Gnome Shell Design

[LIB53]

I've been taking a look at Gnome Shell recently and I'm not liking the design of things. The concepts are genius, but it looks lame. There are many that would take function over looks any time, but unfortunately there are many of us that want a perfect balance between looks and function. Does anyone else find the looks of Gnome Shell a bit irritating? Want parts of the design bothers you?

I also want to point out that if you're interested in gnome shell or what it's all about, then you should go check out their website (http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell). Especially the designer playground (http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground).

[LIB53]

Forgot the other screenshot, and to mention that it's an actual screenshot of my desktop running gnome shell built yesterday.

[Finalfantasykid]

I don't think it is nearly as bad as some people seem to think. It might take a little getting used to, but I'm sure it will be just as good if not better than Gnome 2. Also isn't Gnome 3 still a little ways off, like a year away or something? Lots could change in that time, probably for the better.

[LIB53]

Yeah, i know but it's not going to change unless people come up with an idea. Right now i'm thinking that the bar on the left should be horizontal. I attached my incomplete mockup.Additional Options

[coldReactive]

I really don't like the second-screenshot idea thing, I like GNOME as-is. Where's the Custom/Menu in those screenshots? I don't see it. :(

[Jaybugg13]

I like general idea but.... I still like my cube, and to me that has to do more with a feeling of space than anything else. The Overlay bringing up all my workspaces feels cramped. Also I have seen that if you search for an App that is not frequently used the results push the desktops out of view which I don't like. Lastly, I find that I don't like the wasted space on top of the Overlay view. Naturally there is lots of time for adjustment so we'll see what happens, and I will most likely still use the GNOME shell even with the issues I see.

[MadsRH]

... all my workspaces feels cramped...
+1


Yeah, i know but it's not going to change unless people come up with an idea. Right now i'm thinking that the bar on the left should be horizontal. I attached my incomplete mockup.Additional Options

+1 Looks better. You should suggest that on their wiki.


I know many Linux users love the cube, but I never user more than one workspace/desktop. So in that way the Gnome Shell design really doesn't appeal to me because it is such a huge part of the UI. I could live with two, like LIB53 suggested above - but four or more :(

[Exodist]

One of the key features I have always enjoyed with linux and begged for when using windows was the ease of moving around multiple desktops very quickly.

IMHO, the gnome shell takes way to much effort to use and from the videos I have seen directly impacts speed and ease-of-use in a negative fashion. I wouldnt mind if they added it in as an "option". But from what I have seen the gnome shell desktops look very stripped down and trashed. I will admit Gnome is ready for a new menuing system, but gnome shell isnt it.

[coldReactive]

One of the key features I have always enjoyed with linux and begged for when using windows was the ease of moving around multiple desktops very quickly.

IMHO, the gnome shell takes way to much effort to use and from the videos I have seen directly impacts speed and ease-of-use in a negative fashion. I wouldnt mind if they added it in as an "option". But from what I have seen the gnome shell desktops look very stripped down and trashed. I will admit Gnome is ready for a new menuing system, but gnome shell isnt it.

That's why I feel like going to KDE when this comes around.

[alex.rayu]

I would like Gnome as is, but with better GTK. I don't think that such questionable things as SHELL should be brought in as a part of it.

[LIB53]

I would like Gnome as is, but with better GTK. I don't think that such questionable things as SHELL should be brought in as a part of it.

You're right on track with what i think. Personally, i think if the desktop did get any upgrades, it would be a better nautilus and panel theme control. What's mostly taking away from Gnome right now is how old gtk looks and how nautilus feels pretty old school up against windows explorer from windows 7 and Dolphin. I don't think Gnome Shell is the right approach either.

[ninjapirate89]

I think the shell will be great by the time its done. However, as of right now, it isn't customizable enough for me. I want to be able to add applets to the top and change the color of the panel at the very least.

[days_of_ruin]

One thing I do not like about it right now is that when you browse for more applications, the results take too long to show up and the categories "buttons" don't look or feel like buttons. They are way to slim.

[lswb]

I would just rather see the gnome developers fix all some of the things that don't work now, before adding another. Think of all the things that gvfs still won't do that gnome-vfs could.

[LIB53]

I think the shell will be great by the time its done. However, as of right now, it isn't customizable enough for me. I want to be able to add applets to the top and change the color of the panel at the very least.

I'm a little unsure on how important customization is to them though. Based on the documentation that i read, it looks like a pretty solid and uniform experience meaning i read nothing about customization. Don't take my word for that though. Knowing me, i probably missed something.

[Exodist]

That's why I feel like going to KDE when this comes around.
Same here.. I like KDE, I prefer the current Gnome more. Only thing about KDE is that it seems soon as they get it stable for about a year then jump to a new version. I am hoping to go KDE on 10.04. It should be stable and feature full by then.

[LIB53]

Same here.. I like KDE, I prefer the current Gnome more. Only thing about KDE is that it seems soon as they get it stable for about a year then jump to a new version. I am hoping to go KDE on 10.04. It should be stable and feature full by then.

I really like KDE also, but i don't like Qt apps much. Using Firefox under KDE is annoying to me and i really prefer evince. I also prefer pidgin over kopete. The only Qt apps that i use are skype and vlc. Amarok is something i wouldn't mind though.

[Incendia]

It would be a good idea to just let the person choose through the settings which one they want?
Unless this is available, I'm not sure. I don't know much about it. :]

[misfitpierce]

I like it so long as its able to be turned off and not used if not wanted too... but it looks quite useful and easier to navigate around things.

[coldReactive]

It would be a good idea to just let the person choose through the settings which one they want?
Unless this is available, I'm not sure. I don't know much about it. :]

Yeah and hope that setting restarts gnome-panel like it was before this... I don't like the panels in gnome-shell, and that weird thing to the top left near the top panel (There is no bottom panel?!)

