Forum Theme Discussion

[linuxden]

Hi I have been a user of Ubuntu for a while now, I only joined the forums recently though, didnt have many probs with instalation and when i did i just searched the forums... (thats a sign of great forums...)

I have been a invisble member of the comunity ;o) I defo like the way that sounds... (spy like!!!)

Anyways... since the forums came back up yesterday, I have noticed something am not too keen on....

Am not complaining am just bringing it to attention...:

The search tab used to have a great drop down menu!!! Where is that gone??? Now i have to click advanced search and i even have to fill in a form... to see posts with no response....when i just used to be able to click on 0 response...

And for new threads, and all other actions...why do i have to click on the folder icon or all other icons, and not on a button with written new thread... Not a super problem but it took me a few more seconds than i had to figure it out...

Its the little things that count...

ps: sorry for the nitpicking... lol

[adam.tropics]

The search drop down menu is still there. Are you sure you're not looking at the 'search this thread, rather than the one in the top mnu (up, and to the left!!! )

[Gowator]

What has happened to the Forum's.
It seems I no longer have a view my threads or view my posts icon so there goes bothering to answer questions for people if I can't even find them again (easily) afterwards. Anyone married/partnered to a lady who's idea of tools is something to be hidden away at the back of a storage cupboard will know this feeling ...
I now come back to see who I was helping and its too much trouble... by the time I find the threads I'm already bored of the idea .. so hey ho this post and bye... and next time I come back the same I guess.

If you expect people to give uop their time helping others then provide them with the tools to do this withouit wasting their time. I won't be answering any questions again because I would be unable to follow up the question and the poor person Im trying to help would be stranded as their post flies down 50+ pages and drops off the end.

"View new posts" .. what's the point 6 hours later I have 20 pages .. just like the 50+ pages of unanswered posts?

[linuxden]

Yes i am sure... Instead of having the whole list of shortcuts, it only has search box + advanced link which then opens up a new page and gives a list of different search options....

They have also changed all the little buttons to Icons some of which are not self explanatary...

Ex: ONLINE was much better than a small yellow sun that blends into the white background...
Reply with quote is very light and small which makes it hard to see...

Does anyone else find this a prob??

Not being a troll of any sort just querying...

[manicka]

It doesn't appear to be in the new default theme as yet. If you want that feature why not switch back to the old Ubuntu Brown skin using the chooser in the drop down menu in the bottom left hand corner.

[linuxden]

Manicka,

Thank you, it has now solved in all honesty an unimportant but nonetheless anoying little issue i was having with the new theme...

Why was the new them implemented?? Has it got something to do with the down time we have been experiencing??

[manicka]

The new theme works better with the upgraded server software. If you experience any problems with useability in the old theme over time, then changing back to the new default should solve them for you.

[Gowator]

It doesn't appear to be in the new default theme as yet. If you want that feature why not switch back to the old Ubuntu Brown skin using the chooser in the drop down menu in the bottom left hand corner.

Whew.. when it is made the default I will be leaving the forums ...
It is crazy! I can now find the people I was helping yesterday and still help them ...

since this might become the new format and remove my choice I will not be starting to help any new questions since the new format would make it too mch hassle

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=121024

[linuxden]

Gowator,

It seems it is the dfault format... But inst just real easy to changed from default to brown theme 3.5...?

[linuxden]

The new theme works better with the upgraded server software. If you experience any problems with useability in the old theme over time, then changing back to the new default should solve them for you.

What kind of problems are we talking about? email notification and things like this??

[linbetwin]

Now the "New Posts" button is missing in the new default theme.

[aysiu]

I, too, have been frustrated with the forums downtime and occasional loss of functionality (even when it's up).

I guess you and I have different methods of helping people, though. I don't track threads I've helped people in. I just check new posts.

If the person responds back (or someone else helps), the thread will be bumped. If not, then it gets lost. It's up to the person who needs help to take the initiative to bring that thread up again, as far as I'm concerned.

[ubuntu-geek]

Well, it takes constent tweaking to ensure this board is 100% functional. Its a real crappy month and I am frustrated more then you I can bet you on that.

What loss of functionality are you seeing? You can view "new posts" just click on the search link it drops down a menu select your choice its not rocket science.

