I think it's impossible to NOT use Windows.

[pbpersson]

You know, I'm not a coder, so I'm not sure I understand completely what I am about to say ...

If you write your program in C++, wouldn't it compile for Windows just the same as it would for Linux?

Heavens no! You need to design your software from day one using a platform-independent system in order for it to work on all systems. Take a look at this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-platform) to begin to understand what is involved.

[Shibblet]

Heavens no! You need to design your software from day one using a platform-independent system in order for it to work on all systems. Take a look at this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-platform) to begin to understand what is involved.

Gotcha, then is it more difficult to code platform-independent? I thought that was the whole idea behind Java.

[Chronon]

According to my understanding:

Java is a whole different animal. When you compile it you get "byte-code", which means it's really compiled to run on the Java Virtual Machine, rather than directly on any particular architecture. Porting in Java comes in porting the Java Virtual Machine to a new platform. The compiled byte-code should then run on the new platform.

As long as the libraries you use in C++ exist on each platform you want to compile for, there shouldn't be portability issues. Applications that rely on SDL have been ported far and wide, for instance.

[oldsoundguy]

browsers are platform independent (in a way) but still have to be written to fit various platforms.

There will come a day in the not too distant future when the only thing you need an OS for is turn the computer on and launch a browser as most activities will be done on line (Cloud computing).

On the original thread .. wrong!
I have not used Windows on line in almost 4 years now.
I DO have a windows box to sync my PDA and update the GPS within, run instructional video, and to run photographic programs (such as Tiffen Filter) that run only in Photo Shop .. and that runs only in Windows. (did have to use it for an accounting program as my accountant required such. Not needed now as income sources changed as I broke business ties.)

But for day in day out activities, Linux .. including social networking, usenet and Skype (crippled as it is, it still functions.)

[chappajar]

I am slightly intrigued. What do you do for a living? Does it involve working on a computer that you do not own?

I'm not saying that you can't keep it off of your personal computer. That's simple. But what happens when you need to help a friend out with his computer. What happens when you go to a coffee shop, and just need to check your email?

I'm a (CS) student. Ubuntu at home, Redhat and occasionally OSX at uni, and Android elsewhere.

Uh-oh, here come all the arguments for the word ''use''.Sounds like you might be heading off what you know is a weak part of your argument with this...;)
Yes, I do sometimes help others with Windows problems.
I think you are losing sight of your OP:
Microsoft has truly created a Monopoly. Windows IS a Monopoly on the computer industry. There is nothing that can be done to get away from it.

From internal hardware, peripheral devices, software, etc. There is no way to stay away from Windows.

If you tried, and I mean tried your hardest to only use Ubuntu (Linux) undoubtedly you will, at some point, have a Windows app to run that Wine can't do.

As a graphic designer, I have used Mac's in the past, but the general public always uses Windows, and brings in files made in Publisher, Word, Corel Draw, etc. Not to mention my Roland SC-540II only has Windows based RIP program and drivers.

At work I use Adobe Creative Suite 4, and Wine just CAN'T do it.

Now, this isn't a thread designed to bash Ubuntu (Linux), we all know the performance difference is DRAMATICALLY better in Ubuntu (Linux).

This is a thread asking what can be done to TRULY create an operating system that the entire industry can use (and utilize), and one that would be formidable toward OSX and Windows in the current market.

Competition brings out the best in any product... maybe that's why Windows has so many issues.
A little different from your current stance.

I replied to your OP, but to fit the new definition of ''use'', I'll clarify my position: I don't use any Windows apps for anything.

[c00lwaterz]

When I have problem using linux, I go back to windows for awhile to search the solution in linux. right now it has high temperature issue in karmic and it almost burned. I always use dual boot.

[Neken]

Microsoft has truly created a Monopoly. Windows IS a
Now, this isn't a thread designed to bash Ubuntu (Linux), we all know the performance difference is DRAMATICALLY better in Ubuntu (Linux).

Firefox on linux is DRAMATICALLY slower than on Windows.
I fail to see your point :S

[chappajar]

Firefox on linux is DRAMATICALLY slower than on Windows.
I fail to see your point :S

Not from what I've seen.

[Shibblet]

I'm a (CS) student. Ubuntu at home, Redhat and occasionally OSX at uni, and Android elsewhere.
Nice! Just decided to go back to college myself.

Sounds like you might be heading off what you know is a weak part of your argument with this...;)
I just know how the first time I ran through this people picked apart the use of the work "impossible".

I think you are losing sight of your OP:

Quite possibly. Seeing as how the original post was almost a year ago.

A little different from your current stance.
I would call it more refined. Windows is part of the computer world, no matter where you go. Linux is too for that matter. Even if I am on a Windows machine, and I log on to any website, more than likely it is being hosted on a linux server. The same goes for the latter.

