is a good distro nonetheless
and i really respect the resources novell is putting behind linux
their work helps all of us.

Bandit
February 13th, 2006, 07:50 PM
This is interesting. We were having a debate close to this over at one of the suse forums.
SuSE has its perks.
1)Refind Distro.
2)Slighty better hardware detection on the retail versions.
3)YaST is still a great control pannel per say. Esp for Noobs.
4)Flash works out of the box with the default browser (Fx) on 64bit machines.
And its Cons.
1)YaST and YOU totally blow as package handlers.
2)9.3 and 10.0 network software is screwed up.
3)10.0 is really buggy all around.
4)Dependency HELL!!!
5)This is a personal one, but I dont like software installed to /opt all the time.
6)To many files to install even with small single DE install. Takes like over a hour even on my system to install.
7)I HATE THE MESSED UP LOOKING START ICON THEY HAVE. The lizard is kewl, but the small green BB sized icon does not fit as a Start button. Most users dont know what the **** it is until you tell them or they get lucky and just click on it. I think it should be perportional, esp on KDE were the button is square to start with. They should make a green button that is sqaure with the lizzard head in it. Then that would look correct and kewl at the same time.

Now I like K/Ubuntu better.
Pros.
1)Smaller distro, less crap to install that I and most users dont need or want.
2)Lots less bugs.
3)Apt is much much better at managing packages.
4)The repositories are perfect. Most of the software many users want can be found there without going through dependency HELL!
5)Much eaiser to install software from source on. No stupid *** /opt directory to screw with.
6)Out to get M$!!
Cons.
1)Still lakcing in some hardware support, thats to be expected with a young distro.
2)64bit support could be better, esp with Radeon drivers. I am refering to the Xorg supported cards (9250 and below), the drivers were screwed up on the 5.10-64bit release.
3)Better WiFi support, its getting better tho...

Personal NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE THE KDE START BUTTON ON KUBUNTU!!! I LIKE THE K BUTTON!!

Cheers,
Joey

poofyhairguy
February 13th, 2006, 08:08 PM
Suse==Novel==Ximian==GoodGnomeDestkop


Maybe for the enterprise verison of Novell Linux. Regular SUSE's Gnome has always given me problems.

Klaidas
February 13th, 2006, 08:41 PM
Well the great community support at ubuntuforums.org of course!

100% agreed. That's why (and some more reasons) I chose Ubuntu! :)

RaptorRaider
February 13th, 2006, 08:56 PM
Maybe for the enterprise verison of Novell Linux. Regular SUSE's Gnome has always given me problems.
Then I don't think you've tried SUSE recently.

Until some time ago, GNOME did indeed not integrate into SUSE very well.
I believe SUSE 10.0 was the first to fully incorporate GNOME.

void_false
February 13th, 2006, 09:01 PM
5)Much eaiser to install software from source on.
You should be kidding. First of all ubuntu even has no compiler by defautl! Even after you install these tools you are getting into realy dependency hell. You are running ./configure over and over and at every next line you get error message about missing library.

On SUSE I had 0 problems with compiling from source and never expirenced dependency hell.
All I want to say is that 1 CD is not enough! Ubuntu is lacking additional CD (or even CDs) with all the sweet things. Because if you have no internet or slow connection you may kiss goodbye to this very good and userfriendly distro.

Gandalf
February 13th, 2006, 09:05 PM
You should be kidding. First of all ubuntu even has no compiler by defautl! Even after you install these tools you are getting into realy dependency hell. You are running ./configure over and over and at every next line you get error message about missing library.

On SUSE I had 0 problems with compiling from source and never expirenced dependency hell.
All I want to say is that 1 CD is not enough! Ubuntu is lacking additional CD (or even CDs) with all the sweet things. Because if you have no internet or slow connection you may kiss goodbye to this very good and userfriendly distro.
hmmm ... but on every linux/unix distribution you have to spend a little time in order to discover dependecies to compile sources and when you do either you write a HOWTO for others, either you provide the binarie (not with checkinstall !!!) that will resolve dependecies too or provide the PKGBUILD file (in case you are using Arch) but whatever is the distribution you are using, YOU will face this! but on some its easier than other by using tools such as namcap !

