Our friend, the Windows user...

[aysiu]

Last night, our Windows user friend came over--we'll call her Kathy.

It was funny. We were chatting on Skype with each other (even though we were all in the same apartment... just for fun)--Kathy on her Windows laptop, my wife on her Mac Powerbook laptop, I on my Ubuntu desktop.

At one point, we were testing out emoticons. Apparently, if someone uses an emoticon that your version of Skype can't understand, instead of a graphic appearing, you get words in parentheses. So my wife had some weird muscle emoticon (OS X) that Kathy and I saw only as (muscle). If I typed (mooning) all I saw was (mooning), but my wife and Kathy saw a little graphic of a man pulling down his pants and show off his rear end.

Kathy was surprised that I couldn't see a lot of the emoticons, and then she turned around, looked at my monitor, and said, "Oh, 'cause you're using Linux."

In her mind, Linux doesn't "just work" because of things like a few emoticons in Skype not working.

One time I set up Linux for her on an old computer, and it was a disappointing experience for her. I shouldn't have because I was just a beginner then (had been using Linux only about a month). I put KDE on 128 MB of RAM (I should have used XFCE) and didn't realize Thunderbird and Hotmail mix only so well (shouldn't have even set up Linux on her computer, since she likes to use Outlook Express instead of checking Hotmail on a web browser). So she got her emails all redownloaded (and duplicated) every time she checked her email and her computer would freeze if she had more than two applications open.

Since then, she's ditched the 128 MB computer and gotten a new Toshiba laptop with Windows XP.

Has it "just worked"? Hardly. But she doesn't complain about Windows. In this way, she's a very typical Windows user--skeptical of Linux, tolerant of Windows.

What's gone wrong with her laptop?

1. I lent her a Windows game I got for a birthday present (I don't game) called Star Wars: Knights of the Republic. She said it didn't work properly because of some weird bug. There was a patch available that was supposed to address the problem, but it didn't address her problem. The game installer also warned her that her system didn't meet the minimum specifications for the game, but it actually did.

2. Her CD-ROM drive burns coasters half the time. I asked her if it was the burning program she was using, but she's tried it with several different programs. I asked if it was the speed, but she said she's tried burning at low speeds, too. She insists it's not that her CD-ROM drive (hardware) is broken, and her latest theory is that it's the disks (depending on the brand). Of course, my CD burner in Ubuntu and my wife's CD burner in OS X work fine on all brands of blank CD we've tried.

3. When she opens her laptop from sleep, sometimes a few keys don't work.

Now, those three problems are pretty serious problems, I'd say. The game I gave her was designed for Windows. She's not trying to use Cedega to play it. It's a very popular game. It's not some obscure piece of software. Her laptop is new. Her CD-ROM drive burns coasters half the time. This is a new laptop that she paid money for.

If I were her, I'd either take the laptop back for a refund/exchange or pop Ubuntu on it.

She's a die-hard Windows user, though. She honestly doesn't mind that stuff doesn't work as long as it's Windows. But a few emoticons don't show up in a Linux Skype chat? "Oh, it's 'cause you're using Linux."

The point of the story isn't that Windows is crap or that Toshiba is. I've used Windows before, and the operating system doesn't consistently burn coasters or not play games.

The experience, however, confirms two things I've generally found:

A) Computer problems happen from time to time, no matter what operating system you use (yes, my wife's had problems with her Mac Powerbook, too, but she still loves it). They're not unique to Linux-based operating systems.

B) Windows users just don't see it that way. If things screw up in Windows, that's too bad. If they screw up in Linux, that's to be expected.

[mstlyevil]

It's the damned if you do damned if you don't syndrome. It is funny that many Windows users do not use the same standards on Windows that they do Linux to decide that it is not ready for the desktop.

[dosed150]

sometimes things like that are good like using gaim = no winks or nudges

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Ignorance is bliss.

FUD is fun.

[aysiu]

In a way, there is a difference.

Her laptop isn't working the way it's supposed to. If it were working the way it was supposed to, it'd be fully functioning.

My Skype was working the way it was supposed to--Skype just makes the Linux version crippled.

In the end, though, her computer doesn't do what it's supposed to, and a lot of new Linux users (especially on these forums) judge Linux based on a bad install or incompatible hardware instead of what it's supposed to do.

[Vlammetje]

It's because most people (the ones that I know of anyway) are really, seriously, unable to grasp that something that is not 'hyped and overexpensive' and most importantly 'the standard that everybody seems to use' (well... that they know of anyway) has an alternative.

Let alone grasp that this alternative is free (oos) and can do almost everything windows can.

It's, in my opinion, because people are largely unaware of their alternatives and their choices, that they put up with whatever may be the issue with their Windows set up. And in all fairness.... not all windows set ups have problems.... and when your PC or laptop and the Windows copy on it does what you expect it to do, 'just work', chances are you won't start looking for an alternative very quickly either.