I replied to your OP, but to fit the new definition of ''use'', I'll clarify my position: I don't use any Windows apps for anything.
Good clarification. But if you've ever used MSN or Bing... see where I am going with this...

The original post was more along the lines of being able to cut away from Windows, and have Linux run every app that I choose. Obviously that isn't in the cards.

I do understand more today than I did a year ago, running Intrepid Ibex for the first time. Linux is different. It's not supposed to be Windows. It's an OS all on it's own, and it runs its own applications.

The problem is, all of the software companies are in Microsoft's pocket. And when they keep making multi-million dollar software (Halo 3), there will be no reason for the industry to change.

I read an article today from Hideo Kojima. He is the creator of the Metal Gear Solid games from Konami. He said...
In the near future, we’ll have games that don’t depend on any platform. Gamers should be able to take the experience with them in their living rooms, on the go, when they travel — wherever they are and whenever they want to play. It should be the same software and the same experience.

This is a step in the right direction. This is an open source philosophy. Let the creative minds keep creating, and not be bound by any box.

Call it what you want, but the world has been changed by dreamers and visionaries that learned to create outside the standards of social structure.

http://www.biloxischools.net/schools/beauvoir/mississippi%20abcs/Jim%20henson2.jpg

http://www.obituary.cc/photos/fallen/john_lennon.jpg

http://www.myhero.com/images/artist/mozart/mozart.jpg

[chappajar]

Good clarification. But if you've ever used MSN or Bing... see where I am going with this...

Don't start adding ''if you have ever'' to the thread too....;)
Neither MSN nor Bing is Windows, which is the topic of the thread.

But, I don't use MSN or Bing or any other MS service anyway.

[gs777]

I think yes, only bcoz the world is biased in favor of windows( mainly hardware manufacturers)

[Neken]

Not from what I've seen.

been a while like that :

http://www.tuxradar.com/content/browser-benchmarks-2-even-wine-beats-linux-firefox

one of the reasons :

MSVC is a better optimizing compiler than GCC. It's been that way for rather a while.

[chappajar]

been a while like that :

http://www.tuxradar.com/content/browser-benchmarks-2-even-wine-beats-linux-firefox

one of the reasons :

I'm not trying to argue that that FF is faster in Linux, or even that it isn't slower; just that the difference isn't ''dramatic'' enough to notice.

EDIT: To clarify, when you said ''dramatically'' I assumed that you meant that a casual user would notice the difference.
If you had instead said ''Benchmarks have shown FF is faster on Windows than on Linux'' I wouldn't have replied.

[Shibblet]

I think yes, only bcoz the world is biased in favor of windows( mainly hardware manufacturers)

FUD is the main reason people use Windows. ;)

I have had discussions with people who have given Ubuntu a try, and they have had legitimate problems with it. ATI Driver support being the main one.

Without the knowledge of how Linux works, and what Linux is capable of, you will find most people at a loss.

Bob has an ATI Card, and his video playback flickers. Yes there are solutions, but in Windows, all Bob has to do is download the latest driver, and it works.

Bob also has an iPhone. And the latest iTunes doesn't work in Ubuntu.

Bob just brought a brand new Kodak Printer, it comes with Windows drivers. And CUPS doesn't recognize it.

There are so many reasons why people use Windows. It works with all of their stuff, and nothing is left to question.

I know XP doesn't work OOTB, neither does Ubuntu. Everybody needs to get drivers for their particular hardware. But, there are always Windows drivers. Sometimes there are not Linux drivers.

[mango42]

FUD is the main reason people use Windows.

No it's not! It's because when they buy their first computer, it comes pre-installed with that ultimately cr*ppy mess. At that stage, new computer users often don't have the first clue that there is anything else but Windows! Heck, most people in that situation I have dealt with aren't even aware of what an OS comprises or does (example response "Isn't Internet Explorer my operating system?").

Most of the folks I deal with have just bought a cheapo secondhand laptop with the vague idea that 'getting on the net' is going to solve all their problems (ha ha). That's where I (and many other barely-computerate Linux 'evangelists') step in, waving a shiny Ubuntu LiveCD and keeping a known-to-work-with-Linux WiFi dongle up our sleeves.

So far this approach has worked every time for me since Hardy Heron ;-)

To cut a long story short, I work on a sort of reverse 'Jesuit principle' of 'grab them while they're young and they'll become Linux users for life' ;-)

If new users don't get exposed to Windows until they've had a few months of Ubuntu Linux, from my own experience they never look back. So Catch22. Get to install Linux before they've had to deal with Windows and you've saved yet another individual from the stress of an in-yer-face OS that seems determined to enfold you in its own paranoia and cut-throat marketplace mentality.

