Is ubuntu getting worse?

[ajaygautam]

Is it just me, or is ubuntu actually getting worse?

When I installed Ubuntu a few years ago, things were fine, and I was happy. But, with every new upgrade, things get worse. Bugs are introduced, old bugs are not fixed...

Some examples:

When I upgraded to 9.04, VNC stopped working! It wasn't critical, and I don't have the time anymore, so I let it pass. But now, I discover that my drives no longer have DMA! DVD playback is choppy. Hard disk is slow. And today, I discover bug reports filed many months ago about this issue... Bugs in the base system! come on guys..

Every time I start the computer, I get indexing-is-busted error message! I just don't want to click of re-index-all button, because I know it will slow down the system, and *will* be busted the next time I re-start anyway!

Java sucks resources! - My son used to be able to play some java based internet games (rune?) - but no more! Browser starts, the website loads, a java process comsumes 100% - and thats it. We *have* to restart the system - no choice.

Every update, there is something new and worse to deal with!

The graphics have gotten worse too (or maybe thats just me sitting much more in front of my iMac).

And what's up with the release names? Is ubuntu for humans? or is it for scientists? - Does anyone outside the scientific community really care about the moons of planets? Come on guys! Can't you just select easier names? (example: Tiger, Leopard)

I no longer have the energy or desire to fight with operating systems - is there a plan to get ubuntu back on track? Or should I just accept defeat, and switch back to Windows?

PS: No, I am *not* a newbie, just REALLY REALLY pissed off at the general state of Linux desktops. I have been using linux for over 15 years now. I have tried almost every major distro out there! I used to maintain Gentoo systems. I am just sick and tired of fighting to get basic services like decent dvd playback working...

Ajay

[kalmahlk]

Jaunty does seem like a bad release, but if you must have absolute stability use Hardy Heron. Or better yet just use Leopard on your iMac!

[Cheesemill]

And what's up with the release names? Is ubuntu for humans? or is it for scientists? - Does anyone outside the scientific community really care about the moons of planets? Come on guys! Can't you just select easier names? (example: Tiger, Leopard)

Ubuntu releases are named after animals, I've no idea where you got moons from:confused:


Do you have an integrated Intel graphics chipset by any chance?
If you do the problems with this are described in the 9.04 release notes. These should always be read before an upgrade.

[pbpersson]

Ubuntu releases are named after animals, I've no idea where you got moons from:confused:

That confused me as well. Ubuntu release names are fun

Giggly Gopher
Hilarious Hyena
Kinky Kangaroo
Leaping Lizards

How does that relate to moons? :confused:

[pbpersson]

I no longer have the energy or desire to fight with operating systems - is there a plan to get ubuntu back on track? Or should I just accept defeat, and switch back to Windows?

PS: No, I am *not* a newbie, just REALLY REALLY pissed off at the general state of Linux desktops. I have been using linux for over 15 years now. I have tried almost every major distro out there!

So.....reading between the lines here.....are you saying these packages are broken on ALL distros and it is not just a problem in Ubuntu?

Or are you saying you could fix all your problems by moving to a different distro? If that is true, why would you talk about going back to Windows?

[pbpersson]

Jaunty does seem like a bad release,

Okay, 80% of the reviews I read said it was the best release ever!

Talk about getting mixed signals..... :confused:

[kalmahlk]

Okay, 80% of the reviews I read said it was the best release ever!

Talk about getting mixed signals..... :confused:

It's the worst Ubuntu I've used. I am seriously considering backing everything up and returning too Hardy.

[Cheesemill]

Ajay, looking back at your previous posts you haven't even attempted to solve your VLC, Java, or indexing problems. I'm sure if you opened threads for these problems then someone would have some suggestions for you.

BTW, for me Jaunty is the best release so far, zero problems.

[LoneWolfJack]

I'm running ibex, which works fine on my machine... had many issues with hardy so I skipped that release. Looks like some releases are better for some... which of course is an odd thing by itself.

Fedora seems to do a bit better in this regard, but you have to do more fiddling.

Ubuntu release names are fun... unless they're missing the y at the end of the first word.

I, too, see some sort of "degrading" with ubuntu based mainly on the fact that MS decided to push through a "fix" of some perfectly working aspect of ubuntu and turned the updated notifier into a mess.

Let's see if Koala does better. :)

[sedawk]

I always recommend to stay with a working version (currently 8.04) if
there is no major fault or problem with the running version.
E.g. my office PC runs 8.04, my internet PC at home 8.10 and
only some non-vital systems have been upgraded to 9.04.
Even a working LiveCD is no proof that your graphics card will
properly work (video playback, 3D) after upgrading!

I understand your anger (e.g my WLAN cards stopping working
for months) but all of your problems seem fixable.
(I turned of the tracker myself (some gnome app to turn on/off "startup"
apps).)

[snek]

I agree on this one, I've had the least amount of problems on Jaunty compared to previous releases.

There's one very vital thing though: I format before every upgrade and do a fresh install. Then I move some files back from backups I make of /home /boot and /etc.

Just like any OS you really should refrain from running upgrades and just go for a fresh installation.

