Lifetime Mac user considering a Pangolin

[hedgeborn]

I'm looking for a larger, higher res replacement for my current Macbook. The 15" Macbook pro is just too expensive for what it offers.

I'll be honest, I don't do much with my computer. If I can download some movies and watch them, download music, synch with an MP3 player, surf internet and check email I'll be happy. I'm not likely to tinker too much with things or try to modify them much.

I'm no guru. I don't even play around with terminal in Mac OS X because I don't have to.

I refuse to buy a Windows PC.

The question is, is the Pangolin what I think it is? What I have been waiting years for? An actual, ready-to-go out of the box machine that I can just use and enjoy or am I in for a nightmare of typing arcane commands into the terminal just to accomplish simple tasks and troubleshoot?

Put it this way. Would you give your mom or dad a Pangolin and expect them to be able to use it daily and stay out of trouble?

Also, what is the deal with the 2.5 hour battery life? Does that 9 cell battery from the OEM work with the Pangolin because quite frankly 2.5 hours just sucks.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the annoying noob questions. I'm a blissfully ignorant Mac user who really wants to believe that Linux is finally ready for the general public. I'm willing to learn a bit. I just don't want to spend hours on troubleshooting simple problems and I'd rather not have to memorize a littany of gibberish commands if I can avoid it. (no offense to those who enjoy that part of the experience)

[robert.rankin.jr]

First, regarding the High Res... the Pangolin Screen is beautiful! Never had such a nice screen.

Would my dad be able to use it? No. But my dad trys to fill out a form online, and an input box says "First Name," and he asks me what he should put there. So, my dad can't use anything without help.

But, I don't think you'll ever have to open a terminal to perform any of the functions you described. When I'm opening terminals, I'm doing it to mess around with stuff that the average user would never mess with.

Regarding the battery life... no clue about the nine cell, but I get two hours battery life and bought a spare battery. Kind of annoying, but I can deal with it. But if there were a nine cell, would love to buy it.

Is Ubuntu as ready for the general public as a mac? I'd say no. But I'd also say you probably will not have any trouble with it. Maybe wait until the next release cycle, with Karmic. It should have much better nvidia support that Jaunty, so it will be better with the Pangolin.

[andretardif]

I would agree with Robert, I definitely believe that Linux is now ready for prime time. I have used Red Hat, Susu and Mandrake in the past and found them to be somewhat cumbersome to use, but then again this was years ago so I imagine they have progressed. Since installing Ubuntu 8.04 and now 9.04 I am amazed how easy to use it is and the updates work flawlessly.

The learning curve is not going to be that bad coming from a Mac but I have to caution you on one thing, if you are married to itunes then you are in trouble moving to Linux. Although Linux has a number of mp3 supported software it is not itunes and I know some people have problems with that. Of course you could use wine or dual boot into... never mind you don't want to do that.:p

Although Ubuntu just works like the Mac I don't think you can find a more user friendly interface then the Mac.

Good luck with that I am also on the fence with purchasing a System 76

[thomasaaron]

or am I in for a nightmare of typing arcane commands into the terminal just to accomplish simple tasks and troubleshoot?

For the most part, this won't be necessary. We don't install restricted formats (mp3, dvd playback, etc...). You will need to run a brief tutorial that we provide in order to install them. It takes about two minutes and you have to copy and paste a few lines into the terminal. No big deal, really.

The terminal is great for troubleshooting. While we're trying to move away from pointing customers towards it, if you ever *do* need to use the terminal, we will provide the commands. You would just need to report the output.

Would you give your mom or dad a Pangolin and expect them to be able to use it daily and stay out of trouble?

My 12 year old daughter uses it all the time and had no trouble. Even my wife, who refuses to leave Windows, knows her way around it. Ubuntu is pretty straight-forward.

Is Ubuntu as ready for the general public as a mac?

In my opinion, yes.
Is it absolutely flawless? No, and neither is Mac and Windows. But the support is better, cheaper and faster.

In fact, I'd argue that Ubuntu is already *entering* the prime-time. I constantly get calls from people who have just researched Ubuntu and want to make the switch. The next four or five years is going to be amazing.

[thomasaaron]

...and there is no 9-cell for the Pangolin.

