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View Full Version : Future of gnome-based ubuntu edition after gnome 3.0



Ptero-4
June 3rd, 2009, 09:53 PM
Hi. After reading all about gnome 3.0 and gnome-shell, I was curious about what would happen to the gnome-based ubuntu edition (specially since the gnome-based edition is the main one most new users hear about) when gnome 3.0 is released. And how much of you plan on moving to kubuntu/xubuntu.

mofrikaantje
June 3rd, 2009, 09:53 PM
Could you provide some more information on gnome 3?

SuperSonic4
June 3rd, 2009, 09:56 PM
GNOME 3 is coming out? Didn't know that

*shrugs shoulders*

Arch + KDEmod

From those I picked Kubuntu since I do occasionally test it still

dragos240
June 3rd, 2009, 09:58 PM
Hi. After reading all about gnome 3.0 and gnome-shell, I was curious about what would happen to the gnome-based ubuntu edition (specially since the gnome-based edition is the main one most new users hear about) when gnome 3.0 is released. And how much of you plan on moving to kubuntu/xubuntu.

There will be some sort of PPA available to downgrade GNOME I'm sure.

perlluver
June 3rd, 2009, 09:59 PM
I will stick with Ubuntu, just to see how it runs, and looks. If it does good, I will stay. If it does bad, I will probably move back to Slackware or maybe try another distro.

Viva
June 3rd, 2009, 10:05 PM
What is wrong with Gnome 3?

Phreaker
June 3rd, 2009, 10:22 PM
What's this all about?

[h2o]
June 3rd, 2009, 10:29 PM
Why not make a "Will you move back to Gnome once KDE 5.0 is released?"-poll while you are at it?

CharmyBee
June 3rd, 2009, 10:32 PM
There will be some sort of PPA available to downgrade GNOME I'm sure.

Like there is for KDE?

Regenweald
June 3rd, 2009, 11:42 PM
I really want to just wait and see what the experience is like so i'll hold on to my verdict, but really honestly, I find the 'Activities' thing to be a bit on the silly side. We launch programs, we use them. calling them activities and using multiple desktops is really nothing new. I will wait until further on in the development cycle and see what is 'under the hood'. Zeitgeist looks interesting, but again, I like my folder hierarchy.

Keithhed
June 3rd, 2009, 11:46 PM
I'll probably just stick with what works for me. Current version is fine for my needs.

zekopeko
June 3rd, 2009, 11:47 PM
i'm getting a feeling that a lot of people here don't understand that gnome-shell isn't a completely different usage model then the one we have now in gnome2.
those pictures that you see is gnome3 in is it's "select workspace/open app/recent document" mode. once you click on the workspace you get back to a rather standard looking gnome2 desktop.

gnomeuser
June 3rd, 2009, 11:55 PM
To be honest, I am becoming more and more a fan of specific computing uses such as what Moblin presents rather than a general desktop. I look forward to the technology upgrade presented by GNOME3 but I think the interesting advances will happen outside of GNOME.

I am fairly interested in what Novell have been working on with Moonlight for desktop applications though, Aaron Bockover have some interestingly titled talks at the upcoming GUADEC 2009 conference on Desktop 2.0 application design.

Regardless I think the desktop is largely dead and we should stop focusing so much on it. I love GNOME but I believe it's time we embrace the future.

TheLastDodo
June 4th, 2009, 12:04 AM
What is wrong with Gnome 3?

Well, the current assumption is that gnome-shell will become ingrained into the default UI. As far as I can tell, this means that instead of using menus to launch applications, you'll instead zoom out into a sort of meta desktop and then drag the app you want to launch from a list onto your desktop of choice. A lot of people don't think throwing out an old and useful app-launching paradigm for something new and somewhat annoying is a good idea.

Viva
June 4th, 2009, 12:05 AM
I'm sure it will be customizable. Heck, is anything isn't on linux?:D

CharmyBee
June 4th, 2009, 12:13 AM
Well, the current assumption is that gnome-shell will become ingrained into the default UI. As far as I can tell, this means that instead of using menus to launch applications, you'll instead zoom out into a sort of meta desktop and then drag the app you want to launch from a list onto your desktop of choice. A lot of people don't think throwing out an old and useful app-launching paradigm for something new and somewhat annoying is a good idea.
Yeah well, tell that to the "Linux isn't Windows" people who think avoiding common GUI features everyone is familiar with means for the better of it.

H2SO_four
June 4th, 2009, 12:14 AM
I'll check it out :)

days_of_ruin
June 4th, 2009, 12:20 AM
Well, the current assumption is that gnome-shell will become ingrained into the default UI. As far as I can tell, this means that instead of using menus to launch applications, you'll instead zoom out into a sort of meta desktop and then drag the app you want to launch from a list onto your desktop of choice. A lot of people don't think throwing out an old and useful app-launching paradigm for something new and somewhat annoying is a good idea.

You still get a menu. And you don't have to drag it to launch it.

TheLastDodo
June 4th, 2009, 12:21 AM
Yeah well, tell that to the "Linux isn't Windows" people who think avoiding common GUI features everyone is familiar with means for the better of it.

Yeah, each major OS seems to have its fair share of "change is good, no matter what" types... witness the all the KDE fans telling us to "wait for the next release, it'll be perfect!" Polish is well and good, but throwing out tried and true features for something which seems to require more effort to accomplish the same task is not a good idea.


You still get a menu. And you don't have to drag it to launch it.
Oh? I wasn't aware of this. At the moment, gnome-shell is an optional program that can be run alongside your existing desktop, but from what I've read, this will no longer be an option in Gnome 3.x. Minding linking me to the info that says otherwise, I haven't run across it.