[Exodist]

I really like KDE also, but i don't like Qt apps much. Using Firefox under KDE is annoying to me and i really prefer evince. I also prefer pidgin over kopete. The only Qt apps that i use are skype and vlc. Amarok is something i wouldn't mind though.

I was testing KDE 4.3 I believe it is on the 9.10rc6 live CD and even on the live CD it ran very very good. Only bug I found was enabling desktop effects with the generic driver. It would cause xorg to crash and reload over and over.

Not sure if the previous release had them or not, but they have two clearlooks-styled themes in the themes list, I really like those.
I believe I am going to switch to Kubuntu 9.10 when it hits stable. I will have to play with the task bars a bit to set them up like gnome, but thats easy as pie.

One thing I thought was funny that I noticed. The fonts on Gnome are set at 10pt which is slightly to large, the fonts on KDE where set at 8pt which is slightly to small.. LOL Guess no one can agree on 9pt!!

Back on Topic:
Looks like more and more each day they are going to be going with that shell thing. /sigh

[LIB53]

I was testing KDE 4.3 I believe it is on the 9.10rc6 live CD and even on the live CD it ran very very good. Only bug I found was enabling desktop effects with the generic driver. It would cause xorg to crash and reload over and over.

Not sure if the previous release had them or not, but they have two clearlooks-styled themes in the themes list, I really like those.
I believe I am going to switch to Kubuntu 9.10 when it hits stable. I will have to play with the task bars a bit to set them up like gnome, but thats easy as pie.

One thing I thought was funny that I noticed. The fonts on Gnome are set at 10pt which is slightly to large, the fonts on KDE where set at 8pt which is slightly to small.. LOL Guess no one can agree on 9pt!!

Back on Topic:
Looks like more and more each day they are going to be going with that shell thing. /sigh

lol, going to KDE is sort of on topic i suppose. I'm a fan of simplicity so i might go to KDE and customize it a ton, or just go to xfce.

Does anyone know how this is going to affect compiz though? Another thing i didn't like about it was that it kind of takes over the stuff compiz does right now.

[Merk42]

lol, going to KDE is sort of on topic i suppose. I'm a fan of simplicity so i might go to KDE and customize it a ton, or just go to xfce.

Does anyone know how this is going to affect compiz though? Another thing i didn't like about it was that it kind of takes over the stuff compiz does right now.

GNOME Shell will be incompatible with compiz. It is planned to have Mutter do everything.

[Grimhound]

I'm not a big fan of the revealed design of GNOME 3.0. To be honest, I feel it's a step back in terms of usability. I installed and tried it, and all I can really say is that it grossly underwhelmed. It lacks any of the things a new design of GNOME should have. It gives up utility, features, and wastes screen space in favor of presenting an artistic concept. It takes away window notification entirely instead of expanding on it. It turns the taskbar into a worthless waste of space that exists simply to exist. In all honesty it breaks every rule of design sense in regard to its current state, and I'll likely end up turning to Xfce in the future if this is the path GNOME continues down. It's some sort of gross media center UI being applied to an operating system.

Summary of GNOME 3.0:
-Wastes screen real estate, which is increasingly scarce in the netbook generation.
-Takes away utilities rather than expanding on them.
-Sacrifices compatibility and features for an artistic purpose.
-Focuses on stylization rather than ease of utilization.

[Joe_Bishop]

I'm not a big fan of the revealed design of GNOME 3.0. To be honest, I feel it's a step back in terms of usability. I installed and tried it, and all I can really say is that it grossly underwhelmed. It lacks any of the things a new design of GNOME should have. It gives up utility, features, and wastes screen space in favor of presenting an artistic concept. It takes away window notification entirely instead of expanding on it. It turns the taskbar into a worthless waste of space that exists simply to exist. In all honesty it breaks every rule of design sense in regard to its current state, and I'll likely end up turning to Xfce in the future if this is the path GNOME continues down. It's some sort of gross media center UI being applied to an operating system.

Summary of GNOME 3.0:
-Wastes screen real estate, which is increasingly scarce in the netbook generation.
-Takes away utilities rather than expanding on them.
-Sacrifices compatibility and features for an artistic purpose.
-Focuses on stylization rather than ease of utilization.
I'm wholly in agreement with you, they were the words I wanted to say about this stuff.

[hessiess]

no: I don't like eye candy, it wastes precious screen space.

[Peter09]

I've started using gnome-shell and feel that it improves my productivity in various ways - mainly I find that I can use multiple desktops (something I never used before). It makes it easier to find particular windows/task across the desktop estate, and gives me much more usable room. Because it prominently displays Places and Recent documents it also allows a quick pickup of recent activities. Finally the search function is good for older or least used activities. The problems I have at the moment are:



I use a dual monitor setup, the activity icons are presented top right on my second monitor, not really in my field of view.
I think the minimized window functionality is not handled well
There appears to be nowhere to put icons for tasks you want to start quickly, you have to go through the menu system.
How does it handle 'launchers'


I know its not finished -so these may only be a reflection of work in progress.

[alex.rayu]

I feel I agree with the criticism. The worst thing would be if they added useless extravagance and did not have enough time to really work on functionality.

[myromance123]

GNOME Shell will be incompatible with compiz. It is planned to have Mutter do everything.

Thats worrying...things are just starting to work nicely with compiz for me too...

BUT!
I like how Gnome SHELL looks like. i have yet to experience it but vids ive seen on youtube make it look so nice.

I am all for it :D

KDE is still missing something in my opinion....

