"We're getting bloated and huge. Yes, it's a problem"

[masux594]

At LinuxCon 2009, Linus Torvalds defined the linux kernel "bloated and huge".. Let's talk about that, what do you think about it? Yeah, i know about " thousand of different drivers, .. " etc, i've read many articles over the net about that, but, how can the "bloated and huge" definition returns the "small, lean and efficient" definition of the early years of linux, in the world today[tomorrow]??

The question were asked, but i want to clarify my position.. I'm not a linux veteran [not yet!] but the open source world that comes with my pc's OS, literally, open my mind.. And i hope that in the future it will open many other minds..

Sysc, A


Thread resume:


Apps with a better quality

[kerry_s]

everyone wants things to just work, i don't think supporting as much hardware as possiable should be considered bloated as far as the kernel go's.

linux programs on the other hand do seem to be bloated to me, i especially hate the slow python based programs.

[masux594]

Ok.. If I understand, you mean, better quality of the various linux apps? This is a good starting point.. You're right!

Others point of view?

Sysc, A

[armandh]

at some point, given the diversity of x86 hardware, the kernel must also branch. just as one must select the correct down load for PPC or 64bit, etc. then perhaps a PCI and earlier or a PCIE and later choice for the x86. possibly some over lap in the kernels but the future x86 bloat would not be from drivers needed for a P-III vintage box

[masux594]

at some point, given the diversity of x86 hardware, the kernel must also branch. just as one must select the correct down load for PPC or 64bit, etc. then perhaps a PCI and earlier or a PCIE and later choice for the x86. possibly some over lap in the kernels but the future x86 bloat would not be from drivers needed for a P-III vintage box

Explain better your idea..Tnx..

Sysc, A

[Viva]

He is talking about the kernel. It is a necessary bloat unlike some of the bloat in windows software caused due to poor GUI design and unnecessary features. Lightweight distros will always exist in linux.

[lykwydchykyn]

Well first, when Linus says "Linux" he means the kernel. He isn't talking about Ubuntu, or python apps, or OpenOffice, or anything else people commonly lump into the term "linux".

More importantly, I'm under the impression he means the code base from which kernels are compiled. Important point, because not every part of that code base has to be compiled into any actual kernel you'd run.

Keep in mind, the kernel project produces the source code for a kernel. That's it. They don't compile the kernel for any distro, they don't decide which variations of the kernel go into the Ubuntu repositories or what the default kernel for the next Fedora will be.

They simply produce a base of code from which distros or other users of the kernel can construct a Linux kernel. Why would we not want as much material there as possible for them to work with?

EDIT: viva beat me to it! That's what I get for getting a cup of coffee after clicking 'reply'!

[masux594]

He is talking about the kernel. It is a necessary bloat unlike some of the bloat in windows software caused due to poor GUI design and unnecessary features. Lightweight distros will always exist in linux.

LightWeight distros.. Sure, i suppose that when linux comes out, it was extremely lightweight.. No GUI, all commands from the terminal, maybe mainly used as server and so on.. But, if we take a "normal user" that don't know anything about commands & co. , how can linux be more user-friendly [but remember, " small, lean and efficient"] with those user that don't want to rack one's brains??

Sysc, A

[Viva]

LightWeight distros.. Sure, i suppose that when linux comes out, it was extremely lightweight.. No GUI, all commands from the terminal, maybe mainly used as server and so on.. But, if we take a "normal user" that don't know anything about commands & co. , how can linux be more user-friendly [but remember, " small, lean and efficient"] with those user that don't want to rack one's brains??

Sysc, A

Lightweight distros can have a GUI too. You're confusing Kernel bloat with bloat caused by GUIs. Whether a distro is lightweight or not depends mainly on the window manager, desktop environment, default software and settings. The kernel bloat only adds more hardware support and has little to deal with user friendliness.

[Grenage]

This is a problem that all long-running software or code base must contend with. That's why there are always new 'up and coming' OSs and suites that run so much faster. It's a lot easier to write something from scratch and keep it lean than to maintain and improve.

[HappyFeet]

This belongs in the cafe.

[cariboo907]

Moved to Recurring, this is not a Testimonial or Experience.

[SomeGuyDude]

People need to stop looking at Linux's early days like they were the golden era. Yeah I'm sure the kernel was much smaller then, but it's not a coincidence that few people could make the damn thing function.