Really... when I look around me, when I say I use 'linux' (Ubuntu means nothing to most people) the usual response is that there are no applications for that, and that typical windows stuff (MSN messenger for example) won't work. Which is true to a degree but there are ways around MSN messenger clients.... and I have every application and all functionality I used to have with XP. However nobody believes me until they see it for themselves.

As for computer problems being down to the OS... I find most Windows users that have been around for a number of years (and windows releases) have come to expect a number of problems with their own boxes as well and are generally not daunted by a few blue screens here and there. Instead, they accept it as 'part of the package' in a way. Their view seems to be that linux users, essentially users of an 'unprofesional' OS, must be experiencing way more and worse problems than they have seen so far.
Well... that's what I get from the folks around me.... not necessarily representative for the entire Windows world, but interesting for feedback nonetheless.

[majikstreet]

I totally understand.. I have an aqaintance.. Let's call him "DudeWithaRepThatNoOneCanKnowThatHeIsOnAHarryPotter Podcast". Ok fine, lets not.

He thinks linux sucks. and anytime I mention it, he always calls me a name..

Maybe it's because I complain sometimes about alsa or networking issues to him... lol...

majik

[aysiu]

Vlammetje, I agree with your general analysis.

And familiarity breeds comfort, no matter what.

Even getting people to switch browsers was relatively painful until recently (now that Firefox has really taken off). Switching operating systems is a big step.

[tufkakf]

Who cares?
If she prefers windows, let her use windows and be done with it.

Really, I don't get why so many people around here seem to be so preoccupied with windows, windows users and windows users making dumb comments.

I for one don't use Ubuntu because it's not windows, or because I want to stick it to MS, but because I simply like it.

[aysiu]

Who cares?
If she prefers windows, let her use windows and be done with it. I am letting her use Windows. If you read the original post, I actually said it was a mistake for me to push Linux on her in the first place (go ahead--read the first post). What bugs me is the perception that Linux is crap, even when people experience more problems on Windows.

[xequence]

B) Windows users just don't see it that way. If things screw up in Windows, that's too bad. If they screw up in Linux, that's to be expected.

Im offended =P I use windows and I dont think that. I know that some things work better in some OSes.

Windows by any means isnt perfect, but it gets the job done for me ;)

[xequence]

B) Windows users just don't see it that way. If things screw up in Windows, that's too bad. If they screw up in Linux, that's to be expected.

Im offended =P I use windows and I dont think that. I know that some things work better in some OSes.

Windows by any means isnt perfect, but it gets the job done for me ;)

[prizrak]

Toshiba laptops suck anyways the OS makes no difference (Toshiba user)

[public_void]

IMO its just plain not knowing or experiences something non-Windows which shouldn't be happening. For example when I told a windows user that when installing software I don't restart, he couldn't understand why. Or when I told him that the repos have 17000+ packages for free and I could download any of them at any time, he was amazed. Now he interested and wants to duel-boot XP and Ubuntu on the next computer he's about to build. But some people are just ignorance. An example is a member on another forum, who never has anything good to say about Linux in general and plays up Windows. He has never used any Linux distro, which I thing says it all.

[ctt1wbw]

Linux sucks man. I hate Linux. It's the worst POS OS out there. Know why? I can't get emoticons to work... :D

[bixin]

As a very new Linux user from an Windows user since 6th grade, Linux is hard and oh so confusing. My husband who wants Windows back on our desktop desprately thinks that Linux isn't worth the effort. He can't just click something on the fly and have it work and everything has diffrent names. It's true Linux is a lot more involved, but I like it. Then again I love to problem solve. I have our machine basically to my liking now so I think of it as basically another operating system, no muss no fuss. I like Linux for the simple fact that for kids its the best thing. They can't download their normal spyware riddled crap, delete all my program files . * my husband just made the comment no matter how frustrated I get tinkering with Linux I am usually smiling when I tell others about it or I'm working on it* Its just good if you have kids, IMHO. But it has its moments when I say, you know what just tell me the industry standard on it. I don't care how you do it I want to know how it is basically done. Its like my deleting files problem. Why does it give me the option to delete the file when I right click it, but then Its not a choice or I have no permission. Why don't i have permission I am the sole user of the computer why wasn't I given the permission from jump. Yeah I strayed on that part but that is my current quest. I will still continue to use Linux as this problem is only a pebble.

[Mr_J_]

Now that you mention it...
That is true.
Windows has problems and we should expect it, but Linux just has problems.

It's the getting tired and getting used to solution.
Windows isn't better, it's just that people got used to the problems and make no decision as to what they could do to not get those same problems anymore.

