How to bring Microsoft Down

[toastywombel]

Hi this is my first post, but I have been an avid Ubuntu user since Dapper. I thought I would start off my first post stating my hatred for Microsoft which you can probably gather from the title :). However, I also wanted to see some opinions on how open source software like Ubuntu (which i my opinion has the best chance out of all the other linux distros) could drastically reduce the control Microsoft on the software world.

I personally believe better gaming and windows emulation would be a big factor, but I would like to know what you think.

[koshatnik]

I think that you probably think very hard before making a second thread.

[howefield]

Rofl, a beautifully accurate reply.

[elianthony]

I think that you probably think very hard before making a second thread.

Probably a very good idea.

[toastywombel]

Wow well I like Ubuntu but I did not know that their community was full of persons who degrade? Why what did I do wrong?

[Swarms]

Wow well I like Ubuntu but I did not know that their community was full of persons who degrade? Why what did I do wrong?

It is not about bringing someone down, it is about improving Ubuntu.

[Ozor Mox]

This was a hideous choice of thread title. I can practically hear the stampede of Windows-bashing bashers already! :)

Linux should, and will grow on its own merits. It does not need to wipe out the competition.

[Therion]

Wow well I like Ubuntu but I did not know that their community was full of persons who degrade? Why what did I do wrong?
Easy there, hoss. No degrading going on here.

It's okay to hate Microsoft. It's okay to want to promote Ubuntu and the FOSS ideals, we encourage that in fact. It's just that "bashing" MS is not the way to get things done and, intentional or not, your post reads like an invitation to do just that.

You're being advised to tone it down some is all.

[Ozor Mox]

Wow well I like Ubuntu but I did not know that their community was full of persons who degrade? Why what did I do wrong?

Try to avoid bringing hatred or the downfall of Microsoft into it, and you'll be just fine. Most people here, even those who have a dislike of Microsoft's products or the company, want to see Ubuntu get better, not see others fail.

[toastywombel]

I disagree, Microsoft has been a key in halting development of open source operating systems being more widely used. IE: Microsoft sued Novell after they were introduced on new IBM servers.

I agree it is about making Ubuntu better, and one way to do that is by introducing new people to it, but as long as Microsoft is used on 90%+ of home desktops that is hard to do.

Improving the operating system is important but so is improving the marketing capabilities, of Ubuntu and other open source distros. Marketing is why Microsoft is in the position where they are able to hold back open source expansion.

[pbpersson]

In the first place, you cannot "bring Microsoft down"

Even if Ubuntu becomes the best OS on the planet and everyone realizes it and abandons Windows, Microsoft will still be around. They are not going anywhere.

If Ubuntu continues to innovate AND Windows does not AND the entire world realizes that they can be more productive with Ubuntu then MAYBE we could see people moving to Ubuntu in droves. However, consider this:

1. Windows will continue to advance
2. If Ubuntu ever did become that popular the hackers would be attempting to attack Ubuntu
3. Microsoft will not let Windows die without a fight

This is really all about competition. If Ubuntu continues to get better, they will be forced to innovate at the same pace to retain their customers. It is a win-win scenario for everyone.

[toastywombel]

Fair enough I realize that my title was a little provocative. Ill tone it down next time.

[djsroknrol]

Microsoft will never be toppled..do you own a Zume or an Xbox? I'm sure they realize that they can't survive on software alone....

As for their software business, they have the consumer in mind...an OS for the masses, and it basically does what it's intended for.

Sure, it's got it's problems...so does Ubuntu and every other OS...nothing's perfect....so use what's right for you ;)

[Ozor Mox]

I disagree, Microsoft has been a key in halting development of open source operating systems being more widely used. IE: Microsoft sued Novell after they were introduced on new IBM servers.

I agree it is about making Ubuntu better, and one way to do that is by introducing new people to it, but as long as Microsoft is used on 90%+ of home desktops that is hard to do.

Improving the operating system is important but so is improving the marketing capabilities, of Ubuntu and other open source distros. Marketing is why Microsoft is in the position where they are able to hold back open source expansion.

I agree, I think they are holding the software industry back by stopping any bit of competition in its tracks. Look at Asus dropping Linux from their netbooks for example. If they had dropped them due to poor sales, no problem, but no one can look at their "It's Better With Windows" page and seriously tell me Microsoft had nothing to do with that.

[stwschool]

Who cares what everyone else does? Ubuntu helps me work more efficiently. It doesn't affect me whether or not everyone else uses it. It's wonderful, we all know ubuntu is wonderful. We know microsoft are a pain in the ****. Maturity is being able to express that in an adult fashion, not in a 'm$ sux' basement-dweller kinda way.

[juancarlospaco]

Its Done.
Keep working just like all of us are working and its done.

You dont trust me...?, see the Slow Process here...


Ubuntu Vs Windows 7
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/5645/viz.png

Ubuntu Vs Windows XP
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8851/fv90dc.jpg

Ubuntu Vs OS X
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2173/viz3.png



http://asset.soup.io/asset/0248/4899_e878_800.png

:D

[sydbat]

2. If Ubuntu ever did become that popular the hackers would be attempting to attack UbuntuI've always had a problem with this. I believe it is misleading.

The real reason Microsoft products are targeted by crackers is because they are closed. With the exception of social engineers who try to get your banking info (regardless of OS), almost all malware aimed at Microsoft products are designed to show how easy it is to mess with a proprietary system and to discredit that proprietary system.

Apple is in danger of this recently too, but not because their "market share" has risen, but because of the proprietary/closed nature of most of their products.

I really do not believe at all that Open Source software (including OS's) really will be targeted because that goes against what the crackers have been/are attempting to prove. Plus, the nature of Open Source makes it virtually impossible to pull off anything remotely similar to what has been/is happening with Microsoft products.[/rant]

We now rejoin the thread...

[toastywombel]

I've always had a problem with this. I believe it is misleading.

The real reason Microsoft products are targeted by crackers is because they are closed. With the exception of social engineers who try to get your banking info (regardless of OS), almost all malware aimed at Microsoft products are designed to show how easy it is to mess with a proprietary system and to discredit that proprietary system.

Apple is in danger of this recently too, but not because their "market share" has risen, but because of the proprietary/closed nature of most of their products.

I really do not believe at all that Open Source software (including OS's) really will be targeted because that goes against what the crackers have been/are attempting to prove. Plus, the nature of Open Source makes it virtually impossible to pull off anything remotely similar to what has been/is happening with Microsoft products.[/rant]

We now rejoin the thread...

Yes it is somewhat pointless to try and create spyware or adware for open source distros, any issues can be resolved within days or hours as opposed to the once monthly updates by microsoft.

[toastywombel]

Furthermore has there been any thought into commercial time for Ubuntu? One possible way is to have an online contest for a commercial and require an entrance fee, get enought people to enter and/or donate it could be done

[adrianx]

I'm also not a big believer in the "security through obscurity" theory - Linux is less popular and that's why it doesn't get targeted so much. What about servers, then? I believe that the OSS model together with the way Linux is designed have a lot more to do with it.

[koshatnik]

Let the funk out, let the love in.

I think we've all arrived at a very special place now. /dabs eye

[forrestcupp]

It's funny to see how times change. In the past, there would have been a lynch mob posting to this thread crying out, "Down with Microshaft! Kill Gates and Ballmer!"

But now you have a lynch mob yelling at the person who wants to take Microsoft down.

It just amazes me how fickle people are around here. Maybe it would be good to have a healthy balance and not a pendulum swing.

[Daisuke_Aramaki]

oh no! not another microsoft hatred thread. if you don't like microsoft, its fine, but don't go about preaching microsoft hate.

[benj1]

How to bring Microsoft Down

create a better OS. no hasn't worked
infest windows with viruses. no
give away OS for free. not realy


i'm out of ideas, i guess microsoft realy is unbeatable

[koshatnik]

It's funny to see how times change. In the past, there would have been a lynch mob posting to this thread crying out, "Down with Microshaft! Kill Gates and Ballmer!"

But now you have a lynch mob yelling at the person who wants to take Microsoft down.

It just amazes me how fickle people are around here. Maybe it would be good to have a healthy balance and not a pendulum swing.

Well, it is a bit childish isn't it? All this bashing MS and Windows.. what does it actually achieve in real terms? As an adult, I find all this a bit pathetic really. Maybe its very de riguer for 14 year olds to go around hating stuff, but I'm a bit past that now. If you don't like a company, don't buy their products. If you do buy their products, and they suck, go tell the company you bought it from, don't air your dirty laundry in public.

I don't care if someone hates microsoft. Go tell microsoft. This is a linux forum.

[toastywombel]

Well, it is a bit childish isn't it? All this bashing MS and Windows.. what does it actually achieve in real terms? As an adult, I find all this a bit pathetic really. Maybe its very de riguer for 14 year olds to go around hating stuff, but I'm a bit past that now. If you don't like a company, don't buy their products. If you do buy their products, and they suck, go tell the company you bought it from, don't air your dirty laundry in public.

I don't care if someone hates microsoft. Go tell microsoft. This is a linux forum.

I already stated that i believe that i should have named the thread something else, but i do not think i have acted childish so far so i would appreciate if you would not call me childish. Thankyou :)

[unknownPoster]

I'm also not a big believer in the "security through obscurity" theory - Linux is less popular and that's why it doesn't get targeted so much. What about servers, then? I believe that the OSS model together with the way Linux is designed have a lot more to do with it.

A lot has to do with the fact that Linux is a multi-user system. If the server is designed to be used by multiple users, typically, only a few of those user accounts have the appropriate levels of privileges to cause trouble. So even if a user account is hacked, most of the time, malicious acts can only wreak havoc in the individual user space.

[koshatnik]

I already stated that i believe that i should have named the thread something else, but i do not think i have acted childish so far so i would appreciate if you would not call me childish. Thankyou :)

I said it was childish to "hate microsoft". You made the association with my statement and yourself. I don't know you, so cannot make such an assumption.

[dannybuntu]

Eh? Whatever happened to Ubuntu:

A person with Ubuntu is open and available to others (including Microsoft), affirming of others, does not feel threatened that others are able and good, for he or she has a proper self-assurance that comes from knowing that he or she belongs in a greater whole and is diminished when others are humiliated or diminished (like Microsoft), when others are tortured or oppressed.

Bill Gates has actually done a lot for humanity if you think about it.

[steev182]

It's funny to see how times change. In the past, there would have been a lynch mob posting to this thread crying out, "Down with Microshaft! Kill Gates and Ballmer!"

But now you have a lynch mob yelling at the person who wants to take Microsoft down.

It just amazes me how fickle people are around here. Maybe it would be good to have a healthy balance and not a pendulum swing.

It's just so much more fashionable to hate Steve Jobs and Apple now...

[koshatnik]

It's just so much more fashionable to hate Steve Jobs and Apple now...

To be fair, Jobs is an idiot.

[steev182]

A very rich and shrewd idiot.

[adrianx]

It's also very "fashionable" to attack other Linux distros.... I think it is healthy that at least some people still feel that they should boycott Microsoft as much as they can and do things differently.

Why is it so important to feel all warm and fuzzy towards them?

[mousestalker]

Microsoft is already down.

Proof: Microsoft is headquartered in Redmond, Washington.

Redmond is a suburb of Seattle.

Seattle is famous for the amount of rain that falls there.

Seattle is also famous for the number of cloudy days it has.

Rainy days and cloudy days are triggers for depression.

A company is made of its owners and employees.

Microsoft's owners and employees are mostly in and around Seattle.

Therefore they are more depressed than the average American.

Another word for being depressed is being down

Therefore, Microsoft is already down.

:)

[forrestcupp]

Well, it is a bit childish isn't it? All this bashing MS and Windows.. what does it actually achieve in real terms? As an adult, I find all this a bit pathetic really. Maybe its very de riguer for 14 year olds to go around hating stuff, but I'm a bit past that now. If you don't like a company, don't buy their products. If you do buy their products, and they suck, go tell the company you bought it from, don't air your dirty laundry in public.

I don't care if someone hates microsoft. Go tell microsoft. This is a linux forum.

I agree that it's childish to be extreme about it and to use derogatory names. But I also think it's childish to go to the other extreme and try to make people love Microsoft even though they prefer a different OS. It's a pendulum. My point was really that there should be a healthy balance.

A moderate dislike for the competition has helped push people to make GNU/Linux a better OS. Extreme hate is annoying. Being extreme against the people who are MS haters is kind of sappy.

But what do I care? Presently, I primarily use Vista.

[Mister LinOx]

I really wouldn't want to bring Microsoft down. I would like to see them actually make a great operating system as I would like to see Linux distros keep growing and growing. Although I don't really like most of Microsoft's OSes, I don't want them to go into debt and stop everything. =P

[Therion]

Microsoft is already down.

Proof: ...

Therefore, Microsoft is already down.

Game over, man, GAME OVER!








/Salutes your unassailable, airtight, logic!

[pwnst*r]

I think that you probably think very hard before making a second thread.

lulz, spot on.

[lukjad007]

Can you say "Reoccurring Discussions"? :)

[ghostborg]

I understand your convictions, but at this time I personally do not trust my pictures and videos to Ubuntu.
The below - do not take as complaining but frustrations as I too would like to break the leash.
I need photo and video editing at an amateur level.
Video editing can be done but is much more difficult under Linux. I do not trust that dvgrab is processing the files correctly. Once imported raw, dv1 or 2 many of the programs cannot import them.
Once in if the programs don't crash they do not even have integrated title editors. Or the ability to instantly playback the changes made.

For me I like Magix Movie edit pro under Windows.
I would like to see those abilities in Open source.
Virtualbox works but not worth the bother.
Wine something always has issues with it.
Photo-I use Picasa and Adobe Elements under wine.
Video-Have never completed anything under Linux.
Kdenlive 0.7.3, Cinelerra, Pitivia,Kino,Open movie etc.
Too quirky, problematic or poor ease of use.

Nero Linux is the only program I can use UDF multisession between Windows And Ubuntu. It's not open source or free.

[.Maleficus.]

Well, it is a bit childish isn't it? All this bashing MS and Windows.. what does it actually achieve in real terms? As an adult, I find all this a bit pathetic really. Maybe its very de riguer for 14 year olds to go around hating stuff, but I'm a bit past that now. If you don't like a company, don't buy their products. If you do buy their products, and they suck, go tell the company you bought it from, don't air your dirty laundry in public.

I don't care if someone hates microsoft. Go tell microsoft. This is a linux forum.
Mr. Koshatnik, I will hereby be referring to you as "Mr. Level-headed".

[BlazeFire247]

I love using Ubuntu very much, but people still use and prefer Windows; and doesn't mean if you're a fan of another OS you want to bring down another one. Besides, there are some things that Windows has that Ubuntu doesnt, and Ubuntu has that Windows doesnt.

[Sealbhach]

Just trying to restore some balance...


.

[forrestcupp]

Just trying to restore some balance...


.

:lol:

[Dragonbite]

Hi this is my first post, but I have been an avid Ubuntu user since Dapper. I thought I would start off my first post stating my hatred for Microsoft which you can probably gather from the title :). However, I also wanted to see some opinions on how open source software like Ubuntu (which i my opinion has the best chance out of all the other linux distros) could drastically reduce the control Microsoft on the software world.

I personally believe better gaming and windows emulation would be a big factor, but I would like to know what you think.

Hmm.... this could be said in 2 ways
[negative] I hate Windows
[positive] I love Ubuntu much better than Windows

I get enough negativity from the News, thank you very much. I much prefer positive spins.

[3startuna]

You cant bring something down that was never up

[3startuna]

Try to avoid bringing hatred or the downfall of Microsoft into it, and you'll be just fine. Most people here, even those who have a dislike of Microsoft's products or the company, want to see Ubuntu get better, not see others fail.

Thats the thing though HOW can microsoft possibly fail anymore?

but I get your point. We dont need to compete with microsoft. Their is just no comparrison.

Linux won that war long ago where currently occupying their land and ravaging their women :D

[Sealbhach]

Try to avoid bringing hatred or the downfall of Microsoft into it, and you'll be just fine. Most people here, even those who have a dislike of Microsoft's products or the company, want to see Ubuntu get better, not see others fail.

Speak for yourself. I want to see Microsoft fail. As long as they exist they are a threat to freedom.


.

[alternatealias]

Speak for yourself. I want to see Microsoft fail. As long as they exist they are a threat to freedom.


.

For those of you who are so desperate to see Microsoft fail, what then does that say of your confidence in Ubuntu?

Much that passes as idealism is disguised hatred or disguised love of power. -- Bertrand Russell

Passionate hatreds can give meaning and purpose to an empty life. These people haunted by the purposelessness of their lives try to find a new content not only by dedicating themselves to a holy cause but also by nursing a fanatical grievance. A mass movement offers them unlimited opportunities for battle. -- Eric Hoffer

Is this really who you are? Are your lives really that empty?

Think about it.

[k2t0f12d]

Micro$oft does enough to warrant contempt.
An organization of its size is representative of many people, though.
Not every single one of them are responsible for the company's actions.
The company itself is an abstract legal figurehead for the organization, eg. Comes vs Microsoft.
It is the leadership that devises and executes the objectionable activities who are responsible for bringing down the company's name, not the few who mention their contempt here.
Free software's communities need not mention their contempt in every breath, though.
We do a lot by using GNU+Linux instead of Windows.
However, there is nothing shameful in opposing the wrong-doer.
It is also Ubuntu's bug No. 1 to displace the monopolist.

Speaking for myself, so long as the leadership of Micro$oft pursue proprietary software development, they can't be trusted with any computing.
So long as they pro-actively seek to harm and inhibit free software development, I oppose their existence.
When they release their programs as free software I will praise their enterprise, not before.

[Shibblet]

For those of you who are so desperate to see Microsoft fail, what then does that say of your confidence in Ubuntu?

I agree. To want a company that employs almost 100,000 people, it's like wanting GM to fail too.

I think the best thing is to make a product that can truly compete with Microsoft's Flagship product. The issue then is the obvious, compatibility.

Penetrating the market that is monopolized by Microsoft is next to impossible. And it's the only market in the world that exists this way. I can't think of another market where one company holds 90% market share.

Open Source is a great way to get people involved, at no cost... and still people would rather glom on to their Microsoft Products.

[pbpersson]

For me I like Magix Movie edit pro under Windows.
I would like to see those abilities in Open source.
Virtualbox works but not worth the bother.
Wine something always has issues with it.
Photo-I use Picasa and Adobe Elements under wine.
Video-Have never completed anything under Linux.
Kdenlive 0.7.3, Cinelerra, Pitivia,Kino,Open movie etc.
Too quirky, problematic or poor ease of use.

The beauty of Open Source is that we do not need to sit on our hands and wait for some executives in some ivory tower in Redmond to get around to fixing our problems.

We control what is in Ubuntu. In many cases, we even have the email address of the person who developed the software.

So my question is, do the developers know about the issues, are they working on them, and when will they be fixed?

[CJ Master]

How do we take down Microsoft? Easy:

Find the main Microsoft HQ. There will be many secret agents roaming around, so you need to activate cloak mode on your super robot suit. Find the main reactor core, and plant a bomb. When it goes off, take the distraction to run up the main stairs and fight the final boss.

[Giant Speck]

How do we take down Microsoft? Easy:

Find the main Microsoft HQ. There will be many secret agents roaming around, so you need to activate cloak mode on your super robot suit. Find the main reactor core, and plant a bomb. When it goes off, take the distraction to run up the main stairs and fight the final boss.

You have to be careful, though, because the Ballmer boss will pop out of a cake and summon developers, developers, developers (!) with his mighty roar.

[k2t0f12d]

You have to be careful, though, because the Ballmer boss will pop out of a cake and summon developers, developers, developers (!) with his mighty roar.Not mentioning the office chair cannon?
Devious.

[Giant Speck]

Not mentioning the office chair cannon?
Devious.

You have to be playing the Mark Lucovsky character to unlock that secret level.

[tsali]

I'm also not a big believer in the "security through obscurity" theory - Linux is less popular and that's why it doesn't get targeted so much. What about servers, then? I believe that the OSS model together with the way Linux is designed have a lot more to do with it.

Security has more to do with the way systems are used and administered - regardless of the OS.

Servers tend to be properly administered.

Consumer systems tend to be more vulnerable.

[alternatealias]

I agree. To want a company that employs almost 100,000 people, it's like wanting GM to fail too.

I think the best thing is to make a product that can truly compete with Microsoft's Flagship product. The issue then is the obvious, compatibility.

Penetrating the market that is monopolized by Microsoft is next to impossible. And it's the only market in the world that exists this way. I can't think of another market where one company holds 90% market share.

Open Source is a great way to get people involved, at no cost... and still people would rather glom on to their Microsoft Products.

To sort of extend what you are saying...

The beauty of Free Software is that it can't lose. It may not ever get more "market share" than Microsoft, but who cares? Why is that important?

What is important is that you like the choice you've made to run Ubuntu.

Now all you need to do is kindly report bugs and feature requests (or patches!) to the developers of Ubuntu and/or your favorite Linux apps so that they can improve.

There's no need for Microsoft to fail in order for you to be happy using Ubuntu.

[adrianx]

Security has more to do with the way systems are used and administered - regardless of the OS.

Servers tend to be properly administered.

Consumer systems tend to be more vulnerable.
I still don't buy the story that crackers don't do it simply because it is not feasible. The cracker that manages to create a persistent Linux exploit will be considered a "hero" in the shady little of world cracking (and perhaps Microsoft). I'm sure that many try.

[benj1]

Not mentioning the office chair cannon?
Devious.

thats nothing compared to the BSOD :D

[3startuna]

How do we take down Microsoft? Easy:

Find the main Microsoft HQ. There will be many secret agents roaming around, so you need to activate cloak mode on your super robot suit. Find the main reactor core, and plant a bomb. When it goes off, take the distraction to run up the main stairs and fight the final boss.
Microsoft is run by agent smith:D

This would make such an awesome movie Linux resistance Vs Microsoft

jokes aside the reason for microsoft's success is marketing. Thats it really. They dont offer a better product than Linux.

I think the only solution is if PC companies like Dell, sony, HP etc, start selling computers with linux optional. I know Dell offers this service.

Once we have the hardware support we will get the software support. i.e. games, 3rd party devices, etc.

Most users dont really care about a lot of features, all they want to know is if they install a game it will run, if they buy a graphics card and plug it in it will work.

Give them that and throw in pretty colours and you got a market to rival microsoft thats it.

[Dragonbite]

Microsoft is run by agent smith:D

This would make such an awesome movie Linux resistance Vs Microsoft

jokes aside the reason for microsoft's success is marketing. Thats it really. They dont offer a better product than Linux.

Just realizing the Microsoft, Apple, Red Hat, Novell, Sun, Oracle, etc. are successful first by Marketing then by Technology?

The Marketing gets people to look at it, while the technology just has to be good enough to meet their expectations, not be the best or superior.

Under the GUI and hardware shell, an Apple has little difference from a Dell. There's a hard drive, battery (for laptops), motherboard, RAM modules, power supply, connections, video, etc. Apple markets the OS, the fit-togetherness and etc. but at the end of the day it is still a computer. They just package it nicely.

That isn't to say Apple doesn't warrant any of it's reputation for quality, though. Products don't last long when the Marketing is good but the actual product/technology doesn't live up to the hype.

[paulderol]

reccomended long term strategy--join a standards board wherever and whenever you can, and orient their thinking towards actual open standards and practices. Much of M$'s power comes from their flagrant disregard for the spirit of regulatory action, and their massive control over that process.

No need to bash M$, simply prevent them from writing the rules of conduct, and they will settle in where they belong, a position whose relationship to mine is irrelevant, so long as they don't get there by rigging the game.

[Shibblet]

There's no need for Microsoft to fail in order for you to be happy using Ubuntu.

People either love it or hate it... There can be no middle ground. Black or White. One thing can't be "good", it has to be "great!" The other can't be "okay" it has to "suck".

Instead of embrace the benefits, we prefer to dismiss entirety. Instead of accepting, we prefer to dispose.

There was another person in history who taught people to not accept...

[Jimleko211]

Honestly, if you look at the stats, Microsoft is going down. Not because Microsoft is being exposed as the lesser OS (it's the applications and the user that make the experience, not the kernel, at least how I see it), but because Linux and Apple are slowly stealing their market share.

Just a few years ago, Microsoft had what? 95% of the market share? And now it's about 90%. As Ubuntu gets better features, and more compatibility, it grows in user base. Most people who take the plunge rarely leave, and those who do leave express their regrets of leaving, but they prefer the compatibility of Windows.

And that's what it boils down to. Compatibility with your favorite games and programs. Ubuntu has a lot of sound issues, or so I hear, so that should be fixed. And from there, just continue getting better, and letting the user base spread the word about it. Maybe Canonical can put in some money for some sick commercials. I've heard there were some in France and other areas of Europe, but I haven't seen or heard of any in the US, at least not in the mainstream channels such as CNN or The History Channel.

As long as we get better, the rest of the issues will follow suit, and we'll continue to grow. A lot of PC magazines (at least a year ago when I read them) were griping about Window's insecurities and promoted Ubuntu, which I imagine brought a few converts.

As long as we spread the word and get better, maybe get some media coverage, we will eventually reign supreme. That is, until some other upstart OS gets better than us, and knocks us off of the throne.

[MikeTheC]

Well, if you went to Redmond and dug out this huge pit below their corporate campus, you could bring Microsoft down. How far down depends largely on how deep a pit you want to dig.

Also, were you planning on using shovels, or did your plans include powered earth-moving equipment? The reason I ask is that you'll probably find it easier and faster; however, it would be considerably more obvious and therefore you might have to deal with other unforeseen factors, such as irate security guards, etc.

If you do, in fact, dig a pit and have their buildings fall into it, you will need to post photos, otherwise none of us will believe you ("pics or it didn't happen"). We would appreciate it immensely if you could have some professional photographers and even videographers as part of this process so that we can share your pre-incarceration memories of this event.

[Shibblet]

And from there, just continue getting better, and letting the user base spread the word about it.

Carmex is the #1 selling Lip Balm in the US, and does absolutely NO advertising. Word of mouth works.

[Jimleko211]

Carmex is the #1 selling Lip Balm in the US, and does absolutely NO advertising. Word of mouth works.
Exactly. People are more apt to believe their friends and neighbors more than a radio or TV ad, though those help spread the word to the daring individuals who'd try it.

[izizzle]

Hi this is my first post, but I have been an avid Ubuntu user since Dapper. I thought I would start off my first post stating my hatred for Microsoft which you can probably gather from the title :). However, I also wanted to see some opinions on how open source software like Ubuntu (which i my opinion has the best chance out of all the other linux distros) could drastically reduce the control Microsoft on the software world.

I personally believe better gaming and windows emulation would be a big factor, but I would like to know what you think.

Yea no offense, but I don't belive that you've been using Ubuntu since Dapper. Something about your thread threw me off, I wonder what.........

[Shibblet]

Exactly. People are more apt to believe their friends and neighbors more than a radio or TV ad, though those help spread the word to the daring individuals who'd try it.

I got it! If one Ubuntu user get's two people to sign up, and they get two people to sign up, and then those people get two people each to sign up, and so on and so forth... We could have a new pyramid distribution.

Instead of

Ubuntu - Jaunty Jackalope
we could have
Pyrabuntu - Powered Ponzi

:)

And that's how Ubuntu could bring down Microsoft. One pyramid-scheme at a time.

[MikeTheC]

I like the way you think, Shibblet.

[Giant Speck]

Exactly. People are more apt to believe their friends and neighbors more than a radio or TV ad, though those help spread the word to the daring individuals who'd try it.

Reminds me of why Vista is doing so poorly in the marketplace. Microsoft's "Mojave Experiment" showed us that. Many of the people interviewed said they never tried it because they heard from a friend that it sucked.

Now, I'm not saying that Vista is the greatest thing on the face of the planet. In fact, it's far from it. However, a lot of people judge it without even trying it.

[Therion]

Reminds me of why Vista is doing so poorly in the marketplace. Microsoft's "Mojave Experiment" showed us that. Many of the people interviewed said they never tried it because they heard from a friend that it sucked.
MS actually needed to do a study to tell them that word-of-mouth advertising is a huuugely powerful force in the marketplace?

[balloooza]

Hear is the way I see it, if an OS has no issues, then it will rapidly take over the os spectrum, Since all OS's Are Horrible (some more so:), in their own special ways) Then if one witch ever one is in the right place at the right time will win, it is all relitive, I herd this from a friend (not on UF)
Then the IT Department, not the ones that fixed the boxes, the ones that told people to fix the boxes all started loving windows, becuase it was what they used at home, and they could make there little spreadsheet, and type up a document with 4 Distinctive fonts, and that the setup was straight forward and there was no need to type in anything, it all worked right in fromt of your eyesThe reason microsoft took over this place was advertising, You see, Uncle Bill Decided to advertise his OS, and even put it on the "brain" of the computer, so that all you had to do was push the button on the front and everything was going. This os was for the people who could afford the shiny box, and did not have the patiance to assembal an OS, Microsoft, started neglecting the things that made the crowd who favored the good back bone of an os (like unix) in favor of pleasing all, and worked to hard on the outside, this is how it happend, that is my big sentence (I have a problem with grammer) Of why microsoft rules the world.

[ktrnka]

Hatred for M$ has it's place with many Linux users. The people that claim that hatred gets us nowhere are not looking at how the real world works. Hatred spurs aggression which can be used to fuel and recruit more developers. Microsoft (for years) has boxed hardware vendors out from making Linux drivers widely available and therefore significantly reduced/slowed the spread of Linux. I am also incredibly upset with Mono supporters. Microsoft cares for no one other than their own self interest, people that think otherwise are kidding themselves. Neutral feelings towards M$ are for the weak. Neutral people (and countries) get run over and dominated by the more aggressive. Don't believe me? Please see World War II.

GNU/Linux cannot keep a neutral view/feeling towards Microsoft seeing as M$ would rather see Linux destroyed. (Basic Capitalism anyone?)

Many of my fellow GNU/Linux users are very passionate towards it and do not like seeing it being kicked around by a bully.

[MikeTheC]

Now, I'm not saying that Vista is the greatest thing on the face of the planet. In fact, it's far from it. However, a lot of people judge it without even trying it.
Well, I've more than "tried" it, and I still think it sucks rocks compared to Mac OS X and Linux.

Oh, and vis a vis Microsoft, nothing they do any longer surprises me. Disgusts me, perhaps. But surprises? Not by a long shot, my friend.

[utnubuuser]

Yogourt

[pastalavista]

It is even quite difficult to "Boycot Microsoft" because they get their OS on the machine before it even makes it to the store.

[majamba]

i say we hit them with everything we got c4, nuked them with trojans, and worms
Afterall we are patriots

[Giant Speck]

Well, I've more than "tried" it, and I still think it sucks rocks compared to Mac OS X and Linux.

Which is why I tried not to show favor or disfavor of Windows in my post. My point is that you can't really judge something until you try it, whether it be Windows, Linux, Coke Zero, or eating puppies (delicious with honey BBQ, by the way).

You have obviously tried Vista, and therefore can form a valid opinion about it. I applaud you for not relying on the opinions of others to develop your own opinions.

[CJ Master]

Well, if you went to Redmond and dug out this huge pit below their corporate campus, you could bring Microsoft down. How far down depends largely on how deep a pit you want to dig.

Also, were you planning on using shovels, or did your plans include powered earth-moving equipment? The reason I ask is that you'll probably find it easier and faster; however, it would be considerably more obvious and therefore you might have to deal with other unforeseen factors, such as irate security guards, etc.

If you do, in fact, dig a pit and have their buildings fall into it, you will need to post photos, otherwise none of us will believe you ("pics or it didn't happen"). We would appreciate it immensely if you could have some professional photographers and even videographers as part of this process so that we can share your pre-incarceration memories of this event.

First level was easy. Just be careful about the Redmond ninjas.

[Dragonbite]

People either love it or hate it... There can be no middle ground. Black or White. One thing can't be "good", it has to be "great!" The other can't be "okay" it has to "suck".

The only problem about that is that the whole Microsoft universe comprises of different parts: Windows, Visual Studio, .NET, Office, MSN, Joysticks, Webcams, marketing, school donations, certification, and so on...

I am not all that keen on Windows, but so far Visual Studio is the easiest IDE I've used. Office is well ahead of OpenOffice but Ballmer is an idiot!

So, is my opinion "black".. or "white"..


MS actually needed to do a study to tell them that word-of-mouth advertising is a huuugely powerful force in the marketplace?

I'm sure they used that as they could when they were started out. Most upstarts rely on word-of-mouth the help them out even if they don't realize it.

Eventually you get so big that word-of-mouth isn't as important as getting TV spots during the Super Bowl, except maybe to your competitors.

[tsali]

As I've often heard quoted, "If a Devil did not exist, we would have to invent one."

Nothing galvanizes a diverse community more than the identification and vilification of a common enemy. Many despots throughout history have used this technique because it tends to be much more effective in the short term than attempting unity through common vision. No community purpose? Just declare your neighboring community a threat and, viola! - now you have one!

I believe that's why Microsoft is vilified more often than not...to justify an attitude of underdog solidarity...

[Shibblet]

So, is my opinion "black".. or "white"..

Neither, you're one of the few "in-betweeners". Welcome to the club of free thinking. ;)

I like the way you think, Shibblet.

Thanks, I like the way you think too. Are you going to try and sell me Amway now? :P J/K.

[k2t0f12d]

Neither, you're one of the few "in-betweeners". Welcome to the club of free thinking. ;)Are you saying that only persons of whose opinions you approve are free thinkers?

[3startuna]

Are you saying that only persons of whose opinions you approve are free thinkers?

Only complete linux users are free thinkers.

Join the resistance.

[Giant Speck]

Only complete linux users are free thinkers.

Join the resistance.

...

[Dragonbite]

Only complete linux users are free thinkers.

Join the resistance.

Sounds like a cult.

Only people who use "our" single product and actively avoids or plans to destroy any other competing product, despite its merits, are "free thinkers"?

Wow.. Ignorance IS bliss!

[adrianx]

I realise that this does not apply to everyone, but some years ago I forced myself to completely give up Windows. It was really tough in the beginning. I was (and still am) considered an outcast by some. At the time, I was working on quite a big Web project that involved ASP (VBScript), combined with that horrible "dirty code" producing FrontPage piece of rubbish. To this day, I still don't like wysiwyg html generators! Yuck.

I forced myself to learn some PHP, JSP, the basics of SVN (and later GIT), how to configure Apache servers and understanding HTML, CSS, XML... better. Sure, I could have learnt all those things in Windows too, but the incentive wasn't there. Click, click.

So, for me, "closing" my mind a bit actually opened up new opportunities.

Edit: Oh, and the best part... suddenly, I had access to full versions of everything that I needed - for free. No more worries about "Home Edition" or "Student Edition" not doing what I needed it to do. I don't like the idea of pirating software all that much..... ;)

[Dragonbite]

I realise that this does not apply to everyone, but some years ago I forced myself to completely give up Windows. It was really tough in the beginning. I was (and still am) considered an outcast by some. At the time, I was working on quite a big Web project that involved ASP (VBScript), combined with that horrible "dirty code" producing FrontPage piece of rubbish. To this day, I still don't like wysiwyg html generators! Yuck.

I agree with the FrontPage's dirty code. I used it only for layout on the page and then manually did my ASP in the HTML code side. I have only used the FrontPage code once and I'm still ripping it out of the website!

[3startuna]

Sounds like a cult.

Only people who use "our" single product and actively avoids or plans to destroy any other competing product, despite its merits, are "free thinkers"?

