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aysiu
January 30th, 2006, 06:30 PM
In light of these two threads...
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=689138
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=120693

... I'm just curious what people's actual experiences with Automatix have been.

s6dalane
January 30th, 2006, 06:36 PM
Automatix has been a great help to me and I think it's a very good tool for the starters.
Good luck to arnieboy and his great app!

tseliot
January 30th, 2006, 06:39 PM
It's a GREAT application and I find it fundamental because it does a lot of work for me (so that every reinstallation or new installation of Ubuntu is a breeze). Using Ubuntu has never been easier. I recommend it to all my friends.

Thanks Arnieboy. :)

ember
January 30th, 2006, 06:47 PM
I have used it and it saved me a lot of time - actually I cannot understand all that trouble about unsafety that occurred later on. I hope we will have Automatix for Dapper, too. It is definitely a befinit for Ubuntu.

Sp@z
January 30th, 2006, 06:56 PM
I have had no problems with automatix and certainly I wouldn't be using Linux if it wasn't for Automatix.....I just should have shut my mouth (fingers) in the thread linked above, but Arnie did a great job, so it was worth me getting slammed..

earobinson
January 30th, 2006, 06:57 PM
Automatix is great, never used it but it has done great things for the ubuntu community.

kabus
January 30th, 2006, 07:01 PM
I've never used it, and after seeing how the author reacts to justified technical criticism in those threads I certainly never will.

deNoobius
January 30th, 2006, 07:07 PM
Awsome, saved me hours of frustration getting my system set up.

xequence
January 30th, 2006, 07:22 PM
Other. (Please explain)

I havnt used it.

Yes, there are other "havnt used it" options, but those are not general. I havnt used it :P Not because of those specific reasons.

DigitalDuality
January 30th, 2006, 07:41 PM
It's a great application. I did most of the stuff i needed to the hardware before even trying out automatix for a few things.. but it seems like one nifty app. I quite like it.

KingBahamut
January 30th, 2006, 07:44 PM
He got a cool write up --

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,124519,00.asp#

h3xx3r
January 30th, 2006, 07:52 PM
I used it once in its early days, ( Hated the way you had ZERO control over its actions)
Never used it since. ( Mainly because I prefer to do things manually, If I wanted everything automated I'd use windows.)
I don't know whether its dangerous or not, I just don't use it.
I
Fair enough if a new user wants to use it, Then its up to them, But what happens when " one part" of their install fails ? , Because they've let automatix do its thing for them , They have no knowledge of being able to do it themselves, So they're always going to be dependant on it. ( Certainly not the Linux spirit I've been used to all these years.)
I'm not going to say Its dangerous ,As I don't know enough about it, But the issues raised in the discussions certainly leave me unsure,

and the way its creator has ranted on the last couple of days leaves me even more confused.
My vote was therefore. I prefer to do things for my self. !! ( In the spirit of Linux.)

briancurtin
January 30th, 2006, 07:56 PM
its been good to me, only used it once though. however, i dont plan to recommend it to anyone due to arnieboys posts and attitude in those threads, and im not sure if i will be using it in the future myself. i read the one thread yesterday and had enough.

xequence
January 30th, 2006, 08:00 PM
Mainly because I prefer to do things manually, If I wanted everything automated I'd use windows.

If you wanted things manual youd use apt ;)

Since when is windows manual?

dosed150
January 30th, 2006, 08:00 PM
id have been lost without it

bloodborne
January 30th, 2006, 08:07 PM
No problems here, it was my favorite program when I first installed Ubuntu. :)

h3xx3r
January 30th, 2006, 08:09 PM
If you wanted things manual youd use apt ;)

Since when is windows manual?

OMG I said if I wanted it automated i'd use windows. I didn't say windows was manual lmao.
& I do use apt .

mstlyevil
January 30th, 2006, 08:14 PM
I have set up Ubuntu both ways. I do recommend everyone try to set Ubuntu up manually at least once to learn a little more about how it works. But for those who do not have the time or paitience, Automatix is great. I used it on my last install and it saved me a lot of time and effort.

I can understand Arnieboys anger and frustation that he displayed in that thread. He took the comments by others too personal and said things he should have thought about first. I would be angry too if I created something to help others and was attacked from all sides for it. For those who thought Arnie was too rude you do not know the attacks that have been lodged at him in the recent past. There are always two sides to every story.

Malphas
January 30th, 2006, 08:15 PM
I've never used it but it seems to have helped out a lot of people. It's a shame the author has to behave in such an unpleasant manner on the forums. The "attacks" on him on the past from what I've seen were either constructive and justified criticisms/queries or brought on himself by his attitude

macgyver2
January 30th, 2006, 08:38 PM
I can understand Arnieboys anger and frustation that he displayed in that thread. He took the comments by others too personal and said things he should have thought about first. I would be angry too if I created something to help others and was attacked from all sides for it. For those who thought Arnie was too rude you do not know the attacks that have been lodged at him in the recent past. There are always two sides to every story.
Even if that were the case, to justify someone firing attack after attack at several users by saying those users attacked first is not right. I thought the rule is no personal attacks, not no personal attacks unless you are attacked first (then feel free to give 'em hell).

awakatanka
January 30th, 2006, 08:52 PM
It helps new people much, but if it does certain things it has to warn in front that it does it that way.

I have pointed some users to the app, but i don't use it anymore because i like to have control and i like to learn to change sources.list. But as said it could be handy for new users.

Have read also the 2 threads and think the author of the apps has a problem to get critics.

edit.

BTW i hate it when it overwrite my sources.list. But used it only a few times when i was wet behind the ears. Funny to see that there are more votes then posts.

ow50
January 30th, 2006, 09:10 PM
I haven't used Automatix as I prefer to install things manually, know what's happening and know how to uninstall. For a fast fresh install I'd rather keep a list of packages to install and run apt-get with that list.

I wouldn't recommend Automatix to newbies either as it contains some relevant bugs that arnieboy seems reluctant to fix. The "--force-yes" and "killall zenity" issues in the recent thread in my opinion demonstrate quite foolish programming practice. Also, arnieboy's childish attitude reflects poorly on Automatix. If you can't trust the author, you'd need to read the entire source to be able to trust the application.

mstlyevil
January 30th, 2006, 09:16 PM
Even if that were the case, to justify someone firing attack after attack at several users by saying those users attacked first is not right. I thought the rule is no personal attacks, not no personal attacks unless you are attacked first (then feel free to give 'em hell).

No one was justifying his attacks. I said he got too emtional and took things too far. I am also saying I have witnessed Arnie being personally attacked for creating Automatix. Both sides are wrong when it comes to personal attacks. Arnie could stand to learn to take criticism a little better even if he disagrees. This does not change the fact that he created a great program that has helped many newbies and people who are just too busy to configure everything for themselves. Much of the criticism that has been lodge towards Automatix was not valid. There have been some instances where the criticism was valid but much of the time it was meant to attack Automatix without no real input on how to make it better.

poofyhairguy
January 30th, 2006, 09:34 PM
It's a shame the author has to behave in such an unpleasant manner on the forums.

And it's a shame that often Linus acts like a di*k on mailing lists. But that does not keep me from using Linux, just like any of Arnie's posts should not keep me from using Automatix (I'm not saying Arnie is a ****, just trying to prove a point).

For the record I think Automatix is THE thing that makes Ubuntu the easiest free distro to use. Great stuff.

Plus I think its another great example (along with the forums, backports, the doc site, etc.) where an element of Unofficial Ubuntu has broken through the puritan ideal of Ubuntu to create a compromise within the distro community between the "Debian/RMS way" and "Just works."

Artificial Intelligence
January 30th, 2006, 09:40 PM
I have voted I haven't used it because I prefer to install things manually or use another method.

Because I like to manually doing my stuff. But I think it's a really good that there's automatix for those who won't.

5 thumbs up for automatix!

earobinson
January 30th, 2006, 09:42 PM
And it's a shame that often Linus acts like a di*k on mailing lists. But that does not keep me from using Linux, just like any of Arnie's posts should not keep me from using Automatix (I'm not saying Arnie is a ****, just trying to prove a point).

For the record I think Automatix is THE thing that makes Ubuntu the easiest free distro to use. Great stuff.

Plus I think its another great example (along with the forums, backports, the doc site, etc.) where an element of Unofficial Ubuntu has broken through the puritan ideal of Ubuntu to create a compromise within the distro community between the "Debian/RMS way" and "Just works."
poofyhairguy that is the perfect responce, said much better than I could.

xequence
January 30th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Speaking of Arnieboy, I havnt seen him around the forums in awhile.

earobinson
January 30th, 2006, 09:44 PM
hes looking at this thread right now

poofyhairguy
January 30th, 2006, 09:45 PM
poofyhairguy that is the perfect responce, said much better than I could.

Thanks, this is something I care about a lot.

xequence
January 30th, 2006, 09:48 PM
hes looking at this thread right now

xequence*, arnieboy, Artificial Intelligence, poofyhairguy, Sheinar, Spacecaptain

Good observation ;)

macgyver2
January 30th, 2006, 09:55 PM
No one was justifying his attacks. I said he got too emtional and took things too far. I am also saying I have witnessed Arnie being personally attacked for creating Automatix. Both sides are wrong when it comes to personal attacks. Arnie could stand to learn to take criticism a little better even if he disagrees. This does not change the fact that he created a great program that has helped many newbies and people who are just too busy to configure everything for themselves. Much of the criticism that has been lodge towards Automatix was not valid. There have been some instances where the criticism was valid but much of the time it was meant to attack Automatix without no real input on how to make it better.

Gotcha...I read too much into your post.

dada1958
January 30th, 2006, 10:40 PM
Here it works just fine, I like it. At my work I was cut off from the internet after installing it, though I have to tell that I'm intended to blame the pppoe stuff in Ubuntu and the crappy ISP.

Rackerz
January 30th, 2006, 10:51 PM
Very good program! No problems what so over, cuts of installing needed programs manually.

TechSonic
January 30th, 2006, 11:02 PM
Great program, just started using it a few days ago. ROCK ON DUDE!

plexi50
January 30th, 2006, 11:34 PM
I think it is fantastic that someone took their own time to make something so useful for so many people. It has been a time saver for new install after I messed a couple of times with learning and tweaking (grin). I have learned how to install manually, and believe it or not some from watching the script run in Automatix.
I know personal criticism can be very hard to take, expecially when you are doing something basically gratis, here you go, hope you like it. I know for a fact that I have hosed my install more on my own than this program could have ever done.
Let's try to work together here, like we do for the most part. I really enjoy this forum and the people who hang out here. I learn something everyday even if I wasn't looking for it.
No need to bash anyone...we are all learning from and teaching each other.

r4ik
January 30th, 2006, 11:49 PM
I use Automatix and see no reason stop doing so.
I tried to follow the "forced flag" issue and as far as i understood correctly it ended up talking about 0.001% and not beeing ABSOLUTELY sure.
I read both other threads also and was not impressed by some peoples behaviour.
No reason at all to stop using the prog.
Learning the command line is the "ultimate" Linux experience and Automatix doesnt stop me from doing that it actualy encourage me to bash the Terminal some more knowing it will be there when i scrw up things(agian).
Before posting i was watching A Chicogo oldies DVD on a complete Automatix setup box.
Cristal clear vision perfect sound. (25or6to4)
I would like to see Automatix in Dapper if it doesnt i dont think i am going to make the switch.
And that might just be the reason the Author is under such havely attack.
I whis you all the best Arnieboy !

Galoot
January 30th, 2006, 11:50 PM
I voted "other" because I've used it in the past, but I didn't inhale.

No, that's not right. I've used it before and it worked as advertised without hosing my system. Thanks for that, Arnie. But I will not use it again until its bugs and potential problems are worked out. Until then, I will recommend against using it to anyone who asks.

Arnie's got to stop punching the teachers who don't give him an "A+" and learn to accept a "B, room for improvement." Meeting valid criticisms with name-calling rather than bug fixes is no better than Microsoft saying "Problem? We don't have a problem."


edit: I'd also like to point out that the "I've run into Automatix-related problems" choices do not total 0%, as Arnie insists they must.

Obviously, some of the voters are lying in order to attack and discredit him. /sarcasm

raydekok
January 30th, 2006, 11:57 PM
love it and will use it again. saved me work what i could not do

mjkey
January 31st, 2006, 12:10 AM
I find Automatix to be an efficient installer of most current and popular programs. Arnie is to be commended for his efforts. Thank you Arnieboy.

angkor
January 31st, 2006, 12:39 AM
Looks to be a great script. I'll certainly recommend it to new users.

I haven't used it myself since my box has been set up to my liking since early Hoary. Don't understand what all the fuss and animosity is about though....and don't care, except it is a terrible waste of these forums.

macewan
January 31st, 2006, 12:42 AM
I think zeroconfig ****ed my networking up. This is on a Breezy install & after a reboot it hangs on network config.

drotter
January 31st, 2006, 02:09 AM
I've found it to be a huge timesaver. The only problems i ever had with it is that it changes your sources.list and i didnt think of backing it up before. Not a huge problem though.
I understand the argument regarding doing things manually. That is the whole point of this. But truthfully there are some things that I've just been to lazy to deal with (upgrading firefox or dealing with codecs).
Besides, for people new to ubuntu (and linux) its a convienant way to quickly get your old windows functionality and be productive from the start. That way the learning part can come on your own time...and its alot more rewarding when you can do that. Instead i think you just get frustrated trying to get all the functions that you are used to in windows. This gets the basics out of the way and frees you to move on to other things...
So for that i think that this should be commended...

geekphreak
January 31st, 2006, 02:23 AM
I haven't had any problems with it so far on Dapper or Breezy, I did have some trying automatix for Kubuntu, but overall, it's been a great experience.

poofyhairguy
January 31st, 2006, 02:28 AM
Don't understand what all the fuss and animosity is about though....and don't care, except it is a terrible waste of these forums.

Finally someone I agree with.

Arnie HAS changed Automatix because of criticism of others. He HAS accepted outside patches. He IS willing to help in most cases. Heck he has helped a lot of people with Automatix trouble!

He might not handle each situation the best way a person can, but he tries to help others. Fill a need. I have not helped as much as him. Nor has almost all of his critics. Should that alone make them shut up? No.

But let it be known that Arnieboy stands behind his work. You might think its crap or you might think it has flaws but then I bet you are not the kind of person that would devote countless hours to making a GUI for new users to use. Is it perfect? No. Is it the best thing possible? No.

Do I personally think its a million times better than copy and pasting things off wiki pages or an outdated Ubuntu guide? Heck yes.

And if you don't agree, you don't like it, or you don't like Arnie than don't use his work. Use the outdated fork:

http://robotgeek.org/blog/easybreezy/

Or make your own tool. Or don't use a tool.

Just remember that a person who has helped thousands has more social capital in this community than you or me. Is that fair or "just?" Maybe not in the eyes of a few. But it's the way it is.

Linuxland is a meritocracy. Either you lead or someone else will. Arnie said he will lead us until Dapper. Then which one of us is willing to step up to the plate? I would, but I know that I personally can't do as good of job as he has. But I will try if that needs to be the case.