[Exodist]

Summary of GNOME 3.0:
-Wastes screen real estate, which is increasingly scarce in the netbook generation.
-Takes away utilities rather than expanding on them.
-Sacrifices compatibility and features for an artistic purpose.
-Focuses on stylization rather than ease of utilization.


Very well said.


Has anyone tried to post on the Gnome Forums about this?

[alex.rayu]

Power to the people!

[LIB53]

Summary of GNOME 3.0:
-Wastes screen real estate, which is increasingly scarce in the netbook generation.
-Takes away utilities rather than expanding on them.
-Sacrifices compatibility and features for an artistic purpose.
-Focuses on stylization rather than ease of utilization.

Not quite sure if i can agree with everything on that list.

Increasingly scarce screen real estate on netbooks? Wouldn't resolutions only be getting higher? I can see your point however when you consider how we're shrinking physical screens in general. They are however concerned with screen real estate, but maybe not as much as you particularly would like. If you go back up to my mock up earlier in this thread, it wastes screen real estate, and when i asked why they don't use horizontal bars in the IRC someone said it isn't that way because they want to utilize more screen space and minimize mouse movement.

But even still, i personally feel they're still wasting screen estate with all that launching nonsense in the overview. It's so much easier to use an intuitive launching method such as a dock or menus or gnome-do. All this dragging and dropping to load an app is too much mouse movement to me.

[Merk42]

Very well said.


Has anyone tried to post on the Gnome Forums about this?

The GNOME Shell Mailing List (http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list) would be a better place. Of course I have posted my issues with GNOME Shell and provided ideas for solutions, but get 0 responses.

[LIB53]

The GNOME Shell Mailing List (http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list) would be a better place. Of course I have posted my issues with GNOME Shell and provided ideas for solutions, but get 0 responses.

Mind sharing your ideas here?

[Merk42]

Mind sharing your ideas here?

oh just really small tweaks, like how the overlay mode has a big amount of unused space at top so that could be used for open programs or a calendar.

the - sign is on the workspace, while the + is always in the lower right. Making closing multiple workspace a PITA with a lot of mouse movement and also creating the change of going to workspace when you mean to delete it or vice versa

[Peter09]

Hi,
I cannot say that I agree with those who feel that gnome-shell reduces the size of the workspace. Effectively, the overlay mode replaces the use of a dock in selecting applications and active tasks. The actual desktop is the same size as standard, and because gnome-shell eases the use of multiple desktops it becomes easier to use the expanded space.

I have several machines, including a dual monitor system and a netbook. Gnome-shell provides many benefits on the netbook because on a small screen it is difficult to use non-maximized windows. With gnome-shell I use maximized windows on several desktops.

On my more powerful desktop machine I find that I use more desktops to separate distinct activities.

While all of this is possible using the standard gnome desktop, gnome-shell provides a simpler and slicker way of doing it.

Gnome-shell is still missing quite a lot of functionality, I believe if this is incorporated as it develops then it will turn into a great interface.

I think that a lot of development time has been pushed towards the overlay mode, leaving the desktop mode somewhat lacking. I wait to see where things go.:)

[Exodist]

While I dislike Gnome-Shell, I feel it should be included as an option for those who do like it.

Now the question is. Is it an optional application with Gnome3.0, or is a mandatory application that everyone will be forced to use that use Gnome?

EDIT:
I posted this question here on the Gnome Forums to see if we get a response. Dont hold your breadth tho..

http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=59117#59117

[Giant Speck]

I hate change for the sake of change and not change for the sake of making something better. From what I've seen and read about Gnome-Shell, that's what I honestly think about it.

What would be nice, though, is if Gnome-Shell was something that ran on top of Gnome, much like Compiz does, so that the user has the option to use it if they want to and disable it if they don't.

[Incendia]

Yeah, i know but it's not going to change unless people come up with an idea. Right now i'm thinking that the bar on the left should be horizontal. I attached my incomplete mockup.Additional Options


That one looks pretty.

[BradwJensen]

While I dislike Gnome-Shell, I feel it should be included as an option for those who do like it.

Now the question is. Is it an optional application with Gnome3.0, or is a mandatory application that everyone will be forced to use that use Gnome?

EDIT:
I posted this question here on the Gnome Forums to see if we get a response. Dont hold your breadth tho..

http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=59117#59117


I would really love to know this answer too.. As I personally think GNOME Shell is a horrible design, technically speaking. It's taking optional applications (which are like large plugins) that already exist, and making them, possibly, mandatory.

I like how GNOME, today, is just a OS that works, not much is mandatory.. And if someone needs something, they install an application, which is really nothing more than a large plugin (like those on Firefox) to extend it's functionality. That is what makes GNOME and Windows so easy and great to use.

Mandatory applications are what most people tend to have large issues with, and hopefully GNOME Shell will be optional, not mandatory.

If it turns out GNOME Shell is mandatory, I will definitely not be updating GNOME for a loooong time.. I may even go back to Windows.. :(

Huge bummer.

[Merk42]

If it turns out GNOME Shell is mandatory, I will definitely not be updating GNOME for a loooong time.. I may even go back to Windows.. :(

Huge bummer.

Why would you do something so drastic as go back to Windows when there is KDE and Xfce? Windows 7 also has its fair share of interface changes anyway.



Again if people are interested in GNOME Shell one way or the other, there is the mailing list (http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list) and design document (http://www.gnome.org/~mccann/shell/design/GNOME_Shell-20090705.pdf). Keep in mind at the time of this writing GNOME Shell is very early, and hopefully malleable, so contribute to help it go in the direction you'd like. However, 'make it like GNOME2' is not an option. Think of ways GNOME Shell can be improved not how it can be reset.

[Exodist]

Its been two days and still no response from the GNOME devs. Seems they have got to distracted from their user base. Which isnt good.

