Gaming From Another Perspective

[dazzlindonna]

Hi. I like playing computer games. But I don't play any of the games most discussed on "gaming" boards. I call them "boy games", but I suppose that's being sexist. I imagine there are females who enjoy them, as well, but nevertheless, I think of them as mainly being played by guys. They generally involve battles of some sort; war games, strategy, guns, or driving of some sort; car racing, flying, etc.

But there's a whole different type of gamer out there who love other types of games. Some of those games fit into the category of casual gaming. A few of the types that I particularly enjoy include Hidden Object games and some of the more sophisticated Match 3 games such as Luxor or Zuma.

There are TONS of people who like those kinds of games but don't like the "boy games". TONS, I tell ya! TONS! :D

Anyway, if Linux would ever get around to catering to these types of "gamers", you'd see a much bigger audience swinging towards the OS. Granted, many of these types of gamers aren't tech-savvy, so it will be a little harder, but I know lots of people who won't switch simply because they can't download and play games like Zuma or Luxor on their machine.

Now, at first, I thought it was simply the fact that Shockwave games can't be played on Linux that was the stopping point. If the games on Shockwave.com could be downloaded and played on Linux, the problem would be solved. But since that probably won't happen in the next few hundred years, I assumed all was lost.

But then, WAIT! I found OceaniX. And it runs on Linux just fine, tyvm.

Now, granted, it's not the most sophisticated game of its sort out there, but it clearly demonstrates that this type of thing is possible - and still look modern - and not like the games of 20 years ago.

There are some good screenshots here: http://www.bigfishgames.com/download-games/3180/oceanix/index.html

The actual linux version can be downloaded here:
http://linux.softpedia.com/get/GAMES-ENTERTAINMENT/Puzzle/OceaniX-46592.shtml

Apparently, it uses some sort of game engine called Zen-GL. The point is: it's possible! It works. And if more games were created that fit into this type of gamer's mold, it would make a difference.

Just wanted to remind the geeky boys of the Linux world that there are other types of gamers out there and that we'd love to be included when y'all are making games, aight? :D

[noerrorsfound]

People who make these games for free in their spare time normally are making the games they themselves want to play. If the programmers are geeky boys, they're going to make geeky boy games. PopCap games provides Mac ports of their casual games so it wouldn't be difficult to provide a Linux version. If there's enough demand, they will.

[dazzlindonna]

Just sayin' - huge market waiting to be tapped - and another way to get Linux established with the everyday folks out there.

[Bölvaður]

Just sayin' - huge market waiting to be tapped - and another way to get Linux established with the everyday folks out there.

how huge market?
how much is it willing to pay for a game like Luxor per license?
will the customer be tech savvy enough to know how to buy it through ubuntu software store?

[joeelmex]

Thanks for the game, looks like fun but I get no audio. Anyone else is having this issue?

NM I got it i was using X86_64 change to just X86 and that 1 worked. thanks Just tried x86_64 thinking i should used that because Im on 64 bit OS.

[dazzlindonna]

Shockwave.com sells to those people all the time. Personally, I pay a subscription fee (annually) for the windows users in my family. Yes, the people who play these games are tech savvy enough to purchase games online.

The casual game industry is hauling in $2.25 billion a year and expanding by 20 per cent annually

Read more: http://digital-lifestyles.info/2007/10/31/casual-games-market-growing-by-20-per-cent-a-year/#ixzz0TD6pxoHm


And with mobile latching on to them, as well as social sites like Facebook, people are starting to expect to be able to play their favorite games everywhere. If they can't play them on a linux box, they will reject linux. Just my opinion of course, but I see it from the every day folks I talk to all the time.

[Naegling23]

your absolutely right, my grandfather really enjoys playing these types of games. Linux would be a great choice since his tech savvyness is currently in the "where is the folder where the games are stored again" status. Needless to say, he cannot be convinced to run a virus scan. Your right, smaller game players may not be as "tech savy" but if the systems are set up for them, or can install straight from a disk, or come preloaded by dell, system76, etc, then they can be just as easy to use...although, I hate to do this on an ubuntu forum, but ubuntu is not a good OS for non-tech savy people, linux mint might be a great choice. (I understand, and to an extent support canonicals decision not to ship with propriatary codec support, Im just saying that I am an ubuntu user since the badger days, and I still get hung up installing them around upgrade time, so I can only imagine other peoples dismay...and dont get me started about "try out this live cd to see how it works...if by try, you mean dont listen to mp3's or watch videos).

[jperez]

Nice to see the Linux female gamers coming out of the woodworks to let us know "us guys" are not alone, even though I know we're not. My girlfriend is a gamer and so are many of the girls I know online. ;)

If they ported over many of the games that were mentioned and asked for a fee, I'm sure people would pay regardless since people will usually pay for quality stuff. That's not to say there aren't a lot of good games for Linux, but the fact that the games department is still lacking a bit is saddening, but one day it'll even out as Linux gets more popular among end-users. :mrgreen:

Jesse~

[dazzlindonna]

Yay! Thanks Troy for letting me know that there's a company out there getting some of this going. At least one member of my family would love those Fashion Cents games. I may buy those for Christmas presents, load them on my linux laptop, and see if I can get them hooked on linux that way. :D

Of course, then they're going to want to know where they can find more games like them and that's where things will get a little dicey. LOL.

Thanks to everyone for showing some interest in the topic. Appreciated.

[Bölvaður]

At least one member of my family would love those Fashion Cents games. I may buy those for Christmas presents

Perhaps do that, but buy My Tribe right now?
http://www.mygamecompany.com/Products/Other/mytribe.htm

look at the prices and see that the linux version is much cheaper than for the others.

IMO this game is the best game on that website, but after trying the demo it is too children friendly. I'd want more supply-management and logistics in the game.... so I didnt buy the game... perhaps because I am not a casual gamer at all.


Looking forward to check out My Tribe 2 when it comes out.

[Sindwiller]

Popcap and various minigames. *shrugs*

[princec]

Hello Ubuntu types. It just came to my attention that the author of Fashion Cents apparently posted in here - probably saw an incoming link in his logs - and was immediately banned from the forum for "spamming" and hasn't been given even the opportunity to air his grievance (short of creating a sockpuppet account).

I can't see how this attitude's going to help the Ubuntu community.

Us game devs have to put in a massively disproportionate amount of effort to support Linux - it always operates at a complete loss as there really aren't anywhere near enough customers - so if you want to see more games come out for Ubuntu, please do try and support us as a community. A guy turning up in a forum and making a personal and detailed post about his game isn't spam, it's real, genuine effort, and for probably almost no return.

Sorry that my first post here is a whinge :( Hopefully I won't get banned for it.

<edit>Ah yes my credentials - I'm from Puppygames.

Cas :)

[joeelmex]

MODS the guy who posted information on Fashion Cents is not a spammer. It is not right to ban his account when he is talking about a similar game about the topic. That is not right and its not right to treat someone supporting our platform that way!

[ikt]

Some of those games fit into the category of casual gaming. A few of the types that I particularly enjoy include Hidden Object games and some of the more sophisticated Match 3 games such as Luxor or Zuma.

Yes, casual gamers are a huge market, so are the hardcore gaming markets ie halo, wow, etc


There are TONS of people who like those kinds of games but don't like the "boy games". TONS, I tell ya! TONS! :D

You could call them boy games but then we'd have to call the simple games 'girl games' and that'd be insulting to girls.. damn those stereotypes!

It would also be beside the point and insulting to all the girls who play halo and counter strike and wow etc. (and they do...in the millions)


Anyway, if Linux would ever get around to catering to these types of "gamers", you'd see a much bigger audience swinging towards the OS.

TBH linux as a gaming client already largely supports casual gamers, from what I've seen 85%+ of games that run on linux would be directly targeted at the casual gamer market, you don't have to go far to see this.

Applications > Games > all casual gamer type games.

What linux does miss out on is the more hardcore games, and thus the majority of gamers who actually really get into them will always recommend windows and will diss mac and linux. (This might be a good thing)

(Contains swears, NSFW) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjpn3L3bSJQ

http://jcmc.indiana.edu/vol11/issue4/hartmann.html

and only 12% reported being very interested in video games in general (compared to 36% of boys; MFS, 2005a).

Just sayin' - huge market waiting to be tapped - and another way to get Linux established with the everyday folks out there.

Solitare has been included with ubuntu since the beginning :P but I do understand what you're saying, but I disagree that a large influx of casual games would be enough to convert a large market over to linux.

[LinuxFox]

I play those "boy games" as you call them, but I can't help but agree in a way. My mother switched to Linux and she wanted to play Bejeweled. I had to use WINE just so I can install it off the CD. Then a few days ago she wanted to play another game, and all she found was Mahjongg in the Games menu.

It would be nice if there were some Linux-native games she could enjoy. This way we don't have to use WINE to play them.

[elias4444]

I have to agree with princec and joeelmex. It was disheartening to hear about a game developer being banned for mentioning his games for linux on this forum. Who should we contact to get this fixed and the user reinstated (assuming he's even willing to come back now)?