Wow.. Ignorance IS bliss!

Convert to Linslam :D

[adrianx]

Convert to Linslam :D
Windows is already a major religion! What are you talking about? I have a Word document that proves it....:D

[x58]

):P I was last year in Boston USA and one moment my Laptop and there Windows Vista just crash and I was at Dilemma what do too. My recovery disk was in my country , but me and my computer was in Boston. So I was use my friends computer and download Linux Ubuntu 8.10 and next it was in my computer. Help about Ubuntu I found at Ubuntu forum and I love it and there I am with Linux Ubuntu 8.10 and I don't think go to dual booting or back install Windows Vista. I am with Ubuntu and will there and if everybody who have Linux his computer will teach and introduce somebody who use Windows operating system, how good is Linux really, then Windows will come down, because you will bring it down, thanks I love Ubuntu - Linux.

[Polaris96]

I like Linux because it's a more elegant system. I wish Microsoft was a bit more ethical, but you really can't criticize them for playing hardball. Look at what Apple is doing with their monopoly on product support. Companies become successful by being aggressive, not by playing fair.

So why fight Microsoft? Like it or not they do provide a lot of good services. If they go, some similar entity, most likely Apple, will fill the gap. It will not be a granola crunching, whale saving, "love-thy-brother" coalition of open source robin hoods with true Ubuntu.

Open source projects don't have the right structure or managerial philosophy to compete with private companies and doing so shouldn't be anybody's goal. Instead, let's just keep tweaking our OS, and keep it alive so interested people can share it. It's a better deal than Windows or OSX or Solaris. People will come in their own time.

Instead of thinking about how to bring down Microsoft, I'm trying to learn as much about this environment as I can. That way, I can come here and help other people who are having problems getting started. Try it. It's really very rewarding. Seek Ubuntu!

[xx58]

:rolleyes: I was visit my friend when my Windows crash, so I install Linux and , when I know it , I stay with Ubuntu Linux, because it that easy. I love just Linux and have install it and keep it in my computer.

[Shibblet]

Are you saying that only persons of whose opinions you approve are free thinkers?

Or his statement didn't fall into extremes... Sounds kind of free to me.

[k2t0f12d]

Or his statement didn't fall into extremes... Sounds kind of free to me.I can't accept your definition of a free thinker. A free thinker should be measured by the manner such a person arrives at their conclusions rather then the conclusion itself, and certainly not whether it seems okay with you. Bona fide free thinkers may have different and conflicting conclusions on the same subject, any of which may or may not seem extreme to any other person. Likewise, an especially consistent lack of extremity in a person's conclusions is far more likely to indicate that they are a person who relies on other people's opinions to guide their own then an extreme opinion does.

[benj1]

i can't accept your definition of a free thinker. A free thinker should be measured by the manner such a person arrives at their conclusions rather then the conclusion itself, and certainly not whether it seems okay with you. bona fide free thinkers may have different and conflicting conclusions on the same subject, any of which may or may not seem extreme to any other person. Likewise, an especially consistent lack of extremity in a person's conclusions is far more likely to indicate that they are a person who relies on other people's opinions to guide their own then an extreme opinion does.

+1

[Polaris96]

"Likewise, an especially consistent lack of extremity in a person's conclusions is far more likely to indicate that they are a person who relies on other people's opinions to guide their own then an extreme opinion does."



Not always true. A consistent lack of extremety can also indicate a stable propositional ethic that values both change and harmony equally. The lack of extremisim in an individual very often illustrates a tendency to put the common good over one's own cravings and the very reasonable postulate that extreme viewpoints often harden the resolve of the opposiition, where a balanced and facile argument allows the potential for reconsideration over conflict.

Extremisim is for children. The rest of us try to work together. We don't always succeed, but we try.

[lswb]

I run only linux on my personal laptop and have no desire to install windows or other MS products. However, if there was no MS or Apple, do you thing linux would have programs like Open Office, banshee, amarok, firefox, or even modern desktops like gnome or KDE? More likely we'd still be using laTex, lpr, sox, elm, and other unix/linux "classics"

[k2t0f12d]

Not always true. A consistent lack of extremety can also indicate a stable propositional ethic that values both change and harmony equally. The lack of extremisim in an individual very often illustrates a tendency to put the common good over one's own cravings and the very reasonable postulate that extreme viewpoints often harden the resolve of the opposiition, where a balanced and facile argument allows the potential for reconsideration over conflict.Out of that I read that the thinker who follows your example will repress their own feelings (or not have any at all) in order to follow popular opinions and not develop their own independently. I agree it is possible that a bona fide free thinking person may arrive at many conclusions that you or I may not consider extreme, just that that is unlikely that a free thinking person will never arrive at any extreme views. If you were correct then we may not have discovered the earth was round, which was an extreme point of view in its infancy.

Extremisim is for children. The rest of us try to work together. We don't always succeed, but we try.Holding extreme views does not preclude cooperation. People who do not agree with you are not by default childish.

[karellen]

watching the last couple of post, I can't help myself and say that, imho, as things are rarely black or white, extremists stances are rigid and inflexible and tend to oversimplify the reality. we're not talking about science here, but just opinions. I personally prefer the middle ground because it gives me a wider perspective over the discussed matter.

[Amilo1718]

MS is already down... how many jobs were lost past months?

[k2t0f12d]

watching the last couple of post, I can't help myself and say that, imho, as things are rarely black or white, extremists stances are rigid and inflexible and tend to oversimplify the reality. we're not talking about science here, but just opinions. I personally prefer the middle ground because it gives me a wider perspective over the discussed matter.I could accept your opinion as that of a person wishing to keep an open mind, however, having an extreme view does not preclude open mindedness, and your claim to keep a so-called "middle ground" position on an issue in order to preserve that open mindness rather then by your deductions is non sequitur. Any stance is as rigid and inflexible as the opinion holder's willingness to consider new facts or evidence about the subject. Anyone's perspective is as wide or narrow as their willingness to do the same. An extreme view only indicates that, after examining the evidence, the thinker concludes something other then the majority. A great deal of so-called "middle ground" opinions here are just as hostile and inflexible as those with extreme points of view.