Tipped OuT
June 4th, 2009, 12:24 AM
Well, the current assumption is that gnome-shell will become ingrained into the default UI. As far as I can tell, this means that instead of using menus to launch applications, you'll instead zoom out into a sort of meta desktop and then drag the app you want to launch from a list onto your desktop of choice. A lot of people don't think throwing out an old and useful app-launching paradigm for something new and somewhat annoying is a good idea.

Aww man is that how Gnome 3 will be like? Dang, bye Gnome.. :(

Warpnow
June 4th, 2009, 12:47 AM
I don't like the xubuntu distribution but I might use xfce if I don't like gnome shell.

swoll1980
June 4th, 2009, 12:56 AM
I don't have nearly enough information to make that decision.

zekopeko
June 4th, 2009, 01:18 AM
Aww man is that how Gnome 3 will be like? Dang, bye Gnome.. :(

perhaps you could try it before "danging" it?

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell

P.S. try it with a new user account so not to clutter your install.

zekopeko
June 4th, 2009, 01:25 AM
To be honest, I am becoming more and more a fan of specific computing uses such as what Moblin presents rather than a general desktop. I look forward to the technology upgrade presented by GNOME3 but I think the interesting advances will happen outside of GNOME.

I am fairly interested in what Novell have been working on with Moonlight for desktop applications though, Aaron Bockover have some interestingly titled talks at the upcoming GUADEC 2009 conference on Desktop 2.0 application design.

Regardless I think the desktop is largely dead and we should stop focusing so much on it. I love GNOME but I believe it's time we embrace the future.

i'm confused. how is the desktop dead? elaborate please, really interested in your thoughts.
My perspective:
Interfaces are just being accommodated for the use in this new mobile devices. I'm thinking more along the lines of server-client where the client will be the interface on your hardware of choice. Desktop is just another client with far more power then your average mobile device.

bruce89
June 4th, 2009, 02:23 AM
P.S. try it with a new user so not to clutter your install.

Is that supposed to be irony?

zekopeko
June 4th, 2009, 02:36 AM
Is that supposed to be irony?

haha no! i was thinking more along the lines it messing with metacity. purely tehnical. clean environment and all that stuff. it was suggested to me so i'm simply repeating a reasonable policy.

wersdaluv
June 4th, 2009, 02:36 AM
How do we decide now if the thing doesn't exist yet? :|

bruce89
June 4th, 2009, 02:38 AM
How do we decide now if the thing doesn't exist yet? :|

git clone git://git.gnome.org/gnome-shell perhaps.

Anyway, the changes in GNOME 3.0 will be a lot smaller than those of KDE 4.0. GNOME Shell may not even be the final shell/WM.

zekopeko
June 4th, 2009, 03:09 AM
How do we decide now if the thing doesn't exist yet? :|

i posted a link a couple of post up/before.

Ewingo401
June 4th, 2009, 03:24 AM
Based purely on screen shots it doesn't look that bad to me. Change isn't always a bad thing. But if it does turn out to be colossal failure, I suppose I would give KDE a chance to win a place on my computer.

oedipuss
June 4th, 2009, 03:46 AM
This is about all the fuss with compiz and the gnome-shell panel, isn't it?

It's a bit early to jump ship, I think..
I'm sure by the time gnome 3 is released, the issue will be moot one way or another.

The zoom-out-to-launch-anything feature would be somewhat inconvenient, but I can't believe there won't be any other quicker way to launch programs or documents, if you know what you're looking for. If there isn't there's always gnome-do :P

don_quixote
June 4th, 2009, 04:55 AM
If some drastic rethinking doesn't occur, I'll be moving to XFCE.

[h2o]
June 4th, 2009, 06:26 AM
perhaps you could try it before "danging" it?

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell

P.S. try it with a new user account so not to clutter your install.
Not neccessary. The build script builds an executable which you can from your home directory and replaces metacity. As soon as you close Gnome Shell ordinary Metacity will restart and everything is back to normal.

lovinglinux
June 4th, 2009, 06:47 AM
This is about all the fuss with compiz and the gnome-shell panel, isn't it?

It's a bit early to jump ship, I think..
I'm sure by the time gnome 3 is released, the issue will be moot one way or another.

The zoom-out-to-launch-anything feature would be somewhat inconvenient, but I can't believe there won't be any other quicker way to launch programs or documents, if you know what you're looking for. If there isn't there's always gnome-do :P

I saw the videos and think there are too many clicks to get what you want. I have a combination of Compiz plugins, awn and easystroke that allows me to be much more productive than what I saw on those videos.

What is the fuzz about compiz? They will kill it?

listener
June 4th, 2009, 07:00 AM
I have read some about the future of Gnome, and a little googling
makes it obvious that Gnome is under a lot of pressure (at least
as I see it) to compete with KDE. I feel that what people don't
realize is that if Gnome users wanted KDE, they'd have KDE. I
don't know a lot about what will be coming, but it makes me feel
uneasy. Add to that, the companies which have lately placed so
much money into Gnome ('donations') and I feel more uneasy. Could
be just me, though.

I hate to see us compete with KDE and Aero and such. I like
Gnome pretty much like it is. I've tried XFCE and should the
changes to Gnome prove to be overwhelming for me, I like XFCE
quite a bit.

oedipuss
June 4th, 2009, 06:15 PM
I saw the videos and think there are too many clicks to get what you want. I have a combination of Compiz plugins, awn and easystroke that allows me to be much more productive than what I saw on those videos.

What is the fuzz about compiz? They will kill it?

I think the effects in those videos are just very temporary examples. First of all, they 're too slow for them to be anything other than that. I'm sure a great part of the shell will be customizable, if not officially then with other config tools.
Other than that, I don't see much difference in searching a cluttered System menu (for example) for something I don't remember it's name, and zooming out to 'Activities'.
Both are equally annoying if I know what I want to launch, or if it's something I'm using regularly. But then I wouldn't open it through the menus anyway. There are other things for that, such as docks, easystroke etc, which can still theoretically be used in gnome-shell, if it doesn't support something like that on its own.