[totolik]

TBH linux as a gaming client already largely supports casual gamers, from what I've seen 85%+ of games that run on linux would be directly targeted at the casual gamer market, you don't have to go far to see this.

Applications > Games > all casual gamer type games.


That's called cheap, outdated freeware. If you could play same cheap version Minesweeper and Solitaire for 20 years in a row (or, in fact, enjoy bundling the same build of NetHack) - that's great (you are out of sync with reality and don't have a product manager handling games direction). Expectations of a modern casual players aren't about some "black and white ascii bs from 20 years ago" (that's modern perception of what you've got). Casual gaming is about games with enjoyable storylines, actual game balance and nice production values.


What linux does miss out on is the more hardcore games, and thus the majority of gamers who actually really get into them will always recommend windows and will diss mac and linux. (This might be a good thing)


There are like few million hardcore players who still buy call of duty on pc. Everyone else in on consoles. Instead of proposing to target hundreds of millions of casual end-users, you are proposing to target some hardcore kids that would somehow promote geekness of linux, right? "w00t i just fragged this jerk with my ultimate build of cod4 for linux!!!111oneoneone"
In fact, there are more ports of hardcore games (yes, they are old, but they are hardcore) than casual games (cause someone thinks that 10 year old Solitaire build is casual).

Solitare has been included with ubuntu since the beginning :P but I do understand what you're saying, but I disagree that a large influx of casual games would be enough to convert a large market over to linux.

Disagreeing is cool, now try arguing and posting some facts based on quotes perhaps.

Oh, and why did you ban Troy, that was totally lame. Like these smiles: :popcorn: :guitar:

[ikt]

That's called cheap, outdated freeware.

Negative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casual_game

"Microsoft's Solitaire, which came free with Microsoft Windows, is widely considered the first successful "casual game", with more than 400 million people having played the game since its inception[9]. Subsequent versions of Windows included Minesweeper, and once Microsoft discovered the popularity of their pack-in solitaire, they expanded on it with FreeCell and Spider Solitaire."


If you could play same cheap version Minesweeper and Solitaire for 20 years in a row

Most people haven't been using PC's for 20 years, let alone playing video games for 20 years straight.


Expectations of a modern casual players aren't about some "black and white ascii bs from 20 years ago" (that's modern perception of what you've got). Casual gaming is about games with enjoyable storylines, actual game balance and nice production values.

Most casual games have similar basic features:

* Extremely simple gameplay, like a puzzle game that can be played entirely using a one-button mouse or cellphone keypad
* Allowing gameplay in short bursts, during work breaks or, in the case of portable and cell phone games, on public transportation
* The ability to quickly reach a final stage[6], or continuous play with no need to save the game
* 2D, abstract graphics
* Some variant on a "try before you buy" business model or an advertising-based model

A majority of casual gamers are probably playing Flash games, and other simple games like ******* or bejewled.


There are like few million hardcore players who still buy call of duty on pc. Everyone else in on consoles. Instead of proposing to target hundreds of millions of casual end-users, you are proposing to target some hardcore

I'm not proposing anything as all the talk here is hypothetical, this thread will die in maybe a month and nothing will come of it, what's interesting is you say everyone else is on consoles.. omg even the casual gamers?

The top 10 selling Wii games.

* Wii Sports (47.62 million)[68]
* Wii Play (22.98 million)[69]
* Wii Fit (21.82 million)[68]

In fact, there are more ports of hardcore games (yes, they are old, but they are hardcore) than casual games (cause someone thinks that 10 year old Solitaire build is casual).

I'd really like to know how you think there are more ports of hardcore games than casual games when there is pretty much only 1 major studio supporting linux and that's ID, every other major game out there isn't compatible with linux, hell even Diablo 2 struggles to run on linux with wine.


Disagreeing is cool, now try arguing and posting some facts based on quotes perhaps.

Quote yourself?

[Platinum89]

Very well said Cas. I was appalled to see that he had been banned as well. Developers who port or develop game software for Linux should be welcomed here, not pushed away. It has detrimental effects on the whole effort. Let's hope the moderators see the light ;)

[DEagleson]

Casual Games. <3
Games like World of Goo, Peggle series and Plants vs. Zombies are soo cool. :)
Just wish Popcap made some kind of linux client.

[totolik]

A majority of casual gamers are probably playing Flash games, and other simple games like ******* or bejewled.

http://www.casualcharts.com/

I'm not proposing anything as all the talk here is hypothetical, this thread will die in maybe a month and nothing will come of it, what's interesting is you say everyone else is on consoles.. omg even the casual gamers?

I've mentioned consoles based on sales of hardcore FPS, racing, etc games on PC versus consoles. This was to address your "WE NEED HARDCORE GAMES" call.

If you want the thread to get productive, Linux community needs to have games product manager that will define short-term strategy taking into account modern gaming trends by evangelizing Linux support at game developer conventions, creating an end-user destination portal supported by one of the Linux distribution teams (or yet better an outside company taking care of it) and embracing single-way of submission, installation and support to provide fluid consumer experience.


I'd really like to know how you think there are more ports of hardcore games than casual games when there is pretty much only 1 major studio supporting linux and that's ID, every other major game out there isn't compatible with linux, hell even Diablo 2 struggles to run on linux with wine.

Look at the quantity of high quality ported games and open source engines (freeciv, openttd, quakes, etc) compared to the amount of high quality casual games (close to 0).

[ikt]

Look at the quantity of high quality ported games and open source engines (freeciv, openttd, quakes, etc)

(close to 0)

If you think 15 year old 2d games are considered 'high quality ports' I'd be happy to tell you most modern gamers would disagree, by disagree I mean laugh in your face.

compared to the amount of high quality casual games (close to 0).

(close to 0)

There are very few games on linux to begin with, do we need more casual games? yes. Do we need more games in general? yes.

Linux community needs to have games product manager that will define short-term strategy taking into account modern gaming trends by evangelizing Linux support at game developer conventions, creating an end-user destination portal supported by one of the Linux distribution teams (or yet better an outside company taking care of it) and embracing single-way of submission, installation and support to provide fluid consumer experience.

We need more people is what we need. How can you expect major developers to cater to <1% of the market, they struggle with mac as it is.

And all of this arguing doesn't make a difference to what's happening out there in the real world. EA are releasing (casual) games on Mac by the truckload. And EA won't do anything unless they're going to make some serious coin out of it. If Apple gear is an attractive enough platform for them to spend some development money on, then it's pretty obvious that there's enough people using it now on their home desktops to warrant EA's attention. They sure as **** wouldn't be throwing cash at it if they weren't going to get themselves a nice fat, juicy return from their investment.

What would I like to see? More games, whatever the genre/type.

[Bad Sector]

If you want the thread to get productive, Linux community needs to have games product manager that will define short-term strategy taking into account modern gaming trends by evangelizing Linux support at game developer conventions, creating an end-user destination portal supported by one of the Linux distribution teams (or yet better an outside company taking care of it) and embracing single-way of submission, installation and support to provide fluid consumer experience.

Actually i agree with that, although having a "single product manager" will simply won't work with how the Linux community is made up. What needs to be done is a "Linux Gaming" organization similar to the Free Desktop one, that figures out what exactly is available, what is needed, how to do it, start writing specifications for distributions to follow and actively help implement them. Of course a lot of the issues present (deployment being one) are not related only to games, so Free Desktop or some other organization also needs to be involved in the process.

Of course all these organizations means a lot of people and a lot of -different- opinions, which means that something like this will need years to reach an interesting state. But thats how things work in Linux i suppose.

[Artificial Intelligence]

Hello Ubuntu types. It just came to my attention that the author of Fashion Cents apparently posted in here - probably saw an incoming link in his logs - and was immediately banned from the forum for "spamming" and hasn't been given even the opportunity to air his grievance (short of creating a sockpuppet account).

I can't see how this attitude's going to help the Ubuntu community.

Us game devs have to put in a massively disproportionate amount of effort to support Linux - it always operates at a complete loss as there really aren't anywhere near enough customers - so if you want to see more games come out for Ubuntu, please do try and support us as a community. A guy turning up in a forum and making a personal and detailed post about his game isn't spam, it's real, genuine effort, and for probably almost no return.

Sorry that my first post here is a whinge :( Hopefully I won't get banned for it.

<edit>Ah yes my credentials - I'm from Puppygames.

Cas :)

If that is the case, ask him or if he is reading this thread to use Resolution Center (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=123) to let an admin have a look at it.


regards
A.I. Dude
Ubuntu Forum Staff

[ndefontenay]

Bejeweled equivalent for linux is called monsterz. I've tried it. It's not bad at all.

My favorite clone of bejeweled is probably Elements (goobox on facebook) just wish it didn't had a time limit. And I also can play it on facebook.

[Sindwiller]

If you think 15 year old 2d games are considered 'high quality ports' I'd be happy to tell you most modern gamers would disagree, by disagree I mean laugh in your face.

Freeciv is pretty decent, OpenTTD is a joke indeed, but there's hope for Unknown Horizons (http://www.unknown-horizons.org/site/) for example, but a) I wouldn't consider those games casual games anyway and b) copying/reimplementing existing, ****-old game designs isn't something to brag about anyway :P

Also, Freegamedev anyone?

[punkbohemian]

I probably fall into both categories. Sometimes, I like to goof off with casual games (i.e. http://www.kongregate.com or http://www.pastelgames.com/), but I also like some more intense games (i.e. GTA, FF series, etc.) I wasn't aware that people actually downloaded (or paid for) casual games like bejeweled, zuma, etc. So many of them are free to play online.

But anyway, as for tapping into that market, I don't really see too many open-source (game) developers going in that direction. First of all, nobody really cares about markets. What Linux looks like is determined by whoever happens to be in the community. So, if a bunch of linux using casual gamers say, "it would be great to have more casual games", but if none of them are developers, then there probably aren't going to be a lot of casual games made.

I'm in a similar boat as the OP, though my gripe (like so many others) is that there aren't enough "serious" games for Linux. As a result, I've been teaching myself Python with the hope of developing some games (through collaboration, hopefully). Actually, I've been looking for groups with whom to potentially get involved, but I see pretty much the same thing everywhere. The typical post goes like:

"I want to make XXX game. I have the ideas, but I need composers, modelers, animators, programming, testers..." and so on.

Add this to the plethora of dead/barely started projects out there (compared to the oh-so-few thriving or completed ones), and what you have is a whole lot of people who want games, and very few people who want to do the actual work.

In other words...

Just wanted to remind the geeky boys of the Linux world that there are other types of gamers out there and that we'd love to be included when y'all are making games, aight?

And that's my gripe in this post. As is, I work a couple different jobs, spend time with friends and family, and have other interests. I barely have enough time to teach myself how to do what I want to do with Python, **** making a Bejeweled clone. See, Linux is like socialist technological development. In other words, you get out of it what you put into it. If Linux doesn't already have something you want, roll up your sleeves and get to work.

And I'm not being a jerk for being a jerk's sake, but one sees posts about people requesting stuff so much more often than posts about people finishing stuff. It's like people don't realize that "the community" isn't just a group of anonymous devs that are "out there", but it's everyone who is using Linux. Period.

[Lizzy]

I too love match 3, mahjongg and puzzle games, and i constantly find myself searching for those. I admit that i'm one casual gamer who is willing to pay for those games. I recently purchased World of Goo, Runes of Avalon 1+2 and then i stumbled upon JAG on PlayDeb.net (which was a delight), Stones of the Gods doesn't work anymore on 9.04, then i stumbled upon OceaniX (very nice) and this game on Softpedia--> "Hotetei's Jewels: Relax 1.0.4" but i simply can't get it to work. I realy would love to see more of those games for Linux, as there are more than enough 1st person shooters and other "boys games"(don't shoot me :P )

PS: I do NOT DEMAND anything from the devs :), i know they are hard working people. I wish i was a programmer who could create games and other software for the community.

[Artificial Intelligence]

Stones of the Gods doesn't work anymore on 9.04, then i stumbled upon OceaniX (very nice) and this game on Softpedia--> "Hotetei's Jewels: Relax 1.0.4" but i simply can't get it to work.

You could start a thread and ask for help, it is a support forum ;)

[Lizzy]

You could start a thread and ask for help, it is a support forum ;)

You're right :) but i don't like bothering anyone for the sake of a game *lol* i was searching the net for a solution, cause i thougt it had something to do with the sdl library(graphics is a total mess), but i figure it just won't work on Ubuntu/Crunchbang ;-) (yet). The game looked very cool though :). Maybe another game comes up ;-)

[koonsolo]

We need more people is what we need. How can you expect major developers to cater to <1% of the market, they struggle with mac as it is.

For mayor game development studios this is indeed a problem, but for smaller indie or casual game devs it's much more viable to actually sell enough copies on Mac or Linux. I'm an indie game developer myself, and I've posted some of my findings here (http://www.koonsolo.com/news/?p=33). I think more indie game developers will see the potential of Linux and start supporting the platform. If they do then the market becomes bigger, and maybe even profitable for the bigger titles (lets hope so! :))

[Zenki]

This is so backwards. I understand where you are coming from, but just looking in the synaptic package manager under gaming i see thousands of games like those that are mentioned here. I dont think support in that area is warranted.

I think Linux would explode if the major developers (Blizzard, THQ, GPG, Activision, etc...) made linux ready versions. Most of the people who play these games run linux in parallel. Getting the major games to work through WINE and such is a long and difficult process and often means sacrificing performance.

Thats my two cents

[mendozaro]

Please vote here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=963593) if really are interested in this topic.