Good news is XFCE is quickly becoming a very valid replacement for Gnome. Seems its got all the kewlness of Gnome without any bloat.

[BradwJensen]

Why would you do something so drastic as go back to Windows when there is KDE and Xfce? Windows 7 also has its fair share of interface changes anyway.

The new Xubuntu seems well.. I have tried Windows 7 for awhile and it's actually not that bad or crazy with changes. I think the changes in Win7 are really for the better. None of the changes are drastic, only small visual improvements with a little extra functionality. It doesn't break anything, but it allows other applications to integrate more with the system.

Why should Gnome remake and bundle, by default, applications that already exist, when Gnome SHOULD be making it easier for these applications to integrate better with the system?

Compiz-fusion already gives me multiple work areas, and the easiest/fastest ways to switch between them (I can choose how I want to). It also has great ways to super + tab and alt + tab between applications, plus many other customizable features (nothing is forced when I install Compiz-fusion, it's all optional). I heard that Gnome shell breaks Compiz.

Gnome Do allows me to quickly launch any application, and to do tons of other things. The Docky interface for Gnome Do allows me to store my apps on a dock, where I only need one click to launch an application or to switch to the application that I want at any given time. It seems that Gnome shell will have me click more than one button to get to the application that I want to work with.

It seems that Gnome Shell is making things harder to accomplish, and it's trying to replace applications which already exist and work excellent with Gnome. It seems like they're moving backwards.

At least that is what I understand..

EDIT:
I was searching around, and it seems that there are a lot of people who feel the same way as me about this new shell: http://lizards.opensuse.org/2009/05/16/a-quick-tour-of-gnome-shell/#comments

[Merk42]

Don't get me wrong, I do like Windows 7 and also dislike GNOME Shell (as it currently is).

My point was due to program compatibility, and possibly workflow, switching to KDE or Xfce would be less of a switch than Windows.

[BradwJensen]

My point was due to program compatibility, and possibly workflow, switching to KDE or Xfce would be less of a switch than Windows.

Yeah, I would miss a lot of nice features and apps by switching to Windows. Though, I would finally be able to use Adobe apps again.. :/ It's a shame Adobe doesn't make creative suite for Linux.

Xubuntu looks like a good alternative. I'm starting to think that Gnome Shell will be possible to turn off (I hope.) That's all I really want an answer to: Will Gnome Shell be mandatory? Will I be able to revert back to Gnome Panel, and use Compiz-Fusion? ..I do like the Gnome Shell Panel (just not the Activities menu stuff.)

[Exodist]

@Brad,
I have been trying to get an answer from the Devs on this. But they are ignoring everyone.

[Peter09]

Must have missed it - but just discovered that Gnome-Do runs very nicely as a dock in gnome-shell.

[gjoellee]

I don't like the gnome shell concept at all actually

[kazamx]

Everyone loves the cube. Its one of the most destinctive features of Linux for a lot of noobies like me.

I find it sad that rather than trying to integrate and give the user the choice the devs decide to just break it. I will be really sad if they take my cube from me. I just hope that some smart geek out there works out a way to get it back.

[ibuclaw]

Everyone loves the cube. Its one of the most destinctive features of Linux for a lot of noobies like me.

I find it sad that rather than trying to integrate and give the user the choice the devs decide to just break it. I will be really sad if they take my cube from me. I just hope that some smart geek out there works out a way to get it back.

I don't love the cube.

And secondly, it is still your choice, gnome-shell is written to be just as easy to put on as it is to take off.

Here is a thread on Gnome-Shell running instead of KWin (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1288156) inside the KDE desktop environment.

Regards
Iain

[coldReactive]

I don't love the cube.

And secondly, it is still your choice, gnome-shell is written to be just as easy to put on as it is to take off.

Here is a thread on Gnome-Shell running instead of KWin (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1288156) inside the KDE desktop environment.

Regards
Iain

Doesn't look like that thread mentions how to take it off, out of GNOME, when it becomes the default. :| Which I'd like to know how to.

[ibuclaw]

Doesn't look like that thread mentions how to take it off, out of GNOME, when it becomes the default. :| Which I'd like to know how to.

Exhibit 1)
compiz --replace & disown

Exhibit 2)
Open gconf-editor and browse to
/desktop/gnome/session/required_components
Change the windowmanager key from "gnome-shell" to "compiz" or "metacity" (or "mutter", which is metacity's natural successor).
This will be the new location of where you will change the windowmanager as of Karmic and onwards.

Regards
Iain

[coldReactive]

Exhibit 1)
compiz --replace & disown

Exhibit 2)
Open gconf-editor and browse to
/desktop/gnome/session/required_components
Change the windowmanager key from "gnome-shell" to "compiz" or "metacity" (or "mutter", which is metacity's natural successor).
This will be the new location of where you will change the windowmanager as of Karmic and onwards.

Regards
Iain

Thank you kindly :D But what about gnome-panel, will we have to add that to sessions when we do this?

[Merk42]

For those that don't like GNOME Shell, why don't you subscribe to the mailing list and post ideas there to try and get the final version to something you'd like?

[Joe_Bishop]

For those that don't like GNOME Shell, why don't you subscribe to the mailing list and post ideas there to try and get the final version to something you'd like?
Remove overlay ;)

[Merk42]

Remove overlay ;)

I know you're being sarcastic, as suggestions like that would be ignored.

As I often said when Windows 7 was in development, and have said in the other GNOME Shell thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1150357): Present ideas on how the interface can be improved not on how it can be reset

[Joe_Bishop]

I know you're being sarcastic, as suggestions like that would be ignored.