Galoot
January 31st, 2006, 03:23 AM
You speak wisdom, poofy. Arnie does fold suggestions into the program and he does address certain issues. Automatix wouldn't have grown into the success it has if he didn't. His work is valuable, I've said so publicly, and I still say it despite him recently telling me that my own work sucks.

I just wish that it was possible for people to bring up suggestions without wondering whether it will be met with "Thanks, I'll work on that" or "u r attacking me, u r a troll, go away." Seeing the latter makes it hard to know where good programming ends and arrogance begins.

Regardless, seeing so many Automatix threads devolving into flame wars isn't doing the community any good at all, and it's sad to see that sort of behavior allowed despite what is written on the Forum Policies and Expectations (http://ubuntuforums.org/faq.php?faq=new_faq_item_gp#faq_new_faq_item) page. The Jail is underpopulated as far as I'm concerned.

byen
January 31st, 2006, 03:25 AM
poofy...poofy..poofy! I wish I could have put it out better, but I cant! what you have said here is a matter of fact! What Arnieboy has done is take time to make something that would not only ease a lot of issues for new and intermediate users alike.. he has also helped command-line-nervous users take the easy route..
Now..we all can see that some of us have problems with the way Automatix runs and dont want to use it.. well.. fine! We are different people with different needs and expectations. I find it hard to believe that there can be a program that can fit the needs and expectations of every single user.. but if there is a program that comes close..why not try and help the program work better.. instead of constant criticism.Now, I wont say criticism is bad, its good...but as long as it is constructive and helps in improvement. So please.. if you can help..HELP! if you cant..make something better or better yet..relax and take a walk! Lets give the guy the credit he deserves!
Ah yes.. as for people talking about his attitude and the way to responds to criticism... try making something which takes countless hours of time and research and then taking crap from every tom,**** and harry who has something to say about how it could have been or should have been...but nothing else to say in regards to offering help.

We all know the guy did some great work... lets give him the respect his work deserves! Its about time we closed this issue!!!


which one of us is willing to step up to the plate? I would
Amen! I wish you goodluck and commend you for taking the lead! I really hope we wont have to listen to all this crap all over again in 6 months... If it comes down to it... we can ask bored2k to write a small script and make them go away ;-)

bored2k
January 31st, 2006, 04:02 AM
Other. (Please explain)
I have used it (once), but I don't use it because:

My operating system does not support it (...).
The CLi (command-line interface) entertains me.

fuscia
January 31st, 2006, 04:41 AM
automatix takes a lot of the wind out of the 'not ready for the desktop' sails.

BLTicklemonster
January 31st, 2006, 04:53 AM
I like Automatix because if you want results, Automatix delivers. Yes I do use the command line, no I don't mind it (except when I get unexpected results, and there's no answer to be found to correct it), but when I do a fresh install (for any reason) I want certain things to be on my computer NOW. I don't want to have to wait forever while I
type type type type backspace backspace type type *enter
bill@ubuntu:~$ you idiot, there's no such thing as sudo apt-get instill
type type type type back space backspace etc etc. Automatix gives me what I want. I don't like to have to baby sit it; I think he could get a lot out of the way by having it address certain issues before it gets started, then at the end give you a summary of things to do "fglrxconfig now" "reboot for changes to take effect" "whatever" (if you know what I mean), but even without this, Automatix is one of those things that breathes a fresh breath into ubuntu. It makes ubuntu even more accessible to the masses.

Arnieboy... well, he's very defensive about his work. I can't blame him, but I can say that he needs a good pr man! The dude has created a definitive program that imho ought to become a standard and part and parcel of future releases of ubuntu. It's like (sorry Ab) Easyubuntu on steroids.

If someone sees a problem with it and brings it to A-b's attention in a respectful manner, I think he'd be more prone to working with them, but some of the stuff I've seen was more bashing than "hey, great proggy you got here but I noticed something that you may be interested in knowing about". Or maybe I got in halfway through some threads and missed that part. Not sure, but all I can say is ubuntu wouldn't be the same without it. When he threatened to pull it here a while back, I wasted no time in pming him begging him to reconsider, then immediately looked to see if I had it still in my /home so I could upload it to a safe place just in case!

Arnieboy, keep it up, dude. You are performing a great service to the community. Thank you very much for making my transition to linux a lot easier. ...and I know I say that for many many many people.

That there is my tupence worth.

:mrgreen:

Jedeye
January 31st, 2006, 04:59 AM
I loved Automatix, and will be switching 100% to ubunto thanks to it ;) *kicks windows out teh door*

Sp@z
January 31st, 2006, 05:08 AM
type type type type backspace backspace type type *enter
bill@ubuntu:~$ you idiot, there's no such thing as sudo apt-get instill
type type type type back space backspace etc etc.
:mrgreen:


my command line is bill@ubuntu:~# as well so when I saw that I just busted up laughing! LMAO .............I can't speel worth a crap so I dislike the command line sometimes..........

BLTicklemonster
January 31st, 2006, 05:31 AM
my command line is bill@ubuntu:~# as well so when I saw that I just busted up laughing! LMAO .............I can't speel worth a crap so I dislike the command line sometimes..........
THAT'S OFF TOPIC, FANBOY!!! 5 YARD PENALTY, REPLAY FIRST DOWN!

heh heh :mrgreen: yeah, I hate typing, too, but it's what I do all day, so by the time I get home and sit down here, my fingers are all wiggled out.

Cesium
January 31st, 2006, 05:35 AM
I would not be using Ubuntu if it weren't for Automatix. Sure, it's nice to learn how to do things manually, but I do not have much time to spend doing that.

Put simply, Automatix is great for new linux users like me. I had no problems with Automatix. Heck, it's even getting Ubuntu coverage in/at PC Mag.

mstlyevil
January 31st, 2006, 05:41 AM
I would not be using Ubuntu if it weren't for Automatix. Sure, it's nice to learn how to do things manually, but I do not have much time to spend doing that.

Put simply, Automatix is great for new linux users like me. I had no problems with Automatix. Heck, it's even getting Ubuntu coverage in/at PC Mag.

PC World and the Free Agent have had nothing but glowing reviews of Ubuntu since the beggining. I am not surprised at all by this article on Automatix.

KiwiNZ
January 31st, 2006, 08:00 AM
I voted for the first option. I believe that Automatix will make life a lot easier for new users of Ubuntu and experienced users who dont have the time to mess around. A fantastic job arnieboy.

As for what has gone on in the third party forum I believe fault has been on bothsides.
Faults , bugs and suggestions should be presented in a professional manner providing all the relevant details with out the emotions that have been evident of late.
They should, if presented thus be accepted in the same professional manner. We should all give each other the same professional courtesays.

Facts facts facts and leave the emotions at the door.

mstlyevil
January 31st, 2006, 08:01 AM
I voted for the first option. I believe that Automatix will make life a lot easier for new users of Ubuntu and experienced users who dont have the time to mess around. A fantastic job arnieboy.

As for what has gone on in the third party forum I believe fault has been on bothsides.
Faults , bugs and suggestions should be presented in a professional manner providing all the relevant details with out the emotions that have been evident of late.
They should, if presented thus be accepted in the same professional manner. We should all give each other the same professional courtesays.

Facts facts facts and leave the emotions at the door.

Very well put.

ardchoille
January 31st, 2006, 08:06 AM
I have seen reviews in PC World which praise Microsoft Windows. Is Microsoft Windows safe? Secure?

mstlyevil
January 31st, 2006, 08:16 AM
I have seen reviews in PC World which praise Microsoft Windows. Is Microsoft Windows safe? Secure?

Actually yes if you know how to secure it and practice safe computing habits. It is the same thing with Linux also.

Titus A Duxass
January 31st, 2006, 08:23 AM
I have used Automatix and am greatly pleased with the outcome.

However what I do not like is the overtly hostile/aggressive approach taken be Arnieboy when he defends his toy.

I have followed the two threads and found them quite offensive.

xmastree
January 31st, 2006, 09:17 AM
However what I do not like is the overtly hostile/aggressive approach taken be Arnieboy when he defends his toy.

<deep breath> I used it, and it broke my system. I shrugged my shoulders, and fixed it. End of story.
Then, in a this thread (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=97822) (only two pages, so don't be afraid to look), arnieboy jumped in suggesting that the OP use automatix on his system, despite the OP saying that his system was not connected to the internet.
I commented that:
a) automatix requires a net conenction
and
b) it broke my installation.

Both statements sre true.
arnieboy replied, accusing me of spreading FUD. I thought that was uncalled for, and I replied by pm, calmly. I even apologised.

He ignored it, hence my last post in that thread.

But I'm off-topic, the poll was about automatix, not the author. I voted that it caused problems, and I didn't let him know (well, not directly).

purdy hate machine
January 31st, 2006, 09:47 AM
I have never used it. I think itís a good idea as a time saving option but I tend to encourage people to manually install any applications they need. As far as Iím concerned itís all part of learning curve. Sooner or later a new Linux user is going to want to install something thatís not part of Automatix and then they are going to be completely stuck.
Call me paranoid if you like but Iím also a little wary about running automatic scripts on my computer >.<

Galoot
January 31st, 2006, 10:19 AM
Just remember that a person who has helped thousands has more social capital in this community than you or me. Is that fair or "just?" Maybe not in the eyes of a few. But it's the way it is.
As I said above, I think you're the voice of reason. But this paragraph has been bothering me all night.

How many lines of code must a person write before he is allowed to break the forum rules? How much artwork does one need to contribute? If I write thirty HOWTOs can then I tell people to **** off with impunity whenever the mood strikes me, or should I shoot for forty? What about fifty HOWTOs and a script that makes WINE work for everyone? Where's the line? How does any of that make it socially acceptable to break the rules?

Maybe the Ubuntu Code of Conduct should be changed to read "be nice to others, but it's okay to be a **** if you contribute enough."

I'll say it again. Arnie has done good work. He's even getting press of his own. But columns like Free Agent are constantly sending people to these forums, and we're happy about them seeing this ****. New people see all this mud slinging going on--from both sides, yes--and it's rotten. Social capital? How much social capital does one need before it's acceptable to make the forums look bad to new users? Ubuntu.com links here. Do you think SABDFL approves of this crap?

If a third-party program brings this much dissent to the forums then maybe it should have a forum of its own over at SourceForge instead of here.

xmastree
January 31st, 2006, 10:37 AM
As I said above, I think you're the voice of reason. But this paragraph has been bothering me all night.

8< snip >8

If a third-party program brings this much dissent to the forums then maybe it should have a forum of its own over at SourceForge instead of here.
Well said! I hope you sleep better tonight. :-k

My experience with automatix, as outlined above, wasn't great. But it was made worse by the reaction to my statements. At the time I was completely unaware of all the flamewars in the automatix forum, since I never looked there.
I tried it, didn't like it, and moved on.
I do believe that it's come a long way since then. When I tried it there wasn't the 5.10 only warning on it.

macgyver2
January 31st, 2006, 03:00 PM
...

Then, in a this thread (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=97822) (only two pages, so don't be afraid to look), arnieboy jumped in suggesting that the OP use automatix on his system, despite the OP saying that his system was not connected to the internet.
I commented that:
a) automatix requires a net conenction
and
b) it broke my installation.

Both statements sre true.
arnieboy replied, accusing me of spreading FUD. I thought that was uncalled for, and I replied by pm, calmly. I even apologised.

He ignored it, hence my last post in that thread.

...

I followed that link and what did I find? The post in question was edited by an admin less than two hours after xmastree posted the above link (and the original post in question was made two months ago)! What was the point of that, I ask. Why the sudden cleaning?

byen
January 31st, 2006, 03:14 PM
I followed that link and what did I find? The post in question was edited by an admin less than two hours after xmastree posted the above link (and the original post in question was made two months ago)! What was the point of that, I ask. Why the sudden cleaning?
same here.... I think it was edited by the mod to prevent further controversy. Hmm...

ardchoille
January 31st, 2006, 03:47 PM
As I said above, I think you're the voice of reason. But this paragraph has been bothering me all night.

How many lines of code must a person write before he is allowed to break the forum rules? How much artwork does one need to contribute? If I write thirty HOWTOs can then I tell people to **** off with impunity whenever the mood strikes me, or should I shoot for forty? What about fifty HOWTOs and a script that makes WINE work for everyone? Where's the line? How does any of that make it socially acceptable to break the rules?

Maybe the Ubuntu Code of Conduct should be changed to read "be nice to others, but it's okay to be a **** if you contribute enough."

I'll say it again. Arnie has done good work. He's even getting press of his own. But columns like Free Agent are constantly sending people to these forums, and we're happy about them seeing this ****. New people see all this mud slinging going on--from both sides, yes--and it's rotten. Social capital? How much social capital does one need before it's acceptable to make the forums look bad to new users? Ubuntu.com links here. Do you think SABDFL approves of this crap?

If a third-party program brings this much dissent to the forums then maybe it should have a forum of its own over at SourceForge instead of here.
I couldn't agree more.

DiscoKiller
January 31st, 2006, 03:49 PM
Wasn't this thread about automatix?

Automatix is a great program. It helped me install everything i needed after my 5th reload. now everything runs great. i have alot of respect to arnieboy for his hard work on an app that works for most people. sadly his sttitude toward criticism has come under discussion. one i`m not prepared to enter. keep on truckin`

DK

earobinson
January 31st, 2006, 03:51 PM
I voted "other" because I've used it in the past, but I didn't inhale.

No, that's not right. I've used it before and it worked as advertised without hosing my system. Thanks for that, Arnie. But I will not use it again until its bugs and potential problems are worked out. Until then, I will recommend against using it to anyone who asks.

Arnie's got to stop punching the teachers who don't give him an "A+" and learn to accept a "B, room for improvement." Meeting valid criticisms with name-calling rather than bug fixes is no better than Microsoft saying "Problem? We don't have a problem."


edit: I'd also like to point out that the "I've run into Automatix-related problems" choices do not total 0%, as Arnie insists they must.

Obviously, some of the voters are lying in order to attack and discredit him. /sarcasmExctly, I dont think I have ever seen anyone that had any credibility say that the Automatix project sucks. It is a great project and as said before it has helped 1000 if not way more of people convert to ubuntu. But just because something is a great project and its creator is IMVHO (v = very) one of the people that should be credited for the success of ubuntu. Just because of that we should not stop looking at the code. We should never stop and say "this program is perfect", or "this program is done", because that is never true with software.

I really do beleave that one needs to be able to take people pointing out bugs and would like to assume that most dev's do. But in this case bug reporting has turned into personal attacks. This just makes the forums unfriendly because, a new user could now be confused and as a simple question that he/she had been told that Automatix was unsafe and this could turn into a shitfest. I think that Arnie has become a very well known figure, and we all do need to show him the respect he has earned, but at the same time be able to report bugs and bring up questions about Automatix without woring about him taking it personal.