[Futurian]

Hedgeborn,

I just (a week or two ago) switched from using an older MacBookPro (32-bit [Core Duo, not Core 2 Duo] as my primary machine after trying out Ubuntu linux on some desktop PCs. I've switched to a Pangolin with the high-res display. I depend on this machine for my work and many other things.

I do some things that require the terminal, but it sounds as if you wouldn't do much that would require the terminal.

I am very happy with with my Pangolin, and very happy with Ubuntu. It used to be that I enjoyed my several past Macs because of the delights that they surprised me with now and then, in comparison with my Windows experiences. (I still use Windows on some other machines, but only because I have to.

Now, it is Ubuntu that delights me, and my Pangolin is part of that delight.

Obviously, I can't decide for you, but I am happy with my switch to my Pangolin.

And, I can use the hundreds of dollars that I saved over a new MBP, which I seriously considered!

Also, these support forums are _very_ helpful; I don't feel that I am alone with Linux or System76.

Good luck, regardless what you do.

[miniyak]

Green user "out of the box" compatibility conflicts

1: Default DVD playback= null - this can be enable though Ubuntu's handy graphical add-remove feature. However i recommend the terminal method+ restart, because of issues i had on my pangolin
2: Default Sound Settings= muted internal mic& restrained volume level- These problems are easily solved in a graphical manner
3: HDMI+Eternal 720p= the suck - 1080p was ok but vga still out performed it. On top of this, the graphical destination to the proprietary monitor settings has insufficient permissions so it needs to be accessed through the terminal(to bring up GUI) in order to change settings. Cloning is easy enough but is worthless with the fact that the upgraded screen on the pangolin is going to look better then any external you hook it up to. (Even vga+1080p VS pangolin 1680*1050). The good news to this is that the pangolin looks (objectively)better then most HDTVs
4: Initial keyboard set-up failed for me- Note that i use dvorak as a default. I assume qwerty works fine since thats what it defaulted me to. This happened in the initial set-up of the computer(which is very simple btw), it was easily fixed once things got going but still annoyingly(legitimately) notes dvorak as my second keyboard.
5: Track pad= frustrating- the mouse buttons are even worse then the pad. i have 8-11 year old laptops with better mouse set-ups. If you hate track pads to begin with, an external is a must. I have got used to the pad but the mouse buttons need more tactile feed back.
6: Itunes+WINE+Ubuntu64bit=fail- may be it would work if you could find an older version of itunes but not the current one

Note that all the hardware is in working order and performs brilliantly, i am just pointing out issues green users would have. Also note i have yet to test, the dial up modem,s/pdif, eSata,& Bluetooth(tried BT headphones but i think my they are dead... bt fails green users cross platform so i not expecting fun).

For someone willing to jump on the forums for small issues, The only things that i can imaging being dealbreakers, are the mouse and HDMI. Besides that i find Ubuntu in general to be a lot more easy to deal with then windows, but i cant say from the perspective of a mac user. For your uses an Ubuntu system seems to be a great choice to me, especially with the pangolin's amazing screen upgrade and system 76's great support. Tomasaaron alone has helped me out with a few things that companies like dell and apple probably wouldn't bat an eye at. I'll do a full review in the near future maybe with video so stay tuned if your going to wait a while.

[earrame]

I refuse to buy a Windows PC.

Word. Last summer my household went from my wife's Windows box and my home biuld Mepis box to 2 Macs and my Pangolin.

I love the Pangolin. Compared to my previous years of experience (or lack thereof) with my Mepis and Mandrake systems, I was pleasantly surprised at how everything just works with my Pangolin. I think I've fiddled in the terminal a few times but the couple times where I needed to were just as Tom wrote; All I had to do was copy and paste the given command string. I didn't have to screw with learing bash or reading man pages or anything.

System76 has a customer for life here.

Put it this way. Would you give your mom or dad a Pangolin and expect them to be able to use it daily and stay out of trouble?

Absolutely. When my mom (73) replaces her ancient Windows machine (probably within the year) I will be encouraging my #1 recommendation to her; System76. I know she will have zero trouble with anything she wants or needs to do with System76/Ubuntu.

And the last lingering Windows machine I have to support will be gone, gone forever. Hahahahahaha. I can't wait!:D

[MarkID]

A few months ago, I bought a Pangloin for my Mom, a long time Mac user. She loves it. Now, when it first arrived, I went over and installed for her all the things that it's best to install from the temrinal. But once that was done, she never had to open the terminal. However, check out the tutorials and the S76 Wiki, and you'll find that running a few commands from the terminal is really straight forward. The screen is first rate, and the Pangolin should be able to do everything you need. I wouldn't hesitate. BTW, I've bought three computers from S76, and can't speak highly enough about both the products and the service.

[Scotty Bones]

If your a Mac fan, here is a project (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/global_menu) you might want to check out.

[hedgeborn]

Thanks so much for the informative replies everyone. It's nice to know there is such a supportive and enthusiastic community here. It definitely puts some of my worries at ease.

I'm not totally terrified of the terminal, if I can find simple step-by-step directions on how to fix something I'll try my best.

I'm not thrilled about the battery life though, barely enough time to watch a movie. :(

Are you all certain that there is no extended battery from the OEM that would work with the Pangolin. 2.5 hrs of battery life could be a deal breaker for me.

[bakelitedoorbell]

I was in a similar boat last month - it was time to replace my three year old 1st gen MacBook with another laptop. I wanted a higher screen resolution than was available in the MacBook lineup (800 vertical pixels). The top of the line MacBook Pro has 1200 vertical pixels, but is too expensive for me.

Decided on a Serval laptop from System76. I have had it for about a week, it's very nice. There is bit of "culture shock" because I have to learn new (non-Mac) ways to do things, and the new jargon.

Don't worry about typing in commands, there is a GUI interface or control panel for everything I have tried to do. You'll want to add media codecs to play all your movie files, which can be done with a menu command (Applications/Add_Remove).

If your MP3 player is a new iPod, you may have difficulty because iTunes doesn't have a linux version. An older iPod may be fine with Rhythmbox or other music programs (I haven't tried them). I have an iPod Touch, and as far as I know iTunes is required to update Apps and install firmware upgrades for the Touch. I am keeping my old MacBook for syncing the iPod Touch.

So depending on what Apple peripheral gadgets you have, it may be an easy transition for you. I recommend System 76.

[hedgeborn]

I don't have an iPod and I've never been a fan of iTunes, so there's no problem there. I use an old Panasonic MP3 player that just mounts as a removeable drive, so I'm guessing it would work fine.

I'd probably be getting a new MP3 player soon, but I'd look for something Linux-friendly if i got the Pangolin anyway.

As far as the tech support goes, I assume that you get that year of tech support from system 76 that comes for free and then you can still come here for help?

[ufugu]

i was a "lifetime" mac user too (about 20 years on macs in my case) and switched to linux almost three years ago full time.

the only bummer for me was missing garageband and the itunes/ipod combo, but since you are already not doing that you'll be fine.

i reckon i have saved at least three grand just from not buying a new mac(it was hardware upgrade time for me when i switched) and os upgrades and software etc. factor those expenses into your shopping decision and how can you lose!

[Scotty Bones]

If your MP3 player is a new iPod, you may have difficulty because iTunes doesn't have a linux version. An older iPod may be fine with Rhythmbox or other music programs (I haven't tried them). I have an iPod Touch, and as far as I know iTunes is required to update Apps and install firmware upgrades for the Touch. I am keeping my old MacBook for syncing the iPod Touch.


I have one of new 16 GiB Ipod Nano's. I use a program called Gtkpod to manage it. Its kind of annoying really. I have to export my playlists (m3u not pls) from rhythmbox into gtkpod to sync up, but it works. The only thing I can't transfer yet is video.

This Ipod is a replacement for an old classic ipod. I used to use Amarok (back in the hardy 8.10 days), and it worked very well. It may work equally well for a newer Ipod. The new Amarok is a complete rewrite and I personally don't like it, so I haven't tested its Ipod compatibility. Maybe someone who is using it can attest to its functionality.


EDIT:
By the way, I absolutely love my new pangolin. It's really is a sweet machine.

[tgalati4]

Find a used macbook pro on craigslist. Then dual-boot with Ubuntu and Leopard. That gives you an OS that you are familar with, with the added bonus of learning Ubuntu by booting into it and exploring.

[hedgeborn]

One or two more questions for you guys if you don't mind.

What about USB dongles and external hard drives? Are those easy to mount, can Ubuntu read/write to HFS+ volumes or would I need to format the drives UFS or something?

and is there some type of solution for QuickTime media? Can you play .mov files with Ubuntu?

Thanks :D

[hedgeborn]

Find a used macbook pro on craigslist. Then dual-boot with Ubuntu and Leopard. That gives you an OS that you are familar with, with the added bonus of learning Ubuntu by booting into it and exploring.

I actually have a 4 year old Thinkpad in my closet gathering dust. It's an R50 if I remember right. It's got some kind of hardware problem, won't boot at all. I had given some thought to just getting that fixed and installing Ubuntu on that. I just don't know what's wrong with it and if it is worth spending the money to get it fixed. It does have a higher res screen than my Macbook though, I think it's 1440 x something.

Tried installing Fedora Core on it years ago but I could never get the wireless card to work. I played Tux Racer on it for about 3 days, then went back to using Windows XP UGH... until the thing just completely failed on me and I bought the Macbook and threw it in the closet...

[bakelitedoorbell]

One or two more questions for you guys if you don't mind.

What about USB dongles and external hard drives? Are those easy to mount, can Ubuntu read/write to HFS+ volumes or would I need to format the drives UFS or something?

and is there some type of solution for QuickTime media? Can you play .mov files with Ubuntu?

Thanks :D

I have used flash usb drives that were formatted on my mac - no problem.

Also quicktime movies are playable after you install the codecs. I was just now on the Apple site viewing some movie trailers in quicktime.

[aysiu]

Ubuntu cannot write to HFS+, so it'd have to be reformatted as something else.

[hedgeborn]

Another thing that just occured to me was to pick up a Starling netbook instead, for now.

It would be a much smaller investment and could give me a chance to try out Ubuntu and System 76 to see what I think of them both.

If it turns out I love the Starling and it is dependable and does everything I ask of it, then I would be way more comfortable retiring the macbook and buying a Pangolin as my main machine.

I know the Starling comes with the Netbook remix, is there a way to turn off that silly dashboard/launcher thing so you can have normal menus and a desktop experience that would be closer to what I could expect from the regular Ubuntu?

I wouldn't mind having a little netbook to play around with and it would give me a chance to see what works and what doesn't as far as my needs are concerned. The Starling also comes with much more acceptable battery life as a bonus.

All the talk about sleep/suspend problems has me a little worried too. I'm used to just shutting the lid of my Mac when I'm done with it and knowing that it will be ready to go when I open it again without a hitch. Whats the usual protocol with a Linux laptop. Leave it running all the time? Shut it down each night when you're done with it or put it in sleep mode?

[thomasaaron]

Another thing that just occured to me was to pick up a Starling netbook instead, for now.

Depends on what you want to do with it. The Starlings purpose is primarily computing in the cloud. It's not really a full-powered notebook. While you can pretty much do all of the things you previously mentioned, you've got to remember that it has an Intel Atom processor and can't handle too much of a workload at once.

I know the Starling comes with the Netbook remix, is there a way to turn off that silly dashboard/launcher thing so you can have normal menus and a desktop experience that would be closer to what I could expect from the regular Ubuntu?

You can toggle back and forth between remix and a standard desktop. Remix is pretty nice though. I didn't think I'd like it, but I certainly do. It's perfect for its purposes.

All the talk about sleep/suspend problems has me a little worried too.

All of our laptops suspend and hibernate.

[hedgeborn]

Depends on what you want to do with it. The Starlings purpose is primarily computing in the cloud. It's not really a full-powered notebook. While you can pretty much do all of the things you previously mentioned, you've got to remember that it has an Intel Atom processor and can't handle too much of a workload at once.



You can toggle back and forth between remix and a standard desktop. Remix is pretty nice though. I didn't think I'd like it, but I certainly do. It's perfect for its purposes.



All of our laptops suspend and hibernate.

Thanks for the reply, Thomas. I do understand not to expect regular notebook performance from a netbook, but I'd been toying around with the idea of getting one anyway so...

I feel like my macbook 13 is too small for regular desktop type use, but not small enough that i want to carry it around a lot. Seems like a Starling + Pangolin combination would be ideal.

I figured I'd start with the Starling though, just to get my feet wet in the linux arena. One question for you, i understand the Starling isn't really designed to be upgradeable, which I'm ok with, but suppose you have a hard drive fail? Am I going to be able to replace it with a standard set of tools or does it require major surgery?

[bill516]

I have been running a Pangolin now for several months and it is proving to be an excellent machine provided a user can live with 2 hours of battery life. No larger battery appears to be available so think about that if battery life is important to you.

Tech support provided by System76/Thomas Aaron is absolutely first-rate. I have used a lot of computers over many years from different vendors. No one has done it better in my experience. No one.

I am running Ubuntu 8.10 with no inclination to upgrade. Suspend/hibernate on this machine is dead-bang reliable.

Wireless works very well and easily. I travel a good bit so this is important. Yes, it will work with hidden SSID's & WPA-PSK if that is a concern.

Do get the screen upgrade, it is well worth it. Viewing angles are quite good.

On-board microphone & camera work so Skype, if you use it, is readily available.

If you do virtual machines be careful to order your machine with a processor that supports Intel's virtual machine technology, which the T6400 in my machine will not do. Practical consequence; I cannot run 64 bit guest systems despite having a 64 bit host system. (32 bit guests are no problem) You will have to go to the Intel website to check CPU specs. For most users this is not a show-stopper. (Mostly important if you like to play with Live CDs and run different Linux versions, or if you want to run a 64 bit Windows in a virtual machine.)

Fan is reasonably quiet but not silent.

For multi-media codecs the HowTo on the S76 website works. Just follow that and remember you are running a 64 bit system.

I have a number of family members running Macs and they love them. IMHO the Pangolin is a vastly better bang-for-the-buck.

Any negatives? Battery life as mentioned. Keyboard touch is a bit heavier than I would like. That is about it.

In every other respect my Pangolin is a turnkey system and ideal for a first-time Linux user.

[hedgeborn]

I'm not thrilled about the battery life on the Pangolin, but considering I would most likely use it as a desktop replacement its not the end of the world. Especially if I also have a Starling to run around with.

One question I did have was about interoperability with the Mac, specifically, if I wanted to buy an external HD and use it to back up files, mp3s, movies etc from my Mac and the Linux machines how would I need to format that disk to ensure that Ubuntu and Mac OS X could read/write to the same volume without trouble? I know that I can use my mac to format a drive as UFS instead of HFS+ or is there something else which would work seamlessly?

Thats an important consideration for me. I'd like to be able to easily move big files to and from Mac and Linux and my backup drive without using a network.

[miniyak]

im pretty sure the a typical fat32 format works fine cross linux, mac and windows platforms but i could be wrong.

Regarding the keyboard on the pangolin, im very happy with it and think its more tactile then most laptops i have used, so i guess this is just a matter of preference.

The battery life really is a bummer because the pangolin is a lot more portable then it looks. It does have weight behind behind it, but it is far from cumbersome. I recommend the second battery if you move around a lot, im actually thinking about getting the second one at the moment...

[Scotty Bones]

The battery life really is a bummer because the pangolin is a lot more portable then it looks. It does have weight behind behind it, but it is far from cumbersome. I recommend the second battery if you move around a lot, im actually thinking about getting the second one at the moment...

On that note, I would also recommend the car adapter as well. It's been a real life saver.

The built-in speakers on the Pangolin are terrible for anything other than system sounds. But, I use bluetooth headphones on the go, and a soundblaster MP3+ USB for an optical connection to my home theater system (PulseAudio rocks in that regard). So, if you are willing, that limitation can be over come.

I still love it though. I sometimes get teased by friends because I don't want to let it out of my sight. :)

[hedgeborn]

Any idea how easy it is to get at the hard drive in the Starling, should it need to be replaced?

[tgalati4]

Mac OS X can read and write ext2 and ext3 so it's easy to move files back and forth. Since l live in Los Angeles, used macbook pros are readily available. Hollywood writers flip them when applecore runs out.

[thomasaaron]

Any idea how easy it is to get at the hard drive in the Starling, should it need to be replaced?

Hedgeborn, you're hijacking too many threads with this one. :D