As I often said when Windows 7 was in development, and have said in the other GNOME Shell thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1150357): Present ideas on how the interface can be improved not on how it can be reset
This crap can't be improved, this approach leads to deadlock, it only suits Media Centers and similar stuff, but not UI which people use all day. They better rewrite current horrible gnome-panel and nautilus, add grid support and devilspie capabilites into metacity than make such an ugly technodemo.

[Merk42]

This crap can't be improved, this approach leads to deadlock, it only suits Media Centers and similar stuff, but not UI which people use all day. They better rewrite current horrible gnome-panel and nautilus, add grid support and devilspie capabilites into metacity than make such an ugly technodemo.

Nautilus? I don't see any change to Nautilus.

Like I said, 'suggestions' of "put it all back, this is crap" (or even something written nicer) will be ignored.
All I'm saying is find out specifically what you don't like and give a provide a solution. Make your voice heard in the mailing list (http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list)
Why don't you like the interface? I know why I don't, but I don't want to speak for you.
Don't get me wrong, I don't much like the way GNOME Shell is either, and I expect a giant shitstorm to happen once Ubuntu 10.10 hits release or testing (10.04 will use the GNOME 2.X UI)

[Joe_Bishop]

Why don't you like the interface?
1) Overlay switches context. It attracts too much attention to effects, I still prefer current menus to open apps. I hate "most used" lists and always try to remove them, they seem to be unusable in most cases.
2) The appearance is really ugly. I'm not a person who thinks "blacky == elegant", I think the black color is a choice of mindless designer, his last hope.

[Joe_Bishop]

1) Overlay switches context. It attracts too much attention to effects, I still prefer current menus to open apps. I hate "most used" lists and always try to remove them, they seem to be unusable in most cases.
2) The appearance is really ugly. I'm not a person who thinks "blacky == elegant", I think the black color is a choice of mindless designer, his last hope.
And see how their panel was changed: it only listed currently opened apps and recently used docs at the sidebar. Today it looks like Applications-Places-System (oops, Applications-Places) gnome-panel applet replacement. But I don't need to see all these flashy uglies when opening a calculator to compute something to send to IM contact, etc. Because talking through IM and using calculator belong to the same activity in this case (so, it shows how wrong gnome-shell approach is -- it suits worse even for activities management than current universal approach, although it was their goal to provide better activities support).

[Merk42]

Okay so we do pretty much agree on things. Except for the black, my understanding is that part won't be themeable so they'd have to pick something that went with everything (or most things)

Have you brought any of this up at the mailing list I keep mentioning?

[duanedesign]

I am enjoying using Gnome Shell. There is a ways to go but this is definitely the start of something great. It is nice to see Open Source software taking some initiative in the redesigning of the tired Desktop system. For too long proprietary software has been the standard with which to judge open source software. “If you can make a program that is FOSS and make it as good as proprietary software that is considered a success.” Too much of open source software is modeled after proprietary work. Here is a chance for FOSS to set the standard.

Please participate in the process if you have comments or concerns. There is an IRC channel, a mailing list and a place to contribute code, designs, and observations.
http://tinyurl.com/gnomeShell

[qamelian]

Remove overlay ;)

I hope NOT! The overlay is one of my favourite parts of Gnome-shell!

[Joe_Bishop]

I hope NOT! The overlay is one of my favourite parts of Gnome-shell!
It seems you like technodemos. In my opinion overlay for gnome-shell is cube+wobbly windows for compiz. But it's very bad these guys made all their stuff around overlay, so it would be very painfull to use it for normal users who want to work, but not to see gnome-shell and reboot to windows again like you.

[qamelian]

It seems you like technodemos. In my opinion overlay for gnome-shell is cube+wobbly windows for compiz. But it's very bad these guys made all their stuff around overlay, so it would be very painfull to use it for normal users who want to work, but not to see gnome-shell and reboot to windows again like you.

No, I like features that improve usability for me. I like because I do want to work and Gnome-shell contains features that assist my workflow and work more the way I prefer to get jobs done quickly. Your assumptions about me are completely wrong.

[Merk42]

No, I like features that improve usability for me. I like because I do want to work and Gnome-shell contains features that assist my workflow and work more the way I prefer to get jobs done quickly. Your assumptions about me are completely wrong.

How does it assist your workflow in a way the 2.X UI didn't?

[Joe_Bishop]

No, I like features that improve usability for me. I like because I do want to work and Gnome-shell contains features that assist my workflow and work more the way I prefer to get jobs done quickly. Your assumptions about me are completely wrong.
Listen, I'm using GNU/Linux + Gnome both at job and at home. I uses compiz at job, because I need some stuff what metacity doesn't have -- grid, previews, etc. At home I uses metacity, because most time I have only chromium-browser windows opened. Well, sometimes I use gnome-terminal, but it's not a pain to switch with Alt+Tab. And animations are evil: I made them two times faster in work.

So, I've first tried gnome-shell at home and it seemed to be quite convenient, but at work I've realized it's an amateurish stuff without any hope. Workspaces must be fixed in order to know how to switch to one I need. Animations must be faster at least in two times, overlay is a pure evil: launching apps and opening nautilus can be done without such a massive redrawing (i.e. without breaking the context). Oh, well, expose-like effects proved to be almost unused, because it's quite hard to recognize a window you need.

[LIB53]

Listen, I'm using GNU/Linux + Gnome both at job and at home. I uses compiz at job, because I need some stuff what metacity doesn't have -- grid, previews, etc. At home I uses metacity, because most time I have only chromium-browser windows opened. Well, sometimes I use gnome-terminal, but it's not a pain to switch with Alt+Tab. And animations are evil: I made them two times faster in work.