[skyjacker]

BTW, for me Jaunty is the best release so far, zero problems.+1 for me . Have had zero problems since doing a CLEAN install last month.

[SteveBurt]

Snek wrote:
Just like any OS you really should refrain from running upgrades and just go for a fresh installation.
----------------------
Actually, on any half decent OS an upgrade is a much better idea, because you can back it out if it goes wrong.
And all software upgrades and changes are tracked with an audit trail.

Anyone who has worked on Solaris, AIX or other 'professional' versions of Unix will find the way upgrades are handled pretty poor in Linux.
You should never need to do a clean install.
If you do, it's a sign there's something wrong with the upgrade process.

[hibliss]

I have two machines running Jaunty, my desktop, which was an upgrade install from Intrepid, and my Eee which was a clean install of Eeebuntu.

Zero issues for me, except they did not fix the VPN issue and I still have to use a workaround (but it was the same in Intrepid).

I wish they would include Pulseaudio 0.9.15, and maybe some out of the box stereo bluetooth support.

[RJ12]

BTW, for me Jaunty is the best release so far, zero problems.

I agree also for me when Jaunty came out my Wireless card worked perfectly. This is actually gonna be the second week I use jaunty on a real PC because after comparing 8.04 and 8.10 and 9.04 using it in a virtual machine and using Wubi. Out of all the releases Ive tried 9.04 is best

[ELD]

I had a few issues when it was new but like everything it matures over time, Jaunty is now very stable (i had issues with it constantly hard freezing but after updates it's fine now).

A lot of versions add major changes (pulse audio) which are included early and so are buggy, but after time they become much needed assets which more and more people use great.

[Grenage]

I found x32 9.04 to simply not work at all on my machine. x64 works a treat, and I've yet to experience an issue. That said, there will be issues on this kind of system. Many difference packages from many difference sources are being used.

If you installed Vista and found that the latest release of VNC didn't work, who would you blame?

[RJ12]

I had a few issues when it was new but like everything it matures over time, Jaunty is now very stable (i had issues with it constantly hard freezing but after updates it's fine now).

A lot of versions add major changes (pulse audio) which are included early and so are buggy, but after time they become much needed assets which more and more people use great.

I agree with you ELD I think 9.04 is very stable now

P.S. I love your picture where did you get it?

[ELD]

I agree with you ELD I think 9.04 is very stable now

P.S. I love your picture where did you get it?

Pinched it from someone over at the Spring RTS forums if i remember correctly hehe ;)

[Celauran]

Is it just me, or is ubuntu actually getting worse?
The last release I had zero problems with was 7.04, so I'd agree things seem to be trending downhill. By the same token, most of these aren't deal breakers (for me, at any rate) and can generally be resolved. I've only one remaining unresolved bug from 8.04, so all told it's not so bad.

I no longer have the energy or desire to fight with operating systems - is there a plan to get ubuntu back on track? Or should I just accept defeat, and switch back to Windows?

There are plenty of other distributions out there you can try. If you're frustrated now, I suspect things will only be exacerbated by installing Windows.

[DeMus]

I started with Hardy and loved it. Everything I needed worked, including updates. When Intrepid came and I read here in the forums about many people who complained I decided to stick with Hardy, since my computer runs 24/7 for Boinc so I can not risk it to stand still.
Then Jaunty came and I thought I back up my data and give it a try. It worked, except for one thing: I received computation errors (now and then - happily) on my Boinc program. I have updated the kernel 3 times and now running 2.6.30 things seem to have cleared that last obstacle. For a few days I did not get a computation error again. But maybe it is too early to tell.
I did a fresh install because I believe, no matter how good the updater is, a clean fresh install is always better. No remainders of the old system, only the new software. I copied back my data and started enjoying Jaunty.
I have no idea what it was like before Hardy, I did not use those OS's. But Hardy and, now with the latest kernel, also Jaunty: They Rock.

[3Miro]

Is it just me, or is ubuntu actually getting worse?

When I installed Ubuntu a few years ago, things were fine, and I was happy. But, with every new upgrade, things get worse. Bugs are introduced, old bugs are not fixed...

Some examples:

When I upgraded to 9.04, VNC stopped working! It wasn't critical, and I don't have the time anymore, so I let it pass. But now, I discover that my drives no longer have DMA! DVD playback is choppy. Hard disk is slow. And today, I discover bug reports filed many months ago about this issue... Bugs in the base system! come on guys..

Every time I start the computer, I get indexing-is-busted error message! I just don't want to click of re-index-all button, because I know it will slow down the system, and *will* be busted the next time I re-start anyway!

Java sucks resources! - My son used to be able to play some java based internet games (rune?) - but no more! Browser starts, the website loads, a java process comsumes 100% - and thats it. We *have* to restart the system - no choice.

Every update, there is something new and worse to deal with!

The graphics have gotten worse too (or maybe thats just me sitting much more in front of my iMac).

And what's up with the release names? Is ubuntu for humans? or is it for scientists? - Does anyone outside the scientific community really care about the moons of planets? Come on guys! Can't you just select easier names? (example: Tiger, Leopard)

I no longer have the energy or desire to fight with operating systems - is there a plan to get ubuntu back on track? Or should I just accept defeat, and switch back to Windows?