[tufkakf]

I am letting her use Windows. If you read the original post, I actually said it was a mistake for me to push Linux on her in the first place (go ahead--read the first post).

I read your first post. Reading it made me write my answer. And there's no need to imply I didn't read it. That's insulting.


What bugs me is the perception that Linux is crap, even when people experience more problems on Windows.
And what bugs me is perceiving Windows users as unenlightened, ignorant fools and feeling leet and above them because you were able to install ubuntu. Wow....

[DigitalDuality]

Im offended =P I use windows and I dont think that. I know that some things work better in some OSes.

Windows by any means isnt perfect, but it gets the job done for me ;)

Looks like Windows is working doubly good for you today ;)

[aysiu]

I read your first post. Reading it made me write my answer. And there's no need to imply I didn't read it. That's insulting. Actually, it's quite the opposite--it's giving you the benefit of the doubt. What would really be insulting would be to assume you'd read the first post but were too stupid to comprehend it.

It's far more plausible and forgiving to assume that you were intelligent enough to understand it but simply didn't read it completely.

I said in the first post (perhaps the part you read but not carefully) that it was a mistake for me to push Linux on her when I did. She is a Windows user and should stay a Windows user.

My point, which I made explicit at the end of the first post, was not that Windows users are stupid, ignorant, or whatnot, but that they often hold a double standard for Linux and Windows--Windows problems, okay; Linux problems, not okay.

[DigitalDuality]

Why don't i have permission I am the sole user of the computer why wasn't I given the permission from jump. Yeah I strayed on that part but that is my current quest. I will still continue to use Linux as this problem is only a pebble.

No user account should have root (admin) permission. It's a security feature to keep malicious software from installing.. or to give others unlimited access to a machine.

If you want root permission, you sudo... or you log in as root to do your admnistrative duties, and then get out of it.

Or you could be lazy, practice bad security techniques..and just run as root all the time, but that's really ill advised.

It's stupid, that Windows doesn't enforce this type of option from install, but instead gives users default admin control over their machine. Giving you the option to use a disabled "delete" function will produce an error message, which is useful for dissecting problems. That wouldn't happen simply if the option wasn't there.

[angkor]

So my wife had some weird muscle emoticon (OS X) that Kathy and I saw only as (muscle). If I typed (mooning) all I saw was (mooning), but my wife and Kathy saw a little graphic of a man pulling down his pants and show off his rear end.

:)

I was chatting with my best friend using Gaim and he was using Adium on OSX. I said something with a question mark in parenthesis (?). He replied with "wtf...lol". Turns out (?) shows up as an icon showing a question mark with 'asl' beneeth it.... :shock:

[BSDFreak]

My point, which I made explicit at the end of the first post, was not that Windows users are stupid, ignorant, or whatnot, but that they often hold a double standard for Linux and Windows--Windows problems, okay; Linux problems, not okay.

I've said something along the lines that "if it doesn't work in Linux it's because Linux lacks hardware support but if it doesn't work in Windows it's because it's the wrong hardware"

I think you are right when you say that people are a lot more willing to accept mishaps and bugs in Windows than in Linux but i can't say that i really care unless people are actively complaining about whatever OS they are using.

You also said

What bugs me is the perception that Linux is crap, even when people experience more problems on Windows.

And i say that this goes both ways, there are 500+ threads in this forum whining about how worthless Windows is yet this forum has absolutely nothing to do with that OS.

[tufkakf]

Actually, it's quite the opposite--it's giving you the benefit of the doubt. What would really be insulting would be to assume you'd read the first post but were too stupid to comprehend it.

It's far more plausible and forgiving to assume that you were intelligent enough to understand it but simply didn't read it completely.

Is this really the style in which you normally conduct conversations with other people. By continually insulting them? Sad.


I said in the first post (perhaps the part you read but not carefully) that it was a mistake for me to push Linux on her when I did. She is a Windows user and should stay a Windows user.

No, you told us a little story about you putting kubuntu on a laptop with 128 of ram for her though you didn't know what you were doing, which, surprise, surprise, didn't work out. Maybe it's you who should read the first post again.


My point, which I made explicit at the end of the first post, was not that Windows users are stupid, ignorant, or whatnot, but that they often hold a double standard for Linux and Windows--Windows problems, okay; Linux problems, not okay.
Ehm, it's very simple. If people hold double standards like the ones you described they are at the very least ignorant, so what's your point.
Also, you didn't even qualify your statement, but simply spoke of windows users, not of some, most or a few.

[Lovechild]

Windows users should be tolerated, not befriended

[PatrickMay16]

Whoa! Whoa! Tufkakf, man. Cool down... Let's not be fightin'. After skimming through the posts you've made on this forum, you seem to argue a lot, and you seem very aggressive.

