"COMING SOON..." My Maxed-Out Pangolin : )

[Groucho Marxist]

This past Tuesday, I exuberantly purchased my first laptop for the rest of my time in college and the years to come. When confronted with ridiculously expensive Apple models and hilariously unreliable Vista-based PCs, I strove for a third option; System76. Below is a rundown of the various upgrades and accessories purchased alongside this sleek machine.

Pangolin Performance
- Bluetooth: Bluetooth
- Display Resolution: 15.4" WXGA Super Clear Glossy LCD (1280 x 800)
- Extra AC Adapter: Additional Adapter

- Extra Battery: Extra 6 Cell Smart Li-ION Battery
- Hard Drive: 250 GB 5400 RPM SATA II
- Hardware Warranty: 1 Yr. Ltd. Warranty and 1 Yr. Technical Support
- Memory: 8 GB – DDR2 800 MHZ - 2 DIMMs
- Operating System: Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty Jackalope) 64 Bit Linux
- Optical Drive: CD-RW / DVD-RW
- Processor: Core 2 Duo T9900 3.06 GHz 1066 MHz FSB 6 MB L2 (35 Watt)
- Wireless: Intel Wi-Fi Link 5100 - 802.11A/B/G/N Up to 300 Mbps
__________________________________________________ ______

Grand total (including shipping): $1917.77

Even the above cost is enough to brighten a consumer's day, especially upon comparing the above computer's features to the closest MacBook equivalent coming in at $3,599.

I will post images and a review as soon as it arrives, as I am overjoyed at the prospect of using a well-crafted machine created by dedicated supporters of Linux. However, until my laptop arrives, in the words of singer/songwriter Tom Petty, "The waiting is the hardest part (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLCJEYLIBQY)." :)

[Lee_Machine]

Enjoy, I personally went with less ram, and upgraded the monitor to 1680x1050. Ram prices go down quite fast, and are very easy to replace.

I have the last model of the Pangolin panp4n, and I enjoy it very much. FYI if you do run Windows 7 for games or such it runs quite well. Right now I use Win7 to replay Half Life Ep1-2.

I'm getting better performance than when I played it on XP with the same laptop. Actually I have all settings MAXED out on the games and the CPU run at about 45%. CPU being a T5800...which is no longer offered so I'm sure you will see even better results with a better CPU/GPU.

Enjoy:guitar:

[Groucho Marxist]

I have the last model of the Pangolin panp4n, and I enjoy it very much. FYI if you do run Windows 7 for games or such it runs quite well. Right now I use Win7 to replay Half Life Ep1-2.

I'm getting better performance than when I played it on XP with the same laptop. Actually I have all settings MAXED out on the games and the CPU run at about 45%. CPU being a T5800...which is no longer offered so I'm sure you will see even better results with a better CPU/GPU.

I bought Windows XP Pro solely so that I could play all of my favorite classic games (Oregon Trail {Someday we'll make it to Oregon without losing half of our party... }; Civilization III: Complete Edition... etc...). Concurrently, I'm looking forward to experiencing some open source FPS' on Linux such as Nexuiz and CODE RED: Alien Assault.

As far as the RAM went, I was willing to just shell out a couple hundred extra dollars in order to prevent myself from accidentally voiding my warranty. Furthermore, I do not feel "buyer's remorse" spending more money on the 8G's; I definitely agree with you that the price will drop in the coming months. However, I feel that with System76 the money I just spent is going to support a company that deserves our patronage, and at the very least, there's that.

[samalex]

Awesome configuration!!! I got my PanP5 a few weeks ago and am loving it! Also coming from an iBook, which I loved, my first inclination was to also go back to Apple. I didn't because of the cost. I gave ~ $1600 for my iBook in 2004 and around the same for my Dell Inspiron 3800 I used before that, which I bought in 2000. Both systems lasted 4-5 years so my goal is for the PanP5 to do the same or more.

For me though, I opted to stick with 4 Gigs of Ram and the P8700 2.53 Ghz processor, but I did up the display (which is BEAUTIFUL!) and hard drive to 500 Gigs @ 7200 RPM. I would've loved to have gone with a more powerful processor and more RAM, but it just wasn't in the budget. Maybe some day I'll upgrade the RAM, but does upgrading the RAM or HD actually void the warrant??? I guess I never looked at that. If so I'll wait until my year is up to make any internal upgrades.