[Shibblet]

I can't accept your definition of a free thinker. A free thinker should be measured by the manner such a person arrives at their conclusions rather then the conclusion itself, and certainly not whether it seems okay with you. Bona fide free thinkers may have different and conflicting conclusions on the same subject, any of which may or may not seem extreme to any other person. Likewise, an especially consistent lack of extremity in a person's conclusions is far more likely to indicate that they are a person who relies on other people's opinions to guide their own then an extreme opinion does.

I couldn't agree more. My definition wasn't based upon the outcome of any said decision. It's my experience that most "free-thinkers" or "out side the box" style of mentality, always seem to find a happy medium.

Would you agree that a free thinker doesn't come to an extreme "black or white" answer, for the most part?

Here is my inspiration for "free-thinking". Yes, I know it seems childish, but if you ever take the time to read about his life, and his ethics, you'll find someone who made a wholly positive impact on people around him, and the world.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/muppet-2.jpg

"I believe that life is basically a process of growth - that we all go through many lives, choosing those situations and problems that we will learn through." - Jim Henson

I love this little book. (It's Not Easy Being Green, And Other Things to Consider, ISBN-10: 1-4013-2267-0)

But I digress. This is a thread about how to bring down Microsoft.

So I put Jim Henson in a catagory similar to Bill Gates. He took a product (Muppet) and did his absolute best to make it into something people love and enjoy. And to this day, Jim's creations still live on, charming and entertaining the world.

Bill has taken a product and turned it into something that people feel that they "need". A necessity is a hard thing to "love".

The people in this forum love their product. We all know the meaning of Ubuntu. That's why we are community driven, and community maintained, and community developed. And say what you want, this community is open to outsiders, and helpful to new community members, because we love thie product, and helping others.

So I will ask again, why would our community want to see another community fail? We want our product to succeed, wishing another to fail is self-defeating.

[adrianx]

So I will ask again, why would our community want to see another community fail? We want our product to succeed, wishing another to fail is self-defeating.
Allow me to nitpick a bit. I think it is more a case of a tiny community against big business... It is not as if most of the world's population will have to give up computing just because Microsoft failed. Or are you suggesting that there are no alternatives?

[k2t0f12d]

@Shibblet

I'm still not getting how you say that you aren't judging the free thinker by their outcome rather then the method of their thinking and then say that you think a free thinking person will most often arrive at a particular kind of view. I wouldn't agree that free thinking preferencially produces either sharp "black and white" or banal middle of the road answers. I think the more free thinking an individual is the more likely it is that they will hold a greater diversity of views and types of views, and that a group of free thinking persons has the greater likelihood of having more varied and conflicting views.

I don't think that Jim Henson is a childish role model any more then I think Bill Gates is a very good one. The word "product" is an insult to the imagination and brilliance of something like The Muppet Show. Business uses that abstraction to define its salable output. You can see that Jim Henson's contributions are a lot more then just something he came up with to sell.

Bill barely even come up with a product. He bought an operating system program from another programmer and then sold non-free licensing for it bundled with IBM hardware. After getting elevated to a leader position in the market by IBM, he guided Micro$oft to monopoly through anti-competitive agreements like per processor licensing with vendors. After completely dominating the desktop market, Micro$oft introduces changes in their software that don't just make people think they need the software, it enforces their dependence on it.

Even so, I wouldn't say that Micro$oft should be arbitrarily destroyed. There is a significant amount of resources, including human talent, tied up in its enterprise. I would suggest that the company be broken up into at least three separate entities, one for Windows, one (or more) for applications, and one for Internet Explorer. Regardless of whether that ever happened or not, I still couldn't trust their software and wouldn't support it until they relicensed with a free license with offer of source code.

[Phreaker]

We must make Ubuntu controlled cybermen

[HappinessNow]

You will be Assimilated! Resistance is Futile!

[Shibblet]

I'm still not getting how you say that you aren't judging the free thinker by their outcome rather then the method of their thinking and then say that you think a free thinking person will most often arrive at a particular kind of view. I wouldn't agree that free thinking preferencially produces either sharp "black and white" or banal middle of the road answers. I think the more free thinking an individual is the more likely it is that they will hold a greater diversity of views and types of views, and that a group of free thinking persons has the greater likelihood of having more varied and conflicting views.

I tend to view a free thinker as someone who can see the entire picture, based on input and objection, but more so relevant to the decision.

A free thinker isn't bound by opinions of others, but takes them into consideration. And as I consider myself a "free thinker", I would have come to the same conclusion, so therefore, why not him too?

I don't think that Jim Henson is a childish role model any more then I think Bill Gates is a very good one. The word "product" is an insult to the imagination and brilliance of something like The Muppet Show. Business uses that abstraction to define its salable output. You can see that Jim Henson's contributions are a lot more then just something he came up with to sell.

Amen, brother.

Bill barely even come up with a product. He bought an operating system program from another programmer and then sold non-free licensing for it bundled with IBM hardware. After getting elevated to a leader position in the market by IBM, he guided Micro$oft to monopoly through anti-competitive agreements like per processor licensing with vendors. After completely dominating the desktop market, Micro$oft introduces changes in their software that don't just make people think they need the software, it enforces their dependence on it.

Yeah, I remember watching the PBS Special about the "History of Computers". I thought that was hilarious. Bill Gates is a little more like Thomas Edison in that respect... Quite a few things that Edison is credited to making came from when he was working DIRECTLY with Nikola Tesla.

Even so, I wouldn't say that Micro$oft should be arbitrarily destroyed. There is a significant amount of resources, including human talent, tied up in its enterprise. I would suggest that the company be broken up into at least three separate entities, one for Windows, one (or more) for applications, and one for Internet Explorer. Regardless of whether that ever happened or not, I still couldn't trust their software and wouldn't support it until they relicensed with a free license with offer of source code.

Herein lies the rub. If Microsoft offered you (any of you in this thread) a well paying job with benefits and retirement (standard deal at Microsoft), would you turn it down?

No, sir, I would not.