What are burnt beans?

[earobinson]

is this what happens when a user gets banned?

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=675582&postcount=23 (example)

[ubuntu-geek]

Yes

[earobinson]

temp ban or perm ban?

maybe we could do other things other than ban users like subtract posts, or ban them froum sub forums, only using a ban as a last resort.

however I am in support of some mod action, just feel that baning is extream, just putting it out there.

[az]

just putting it out there.


Me too:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=110465

[ubuntu-geek]

Thats fine you are welcome to your opinion the situation was extreme and the small handfull of people that have been banned from this forum in the past 1.5 years have all been extreme cases.

We don't need to debate the politics here, just incase anyone felt the need to.

[Puptentacle]

I'm a mod/admin on other boards. When you have a huge number of members and a huge number of posts, banning is the easiest way to deal with a problem member. Redacting posts, etc. is time consuming and isn't as direct a way to deal with the situation.

Give a clear cut set of rules up front. If someone cant abide by them, ban 'em, you're done.

[az]

I'm a mod/admin on other boards. When you have a huge number of members and a huge number of posts, banning is the easiest way to deal with a problem member. Redacting posts, etc. is time consuming and isn't as direct a way to deal with the situation.



It is never that clear-cut. Basil Fawlty said that he could run his hotel *properly* if it weren't for all the guests!

Also, the problem is that the code of conduct says that you should be respectful.

The users are what make the forums great and they should be respected. Sometimes that is a little bit more work than just banning people who annoy you. In this case, that is why "the jail" is readable, there is a "resolution center" and moderators deleting posts is frowned-upon.

Anyway, I made my view clear in the above mentioned link.




...Here I go "trolling" again!

[Lord Illidan]

Just my 2c.. I also attended another forum bigger than this one (maybe it has decreased, nowadays)

I believe that just subtracting post count is not going to work. Someone who spams for fun, or to offend/hurt people will NOT be affected. Banning is the answer, but, the person must have room in which to make his apologies, or excuses. Eg: My sister was using my account on the forum I mentioned above and being the typical silly idiot she is, she began typing nonsense, getting me kicked out in seconds. Luckily, I was able to get in again..

[earobinson]

Just my 2c.. I also attended another forum bigger than this one (maybe it has decreased, nowadays)

I believe that just subtracting post count is not going to work. Someone who spams for fun, or to offend/hurt people will NOT be affected. Banning is the answer, but, the person must have room in which to make his apologies, or excuses. Eg: My sister was using my account on the forum I mentioned above and being the typical silly idiot she is, she began typing nonsense, getting me kicked out in seconds. Luckily, I was able to get in again..
Well in that case you should ban,

I just think it would be intresting to have a more gradual set of tools that mods could use to control the thread.

Thats fine you are welcome to your opinion the situation was extreme and the small handfull of people that have been banned from this forum in the past 1.5 years have all been extreme cases.

We don't need to debate the politics here, just incase anyone felt the need to. I have always said I support the mods, I also feel that there is nothing wrong with talking about forum rules, just like there is nothing wrong talking about laws, as long as we can do it without causing a flamewar.

I feel that the original post (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=120582) by aysiu (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=21941) was a really good one. I only wish the topic could have stayed civil. I think that more mod tools in order to keep people respectfull is better. Somtimes a gentle nudge is better than an all out ban. Maybe with more tools it would be easyer to keep some users under control without baning.

Or maybe to list the amout of complaints a user has had aginst them so that we can all see that a user is beyond saving. Just Ideas thats all it is.

I will say that this thread is in now way to insult any mod action, just to talk about the rules and ways they can be enforced.

[ubuntu-geek]

Well in that case you should ban,

I just think it would be intresting to have a more gradual set of tools that mods could use to control the thread.

I have always said I support the mods, I also feel that there is nothing wrong with talking about forum rules, just like there is nothing wrong talking about laws, as long as we can do it without causing a flamewar.

I feel that the original post (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=120582) by aysiu (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=21941) was a really good one. I only wish the topic could have stayed civil. I think that more mod tools in order to keep people respectfull is better. Somtimes a gentle nudge is better than an all out ban. Maybe with more tools it would be easyer to keep some users under control without baning.

Or maybe to list the amout of complaints a user has had aginst them so that we can all see that a user is beyond saving. Just Ideas thats all it is.

I will say that this thread is in now way to insult any mod action, just to talk about the rules and ways they can be enforced.
True the OP was a good post, I think KiwiNZ's choice to lock the thread was the correct one he follow forum policy and so did aysiu by using the RC.

Regarding the ban of users, users are givin 3-4 PM based warnings asking them to please tone down or attemping to correct them. If the user does not wish to follow forum policy after this a temporary ban is issued, following the temporary ban if the user still does not wish to follow policy the users is perm banned.

There is a set of policy that are followed a users is just not banned over without warning, however there may be a rare case. For example if a user posts a very verbal and offensive post towards staff/forum users we will not hesitate to remove the account.