But all and all I think you'll be very happy with the setup. I do have to ask, with all the more expensive performance upgrades, why not spend the little extra cash on the nicer monitor and larger 7200 RPM drive? Just curious.

Take care ---

Sam

[thomasaaron]

but does upgrading the RAM or HD actually void the warrant???

No. As long as you use components with the proper specs and don't fry your system in the process. ;)

[gamerchick02]

No. As long as you use components with the proper specs and don't fry your system in the process. ;)

That's a refreshing attitude. If you even think of opening a Dell or HP or Mac, you void the warranty.

Amy

[thomasaaron]

If you even think of opening a Dell or HP or Mac, you void the warranty.

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous.

I don't think we've ever actually had anyone damage a system upgrading components. (Knock on wood... :popcorn: ). We try to provide as much guidance as possible in the process.

The one thing that we *are* a *bit* uptight about is upgrading the BIOS. Since upgrading the bios can utterly reduce your computer to the status of paperweight if the process is done incorrectly or interrupted, we highly discourage doing it unless we've found that it fixes some bug and provide instructions for flashing it. It is rarely needed under Ubuntu. Most BIOS updates provide windows-specific fixes. We've definitely seen a few boo-boos on this one.

[samalex]

I agree... I've read too many stories of people bricking their stuff thanks to a BIOS update, so those things always give me the heebie-jeebies.

But maybe first part of next year I may look at upgrading the RAM in the laptop. As for the processor, is that upgradable as well? I've never upgraded the processor in a laptop, but I wasn't sure if it was soldered on or had a ZIF connector or what. Just curious.

Take care,

Sam

[thomasaaron]

Yes, it's easy to upgrade the cpu. Just remove the heat sync (a couple of screws), remove the cpu, and reverse the process.

Make note of the cpus listed on our configurator. You'll need to choose from one of those.

[gamerchick02]

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous.

I don't think we've ever actually had anyone damage a system upgrading components. (Knock on wood... :popcorn: ). We try to provide as much guidance as possible in the process.

The one thing that we *are* a *bit* uptight about is upgrading the BIOS. Since upgrading the bios can utterly reduce your computer to the status of paperweight if the process is done incorrectly or interrupted, we highly discourage doing it unless we've found that it fixes some bug and provide instructions for flashing it. It is rarely needed under Ubuntu. Most BIOS updates provide windows-specific fixes. We've definitely seen a few boo-boos on this one.

It is, but the way they do their business, they count on people "growing out" of a PC/laptop and replacing it with another machine. So, they don't want anyone to do any maintenance on the machine to upgrade it so they keep using it longer. (I hope that made sense...)

I've never done a BIOS upgrade/update and I doubt I'm qualified to muck with it. I'd rather send it in for that sort of work. RAM, HD, and optical drives are another story though. :-D

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Amy

[thomasaaron]

Good point, Amy (about replacing instead of maintaining).

[gamerchick02]

Thanks.

You know, I guess if you only spend $375 on a laptop (I was just in Best Buy today and the lowest end was this price), instead of upgrading, you'd go for another one. It makes sense, like buying a pair of $40 sneakers and then replacing them instead of getting them re-soled for $30.

It's too bad that computers are seen as a disposable item instead of something to use and upgrade as your needs increase.

Amy

[Groucho Marxist]

But all and all I think you'll be very happy with the setup. I do have to ask, with all the more expensive performance upgrades, why not spend the little extra cash on the nicer monitor and larger 7200 RPM drive? Just curious.

No worries, as I feel that that those are valid questions. :) I did not go with a higher res monitor, as my eyeglass prescription requires me to decrease my screen resolution, lest my eyes fatigue. As far as the drive goes, a friend of mine told me that although it would be faster, the 7200 would wear out faster as well in comparison to the 5400 drives; I took his advice and used the funds I had available to consequently upgrade the CPU and the RAM. On another note, I am thankful to own a 1 Tb external hard drive {with a faster one dedicated to video rendering coming soon}, which I felt was a dissuasion from upgrading the storage capacity of the laptop.

Could I have purchased external accoutrement parts and assembled them myself? Yes, but I chose otherwise. Since I am, in the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi, "Taking my first steps into a larger world," I have opted to not mess with tinkering with the workings of this laptop. This is not to say that I am not familiar or uncomfortable with DIY repairs or upgrades; just last week, I disassembled and reassembled my DVD HDTV player to remove a stuck DVD from the drive {My Toshiba did not possess a pinhole button for manually releasing the disc}. No, I mainly wanted a laptop that I absolutely knew would work, especially without my fumbling around in uncharted territory, as soon as I booted it up.

[samalex]

It is, but the way they do their business, they count on people "growing out" of a PC/laptop and replacing it with another machine. So, they don't want anyone to do any maintenance on the machine to upgrade it so they keep using it longer. (I hope that made sense...)

This used to be only true in the Windows world, but with Snow Leopard (OSX 10.6) not supporting PowerPC, that's what prompted me to look at an upgrade. My iBook is 5, going on 6 years old, and it still runs like a champ under OSX 10.5 Leopard. The problem I've ran into since Apple rolled out its Intel based systems is most new software requires an Intel processor now. They pushed the fact that they wouldn't leave behind the PowerPC users, but they have. So this is yet another case where the hardware will outlive the software, but the iBook has found a happy home in our kitchen were we use it to stream Sirius Radio and podcasts plus look-up weather, recipes, etc.

As for going with Linux on my laptop, one reason I ran with System76 is I hope to get 4-5 years at least from this system. The bell curve has slowed down to some degree, so hopefully what I have will run most software to come.

Take care,

Sam

[Groucho Marxist]

This used to be only true in the Windows world, but with Snow Leopard (OSX 10.6) not supporting PowerPC, that's what prompted me to look at an upgrade. My iBook is 5, going on 6 years old, and it still runs like a champ under OSX 10.5 Leopard. The problem I've ran into since Apple rolled out its Intel based systems is most new software requires an Intel processor now. They pushed the fact that they wouldn't leave behind the PowerPC users, but they have. So this is yet another case where the hardware will outlive the software...

I feel that what Apple did to their loyal customers from the PowerPC-era of Macintosh is contemptible at best. Furthermore, it is my understanding that Macintosh-makers expect their users to automatically upgrade to newer hardware as soon as said hardware appears on the market. This course of logic is not only wasteful (so much for adhering to the "being green" marketing fad) but downright fiscally reprehensible on the part of consumers.

...but the iBook has found a happy home in our kitchen were we use it to stream Sirius Radio and podcasts plus look-up weather, recipes, etc.

I'm definitely glad that the iBook was re-purposed to serve a useful function in your home; that, to my way of thinking, is an excellent example of recycling. :)

[gamerchick02]

I hope to get 4-6 years out of my laptop; that's why I went for something that had more "specs" than I really needed. I'm hoping it will last longer than something I could get at Best Buy (I spent a little more than I could have).

@samalex: It is true in the Windows world. I see people getting all excited about a new Vista laptop, and they get specs (3 gig ram, dual-core proc, 32-bit OS, etc, etc) and they think they have something. If it costs less than $500, most likely it will do for now, but it won't last beyond a couple years.

Good to hear about your re-purposing the iBook.

@Groucho Marxist: I don't follow Apple hoopla, but I do seem to recall that they'd said they wouldn't leave the PPC users behind. I agree that it's contemptible that they left people behind, but it's not unlike Microsoft leaving behind people running low-spec machines out of the Vista race. Don't also forget the "Vista-capable" machines that were not.

Amy

[samalex]

I've been a huge supporter of Apple for years, and one of the biggest Pro's I've always put on their side is longevity of hardware/software. My primary desktop is a 7 year old PowerMac G4 with dual 867Mhz processors (768 Megs/Ram), and it along with my iBook with 1.2 Ghz processor (also 768 Megs/Ram) both ran OSX 10.5 Leopard with no problems. Streaming audio/video, gaming (Unreal Tournament for example), and everything you'd want to run worked well. Things ran slower then they did on the version of OSX that came with each system, but still the latest and greatest OS never left me hanging.

But now that Apple has made an entire generation of computers legacy with not supporting PowerPC, I have to move this into the Con column, at least for anyone who has been using Apple computers for any amount of time. My thought for spending extra cash on the iBook was to get longevity out of it, and though 5+ years for a laptop is good, it could've been MUCH longer if Apple hadn't have pulled support. I mean heck, this thing still gets 3.5-4 hours on a single battery charge!!!

Sam

[miniyak]

8gb of ram is overkill (plus a huge jump in price last time i checked) unless you have an application or OS in mind that uses that kind of power, the memory usage will normally be under 1gb (mine is about 600mb).

Im only using 2gb with the 2.4ghz processor and my system is considerably snappy even when using something like virtual box. 4gb would probably be better if you consider VMs a big thing. Personally if i get into utilizing that type of performance upgrading by putting in another 2gb DIMM is an easy option.

IMHO the pangolin would be disappointing without the screen upgrade. If the option was missing i probably would have went with the Gazelle or Darter because of the plus of having something more mobile in terms of battery life. I guess squinting for letters can be an issue with eyesight though

[Groucho Marxist]

8gb of ram is overkill (plus a huge jump in price last time i checked) unless you have an application or OS in mind that uses that kind of power, the memory usage will normally be under 1gb (mine is about 600mb).

I'm an audio/video editor, so memory is extremely important; that, and I wanted the fastest machine possible for LAN party games with my buddies. Could I have gone with just 4 GB and called it good? Yes, but then I would not be able to humorously shout, "CRY HAVOC, AND LET LOOSE THE RAM OF WAR!" with conviction while wearing a bath towel toga during a LAN party. :D

I guess squinting for letters can be an issue with eyesight though

Absolutely; my best friend is also a video editor, and his vision has decreased significantly due to the stress his eyes have been under whilst using high-resolution monitors over long periods of time. Knowing myself and my visual deficiencies, I chose a screen resolution that was right for my physiology.

UPDATE: My computer's arriving tomorrow, so I'll post my review after I've had some time to play with it :)

[samalex]

UPDATE: My computer's arriving tomorrow, so I'll post my review after I've had some time to play with it

Congrats!!! The day mine arrived UPS said I had to wait until the first unsuccessful delivery to my home before I could pick it up at the warehouse. I work during the day so I wasn't home, but I work just a few miles from the UPS yard.

I ended up waiting at the UPS yard until 9:30pm to get my PanP5, and with it being a Friday I wasn't about to wait until the following Monday to get it :) Needless to say I was up late about the next 3-4 nights after that playing with it.

This laptop is quite awesome...

Sam

[Groucho Marxist]

I will keep the forthcoming review as succinct as possible using a “Pros,” “Cons,” and “Overall” format. If anyone on Ubuntu Forums would like me to relate information I have not covered, I would be more than happy to do so :)

PROS

Cost
For roughly $1917, I was able to purchase an extremely fast computer with CPU, RAM and additional component upgrades. Compared to Dell (my Windows benchmark) and Apple, this is next to unheard of.

Implementation of Function Key
Easy to understand and even simpler to use, the inclusion of the “Fn” key allows enhanced usability with the keyboard without adding unnecessary additional buttons.

Customer Support
I cannot stress enough how wonderful System76's customer support was. In an age of “out-sourcing,” I found it most pleasing to talk with an employee (in this case “Carl”) who not only helped me solve my problem in a timely fashion, but did not insult my intelligence in the process. (Case in point; Recently, my sister's laptop for graphic designing died, and a family member had to send her laptop away to the same major Windows laptop manufacturer she bought it from. After it arrived back from the manufacturer, the computer no longer worked [mind you, we never had a problem with it until we sent it back to the manufacturer]. A customer service employee helpfully recommended that we ship the laptop back again for a fee of roughly $300; they claimed that our 3 year warranty did not cover these repairs (it did) and that an additional fee of $300 (not including the shipping both ways) would fix the problem they caused. Needless to say, my family member dealing with the employee solved the problem on her own, and we are never buying from that manufacturer again.)