The issue with compiz was that the panel will be integrated in gnome-shell's window manager, and unavailable to compiz. See this thread : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1114918

What I'm curious about is how gnome-shell will perform when compositing isn't available, or when it's undesirable.

dragos240
June 4th, 2009, 07:48 PM
Like there is for KDE?

Yep.

pbrane
June 4th, 2009, 08:36 PM
I just built and ran gnome-shell. It's not so bad considering it's an "experiment-in-progress". I think that by the time it's ready to be distributed most of the issues will have been worked out. The true transparency is pretty neat.

lovinglinux
June 4th, 2009, 09:55 PM
;7397551']Not neccessary. The build script builds an executable which you can from your home directory and replaces metacity. As soon as you close Gnome Shell ordinary Metacity will restart and everything is back to normal.

I tried it on my user account and didn't like it. How do I completely purge this thing from my system?


The issue with compiz was that the panel will be integrated in gnome-shell's window manager, and unavailable to compiz. See this thread : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1114918

Thanks for the link. I read it all and I'm kind of freaking out. I think I will put my VirtualBox in action again and try other Desktop Environments or even other distros. I know that it is to soon to start panicking, but one of the reasons I switched to Linux was exactly because I didn't like the path Windows was heading with Vista. So, if Gnome-shell will be the future of Gnome, then I will certainly search for alternatives as soon as I can.

It's seems to me that XFCE would be the best choice, due to the modularity approach. I don't like KDE. What alternatives do I have? I don't want to loose the ability to run Compiz and I prefer to switch the Desktop Environment rather than giving up on it.

Mazza558
June 4th, 2009, 10:11 PM
The shame is, Gnme could have tried something revolutionary but still usable. What they've actually done is create something which actually makes it harder to launch apps, despite being easier to organise programs on it.

KDE's looking more and more like the spiritual successor to gnome, as crazy as it sounds - at the moment, KDE4 is far more like the current iteration of Gnome that Gnome 3 is. By the time Gnome 3 is finished, KDE will be as polished as gnome is at the moment - and gnome needs to really improve its situation if it is to succeed.

[h2o]
June 4th, 2009, 10:26 PM
I tried it on my user account and didn't like it. How do I completely purge this thing from my system?
Remove the following files/directories

Source/jhbuild
gnome-shell
bin/jhbuild
bin/install-check
gnome-shell-build-setup.sh

Exactly where they are depends on where you installed to. Mine were in my home directory.
The installation might also have pulled some packaged from the Ubuntu repos. I can unfortunately not tell you which you are not using, so youšll just have to figure it out yourself :)

lovinglinux
June 4th, 2009, 11:09 PM
;7401162']Remove the following files/directories

Source/jhbuild
gnome-shell
bin/jhbuild
bin/install-check
gnome-shell-build-setup.sh

Exactly where they are depends on where you installed to. Mine were in my home directory.
The installation might also have pulled some packaged from the Ubuntu repos. I can unfortunately not tell you which you are not using, so youšll just have to figure it out yourself :)

Thanks. They were exactly on the same place. The installation process downloaded some packages, but Synaptic history doesn't show them. So I guess I will have to leave them installed.

Anyway, aside from additional packages, it doesn't install any files on system folders right, just on the home directory?

Vostrocity
June 4th, 2009, 11:10 PM
I'm totally ready for something radical. Open source software is generally very conservative.

SomeGuyDude
June 4th, 2009, 11:31 PM
I find it weird that when KDE4 was on the horizon every post was about how it was going to revolutionize computers forever. Gnome3? This.

wersdaluv
June 5th, 2009, 12:42 AM
git clone git://git.gnome.org/gnome-shell perhaps.

Anyway, the changes in GNOME 3.0 will be a lot smaller than those of KDE 4.0. GNOME Shell may not even be the final shell/WM.
@bruce89 and zekopeko

I was referring to the final release. Yeah, we can obtain a copy from git but that's not yet really _the_ GNOME 3.0. We still have to wait and see how it matures to an official release before we can make such judgements that the OP is looking for.

Polygon
June 5th, 2009, 12:46 AM
i hope there will be a way to use an older interface? it seems stupid that they are betting the entire future on gnome on a highly experimental and very......not well received interface. I mean, from the screenshots ive seen , it looks horrible and confusing.

days_of_ruin
June 5th, 2009, 12:51 AM
I think gnome-shell could be really cool if it let you have launchers
on the panel. And change workspaces without having to use the overlay.
It is still in early development and a lot could change.

Everyone here should make their opinions heard on the gnome-shell
mailing list: http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list

T2manner
June 5th, 2009, 02:07 AM
Just from reading the opening statements about Gnome 3.0, it seems like they're making Gnome 3.0 the way the Community wants it. So, if the majority of the people in the community want Gnome a certain way, then that means that the majority of the people will stick with Gnome..
So, it would make sense that most people using Ubuntu, wouldn't move to Kubuntu, or Xubuntu.

Ptero-4
June 5th, 2009, 02:21 AM
To be honest, I am becoming more and more a fan of specific computing uses such as what Moblin presents rather than a general desktop. I look forward to the technology upgrade presented by GNOME3 but I think the interesting advances will happen outside of GNOME.

I am fairly interested in what Novell have been working on with Moonlight for desktop applications though, Aaron Bockover have some interestingly titled talks at the upcoming GUADEC 2009 conference on Desktop 2.0 application design.

Regardless I think the desktop is largely dead and we should stop focusing so much on it. I love GNOME but I believe it's time we embrace the future.

I don't quite like this whole "uncustomizable, productive" Desktop 2.0.


i'm getting a feeling that a lot of people here don't understand that gnome-shell isn't a completely different usage model then the one we have now in gnome2.
those pictures that you see is gnome3 in is it's "select workspace/open app/recent document" mode. once you click on the workspace you get back to a rather standard looking gnome2 desktop.