So, I tell you, calm down, man. No need to be so aggressive, right?

Anyway, to the original post at hand... I've noticed the same thing. Recently I set up Ubuntu on my old computer (which is unstable, so it freezes) and my brother came over to have a look. As he was trying it out, it froze, and he said "Man, I thought Linux was supposed to be stable!" even though it was fairly clear this was a dodgey computer.

I guess people are less trustworthy of Linux, since they don't know it so well.

[tufkakf]

Whoa! Whoa! Tufkakf, man. Cool down... Let's not be fightin'. After skimming through the posts you've made on this forum, you seem to argue a lot, and you seem very aggressive.

You know, I would have really appreciate it if you had made this kind of comment about me in a private message, not here.


So, I tell you, calm down, man. No need to be so aggressive, right?

If you think that's aggressive, you obviously haven't seen me aggressive then, man. I simply don't really appreciate being insulted and I don't see any reason why I shouldn't react to it the way I did.

[mohapi]

Re: the OP. ...

I've also seen this kind of laissez-faire attitude toward shortcomings in Windows, most recently when I tried to hook up Evolution to my parents' Earthlink account. It didn't work on the first try, and my father just kind of smirked and shook his head.

This is the same man I caught downloading a third e-mail client for Windows, because the other ones weren't working "right." He wanted something that wasn't as faulty as Outlook, but still behaved exactly like it.

To me, that kind of blind tolerance of Windows and summary disapproval of Linux comes from another direction -- his job. It's probably safe to say that, in most Windows-based office environments like his, when something goes wrong, you holler at a techie, who comes over and fixes it for you. In the worst case scenario, you're told the machine is at fault.

So most baseline users (if you don't mind me using that term) are 1) used to things going wrong, 2) used to someone else fixing it or finding a workaround, and 3) eventually running into that brick wall -- which is blamed on the machine. And when that happens, you go buy a new one.

So a new OS is uncharted territory. Most people are consigned to it not quite working like Windows, because Windows doesn't quite work. But that's OK, because ultimately, Windows is never at fault for its own shortcomings. Of course things go wrong, but if they're not fixed by Randy the technician, then it's the fault of the hardware. Doesn't work? Go buy a new computer and the latest version of Windows. It's bound to work sometime.

Heck, I've seen that in my brother, who's an MCSE and hasn't the least bit of interest in Linux. Eventually, over time, he replaces all his computers with new ones because the old ones just don't do the job right any more. There's nothing wrong with them, they just don't mesh with the new ones. Would Ubuntu solve that? Probably not, but he's too ensconced with the nitty gritty of Windows that it means little to him to think that another OS might do the job cleaner and better.

Personally, I trace that attitude back to the old fear, uncertainty and doubt argument. What works today might not work in a year or even six months. But hey, if things worked right on the first time, all the time, there would be no need for a new computer.

Most baseline users also think of computers in the same way they think of their cars -- they don't really know how they work, only that they look good and get them to work and back. If something goes wrong you take it to someone else who fixes it for you -- or says it can't be saved, and it's time to buy a new one.

So, I guess it doesn't surprise me to see your friend's reaction. The emoticon didn't work because it was Linux, and even if it didn't work in Windows, that was to be expected. Perhaps someone will fix it, if not, blame the underlying machinery ... or just buy a new computer. Maybe Windows will have gotten it right this time.

[xequence]

Looks like Windows is working doubly good for you today ;)

It was the forums. I posted and it didnt go through, so I pressed it again and it didnt go through again. Which is when the server went offline :P

[Stormy Eyes]

Windows users would be tolerated, not befriended

Hey, if I couldn't befriend Windows users, dating would have been a lot harder. My wife used to use Windows, after all.

[ctt1wbw]

Whoa! Whoa! Tufkakf, man. Cool down... Let's not be fightin'. After skimming through the posts you've made on this forum, you seem to argue a lot, and you seem very aggressive.

So, I tell you, calm down, man. No need to be so aggressive, right?

Anyway, to the original post at hand... I've noticed the same thing. Recently I set up Ubuntu on my old computer (which is unstable, so it freezes) and my brother came over to have a look. As he was trying it out, it froze, and he said "Man, I thought Linux was supposed to be stable!" even though it was fairly clear this was a dodgey computer.

I guess people are less trustworthy of Linux, since they don't know it so well.

No, the problem is that people think Windows is the best OS in the world because most people use it. It's the only thing they see. They have no desire to experience other things in life, and less desire to know that they even exist. These same people, when they want to buy a car, go buy a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry. They don't even look at the others, like the Charger or the Magnum or the new Passatt...

[earobinson]

another great post aysiu

I do get frustrated when people feel that the bugs they have in windows are normal. and that just because linux lacks support for some small things it is bugged and I think you pointed it out very well.

dosed150 gaim 2.0 will support nidges but just like in windows it will be an option you can turn off.

