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View Full Version : Do police officers in England use firearms?



Shibblet
September 3rd, 2009, 01:56 AM
I'd actually like to hear an answer for that from someone who lives in England.

ubuntu-freak
September 3rd, 2009, 02:22 AM
Not really. Only certain police officers are trained to use firearms and they are only called upon when needed.

hanzomon4
September 3rd, 2009, 02:34 AM
Not really. Only certain police officers are trained to use firearms and they are only called upon when needed.

Say What?!

zekopeko
September 3rd, 2009, 02:53 AM
Say What?!

You didn't know that? I thought it was common knowledge.

ubuntu-freak
September 3rd, 2009, 02:59 AM
Say What?!
What didn't you understand? If a suspect has a gun, the police try and secure the area and call for the Firearms Unit (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_Unit).

hockeytux
September 3rd, 2009, 03:03 AM
As far as I know a firearms unit also needs to identify itself as such; and shout 'Stop! Armed Police!' ... if an officer shouts e.g 'Halt, Police!' they are unarmed regular officers. They do carry batons and pepper spray though, but no firearms.

MikeTheC
September 3rd, 2009, 03:49 AM
It's amazing to me that this is a viable system (though I'm not going to stand in the face of reality and gainsay it.)

I can guarantee this would not work in a ton of other countries, the U.S. amongst them.

KiwiNZ
September 3rd, 2009, 03:55 AM
New Zealand has a similar system. Our officers do not carry batons as a rule either.

we have a special armed offenders unit to deal with fire arm incidents

ubuntu-freak
September 3rd, 2009, 03:55 AM
It's amazing to me that this is a viable system (though I'm not going to stand in the face of reality and gainsay it.)

I can guarantee this would not work in a ton of other countries, the U.S. amongst them.
Despite what you might read to the contrary, there really aren't many guns in the UK.

HappinessNow
September 3rd, 2009, 04:00 AM
EDIT: the OP's question was answered.

aysiu
September 3rd, 2009, 04:03 AM
On the contrary there are many guns in the UK in the hands of the criminals, just not in the hands of the police:

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2009/08/03/soldiers-smuggle-guns-to-sell-to-uk-gangs-claims-midlands-soldier-97319-24300460/
What's many?

ubuntu-freak
September 3rd, 2009, 04:07 AM
On the contrary there are many guns in the UK in the hands of the criminals, just not in the hands of the police:

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2009/08/03/soldiers-smuggle-guns-to-sell-to-uk-gangs-claims-midlands-soldier-97319-24300460/
Of course gangs have guns, but there are still not that many guns in the UK. Some have even resorted to converting fake guns into those capable of firing live rounds.

HappinessNow
September 3rd, 2009, 04:10 AM
Again: EDIT the OP's question was answered.

Frak
September 3rd, 2009, 04:14 AM
I can't possibly see how not having guns with the active police force is a smart thing...

Hell, I fail to see how everybody not having a gun is a safe thing. It's like nukes: if everybody has one, nobody will use it.

jrothwell97
September 3rd, 2009, 04:15 AM
Consider, though, that the Daily Mail has a history of being somewhat... creative with the truth.

KiwiNZ
September 3rd, 2009, 04:17 AM
This is not a Gun ownership debate.

A question was asked and answered .

HappinessNow
September 3rd, 2009, 04:18 AM
Once again, EDIT the OP's question was answered.

My Apology.

ubuntu-freak
September 3rd, 2009, 04:18 AM
On the contrary there are many guns in the UK in the hands of the criminals, just not in the hands of the police:

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2009/08/03/soldiers-smuggle-guns-to-sell-to-uk-gangs-claims-midlands-soldier-97319-24300460/

Also:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html#ixzz0Q0cwsI9E


Oh dear, you're using the Daily Mail to back your claim up? Firstly, violent crime can be anything. Very few violent crimes in the UK are gun related. Secondly, the UK records crime differently to the vast majority of countries in the world. Instead of classing a street fight as 1 crime, they record each attack, etc. So 1 fight could end up being recorded as 10 crimes.

michaelzap
September 3rd, 2009, 04:24 AM
That is clearly a politicized chart and not one that should be taken seriously (look at the source).

People who actually try to make comparisons of violent crime among developed countries note that it's difficult to do so because the definition and reporting measures vary so much from country-to-country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#International_compariso n

One thing everyone who studies the issue agrees on, however: Murders by firearm are far more common in the US than in any other developed nation.


Where there is a marked disparity between the incidence of crime in the US and all other comparable developed countries is in the per capita rate of murder committed with firearms. The most recent data show that the proportion of people in America killed by firearms is more than three and a half times greater than in Portugal, the next country of comparable development.

There's a lot of debate as to why that is, but I doubt that anyone seriously disputes that it's true.

jrothwell97
September 3rd, 2009, 04:26 AM
Yet the Source reads:

The source can say whatever it likes: however, statistics can easily be manipulated to suit a newspaper's political agenda. The Daily Mail has a history of using misleading statistical measures (http://www.mailwatch.co.uk/2009/08/21/mail-compares-apples-with-oranges-comes-up-with-bananas/) - whether this is down to the Mail's political agenda or down to lazy journalism is not for this thread to discuss.

hanzomon4
September 3rd, 2009, 04:30 AM
What didn't you understand? If a suspect has a gun, the police try and secure the area and call for the Firearms Unit (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_Unit).

I understood what you said

"Say What?!" Is an expression of shock, not a question... well rhetorical.