I think one of the things that could help resolve this is if we had a bug section in the automatrix forums. So that people could post a bug, and the be updated on the bugs status (confirmed, started, fixed). Also Arnie needs a lot more help and I would be willing to offer any help I can.

xmastree
January 31st, 2006, 04:27 PM
I followed that link and what did I find? The post in question was edited by an admin less than two hours after xmastree posted the above link (and the original post in question was made two months ago)! What was the point of that, I ask. Why the sudden cleaning?

Interesting...

I still have the PM I send to arnieboy, containing his coments:

Hope you have time to read this before they censor it too...


yes automatix does not do things in parts.. and so doesnt apt-get. if u feel therez no better way to contribute to ubuntu than by spreading FUD and remaining ill-informed, then I really feel a deep sense of pity on u.

And here's my PM:


Spreading FUD? I was merely stating two plain facts.
1) Automatix requires an internet connection. If you'd read the first post, you would see that the computer in question has no such connection.
2) When I ran automatix, it broke some things on my installation, leaving it in a worse state than it had been before I ran it.

If you see that as spreading FUD then you're wrong. I think that because automatix is your creation, you don't like people suggesting that it may not be as good as you'd like it to be. I might feel the same if someone complained publicly about something I had made, and was proud of.

I apologise for insulting your hard work, I'm sure it's made a lot of people's installations much easier. However, my mileage varied somewhat.

But let's not get into an argument about this, eh?
You only have to look through some of my other posts to see that 'spreading FUD' is not my only contribution. I do help out a lot wherever I can.

I feel that by censoring my post, the admins are defending the actions of one individual who, whilst having made an arguably big contribution to ubuntu, is capable of destroying the even bigger community spirit which we have built up. That's what attracts me to ubuntu, not the efforts of one person.

Edit: I apologise, it wasn't my post in that thread which was edited by the admin...
I also apologise for the earlier version of this post.

Ubuntu was already the best distro, even before automatix.

BLTicklemonster
January 31st, 2006, 05:07 PM
I think automatix should be used primarily on a fresh install, then there would be no start start whatever prima donna problems. If someone has been dicking around for a while then runs it and has problems, seems to me they were headed towards problems in the first place, automatix just did them a favor and dumped them before they got too far along.

mips
January 31st, 2006, 06:07 PM
Lol, this is childish to say the least. I read this earlier on + the link and it was uncensored.

I come back now and the contents of the linked post has been edited...

How long is this going to carry on for ??? Might just be me but I detect favouritism and double standards in this forum, sad.

You can censor/edit all you like but it does NOT change what was said/written and covering things up sure as hell just makes it worse.

earobinson
January 31st, 2006, 06:21 PM
Lol, this is childish to say the least. I read this earlier on + the link and it was uncensored.

I come back now and the contents of the linked post has been edited...

How long is this going to carry on for ??? Might just be me but I detect favouritism and double standards in this forum, sad.

You can censor/edit all you like but it does NOT change what was said/written and covering things up sure as hell just makes it worse.
What threads are you talking about?
these ones?
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=689138
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=120693

QettoE
January 31st, 2006, 06:32 PM
My experience was superb, but:

It installed on my Ubuntu with no problems. All codecs and plugins work perfectly, but didn't work as good on my Kubuntu. Can't listen to music or movies. Since I want to use Kubuntu I installed Automatix on Ubuntu and then added KDE and now I'm happy.

QettoE

mips
January 31st, 2006, 06:36 PM
What threads are you talking about?
these ones?
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=689138
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=120693

Hi,

No, this one:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=97822
Last edited by kassetra : 7 Hours Ago at 12:04 PM. Reason: we are here to help each other. really.

Malphas
January 31st, 2006, 06:49 PM
Might just be me but I detect favouritism and double standards in this forum, sad.
No, it's not just you.

aysiu
January 31st, 2006, 07:04 PM
These last few posts would be better of in the resolution center, not in the middle of the "What has been your Automatix experience?" thread.

SilentCacophony
January 31st, 2006, 07:06 PM
I voted with the "I haven't used it because I think it's unsafe."

To clarify, I feel that way about most any script I come across. In the time that I would have to take to determine the possible problems with any given script, I can generally get the job done manually, as I've become fairly proficient at such things.

That said, I have nothing against such scripts. For the average new user, they probably pose little risk of problems, and make the common tasks much easier to achieve, IMO.

Personally, I demand to control my system as fully as I possibly can, and also customize it quite a bit with 'odd' packages and my own scripts (one BIG reason I moved to linux, is that it allows and encourages that.) The potential risks of running a script that may assume a somewhat 'normal' setup on my own 'odd' one outweigh the convenience factor for me.

I would imagine that most people in my position would feel the same way, but we are not the intended consumer anyway... ;)

In any case, the linked threads were an entertaining read. ;)

gflores
January 31st, 2006, 07:14 PM
I love it!

Bandit
January 31st, 2006, 08:05 PM
I think its a great program. Defently a must for new comers.
The only reason I dont use it is I prefer to build my own packages.
I am in no way going to say its not the proper way to install programs like many users are saying, hell I use checkinstall. Who am I to talk :D
Anyway, its a good program and much respect goes to Arnieboy.. :cool:

Lord Illidan
January 31st, 2006, 08:30 PM
I like Automatix. I don't like the way arnieboy responded to the posts in the threads mentioned. However, seeing that it must be his own pet program, and that probably he is sick of hearing people moan at him or criticise it left and right, I can understand his reaction. I did that once at school. (lifted a boy 2 feet off the ground by grabbing his neck)

And no, I don't think that that justifies it, though.

Now, about automatix.

For configuring my system, I find it perfect, imho. I am probably perfectly capable of doing what it does myself, but I haven't the time to do it. arnieboy has released a program which can do what I want to do, and fast. For that, I respect him. And it has never given me any problems...despite overwriting my sources.list, but it created a backup, so in the end, who cares?

imagine
January 31st, 2006, 09:25 PM
And here's my PM:



yes automatix does not do things in parts.. and so doesnt apt-get. if u feel therez no better way to contribute to ubuntu than by spreading FUD and remaining ill-informed, then I really feel a deep sense of pity on u.
This wasn't the only posting which was deleted or modified in the threads about Automatix, but you have to understand that sometimes you even can consider yourself lucky if you don't end up in the Jail (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=93867) for forking programs...



Anyway Automatix is a nice script and I look forward that also the last bugs get fixed, although I don't use it myself since I prefer the command line.

SuperDiscoMachine V.5.7-3
January 31st, 2006, 09:30 PM
Automatix is great for new installs - I wouldn't use any automatic script on an install where I've done a lot of work. I'm in the midst of rolling over a 12-box Windows98 shop to Ubuntu, and I think I'd go insane without Automatix.

poofyhairguy
January 31st, 2006, 10:16 PM
How many lines of code must a person write before he is allowed to break the forum rules? How much artwork does one need to contribute? If I write thirty HOWTOs can then I tell people to **** off with impunity whenever the mood strikes me, or should I shoot for forty? What about fifty HOWTOs and a script that makes WINE work for everyone? Where's the line? How does any of that make it socially acceptable to break the rules?

Thats his forum. Leased space. His rules there. If Arnie steps over the line the rest of the forum he gets a warning PM like everyone other person. But in his Automatix forum he is king.

And there is a long history of it being acceptable to society for kings to break the rules.



Maybe the Ubuntu Code of Conduct should be changed to read "be nice to others, but it's okay to be a **** if you contribute enough."

He has said more than once that any person that wants to can take issue with him to the CC. If there is a violation you think is worth your time, then we have due process.


Social capital? How much social capital does one need before it's acceptable to make the forums look bad to new users?

I don't know, ask the people who forced us staff to have a place like a backyard and allow everyone to see our jail.

They have the answer. Both have far worse things inside than Arnie's forum.



Ubuntu.com links here. Do you think SABDFL approves of this crap?

He would not approve of much on the forum in the unmoderated sections and who knows if he actually approves of Automatix? He might not. Its not very pythony (the leader loves python) not is it in the spirit of Debian. So who knows. Yet he understands the community has ups and downs



If a third-party program brings this much dissent to the forums then maybe it should have a forum of its own over at SourceForge instead of here.

Or Both. That is a good idea.

poofyhairguy
January 31st, 2006, 10:21 PM
I have seen reviews in PC World which praise Microsoft Windows. Is Microsoft Windows safe? Secure?

Enough for many. Ask 90% of the desktop using world. Many of them think its safe and secure enough. Otherwise they wouldn't use it.

The point is that Automatix got a pretty large amount of space in a VERY popular mag (even Mandiva did not get and entire column for its review) directed at a community project.

Not that is was praised in that space.

poofyhairguy
January 31st, 2006, 10:32 PM
Might just be me but I detect favouritism and double standards in this forum, sad.

Ooops. You discovered that even the Ubuntu Forum Staff are ordinary, flawed humans just like anyone else.

Sorry that a neat idea for an operating system doesn't bring with it a new flawless breed of people to watch over it.

Maybe that should be reported to bugzilla.

Are some favored? Yeah. Been its been that way from the beginning. Those who do the most on the forum are favored some. In fact, thats the major qualification for becoming forum staff or being part of a forum team. Its measured by how much you help others.

Ubuntu Proper is even worse. It has favorites on the main page:

http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember


A person who wants to become a member should be engaged in a sustained level of contribution to the Ubuntu community. This can include coding, writing or documentation, the creation of art-work, music, testing, bug triage and verification, translation, advocacy, leadership of LoCo teams, etc. Contributions should be significant and visible. Anybody who is active in the Ubuntu community is a good candidate for Ubuntu membership.

And let me tell you something I know from experiance to be true. Members hold weight with Ubuntu proper. Members get a second chance to explain themselves and they are seen as part of the entire system. They are favored.

And thats how life is. Humans like to pick favorites. So some of the forum staff favor Arnie. Some don't. Sone favor other people. Some don't.

But we don't make these decisions because we like your avitar. Its all based on how much you contribute. Just like many things in life.

aysiu
January 31st, 2006, 10:42 PM
I agree with Poofyhairyguy.

The administrators and staff are human. Humans can try their best to be fair, but they do err. You want to know what I think? I think the people who complain about bias... if they were administrators would simply be biased in a different way. No forum staff are perfect. No humans are perfect.

It's the same thing I saw when I was a teacher. Students will complain about "Oh, the administration. The teachers." You know what happens? Some of those same students become teachers later... and they make the same decisions.

AirIntake
January 31st, 2006, 10:51 PM
I love Automatix, and I credit it as the main reason that I haven't formatted my drive and installed something other than Ubuntu. I don't understand about this whole 'unsafe' argument. You're supposed to run Automatix after a clean install, so it shouldn't really matter if it is 'unsafe' and messes up the Ubuntu install, as it only takes less than 30min to do another one.

mips
January 31st, 2006, 11:37 PM
Hmm... http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct


Ooops. You discovered that even the Ubuntu Forum Staff are ordinary, flawed humans just like anyone else.

Sorry that a neat idea for an operating system doesn't bring with it a new flawless breed of people to watch over it.

Maybe that should be reported to bugzilla.

Are some favored? Yeah. Been its been that way from the beginning. Those who do the most on the forum are favored some. In fact, thats the major qualification for becoming forum staff or being part of a forum team. Its measured by how much you help others.

Ubuntu Proper is even worse. It has favorites on the main page:

http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember


And let me tell you something I know from experiance to be true. Members hold weight with Ubuntu proper. Members get a second chance to explain themselves and they are seen as part of the entire system. They are favored.

And thats how life is. Humans like to pick favorites. So some of the forum staff favor Arnie. Some don't. Sone favor other people. Some don't.

But we don't make these decisions because we like your avitar. Its all based on how much you contribute. Just like many things in life.

Galoot
January 31st, 2006, 11:52 PM
Thats his forum. Leased space. His rules there. If Arnie steps over the line the rest of the forum he gets a warning PM like everyone other person. But in his Automatix forum he is king.
Oh! Okay then. See, this is the first time I've read anything about that policy. Thanks for clueing me in. That should be written down somewhere: "The 3rd Party Forums, while sharing a database and drive space with the Official Forums, are separate entities. Official Forum rules do not apply in them." There oughtta be a FAQ. I'm not being sarcastic, I truly had no idea this was the policy and that they were to be considered separate. I withdraw my "send it to Sourceforge" idea.

(Quick question: "Leased space" as in "paid for?")

Still, I think it reflects terribly on the official forums and it bothers me that the media is sending people here.

wthanna
January 31st, 2006, 11:52 PM
Love it!
Great time saver on fresh installs.
Keep up the good work!
Hopefully there will be a version for Dapper's final release.
\\:D/

Galoot
January 31st, 2006, 11:59 PM
Wait! Hang on a cotton pickin' minute! How come KiwiNZ is locking down threads in that forum if the rule is "anything goes?" And are all those Automatix threads in The Jail only from the Official forums, then?

Seriously, I'm just trying to understand. It's not making sense to me.

Edit: The CC says here (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/council) that it handles "Arbitration of a dispute under the Ubuntu Code of Conduct. This will happen if a member of the community has asked the Community Council to review the behaviour of another member in terms of the code of conduct." Does that mean member as listed here (https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/) or does it mean "community member" in the generic sense? Arnie isn't on that first list.

arnieboy
February 1st, 2006, 12:31 AM
Arnie isn't on that first list.
I am not on that list because I have not signed the Ubuntu code of conduct and I am not a member of the CC. This has directly to do with the fact that a few members of the CC openly flout the code and engage in spreading baseless FUD about Automatix on the #Ubuntu IRC channel and have also done it atleast once in a CC meeting where sabdfl and mako were both present.

As a result I have stayed away from all CC meetings and activities and will continue to do so until I get an official email of apology from this group of members who are actively involved in this aforementioned issue and a written assurance that such behavior will be discontinued with immediate effect.

EDIT: I would also like to add here that if anybody finds any bug in Automatix, he /she should discuss it with me in a suitable and courteous fashion via email or on the forums and if possible write a patch so that I consider it for inclusion. The main automatix thread has quite a number of posts which have been bug reports and I have handled as many as I could in the correct manner and released bug fix versions as quickly as possible.

poofyhairguy
February 1st, 2006, 12:53 AM
Hmm... http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct

Funny you quote that. It proves me right:


Nobody knows everything, and nobody is expected to be perfect in the Ubuntu community (except of course the SABDFL).

Also from that:


When you disagree, consult others.

If you have a problem with Arnie or the fact that he owns his part of the forum, then take these concerns to the correct part of the forum. And if that is not enough, go to the CC.

Galoot
February 1st, 2006, 12:54 AM
I am not on that list because I have not signed the Ubuntu code of conduct and I am not a member of the CC.
Nooooo! You don't say!

mips
February 1st, 2006, 01:01 AM
Could I possibly suggest people read the entire code of conduct.

You are correct, this is not the best place to discuss this, apologies in that regard.