[joflow]

Last night, our Windows user friend came over--we'll call her Kathy.

It was funny. We were chatting on Skype with each other (even though we were all in the same apartment... just for fun)--Kathy on her Windows laptop, my wife on her Mac Powerbook laptop, I on my Ubuntu desktop.

At one point, we were testing out emoticons. Apparently, if someone uses an emoticon that your version of Skype can't understand, instead of a graphic appearing, you get words in parentheses. So my wife had some weird muscle emoticon (OS X) that Kathy and I saw only as (muscle). If I typed (mooning) all I saw was (mooning), but my wife and Kathy saw a little graphic of a man pulling down his pants and show off his rear end.

Kathy was surprised that I couldn't see a lot of the emoticons, and then she turned around, looked at my monitor, and said, "Oh, 'cause you're using Linux."

In her mind, Linux doesn't "just work" because of things like a few emoticons in Skype not working.

One time I set up Linux for her on an old computer, and it was a disappointing experience for her. I shouldn't have because I was just a beginner then (had been using Linux only about a month). I put KDE on 128 MB of RAM (I should have used XFCE) and didn't realize Thunderbird and Hotmail mix only so well (shouldn't have even set up Linux on her computer, since she likes to use Outlook Express instead of checking Hotmail on a web browser). So she got her emails all redownloaded (and duplicated) every time she checked her email and her computer would freeze if she had more than two applications open.

Since then, she's ditched the 128 MB computer and gotten a new Toshiba laptop with Windows XP.

Has it "just worked"? Hardly. But she doesn't complain about Windows. In this way, she's a very typical Windows user--skeptical of Linux, tolerant of Windows.

What's gone wrong with her laptop?

1. I lent her a Windows game I got for a birthday present (I don't game) called Star Wars: Knights of the Republic. She said it didn't work properly because of some weird bug. There was a patch available that was supposed to address the problem, but it didn't address her problem. The game installer also warned her that her system didn't meet the minimum specifications for the game, but it actually did.

2. Her CD-ROM drive burns coasters half the time. I asked her if it was the burning program she was using, but she's tried it with several different programs. I asked if it was the speed, but she said she's tried burning at low speeds, too. She insists it's not that her CD-ROM drive (hardware) is broken, and her latest theory is that it's the disks (depending on the brand). Of course, my CD burner in Ubuntu and my wife's CD burner in OS X work fine on all brands of blank CD we've tried.

3. When she opens her laptop from sleep, sometimes a few keys don't work.

Now, those three problems are pretty serious problems, I'd say. The game I gave her was designed for Windows. She's not trying to use Cedega to play it. It's a very popular game. It's not some obscure piece of software. Her laptop is new. Her CD-ROM drive burns coasters half the time. This is a new laptop that she paid money for.

If I were her, I'd either take the laptop back for a refund/exchange or pop Ubuntu on it.

She's a die-hard Windows user, though. She honestly doesn't mind that stuff doesn't work as long as it's Windows. But a few emoticons don't show up in a Linux Skype chat? "Oh, it's 'cause you're using Linux."

The point of the story isn't that Windows is crap or that Toshiba is. I've used Windows before, and the operating system doesn't consistently burn coasters or not play games.

The experience, however, confirms two things I've generally found:

A) Computer problems happen from time to time, no matter what operating system you use (yes, my wife's had problems with her Mac Powerbook, too, but she still loves it). They're not unique to Linux-based operating systems.

B) Windows users just don't see it that way. If things screw up in Windows, that's too bad. If they screw up in Linux, that's to be expected.


1. Not a windows problem.
2. Not a windows problem unless she's using the windows xp built-in CD burning.
3. Not a windows problem.

All except 1 seem like hardware issues.

[aysiu]

1. Not a windows problem.
2. Not a windows problem unless she's using the windows xp built-in CD burning.
3. Not a windows problem.

All except 1 seem like hardware issues. And, of course, when people experience hardware issues while using Linux, they never blame the Linux OS they're using--they always recognize it as a hardware issue.

[BSDFreak]

And, of course, when people experience hardware issues while using Linux, they never blame the Linux OS they're using--they always recognize it as a hardware issue.

Well, i'm fed up with the hardware support with windows, tried to install it on my Sparc and it wouldn't even boot up, same thing on my Alpha and my PPC.

I thought that Windows HW support was supposed to be top notch?

I installed NetBSD on two and debian on one and it worked out of the box...

Of course, a windows user would blame that on the hardware, not on the OS, but he would blame the lack of support for a WiFi card that uses pre-N which isn't even a real standard yet, in Linux on Linux's lack for hardware support.

