Adding forums link to Ubuntu Main Page

[az]

Bonzodog added this to the community council agenda:

"Adding forums link to Ubuntu Main Page as a tab at head of page instead of hiding it in the community area. This is quite important as the forums are an official part of the Ubuntu Community, and are a central place for new users to meet"

I never was fond of polls, but while posting this, I thought it would be interesting to see what people think. The answers are phrased tongue-in-cheek, but I think that turns a boring topic around...

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda

[majikstreet]

I dunno... it'll probably give more traffic to ubuntuforums, but it will be nice :) it's already on the site somewhere, so I dunno.... But.. I see people in ubuntu forum at linuxquestions... makes no sense.. there are offical forums lol!

[towsonu2003]

see people in ubuntu forum at linuxquestions
it is handy when this one is "down" ;)

I think it's important to emphasize the forums. I mean, it is my only resource for info on ubuntu, which means it is very good for newbies. thus it should be extremely easy for them to locate it.

I also think packages.ubuntu.com should be in the mainpage as a tab, but never mind ;)

[naaman]

I don't think the forums are important enough to justify a tab. A tab to Malone, packages.ubuntu.com and the Fridge are just as or more important than the forums.

The path of Support -> Support Options -> Free Technical Support is intuitative enough..

[az]

I don't think the forums are important enough to justify a tab. A tab to Malone, packages.ubuntu.com and the Fridge are just as or more important than the forums.


How do you measure importance?
-Is it by size (number of users or number of hits)
-Is it by activity (stuff happening or stuff related to ubuntu)
-Is it by the importance of the people who use it (bug reports improve ubuntu, The Fridge is an authoritative source of news about ubuntu-centric happenings...)
-Number of happy customers?
-etc...

[macgyver2]

I don't think the forums are important enough to justify a tab. A tab to Malone, packages.ubuntu.com and the Fridge are just as or more important than the forums.

I disagree, and I think the reason why is that maybe we're approaching it from opposite ends. I'm trying to look at it from the point of someone new to the Linux world. For those users (and there are a lot of them) the forums are more important than Malone and packages.ubuntu.com. For someone who's been around Linux for awhile and is just changing distros, then maybe the forums aren't as important. Regardless, they're still a big part of the whole Ubuntu community.

[ubuntu-geek]

I don't think the forums are important enough to justify a tab. A tab to Malone, packages.ubuntu.com and the Fridge are just as or more important than the forums.

The path of Support -> Support Options -> Free Technical Support is intuitative enough..
Thats a pretty interesting comment..

[Lord Illidan]

I don't think the forums are important enough to justify a tab. A tab to Malone, packages.ubuntu.com and the Fridge are just as or more important than the forums.

The path of Support -> Support Options -> Free Technical Support is intuitative enough..

I think the forums are the most important to anyone just starting to get involved in Ubuntu, and therefore definitely warrant a tab. Just my 2c...

[earobinson]

I disagree, and I think the reason why is that maybe we're approaching it from opposite ends. I'm trying to look at it from the point of someone new to the Linux world. For those users (and there are a lot of them) the forums are more important than Malone and packages.ubuntu.com. For someone who's been around Linux for awhile and is just changing distros, then maybe the forums aren't as important. Regardless, they're still a big part of the whole Ubuntu community.
I think the forums are one of the most important parts of ubuntus success. I would love to see us tie in more with the ubuntu community. I understand the reserves to keep a little distance, but as I see it the closer the better.

When I recomend ubuntu, I always recomend the forums with it.

[az]

the closer the better.


It's not all-or-nothing. If you build a bridge, no one is forcing anyone to cross it. It's just there.

[earobinson]

I guess what I was trying to get at is the more linked (as in actual links, and well members in both, and devs etc) (closer) the forums are to the rest of the ubuntu community the better.

[Seth]

I don't think the forums are important enough to justify a tab. A tab to Malone, packages.ubuntu.com and the Fridge are just as or more important than the forums.

The path of Support -> Support Options -> Free Technical Support is intuitative enough..
I agree. Until the forums are run by Canonical and its selected representatives, instead of a volunteer community, the sublink is completely adequate. The Fridge, Malone, Planet, and the rest are all official Ubuntu-run projects. Those are the projects that need top-level tabs.

[earobinson]

I agree. Until the forums are run by Canonical and its selected representatives, instead of a volunteer community, the sublink is completely adequate. The Fridge, Malone, Planet, and the rest are all official Ubuntu-run projects. Those are the projects that need top-level tabs.
Official Ubuntu Forums. Ubuntu Logo, Ubuntu and Canonical are trademarks of Canonical Ltd. from our site

[KiwiNZ]

I agree. Until the forums are run by Canonical and its selected representatives, instead of a volunteer community, the sublink is completely adequate. The Fridge, Malone, Planet, and the rest are all official Ubuntu-run projects. Those are the projects that need top-level tabs.

Why should the forums be run by Canonical staff?
It was created by non Canonical staff and built to its current size by volunteers. Is there something wrong with volunteers?

[az]

I agree. Until the forums are run by Canonical and its selected representatives, instead of a volunteer community, the sublink is completely adequate. The Fridge, Malone, Planet, and the rest are all official Ubuntu-run projects. Those are the projects that need top-level tabs.

The point of Ubuntu is for it to be a community effort, actually. Thinge like the technical board and the community council have been seeded be Canonical employees, but in the future, the plan is actually to offload those roles to the community.

packages.ubuntu.com is another example of community effort. There are many aspects of the distro that do not involve Canonical. There are no Canonical staff on MOTU, AFAIK....

Things that are "official" do not mean they involve Canonical - they only have to benefit Ubuntu and respect the Code of Conduct.

[Lord Illidan]

Which helps the most number of people? Sites like Malone, the Fridge, etc, or Ubuntu Forums?

Even though there is a sublink, I guess that a top level link, like the ones we have in the forums (Ubuntu Linux | Official Wiki | Download Ubuntu | Ubuntu Bugzilla) or a link in the sidebar in the main page.. (i.e., the index.html) would be more appropriate for something of this size.

I don't think many people would go on Community -> Forums immediately, but on seeing a link in the sidebar immediately upon viewing the main page, I am guessing they would go.

About volunteers, etc...Why on earth should this forum be manned by Canonical staff? Isn't the present staff doing enough good work?

[bonzodog]

um azz: I added that to the CC page. not Matthias Ulrich. I felt it was a justified idea, and would have to go through the CC as they are people who the final say on it. The forums are an integral part of the community, and I feel the main point of communication between users and the team leaders, devels etc.

[az]

um azz: I added that to the CC page. not Matthias Ulrich. I felt it was a justified idea, and would have to go through the CC as they are people who the final say on it. The forums are an integral part of the community, and I feel the main point of communication between users and the team leaders, devels etc.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda?action=diff&rev2=340&rev1=339

Oops! I misread the diff!

I will edit my first post promptly and go hide my head in the dirt.... I have done more embarassing things in my day, you know.

[manicka]

hmm, if Mathias didn't add it to the agenda, does that change the context of the poll? I can't really choose 'it's nice of them to mention it' or acknowledge who 'they' are, as the the author has mistakenly identified who set the agenda item.

Some very interesting comments from 'them' though in this thread.

[az]

hmm, if Mathias didn't add it to the agenda, does that change the context of the poll? I can't really choose 'it's nice of them to mention it' or acknowledge who 'they' are, as the the author has mistakenly identified who set the agenda item.

Some very interesting comments from 'them' though in this thread.

Actually, there has been a lot of that kind of outreach from the CC in the past few months. From them acknowledging that the forums community is *huge* in comparison to the number of bodies involved in the other channels (mailing list, irc, employees) and a number of other comments and projects (fridge integration, encouraging forum contributers to apply for ubuntu membership...).

"It's nice of them to mention it" can refer to a lot of similar things, if you will.

I really have the feeling that this will be a welcomed discussion in the CC, so that kinda does not change the context that much. I know for a fact that a lot of "them" are saying "it's about time" too.

At any rate, this is probably a healty thread and a way to increase awareness about the greater ubuntu community.

[ubuntu-geek]

Azz, I agree I am glad you made this thread. I am curious as to how this will play out..

[earobinson]

me 2, the bigger part we plat the better IMO

[Henrik]

Hi,

I'm the ubuntu.com webmaster, so it's my task to set up the tabs. The basic problem is that we have limited horizontal space in the header. We really cannot add more tabs without hiding the logo for those who use low rez displays, large fonts or just a narrow browser window. It would look ugly.

That said, I'm all for making a cleaner navigation path to the forums (and other important sites for that matter -- there are also some very active non-English forums, btw.).

It is quite natural to place the forum links under the 'community' section and also under the 'support' section. We recently moved the website from a Plone-based to a Moin-based system, and one of the advantages of that is that we now have more flexibility in how we structure pages and menu items (yay!). The base pages of the 'Developers', 'Community' and 'Support' tabs are all in need of a serious revamping now. So it's a good time to suggest changes.

The front page currently has a link directly to the Fridge, but this could be made more general to also include links to other community sites (ie. forums).

If anyone in the forums would like to give a hand with this, we can make it happen sooner (otherwise it will go in my very long list of things to do ...) Help would be appreciated with suggestions for improved structure of the above mentioned site sections. The more fleshed out the better (ie. complete pages with text, icons and links would be good). The best would be if we could work collaboratively on some pages directly in moin markup, so they will be easy to move onto the site.

So, that's my suggested way forward. I don't think this is an item for the Community Council just yet (though posting it on the agenda brought is to my attention, and resulting in my posting here, so thanks for bringing it up).

[timczer]

I am glad to see a comment from the ubuntu.com webmaster that he is open to working on improving the accessability to the forums. For my two cents, I was very new to linux (had used FC3 for little while, and messed it up pretty good) when I decided to give Ubuntu a try. One of the selling points when I looked at the distro was the raves that the online community was getting. The support from the forums is what has kept me using Ubuntu almost exclusively (tried Suse 10 and while it worked great, I could not find as much support for my issues as I could here with Ubuntu).

That being said, when I have gone on the Ubuntu.com site, it has always seemed that you have to go pretty deep through the site to find the forums. As the forums are a huge selling point for Ubuntu, they should get a more prevalent place on the site.

[earobinson]

Hi,

I'm the ubuntu.com webmaster, so it's my task to set up the tabs. The basic problem is that we have limited horizontal space in the header. We really cannot add more tabs without hiding the logo for those who use low rez displays, large fonts or just a narrow browser window. It would look ugly.

That said, I'm all for making a cleaner navigation path to the forums (and other important sites for that matter -- there are also some very active non-English forums, btw.).

It is quite natural to place the forum links under the 'community' section and also under the 'support' section. We recently moved the website from a Plone-based to a Moin-based system, and one of the advantages of that is that we now have more flexibility in how we structure pages and menu items (yay!). The base pages of the 'Developers', 'Community' and 'Support' tabs are all in need of a serious revamping now. So it's a good time to suggest changes.

The front page currently has a link directly to the Fridge, but this could be made more general to also include links to other community sites (ie. forums).

If anyone in the forums would like to give a hand with this, we can make it happen sooner (otherwise it will go in my very long list of things to do ...) Help would be appreciated with suggestions for improved structure of the above mentioned site sections. The more fleshed out the better (ie. complete pages with text, icons and links would be good). The best would be if we could work collaboratively on some pages directly in moin markup, so they will be easy to move onto the site.

So, that's my suggested way forward. I don't think this is an item for the Community Council just yet (though posting it on the agenda brought is to my attention, and resulting in my posting here, so thanks for bringing it up).
Its great to know you are thinking about this! And have looked at our Ideas!

[bonzodog]

OK, will remove it from the CC agenda... thank you henrik. It's nice to know my idea has been considered, and I appreciate you moving the homepage of ubuntu.com around. I know there are people in here who may be willing to look at this from a design standpoint and work with you on improving the design of the main page.

Come on people!! lets make this happen!

[Henrik]

I've added some community links to the front page now, including to the forums page.

We should probably improve the forums page slightly: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/forums Suggestions welcome. A representative screenshot of the forums might be nice.

More generally, I'd like to improve the following pages to be more inviting:

http://www.ubuntu.com/community
http://www.ubuntu.com/support

The 'Community Home' and 'Support Home' entries at the top of the menus are a bit superfluous and should be replaced with a root page with image links/icons for the various sub-sections.

And then there is http://www.ubuntu.com/developers which just needs some more content.

[Lambert]

We should probably improve the forums page slightly: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/forums Suggestions welcome


Now I'm no graphic designer, nor anything else really. And these may be bad thoughts.....

For the forum links is it possible to use a graphic? And two suggestions
1. Use an ubuntu logo and put the country flag in the center of it with the country language written underneath it?
2. Or maybe just the logo using the country flag colors and the language written under it?