Lets try and stick to the Automatix.

poofyhairguy
February 1st, 2006, 01:03 AM
Oh! Okay then. See, this is the first time I've read anything about that policy. Thanks for clueing me in. That should be written down somewhere: "The 3rd Party Forums, while sharing a database and drive space with the Official Forums, are separate entities. Official Forum rules do not apply in them." There oughtta be a FAQ. I'm not being sarcastic, I truly had no idea this was the policy and that they were to be considered separate. I withdraw my "send it to Sourceforge" idea.

I agree and I promise recent events will force more clarity into how we seperate these things. Staff is trying to work out the best way to make such things clear.

Trust me.


(Quick question: "Leased space" as in "paid for?")


Kinda. But not with money. With product. We get to associate the forum with successful projects as payment.



Still, I think it reflects terribly on the official forums and it bothers me that the media is sending people here.

Don't worry. The article only linked to the main Automatix thread which just shows a guy helping out more people than I can count.

Plus there is almost no reason for anyone to need to get through the forum, as the two commands needed to use Automatix were provided in the article as well.

I too wish that the Forums never held any embarrassment for the community, but that is life. The best we can do is keep an open dialoge and try to make things as good as possible in the future.

Sp@z
February 1st, 2006, 01:11 AM
THAT'S OFF TOPIC, FANBOY!!! 5 YARD PENALTY, REPLAY FIRST DOWN!

heh heh :mrgreen: yeah, I hate typing, too, but it's what I do all day, so by the time I get home and sit down here, my fingers are all wiggled out.
Called fanboy again, I should not drink and post LMAO. Sorry ppl!

AUTOMATIX ROX!

xmastree
February 1st, 2006, 01:17 AM
AUTOMATIX ROX!
__________________
WTF? Your kidding right? :rolleyes:

macgyver2
February 1st, 2006, 02:45 AM
Thats his forum. Leased space. His rules there. If Arnie steps over the line the rest of the forum he gets a warning PM like everyone other person. But in his Automatix forum he is king.

And there is a long history of it being acceptable to society for kings to break the rules.

If one is to use that convoluted line of thinking, then I'll just point out that there's also a long history of kings being overthrown, usually for acting like total jackasses.


I don't know, ask the people who forced us staff to have a place like a backyard and allow everyone to see our jail.

They have the answer. Both have far worse things inside than Arnie's forum.

The jail is clearly marked: 'This section is read only and is available for public view. Posts which are spam or violate forum policy are moved here. They may contain explicit information and you are viewing at your own discretion. If you wish to dispute a thread that has been moved to the jail you can do so in the "Forum Resolution Center".'

The 3rd-party forums have no such marking. There's no banner that states that those entering the 3rd-party section are entering little monarchies and that they should beware of floods of personal attacks. Further, it is not correct to say that posts which violate forum policy are moved to the jail because there's a whole forum of posts which violate policy that are still sitting in the 3rd-party forum...unless they don't violate policy anymore after being scrubbed to make the "king" look better...I haven't checked recently.


Ooops. You discovered that even the Ubuntu Forum Staff are ordinary, flawed humans just like anyone else.

Yes, just like anyone else...except those that have been banned from these forums in the past. The "flawed human" excuse didn't work too well for them, did it?

ardchoille
February 1st, 2006, 03:05 AM
OK, I have worked with a couple of bash "gurus" and a friend of mine who has been using Unix since 1990. What we did was take Automatix and remove all of the --force flags but, what I didn't realise is that we had to change some other things in order to make that work - but it does work and I learned some new things. I went to all this trouble because I wanted to see if it were possible to make Automatix safe for me to use on all of my systems - to prove a point so to speak.

I'd post in detail what we did, along with the finished product, but seeing as how the Automatix author has responded to others trying to make Automatix a better script, our efforts would likely only be met with name-calling, degradation and more flaming. So, since I don't deserve such things, and do not wish to cause the Automatix author any further problems, I will use what I have only on my systems and will not distribute it.

poofyhairguy
February 1st, 2006, 03:09 AM
If one is to use that convoluted line of thinking, then I'll just point out that there's also a long history of kings being overthrown, usually for acting like total jackasses.

Sure. If you think that is the case here then act upon it. Go to the CC. Ask others to change their behavior. Show the world you are right. Change the status quo.

Because if you (and those who are really concerned about this) don't then no one will.



The 3rd-party forums have no such marking. There's no banner that states that those entering the 3rd-party section are entering little monarchies and that they should beware of floods of personal attacks. Further, it is not correct to say that posts which violate forum policy are moved to the jail because there's a whole forum of posts which violate policy that are still sitting in the 3rd-party forum...unless they don't violate policy anymore after being scrubbed to make the "king" look better...I haven't checked recently.?

This is not the place to resolve this issue, but thanks for pointing out that we need clearer disclaimers on the forum.



Yes, just like anyone else...except those that have been banned from these forums in the past. The "flawed human" excuse didn't work too well for them, did it?

Often it did. The staff here has given more second and third and forth chances than you can imagine. But since many never contributed again we had no good reason to give them the last chance before they were gone.

Galoot
February 1st, 2006, 03:13 AM
I agree and I promise recent events will force more clarity into how we seperate these things. Staff is trying to work out the best way to make such things clear.

Trust me. I do trust you. But, man, it's been going on for months. Is there any chance it will be worked out to everyone's satisfaction (well, you know what I mean) before the next CC meeting, or should I add it to the February 7 agenda?

Galoot
February 1st, 2006, 03:19 AM
I'd post in detail what we did, along with the finished product, but...It's GPLed. You don't have to post it in the Automatix forum if you don't want to. If you post it to an Official forum then Arnie can't jump all over you without repercussions.

If you still decide not to post it publicly, would you mind sharing it privately (knowing of the possibility that someone else might post it, 'cause of the GPL)?


edit: Why is it I never notice my spelling errors until after they're quoted? Reprecussions. Sheesh.

earobinson
February 1st, 2006, 03:29 AM
It's GPLed. You don't have to post it in the Automatix forum if you don't want to. If you post it to an Official forum then Arnie can't jump all over you without reprecussions.

If you still decide not to post it publicly, would you mind sharing it privately (knowing of the possibility that someone else might post it, 'cause of the GPL)?
I second that, nothing worse than not publishing code, or if you want email it to some one, or make a new account and post it with that in a week.

LET THE PEOPLE SEE THE CODE

ps great job poofyhairguy I think you are doing a good job of pulling something good out of this debate.

BLTicklemonster
February 1st, 2006, 05:02 AM
Great. This has turned into an Arnie bash. Can't you people just let go? Or do I not have a say because someone will call me a fanboy, and say that gives me no voice?

This thread is called


Re: What has been your Automatix experience?

Not


Re; What has been your Arnieboy experience?

Got something useful to say, to be helpful, fine. Post it.

aysiu
February 1st, 2006, 06:06 AM
I deliberately tried to remain as neutral as possible in my original post and in the poll options. I don't want this to turn into an Automatix fanboy or Arnieboy-bashing thread. If I were still a mod, I'd excise all of the inappropriate posts in here and put them in a separate thread in the Backyard...

Well, I'll leave it up to the current mods, I guess.

arnieboy
February 1st, 2006, 07:27 AM
Automatix updated to version 5.1

New features in version 5.1 :
a) --force-yes flag removed
b) killall zenity bug fixed
c) realplayer 10 installation added

Hope this puts to ease the critics of automatix.

arnieboy
February 1st, 2006, 07:29 AM
In future, please be gracious when submitting a bug report.
I am the last person who would not want automatix to improve.

-Arnie

mstlyevil
February 1st, 2006, 07:30 AM
Thank you again Arnieboy.

poofyhairguy
February 1st, 2006, 07:58 AM
New features in version 5.1 :
a) --force-yes flag removed
b) killall zenity bug fixed
c) realplayer 10 installation added[/B]
.

It just gets better.

sabredog
February 1st, 2006, 08:43 AM
Thank God for Automatix!

When I was single and later married with no kids, I used to tinker a good deal with my PC back in the days of MS-DOS, attempting to get the slickest and fastest configuration.

Now I want to learn how to use Linux and have chosen Ubuntu Breezy to "cut my teeth" on. These days I have teenage kids and a hectic family life and simply do not have time to learn the syntax, locate and install eveything that Automatix provides me with so efficiently.

The availability of Automatix was the deciding factor in choosing Ubuntu Breezy.

Learning what I need to know will come later and I set a little task each night to further my knowledge of Linux and Ubuntu.

My 14 year old son was so impressed he decided to join Dad learning Linux. Again it was the availablility of Automatix that swung him (and me) around to actually installing rather than thinking about it.

It is a shame there is so much angst generated with this script. May some jealousy is involved perhaps?

When I had issues with Java and Firefox 1.5, Arnie helped me through the issues within minutes of posting for help. Cannot complain there at all!

Changing the kids PC's over to Ubuntu is going to be easy!

Let's all keep encouraging the development of this fantastic script that makes the installation of Ubuntu that much easier, taking a good deal of the apprehensiveness away from first time users.

earobinson
February 1st, 2006, 03:52 PM
In future, please be gracious when submitting a bug report.
I am the last person who would not want automatix to improve.

-Arnie
Thanks for the patch, I think we all want automatix to improve because with the improvment of it comes the improvment of our community IMO

Keep up the good work.

xmastree
February 1st, 2006, 04:03 PM
I'm tempted to try again, in the light of all the good things I've heard about it. But I'd need to install breezy first. Maybe I'll try it on a spare 20GB HD, just to play with it. Like I said before, I do believe it's come a long way since I tried it unsuccessfully, and I also believe it works better on a fresh install.
Mine was already far from that when I tried last time.

poofyhairguy
February 1st, 2006, 04:15 PM
I also believe it works better on a fresh install.
Mine was already far from that when I tried last time.

This is true. Its really meant to be the first thing you do after you see the Ubuntu brown desktop for the first time.

xmastree
February 1st, 2006, 04:32 PM
Well, I'll give it another go, once I find some time... IIRC, that wasn't made clear when I ran it. I already had various codecs and other goodies up and running and I figured it might be an easy way so fill in the blanks so to speak.

arnieboy
February 1st, 2006, 04:50 PM
Well, I'll give it another go, once I find some time... IIRC, that wasn't made clear when I ran it. I already had various codecs and other goodies up and running and I figured it might be an easy way so fill in the blanks so to speak.
Lots of people use automatix on top of their pre-configured installations and do not run into too many problems.
Till now, I have not got any detailed description of what exactly went wrong in your case, except as far as I remember your internet connection went down or something.

Please send me a detailed description of why it "did not work for you". Please be advised here that the success of Automatix is heavily based on the assumption that your internet connection and power supply is uninterrupted as holds for lots of other installation softwares (take for example an installation of windows which is heavily dependent on the fact that your power supply is not interrupted during the installation process).

I am aware that many countries in the world have this problem of irregular power supply and internet connection. If that is the reason why automatix "broke your system", I am sorry but there is nothing much I can do about it as of now.

xmastree
February 1st, 2006, 05:03 PM
Please send me a detailed description of why it "did not work for you".I would, but it was some time ago and I can't remember the details. I just checked my system, automatix was installed on September 28th. I was, and still am, running hoary.
I think mplayer stopped working, and my repos were wrong, but honestly I can't remember the exact details. It wasn't a net problem, or I wouldn't have blamed automatix.

Another totally unconnected thing was, there were a lot of bad things happening in my personal life at the time, so I couldn't be bothered digging into it too much. I just shrugged and did something else instead. :rolleyes:

I'll try it on a fresh breezy install.

cjm5229
February 12th, 2006, 06:14 PM
I have used it several times, at first it was because I had not learned how to install things in Ubuntu. Just because I used it did not mean I quit learning how to use CLI, I found other things that I wanted to install and learned CLI and Synaptic. Now I use it whenever I do a fresh install because it saves me a couple hours of trying to do it manually. (Typing is not one of my better skills) I have never had Automatix break my computer, I have, however done a terriffic job of screwing it up when following howto's on installing other things. That's why I sometimes have to do a fresh install.:confused:
I can also see why Arnieboy has been a a touch oversensitive lately. A lot of the threads have been removed in which the criticism became way overblown, and if you only read the two threads that were linked to here, you tend to get a rather onesided veiw of Arnieboy, which I believe is unwarranted. Those who are complaining should ask themselves what contributions they have made that make them so superior. Absolutely nothing in the world is flawless, that is why we strive to improve everything. We also don't all like the same things, otherwise we would all be driving Fords. If you have a problem with Automatix, Arnieboy will do what ever he can to help, with thousands of people using it though, maybe we could just cut him some slack so he can spend time working on it instead of defending himself in the forums constantly. Maybe if the rest of us grow up, He will have time to also?

mstlyevil
February 12th, 2006, 06:40 PM
If you look at the poll I believe aysiu's assumption is right that Automatix does not have a huge problem with breaking systems but that it is a pecieved danger by those who just do not trust anything automated.

83 people have used it with no problems whatsoever.
18 people have run into problems in one form or another. 8 of them are not sure they were Automtix related.
57 people do not use it and of them 19 people believe it is unsafe. 1 person does not know what it is and the rest just like doing things manualy.

Just by looking at the numbers I can come to the conclusion that Automatix is safe and that those who oppose it only percieve it as being unsafe or they just prefer the CLI way of doing things. Perception is everything in the eyes of most people even if that percieved idea is unfounded. The majority of people using Automatix are using it without any problems whatsoever.

Thank you Arnieboy for continuing to improve Automatix to make it better and more reliable.

aysiu
February 12th, 2006, 07:13 PM
As of this post, only 6% of users who responded to the poll have had Automatix-related issues, and that's a little less than 10% of those who have actually used it.

So, I'd say if you use Automatix, you have about a 90% chance of things working absolutely flawlessly.

imrumpf
February 13th, 2006, 12:54 AM
First off, Automatix is a lifesaver. Because of this program, i have set up over 5 people's computers in no time flat. it saves me time, and in other people's eyes (the ones who I installed Ubuntu on) it makes Ubuntu look like a God compared to Windows.

I have to add quickly that I laugh when people talk about arnie's bad temper. I have seen some of the comments that set him off, and I have seen the repercussions of such actions and decisions. I sent him a PM once with a suggestion of how to make automatix remember what was installed. Here is the beginning of his response:


Thanks for your interest in trying top improve automatix. You indeed have taken a close look at the code. However, here are some basic things that need to be taken into consideration:
Automatix is essentially a powerful bash script with a minimalistic GUI which it offers by using zenity. zenity was designed to be a poor man's GTK2 interface for doing some elementary stuff like making checklists, radiobuttons, yes/no dialogs, warnings etc. It was not designed for the kind of interface that lets say "add remove applications" has in ubuntu. In order to incorporate fancy GUI features (like remembering what all was installed, greying them out, etc) we need to give automatix a nice python interface with the power of the automatix bash script built in......
There was more (if you would like the full thing just ask), but to me it was perfectly reasonable response to me, with no anger, name-calling, or anything of that nature. I tried to be respectable to him and in turn he respected me. Code of Conduct goes both ways.

Arnie, I thank you for all the help you have given me as well as towards the other members. Keep up the good work and I can't wait till the next release of Automatix.

P.S. Arnie included ATI driver installer, which started breaking systems. He started a thread to get information and hopefully fix it. Things were not going so well so it was removed a few days later. I guess this proves that he cares about the program, and the people that use it. Keep up the great work arnie!

jimrz
February 13th, 2006, 02:40 AM
Why: I came to ubuntu back in December as an absolute n00b doing first ever linux install. I chose not to use Automatix then partly because I watched these forums for some time, while playing with the 'live' cd, before doing the full install and did see some posts indicating issues with Automatic, but PRIMARILY because I felt that I would learn more by first trying to do it myself. This, while it was time consuming, has worked out well. I now have ubuntu, with everything (even my old Lexmark printer) working, running happily along and I love it (no longer boot to XP for anything except a couple of work apps that require it) and at least some understanding of how that came to be. Now, I have recently purchased a new laptop and am going to set it up to dual boot (work stuff again) and am thinking that . due to the time issue, would like to try Automatix to get the basic stuff out of the way quickly.

Comment: As I mentioned earlier, I watched these forums for several weeks before installing ubuntu and they are one of the reasons (in fact the main reason) that I elected to go with ubuntu. It is sad to see all of these people, many of whom have helped me a great deal getting my questions / problems resolved, who I see working these forums virtually all the time engaged in this type of didcussion which is so NOT typical of the spirit of cooperation and helpfullness normally so apparent here. I certainly hope that this turns out to be an anamoly and will not degrade this wonderful place. In any event, I will continue to visit regularly and provide what little (hopefully more and more as I learn) assistance I can, while still learning and receiving help myself.

'Nuff said...everybody go to your corners...come out the bell...and kiss and make up !

Question: Am still thinking of using Automatix for the bacic stuff on the initial install on my new laptop (probably next weekend, was to have been this weekend but that time thing jumped up again). Does anyone know of anything specific to an IBM ThinkPad T42p (or otherwise) for which Automatix should not be used?

xmastree
February 13th, 2006, 02:54 AM
Now, I have recently purchased a new laptop and am going to set it up to dual boot (work stuff again) and am thinking that . due to the time issue, would like to try Automatix to get the basic stuff out of the way quickly.In that case i would say go for it. It's a fresh install, the worst that can happen is you will lose time if it doesn't go to plan.

I'm doing the same, new install on a new disk but I ran out of time. Automatix was doing its thing but I had some important work dropped in my lap so I aborted it and put my original disk back in. Once I get the time again I'll try to resume where I left off. If that doesn't work i'll just start over.

papangul
February 13th, 2006, 03:22 AM
It should be mentioned at the beginning of ubuntuguide.org.

fuscia
February 13th, 2006, 03:48 AM
whoa! sorry. please ignore.

anunn2001
February 13th, 2006, 04:31 AM
I have just installed Ubuntu 5.10 after having been off Linux for about a year. I had last used 5.04.

The first thing I did after installing 5.10 and updating it was to use Automatix. Now i have only been using the system for a few hours but the experience has been wonderful so far. DVD's play, MP3's play and Flash is working.

I have a system that has all the functionality of my Windows XP machine and then some and now I can set back and begin to really learn Linux without any missing functionality.

I really appreciate the developer of Automatix especially after having experienced the pain of adding all the missing functionality to 5.04.

The only issue I have a the moment is an error when trying to use the Debian menu item boot admin. When I try to use it get an error :

Cannot launch entry

Details: Failed to execute child process "/usr/bin/boot-admin" (Permission denied)

At first there wasn't such a directory so I created one and since I had to do it as root I don't have permissions to it. Then I changed the permissions and owner to myself and still get the error. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I also thing Ubuntu users are some of the luckiest Linux users becxause of this forum and all of the user and other resources that are available to us.

Sorry to be so long winded. TIA.

tseliot
February 13th, 2006, 07:35 AM
Thanks to Automatix I have converted a friend of mine to Linux. I told him what to do via email and via phone and now we can talk using Skype (which Automatix installed for him). Now Ubuntu just works for him.

I'm very proud of it :)

carlosqueso
February 13th, 2006, 10:56 PM
I don't use it for a couple of reasons. First, I like to do things myself, and most of the things that I would use it for are trivial. Second, I am picky about my sources.list, as I got burned using blag and foreign repos for it (although...bastardized rpm/apt distros are a bit strange in my opinion). Finally, I try not to use things that don't have a remove feature. This is not meant as an attack on Arnieboy or Automatix, as I certainly lack the coding skill to make it myself (although that's not a bad goal, hmmmm ;))

I don't reccommend it for the last reason I don't use it, and because I never would consider reccommending something I don't use and can't help with if they encounter problems.

arnieboy
February 13th, 2006, 11:17 PM
for all future reference this is a quote from the first post of the main Automatix thread so that we dont have any redundant comments:

f) Automatix will give the user the option to restore his/her original sources.list after finishing all installations.

carlosqueso
February 13th, 2006, 11:23 PM
I'm glad to see that option. I'm just finiky about sources.list changes (even temporary) since I got burned with unofficial repos when I used BLAG. Also, while I see the points you've made in other threads about remove options, and understand it's a design philosophy, but I simply try not to use anything without a remove tool (to the point of installing *anything* that I build from source with checkinstall).

However, I do think that Automatix is a great idea for those who just want their Ubuntu to work. I'm just not prepared to recommend something I haven't used since I won't be able to help if it goes wrong.

rado_london
February 14th, 2006, 01:11 AM
It is a great tools. Sometimes when I am laisy or setting up someone elses computer I use ti. It save me much time. Thank you Arnie Boy

m.musashi
February 14th, 2006, 06:33 PM
I used Automatix about a week ago on a laptop. It worked fine and fixed several usability issues I hadn't got around to trying to fix (video playback for one). Many of these issues were annoyances but not top priority (wireless being a priority). Automatix allowed me to solve those issues very quickly and I can use my time for less easy fixes.

I have used the CLI quite a bit. Automatix has not made me an idiot or kept me from learning. It saved me time on some issues. It is my understanding that that is its purpose. So, for me anyway, itís a useful tool. Thanks Arnie. It is people like you that make Linux and open source cool - i.e. people that are willing to take time to help others and usually without monetary compensation. So, thanks again.

newbie2
February 14th, 2006, 06:34 PM
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/53947/index.html
:cool:

Robgould
February 15th, 2006, 03:11 PM
I've used it and I love it. I started using it at the very begining and have watched it grow to something awesome. I have a partition that I play with trying other distros and breaking it a lot....so I do a lot of reinstalls....first place I go it automoatix when I come to Ubuntu.

neoflight
February 15th, 2006, 04:01 PM
i have had problems with FF 1.5 i installed from scratch. then i removed everything, did a fresh ubuntu install and then used automatix and its just great... some issues with FF1.5 tho...but thts not automatix issue...

the only problem i am having is that regarding the numlock on my office pc.. it just doesnt turn on automatically...dont know whats the deal....

handy
February 18th, 2006, 04:30 AM
I've used Automatix on 64bit Breezy, & currently on the same machine running 32bit. I've also set up a dual boot 64bit amd machine running xp & 32bit Breezy for someone else, naturally I used Automatix.

Automatix, saves me a lot of time, has caused me absolutely NO problems. Has eased the learning curve & saved me stress for sure.

I followed a wiki to install the Firefox 1.5 update when it was fresh. My system was trashed!!?

The other night I updated Automatix to 5.xxx whatever, it offered me the Firefox update, I did it, smooth as can be... :KS

I often recomend Automatix to users in the forum, sometimes someone posts an objection, with relation to - if users use Automatix, they won't learn how to do things properly, or know how to fix things if they break!

I don't think that is valid. IMHO, we will learn whatever we want to learn, when we want to. & under those circumstances we may even do our best learning...

It is quite possible that many Ubuntu users don't want to get their hands dirty in the guts of linux.

That should be no reason for any kind of elitism, credit where credit is due. No one is an expert in everything.

[Edit:] What percentage of Ubuntu (linux) users know how to rebuild there own automatic gearbox, or program an aftermarket engine magagement system? That's not a dis', just how it is! :-D

Thanks (again) Arnieboy for all your help.

ronmarley1
February 25th, 2006, 08:29 PM
Here's how it worked for me. I used Ubuntu for a month or so and then stumbled onto Automatix. My first reaction was, "Wow! I wish I had this from the beginning.!" My next reaction was, "Well, if I had this from the beginning, I would never have learned how to use the command line, install things manually, the structure of the file system, etc... (Ubuntu is my first desktop Linux experience)." About a week ago, I deided to reinstall a fresh Breezy. I had upgraded from Hoary, and my original file system was EXT2 (I did not know the difference from EXT3 in the beginning), so I wanted a fresh install with Breezy and EXT3. Since I already learned to install and configure packages manually, Automatix saved me a bunch of time on a desktop rebuild. I do thinks it is essential to learn the nuts and bolts (basics) first. If something saves me time after I know the basics, all the better.
Thanks Arnie!

KiwiNZ
June 11th, 2006, 02:41 AM
New versions make this thread some wht redundant

That Guy X
January 5th, 2007, 06:59 PM
Not to sound rude, but before i install this, what does this have that automatix doesent? Other than more bugs? :-k

Henry Rayker
January 5th, 2007, 07:07 PM
.

PriceChild
January 5th, 2007, 07:18 PM
*watches this thread closely*

EasyUbuntu came along to do things properly when automatix had big problems. Some say automatix still has problems. Personally I wouldn't reccomend either to anyone. You should install things yourself the correct way IMO

They're just two different alternatives that do the same thing, like opera and firefox for example.

Efwis
January 5th, 2007, 11:37 PM
Not to sound rude, but before i install this, what does this have that automatix doesent? Other than more bugs? :-k

some people believe automatix forces certain programs to work where EasyUbuntu doesn't. Also Automatix uses it's own repos, whereas, IIRC, Easy only uses the default repos included with your installation of Ubuntu.

PriceChild
January 5th, 2007, 11:43 PM
automatix forces certain programs to work where EasyUbuntu doesn't. Also Automatix uses it's own repos, whereas, IIRC, Easy only uses the default repos included with your installation of Ubuntu.:P

arnieboy
January 5th, 2007, 11:47 PM
automatix forces certain programs to work
Are you a 100% certain about that? I am just asking (since you actually might know better than me what my code does).

Efwis
January 6th, 2007, 07:20 PM
Are you a 100% certain about that? I am just asking (since you actually might know better than me what my code does).

no I'm not 100% sure about that, I was only mentioning what I had seen after you came out with automatix. I think Automatix is a great program and I use myself. Although I wish you still had FF2 set up as an option to be installed like you did with the first version when it came out.

Thank you for pointing out my error arnieboy. I meant absolutely no insult to your program, programming skills etc...
therefor I amend my original comment.

josys36
January 9th, 2007, 12:51 AM
Personally I think Automatix is great! Don't waste your time with anything else, and don't believe the bad things you hear about it. I know I sure have not had any issues.

Jason

jbayone
January 11th, 2007, 02:48 AM
Automatix is helpful when you're first starting with Linux, but it's almost a handicap because it seems like some people rely on it and Easy Ubuntu to install most things.

NeoLithium
January 11th, 2007, 02:51 AM
Personally I wouldn't reccomend either to anyone. You should install things yourself the correct way IMO

I'm actually the same as this opinion; I admit that when I first started ubuntu, that was the first thing I used, and it did work well for me; occasionally I got a few things i didn't want, like steamripper and steamtuner packaged, or whatnot. But now; when I do a fresh install I just run everything through aptitude, does it just as quick; and I prefer using the repos myself or compiling from source.

DuckMan
January 11th, 2007, 02:58 AM
beryl only works for me in the "automatix" way, and i didnt have problems, i will recomend it

loell
January 11th, 2007, 03:22 AM
this question has probably been raised already,

but i'd like to know, straight from arnieboy or someone from automatix team.

what will be the role of automatix in fiesty since there will be an official ubuntu-restricted-extras or autoinstall package?

will it stop, or will it concentrate on other things?

Quillz
January 11th, 2007, 12:14 PM
Not to sound rude, but before i install this, what does this have that automatix doesent? Other than more bugs? :-k
They are pretty much the same, although I've found that EasyUbuntu tends to offer more audio codecs than does Automatix.

Insomniac20k
January 20th, 2007, 09:38 PM
some people believe automatix forces certain programs to work where EasyUbuntu doesn't. Also Automatix uses it's own repos, whereas, IIRC, Easy only uses the default repos included with your installation of Ubuntu.

That might explain my issues with Easy Ubuntu.

I would usually install things the manual way, but I didn't really feel like spending all day on this PC, so I figured why not give Easy Ubuntu a shot? Well Flash and Java still didn't work.

So I deleted it and got automatix2, and it worked beautifully with no issues

lotacus
January 22nd, 2007, 12:22 PM
Well automatix is incompatible with AMD64 AND Ubuntu dev's/staff etc, strongly advice against using it. (should mean they should offer no support for it and delete all threads about it. heh). Easy Ubuntu is great for the n00bs, like myself, though far from complete. Ubuntu dev's should keep a close eye on the program to support it nativlely during installation or autorun post-installation.

loell
January 22nd, 2007, 01:30 PM
as if the devs recommends easy ubuntu :wink: , as far as official recommendation is concerned no third party scripts got one , so both of them are equal.

geez this is becoming automatix vs easy ubuntu for the nth time , i just don't know if this will matter in fiesty at all.

azkehmm
January 22nd, 2007, 06:45 PM
Well, I for one, couldn't convince easy ubuntu to install the prop... prob... whatever they're calle, non-free cordex, in spite of that I live in the EU, where it should be legal to install them. So, even though I like Easy Ubuntu's UI more, I'm back to automatix for a while.

Apart from that, it doesn't look to me, like there're any real difference between the two, but I haven't looked past the glossy surface :)

me1on
January 25th, 2007, 09:47 AM
I've had problems with both EasyUbuntu and Automatix. I think the best thing to do would just be to read the Ubuntu Guide (http://ubuntuguide.org/) and install everything yourself. It only takes a few minutes, you know exactly what you're doing, and you learn a thing or two. :)

Frazer
January 25th, 2007, 09:58 AM
When I first started I just followed the ubuntu guide and did everything that way. I tried automatix2 recently on a clean install and it worked perfect for me, I would learn the apt-get methods of install first so you know what is achually goin on, but I would recommend automatx2 to people.

frolle
January 25th, 2007, 10:20 AM
Learn the things yourself :)

TrendyDark
January 25th, 2007, 11:58 AM
Automatix and EasyUbuntu are both great. I know how to install a lot of things myself, but when it comes to reinstalling basic programs, I always use Automatix to make it quick and easy. I can select what I want to have installed, click start, and walk away from my computer knowing that in 10 minutes or so I'll have all kinds of useful programs ready for use.

I wouldn't suggest using Automatix for Nvidia driver installation though, that's something I always do myself (installing whatever happens to be the latest driver).

Adamant1988
February 1st, 2007, 05:59 PM
Are you a 100% certain about that? I am just asking (since you actually might know better than me what my code does).