Its the nature of a forum if someone doesnt reply to a thread it gets moved down as new ones get posted. You can sort/change the order at your own discretion.

Its a 2 way street..

[theh0g]

Can you please make a normal icon for "new post", it's almost hidden. I had to rely on ALT to see what the icon means...and trust me, I no n00b in webdevelopment.

[ubuntu-geek]

Does anyone have anything positive to say? :)

[mike998]

I hate to say it, but the new icon scheme is horrible. It's hard for me to make out (bad eyesight) and a little confusing. Is there an alternate we can use?

[linuxden]

Well, it takes constent tweaking to ensure this board is 100% functional. Its a real crappy month and I am frustrated more then you I can bet you on that.

What loss of functionality are you seeing? You can view "new posts" just click on the search link it drops down a menu select your choice its not rocket science.



Ubuntu -Geek,

In the new default theme the drop down menu has been limited to search and an advance link... there is no more "new posts" link...

You can always revert to the ubun tu brown theme 3.5 there is another thread i started this morning about this and its been resolved...

[arnieboy]

the new skin looks quite nice.. but yeah.. "new thread", "reply" and "quote" should have their prominent icons (with text) reinstated in the default skin..
The tiny folder icons at the corner are simply not good enough and most new users will miss them. most new users will not change their skins... they would not even know there are multiple skins and will end up confused and frustrated.

[linuxden]

the new skin looks quite nice.. but yeah.. "new thread", "reply" and "quote" should have their prominent icons (with text) reinstated in the default skin..
The tiny folder icons at the corner are simply not good enough and most new users will miss them. most new users will not change their skins... they would not even know there are multiple skins and will end up confused and frustrated.

Arnieboy,

you speak my mind...

(oh and thanks for automatix) lol

[Bou]

Hi, and congrats for the site. It's communities like this what make Ubuntu great.

I would like to make a cosmetical, unimportan suggestion, though. The pages "icon" looks quite ugly on Epiphany, with that white background. I believe it shoul be replaced with a new one, using a transparent background.

I'll try to show you what I mean in a graphical way:

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/8866/sinnombre7oo.jpg

Thanks!

[curuxz]

Yea i have to agree the icons would be nice to be restored, I realy like how much work the forum staff put in but some of the stuff changed would fall under my if it aint broke dont fix belief.

Also Im currently in IE (yea yea I know im platform testing sites though so its ok) and the ranks look teirble because of its non-complience with png (ms's non comp).

[kassetra]

The new theme is in place because of a few reasons:

1. The load times of the server became completely unmanageable with the other theme (it has too many bugs and memory leaks.)

2. The old theme was not upgradeable - so it would have started completely breaking as we upgrade the forum software.

3. The old theme would not allow for new features or any other improvements, either.


The new theme is in place because after just a couple of months trying the previous theme, it was obvious that it was not compatible.

We are still editing this new theme, but it is our goal to keep it as flexible and non-version dependent as possible.

EDIT: One more thing to keep in mind... currently, only GIF images are supported for most of the images in a theme.

[linuxden]

Kassetra wouldnt it be possible to at least get some bigger icons or include some writting on them??

Look at the 2 screenshots, they are really big differences in usability...

You guys are the judges anyways, but at least you know our thoughts about it...

[kassetra]

Kassetra wouldnt it be possible to at least get some bigger icons or include some writting on them??

Look at the 2 screenshots, they are really big differences in usability...

You guys are the judges anyways, but at least you know our thoughts about it...

I created both themes, so I know what the differences are.

Text in the icons is actually relatively new (only in the last theme, and only two icons before that) and people seemed to manage prior to text icons just fine, but I'll see what I can do to add some text in the icons.

[linuxden]

I created both themes, so I know what the differences are.
.

Kassetra i was only making a visual comparison not implying you had no idea of what the themes look like...(i was not attacking you or your artistic capabilities.)

They may look great on your monitor but unfortunately on mine and on others they dont, so they are forcing us to stick to the old theme which apparently is heavy on the server ressources...which is probs not very good in making the uptime better...

I unfortunately will have to stick to the old theme untill the new one is more usable...

[kassetra]

Kassetra i was only making a visual comparison not implying you had no idea of what the themes look like...(i was not attacking you or your artistic capabilities.) I didn't say you were.
But I do know the difference between the two themes - visually as well, as do others.