PS: No, I am *not* a newbie, just REALLY REALLY pissed off at the general state of Linux desktops. I have been using linux for over 15 years now. I have tried almost every major distro out there! I used to maintain Gentoo systems. I am just sick and tired of fighting to get basic services like decent dvd playback working...

Ajay

The indexing and slow video issues sound like a broken HDD to me. Are you sure this is not the case, how old is the computer?

Can you give a link to the java game. I want to try and see if it runs on my machine. It could be some simple setting issue.

(I don't understand the stars and moons comment, and also many people outside the scientific community care about those)

[harecanada]

I don't understand the complaining about Ubuntu? Linux gave me the freedom to be part of the developing of the O/S. I get to solve problems , pose solutions and have fun learning from people all over the world. Everyday I get on here and find new and interesting topics to be part of or just enjoy tweaking my system. And best of all... If I hose my system and have to start all over ...ITS FREE and I can choose any distro I want!!!! All I got from Windows was problems and orders on what I have to do and what I wasn't aloud to do and worst of all was the visits to the repair shop and the money down the drain. I have never had so much fun learning and creating. Complainers should pay the money and go back to Windoze and put up with the endless hassels. Linux is never going to be complete. It is always going to be evolving and letting us go along for the ride. YEEEHHAAAWWW!! I would rather be creating with Linux than stagnating with Windows.
harecanada

[Spencer Caplan]

I just switched from Windows XP to Ubuntu 9.04 Jaunty so I guess that I have no frame of reference to compare Jaunty to older versions of Ubuntu. But with that said I have found it infinitely better than Windows and I have had no issues. There is nothing to complain about.

[pizza-is-good]

BTW, for me Jaunty is the best release so far, zero problems.

Same here. I started with 8.10, and that worked out of the box. Jaunty only made things better. Faster boot, lot nicer pop-up messages, and a much 'smoother' interface.
Can't wait for Karmic.:guitar:


I as well did not get the referece to moons and stars.:confused:

[Chemical Imbalance]

And what's up with the release names? Is ubuntu for humans? or is it for scientists? - Does anyone outside the scientific community really care about the moons of planets? Come on guys! Can't you just select easier names? (example: Tiger, Leopard)


What on earth are you talking about?

[oxf]

I used Hardy for a while and liked it a lot. It got me used to Ubuntu and I liked it. Shortly after I installed it Intrepid was released but I skippped it. I waited until mid June before doing a clean install of Jaunty on both my Desktop and Laptop. I feel very very pleased with the system I now have and its working slicker than a ...... Seriously no complaints whatsoever with 9.04!

[ajaygautam]

The complaining is with the intention of making it better.

harecanada: I do understand all the points you make. Yes, I get all the freedom I ever wanted, and more. But, at what cost?

The cost I am referring to here, is time. I could spend time and debug why my ubuntu system can't play DVDs. OR, I could spend the same time reading a book to my child, I could spend the same time playing baseball with my son, teach him how to catch a ball, take him on a car ride around the block. Each new issue and debugging effort takes my time away from my family.

Linux is great for learning, but after 15 years of linux, I am done learning. I want a system that just works!

Perhaps I am more frustrated after using my Apple laptop and desktop. Things actually do work as they should. Updates usually don't break existing functionality. Yes, I paid the Apple premium, but the amount of time I save makes the few $$ spent VERY trivial.

In the end, everything in life boils down to time vs. money. Either you spend time, or you spend money!

[philinux]

Advice is stick with a LTS version.

[ajaygautam]

What on earth are you talking about?

Sorry, I confused the ubuntu release names with eclipse release names.

[Chemical Imbalance]

Sorry, I confused the ubuntu release names with eclipse release names.

You had me seriously confused for a second. ;)

[ajaygautam]

I used Hardy for a while and liked it a lot. It got me used to Ubuntu and I liked it. Shortly after I installed it Intrepid was released but I skippped it. I waited until mid June before doing a clean install of Jaunty on both my Desktop and Laptop. I feel very very pleased with the system I now have and its working slicker than a ...... Seriously no complaints whatsoever with 9.04!

That seems to be the general consensus... the best way to upgrade to a new version is to do a fresh install. But then you loose all the customization, and packages you installed to make the system use-able...

Perhaps I will do a clean install with the next version, and freeze the system (no upgrades) to that version...

[jocampo]

Every time I start the computer, I get indexing-is-busted error message


did you really troubleshoot that? why you say is Ubuntu ...


Every update, there is something new and worse to deal with!


Personal and bias opinion. I moved from Hardy to Jaunty and my Dell Inspiron works even better. The hibernate issue I had was fixed and with the new ext4 boots faster now


Is ubuntu for humans? or is it for scientists? - Does anyone outside the scientific community really care about the moons of planets? Come on guys!

You said you are not a newbie...but you're using Ubuntu and you don't even know the name for each release comes from animals? C'mon my friend, go to a book store and spend 20 bucks in an Ubuntu book.