Yet Linux will run on a fsckload of hardware that windows won't even boot on.

[BSDFreak]

1. Not a windows problem.
2. Not a windows problem unless she's using the windows xp built-in CD burning.
3. Not a windows problem.

All except 1 seem like hardware issues.

If you want to go that route then let's disassemble Linux into what it is, a main kernel with modules and the rest isn't Linux so as long as the kernel runs, Linux works and the rest isn't a problem with Linux.

[BSDFreak]

Hey, if I couldn't befriend Windows users, dating would have been a lot harder. My wife used to use Windows, after all.

Saw her pics on adultfriendfinder, she's kinda cute...

[aysiu]

Well, i'm fed up with the hardware support with windows, tried to install it on my Sparc and it wouldn't even boot up, same thing on my Alpha and my PPC.

I thought that Windows HW support was supposed to be top notch?

I installed NetBSD on two and debian on one and it worked out of the box...

Of course, a windows user would blame that on the hardware, not on the OS, but he would blame the lack of support for a WiFi card that uses pre-N which isn't even a real standard yet, in Linux on Linux's lack for hardware support.

Yet Linux will run on a fsckload of hardware that windows won't even boot on. My point, exactly... except that you explained it better. Thanks.

[tufkakf]

Well, i'm fed up with the hardware support with windows, tried to install it on my Sparc and it wouldn't even boot up, same thing on my Alpha and my PPC.

Actually, windows works on ppc. Think xbox.


Of course, a windows user would blame that on the hardware, not on the OS, but he would blame the lack of support for a WiFi card that uses pre-N which isn't even a real standard yet, in Linux on Linux's lack for hardware support.

Nope, an idiot would and as should be glaringly obvious, especially after reading this thread, not all windows users are idiots, while on the other ends there are enough linux users that are. Quod erat demonstrandum.

[joflow]

And, of course, when people experience hardware issues while using Linux, they never blame the Linux OS they're using--they always recognize it as a hardware issue.

Well I think there is a difference between hardware support and hardware failure.

I think most of the complaints about linux and hardware is a hardware support issue. Like my problem with the SB Audigy, I cant get surround sound to work with Ubuntu. I know its not a problem with the hardware since it works in Windows.

I know thats not really a linux problem. Its a hardware manufacter not developing linux drivers problem.

So yeah, I think the complaints from both sides are different but are often misplaced. Most of the time, its a third party's fault and not the OS.

[Stormy Eyes]

Saw her pics on adultfriendfinder, she's kinda cute...

Sorry, I ain't dumb enough to fall for that one.

[xequence]

Actually, windows works on ppc. Think xbox.

Xbox uses a 700Mhz mobile celeron.

360 uses PPC, but they dont have a normal version of windows on it ether.

[Pete051]

I think the best comment I've seen on the windows/linux controversy is in this blog
http://memex.naughtons.org/archives/2005/08/21/2072

[tufkakf]

Xbox uses a 700Mhz mobile celeron.

360 uses PPC, but they dont have a normal version of windows on it ether.
Yep, I was refering to the 360 and of course it's not a normal version, but iirc it is some kind of version of windows after all.

[WildTangent]

Yep, I was refering to the 360 and of course it's not a normal version, but iirc it is some kind of version of windows after all.
Hmmm...how odd then that it still crashes...they don't call it that crashbox 360 for nothing.

Back on-topic, great post Aysiu, it speaks volumes of truth about most windows users. A couple of friends of mine used to have the "errors on windows are par for the course" attitude, and were quick to blame the problems I occassionally complained of on the fact that I use Ubuntu, but they're coming around slowly. They're both even using Ubuntu now, though one was forced into it because his Windows install died, and I had installed Ubuntu on a spare partition for him months ago. Other than a few minor problems, it's worked out great for both of them.

-Wild

[BSDFreak]

Actually, windows works on ppc. Think xbox.

the answeri no.


Nope, an idiot would and as should be glaringly obvious, especially after reading this thread, not all windows users are idiots, while on the other ends there are enough linux users that are. Quod erat demonstrandum.

Not all winows user are idiots bu this one surely is.

I' sorry but apart from being wron you have been wrong an wronger...

Go away.

[tufkakf]

the answeri no.

Nope, it isn't.


Not all winows user are idiots bu this one surely is.

I' sorry but apart from being wron you have been wrong an wronger...

Go away.
Then don't act as if all windows users are.
And sorry, I'm not going anywhere, even if this excites you to the point were you are starting to leak letters.

[TechSonic]

Nope, it isn't.


Then don't act as if all windows users are.
And sorry, I'm not going anywhere, even if this excites you to the point were you are starting to leak letters.



Dude, go twittle you're fettish over Windows some place else, before I beat you with my moms Win2k computer that locks up on shut down and doesn't when it's on Linux.