I mean absolutely no offense, but I'm not going to lie here. YOU (arnieboy) are the exact reason I refuse to touch automatix, or recommend it to anyone. Personally, I'd rather deal with a lesser program (which easyubuntu is not) than feed your narcissism by giving you the luxury of another person downloading your code.

Now, back to saying the obvious advantages/disadvantages. There aren't any, really, they both just do the same thing different ways, although many have very heavy opinions about the way they feel these installations *should* be preformed. Personally, I'm in favor of doing it yourself, reliance on scripts is bad in my opinion, you should try to learn what you can about your operating system and your computer.

Bob Sugar
February 14th, 2007, 04:47 PM
well, I don't know much about this but I'm learning quickly that automatix is trash.

On a fresh install of Ubuntu, I added automatix (because I didn't know any better) and now I have pile of problems that noone has an answer to but to reinstall and never use automatix again.

Sunflower1970
February 14th, 2007, 05:07 PM
I tried EasyUbuntu, but I didn't like it. (sorry guys!) I use apt-get or aptitude or Synaptic for just about everything...except of all things, the nVidia drivers. For whatever reason, and I cannot figure out why, when I use Envy it doesn't work on either of my cards. On one of my installations, Envy tells me my 7600GT card isn't supported (??) But Automatix doesn't give me any troubles with it. And the GeForce card the drivers get installed with Envy but I have troubles with the resolution of my screen....So, for now, I'll stick with Automatix on that one issue of drivers

jackrobinson
February 14th, 2007, 08:59 PM
well, I don't know much about this but I'm learning quickly that automatix is trash.

On a fresh install of Ubuntu, I added automatix (because I didn't know any better) and now I have pile of problems that noone has an answer to but to reinstall and never use automatix again.

and you are probably learning the wrong thing. Learn to NOT believe newbies who give you opinions before actually helping you resolve issues. This forum is filled with opinionated newbies.

SlayerMan
February 15th, 2007, 10:40 AM
In the past, I used to recommend EasyUbuntu. But recently, EasyUbuntu failed very often, and Automatix has caught up on functionality and stability and it generally works better now than EasyUbuntu IMHO. Also, it offers more software to be installed.

h2gofast
February 19th, 2007, 04:49 PM
Here's the straight scoop.

If you're new enough to linux to ask why automatix/easy might be a better choice, you're new enough to need this advice (no offense). You need to discern the anecdotal ratio and ego factor of any post. Conviction and validity are two different things. The larger the ego the more people value their own voice, and the greater their potential for lameness. This is only potential, ego does not always equal inaccuracy.

Speaking of ego, Arnieboy has displayed some ego in the past, but his stuff has always worked for my laptops, both desktops, and my girlfriend's laptop. Anecdotal I know, but it's all I've got for you. People don't like talented folks who rock the boat. My sense is that the ubuntu folks who don't like automatix react because arnieboy didn't do things their way, and he has been blunt when addressing their objections. Imagine that, open source proponents opposed to innovation.
It smacks of condescending parochialism.

But I could be wrong.
Answering your question.
Installing it yourself is the best way because a script can't account for every possible hiccup it might run into. The issue is time. I can run automatix and it takes 5 minutes. I can do the homework on installing this stuff and do it myself. This takes time. Sometimes a lunch break, sometimes a weekend. Once I figure it out, I know what to do next time, but it still takes time. I suspect most of the guys who recommend doing it yourself, are college kids who have time to kill. I have time to get work done, I don't have time for another hobby, and automatix give me work time.
Cheers
h2.

VraiChevalier
February 25th, 2007, 06:38 PM
*watches this thread closely*

EasyUbuntu came along to do things properly when automatix had big problems. Some say automatix still has problems. Personally I wouldn't reccomend either to anyone. You should install things yourself the correct way IMO

They're just two different alternatives that do the same thing, like opera and firefox for example.

I am too old to be ashamed of showing my Gnoobness, so here goes;

What IS the correct way to install things myself? Seriously, I am trying to learn this stuff and rely on people more experienced than I for good advice.

Thank you.

PriceChild
February 25th, 2007, 08:36 PM
I am too old to be ashamed of showing my Gnoobness, so here goes;

What IS the correct way to install things myself? Seriously, I am trying to learn this stuff and rely on people more experienced than I for good advice.

Thank you.RestrictedFormatsFor all your codec goodness... for everything else just ask and I'll find it :)

Arup
February 26th, 2007, 02:17 PM
In Automatix's defense, only this program installs Flash 9 properly so that Opera can use it with sound, using apt-get or package manager left me with a non functional flash and I have Trevino's repositories installed. Good work Arnie, maybe for nvidia drivers, you can correct the problem of ubuntu insisting on installing 386 kernel on dual CPU/core machines.

PriceChild
February 26th, 2007, 03:14 PM
In Automatix's defense, only this program installs Flash 9 properly so that Opera can use it with sound, using apt-get or package manager left me with a non functional flash and I have Trevino's repositories installed. Good work Arnie, maybe for nvidia drivers, you can correct the problem of ubuntu insisting on installing 386 kernel on dual CPU/core machines.Maybe its Trevino's problem then?

Either way... I still recommend installing flash manually instead of automatix. You only have to copy a single file!

Watson
February 26th, 2007, 03:50 PM
for me automatix has worked really well on my laptop.

Brynster
February 26th, 2007, 04:18 PM
Automatix is a boon. Its the best help to a complete noob to get things running smoothly.

Seriously some people on here sneer at the work done by those guys, which is a horrendous act of snobbery.

Automatix is not the perfect solutiuon i know that as an Ubuntu user, To knock the poeple whom try to make it a little easier on beginners is just shamefull.

With Ubuntu+Automatix i would not be here i would have stayed in my Windows World. So i say be off with you and your snobbish attitudes and 3 cheers for Arnieboy and the team behind Automatix.

Hip Hip....


Hip Hip.....


Hip Hip.....

mario8723
February 26th, 2007, 04:56 PM
Hooray!!

jrusso2
February 26th, 2007, 05:07 PM
I am not a Linux newbie, having used Linux starting in 1996. But I use Automatix and I have not had any issues.

I think its fine to use scripts thats what they are for to make life easier.

I am grateful for developers who spend the time to make our life easier such as Automatix, CNR and EasyUbuntu.

When I started using Linux you had to write your own script just to dial your ISP with your modem.

I am glad those days are over.

Jeanette

king20878
February 26th, 2007, 05:47 PM
I use aptitude, apt-get, and I compile from source from time to time, but one of the first things I do when I finish a fresh install is run automatix. It saves a load of time. What's wrong with that?

Sure, the best way to learn with Linux is by doing. But there is no honor in doing things the hard way simply for the sake of doing things the hard way.

I've personally never had a technical problem with Automatix.

rbil49
February 26th, 2007, 06:23 PM
In defense of automatix, I've used it on plenty of Ubuntu boxes and it has never failed to make life easier. I've read that automatix can interfer with future upgrades. My only experience with this was upgrading my main box from Dapper to Edgy. What I did as a precaution is uninstall automatix before doing the upgrade. The upgrade worked flawlessly. I then reinstalled the latest automatix2 and automatix2 bleeder. With the later, it was painless to get the latest Nvidia drivers installed and Beryl. Whether this will be the case down the road when it comes to an upgrade from Edgy to Feisty, I have no idea. But by then, I'd probably be looking at a fresh install anyways. :-)

Cheers.

mahiyar
February 26th, 2007, 07:22 PM
I had loads and loads of problem running videos playing mp3's doing installs and uninstalls and then I came upon Automatix. Automatix has really made life a lot simpler. If Linux is about choices, Automatix is mine.

wert613
February 26th, 2007, 07:41 PM
here are my thoughts on this matter

i have installed by hand once and that is the principle of ths message

the only reason i did it was so that i would learn how to help other people do it
the thing is that automatix is one of the best things for ubuntu newbies who have just installed and just want to get up and running for the most part and learn later

i highly reccomend automatix am am grateful to the automatix team

Thumbs up arnie boy
and keep up the good work automatix team:)


EDIT: oh yeah i forgot see my signature for a link to their page which by the way is back up

desicratn
February 27th, 2007, 06:23 AM
If Linux is about choices, Automatix is mine.

That basically says it all.
Linux is about choice.Some people will want to tinker and build everything by hand. Others dont or cant. I set up a Ubuntu box for my mom.She probably cant tell you the difference between source code and a zip code, but thanks to Automatix she watches DVD's and can see flash content when she opens a web browser. Thats what makes her happy and Automatix ( or Easy Ubuntu) helps with that.
Automatix helped me transition from XP to Ubuntu.I have used Linux on and off since Redhat 7 and one of the things I always hated was flash, audio and video codecs not working, so i went back to windows and kept waiting. Once I finally tried Ubuntu and then discovered Automatix I finally started using Ubuntu as my main OS.Over time I am learning how to do things "The right way". Had I not had a jumpstart that made Ubuntu a viable alternative I would still be using XP and waiting for a day when Linux actually worked...

frodon
March 1st, 2007, 10:20 AM
Automatix is a fork of easyubuntu which existed before autmatix. Easyubuntu is sure whereas automatix makes some upgrade from dapper to edgy to fail what is always denied by its devs. Easyubuntu respect the ubuntu choices and architecture and use only safe packages. these are enough reasons to not use automatix.

If you use automatix, don't complain if your upgrade to edgy or feisty don't work ;)

Sunflower1970
March 1st, 2007, 08:40 PM
If you use automatix, don't complain if your upgrade to edgy or feisty don't work ;)

True. I'm gonna guess, when I finally do upgrade, that if I uninstall everything that I had installed with Automatix, do the upgrade, then reinstall everything I should be fine...right..? (only thing I've used Automatix for is the nVidia drivers anyway...)

PriceChild
March 1st, 2007, 11:40 PM
True. I'm gonna guess, when I finally do upgrade, that if I uninstall everything that I had installed with Automatix, do the upgrade, then reinstall everything I should be fine...right..? (only thing I've used Automatix for is the nVidia drivers anyway...)"If" you revert every little thing you won't get any automatix related problems. However I bet I wouldn't catch everything :)

That isn't saying that it will hose your system.

r4ik
March 2nd, 2007, 12:00 AM
Question.
Can a automated script be refused on this forum ?

bigken
March 2nd, 2007, 12:05 AM
I have always used automatix on various machines it has made life easy for me as I realy dont have the time do everything manually and in its defence
it has never let me down :)

PriceChild
March 2nd, 2007, 12:12 AM
Question.
Can a automated script be refused on this forum ?pardon?

r4ik
March 2nd, 2007, 12:18 AM
pardon?

In theory could Automatix,Easy Ubuntu,Envy or any script be not allowed on the Forum.

Sunflower1970
March 2nd, 2007, 12:30 AM
"If" you revert every little thing you won't get any automatix related problems. However I bet I wouldn't catch everything :)

That isn't saying that it will hose your system.

I expect at least one of my systems to be hosed when I upgrade, actually. My test system gets all updates/upgrades first, and if all goes well on it, then I move on to the other ones...If it dies a painful death, I'll figure something else out :)

cantormath
March 2nd, 2007, 12:33 AM
Because some of the mods of the forum, not all work on a project called EasyUbuntu and they dont like the competition.

23meg
March 2nd, 2007, 12:35 AM
In theory could Automatix,Easy Ubuntu,Envy or any script be not allowed on the Forum.

They exist independently of the forums, and the forums provide support for everything related to Ubuntu, without discrimination, so the answer should be no.

I'm curious why you're asking this.

r4ik
March 2nd, 2007, 12:43 AM
They exist independently of the forums, and the forums provide support for everything related to Ubuntu, without discrimination, so the answer should be no.

I'm curious why you're asking this.

Because it seems logical to me if a script seems to be harmful to systems it would get
some sort of warning,access denied,ban or whatever.

cantormath
March 2nd, 2007, 12:48 AM
again
Because some of the mods of the forum, not all, work on a project called EasyUbuntu and they dont like the competition.

r4ik
March 2nd, 2007, 12:50 AM
I heard you loud and clear but i like to keep this thread open a little while longer.
So please..

cantormath
March 2nd, 2007, 12:54 AM
Sorry,

I have just run into crap with them over this, some of the mods, and that stuff pisses me off. They are making up stuff about arnieboys product because some of them have other interests....
On the other hand, some of the mods are awesome......I could even say most..

neogeek
March 2nd, 2007, 12:54 AM
I am kinda of a newbie to Ubuntu although I have it installed on my laptop 2 years ago.

I read this article on Lifehacker about the 10 apps and tweaks for Ubuntu and installed several of the apps - for one Automatix.

I would say that this is a good program for people who are new to Ubuntu as it shows a list of programs for Ubuntu, like Realplayer, Adobe Reader etc.

Just my 2 cents worth.

cantormath
March 2nd, 2007, 12:56 AM
I am kinda of a newbie to Ubuntu although I have it installed on my laptop 2 years ago.

I read this article on Lifehacker about the 10 apps and tweaks for Ubuntu and installed several of the apps - for one Automatix.

I would say that this is a good program for people who are new to Ubuntu as it shows a list of programs for Ubuntu, like Realplayer, Adobe Reader etc.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Now there is AUTOMATIX2, but I agree, if you just want to get it working, and you dont have a linux guy to help, that is a great way.

r4ik
March 2nd, 2007, 01:02 AM
Sorry,

I have just run into crap with them over this, some of the mods, and that stuff pisses me off. They are making up stuff about arnieboys product because some of them have other interests....
On the other hand, some of the mods are awesome......I could even say most..

No need to be sorry no harm done.
It it you're freedom to post you're anger.
I would like to have my question answered.

23meg
March 2nd, 2007, 01:03 AM
Because it seems logical to me if a script seems to be harmful to systems it would get
some sort of warning,access denied,ban or whatever.

If someone thinks it's harmful, they're free to do any combination of the following:

* Recommend against it
* Help people who have been affected by the harmful behavior
* Point to the code that causes the harmful behavior and submit a patch that amends it

as is the case with any other software. Banning altogether any possible discussion of any piece of software would be discriminatory and against the CoC.

taurus
March 2nd, 2007, 01:18 AM
Sorry,

I have just run into crap with them over this, some of the mods, and that stuff pisses me off. They are making up stuff about arnieboys product because some of them have other interests....
On the other hand, some of the mods are awesome......I could even say most..

Would you mind explain what you mean by that statement?

r4ik
March 2nd, 2007, 01:21 AM
Thanks for you're answer.
I think it is clear if this is the case malicious software and /or scripts are free as a bird.

qamelian
March 2nd, 2007, 02:01 AM
I have always used automatix on various machines it has made life easy for me as I realy dont have the time do everything manually and in its defence
it has never let me down :)

I've used it myself when I've been in a hurry, but I don't use it any more because I can trace three separate upgrade failures back to bits installed through Automatix. It's a great tool to get things up to speed fast, but the user has to be willing to accept that there may be repercussions when it comes time to upgrade. Of course, any software installed from out the the official repositories leaves you open to breakage during an upgrade, so not using Automatix is still no guarantee of success.

augur80
March 2nd, 2007, 02:44 AM
I personally don't like using scripts to install things. I've used both EasyUbuntu and Automatix/Automatix2. For most configs they work just fine, but it's those rogue hardware/software configs that cause you to hate install scripts.

With step-by-step instructions found in most Wikis, UbuntuGuide, etc. at least you know everything you accomplished, and can reverse the process if anything goes wrong.

For the most part, I think people get processes backwards when considering user competency. It is actually much easier for newbies, like me.... to fix something that's broken if one knows where and what caused breakage via step-by-step. Auto-install scripts like EasyUbuntu and Automatix/Automatix2 should be used by more advanced users that are constantly updating/reinstalling to make life easier. When these scripts break, these more advanced users have a decent idea of what is causing the issue, and can track down a fix much faster. Whereas newbies would be lost and more frustrated.

The other advantage to using step-by-step is learning the OS, so one can help themselves down the line.

I constantly upgrade/reinstall for the latest and greatest, so everything has broken at some point on my machine with Ubuntu. This includes both EasyUbuntu and Automatix/Automatix2. Boy was I glad I knew how to install most of the programs/features step-by-step that EasyUbuntu and Automatix/Automatix2 installed in order to track down the problems they caused.

Well, my 2 cents are spent. Time to go work for more... :)

23meg
March 2nd, 2007, 04:13 AM
Thanks for you're answer.
I think it is clear if this is the case malicious software and /or scripts are free as a bird.

Automatix isn't malicious; that much isn't up for debate. If confused, look up the meaning of the word in a dictionary.

It has, however, had technical shortcomings in at least one point (where it used --force-yes with apt-get). That was fixed after much drama, and after that I haven't seen any technical reasoning as to why it's inadequate; I've only seen anectodal reflections, people saying "It works for me" and "It doesn't work for me". This thread is no exception either.

If the upgrade problems are a result of the use of third party repositories, then should any talk of third party repositories be banned too? It's just that Automatix has to educate the user on what they're doing, but then there's also the question of how much the typical user who uses Automatix wants to be educated.

If they're not, and they're related to the Automatix code itself, that can always be discussed and sorted out. No point in banning anything. Don't forget that you're also free as a bird to do the things I mentioned in my previous post.

frodon
March 2nd, 2007, 09:07 AM
Because some of the mods of the forum, not all work on a project called EasyUbuntu and they dont like the competition.Stop spreading lies please, further post like this will be removed and infraction issued. The discussion is polite don't try to start useless flamewars.

Thanks.

r4ik
March 2nd, 2007, 09:27 AM
23meg,

Clear post it got my both feet back on the ground again,thank you.
I should not have used the word malicious and Automatix together.
Suppose i got carried away for a moment.
Next time i will count to ten or just keep my big mouth shut until i know
what i am talking about.

jackrobinson
March 3rd, 2007, 10:41 PM
cantormath: This is a very serious allegation and you should come up with the rest of the names of staff as well.. This kind of unjust victimization of forum users by staff needs to be promptly reported.

cantormath
March 3rd, 2007, 11:53 PM
cantormath: This is a very serious allegation and you should come up with the rest of the names of staff as well.. This kind of unjust victimization of forum users by staff needs to be promptly reported.

I would rather not start another automatix fight ......which is all it end up being...I just wanted to explain the comment as was requested.

MButterman
March 7th, 2007, 03:57 AM
Being a ubuntu user for a little over a year, I thought I would offer my insight. I have tried both Easy Ubuntu and Automatix and it is a quick way to get a system up to speed but the beauty of linux is learning the process of installing packages and configuring them. That is the big pay off. learning. Freedom from anything begins with knowledge and wisdom is the application of that knowledge. Maybe we are for the quick satisfaction and less willing to learn how we get it. As for my recommendation, I have have issues with both packages so I can't really recommend either, they are on a level playing field. I have posted to Arnie Boy and never had any issues with him personally. It's sad that these thread regress into the same arguements as the Windows vs. Linux arguements. Advice: seek out a linux support group in your area and ask questions. Like reading? there are some great how to books and documentation on Ubuntu. Make this a journey of learning and not a amusement park for the quick thrill. It will take time and might even test your patience but you'll walk away so much more aware of linux and it's capabilites. Then after you do that, go out and teach someone else, Teaching someone else reinforces your own knowledge of it. So that's it grasshopper. No egos were damaged during my 15 seconds of fame and you have something tangible and useful. good luck.

MButterman

MButterman
March 7th, 2007, 04:10 AM
Hi Cantor,
Yep have to be careful, these things tend to come back to bite you if you are not careful. Personally speaking, I would've thought twice before speaking once but you are a human as I am and I have said some pretty left field stuff from time to time. Speaking of stuff, don't sweat the small stuff, it has been said and water under the bridge.

MButterman

DonoFL
March 8th, 2007, 09:43 PM
I had loads and loads of problem running videos playing mp3's doing installs and uninstalls and then I came upon Automatix. Automatix has really made life a lot simpler. If Linux is about choices, Automatix is mine.

Ok.. I am sorry for wasting space here but I had to comment on your sig. I love Tolkien Books.. nice tag! :D

Zyphrexi
March 9th, 2007, 06:15 AM
There's absolutely nothing wrong with using either.

I've been using linux for years now, and I appreciate automatic installation since it removes some of my workload. If problems crop up, I know how to deal with them. There's really no 'clean' way to install it, unless you're talking about aptitude.

(learn aptitude)

loell
March 9th, 2007, 07:46 AM
can anybody guess, what will be their role in fiesty, and with CNR coming.

:-k will these unapproved third parties , fade away?

PriceChild
March 9th, 2007, 06:07 PM
can anybody guess, what will be their role in fiesty, and with CNR coming.

:-k will these unapproved third parties , fade away?I'm guessing they'll fade away... especially after automatix got hacked and the server wiped.

loell
March 9th, 2007, 10:22 PM
I'm guessing they'll fade away... especially after automatix got hacked and the server wiped.

thats horrifying , imagine all the ubuntu stations that could be compromised.

PriceChild
March 9th, 2007, 11:42 PM
thats horrifying , imagine all the ubuntu stations that could be compromised.No, getautomatix.com got hacked... but seems like they're picking up the pieces...

MButterman
March 10th, 2007, 04:16 AM
That is a shame to hear about the Automatix server hack. I might not endorse the package but it is a real lifesaver for people and that is who is ultimately damaged here. Keep the faith Arnie, you'll get through this alright.

All My Best.
MButterman

Zyphrexi
March 14th, 2007, 07:06 AM
I was wondering what the heck happened to the server... I figured they just kept switching repo location. Projects tend to do that a lot it seems. *coug* beryl *cough*

handy
March 19th, 2007, 09:53 AM
I have used Automatix/2 since Breezy, on multiple machines & installs with never a problem. Naturally I find it makes the initial setup of a machine a somewhat quicker & easier proposition.

Having just updated from Edgy to Herd 5 Feisty, I can report that I had not a problem, due to Automatix2 or anything else! :) I did nothing in preparation re: Automatix2, & my nVidia drivers were not a problem at all.

As far as what someone else expects another to do re: the appropriate method of installation of Linux software (or anything else for that matter,) we learn best when we do it at our own speed, we also enjoy it more.

Another thing to not loose sight of, is that many computer users do not want to know anymore than they need to just be able to use their application(s) & surf the net. They have lots of other things that they would rather be doing than looking at a monitor!

In general, I don't think it reasonable that anyone (apart from an employer or formal teacher) should lay down what they think is the minimum acceptable standard of computer knowledge or usage for another. That attitude can be driven by any combination of immaturity, ego & elitism...

Enjoy your computer however you want, don't be driven by someone else's insecurities!

Thanks again to all who have been involved with Automatix/2 since its inception, you people have made life a lot easier for a lot of people, & made it harder for a minuscule minority of users, you deserve to be very happy with that outcome...

STREETURCHINE
March 19th, 2007, 10:36 AM
I have used Automatix/2 since Breezy, on multiple machines & installs with never a problem. Naturally I find it makes the initial setup of a machine a somewhat quicker & easier proposition.

Having just updated from Edgy to Herd 5 Feisty, I can report that I had not a problem, due to Automatix2 or anything else! :) I did nothing in preparation re: Automatix2, & my nVidia drivers were not a problem at all.

As far as what someone else expects another to do re: the appropriate method of installation of Linux software (or anything else for that matter,) we learn best when we do it at our own speed, we also enjoy it more.

Another thing to not loose sight of, is that many computer users do not want to know anymore than they need to just be able to use their application(s) & surf the net. They have lots of other things that they would rather be doing than looking at a monitor!

In general, I don't think it reasonable that anyone (apart from an employer or formal teacher) should lay down what they think is the minimum acceptable standard of computer knowledge or usage for another. That attitude can be driven by any combination of immaturity, ego & elitism...

Enjoy your computer however you want, don't be driven by someone else's insecurities!

Thanks again to all who have been involved with Automatix/2 since its inception, you people have made life a lot easier for a lot of people, & made it harder for a minuscule minority of users, you deserve to be very happy with that outcome...

well that about says it,i use automatix and love it,it has not done me any harm ,yes i want to learn more about my computer but i want it working first,
i can learn the rest in my own time and not get frustrated because i cant get something i need to use working,,

well done arnie and all the people involved with automatix

compiledkernel
April 1st, 2007, 05:11 AM
rather than peacemeal this, gonna bunch it all together. =)

Automatix is unsupported software by the community. These forums do not support it either. If you have difficulties with Automatix, you should refer back to their forums at www.getautomatix.com.

"automatix is a script that tries to install some software, and often
fails and breaks systems. We don't provide support for it, and we strongly
discourage its use. Problems caused by Automatix are often hard to track
and solve, and it might sometimes be easier to !install a fresh copy of
Ubuntu."

There are easier way to accomplish what you want than by using a script like A-X. A-X does a variety of unhappy things, depending on the version your using to your system. Bleeder (for those who actually risk using it) can cause Synaptic to break, and cause your system to break (based on the nature of the packages it installs). Outside of that A-X Depends on repositories of its own, aside from the official repositories. Automatix goes down, the application itself fails. A-X additionally does screw around with your sources.list , something that breaks the concept of a functioning system in some cases.

I stand to logic that is that as Ubuntu progresses that ease of use is becoming more and more apparent. The need for automatix becomes unnesseary. Fiesty in its beta form is a clear sign of this. The gstreamer-ugly package provide MP3 and other codec support. Flash is installed via the firefox automated system, and binary drivers exist on the repos that are fairly current.

Gnome-app-install and synaptic both provide a much cleaner interface. The only reason that Automatix came into existence was because it installed stuff that wasnt easy to install or had no install candidate on the repos.

Amaroq
April 9th, 2007, 02:19 PM
I'm not sure I'd recommend automatix. I've heard it can break things in ways that are very hard to fix, and can even lead to having to reinstall a clean ubuntu.

EasyUbuntu is a good one though.

However, neither one beats actually doing things yourself. That way if something messes up, it's your fault and you know how to fix it.

BLTicklemonster
April 9th, 2007, 02:47 PM
I think Automatix ought to only ever be used the very first time you get to your desktop on a new intall if you are a new user, because of the quetions arising about breakage. More savvy people can deal with such things, but a new comer really ought to find other ways like synaptic and or terminal to install stuff if they've had their machine up and running with new software installs along the way.

compiledkernel
April 10th, 2007, 08:55 PM
I think Automatix ought to only ever be used the very first time you get to your desktop on a new intall if you are a new user, because of the quetions arising about breakage. More savvy people can deal with such things, but a new comer really ought to find other ways like synaptic and or terminal to install stuff if they've had their machine up and running with new software installs along the way.

Automatix is no substitute for good clean documentation BLT. :) :)

http://wiki.ubuntu.com
http://help.ubuntu.com

BLTicklemonster
April 10th, 2007, 09:04 PM
Automatix is no substitute for good clean documentation BLT. :) :)

http://wiki.ubuntu.com
http://help.ubuntu.com

Yeah, I stopped using it, myself. But for newbs, it's a blessing. (of sorts, I guess) But thanks for pointing that out, I think a lot of people should learn the ropes and do stuff themselves once they get used to the flow.

compiledkernel
April 10th, 2007, 09:13 PM
As time progresses and releases progress, the ease of use for the user will become so complicit that A-X will likely become unnessecary. Codec, Flash, and Java installs on Feisty for instance already are done in one click (or two, just depending). I suspect that as time progresses even further to Feisty +1, A-X will just become a software installation piece, something to be considered Duplicate effort in nature.

richbarna
April 11th, 2007, 02:14 AM
I think Automatix ought to only ever be used the very first time you get to your desktop on a new intall if you are a new user, because of the quetions arising about breakage. More savvy people can deal with such things, but a new comer really ought to find other ways like synaptic and or terminal to install stuff if they've had their machine up and running with new software installs along the way.

Before breakage is mentioned, maybe a quick read is in order. It's only courteous as the Automatix devs don't use this forum and therefore can't defend their app or answer any doubts.

Check out this link for more info:- Automatix Myths (http://www.modfree.org/index.php?topic=580.0)

lamalex
April 11th, 2007, 02:34 AM
You should usually not use automatix anyway, it it notorious for breaking people's system. Instead install the things you want yourself. If you need help, ask us here and we will help you install that software, rather than have us help you fix your system Automatix borked.

halitech
April 11th, 2007, 02:47 AM
I think Automatix ought to only ever be used the very first time you get to your desktop on a new intall if you are a new user, because of the quetions arising about breakage. More savvy people can deal with such things, but a new comer really ought to find other ways like synaptic and or terminal to install stuff if they've had their machine up and running with new software installs along the way.

to me it sounds like you are contridicting yourself :D

personally, on a fresh install with a complete rookie, I would say do it the "hard way" and follow the wikis and other knowldege bases out there. then, after you have learned how things are supposed to work and you are setting up multiple machines, use automatix or easyubuntu to save yourself some time.

richbarna
April 11th, 2007, 03:12 AM
You should usually not use automatix anyway, it it notorious for breaking people's system. Instead install the things you want yourself. If you need help, ask us here and we will help you install that software, rather than have us help you fix your system Automatix borked.

That is really unfair. I have NEVER had a problem with Automatix, and I have used it from Breezy to Dapper, Edgy and now Feisty. I have also installed it on about 50-60 other systems without a single problem.

I have, however repaired hundreds of systems that were "Borked" as you say, after updates from the "official" repos.

It's very hard for me to really trust your point of view, being as you are posting on a forum that openly supports EasyUbuntu as it is a 3rd party project here.

Read for yourself and make up your own mind (http://ubuntuos.wordpress.com/2007/04/11/automatix-myths-that-need-to-be-cleared-up/)

richbarna
April 11th, 2007, 03:17 AM
That is really unfair. I have NEVER had a problem with Automatix, and I have used it from Breezy to Dapper, Edgy and now Feisty. I have also installed it on about 50-60 other systems without a single problem.

I have, however repaired hundreds of systems that were "Borked" as you say, after updates from the "official" repos.

It's very hard for me to really trust your point of view, being as you are posting on a forum that openly supports EasyUbuntu as it is a 3rd party project here.

Read for yourself and make up your own mind (http://ubuntuos.wordpress.com/2007/04/11/automatix-myths-that-need-to-be-cleared-up/)

EDIT: If you really want to learn how to install things yourself and get to know your system, I would highly recommend Aysiu's (who posted earlier) website. As a guide to learning and managing ubuntu it is second to none in my opinion.
www.psychocats.net (http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/index.php).

halitech
April 11th, 2007, 03:32 AM
you know, I really wish people would get off Arnie's back about his software. Okay, some people have had trouble with it or because of it or maybe in spite of it but these self rightous people who keep saying it was A-X's fault, without knowing all the facts are starting to get to me. Personally, I have it used it and I have not had any trouble with the systems I've used it on that I didn't later cause for myself (chmoding incorrectly, deleting files I had no idea what they were, etc). saying that A-X will bork your system is like saying that because you drive a chev, you will have an accident but if you build your own car, you'll be fine. If it hadn't been for A-X when I started, I can honestly say that I would not have stayed with Ubuntu because as a windows power user, I couldn't figure out how to do things in Linux. after having a working system, thanks to A-X, then I was able to settle down and figure out why things worked the way they did, not why they weren't working for me when it worked for everyone else.

Sorry for the rant but just cause it doesn't work for you, or you think everyone should get down into the guts of things, doesn't make you right and not everyone cares how it works, they just want it to work.

richbarna
April 11th, 2007, 03:46 AM
you know, I really wish people would get off Arnie's back about his software. Okay, some people have had trouble with it or because of it or maybe in spite of it but these self rightous people who keep saying it was A-X's fault, without knowing all the facts are starting to get to me. Personally, I have it used it and I have not had any trouble with the systems I've used it on that I didn't later cause for myself (chmoding incorrectly, deleting files I had no idea what they were, etc). saying that A-X will bork your system is like saying that because you drive a chev, you will have an accident but if you build your own car, you'll be fine. If it hadn't been for A-X when I started, I can honestly say that I would not have stayed with Ubuntu because as a windows power user, I couldn't figure out how to do things in Linux. after having a working system, thanks to A-X, then I was able to settle down and figure out why things worked the way they did, not why they weren't working for me when it worked for everyone else.

Sorry for the rant but just cause it doesn't work for you, or you think everyone should get down into the guts of things, doesn't make you right and not everyone cares how it works, they just want it to work.

Round of applause for halitech, fair play to you mate. I'm a command line man myself and I mainly use Debian, but the fact is, it's just so "Un-Linux" to keep bashing peoples efforts. Everybody was singing Arnie's praises when Automatix was a 3rd party project here.
People also forget the amount of support Arnie gave on these forums for a long time, it's just unfair is all.

halitech
April 11th, 2007, 03:52 AM
I started using it about the time he left and never did understand why he left although from what I've seen, maybe it was jealousy from people who couldn't do the coding he was able to do, I don't know. but the way I see it, anything that someone can do to make it easier to get people to switch over from windows, be it to Ubuntu, FC, Mandriva, BSD, whatever, it should eb applauded, not ripped to shreds because of a personality conflict. from my point of view, it's because of the petty infighting that we all do that will prevent *nix from growing into the widespread user base it deserves so I think it's time a few (no, ALOT) of people grow up and stop downing something cause they don't like a person and do whatever needs to be done to get people into using (perferably) Ubuntu.

aktiwers
April 11th, 2007, 03:56 AM
I dont get it either? I love automatix, its a wonderful app. Never harmed my computer, and I too used it since it was a 3rd party project here.

Can someone explain what problems this app has made? All I hear is it brake systems, but not how?

I myself has used it on 5 computers, without any problems. Only problem that I have had (but I dont know if this is even Automatix fault) is onces I did a dist-upgrade my system broke its x-server. But I guess that was because of my old ATI card, and the lame driver support.

compiledkernel
April 11th, 2007, 04:35 AM
Honestly for group machines I would consider the use of apt-cacher, proxy, or mirror....

http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/net/apt-cacher
http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/admin/apt-proxy
http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/net/apt-mirror

with some interesting package direction and assessment. But thats a relatively easy and automated way to deal with local package management where the need to constantly update machines via Synaptic, Apt-get, or Automatix becomes a little tedious to the hands and unnessecary.

panickedthumb
April 11th, 2007, 04:35 AM
That is really unfair. I have NEVER had a problem with Automatix, and I have used it from Breezy to Dapper, Edgy and now Feisty. I have also installed it on about 50-60 other systems without a single problem.

I have, however repaired hundreds of systems that were "Borked" as you say, after updates from the "official" repos.

It's very hard for me to really trust your point of view, being as you are posting on a forum that openly supports EasyUbuntu as it is a 3rd party project here.

Read for yourself and make up your own mind (http://ubuntuos.wordpress.com/2007/04/11/automatix-myths-that-need-to-be-cleared-up/)
In all fairness, the forums don't openly support EasyUbuntu. Some staff may, but it's not forum policy or anything (unless I missed that memo). If I'm wrong someone else can correct me, but a 3rd party forum does not necessarily equal open support. Automatix used to have a 3rd party forum here as well, and the forum wasn't openly supporting it either. It's just a way to give 3rd party projects a home if they don't have one already.

BLTicklemonster
April 11th, 2007, 05:25 AM
Before breakage is mentioned, maybe a quick read is in order. It's only courteous as the Automatix devs don't use this forum and therefore can't defend their app or answer any doubts.

Check out this link for more info:- Automatix Myths (http://www.modfree.org/index.php?topic=580.0)

I like AX, and don't follow the bash crowd at all, but I do know that if you have set stuff up using offbeat repositories, and then use automatix, then some breakage could occur. When I posted my original statement, I felt bad for even saying that, because I don't want to come across as against it, or Arnieboy. AX is a great tool! For a new migrator from windows, it's a god send. Most people who try linux aren't going to want to try to learn anything right off the bat. Yes, it would be better for them to, but they are in the habit of point and click and click and click and click, so a program that allows them ease of use is going to be the obvious choice for the newbs.

And I'm not contradicting myself, I just didn't make myself perfectly clear :) It makes sense after a couple of beers and a few re readings...

FuturePilot
April 11th, 2007, 05:45 AM
Automatix is one of the first things I install on a fresh install of Ubuntu. But I have learned how to do it all by hand, but it's just faster if I use Automatix. Never had a problem with it. I mostly use it to get all the Firefox plugins installed and a few extra little goodies.

BLTicklemonster
April 11th, 2007, 06:01 AM
Wow, I ended up over here with this.

Let me reiterate:

I think Automatix ought to only ever be used the very first time you get to your desktop on a new intall if you are a new user, because of the quetions arising about breakage.

I never had any problems, but the "questions" arising about breakage are a consideration to be taken into consideration.

I haven't used automatix for a while, because I'm using feisty, and I never saw where it supported feisty, so I didn't want to take any chances.

But as I said before, for a first time user, Automatix is a Godsend, for sure.

Tux Aubrey
April 11th, 2007, 06:43 AM
I've never had any problems I could attribute to problems with AX.

Will the new features in Feisty for easy installation of drivers and codecs make AX redundant? I know it does a lot more but mostly those things can be done as easily through Synaptic.

I think one reason people like me have used AX is that the names of some things in Synaptic - particularly some of the codecs - are so obscure that its difficult to find them - even with search.

mac.ryan
April 11th, 2007, 06:56 AM
As a newcomer on these forums (and a returning customer on ubuntu after 1.5 years break), I have to say that the biggest disappointment into the AX/Uforum issue is the fact that it really spreads negative vibes all around. Something well below the ubuntuforums standards.

Weeks ago, while I was trying to help out a newcomer, he mentioned the word "automatix" in his post, and he got a totally OT reply by some forum staff on the fact "the community doesn't support automatix". I also find the photocopy of the same post in other threads, a kind of systematic FUDding of AX.

I was so negatively impressed that I took quality time to google for cached threads and to read old threads in the conflict resolution centre.

My impression out of that time:
This conflict has escalated that much, that what it matter now is not anymore "AX" but only "AX reputation". (So energies go into attacking or defending, and not on discussing how AX achieves what it does, and at what costs...)
AX is widespread, and amongst the one who tried/use it, a vast majority likes it. (For each post blaming AX there are loads recommending it, in the support areas).
There is people providing help on AX on these forums. Any claim of "the community" not supporting it is just... a claim.
This "civil war" isn't bringing the ubuntu community any further. It just takes energy and time out of the resources that we all put in voluntarily. More important it really gives you an undeserved negative impression of this community (whatever meaning you want to attach to this word).
There is currently no neutral platform to discuss the issue: users are on both forums (ubuntu and AX) but ubuntuforum staff and AX devs aren't. So, it's simply pointless to try to "establish" the truth if not all the points are heard with the same consideration).
There is a sufferance from everybody involved: users are frustrated by this non-ubuntu spirit going around like a zombie, arnieboy felt so bad that left and asked the closure of the forum on AX, ubuntuforum staff (some of) is still crossed to date for reasons that are - at least for me - not clear yet).
The absence of an AX forum here has the only effect to penalize users.If the UFstaff and the AXdevs can't really get back to behave in an ubuntu way (and this is not a criticism... everybody can get trapped in a conflict, at some point in life!), I would find very beneficial if:
Forum Staff would refrain to make any comment on AX on the forums (they opinion is however perceived like biased by those who know about the conflict).
The FS and the AX devs could agree on a "FAQ"/sticky about AX and ubuntu, to be posted on both sites (you can divorce, but you really don't have to hate your former spouse, do you?),In the most ideal of the worlds, I would like also to see the return of the AX forum here (yes... I know it has been closed on request of arnieboy... yet... in the most ideal of the worlds...).

karellen
April 11th, 2007, 06:58 AM
never used it...I find synaptic more than enough for what I need

frodon
April 11th, 2007, 08:50 AM
Automatix, easyubuntu and all other automated scripts are useless piece of software, the paradox is even bigger when you have to add the automatix repo and open synaptic which BTW allows you to install all you need already.
There's many improvements in feisty like a central packages for codecs easily reachable in the "add/remove apps" window and it is now longer and harder to install those automated scripts than clicking 3 times in the add/remove apps tool.

All about what you need which isn't included by default is more than well documented here, trust me you will spend more time using unsafe external software than just reading this page :
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats

Automated scripts were useful at the time when nothing was there to ease the common restricted apps install but now this automated script concept is really obsolete and just prevent users from getting some basis and gain autonomy.

KiwiNZ
April 11th, 2007, 09:18 AM
Automatix, easyubuntu and all other automated scripts are useless piece of software, the paradox is even bigger when you have to add the automatix repo and open synaptic which BTW allows you to install all you need already.
There's many improvements in feisty like a central packages for codecs easily reachable in the "add/remove apps" window and it is now longer and harder to install those automated scripts than clicking 3 times in the add/remove apps tool.

All about what you need which isn't included by default is more than well documented here, trust me you will spend more time using unsafe external software than just reading this page :
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats

Automated scripts were useful at the time when nothing was there to ease the common restricted apps install but now this automated script concept is really obsolete and just prevent users from getting some basis and gain autonomy.

I have to disagree with you frodon. Automatix and easyubuntu are not useless. They provide a useful tool to those who need it.
I have provided Ubuntu to many novice users and have also advised them to use Automatix.
In my experience Automatix has helped many novice linux user successfully migrate to Linux and in particular Ubuntu.
Not all users want or desire to know all the finer details on how the OS works. They simply want it to work and to be able to install apps etc with ease.Automatix does that for them.

Spr0k3t
April 11th, 2007, 09:29 AM
I've used it, run into Automatix-related problems, and let Arnieboy know. Not to mention I haven't used it since.

I found installing components to be easier through other methods.

frodon
April 11th, 2007, 09:35 AM
Not all users want or desire to know all the finer details on how the OS works. They simply want it to work and to be able to install apps etc with ease.Automatix does that for them.Feisty improvements allows that and that's the point i try to devellop, i think you miss my point saying that.

All is explained there :
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats

AlanRogers
April 11th, 2007, 09:45 AM
As a relative new-comer to Linux, and having pretty much chosen Ubuntu as my distro of preference, I have to say that Automatix did tons to:
Deliver to me a system that more or less delivered everything that I had grown accustomed to under Windows
Make clear that the installation of certain software packages were outside of the basic ethos of Ubuntu and why
Show me how the repository/package system works, by simply opening sources.list before and after, and viewing Synaptic before and after.As a result, I'm now comfortable using Update Manager, Synaptic, or even Apt-Get at the command line. Automatix, being outside of but using these, has made it easier to see how they work.

I am blissfully ignorant of the alleged issues that have gone on in other threads and frankly don't care; the product plain works and, when it doesn't, it gets fixed. At the end of the day, Ubuntu Linux and its forks, packages and projects are fantastic value for money.

That its creator may have taken some criticism a little personally; well, genius is a short step from madness!:biggrin:

cantormath
April 11th, 2007, 09:54 AM
I prefer things manual like, but I have used it on many occasions and it works WAYYYYYYY better then EASY UBUNTU. I would even go as far to say that Easy Ubuntu is junk. It has done something wrong or unwanted to every system I have tried it on. If you dont do it manually, do it with Automatix2!

ComplexNumber
April 11th, 2007, 10:23 AM
i voted for:
I haven't used it because I prefer to install things manually

FoolsGold
April 11th, 2007, 11:23 AM
I've used it, run into Automatix-related problems, but I haven't let Arnieboy know.

It was what brought me to Ubuntu in the first place. Now that I know what I'm doing, I prefer to do things the apt-get/Synaptic way. That and the fact I run Feisty, which doesn't support Automatix and as such I needed to learn how to do things myself anyway.

It has a few problems; a failed/aborted installation won't be detected by Automatix and it will have considered it installed, so you'll have to first select it from the uninstall list before you can retry again. When I tried installing XChat it also tried to install a taskbar thingy to go along with it, and despite the taskbar extra normally being optional if you do it manually, Automatix wanted to install it without my input. Problem was, it conflicted with another piece of software, so apt-get wouldn't continue. If Automatix had just bothered to select xchat on its own, it would have worked.

cantormath
April 11th, 2007, 11:29 AM
. That and the fact I run Feisty, which doesn't support Automatix and as such I needed to learn how to do things myself anyway.
.

http://www.getautomatix.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=921

Automatix2 for Ubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn i386 has been released.
Installation instructions can be found here:
http://www.getautomatix.com/wiki/index.php...le=Installation

STREETURCHINE
April 11th, 2007, 11:47 AM
In light of these two threads...
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=689138
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=120693

... I'm just curious what people's actual experiences with Automatix have been.



well since i dont have permission to access them two posts i cant comment on them but i find automatix a great tool for us noobs or people who just want our computers to work without to much fuss,
i definatly recomend it,it has never let me down,never brocken my system,,