So, I've first tried gnome-shell at home and it seemed to be quite convenient, but at work I've realized it's an amateurish stuff without any hope. Workspaces must be fixed in order to know how to switch to one I need. Animations must be faster at least in two times, overlay is a pure evil: launching apps and opening nautilus can be done without such a massive redrawing (i.e. without breaking the context). Oh, well, expose-like effects proved to be almost unused, because it's quite hard to recognize a window you need.

Well, is gnome shell supposed to be aimed at home users? I hope it isn't unless they have plans to make a shell focused on office use. Personally though, i always thought a desktop environment should simply be flexible and that the default layout should be just a friendly suggestion. Really unfortunate that I've heard very little about customization so far.

[Joe_Bishop]

Well, is gnome shell supposed to be aimed at home users? I hope it isn't unless they have plans to make a shell focused on office use. Personally though, i always thought a desktop environment should simply be flexible and that the default layout should be just a friendly suggestion. Really unfortunate that I've heard very little about customization so far.
May be, they have aimed it for office needs, but I didn't feel it. My expirience with g-s at my workplace was disappointing, although it was OK at home.

[qamelian]

Listen, I'm using GNU/Linux + Gnome both at job and at home. I uses compiz at job, because I need some stuff what metacity doesn't have -- grid, previews, etc. At home I uses metacity, because most time I have only chromium-browser windows opened. Well, sometimes I use gnome-terminal, but it's not a pain to switch with Alt+Tab. And animations are evil: I made them two times faster in work.

So, I've first tried gnome-shell at home and it seemed to be quite convenient, but at work I've realized it's an amateurish stuff without any hope. Workspaces must be fixed in order to know how to switch to one I need. Animations must be faster at least in two times, overlay is a pure evil: launching apps and opening nautilus can be done without such a massive redrawing (i.e. without breaking the context). Oh, well, expose-like effects proved to be almost unused, because it's quite hard to recognize a window you need.
I use it at home and at work too. All I can say is I disagree with you.

[qamelian]

How does it assist your workflow in a way the 2.X UI didn't?
All I can really tell you is that the whole environment just feels more natural to me. I know it won't be the case with everyone, but the way Gnome-shell works, with a few quibbles, is almost exactly what I personally have been looking for in a desktop environment for many years.

[Merk42]

All I can really tell you is that the whole environment just feels more natural to me. I know it won't be the case with everyone, but the way Gnome-shell works, with a few quibbles, is almost exactly what I personally have been looking for in a desktop environment for many years.

I hate this answer, I don't like it and whenever I ask ANYONE why they do, I never get a real answer. I get what seems like marketing talk.

I could spell out specifically what I don't like about GNOME Shell, but I have yet to see someone spell out specifically what they like about GNOME Shell.

[jjcv]

I like where gnome-shell is going. Have been using it for a couple of weeks now in conjunction with AWN. The two work well together.

It is early days yet with lots still to do.

I would like to see some options to be able to play around with the "Overview" layout. To be able to customize aspects to where I want to see, them e.g. I don't really want a "Recent Documents" menu so that can go for me.

The top bar on the desktop is coming along also. Be nice to have an option to turn it off or hid it while leaving the activity corner active.

Alt-tab switcher is great and makes is easy to switch between applications if there are not too many running.

Looking forward to its development and providing feedback.

[Merk42]

Alt-tab switcher is great and makes is easy to switch between applications if there are not too many running.

So one of the good things about GNOME Shell is something that already exists in the older UI :confused:

[joplass]

Is there an option to go back to old Gnome just in case? :rolleyes:

[Niko Johnson]

i choose Gnome over KDE

[Merk42]

i choose Gnome over KDE

Um, no one said anything about KDE.

[qamelian]

I hate this answer, I don't like it and whenever I ask ANYONE why they do, I never get a real answer. I get what seems like marketing talk.

I could spell out specifically what I don't like about GNOME Shell, but I have yet to see someone spell out specifically what they like about GNOME Shell.
I don't really care if you hate my answer. I can't specifically tell you why I hate the colour green either but it doesn't change the fact that I do. Frankly, I don't like many of your complaints about Gnome-shell because from my perspective, they don't make any sense. You're still entitled to you opinion though and I'm not going to give you grief over it.

I do like the workspace model in Gnome-shell better than the existing model. I also like the searchability in the menu, so I no longer need a separate app like Gnome-do.

I don't really care if you understand or like my reasons or lack thereof for preferring Gnome-shell.

[Merk42]

I do like the workspace model in Gnome-shell better than the existing model. I also like the searchability in the menu, so I no longer need a separate app like Gnome-do.

Thank you, those are the sort of answers I do like. Because you can easily compare old with new. I'll expand on what you said to show what I mean.

The different, tiled and scaled, layout of the workspaces of GNOME Shell, shows more information than the smaller less descriptive thumbnail of GNOME 2.X.

GNOME Shell has a searchable box thing to find apps and what not where as in GNOME 2.X one needed to rely on something like GNOME-Do.


Now I personally am used to being able to navigate an OS purly by mouse and never used workspaces at all. However, more importantly, I can now see how other people would prefer GNOME Shell, which I couldn't before.

[qamelian]

Thank you, those are the sort of answers I do like. Because you can easily compare old with new. I'll expand on what you said to show what I mean.

The different, tiled and scaled, layout of the workspaces of GNOME Shell, shows more information than the smaller less descriptive thumbnail of GNOME 2.X.

GNOME Shell has a searchable box thing to find apps and what not where as in GNOME 2.X one needed to rely on something like GNOME-Do.