I did install and use gnome-shell and the "standard looking" desktop is only superficially "standard looking", as soon as you try to add/remove applets, or rearrange the panel. You'll see that the panel is pretty static.


Well, the current assumption is that gnome-shell will become ingrained into the default UI. As far as I can tell, this means that instead of using menus to launch applications, you'll instead zoom out into a sort of meta desktop and then drag the app you want to launch from a list onto your desktop of choice. A lot of people don't think throwing out an old and useful app-launching paradigm for something new and somewhat annoying is a good idea.

I think it's a bad idea what the gnome devs are doing.


I'm sure it will be customizable. Heck, is anything isn't on linux?:D

Currently it's not customizable at all.


I saw the videos and think there are too many clicks to get what you want. I have a combination of Compiz plugins, awn and easystroke that allows me to be much more productive than what I saw on those videos.

What is the fuzz about compiz? They will kill it?

They will replace it with "mutter". But I'm sure it will only include those features that are considered "boring"/"productive", and all the bling will be left out.

Dawei87
June 5th, 2009, 02:31 AM
well, i guess all i can say is it seems interesting. i'll be willing to try it although im not too excited for it. it looks like overlay mode will be more or less optional for people who dont want it. what im curious about is the whole compiz thing. i know a lot of users who have become addicted to having a desktop cube arent going to like the switch to a complete gnome 3, so is gnome working on making a full 3d desktop acceleration experience? like with opn/close effects and all? i know enlightenment had problems working with compiz and now they have written their own desktop effects that work just the same. will gnome follow suit? does anyone know? the gnomeshell site just talks about launching applications and doesnt really discuss anything about desktop effects. im interested to hear about what they do

Chilli Bob
June 5th, 2009, 02:42 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQUuH2dIFHM

Based on that video it looks like a pointless add-on to make life harder. I think the problem is that Gnome has reached just about the perfect DE, but people are still wanting change for the sake of change, so we get things like this. It feels like dumbing down to me.

Anyhoo, if it comes in and I don't like it, I will just switch to something like Openbox, JWM or Icewm, and copy one of the setups on the Puppy Linux Puplets pages. Fast and effective beats bling for me.

fleaaccela
June 5th, 2009, 02:46 AM
i dunno. i've only been using ubuntu for a little over 2 weeks. i tried other stuff like kde when i first installed ubuntu, but i didn't like it and reinstalled ubuntu. i also tried ubuntu studio but it was far from stable on my machine.

i quite like gnome how it is right now. rhythmbox is the biggest draw to it. i've never used a media player i liked more for music.

of course, i definitely will be trying the newest version of gnome as a fresh install on a seperate hard drive just to check it out. as of right now though, i may stick to whatever version of gnome that comes out of the box with 9.04 jaunty. i'm still getting used to driving this monster.

don_quixote
June 5th, 2009, 03:55 AM
i quite like gnome how it is right now. rhythmbox is the biggest draw to it. i've never used a media player i liked more for music.

You might also like Banshee, although its Achilles' heel is the lack of support for gapless playback.

days_of_ruin
June 5th, 2009, 04:50 AM
You might also like Banshee, although its Achilles' heel is the lack of support for gapless playback.

It has more bugs than RB too. Otherwise it would be my main media player.

[h2o]
June 5th, 2009, 06:54 AM
Anyway, aside from additional packages, it doesn't install any files on system folders right, just on the home directory?
Not that I am aware of.

Rackstar
June 14th, 2009, 04:36 PM
I'll hold my opinion until I use it for myself. I like something daring, but it should make life easier.

Does anybody know how the gnome shell will react on me plugging my laptop onto a 22" and twinviewing it?

super.rad
June 14th, 2009, 04:39 PM
I'm a KDE user anyway, spent a lot of time using gnome and don't dislike it but just feel KDE is moving forwards a lot quicker and really like what KDE4 has to offer. I don't like what I've seen of gnome-shell/gnome3 but thought I would build it and give it a fair try (although it's nowhere near stable yet so will retry once it's released) but it was completely unusable for me without compositing enabled (something which the opensource ati drivers don't yet support for my card).
I highly doubt it will make me switch from KDE once it's released though

MasterNetra
June 14th, 2009, 05:12 PM
I suppose I could live with it if its just a desktop SELECTION method but not if that how its going to look at login and in general use, Just doesn't seem practical that way. Although if still more stable then KDE I'll probably just use 2.28 until either A: KDE becomes as stable as gnome, B: They make that new thing optional in the next gnome release after. OR C: Something better comes along.

Rackstar
June 14th, 2009, 05:20 PM
I can't believe the GNOME developers won't have reasons for these changes, does anybody know them?

Dimitriid
June 14th, 2009, 06:30 PM
It looks just fine to me, very usable and convenient for people on widescreen displays. I'll use it, if I don't like it or its unstable or resource hungry I will just use LXDE and thats it.

JordyD
June 14th, 2009, 06:37 PM
I'll hold my opinion until I use it for myself. I like something daring, but it should make life easier.

Does anybody know how the gnome shell will react on me plugging my laptop onto a 22" and twinviewing it?

I'd like to know this too. I have two 1280x1024 monitors with Xinerama.

mikewhatever
June 14th, 2009, 08:29 PM
I think Gnome 3 was a dumb idea in the first place. Why? Well, does it matter how you number it? And what's wrong with Gnome 2.30? It seems that the idea of gnome 3 was inspired by kde4 move, which basically was this: 'Let's bump the version number by 1, break everything and declare it stable'
I sincerely hope that gnome devs are not going to make the same mistakes.

The poll is premature, to say the least. I don't want to be too negative (you know, working on my stile ;)), so the following observation should suffice. How is anyone to answer these questions before trying gnome3 and the contemporary options, none of which yet exist.

chucky chuckaluck
June 14th, 2009, 08:35 PM
i'll be going back to punch cards shortly after i announce i'm leaving.

kc3
June 14th, 2009, 08:59 PM
This is about all the fuss with compiz and the gnome-shell panel, isn't it?