That's insane.. I couldn't imagine that happing in the States. It would be nice but regular citizens get pissed when you take their guns away, our cops would probably go on a tazing rampage.

winjeel
September 3rd, 2009, 06:30 AM
Well, the US is a little... very addicted to guns. Apparently of 100 people there are 94 guns, and second place is India, for every 100 people there are 4 guns. To me it makes, sense, if you carry a gun, you get shot at, so if you're going to rob or burgle, it's better not to do it with a gun... and not in the US (I've seen some American cop shows, the police look as insane as the criminals!)

Oops... corrected by Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership), in the US it's 90 guns per 100 people, and second is Yemen with 61 guns per 100 people (why do they need so many?!)

Mark76
September 3rd, 2009, 06:44 AM
New Zealand has a similar system. Our officers do not carry batons as a rule either.

we have a special armed offenders unit to deal with fire arm incidents

Are they all trained Ninjas, or something? :confused:

Bodsda
September 3rd, 2009, 06:48 AM
Police in England don't carry guns because it is not needed. There are a few exceptions, such as airports or political events there are bobbies with guns.

Hardly anyone in England owns a gun and if they do it is likely to be either a shotgun for a farmer or an air rifle for the hobbyist hare shooter. The police don't need to carry guns because no one else does, not to mention the fact that innocent people get shot.

The police and UK government are so corrupt anyway that firearms are not necessary for everyday enforcement. They just accuse you of doing something you didn't do and then when you defend yourself you get spraid with pepper spray, attacked by three officers, thrown in a cell and then they cover themselves with laws that are utter nonsense like the public disorder act which basically ends up with every copper abusing their powers and arresting people for no good reason and justify every arrest with breach of the peace.

For example, according to the local enforcement at Brighton town center, a congregation of three or more people is considered a riot and the rioters would be arrested if we did not 'move along'


I can't possibly see how not having guns with the active police force is a smart thing...

Humans make mistakes, and coppers are governed by laws. If you walk out of the wrong house looking a bit shifty in London, chances are good that you will be shot.

Who polices the police? The government
Who polices the government? The police.

So basically we have a viscious circle where police look after the government by not arresting mp's, and mp's look after coppers by passing rediculous laws. This system is corrupt!

KiwiNZ
September 3rd, 2009, 07:11 AM
I will ask again , please keep politics and gun ownership discussion out of this thread.
It would be a shame to have to close it because of a small number of spoilers

Thank you

Martje_001
September 3rd, 2009, 07:31 AM
It's like nukes: if everybody has one, nobody will use it.
Well, if nobody has a gun, I don't see anybody using it either..

sloggerkhan
September 3rd, 2009, 07:39 AM
Well, the US is a little... very addicted to guns. Apparently of 100 people there are 94 guns, and second place is India, for every 100 people there are 4 guns. To me it makes, sense, if you carry a gun, you get shot at, so if you're going to rob or burgle, it's better not to do it with a gun... and not in the US (I've seen some American cop shows, the police look as insane as the criminals!)

Oops... corrected by Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership), in the US it's 90 guns per 100 people, and second is Yemen with 61 guns per 100 people (why do they need so many?!)

In the US it's pretty common for people who own guns to own more than one.
For example, someone might have a pistol(revolver), pistol(semi-auto), shotgun, rifle(semi-auto), rifle(bolt-action), rifle(.22 bolt action). Though at the simplest it's common for people who own guns to at least have a pistol and a rifle. So if there are 90/100 people, it's a good bet that there are actually much less than 90/100 people who own guns.

frup
September 3rd, 2009, 08:05 AM
New Zealand has a similar system. Our officers do not carry batons as a rule either.

we have a special armed offenders unit to deal with fire arm incidents

Not entirely correct.

Firstly the standard appointments of a Police Officer in New Zealand are a set of Hand Cuffs, OC Spray, An ASP (extendible) Baton, Radio, Torch and First Aid Kit.

Secondly in the cities Sergeants Wagons have a mobile arms safe, all the stations do too. Nearly all Police Officers are firearms qualified and to graduate Police College you must have passed the training.

Unarmed by default, Arms available when needed.

AOS is a level above that, it is like the SAS or SWAT.

With the specific and advanced training, the AOS is the better option when deployment is feasible. Normal Police officers cordon off the area preventing the public entering the dangerous areas and the offender getting out. I'm talking Jan Molenar type situations here.

Mark76
September 3rd, 2009, 08:11 AM
No Ninja training then? :(

Giant Speck
September 3rd, 2009, 08:13 AM
No Ninja training then? :(

I'd love to live in a country that had highly skilled ninjas in the police force.

frup
September 3rd, 2009, 08:17 AM
They often get described as Ninjas. Some of them probably are that skilled, but it's not exactly the aim... yet. :P

Mark76
September 3rd, 2009, 08:17 AM
I'd love to live in a country that had highly skilled ninjas in the police force.

Japan? :D

koshatnik
September 3rd, 2009, 08:34 AM
It's amazing to me that this is a viable system (though I'm not going to stand in the face of reality and gainsay it.)

I can guarantee this would not work in a ton of other countries, the U.S. amongst them.

Of course it wouldnt work in the US. We don't have idiotic laws in the UK where anyone can own a gun, hence, the police don't need to be armed :D



AOS is a level above that, it is like the SAS or SWAT

SAS and SWAT are completely different things with completely different remits and competencies.

KiwiNZ
September 3rd, 2009, 10:44 AM
Thread closed - Gun control and politics.