[tufkakf]

Dude, go twittle you're fettish over Windows some place else, before I beat you with my moms Win2k computer that locks up on shut down and doesn't when it's on Linux.
Dude, could you be a little more specific about what exactly consitutes my "fettish over Windows "?
Is it pointing out the unimportant, yet fun little fact that windows also runs on other architectures than i386?
Or is it pointing out that generally insulting Windows users is pretty stupid?

And just fyi, as I have stated several times already, I don't like Windows and I don't use it. But hey, don't let this get in your way of personally attacking me.

[Puptentacle]

Wow, you guys are FUN! :roll:

I haven't seen a BSOD on this machine while running XP in over a year at least. Why am I working towards a switch to Ubuntu? I just plainly HATE Windows for the problems I have had over the years. I HATE having to defrag. I HATE having to run AV and three different spyware apps to keep the machine going.

People use Windows for the same reason they eat at McDonalds. There are better alternatives, but they are used to it. So what if it isn't very good, and the service is slow? They have been eating it for years. Why change?

Also, there is an attitude that states nothing free can be any good. Ever hear the term "You get what you pay for"? Doesn't apply in this case, but you will be hard pressed to make a lot of people believe it.

[briancurtin]

Nope, it isn't.
install regular store bought windows on a regular store bought PPC machine

will that work? i dont believe so.

[tufkakf]

install regular store bought windows on a regular store bought PPC machine

will that work? i dont believe so.
*Sigh*
And once again, I did not claim it would. So?

[briancurtin]

who said you claimed it would? i asked a question, and gave my answer.

again, will that work? i dont think so. anyone can make anything work with anything if they want. MS made some version of windows work with PPC. good for them.

[tufkakf]

*Sigh*

[briancurtin]

you might as well add *drops shoulders, puts head down*

[tufkakf]

you might as well add *drops shoulders, puts head down*
Seriously man, what is your freaking problem?

All I did was point out that windows runs on ppc on the new xbox and I even labeled this as an unimportant, yet fun little fact. Is there anything in this that merits your stupid and childish personal attacks on me?

[mips]

I dunno what OS is used on the xbox but ms has wince working on PPC architecture(just one of many). They also had NT4 working on PPC, DEC Alpha, MIPS & IA64 but not all released to the public.

The xbox OS is an embedded OS and probably takes from various of their previous OS versions.

[briancurtin]

Seriously man, what is your freaking problem?

All I did was point out that windows runs on ppc on the new xbox and I even labeled this as an unimportant, yet fun little fact. Is there anything in this that merits your stupid and childish personal attacks on me?
are you kidding me?

[awakatanka]

You also can put in linux user instead of windows user, this topic could as ealsy count for a linux user as a windows user.


Some still come with arguements of blue screen of death, haven't see it seens windows 2k, and mostly it was because a 3th party prg/driver.

all OS's has good our bad things and its up to a user to learn something about that os.

[aysiu]

Some still come with arguements of blue screen of death, haven't see it seens windows 2k, and mostly it was because a 3th party prg/driver. I agree with this. Linux users often exaggerate the instability of Windows. I, for one, have never seen a blue screen of death on Windows XP or Windows 2000.

Windows ME... lots of blue screens, though.

[BSDFreak]

Actually, windows works on ppc. Think xbox.

I can install regular XP on the xbox?


Nope, an idiot would and as should be glaringly obvious, especially after reading this thread, not all windows users are idiots, while on the other ends there are enough linux users that are. Quod erat demonstrandum.

Nice, real nice.

You realize that "lack of hardware support" is one of the biggies that keeps Windows users away from Linux?

It's not a discussion of if that is the case, we KNOW that is the case, well, everyone but YOU knows that is the case.

As shown by your posts in this thread, you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.

[BSDFreak]

Sorry, I ain't dumb enough to fall for that one.

I realize that it may be percieved as rude, but the comment was made in jest with good intentions.

My apologies if you found it crude and insulting.

If i could find the link again my response would be entirely different though.

:D

[BSDFreak]

are you kidding me?

You got a lot of mod PM's too after this, didn't you?

This idiot seems to take everything that doesn't agree with what he says as a "personal attack".

Yet his *sigh*'s are fairly annoying especially since he's not on the bright end of the spectrum when it comes to intelligence.

He was like that before he was banned too.

[Stormy Eyes]

I agree with this. Linux users often exaggerate the instability of Windows. I, for one, have never seen a blue screen of death on Windows XP or Windows 2000.

I have. Some of 'em were my fault, and some were the hardware's fault, though.

[Stormy Eyes]

I realize that it may be percieved as rude, but the comment was made in jest with good intentions.

My apologies if you found it crude and insulting.

It's all right. My first reaction was to take offense, but that was because my inner child managed to get out of the padded cell again.