It's a bit early to jump ship, I think..
I'm sure by the time gnome 3 is released, the issue will be moot one way or another.

The zoom-out-to-launch-anything feature would be somewhat inconvenient, but I can't believe there won't be any other quicker way to launch programs or documents, if you know what you're looking for. If there isn't there's always gnome-do :P

I think it sounds pretty cool and I'm definitely excited to at least see it :D

Mark76
June 14th, 2009, 09:04 PM
i'll be going back to punch cards shortly after i announce i'm leaving.
I have assembled a steam powered difference engine in my living room and will be using that.

danbuter
June 14th, 2009, 10:37 PM
I find it weird that when KDE4 was on the horizon every post was about how it was going to revolutionize computers forever. Gnome3? This.

That's because a lot of us thought KDE4 was too revolutionary. And we turned to gnome. Now it's going to try the same crap.

markharding557
June 14th, 2009, 11:03 PM
i think gnome is excellent as it is why reinvent the wheel?

CharmyBee
June 14th, 2009, 11:03 PM
I can't believe the GNOME developers won't have reasons for these changes, does anybody know them?

Because "Linux isn't Windows". Any common interface feature must be vanquished for the sake of detaching itself from resembling "the evil micro$oft O$" in any way.

As a result, i've moved to xfce.

23meg
June 14th, 2009, 11:16 PM
Because "Linux isn't Windows". Any common interface feature must be vanquished for the sake of detaching itself from resembling "the evil micro$oft O$" in any way.

[citation needed]

dmitrijledkov
June 15th, 2009, 10:41 AM
The default set of applications in gnome no longer meets my requirements. The things I did use Banshee/Gnome-Do made it more usuable but not good enough (notification area still required a panel, and while gnome-do has good plugins the window-managing-taskbar was not good enough). In addition for any effect you need compiz. But the recent intel issues pushed me to try alternatives. So I've tried Kubuntu for the first time (4.2). Looks awesome, taskbar, menu launcher + krunner cover about 80% of the things I was doing with gnome-do. But this combo actually looks nice and doesn't screw up notifications/taskbar. And plasma actually IMHO is way better for the new desktop metaphora. I did add a few widgets and then thought about the whole display files in Desktop/ on my desktop as being useless (i can access it way better and more efficient without minimizing all windows switching to a new desktop) and I've deleted the dektop/ representation all together. My screen now looks very clean, beutiful and functional. And thanks for the KDE effects I still have the cube ;-)

BTW majority of the Gnome 3 is not Zeitgeist+Shell. It is about cleaning up useless cruft out of GDK and braking backwards compatibility. Lot's of API is being retired with Gnome 3 (Bonobo, glade and others i'm not aware of). I keep gnome around but my default session is KDE 4.2 for now. I'll wait for Gnome 3.2 and I'll compare it to KDE 4.7 (or 8) and we'll see what I will use. But that's in two years *yawn*

jespdj
June 15th, 2009, 11:54 AM
I wonder why so many people complain about GNOME 3. I bet that 99.9% of the people that are complaining haven't used GNOME Shell and hardly even know what it is. They are just complaining because they are conservative and insecure about changes to GNOME.

I have no experience with the new GNOME 3 features myself, but let's just wait to see what it will be like before moaning about it!

There are some videos of GNOME Shell on YouTube. It looks interesting.

lovinglinux
June 15th, 2009, 12:03 PM
I wonder why so many people complain about GNOME 3. I bet that 99.9% of the people that are complaining haven't used GNOME Shell and hardly even know what it is. They are just complaining because they are conservative and insecure about changes to GNOME.

I guess I'm among the other 0.1%, because I have tested it, but it still sucks. I like changes and I had my share of conflicts trying to implement new technologies on a company I worked. Nevertheless, I don't see the point of changing things for worse.

abhilashm86
June 15th, 2009, 12:39 PM
why there is kde and gnome, can't they merge and produce good things and effects?? what you people think on that??

zgornel
June 15th, 2009, 01:08 PM
why there is kde and gnome, can't they merge and produce good things and effects?? what you people think on that??

People have their egos and the development platforms differ quite a lot.

k2t0f12d
June 15th, 2009, 01:09 PM
why there is kde and gnome, can't they merge and produce good things and effects?? what you people think on that??GNOME is written in C, and KDE is written in C++ for one.

AICollector
June 15th, 2009, 03:08 PM
As I said in another thread;

I dont like it, it takes up a third of my screen. What is the functional use of multiple desktops? I either use them for showing off, outputting them to another moniter, or leaving apps on them like Evolution (which I do because they can't just sit in the systray)

Being zoomed out and able to launch new apps means you can't see the text on the screen. It also adds to the time required to launch new apps, as one has to zoom out to do so, then zoom back in again. This is completely useless for one desktop. Detrimental, in fact.

Dimitriid
June 15th, 2009, 03:17 PM
I wouldn't worry, if there is enough people that dislikes Gnome-shell and there is no way to remove it for an alternative im sure somebody will fork the entire GNU-Gnome proyect and thats that.

Viva
June 15th, 2009, 04:44 PM
I wonder why so many people complain about GNOME 3. I bet that 99.9% of the people that are complaining haven't used GNOME Shell and hardly even know what it is. They are just complaining because they are conservative and insecure about changes to GNOME.

I have no experience with the new GNOME 3 features myself, but let's just wait to see what it will be like before moaning about it!

There are some videos of GNOME Shell on YouTube. It looks interesting.

Seconded. There was a similar panic when Awesomebar was used in firefox3. Now it is something most users can't live without.

Rackstar
June 15th, 2009, 06:34 PM
It had been a long time since I saw the screen-casts and looked it up on youtube.

But the latest casts on youtube look nice, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MkBSF4I5lw

They added a left bar, which seems handy in some way and it seems very customizable.

Positive: As more and more people are using wide screens, it is rather stupid placing everything in horizontal bars, which take a lot of space. It's good that they place it on the side.

Mostly our applications don't require the full width, and we need to endlessly scroll down when viewing websites etc.

With this in mind, I suggest they merge the two horizontal bars into one. I know I can do this myself.

tgpraveen
June 16th, 2009, 04:29 PM
somebody please make appa of gnome shell so that those of us who cant/wont compile can also see it.

AICollector
June 16th, 2009, 08:16 PM
Dammit! Just been playing with KDE in case this all goes belly up and I need to pull out until GNOME changes their minds.

KDE 4.2.1 in Kubuntu 9.04, not good; knetworkmanager is screwed, can't connect to my network AT ALL. (just asks for passwords twice, then fails to connect without even trying)

I tried 3.5...very good, I'm impressed. Shame it can't even read my wireless hardware, though, so a bit stuffed there as well! ARGH!

legolas_w
June 16th, 2009, 08:30 PM
Hi
Can some one please let me know when will this new version come out?
Do they plan to integrate compiz into Gnome distribution or it stays as 3rd party application?

thanks.

lovinglinux
June 16th, 2009, 08:36 PM
Hi
Can some one please let me know when will this new version come out?
Do they plan to integrate compiz into Gnome distribution or it stays as 3rd party application?

thanks.

It will take some time to come out and they will have a transitional version, in which Gnome Shell will be optional.

You won't be able to use Compiz without loosing some gnome functionality, including the panels. It seems that Gnome will have it's own window manager with compositing capabilities, but it won't be like Compiz I guess.

This really sucks, because compiz increases my productivity and makes a lot of stuff easier for me.

[h2o]
June 16th, 2009, 08:40 PM
This really sucks, because compiz increases my productivity and makes a lot of stuff easier for me.
Yeah, and since Gnome Shell is totally ready and done right now you already know that it won't make you productive when finished. Right? ;)

koleoptero
June 17th, 2009, 11:38 AM
If it's resource-demanding I will be moving to something like lxde or xfce. If not then I'll be sticking with ubuntu. I bet that when it comes out people will cry about how better gnome 2 was, and after a couple of years it will be the norm again.

AICollector
June 17th, 2009, 01:28 PM
If I have to relearn the desktop metaphor I might as well do so with KDE 4.

Let's hope that 4.3 will be stable, eh?

longtom
June 17th, 2009, 02:20 PM
I guess I'll follow my standard procedure. Wait until it comes out, wait another 3 months for the worst snags to be repaired, install it somewhere to have a look.
If I like it more than what I have now I use it, if not, I don't. Isn't that what Linux is all about?

LoloftheRings
June 30th, 2009, 10:40 PM
I'm currently trying gnome-shell and I think I don't like it..

I do like the quick launch buttons at the left, but I never really used virtual workspaces so I guess I'll never get used to gnome 3.0.

LoloftheRings
June 30th, 2009, 10:41 PM
If it's resource-demanding I will be moving to something like lxde or xfce. If not then I'll be sticking with ubuntu. I bet that when it comes out people will cry about how better gnome 2 was, and after a couple of years it will be the norm again.

It's currently resource demanding, it even requires a composited desktop.

Tipped OuT
June 30th, 2009, 11:13 PM
It's currently resource demanding, it even requires a composited desktop.

Meh, sounds good to me. Time to move on, and get with the times. 8)

Superkoop
July 1st, 2009, 12:56 AM
Well it looks like a nice initiative to actually try acquiring a competitive desktop. Because with the screens becoming wider and wider I believe vertical is the way to go, however I don't think Gnome-Shells is the solution. Because a large number of workspaces is only useful to so many people, the vast majority of users only need one - I personally only need 3-4, though I usually only need one. So designing an interface around workspaces seems foolish, workspaces are secondary to applications.
If GNOME wants to do some changing, I recommend continuing work on attractive vertical bars, along with simplifying it. Gnome-Do has a very interesting and useful interface, quickly allowing the user to get at what they want. The interface should be a mixture of being able to use the keyboard solely if one wishes, or using the mouse solely if one wishes.

Personally, Gnome-Do does what I need - however once KDE 4 matures a bit more (probably 4.3) I believe that is where I will be migrating towards. But I'll see where GNOME 3 goes, there's quite a bit of time before then, perhaps after GNOME 3 matures it will be quite nice. :)

fredbird67
August 9th, 2009, 09:23 PM
For three years, I was a purely KDE guy. My first introduction to Linux was Mandrake, and I enjoyed it. I eventually moved on to Mepis, and then PCLinuxOS. At one point, I had tried Kubuntu, but I didn't care for it at all.

But that was all before KDE rolled out version 4. I tried it once, and to me, it was an example of fixing something that wasn't even broken in the first place. KDE 3.5.x was great, but I found KDE 4 very confusing to use, slow, and basically, it drove me to GNOME and Xfce, where I had never even been a GNOME fan at all up until that point.

As for GNOME version 3, I'm willing to give it a chance, like I did KDE 4. But if I find GNOME 3 to be a pain like KDE 4, I'll be switching to Xubuntu, even though I have 1 GB of RAM on here.

CJ Master
August 9th, 2009, 09:29 PM
For three years, I was a purely KDE guy. My first introduction to Linux was Mandrake, and I enjoyed it. I eventually moved on to Mepis, and then PCLinuxOS. At one point, I had tried Kubuntu, but I didn't care for it at all.

But that was all before KDE rolled out version 4. I tried it once, and to me, it was an example of fixing something that wasn't even broken in the first place. KDE 3.5.x was great, but I found KDE 4 very confusing to use, slow, and basically, it drove me to GNOME and Xfce, where I had never even been a GNOME fan at all up until that point.

As for GNOME version 3, I'm willing to give it a chance, like I did KDE 4. But if I find GNOME 3 to be a pain like KDE 4, I'll be switching to Xubuntu, even though I have 1 GB of RAM on here.

KDE 4.3 != KDE4. Give the latest version a chance. :) And, might I add, don't try Kubuntu. Try Mandrivia KDE.

Tipped OuT
August 9th, 2009, 09:34 PM
KDE 4.3 != KDE4. Give the latest version a chance. :) And, might I add, don't try Kubuntu. Try Mandrivia KDE.

I would like to, but I really do not want give up my Mac OS X theme I have with Gnome. I like doing fresh installs, so if I ever do try out the new KDE, I'll be installing a fresh copy of Kubuntu 9.04.

steveneddy
August 9th, 2009, 09:42 PM
From what I've seen so far I really like Gnome 3.0.

I really want the UI to go into uncharted territory, and thiks is a good start.

Someone work on the Iron Man computer interface.

I'll be a tester.

legolas_w
August 10th, 2009, 12:00 PM
Anyone using Gnome 3, can you please share some screenshot?
Is it possible to install gnome 3 on ubuntu 9.04 safely and without loosing already installed default gnome?

Thanks

t0p
August 10th, 2009, 12:23 PM
How do we decide now if the thing doesn't exist yet? :|

I dunno. Toss a coin or summat?

But make no mistake: you must make your choice now, before Gnome 3 is released. The option you choose in the poll will be binding. No changing your mind at the last second.

t0p
August 10th, 2009, 12:33 PM
Because with the screens becoming wider and wider I believe vertical is the way to go

Uh, dont you mean horizontal? Surely vertical is the way you'd go if monitors were getting taller not wider?

Anyway, if the new interface makes it easier to use the keyboard instead of the mouse, i will be only too pleased to give it a serious trial. I dislike using the mouse for everything while in a gui, but i can never get used to the (often inconsistent) key bindings.

hessiess
August 10th, 2009, 03:11 PM
Uh, dont you mean horizontal? Surely vertical is the way you'd go if monitors were getting taller not wider?

Anyway, if the new interface makes it easier to use the keyboard instead of the mouse, i will be only too pleased to give it a serious trial. I dislike using the mouse for everything while in a gui, but i can never get used to the (often inconsistent) key bindings.

just use a tiling wm.

Orlsend
August 10th, 2009, 03:45 PM
what is wrong with gnome 3?

1+

gjoellee
August 10th, 2009, 03:46 PM
To early to say for me. There is not yet any development version of GNOME 3.0. (I have to try it before I decide)

Methuselah
August 10th, 2009, 09:19 PM
Wow, so many people like to complain!
I can't wait to see what Gnome3 will be like.
I didn't even use KDE3 and I followed up on KDE4 every week.
The possibilities inherent in change are exciting.

If it's too buggy in the beginning you just wait until it gets better (or better yet contribute if you can).
Meanwhile the earlier version will likely be supported during the transition period.

chessnerd
August 10th, 2009, 09:51 PM
I would have to try it out first and see if it caused any problems for me. If it did, I'd go back to Xubuntu, which is the first Linux disto I used.

My guess is that Gnome 3 will be like the new Windows 7 interface. Some people will love it, others will hate it, and other won't care. Those that hate Gnome 3 can go elsewhere. That's why there are many desktop environment out there: to give people a choice.

Exodist
September 29th, 2009, 08:28 AM
I am more the likely going to go KDE (kubuntu). The Gnome3 Shell looks like a cluttered, very inefficient head ache. At least with KDE I can still make it look like the default Gnome we have today!

gnomeuser
September 30th, 2009, 05:19 PM
I will use the gnome-shell over my cold dead body. It is so counterproductive to my workflow. It's slow and gets in the way, I disagree strongly with the choice of implementation language (for security, performance and lack of standardization reasons).

The rest of GNOME 3 I do kinda like, cleaning up the libraries and I do agree with the need to rethink the interaction model. I like the idea of merging gnome-packagekit and letting developers rely on that functionality, I like using webkit.. all the backend stuff is really shaping up to be an impressive set of improvements. The discussion on the use of applets I found to be very constructive and there definitely are some good ideas for making this better .

I think there is ample room to embrace the new modes of computing we see now, netbooks, nettops, specialized computing over the aim to create one general purpose desktop.

I will use GNOME 3, the foundation but gnome-shell is not getting near my machine. I have given it an honest try including forcing myself to live with it for a full week but I just find it so frustrating it is beyond words.

Boom!!!
September 30th, 2009, 07:47 PM
I have a stupid question, but relevant to me.

When Gnome 3.0 is released will it be/use GTK3 as opposed to GTK2.

Perturbed Penguin
January 10th, 2010, 10:59 PM
I will not vote until I have tried it in its 'final' form... but if Gnome3 ends up keeping its current retarded interface I will NOT be using Gnome at that point. The other changes being made are fabulous, it is just the interface I greatly dislike. I suspect though that the interface will, over time, and before its final release, be adapted to something much more reasonable and in fact will probably end up being a wonderful desktop environment. That being said, I am NOT joking around when I say I refuse to use Gnome-shell or Gnome3 as it currently stands - also I want my Compiz effects not Mutter!

MoebusNet
January 11th, 2010, 01:30 AM
What I like best about Ubuntu and Linux in general is that I have the freedom to make choices about things like the GUI. If Gnome 3 increases the options available to me, I'm all for it; if it attempts to lock me into something I can't change (or makes it too difficult) I'll drop it like a bad habit. The world of FOSS is full of distros because they offer us choices. I'll reserve judgment until I see a finished version.

k64
January 11th, 2010, 01:34 AM
If you want more information on the GNOME 3 proposed interface, here's a link to it:

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell

And to install it using the Ubuntu 9.10 package manager:


sudo apt-get install gnome-shell

yester64
January 11th, 2010, 02:41 AM
I definitely like gnome and the new version looks pretty nice.
I do not think that i will move to any other desktop creation, at least i do not plan to.
But from the OP i gathering that there are some people unhappy with the next gnome.

I love it so far.

TenLeftFingers
January 11th, 2010, 04:21 AM
It certainly improves my usage when a lot of applications are involved. I installed Gnome-Shell on the same day that I was planning my trip to India (Two days time!)

I began the session with a blank workspace but as I rustled through all the things I needed to plan, I ended up with something like this:

I had some web-browser windows tabbed with google maps of areas I need to be at.

I had another group of browser windows seperated with different airlines, trains and buses so I could make sure the connecting flights have enough time between them to make the departures on time.

I had Evoluion open with emails of people I want to meet, phone numbers and reccommended accommodations.

I had a folder open where I "printed" my many e-tickets as PDFs to dropbox. I'll print those next time I'm in town.

And several other windows with time-zones, weather (to plan what clothse to pack) and currency converter.

Normally if I was using that many windows (about 20) and constantly changing back and forth, it would have broken my mind! It's fine when you're just using "an application", but when you're doing "an activity" as they say, this model is really useful. I was able to really tear up the desktop and throw around those apps without the relentless Alt+Tab'ing that would have ensued and broken my concentration. I never had to think about what window or tab I had left something at and I couldn't get over the speed I got everything done at.

I'm sure everyones concerns will be addressed by the time of release. They are going to have some kind of plugin or applet functionality anyway so I'll be we can expect all sorts of great things from this desktop.

kilosan
January 11th, 2010, 05:19 AM
as long as it does not interfere with my web browser.

hawthornso23
January 11th, 2010, 05:26 AM
Very unhappy about the loss of Compiz. Very unhappy indeed. OK - the new gnome panel seems clean and looks technically well done. But it is really ... really ... boring! I have to give up my compiz cube and wobbly windows for ... ... THAT!

I know everything is still alpha. But I doubt things will improve. The mutter/gnome people just have a completely different approach and philosophy to the compiz people. Compiz is all about ultimate configurability, fun effects and doing cool amazing stuff with 3D accelerated graphics. The gnome/mutter crowd are a bunch of suits chanting the mantra of `consistent user experience'. They are just not into cool extreme stuff. Their imagination ends when windows smoothly minimise to the panel. They talk deprecatingly about `bling'. Would these guys ever have the imagination to put goldfish in a semitransparent rotating desktop cube? Somehow I think not.

I don't mind boring suits. People can be boring suits if they like. But these guys want for us all to be boring suits. They want to take away my goldfish!

Despite vague assurances to the contrary, I suspect that the new gnome/mutter desktop will not be very configurable and will not in the end manage to do even a tenth of what compiz can currently do. Extreme configurability doesn't fit with the `consistent user experience' philosophy they live by. These people sneer at bling so you can be sure that desktop effects will be a very low priority with them indeed. Yes clutter could in theory be made to do everything that compiz can currently do. But will it? Will they bother? Get real! They've made it abundantly clear that they don't think what compiz currently does is at all important.

I seriously doubt the 3D effects in mutter/gnome will be either cool or interesting. I doubt that the effects will be implemented as efficiently or effectively as the compiz ones currently are. I suspect that in fact they will discover that they are not be able to implement a lot of what compiz does efficiently at all. Compiz is 3D graphics accelleration all the way to the core. That project is totally about making the most effective and efficient use of the capabilities of graphics hardware. Mutter is ... metacity tweaked up to run on clutter. And it has to run on all hardware.

I really really hope I'm wrong. Doubt it though.

Roasted
January 11th, 2010, 05:39 AM
I've already switched.

I ran Kubuntu for a while and decided KDE was more of my liking. After which, I decided to try other distros that were said to have done a better job with KDE. I tried both Mandriva and OpenSUSE and sure enough they did do a better job of KDE. Currently running OpenSUSE 11.2. No problems or complaints.

Psumi
January 11th, 2010, 06:24 AM
If I had to choose between those three, it would be Xubuntu. However, I currently use the mini.iso, and will be using it for Lucid as well.

Excedio
January 11th, 2010, 09:20 PM
So I setup a new virtual machine with 9.10 on it. Then did:


sudo apt-get install gnome-shell && gnome-shell --replace

It looks like it could be nice except that most things were not rendering correctly. I could not see text in the menus, and when I opened a terminal, all I could see was part of the top panel.

It was really strange.

I'll be giving it another go when I get home.

juancarlospaco
January 11th, 2010, 10:22 PM
If dont like... Fork!, if dont work... Fork!, if no one fix it... Fork!,
if you got a better aprouch ... Fork!, if you know how to make it better... Fork!,
if its not maintained... Fork!, if too unstable... Fork!,
...Fork!

Morbius1
January 11th, 2010, 10:41 PM
I have a recurring nightmare that the good folks at Gnome and KDE won't be happy until the desktop resembles and functions like the iphone. .

I always have a version of some Xfce distro installed somewhere here - just in case.;)

seeker5528
January 12th, 2010, 12:30 AM
As far as the main thrust of the Gnome 3 developemnt, deprecating old stuff that is becoming a pain to maintain and in some cases may be blocking/slowing the entry of new stuff, I think that was/is a necessity.

The Gnome shell thing on the other hand, if you are comparing to what the KDE devs did with KDE 4, seems mostly cosmetic.

My early looks at Gnome shell don't leave me feeling very optimistic about it being something I actually want to use, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

Whatever happens with it I will most likely stick with the stock version of Ubuntu and add KDE, fluxbox, etc.. to it, for those odd occasions when I actually do a new installation as opposed to upgrading my existing installation.

Later, Seeker