CONS

Battery life
Considering how powerful the CPU and RAM are within this machine, I am willing to overlook the fact that, without AC power, the battery lasts less than an hour.

Cover is easily smudged
A minor annoyance, but a highly visible one at that; monitor wipes safely do the job of removing smudges from daily use.

Start-up Guides
They are not very detailed in a way that helps Windows users migrate to Linux (which may be a potential "roadblock" for new users), while remaining potentially perplexing for new Linux users. This can be rectified rather painlessly through community interaction with both long time Linux users, new users and the people that can make this a reality.

OVERALL


I would highly recommend this laptop to dual-booters, hard-core Linux users or anyone else who would enjoy using a powerful machine at a, in my words, “ridiculously reasonable” price. :)

[gamerchick02]

Glad to see your Pangolian arrived safely!

I'm sure you'll get many years out of it.

The smudging on the case is a slight problem, but I use a wipe I got with my DS to clean it up. :)

Very good review and I hope you enjoy it a lot.

Amy

[samalex]

Battery life
Considering how powerful the CPU and RAM are within this machine, I am willing to overlook the fact that, without AC power, the battery lasts less than an hour.


This was a concern of mine as well, but after some tweaks I have it up to 90 minutes and even got almost two hours out of it once... but 80-90 seems to be average for me unless I'm doing heavy graphics or network tasks. Then yeah 45-60.

Sam

[thomasaaron]

I found it most pleasing to talk with an employee (in this case “Carl”) who not only helped me solve my problem in a timely fashion, but did not insult my intelligence in the process.

Please just bear in mind that, as tech support guys, we really have no idea of your experience with computers, much less Linux, when you ask for support. So, please don't be insulted if we ask some really basic questions. It wouldn't be because we're trying to insult anyone's intelligence. But you would be surprised at how often we find that a computer wasn't plugged in, etc... It's the nature of the beast.

Start-up Guides
They are not very detailed in a way that helps Windows users migrate to Linux (which may be a potential "roadblock" for new users), while remaining potentially perplexing for new Linux users.

This is a good point. We are actually seeing a huge increase in new customers who've never even *seen* Linux before! So, there may well be some more documentation aimed at this segment in the near future.

However, for now, there are a lot of books out there on Linux that do a much more thorough job of introducing people to it and helping them make the transition. That said, we put a lot of emphasis on helping people make the transition via email, forums and phone support. So, please don't hesitate to give me a call if you have any questions. That's what we're here for.

[HotShotDJ]

This is a good point. We are actually seeing a huge increase in new customers who've never even *seen* Linux before! So, there may well be some more documentation aimed at this segment in the near future.You could set up some kind of Wiki software and set up a System76 Community Documentation page -- I'll bet that System76 owners would write the documentation/trouble shooting guide for you within a few weeks so all you'd have to do is edit for accuracy and format for printing.

[Eldera]

Start-up Guides
They are not very detailed in a way that helps Windows users migrate to Linux (which may be a potential "roadblock" for new users), while remaining potentially perplexing for new Linux users. This can be rectified rather painlessly through community interaction with both long time Linux users, new users and the people that can make this a reality.

This is a good point. We are actually seeing a huge increase in new customers who've never even *seen* Linux before! So, there may well be some more documentation aimed at this segment in the near future.


I am 74 and isolated in senior housing without anyone to help with my computer. Until I unpacked my Pangolin last February I had never seen a computer with a Linux OS. I had just read some books and articles, and seen some screen shots on the net.

So I think I can speak from the point of view of a new user. Perhaps the things that gave me trouble and things I found helpful will give someone some clues about improving documentation.

I bought my Pangolin late in the period when S76 was shipping with Intrepid installed and had almost 250 updates which needed to be added. Even though I am familar with Windows Live Update, this seemed excessive and I panicked. I had to email Thomas Aaron on another issue and he re-assured me that there were so many because of the timing and to just install them all in one run.

Secondly, It took me some time and some reading before I understood what the "restricted formats" issue was all about.

On to another issue:
However, for now, there are a lot of books out there on Linux that do a much more thorough job of introducing people to it and helping them make the transition.

Personally, books did not help me as much as you might think. I read books for a year and a half before I got the Pang.
Given the release schedule of the Ubuntu Operation Systems a book is a couple of OS's out of date by the time it is printed. I needed help with the small details and trying to follow instructions very precisely from a book became very confusing.

I had the same problem with the Help material accessed from the panel icon. I started reading it through from beginning to end and ran into problems because some instructions were for Hardy and I was trying to practice them in Intrepid.

Where did I find really good help?

Best-Number One: The Ubuntu forum. I discovered the link from the S76 home page the day I ordered my computer. I started reading the new posts in the S76 subforum daily and went back to the point where they had archived the old posts and read forward everything that did not seem completely out of date. Often times I learned what I needed just by reading an answer to someone else. When I really got stuck, I posted or emailed Tom if I thought a question was not of general interest.

Number Two Source of Help: S76 Knowledge Base http://knowledge76.com/index.php/Main_Page

Number Three Source of Help: Using Google to search for tutorials. Tutorials on the net are more up to date than material found in books.

I think in reality a thick, detailed guide would be an impossibility. It would need updating faster than you could print it. I would concentrate on expanding the S76 Knowledge Base and keeping it up to date and just add a few tips about how beginners can find help to your shipping guide.(You probably would only need to add one more sheet.)

If you are still using sheets similar to the two shipped with my Pangolin last February, you are already covered with an emphasis on the knowledge base.

However, the article on Restricted Formats is stuck in the middle of a list of other articles.
I would give it more emphasis in a little note, something like:
Software to play MP3's,DVD's, and certain other media cannot be factory installed because of licensing restrictions. To install it yourself, see "Using Multimedia & Obtaining Restricted Formats" in the System76 Knowledge Base"

And a note to avoid update panic:
"Your machine will need to be updated. A pop up will offer you updates when you first go on the internet. Otherwise, from the top panel you can click System > Administration > Update Manager > check to bring up updates and then click "install". You may have anywhere between a few and a couple of hundred"

I would add a note, probably in the Ubuntu Sites:
System76 has its own support sub-forum at http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=341

And a note: Other helpful information can be found by using Google to search for Ubuntu Tutorials.

Are you still shipping the manuals that come with the case: Perhaps an explanation:
"The manual included is for the case on which your computer was built and includes information about Windows Operating Systems on that case."

Just some suggestions.

+1 to Groucho Marxist final comment
This can be rectified rather painlessly through community interaction with both long time Linux users, new users and the people that can make this a reality,

I found those people on this forum.

Cheers, everybody, Eldera

[miniyak]

You could set up some kind of Wiki software and set up a System76 Community Documentation page -- I'll bet that System76 owners would write the documentation/trouble shooting guide for you within a few weeks so all you'd have to do is edit for accuracy and format for printing.


+1 HotShotDJ, good idea... already done! http://knowledge76.com/index.php?title=Ubuntu_Getting_Started_Guide&action=edit

Funny though, I would have missed the edit feature if someone had not mentioned the idea. The word wiki obviously means community edit but that clearly went over my head the handful of times of been to the knowledgebase.

"Build it and they will come" is still a pretty tough leap even in the "open" world.

I hate to suggest this next idea because it is one of my pet peeves but i will. Maybe a removable link on the desktop of new s76 machines could drive new users to the knowledgebase.(there is the address in the intro paper but I think most are too excited about their new machine to notice) Advertising the fact that you can edit to new users would help the growth of the wiki. even though it sounds cheap for a typical company it is definitely ok for one praising open ideas, just be careful not give the idea that customers are on their own because that is most certainly not the case. I assume most s76 customers realize that they get a little extra community help beyond s76 staff. Like in the forums and by other means. I'm sure like HotShotDJ is suggesting many will give back once they have ether the experience and/or time, but not if they miss the fact that the opportunity is there. What better way to remember this opportunity then to find out when looking for help. Coincidently the help that one would willing to give a little back for.

"The sign of a genius is not knowing the information, its knowing where to find it" so with the right briefing anyone should be all set

There is all ways room for improvement but overall i think s76 does a pretty good job with orientation

[Eldera]

Maybe a removable link on the desktop of new s76 machines could drive new users to the knowledgebase.

This would have helped me.

Eldera