[tufkakf]

I can install regular XP on the xbox?

Nope. But please show me specifically where I claimed you could.


Nice, real nice.

You realize that "lack of hardware support" is one of the biggies that keeps Windows users away from Linux?

So, what exactly does this have to do with what I wrote? How about nothing at all?


It's not a discussion of if that is the case, we KNOW that is the case, well, everyone but YOU knows that is the case.

Again, it's amazing what you know about me, though I haven't even commented on this. I'm impressed...


As shown by your posts in this thread, you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Ah, personal insults. Always a good sign of a well thought out argument. Well done...

[BSDFreak]

It's all right. My first reaction was to take offense, but that was because my inner child managed to get out of the padded cell again.

LMAO.

Loving your posts man *flips hair*

[BSDFreak]

Nope. But please show me specifically where I claimed you could.

You said "Actually, windows works on ppc" - Game.


So, what exactly does this have to do with what I wrote? How about nothing at all?

You can't comprehend simple concepts and how they relate. - set


Again, it's amazing what you know about me, though I haven't even commented on this. I'm impressed...

Here is where you lost your ability to read alltogether apparently.


Ah, personal insults. Always a good sign of a well thought out argument. Well done...

As a kid runs to mommy, so you run to the mods. - Match

[Stormy Eyes]

LMAO.

Loving your posts man *flips hair*

By Lilith's heart-shaped ****, my inner child is utterly incorrigible. Do you know what it takes to get his attention? I have to use a 40mm grenade launcher and hit him right between the eyes.

[prizrak]

ROFL, I'm loving this thread it's hilarious *** **** :)
Stormy, :thumbs up:

[briancurtin]

You got a lot of mod PM's too after this, didn't you?

This idiot seems to take everything that doesn't agree with what he says as a "personal attack".

Yet his *sigh*'s are fairly annoying especially since he's not on the bright end of the spectrum when it comes to intelligence.

He was like that before he was banned too.
nah i didnt get anything. i like how i posted once, then reiterated the same point (that was clearly made in the first post), and he took it as if that was a sudden attack on him.

[manicka]

This is a warning message for users who are participating in this thread.

Please do not continue to flame and insult each other. It's prohibited and against the Forum Guidelines.

Continuation of this activity will result in this thread being locked and or other actions neccessary.

regards
manicka

[Stormy Eyes]

ROFL, I'm loving this thread it's hilarious *** **** :)
Stormy, :thumbs up:


The M-79 is just the beginning. Lectures alone aren't enough; I have to paddle him with the flat of a bastard sword to make it sink in, and then I have to put him back in his straitjacket (black leather, of course), and toss him head first back into his padded cell until he's ready to be a good boy and do his job instead of tempting me to do stupid **** like take offense for no good reason.

[aysiu]

Continuation of this activity will result in this thread being locked and or other actions neccessary. Why are we still locking threads? Can't we just dump the offending posts in the Jail or move the entire thread to the Backyard?

[Lord Illidan]

I can talk from experience. I am in a class of 10 A level computing students. Out of these, no one except me wants to use Linux. Why? Not because I am elite, but because I am willing to take the risk to partition my hard drive, and use and learn another OS.

The same thing occurs : If my multimedia player doesn't play wmas, oh it is because I am using Linux. (Now I fixed it, but they don't care). Recently, my friend told me that Linux sucks because he can't send me a wink in MSN, to which I replied that I couldn't care less.

The slightest thing doesn't work like in Windows - Linux sucks. That kind of mentality was driving me up the hill recently, until I solved it very simply. I just stopped talking to them about computers in general...

[tufkakf]

nah i didnt get anything. i like how i posted once, then reiterated the same point (that was clearly made in the first post), and he took it as if that was a sudden attack on him.
So, what else was it supposed to be?
Or are you always trying to annoy people by repeating yourself over and over and consider this a normal behavior?

[tufkakf]

You said "Actually, windows works on ppc" - Game.

And it does. Your point again?


You can't comprehend simple concepts and how they relate. - set

Nope. You are unable to make arguments that make sense and actually take into acount what someone you answer said. Sad, I know, but true nontheless.


Here is where you lost your ability to read alltogether apparently.

Is this your normal way of talking to people?
As I sure get the impression that it is, I can understand why you spend your days online.


As a kid runs to mommy, so you run to the mods. - Match
You would feel much more comfortable if I also resorted to stupid namecalling wouldn't you?
But then again, why should I sink to your level?

[manicka]

Why are we still locking threads? Can't we just dump the offending posts in the Jail or move the entire thread to the Backyard?

Yes, that would be the 'other actions neccessary'

Let's hope it doesn't get to that :)

[KiwiNZ]

This thread has out lived its usefulness.