They may look great on your monitor but unfortunately on mine and on others they dont, so they are forcing us to stick to the old theme which apparently is heavy on the server ressources...which is probs not very good in making the uptime better...

I unfortunately will have to stick to the old theme untill the new one is more usable... I never said they looked great or even referred to my monitor. All I did is explain why we have changed themes, so I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that I think they look great or that I don't understand that you don't think they look great; I did hear you the first time you complained, you do not need to repeat yourself.

As I said previously, I will see what I can do about adding text to the icons.

[linuxden]

I didn't say you were.
But I do know the difference between the two themes - visually as well, as do others.

I never said they looked great or even referred to my monitor. All I did is explain why we have changed themes, so I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that I think they look great or that I don't understand that you don't think they look great; I did hear you the first time you complained, you do not need to repeat yourself.

As I said previously, I will see what I can do about adding text to the icons.


Mmmmmmmmmmm, Ok thank you then!

[manicka]

Kass, thankyou for getting those extra search options back into the menu of the new default. I'll go out on a limb and say that I like the new theme both visually and in its functionality. It seems to load pages quicker and I imagine will reduce the load on the server if we all use it.

Great work :)

[matthew]

Does anyone have anything positive to say? :)I do.

I think the problems are trivial compared to the increased speed that the forums now have. If there is an added stability and ease of administration as well than I say great. The little bells and whistles are really nice things to have, but I hang out here for the company, for fun, and to help out a bit when I can. Whether or not I get button X to do action Y will not contribute to my presence or absence from these forums.

Seriously, guys, chill out a little on the complaining, huh? U-G and Kass really do work hard and have their hearts in the right place. They are open and willing to talk about features and incredibly responsive to requests and constructive comments. When those requests are phrased as grumpy grumbling it's no wonder they get a bit defensive from time to time. They are engaged in a lot of work to provide and maintain these forums and perhaps we could show a bit of appreciation and make our desires known as polite requests, not rude demands.

EDIT: It took me a while to write this in between other stuff I was doing. In the meanwhile a couple of others have said nice things too. Just acknowledging that wonderful fact.

[linuxden]

I do.

I think the problems are trivial compared to the increased speed that the forums now have. If there is an added stability and ease of administration as well than I say great. The little bells and whistles are really nice things to have, but I hang out here for the company, for fun, and to help out a bit when I can. Whether or not I get button X to do action Y will not contribute to my presence or absence from these forums.

Seriously, guys, chill out a little on the complaining, huh? U-G and Kass really do work hard and have their hearts in the right place. They are open and willing to talk about features and incredibly responsive to requests and constructive comments. When those requests are phrased as grumpy grumbling it's no wonder they get a bit defensive from time to time. They are engaged in a lot of work to provide and maintain these forums and perhaps we could show a bit of appreciation and make our desires known as polite requests, not rude demands.

EDIT: It took me a while to write this in between other stuff I was doing. In the meanwhile a couple of others have said nice things too. Just acknowledging that wonderful fact.

As a gesture i will make an effort and start using the new default theme...

Kassetra thank you for reeinstating the search menu the way it was before.

[super]

Does anyone have anything positive to say? :)
see, now i feel like a jerk saying this

but

i gotta agree with most of the people in this thread.

the contrast between the icons and the background is just a little too low. it makes you kinda squint to see the icons. the icons themselves are nice looking it's just that the light brown/grey makes it a little hard to see/read.

and the lack of text with the icons doesn't help either. for example i need to interpret the icon for 'quick reply' or 'reply with quote' when the old button actually said 'quote'

that said, i do like some of the new changes like the site map/welcome banner at the top. it looks much better than before. and the updated emoticons at the side ( like =; this one) are cool.

[linuxden]

As a side note the new/reply button in the top left corner is not fitting in the brown rectangle button... perhaps only new would be better?

[ubuntu-geek]

So if I am understanding this you people are crying over cosmetics and not functionalty? Give me a legit function that is missing and we'll fix it, until then we will improve this lighter base theme as we get time.

[mstlyevil]

So if I am understanding this you people are crying over cosmetics and not functionalty? Give me a legit function that is missing and we'll fix it, until then we will improve this lighter base theme as we get time.