I no longer have the energy or desire to fight with operating systems - is there a plan to get ubuntu back on track? Or should I just accept defeat, and switch back to Windows?


It's up to you. I use Windows as work and I am not a newbie on Windows; I work as a dba for an important company here...yeah, MS-SQL dba. Windows Server, XP, Vista, etc, has some cons. If you are willing to deal and live with those, up to you. Only reason I'm not using Linux at work is because MS-SQL is a Microsoft product but we use Oracle also and rocks when running on top of Linux/Unix.

My friend...do not talk for others. Maybe your hardware does not work properly with Ubuntu but that does not mean is the rule for thousand and thousand of people out there.

By the way...in place upgrades are never good. That's true for Oracle, MS-SQL, Windows, Linux, etc. If you can backup your data and restore so you can do a fresh install...is the way to go. I personally believe in place upgrades are for big companies who can not spend time and money doing fresh installations.

[pizza-is-good]

The complaining is with the intention of making it better.

harecanada: I do understand all the points you make. Yes, I get all the freedom I ever wanted, and more. But, at what cost?

The cost I am referring to here, is time. I could spend time and debug why my ubuntu system can't play DVDs. OR, I could spend the same time reading a book to my child, I could spend the same time playing baseball with my son, teach him how to catch a ball, take him on a car ride around the block. Each new issue and debugging effort takes my time away from my family.

Linux is great for learning, but after 15 years of linux, I am done learning. I want a system that just works!

Perhaps I am more frustrated after using my Apple laptop and desktop. Things actually do work as they should. Updates usually don't break existing functionality. Yes, I paid the Apple premium, but the amount of time I save makes the few $$ spent VERY trivial.

In the end, everything in life boils down to time vs. money. Either you spend time, or you spend money!

The cost is free. If it is time you are worried about, just post a thread here with your problem, and you'll have a solution quickly, all you'll have to do then is do as you are told. Usually 10 min is all you need to do as told.

I have had a lot of problems that I thought were major after just switching from vista, but I asked for help, and to advanced users the problem was so trivial that with less than a line of commands, I solved.

I actually think that having bugs and other issues in a computer helps to understand the computer and gives you more knowledge on how to solve the next problem.

Those major problems to me have now become trivial, and I now help others with those same problems.
The chain goes on.
Others are willing to spend time solving your and mine problems, because someone helped time solving theirs when they got started.
You only have to spend as little or as much time as you want.

[oxf]

That seems to be the general consensus... the best way to upgrade to a new version is to do a fresh install. But then you loose all the customization, and packages you installed to make the system use-able...

Perhaps I will do a clean install with the next version, and freeze the system (no upgrades) to that version...

That may be well be true. However, speaking personally I'd rather spend the little bit of extra time of adding my customizations and packages and be confident I have a clean and happy system. For me its piece of cake compared to installing windows. Just my preference

[bboston7]

You said you've been using linux for 15 years but you still have problems that are too time consuming? Are you sure you have been learning and not just copying and pasting everyt piece of advice?

Time really shouldn't be an issue.

Have fun supporting an operating that sprung out of FreeBSD but doesn't give anything back to the community. Hell, you can't even play vorbis and FLAC encoded songs in itunes.

[Arand]

[...] Linux is great for learning, but after 15 years of linux, I am done learning. I want a system that just works!
[...]
In the end, everything in life boils down to time vs. money. Either you spend time, or you spend money!

On your terms, I agree with you.

From my observance, the "ubuntu experience" depends soo much on how well your specific hardware dances along with it.
And if they don't, you need to learn, you need to look for help from the community, you need to make it work yourself.

I'd go as far as to say that:
ubuntu is linux for human beings (if you have the right hardware).

Of course windows and/or machintosh is an easy choice in that way, since in effect all hardware you have on a win/mac system will be, obviously, compatible.

However, your statement that ubuntu and/or the linux desktop is degrading I do not agree with, my general feel is that ubuntu is getting better with each release, and that the few bugs that are introduced are compensated by a ton of fixes and improved features, not to mention better hardware support, which is key in making ubuntu more accessible (making it "for human beings" without the fine print)

But of course, if these few (my opinion) new bugs are hitting you, your hardware just doesn't do ubuntu, and if getting involved in the community to try to help in fixing these issues would steal too much time from life (be it friends, family, or other); then:
ubuntu is not for you.

- Arand

[mCion]

I dont think it's getting worse, but better. (of course that is very subjective and depending on your hardware)

BUT!!!!!, ajaygautam has a point. It is time consuming to fix bugs/install packages, look in forums, etc etc etc etc just to get normal computer functions working. It has gotten better for me, but it still is very time consuming.

ajaygautam, if you switch, cool. Thanks for using linux and helping the community. IE=kids better than any OS :)

[Arup]

What a broad generalization full of conjectures. Linux desktop has come a long way and today's desktop Linux like Ubuntu, PCLOS, Sabayon, Fedora, SuSE and others make it a far better experience. As for playing DVDs, its easy as pie in today's Linux. Distrols like MINT already come with everything installed. I have had no issues with Java from version 1.6.0_14 onward. I run Jdownload and other Java apps with absolutely no issue. Lastly your assertion on Ubuntu using strange names, well I guess they should follow Mac convention and name it like the way they do, NOT. Although they do sound zany, it gives Ubuntu a different sound than others so at least its not emulation.