Now I personally am used to being able to navigate an OS purly by mouse and never used workspaces at all. However, more importantly, I can now see how other people would prefer GNOME Shell, which I couldn't before.
Another point: although many people have complained about the size of the menu and the noticably larger text, some senior citizen users I support have tested Gnome-shell for me and find it easier to use as well. The text on the Activities menu is much easier for them to read and they find the text search for applications much easier than mousing through menus with sometimes shaky hands, which often results in taking multiple attempts to get at applications not used often enough for them to want shortcuts on the desktop.

In the groups I've been testing it with among my customers, only about 7% actually still preferred the existing Gnome 2.X interface after a week with Gnome-shell. For the record, my group of testers is relatively small at just over 50 users spread out over a variety of use cases.

[Merk42]

Another point: although many people have complained about the size of the menu and the noticably larger text, some senior citizen users I support have tested Gnome-shell for me and find it easier to use as well. The text on the Activities menu is much easier for them to read and they find the text search for applications much easier than mousing through menus with sometimes shaky hands, which often results in taking multiple attempts to get at applications not used often enough for them to want shortcuts on the desktop.

In the groups I've been testing it with among my customers, only about 7% actually still preferred the existing Gnome 2.X interface after a week with Gnome-shell. For the record, my group of testers is relatively small at just over 50 users spread out over a variety of use cases.

The size of the text doesn't bother me. What does bother me is the text under Applications (not once you hit More, simply the first thing you see). The application names are almost always truncated, and block the blue highlight. With such large icons I question why text is needed there at all.

Good to hear someone is doing test cases. I got the impression GNOME did test cases with existing DEs, but not what they had so far with the Shell

[qamelian]

The size of the text doesn't bother me. What does bother me is the text under Applications (not once you hit More, simply the first thing you see). The application names are almost always truncated, and block the blue highlight. With such large icons I question why text is needed there at all.

Good to hear someone is doing test cases. I got the impression GNOME did test cases with existing DEs, but not what they had so far with the Shell
I have a number of clients both commercial and home users, so I need to keep them in the loop about developments that will potentially affect their usage. I don't like to see my clients caught with there pants down when potentiall large changes are in the offing. It pays huge dividends to get them actively involved. It also helps uncover changes that might mean that a particular piece of software or even the entire distro may no longer be appropriate for a particular customer / group of users.

[kaicrr77]

I hate this answer, I don't like it and whenever I ask ANYONE why they do, I never get a real answer. I get what seems like marketing talk.

I could spell out specifically what I don't like about GNOME Shell, but I have yet to see someone spell out specifically what they like about GNOME Shell.

I can give you a few things that I've noticed right off the bat since I've been using it for a while now.

1) Reclaiming workspace from having too many windows open is easier. Case in point in Gnome 2+ (and compiz) lets say you have 4 windows open 2 on each workspace and you want to get to application you want on the second workspace. Currently you could do ALt+key or alt+tab. Now you may or may not see the application as it could be hidden behind another window or could be minimized. It will take you longer getting to the application you want this way. You could always spend sometime in compiz and configure everything to your liking but is a first time user going to do that? Probably not. In addition they are unlikely to have the compiz manager installed anyway.

In Gnome-Shell, simply hitting the super key not only lets you see the second workspace but the program you are looking for. If you can't really see the application, since the cursor is already in the "Find" text box you can simply type "gedit" or "amarok" or whatever and hit enter and it will take you to that application fully maximized no matter what workspace it's on. Imagine if you have 4 or 8 or more workspaces. Finding the application you want becomes faster than alternatives because it handles workspaces better. Try 8 workspaces on Compiz. It just becomes too clumsy unless you configure everything just right.

2) The text and icons for controlling the workspaces are larger. This might seem a little annoying however if you are a lucky user who has a touch screen you are going to able to move around Gnome Shell quite easily because you aren't trying to navigate tiny menus. Everything is big and easily seen and just about the size of the average human finger. It's probably the first WM I've seen that seems to be built for a touch screen. I've used Tablet PC's before and this on a tablet would be heaven with a OSD keyboard.

3)Gnome Shell isn't such a big change where the WM becomes unstable. When this releases core programs are unlikely to change initially meaning the core stuff, like nautilus or accessing icons on your desktop. Therefore for people who have used Gnome before it's really not that big of a change whereby you are struggling with the OS to find where stuff is, or trying to figure out whether your running a depreciated application or not. Since most of the other things that are apart of Gnome are likely to stay there until further incremental releases.

4)Previous workspace applications still work well with it. I like having a dock so I originally thought that installing AWN would be a catastrophe. Instead AWN actually works very well with Gnome Shell. To some extent it works better. Clicking on a icon causes the windows to slide on and off the screen with a pretty slick animation. I was actually impressed that it worked so well.

5) Getting to Recent Documents or Places is actually easier since all you have to do is hit the super key. That's it. You will see all of your places or recent documents immediately. This is something Gnome 2+ doesn't do compiz or no, and it's a real time saver if you've been working on more than one document as you can easily see all of the ones you've been working on previously. Also lets say you've got a document you've named "bonus", well "Find" works with those too. So you hit the Super key and type bonus and Gnome Shell loads the document and application in one go. This is waayyyyy faster than any WM out there in terms of that. It does movies and audio too. So you want to load that movie you didn't get to finish last night (it could be on another hard drive somewhere) it's no problem finding it and loading it relatively easily.

6) Gnome finally has a way to move mostly used applications to the forefront. You could always add a launcher but it's way faster to get your recent applications put on the overlay than it is to create a launcher which could be placed anywhere, and it could mess up your layout on your panels if you were using something like Global Menu.

So far this is what I've come up with. Considering these guys still have 6 months of development before Ubuntu's next release I'm pretty excited. It moves Gnome forward without breaking everything to dust.....PERFECT!