[matthew]

I just think it would be intresting to have a more gradual set of tools that mods could use to control the thread.I think the gradual method in use today is
1 - PM the offending poster and make a private request that the behavior in question be modified.
2 - post publically in the thread something like "Hey, we have asked you politely to refrain from this sort of behavior and follow the code of conduct. Please do so."
3 - jail specific posts
4 - lock a thread/move it to jail
5 - ban the user if the user continues the offending action in other threads

(note: stuff that needs to be in the backyard can and should bypass this whole process and be moved right away with a quick note form the admin/mod)

Actually, this seems to be the basic script I already see being followed. I can't recall hearing of anyone being banned immediately on their first offense, or even their second, third or fourth.
Or maybe to list the amout of complaints a user has had aginst them so that we can all see that a user is beyond saving. Just Ideas thats all it is.Not a bad idea, but it would be a lot of work...and perhaps impractical due to the time constraints of the staff.

I will say that this thread is in now way to insult any mod action, just to talk about the rules and ways they can be enforced.I agree. I genuinely think the staff here do a great job.

EDIT: U-G posted while I was composing...gotta learn to type faster. :) Oh, and I stole his "troll" link and added it to my sig

[Puptentacle]

It is never that clear-cut. Basil Fawlty said that he could run his hotel *properly* if it weren't for all the guests!

Also, the problem is that the code of conduct says that you should be respectful.

The users are what make the forums great and they should be respected. Sometimes that is a little bit more work than just banning people who annoy you. In this case, that is why "the jail" is readable, there is a "resolution center" and moderators deleting posts is frowned-upon.

Anyway, I made my view clear in the above mentioned link.


There is certainly a difference between "banning people who annoy you" and banning someone who is obviously trolling or breaking the main "be respectful" rule.

Someone who answers any comment that doesn't fit into their narrow worldview with "You are insulting me!" and screaming "Personal Attack" most likely isn't going to listen to anything anyone tells them in any format, PM or otherwise. Warnings are a great thing, but some cases call for a ban.

No attack intended on anyone by this post. Just an opinion...

[Sp@z]

I admin other forums and even game servers. I am also known as BAN HAPPY......But I will only ban when the rules that are clearly posted are CLEARLY broken.......I don't warn (why I am called ban happy).I don't have time to argue with someone about this that and the other........I am a damn good admin hence why I admin so many servers and forums. My game servers are ALWAYS full because it lacks the usual BS that ppl do in games, whine, swear , cheat ETC..........I was wondering how long it would take to ban BSDFreak........he seemed very hostile...........

[kassetra]

moderators deleting posts is frowned-upon.


No, deleting posts is not frowned on. It's not a first resort, but we do not prohibit or prevent staff from removing posts if necessary - in most cases, it's unnecessary, that is all.

There are many tools available for staff to use, and I'm not one to remove any of those tools from their bag.

[az]

No, deleting posts is not frowned on. It's not a first resort, but we do not prohibit or prevent staff from removing posts if necessary - in most cases, it's unnecessary, that is all.

There are many tools available for staff to use, and I'm not one to remove any of those tools from their bag.

You must have missed the memo:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=555933&postcount=176
...Secondly, I will be revamping the staff guidelines about deleting posts and implementing a more secure and trackable method of editing/moving posts. From this day forward out right deleting posts will be frowned upon.


Now, I am not saying that some tools should be removed from use. I think in the example thread cited, splitting the thread to preserve the ongoing discussion would have been more useful than locking it.

There is certainly a difference between "banning people who annoy you" and banning someone who is obviously trolling or breaking the main "be respectful" rule.

The only way you can really make it known that it is one and not the other is by doing things in the open. I think this whole incident was made worse because people did not know what was going on. Hence the title of this thread.

People tend to look after each other. This is especially true in a "humanity towards others" kind of forum. That's why the question was asked, I guess, and not to stir up a flamewar.



Someone who answers any comment that doesn't fit into their narrow worldview with "You are insulting me!" and screaming "Personal Attack" most likely isn't going to listen to anything anyone tells them in any format, PM or otherwise. Warnings are a great thing, but some cases call for a ban.

No attack intended on anyone by this post. Just an opinion...

I agree. Again, sometimes it is not that clear cut. Sometimes useful contributers to the forum are lost. I just suggest a small effort to try to reconcile and move on instead of ban and **** off. Ultimately, it is the user in question's decision to make an effort to repair the dammage or misunderstanding if the oportunity is given.

The forums are busy but I think there is a proportional number of willing bodies to help out with such tasks. That is a management stategy, but hey, if you don't talk about something maybe no one else would have thought of that.

[earobinson]

Great post Azz ^^^^^


I agree. Again, sometimes it is not that clear cut. Sometimes useful contributers to the forum are lost. I just suggest a small effort to try to reconcile and move on instead of ban and **** off. Ultimately, it is the user in question's decision to make an effort to repair the dammage or misunderstanding if the oportunity is given.

The forums are busy but I think there is a proportional number of willing bodies to help out with such tasks. That is a management stategy, but hey, if you don't talk about something maybe no one else would have thought of that.
Correct

I agree. Again, sometimes it is not that clear cut. Sometimes useful contributers to the forum are lost. I just suggest a small effort to try to reconcile and move on instead of ban and **** off. Ultimately, it is the user in question's decision to make an effort to repair the dammage or misunderstanding if the oportunity is given.

The forums are busy but I think there is a proportional number of willing bodies to help out with such tasks. That is a management stategy, but hey, if you don't talk about something maybe no one else would have thought of that.
Ya I just dont see why we should loose good threads becasuse of bad people :(

True the OP was a good post, I think KiwiNZ's choice to lock the thread was the correct one he follow forum policy and so did aysiu by using the RC.

Regarding the ban of users, users are givin 3-4 PM based warnings asking them to please tone down or attemping to correct them. If the user does not wish to follow forum policy after this a temporary ban is issued, following the temporary ban if the user still does not wish to follow policy the users is perm banned.

There is a set of policy that are followed a users is just not banned over without warning, however there may be a rare case. For example if a user posts a very verbal and offensive post towards staff/forum users we will not hesitate to remove the account.
Just want to slam this out quick, I have never ment to say that mod action wasent needed (and I dont think I did) I just wish we could do somehting like ban a user from a thread (or something like that) so that good threads dident get ruined because that was a really intresting thread and it just got messed up. No disagrement that moderator action was needed, just maybe there are different ways that could have helped keeping the thread open and ontopic.

keep up the great work (cant say this to much)

Disclamer (going to keep it in every post for people that dont read the whole thread) Im not saying the mods had done or do anything wrong Im just looking at other ideas. If you want to flame or say that userS is stupid dont do it in this thread.

EDIT: edit done
EDIT: burnt beans is a cool name for a ban? is a temp ban over cooked beans?

[kassetra]

You must have missed the memo:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=555933&postcount=176

Nope, I didn't.

As a first resort, it's not something we promote, as we have other tools to use instead. But the tool itself, in context, is not frowned upon.

I think you missed the point.

[earobinson]

Nope, I didn't.

As a first resort, it's not something we promote, as we have other tools to use instead. But the tool itself, in context, is not frowned upon.

I think you missed the point.
I think you are both saying the same thing, azz is just quoting the post you are explaining how it works aka It will happen if it must but you will do your best not to.

(could be wrong) <- Yup Im wrong

Neways I havent seen a deleated post in a while (dont know how to see one) If your post is incorectly deleated please post in the resoultion center (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=123) do not flame (that way we have it in history for everyone to see)

EDIT: Maybe I should add the resoultion center (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=123) to my sig seem to be pointing it out to a lot of people latley.
EDIT: as a side note a lot of people on the forums seem to mod other forums, someone should start a poll......

[xequence]

Wow. BSDfreak is banned. Ill have to look at the jail to find out why ;O

Regarding the ban of users, users are givin 3-4 PM based warnings asking them to please tone down or attemping to correct them. If the user does not wish to follow forum policy after this a temporary ban is issued, following the temporary ban if the user still does not wish to follow policy the users is perm banned.

That system is perfectly fine in my opinion. If someoen doesent realise they are doing something wrong they get the benefit of the doubt and get a couple warnings.

No, deleting posts is not frowned on. It's not a first resort, but we do not prohibit or prevent staff from removing posts if necessary - in most cases, it's unnecessary, that is all.

There are many tools available for staff to use, and I'm not one to remove any of those tools from their bag.

Removing posts with anything directly breaking the rules is ok in my opinion, but not if they just disagree with you. (No idea what happened and when, but, just my opinion =P)

[Puptentacle]

The only way you can really make it known that it is one and not the other is by doing things in the open. I think this whole incident was made worse because people did not know what was going on. Hence the title of this thread.


I totally agree...

I've had disagreements with fellow mods and admins in other forums about this very thing. I think any public problems should be dealt with in a "professional" manner, but should be done publicly for just the reason you state.

I even had another admin (on another board that I'm no longer associated with for various reasons, not this incident) delete MY posts because he didn't agree with my method.

He and I subsequently had a discussion about it, offboard, and came to enough agreement that we now run a board together.

[kassetra]

I think this whole incident was made worse because people did not know what was going on. Hence the title of this thread.

I'm really not seeing an incident here. There is a question about an icon we use on the forums, and an answer.

Not much more going on than that.

But since the original question has been answered, and even subsequent questions in this thread have been answered, there isn't any need for continuation.

Please use a different thread for all topics outside of the burnt beans icon.

Thank you.

[earobinson]

Good Point kass, Well I wont fork since I was only offering ideas.

NOTE / EDIT: to the users that want to talk about the banning In a usefull way you should look at azz's post (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=110465) The mods have in no way closed this thread they have just requested that we keep it on topic. Why, so that user X that is looking for a place to talk about banning can easly search the threads and find it. I have not seen any action by the mods to close this thread.

[earobinson]

Actual question related to the original post.

Is there a different caption for baned users and temp baned users?