[lswb]

I've been using ubuntu since 5.10 breezy badger and it has been true for me that every release since 6.06 has brought some regressions as well as improvements. 8.04 as a LTS was dissappointing to me because of the pulseaudio problems and Network Manager not really being ready for many common networking situations. I found 8.10 to be almost unuseable on my laptop because of freezes and crashes.

When I tried 9.04, I was impressed by the improvement in many areas, including some hardware working again that had been unuseable since 6.06. But the intel graphics problems with video playback were a killer. After much searching and googling I followed a howto on this forum and was able to get acceptable performance, and have gradually stopped using 8.04. But it was very time consuming, and many new users would not put up with the trouble.

I'm hoping 9.10 will have everything working out of the box. (We can dream, right?) 8.04, 8.10 and 9.04 all have too much of a "kit" feel as opposed to a finished product.

[starcannon]

Linux is never going to be complete. It is always going to be evolving and letting us go along for the ride. YEEEHHAAAWWW!! I would rather be creating with Linux than stagnating with Windows.
harecanada

On the notion of "complete", what qualifies an OS as being complete? If by complete one means all the work is done, there is nothing more to do, then no, Linux is never going to be complete.

This is true of all OS's; yes, even MS Windows, and OSX. The difference is that with Linux, if you choose, you can be a part of the evolution; and even if all you ever do is use Linux, you still get the fun of a front row seat if you choose to run bleeding edge releases of kernels, software, or distro's.

Or, if one takes the view that "complete" when discussing an OS, means that all of the tools required to make the OS fully productive for 80% or more of the users, then again, all 3 operating systems fall into this category; yep, even Linux is ready to be called complete.

Concerning the complaining that one sees in these boards, and countless others across the internet; first remember, those who are unhappy make the loudest most irratating noises. It is in our dna to do so, even as babies we wail for food, or wail for affection, etc..., babies don't coo, or laugh to get fed; and, generally neither do adults. These loud cries of OS based sufferings happen in forums for Linux, Windows, and OSX; all 3 OS forums suffer the abuse, I have noticed though that in the various request for help forums here on UF, we help even when people are being obnoxious, thats as it should be, though occasionally someone must be reigned in a bit, mostly they cool out once they realize they are about to be spoon fed the solution.

As far as whats going on in CC or T&E, in CC there are granted, a few trolls; they'll say black simply because someone else said white. In T&E there are a lot of going down in flames and lashing out at everyone they can as a last hurrah on their way to where ever they are going next. Neither forum imo should be taken too seriously; they are here serving their purpose, and working pretty good at that.

Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweatty stuff.

GL and HF
Starcannon

[XubuRoxMySox]

I haven't been using Ubuntu for long enough to gauge this myself. I just started in March with Intrepid and now Jaunty. My experience on this old Dell Dimension has been almost completely trouble free with both.

But from others with longer experience I gather that it depends very much on what equipment you are using. Ubuntu worked flawlessly on my Dell and my HP all-in-one appliance right out of the box (and that was before I added restricted extras and codecs and whatnot).

That said, however, I wonder if the rush to get the next version released on a strict schedule might be the cause of some of these issues (on other people's equipment, lol). I'd like to see a more "It'll be ready when it's ready" approach so that bugs found in Alpha and Beta can be fully addressed and fixed before a release with "known issues" in the release notes.

If it's super-stability you're after, stick with the long-term releases.

-Robin

[ELD]

dixiedancer (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=809532) has hit the nail on the head it does depends on your hardware, BUT that is only as a result of hardware manufacturers not properly supporting Linux (which will change the more people use it and need it, after all companies want/need money and will support what really does get them it).

For me Jaunty was a failure due to unexplainable hard freezes on both Ubuntu and Kubuntu, Kubuntu not so much, i am awaiting Karmic to see if it has changed (which i bloody hope so or i will have to jump ship :().

[fidelandche]

Hi,

I have only been using Jaunty for the last two months. I did a complete removal of Vista and have never looked back. I am so impressed that I installed it on my son's and partners laptops and informed people at work who have now moved over to Jaunty as their only OS (so since I came across it, I have introduced six more people to the Ubuntu experience!!!!).

I can not compare it to the other releases but for me I have had a few problems (mainly on my partners laptop!! better spec than mine!!) these have been fixed by coming on to this forum and the friendly people on here have helped. So I would say stick with it.

[mdsmedia]

I'll come at this from a slightly different perspective to everyone here. Yes, slightly different to everyone, because everyone has a slightly different hardware configuration and everyone has slightly different hardware and software requirements.

I've used Ubuntu since 5.04....Hoary....and I haven't used every version since then. I've upgraded and I've clean installed. I've used Ubuntu on 3 of my own systems and 1 of my friend's. I've used the LiveCD on another friend's.