[Merk42]

5) Getting to Recent Documents or Places is actually easier since all you have to do is hit the super key
Yeah, let me know how easy it is to find the trash;)

So far this is what I've come up with. Considering these guys still have 6 months of development before Ubuntu's next release I'm pretty excited. It moves Gnome forward without breaking everything to dust.....PERFECT!

Actually they have a year, 10.04 will use GNOME 2.28


Thank you kaicrr77 and qamelian for giving your reasons for liking GNOME Shell.

Ohh 1000th post

[kaicrr77]

Yeah, let me know how easy it is to find the trash;)


LOL it's on my dock and desktop. But your right it's not on the overlay yet.

[pthiongo]

Am pretty much okaty with the shell as it is,its the hidden commands and additional functionality that are extremely difficult to execute thoroughly which was the same case with Gnome2

[leandromartinez98]

I just tested the gnome-shell here on karmic and I found
it spectacular. I will use it as default on my netbook,
since it saves screen space. But I think it is a complicated
interface for granmas, the option of a straightforward,
unidimensional interface, should be kept.

[alex.rayu]

And how is it from the functionality point? Video card, memory, processor stress?

[leandromartinez98]

And how is it from the functionality point? Video card, memory, processor stress?


I tested in a good but simple laptop, a Vaio VGN-NR11S/Z, which has 2gb RAM and a Intel GMA X3100 graphic card. It works very well, in Karmic, of course, because in Jaunty the Intel graphics performance is horrible. I don't think it is very resource consuming, but we need good drivers.

I have a question: After installing it, I had to launch it from the
terminal using gnome-shell --replace. How can I use it as my default
shell on login?

[Merk42]

I tested in a good but simple laptop, a Vaio VGN-NR11S/Z, which has 2gb RAM and a Intel GMA X3100 graphic card. It works very well, in Karmic, of course, because in Jaunty the Intel graphics performance is horrible. I don't think it is very resource consuming, but we need good drivers.

I have a question: After installing it, I had to launch it from the
terminal using gnome-shell --replace. How can I use it as my default
shell on login?

There's actually another thread in this Art & Design subforum (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1297693) with that exact question (and answer)

[jfost784]

I have tested gnome-shell in Karmic and I am not too fond of it. It makes me feel closed in. Locked up in a small cramped box. With the cube or desktop wall in compiz it feels like more of an open environment.

[Tuxoid]

quite frankly, gnome shell and gnome 3.0 will tank it's betterment. I really, really like the current gnome desktop. While it's true that some stuff needs changes, it is excellent, and going with gnome shell is overboard.

Usability these days just seems to be so obsessed with the 'pretty' factor, not just giving the user the frikin' information and feedback on screen. I blame Apple's Mac OS X for it. It seemed its aesthetics grew so popular, and had so much influence on the computer industry, everyone is either inspired to, or forced to conform to, aesthetics over solid usability.

Gnome seems to be next to follow suit, and this is sad. Gnome 2.2x is great. Sure, the current Gnome isn't perfect, but I feel as if Gnome Shell will cause more problems than it would fix them.

[alex.rayu]

Oh aesthetic is very important. But as Jobs put it, design is not simple how things look - it how they work, it's what they are. So, good design does not stand on your way. If it's an unneeded complication - then it's a bad design.

[Glucklich]

Increasingly scarce screen real estate on netbooks? Wouldn't resolutions only be getting higher? I can see your point however when you consider how we're shrinking physical screens in general.

I believe that it's not that simple, because it's not only a shrinkage of the physical screen. With that shrinkage, comes an overall lightness of the systems, which comes with not-so-capable hardware. So, you don't have the hardware to back up that higher resolution. That's why they did a Ubuntu Netbook Remix, which tries to adapt to that condition of less screen space. Well, now we're beginning to see nVIdia get into the arena but... I think, it will take another while until we can get real performance out of those things.

I haven't tested Gnome Shell but I've seen wonderfully configured systems on it. But talking about the default aspect, it seems to have good ideas but it's still very unpolished. These things take time, so let's see what comes out of it. Now that I gave my first impression, I really got to test it.

[LIB53]

I believe that it's not that simple, because it's not only a shrinkage of the physical screen. With that shrinkage, comes an overall lightness of the systems, which comes with not-so-capable hardware. So, you don't have the hardware to back up that higher resolution. That's why they did a Ubuntu Netbook Remix, which tries to adapt to that condition of less screen space. Well, now we're beginning to see nVIdia get into the arena but... I think, it will take another while until we can get real performance out of those things.

I haven't tested Gnome Shell but I've seen wonderfully configured systems on it. But talking about the default aspect, it seems to have good ideas but it's still very unpolished. These things take time, so let's see what comes out of it. Now that I gave my first impression, I really got to test it.

Well, this is supposed to be software for the future, and i was thinking that future meant the next few years. Technology goes a very long ways in just year. Just think back to the best mobile device a year ago... But i guess making it sluggish for now and anticipating the future wouldn't be that smart either.

[HalfEmptyHero]

I had been reluctant to try gnome-shell because I had heard so much crap about it, but after testing it, I am actually enjoying it quite a bit. I like how when I hover over the activities all my running apps are instantly lined up so I can easily switch them, and I like the search bar too. One thing that I think would be nice is to be able to close apps from the overlay, maybe with a middle mouse click like closing firefox tabs. I also think that clicking on any part of the Applications or Places or Recent Documents should expand the menu, instead of just the tiny arrow. But all in all, I am finding it very usable right now, hopefully they get some theming capabilities soon though, I'm not a fan of blue and want to at least be able to change the titlebar to a different color.

[darknuts]

The old gnome shell wasnt bad. The worst thing about it was it didn`t support compiz. The new one however, is just terrible. It looks like gnome shell married with unity and I hate the large icons on the left. Please bring back the old gnome shell.