I think you and Kass are doing a stand up job and I want to say I appreciate all the hard work you guys do for us. (And for free even!) ;)

[linuxden]

So if I am understanding this you people are crying over cosmetics and not functionalty? Give me a legit function that is missing and we'll fix it, until then we will improve this lighter base theme as we get time.

You say this as if cosmetic value is unimportant...

If i were recently converting to Linux and Ubuntu in particular i would trust this distro more than another because of the general quality of the forums...

I am also considering what new Ubuntu users would see in a disfunctional and not visualy pleasing forum.

[ubuntu-geek]

You say this as if cosmetic value is unimportant...

If i were recently converting to Linux and Ubuntu in particular i would trust this distro more than another because of the general quality of the forums...

I am also considering what new Ubuntu users would see in a disfunctional and not visualy pleasing forum.
And I quote.. "until then we will improve this lighter base theme as we get time."

[linuxden]

You guys are doing what you can...

Thank you for the work.

As long as you realise that some things are not up to scratch in the new forum theme, I will abstain from posting in this thread... because it is not exactly constructive!

Once again thank you for the work you guys are putting in for free.

[kassetra]

As long as you realise that some things are not up to scratch in the new forum theme,
For you, yes, we understand that quite well.

But please, if you're going to show screenshots of what is 'wrong' please make sure you are using the default font sizes etc. that we have set up - we can't theme for every font size and every custom change that a user makes to their browser setup.

[carlosqueso]

GOOD:
MUCH faster
It looks a lot more professional
I love the top banner thingy.
Report bad posts button makes more sense

BAD:
Some button's icons don't give much clue to their function. (reply buttons especially)
no way to see who's veiwing the particular thread (I use that to judge how quickly someone will respond)

All in all....thanks a lot for your continued work. It's these forums that are the reason I continue to use Ubuntu.

[ShirishAg75]

Like the new icons, makes everything very snappy & professional. Cool :)

[matid]

I really like new theme, but it still have some bugs:
* Green arrows still lack proper transparency, some tiny part of the icon is white
* Some icons are still not updated, e.g. pinned topic icon.
* Why is the rewind icon responsible for skipping to the first new post? IMO it looks weird and should be replaced with sth. else.

And the rest is brilliant ;)

[Bou]

I wanted to point out that the tooltips for "quick reply" and "reply with quote" aren't showing right when maximized, since they go out the edge of the screen and you can only read "Quic..." and "Reply wit...". Dunno if this happened before, though.

[Gowator]

I, too, have been frustrated with the forums downtime and occasional loss of functionality (even when it's up).

I guess you and I have different methods of helping people, though. I don't track threads I've helped people in. I just check new posts.

If the person responds back (or someone else helps), the thread will be bumped. If not, then it gets lost. It's up to the person who needs help to take the initiative to bring that thread up again, as far as I'm concerned.

It depends what Im doing. Largely a thread will fall off the first page after a short period, perhaps 1/2 hour or less and I don't usually check with less than this.
I might say "try this and get back with the results" (often do) and if I check back 6 hours later its likely to be hidden on page 10 or 20 of new posts.
What I usually do is "View your posts" and find what they responded (if anything)...

What loss of functionality are you seeing? You can view "new posts" just click on the search link it drops down a menu select your choice its not rocket science.

Its the nature of a forum if someone doesnt reply to a thread it gets moved down as new ones get posted. You can sort/change the order at your own discretion.

1. That is too much hassle for me helping someone else. Realise I just want to check back and see if they have tried what I suggested, it may sound tough but I suspect I am not the only one who doesn't want to spend time looking to see if the last person has replied or not! If I'm looking for an answer to a question I posed then I will spend time but I am not as motivated to do this. It is not the loss of new posts but the loss of view my posts... it is not rocket science either but it is a multiclick and typing operation... search, advanced type my name then search ... and I have to repeat it for every active post I have open...

It is not the single act that irritates me but its continual need when I am just trying to help someone else. When Im looking for my threads where someone is helping me its not an issue but when I am giving away my time to help others I expect that the board management does not take away tools that help!