I installed Hoary as my first real adventure with Linux, in October 2005. I ran the LiveCD because my 6 month old HP notebook, running XP, was running like a dog. The first thing I did after booting was to run xchat and chat with friends in IRC. I surprise myself now by recounting one of the first things I said. "It runs so fast". I was running the LiveCD at the time!! I ran it for about 3 hours before I decided to install Ubuntu as a dual-boot with XP. I was so impressed with Ubuntu that it became my OS of choice immediately.

I didn't install 5.10. I eventually upgraded to 6.06 (Dapper...LTS). I didn't even know what LTS meant. I ran Dapper until I was offered an upgrade to 8.04 through the update system. I decided to do so. It was smooth as silk. My computer had a new lease on life.

My desktop, running XP, had become a play machine. My notebook had become the production machine and my desktop was there only because it arrived before the notebook. It was a spare system. I decided to install 9.04 Alpha, and see what it looked like. As I recall I'd upgraded it through a couple of versions before 9.04. I continued to upgrade it to the release version and was comfortable enough with it to install 9.04 on my notebook shortly after its release. I'd never done that before, with Ubuntu.

I've now got a new Toshiba notebook, running 9.04, a HP desktop running 9.04....actually, I lie....it's now got Arch on it, but it ran 9.04, a HP notebook running 9.04, and I don't have a problem with any of them. There have been minor problems, but nothing that couldn't be fixed. I'm more than happy with Jaunty. I'm about to install it on a friend's computer, and she's VERY MUCH a newb.

[Copernicus1234]

The best part of this post is mistaking animals for planets.

And sorry, but yes you are a newb if you cant get video playback to work in Ubuntu these days. 15 years of experience? Apparently you didnt learn much. :)

[Chame_Wizard]

We always have Debian.:guitar:

[mybunche]

I don't use every release. I started with Ubuntu 6.10 soon after it was released and after 20 months ended up using it as my main OS.
Even back then people were saying how buggy it was etc, but I never ever had a problem with 6.10, it was 100% stable and trouble free, an amazing experience.

Then I installed Ubuntu 8.04 and that was a huge leap in useability over 6.10. And again, been using 8.04 for about a year, and it's brilliant. So for me it is getting better.

And I just bought a netbook Dell's Latitude 2100 with Ubuntu 9.04 pre-installed, and it's great. Yes it's getting better.

They have problems and regressions though, but is is moving overall in the right direction, I just wish it was faster. :)

[kerryhall]

I think Ubuntu is getting worse.

If it's a hardware issue, why does everything work one release, then get worse on the next release? That doesn't make any sense, because once you get things figured out for one set of hardware, it should be fine for all future versions of Ubuntu!

I have been noticing that the quality of Ubuntu is getting worse and worse. Network managers refusing to function, wifi drviers that used to work are no longer working, apps using more and more resources, etc.

Not sure if it's an Ubuntu issue or a Debian issue or what. Once I'm done with school in a few months I'm going to do documented fresh installs with a variety of Ubuntu versions on a few different sets of hardware and see how things function. Then start filing bug reports. Probably the best I can do to help the development of Ubuntu and other free software.

[jwbrase]

I think Ubuntu is getting worse.

If it's a hardware issue, why does everything work one release, then get worse on the next release? That doesn't make any sense, because once you get things figured out for one set of hardware, it should be fine for all future versions of Ubuntu!

Unfortunately, not true. New versions use new kernels, and drivers need to be recompiled for new kernels. It just so happens that the first computer I ever installed Linux on had a video card that ATI stopped writing Linux drivers for. So it worked fine with the kernel version in Intrepid (seeing as it had Graphics drivers written by ATI for that kernel version), but in Jaunty I ran into huge problems with GNOME, either because it was trying to use the old kernel's drivers with the new kernel, or because it had no option but to fall back from the proprietary to the open drivers (interestingly enough, it still worked well with LXDE). Even on Windows, though, the drivers for that card don't handle OpenGL properly.


I have been noticing that the quality of Ubuntu is getting worse and worse. Network managers refusing to function, wifi drviers that used to work are no longer working, apps using more and more resources, etc.

I can't comment on the first two, but on the third, I'd say that it's pretty much a given on any system. Apps use more resources because everybody always wants more features, and the latest models of computers have more and more resources available to throw at features every year. When that trend stops, you'll probably see more emphasis on apps that don't guzzle resources.


Not sure if it's an Ubuntu issue or a Debian issue or what. Once I'm done with school in a few months I'm going to do documented fresh installs with a variety of Ubuntu versions on a few different sets of hardware and see how things function. Then start filing bug reports. Probably the best I can do to help the development of Ubuntu and other free software.

Yes, though I will say that with both Ubuntu and Windows, I've found that OEM installs are generally more stable (both to begin with and in the long haul) than user installs.

[Nightstrike2009]

I'd stick to x.04 releases the x.10 ones are just downright painfull and usually very buggy. The x.04 releases seem far more stable IMO.

By tgm4883: Now 10.04 I could see being more stable that 10.10. And 12.04 more stable than 12.10. But those are LTS releases, and you didn't distinguish that in your statement.

I thought the LTS (Long Term Support) versions were well known for being far more stable generally hence I didn't mention them, also:

By Myself: The x.04 releases seem far more stable IMO.

I did end that statement with In My Opinion (IMO), I don't mean to sound offensive or harsh but just stating my opinion on this. :-)

[tgm4883]

I'd stick to x.04 releases the x.10 ones are just downright painfull and usually very buggy. The x.04 releases seem far more stable IMO.

I see no reason why 11.04 would be any more stable that 11.10, in fact I would expect the opposite.

Now 10.04 I could see being more stable that 10.10. And 12.04 more stable than 12.10. But those are LTS releases, and you didn't distinguish that in your statement.

[handy]

My understanding is that each of the Ubuntu release between LTS releases are a part of the process of creating the next LTS. So you can expect them to be more troublesome. Many users just use the LTS releases.

[owlkohaulic]

i am new here but after my first day on Ubuntu 10.10 i have not had any issues with it.
i guess it depends on what your trying to do with it.
i am very happy with it so far.
just keep in mind that it is a free operating system :D

[beew]

Actually 10.10 is perfect, it works better than 10.04 on all the machines I have tried (about 5 of them) It is faster, smoother, the software is newer (of course), multimedia works better (I mean quite noticeable ) and more hardware works out of the box.

I think every time there is a new release some people are bound to have problems especially if they use really old hardware (though the machines I tested on are not very new either save my working installation, others are 6-7 years old) This is just the way it is. Try installing Windows 7 or Vista on those older machines, they won't even install or Vista would kill them right the way because of the bloat.

While I feel for people who are experiencing problems upgrading from 10.04 to 10.10 but the statement "Ubuntu is getting worse" is an unwarranted generalization.

[handy]

With the distros it still comes down to the luck of the draw re. hardware combo's. There are so many alternatives & versions of chip combo's that it is amazing that so many people have faultless experiences.

It surely has improved dramatically over the last 5 or so years in my experience. A Ubuntu regression with Edgy forced me to start looking at other distros.

For which I'm now grateful. ;)

[kerryhall]

Let me see if I have this right.

Kernel gets code rewritten. Drivers that used to work no longer work. Kernel can't be backwards compatible with old drivers because that would defeat the purpose of rewriting the kernel in the first place.

Is that right? So as long as the kernel is worked on, hardware drivers will continue to break and drivers must constantly be rewritten? What is being worked on in the kernel that will break the old drivers?

This is a frustrating revelation. On one hand, I would like to have the latest and greatest kernel, on the other hand, I don't want my drivers to break, EVER. Plus it seems like a waste, having to have driver be rewritten over and over and over.

[uRock]

Let me see if I have this right.

Kernel gets code rewritten. Drivers that used to work no longer work. Kernel can't be backwards compatible with old drivers because that would defeat the purpose of rewriting the kernel in the first place.

Is that right? So as long as the kernel is worked on, hardware drivers will continue to break and drivers must constantly be rewritten? What is being worked on in the kernel that will break the old drivers?

This is a frustrating revelation. On one hand, I would like to have the latest and greatest kernel, on the other hand, I don't want my drivers to break, EVER. Plus it seems like a waste, having to have driver be rewritten over and over and over.
The kernels have to be rewritten for newer "in demand" hardware and the new code conflicts with the old hardware's drivers.

Just like vehicles, technology must move forward or people will stop shopping. Then the market crashes for good.

[mmsmc]

urock is right, the rule for technology is that newer tech will always come out the next day, and may not be compatible with older tech


in my belief, the most compatible technology in human history are rock and stick tools

[kerryhall]

The kernels have to be rewritten for newer "in demand" hardware and the new code conflicts with the old hardware's drivers.

Just like vehicles, technology must move forward or people will stop shopping. Then the market crashes for good.

What do you mean exactly by "the new code conflicts with the old hardware's drivers" ?

Do you mean that when the kernel gets updated, keeping support for older drivers would slow down or bloat the kernel? Naively, I would assume that functionality can just keep being added to the kernel, so that it just gets more and more support as time goes on. Why isn't this the case?

[beew]

I am actually really impressed with Ubuntu. I have a Maverick install in an external hard drive as a portable and for testing hardware that I can lay my hands on. I have tried 4 or 5 machines with different specs and everything works out of the box (of course can't test everything, but main items like graphic cards and wireless all work)

Today my roommate's hp netbook has a massive viral infection (Vista) and she gave it to me to fix. I booted into my Maverick to do a virus scan. Again the thing works out of the box and a hell lot faster than the native install of Vista.

What is most interesting is that the netbook has a broadcom wireless card and an ATI graphic card (I have not had access to computers with ATI cards so far, all are either Intel or Nvidia) The open source raedon driver works out of the box with full Compiz running, video quality is great (better than the nouveau driver I have tested on Nvidia machines) The only small wrinkle is Cairo-Dock with openGL doesn't quite work so I had to use the version without OpenGL. The broadcom wireless card needed to be installed, but Jockey/Additional Driver handled it automatically with a click. Tried Skype and it worked flawlessly.

The netbook is about 4-5 years old.