Bandit
February 13th, 2006, 10:10 PM
You should be kidding. First of all ubuntu even has no compiler by defautl! Even after you install these tools you are getting into realy dependency hell. You are running ./configure over and over and at every next line you get error message about missing library.

On SUSE I had 0 problems with compiling from source and never expirenced dependency hell.
All I want to say is that 1 CD is not enough! Ubuntu is lacking additional CD (or even CDs) with all the sweet things. Because if you have no internet or slow connection you may kiss goodbye to this very good and userfriendly distro.
Your kidding right?
Guess I have imagined everything...
Guess my website doesn't exist either.

Just because the compiling tools doesn't come on the CD doesn't mean there isn't any. Let me help you out here. "sudo apt-get install build-essentials".
BTW, I doubt you even compiled much on SuSE. I have been using SuSE since 7.1 so I think that mean I might know what I am talking about.
On SuSE some programs like Xine and XineGUI go under /usr, but for some reason SuSE stick some files like Gnome and it libs under /opt. Now no doubt many users like this. But to me its just plain stupid and a waist of time.
But that my personal opinion, your milage may very.
Cheers,
Joey

Ghetto_Smurf
February 13th, 2006, 10:18 PM
SuSe lures users because of it's big company-like image. ubuntu could have ads on magazines, put shipit ads too (that would really increase ubuntu users). and ubuntu needs to have merch (t-shirt with logo, slogan and url) =p.

either way, ubuntu rocks. my triple boot machine has ubuntu, slackware and windows xp (still trying to get rid of it, but stupid sister screams every time she sees a ubuntu gdm screen)

tseliot
February 13th, 2006, 11:02 PM
I would like to share my experience with OpenSuse 10 (32bit).

Cons:
-Mainly Yast as package manager. For example I added the repos to install the codecs (which are not official) and I think some of the repos were slow or went down every time I tried to install the codecs: the result was that Yast froze during the download. I made several other attempts in different days but the result was always the same. Another thing Yast wanted to do (when it didn't lock up;) ) was to remove several apps in order to overcome dependency problems.
I admit that: 1) I didn't ask for help (about this issue) on their forums (which I find very helpful); 2) It might be just me and not an issue of the distro itself.
-Sax didn't detect my exact screen resolution (a think which Ubuntu does but other distros don't)
-I installed Opensuse also on my laptop and I forgot to plug in my PS/2 mouse during the installation (I used the synaptic touchpad instead). I thought I could configure my PS/2 mouse later and I did it successfully using Yast. The problem was that if I booted Suse with my mouse plugged in it wouldn't start the Xserver:???: .
In this case I asked for help on their forums and a moderator (who was very kind to me) tried to help me. It suggested to use SAX to reconigure the xserver. In the end the problem was not solved and the only thing to do was a fresh install. Now, I'm not a noob, I am able to make my mouse work in FreeBSD, Gentoo, Ubuntu, etc. even if I didn't use it during the installation.

Pros
-Yast (as a control centre) is very easy to use and setting the desired screen resolution was a breeze (although I like editing the xorg.conf manually with a text editor). I find Yast to be better than Windows' "device manager" (I don't know its name in English) and control panel.
-You don't need to install java and flash
-The installer is graphical (not textual as in Ubuntu) and eye candy and it might appeal GNU/Linux newbies. Maybe I was distracted and overwrote Ubuntu's bootloader by mistake (this was my fault, I guess;) ) anyhow I find Ubuntu's installer a bit easier (but maybe it's just a matter of taste).
-You can use APT (apt4rpm if I'm not wrong) (some users say it's not perfect but I have never tried it myself)
-Installing Nvidia or Ati proprietary drivers it's a breeze (a mouse click) (but Novell is going to remove this feature)

I don't use Opensuse 10 any more and I would like to try both Slackware and Arch Linux.

I have nothing against RPMs as I think they work fine in Fedora (never had dependency problems there). Moreover I don't have anything against OpenSuse, it's not for me but it might work for you and although I like Ubuntu (or Fedora) better I would never state that a distro is superior to another.

Lord Illidan
February 13th, 2006, 11:11 PM
this is the first board ive ever posted on that has allowed "hello" posts. i used to close/delete a few every week myself as a moderator. i just dont see a need for them at all.

Hello is the first thing we say as a greeting, no? Makes sense that they will be the first thing someone says.

Suse got me into dependency hell when I tried to install KDE 3.5, and this was from a distro famed for its KDE. In Kubuntu I just added a repo and got KDE 3.5 installed in a jiffy. I didn't like GNOME on SUSE also, but in Ubuntu it rocks!

And imho, SUSE has too many packages on the cd. Browsing them in the installation was really tedious, especially when you want to hurry up and get it installed.

YAST - slooooooooow........I had to use kcontrol instead, then I just got fed up of things and reinstalled Ubuntu.

void_false
February 13th, 2006, 11:24 PM
OK. After reading all your comments it seems that Suse is a plain nightmare.
I will rm rf / now!

mstlyevil
February 14th, 2006, 12:39 AM
OK. After reading all your comments it seems that Suse is a plain nightmare.
I will rm rf / now!

My experience with Suse 10 was quite pleasant. I used the evaluation version which is the exact same version as the boxed set without the manuals and the free support. It included Realplayer, Flash, JR2E, and other propietary software. I had to add some new sources to YAST to install the Nonfree codecs but I found a guide that made that easy. The reason I like Ubuntu better is I prefer Synaptic and Debian over Yast and RPM. Also the Ubuntu forums are first class and the Suse forums are lacking. I also like the philosophy behind Ubuntu and it's creation. Suse is my second choice if for some reason I could not use Ubuntu.

rado_london
February 14th, 2006, 01:13 AM
Suse was so slow on my new laptop. Ubuntu was ways faster. And the wireless didnt work on suse, in ubunntu it worked out of the box

manicka
February 14th, 2006, 01:25 AM
this is the first board ive ever posted on that has allowed "hello" posts. i used to close/delete a few every week myself as a moderator. i just dont see a need for them at all.

The welcoming nature of this forum is what brings people here and keeps them here. It's all part of the Ubuntu philosophy. I'm not surprised that some people leave other communites if they are treated this way.

As far as the SuSE community goes you'll find two main forums there.
One nice and friendly and the other harsher and moderated a little like the above description. I've been a member of one of these forums for years and still hang out there occasionally with Bandit and others because of the friendly helpful people that are part of that forum/community.

In short I don't think there is an answer to which distro is the best. Try them both, engage in both communities and see which one suits you best. A knowledge of different distros can only be a healthy thing in the long run.

Most of all, enjoy your Linux :)

Bandit
February 14th, 2006, 01:38 AM
MANI

Arc Owner
February 14th, 2006, 03:56 AM
I would install Ubuntu. I am currently using (at least until I get the rest of the parts for the pc I'm building) an AMD K-6 2/500mhz processor with 256mb ram, with Ubuntu, and it works great. I tried Suse this week, because I wanted to see how it compared to ubuntu and I wanted to try something different, but I later found out that it wouldn't work. I had the idea that linux worked on all hardware, but after posting in the suse forums (which actually were very friendly) because my monitor kept on going blank,I found out that Suse's requirements are AT LEAST 256mb ram, and a much higher processor than the one I am using. If you are running on older hardware I would definetely recommend ubuntu, Suse needs the latest and greatest.:cool:

asimon
February 14th, 2006, 12:55 PM
If your sister prefers KDE then I would recommend to stick with SUSE. Ubuntu's KDE packages are improving but they have still a long way to go until they reach the stability and polish of SUSE's KDE.

And why is everyone so negative when it comes to rpm? Does the actual package format has anything to do with the quality of the packages themselves? Or does 'rpm' in this context means the rpm program, which usually nobody uses to manage their packages. For this smart, apt, y2pm, yum, and their various frontends are the tools to use.

claydoh
February 14th, 2006, 04:01 PM
I love Kubuntu, though I have nothing bad to say about Suse, it always seems to be my #2 fave distro over the past few years.:D

Better admin tools, though their package manager seems slow to me but I never had the dreaded "rpm hell", heck I haven't seem that problem in a long time for that matter.

set her up with a dual boot and try out both, or of course ther's live cd's :)