2. I'm not stupid, I realise threads move down which is why we need a way to find them however I have been chastised more than once for bumping a thread after 1 month of inactivity let aloine the 30 mins it takes to slip off page 1.

edit: fixed quotes

[ubuntu-geek]

I really like new theme, but it still have some bugs:
* Green arrows still lack proper transparency, some tiny part of the icon is white
* Some icons are still not updated, e.g. pinned topic icon.
* Why is the rewind icon responsible for skipping to the first new post? IMO it looks weird and should be replaced with sth. else.

And the rest is brilliant ;)
1. Fixed
2. Fixed (I think I got them all)

[linuxden]

1. Fixed
2. Fixed (I think I got them all)


Ubuntu Geek, I have been using the new theme since i mentioned it in my last post in the thread...

I have to congratulate you! You have done a good job in improving it it thus far... GOOD JOB!!

Hope it doesnt take too much of your valuable time/weekend up...

Oh and thank you!

[ubuntu-geek]

Ubuntu Geek, I have been using the new theme since i mentioned it in my last post in the thread...

I have to congratulate you! You have done a good job in improving it it thus far... GOOD JOB!!

Hope it doesnt take too much of your valuable time/weekend up...

Oh and thank you!
Thanks.. I just upgraded the forums to vb 3.5.3 to fix some exploits so a few sections of the templates need to be modified but it should not take to long. So bare with a new minor glitches during the next 30-40 minutes. :)

[linuxden]

No probs...

[ember]

O.k. I also use the new theme now - yet it seems and I like it. Yet there seems to be a small bug that makes the second coloumn in the 'Customisation'-Forums (the one with the 'Gnome', 'KDE', 'Generel' prefix) far too large. The third one with the thread topic is now very small for me.
(seen with Firefox 1.5 on Windows)

[ubuntu-geek]

O.k. I also use the new theme now - yet it seems and I like it. Yet there seems to be a small bug that makes the second coloumn in the 'Customisation'-Forums (the one with the 'Gnome', 'KDE', 'Generel' prefix) far too large. The third one with the thread topic is now very small for me.
(seen with Firefox 1.5 on Windows)
Yes, I am working on that one :)

[ember]

Looks like it works now - thanks.

[Galoot]

No complaints. All the content is still here.

[Madpilot]

I just noticed the "Your theme is going to vanish" box and switched to the new default/brown theme. Most of it's pretty much identical to the old brown theme, but there's a couple of details from the old one that I miss:

- sticky threads used to have a different coloured (more yellow) background; now they've got the same background as regular threads so it's harder to ignore them/tell them apart from mobile threads.
- related, the old icons for sticky/locked etc seemed clearer than the new ones.
- EDIT TO ADD: the "you have posted X times to this thread" icon isn't as clear as the old one, either... The little tiny extra icons in the corners of the main post icon are far smaller than they were with the old brown theme!

Aside from that, as I said, it seems basically identical. What caused the old theme to be removed?

(Sorry if these have been mentioned before, I didn't see them in a quick skim of the earlier posts in this thread...)

[Gowator]

Well the Search box now has its old searches back ?

Is this permanent or not ... why take them away and then bring them back without saying ?

All I want to know is if we will continue to have a "Find all your posts button" next weekm month? before I waste any of my time answering any questions.

Is it planned to withdraw this again... it this one of the functions that affected the server ...

do you ever intend to answer the questions asked about which parts had to be withdrawn because of the server and which parts were withdrawn because someone felt like it? or is we had to change it not quite true and just an excuse...

perhaps it was just a mistake and you are trying to pretend it never happened thus trying to make me look ridiculous...

seriously just say .. if you want to get rid of peope on the board why not just close peoples accounts instead of playing about like a child?

[kassetra]

Well the Search box now has its old searches back ?

Is this permanent or not ... why take them away and then bring them back without saying ?

All I want to know is if we will continue to have a "Find all your posts button" next weekm month? before I waste any of my time answering any questions.

Is it planned to withdraw this again... it this one of the functions that affected the server ...

do you ever intend to answer the questions asked about which parts had to be withdrawn because of the server and which parts were withdrawn because someone felt like it? or is we had to change it not quite true and just an excuse...

perhaps it was just a mistake and you are trying to pretend it never happened thus trying to make me look ridiculous...

seriously just say .. if you want to get rid of peope on the board why not just close peoples accounts instead of playing about like a child?
The forum software was in need of upgrades as well as bug fixes. The forum software itself has a list of functions that are available, and as the versions change, these functions may or may not be available for admins to use when creating themes.

In the case of the two themes in question, the older theme has many functions and requirements that are being phased out in newer versions of the software, and thus will no longer be available to use inside of the template files. If we did not create a new theme now to gradually fix most of the differences in usability as the older theme becomes deprecated, we would have had to simply dump the old theme, toss in a new one and hope for the best.

As many users have expressed, that tactic is not appreciated - which is why we have the old theme still available for people to use and compare as we make changes to the new default theme in order to enhance it's usability - and *gradually* phase out the older one.

While I understand your frustration, accusing the forum staff of simply tossing out functions when we feel like it is completely uncalled for as we have stated quite clearly, numerous times, that we are in the process of changing the themes because the old one will start to break and cannot be repaired.

Can any one of us say with 100% certainty that any one function will never go away? No, we cannot. Can we say that as we are transitioning over to the new theme and the new way of using the forum functions we have at our disposal that some things may not be 100% perfect at first? Yes, and as we have shown, we are altering the template files in order to provide as much of what people ask for as the forum software has available for us to use and can be implemented without the need for a major revision to the software itself.

It is a fact of forum life that the software will need to be upgraded and that items will be deprecated.

Obviously, instead of taking the time and effort required to provide for two themes on the forum while making this transition, we could simply have upgraded the software and let the current theme shatter apart, sending users of the forum hurtling off into unknown broken functionality and impaired usage. So please think before you accuse us of doing things for spite - when we are in fact dishing out the extra effort to try and accommodate every user at once.

[Gowator]

Thanks,
Im not looking for 100% I just want to know if the quick searches will be preserved or not ... I honestly don't care about color or icons just the ability to find my last posts quickly and efficiently and reply to other posts...

Im using the new theme now ... Its fine and it implements the menu's from the old one... my overriding concern was simply that this is possible but until you answered this question was unanswered even though I asked specifically about show my posts several times.. and another poster asked which were the functions which caused too much server load.

If people complain about color or layout then I don't care unless they are genuine usability questions .for visually imparied or colorblindness.. but functions which are used to help people help others should be a high priority.

If some stated goal existed it would be easier to expect people to be more patient but just swapping stuff over and not saying is always going to get sarcastic remarks.

[matid]

Yet another bug - topic rating icons are not fully transparent (http://flickr.com/photos/matid/93543998/)

[kassetra]

Yet another bug - topic rating icons are not fully transparent (http://flickr.com/photos/matid/93543998/)

And the crappy gif format bug strikes again.

Ok, attempting to make those nicer.

[linuxden]

Kassetra,

While your working hard killing the "gif" bug, Just wanted to say how much the default theme has improved since i started the thread...

Good job!!

[WildTangent]

I just noticed now that you still offer the Kubuntu theme...but not the old Ubuntu one? I'd like to continue using it, but if need be, I'll just use the Kubuntu one as long as I can.

Anyhoo...the biggest gripe I have with the new theme is the icons, I liked the old ones much better. I don't mind the actual colours of the new theme, just the icons :P

-Wild

[linuxden]

Wild tangent,

At first i was horified to be using the new theme... you can tell by the beginign of this post....

But now am pretty much used to it, It has got tons and tons better in the last few days... The icons are still a bit on the small side, perhaps the chosen colours are too light for me to see them properly but it is useable...
and my brain after a steep learning curve remembered that the two lil icons on the bottom right hand corner of each post are for "quote" and "quick reply".... :D

My suggestion get use to the new default theme now, so you/we dont have the same type of thread when "Kubuntu blue" gets modified...(if it does)

Just my $0.2

[WildTangent]

I went back to default already, Kubuntu blue pisses me off :P I'll get used to it...but the current icons really do need some work.

-Wild

[linuxden]

I went back to default already, Kubuntu blue pisses me off :P-Wild

Reminds me too much of windows!! LMAO (for some weird reason...)

[lha]

Hi,

I was disappointed with the new default at first. I liked the old brown theme. But ATM, I'm happy with this new theme. It has been improved remarkably in just a few days and now it looks good. Thanks!

However, I have noticed a minor bug. My options show I am using the forum default theme, but under my avatar reads 'Style: Ubuntu_Brown_v3.5' even there's no such a theme anymore.