This gives a new meaning to "plug and play" :), there is no way you can do it with Mac or Windows.

P.S. Even Natty alpha works on it, though haven't tested it as throughly as I don't have many software installed in the Natty partition. Have to say that Unity does look good on that netbook even though I don't like it very much on Desktops and laptops.

[fudoki]

Jaunty does seem like a bad release, but if you must have absolute stability use Hardy Heron. Or better yet just use Leopard on your iMac!

So true, and so sad. Three years ago I gave up on Ubuntu and switched back to Debian; which had totally spoiled me with the flawless stability. I'm a metrologist, so the complexity at times doesn't bother me.

But my "big machine" is so new, with so much "gee whiz" stuff (that I actually need) that running Debian Unstable isn't fun, so I have been running Ubuntu, and updating as possible.

Every update, Nvidia support is fouled up, or non-existent. This is IMHO as a programmer for over 30 years and engineer, unforgivable. This is basic stuff, basic functionality. If the display is broke, the distro is broke. Period.

So many of these new features are "too clever by half", if they actually worked! What's strange is that most of these new OMG that's so cool features REQUIRE a high end graphics adapter and hot machine. See comment #1...

This is the reason Debian has formed the "Canterbury Distribution" project. You cannot compete is your OS does not deliver the basic functionality. Keeping to a bi-annual upgrade schedule means nothing if the upgrades don't work right.

I am having to boot my machine with a Knoppix disk, delete "/boot/grub/grubenv" manually, and restart or else my machine won't boot since I "upgraded" from 10.10 to 11.04.

I can't complete the "upgrade" because it wants to DELETE my video drivers. Only because this issue has come up TIME AFTER TIME with previous upgrades did I know to go back and re-install my video drivers by re-installing the kernel before completing the upgrade - ELSE THE COMPUTER WOULD HAVE BEEN A BLACK SCREEN BOAT ANCHOR, AGAIN.

To happen once or twice is no big deal - but a disturbing pattern has emerged; and Debian 6.0.1a "Squeeze" has been released - which has "caught up" with my hardware.

Do I invest the 8+ hours it will take to get my system comfortable again so I can WORK and EARN, or hope Ubuntu gets this fixed?

I'm giving it one more week, and leaving the machine run...

My next computer will likely be a quad processor Mac. I'm getting too darn old to keep going through the same computer purgatory every six months.

[el_koraco]

My next computer will likely be a quad processor Mac.

i think that's the best thing for you, at least until the canterbury distro comes out.

[arkham]

Ubuntu is not getting worse, not at all - usability has improved greatly. Bugs happen with all software, and with the amount of different things that people install on Ubuntu, once you go outside the base install packages you will eventually hit one - especially with a distribution upgrade.

I have hit these issues on several systems, and have always found a workaround or a answer on the forums to get around it until it was fixed properly. I will say though, that the LTS releases are significantly less prone to this (my Multimedia server with a desktop and Mythbuntu has seen far more issues than my web server with no Gnome or other cruft).

It's usually a trade off you have to make - a more solid, less buggy OS that will "just work" but with less bells and whistles and lack of bleeding edge features, drivers etc. OR a less stable, slightly more buggy OS with those bits added in.

In a perfect world you get both, but software development is a long way from a perfect world. :)

[fudoki]

Forgot to mention - I realize Natty is an Alpha release. I only have it because Maverick was "skipping" and dropping out playing mp3 audio files using the Generic kernel!!! So I needed a low latency or real time kernel. In the Ubuntu Help Wiki it recommends a very simple procedure to make Ubuntu become Ubuntu Studio. When I used this procedure, I was upgraded to Natty with no warning, request for confirmation, at all. I would NEVER put an Alpha ANYTHING on a production machine; but once it's done, what then??? When you run aptitude and install ubuntustudio-desktop, etc. it should not upgrade your whole distro - especially when the most current Ubuntustudio version is 10.10!!!

Just wanted to be clear - I am not a moron...

[cyb3r_sn4k3]

I always upgrage for me it solves more problems and rarely creates any. Maybe your setup/hardware is getting old or maybe you might just be a mac fan ? :P

[fudoki]

[QUOTE=arkham;10624944]Ubuntu is not getting worse, not at all - usability has improved greatly. [snip!] the LTS releases are significantly less prone to this (my Multimedia server with a desktop and Mythbuntu has seen far more issues than my web server with no Gnome or other cruft).

--------------------------------------

In fairness, I generally agree with you. Despite being an Alpha iteration, 11.04 is notably faster and smoother, and the improvements made in Plasma are both welcome and impressive. Can't get Gnome upgraded because of the Nvidia issues, but KDE upgraded fine, by hand. Have almost all the libraries upgraded, and the core system files. As long as I leave the machine run it appears to be fine, and running better than ever. Overall, I love Ubuntu.

But I will continue to poke them about display functionality with the most popular high performance hardware being a top priority of quality assurance since display problems are, by definition, show stoppers.

If I had to run Debian on this particular box, I would not enjoy near the performance or benefits that Ubuntu delivers; performance I need for music production and graphics artwork. So it's a trade-off I accept. I agree with your post.