As for the OP's "I think it's impossible to NOT use Windows." - it's only 'impossible' to those of a locked-in, brainwashed mindset. There's nothing one can't do just as well (and in many cases far better) in Linux, IMO. iTunes? try Banshee or Rhythmbox! Traktor? - use Mixx - Photoshop? Learn GIMP - it's much nicer to use - Corporate hardware? Bin it and get something with open drivers - etc etc etc ad nauseum.

There are so many reasons why people use Windows. It works with all of their stuff, and nothing is left to question.

You jest, of course? Just try hooking a USB Numark controller up to Traktor LE on an old laptop... I bet by the time you get a working combo, you're locked out of the Native Instrument's "Authentication Process", so the software no longer works anyway! 'nother example, see if you can get the latest wizz-bang Netgear wifi dongles to work out-of-the-box in windows - report success rate on a postcard to Bill Gates...

Like the present global situation - paradigm shift is all it takes to make a better world...Gandhi had it right when he said "Be the change you want to see in the world"

:popcorn:

[Neken]

I'm not trying to argue that that FF is faster in Linux, or even
EDIT: To clarify, when you said ''dramatically'' I assumed that you meant that a casual user would notice the difference.
If you had instead said ''Benchmarks have shown FF is faster on Windows than on Linux'' I wouldn't have replied.

I've used "dramatically" because the OP said "DRAMATICALLY" (sic).

[m4tic]

This might be a shock, but there are plenty people who get by from one year to the next without ever needing to use Windows.
One of them is me.

not me

[sexybeast099]

HAHAHAHAHA!! This entire thread is based on a hilarious premise! I've been slowly finding the linux alternatives to even iTunes and Adobe CS4, which I use often. Since some of you may not have seen this, I point you toward something I found on Stumbleupon.


Proprietary Software (Windows and Mac) and their Open Source versions (much of it is for linux):
http://whdb.com/2008/the-top-50-proprietary-programs-that-drive-you-crazy-and-their-open-source-alternatives/

I just found out that Songbird is going to be discontinued on linux but that doesn't mean that you can't develop it yourself or find a community that will...

EDIT: ...and just as I post this, I find out that the Nightingale project is just that, a forked version of songbird meant to support Linux first and the other platforms second.
http://getnightingale.org/

[bwallum]

Just converted my umpteenth 'client' to Ubuntu. Only had one regression, my son went for dual boot so that he could play windoze games. Ride the wave!

[m4tic]

I'm a mechanical engineering student, the tool i use is solidworks and autocad. They work great and there is really no linux alternative that can do my job. There are but they lack a lot of features. If a mech engineer out of the blue caught the free souftware bug, people's livess will inevitably be in danger. Most of the world revolves around MS, its natural to many to look for a start button on any os they are introduced to, its also natural to someone like me to expect A-grade CAD software

[Chronon]

If a mech engineer out of the blue caught the free souftware bug, people's livess will inevitably be in danger.

Overly dramatic much? You make it seem like any free software CAD will generate incorrect dimensions.

Here's some output from free software:
http://brlcad.org/gallery/d/23-9/stryker_slat.jpg

[m4tic]

Is that brl?
If it is, it lacks behind in many tools,. Design analisis, assembly simulation are some of the most important in the industry. I looked at BRL some time last year and they were the features that were disappointing. Well they can get the job done but the time it takes for them to so...

[nickthrolson]

I agree no need for buggy spammy windows I just need to figure out how to get cs4 master collection on the latest ubuntu os lol.

[Chronon]

Is that brl?
If it is, it lacks behind in many tools,. Design analisis, assembly simulation are some of the most important in the industry. I looked at BRL some time last year and they were the features that were disappointing. Well they can get the job done but the time it takes for them to so...

Sure. That's not what I'm arguing. You made it sound as if it was impossible to create a properly dimensioned model using free software (i.e. "people will lose lives"). I simply wanted to demonstrate that this is false.

[scrapmetal]

Use Duel boot with XPpro, Loading Windos 7 ultimate when have time.
Read this posting from the beginning, so back to work now.
Nice to hear from a cross section of the world, thanks for posting.
Dam, purchased a Tomtom. Have to use XP with it.
To many Ubuntu, Kubuntu etc machines to list specifications.
Love Ubuntu, looking forward to 10.4 LTS.
So it's a vote for the YES I have to use it.

[mango42]

Just pondering on m4tic's comment ... ...its natural to many to look for a start button on any os they are introduced to... ...

Can anyone tell me the 'thinking' behind an OS that requires you to use a 'Start Button' to initiate shut down of a machine? I think this clearly underlines what a bunch of spaghetti windows really is!

And can anyone explain to me why windows often takes longer to shut down than Linux takes to boot up? :confused:

:popcorn: