Windows 7.....

[nolliecrooked]

......is REALLY good, its faster than XP on my lowend laptop, Karmic is gonna have to be really awesome to compete.

[Giant Speck]

At the rate these Windows 7 threads are popping up, the admins are going to have to create a Windows 7 Testimonials forum.

[CJ Master]

At the rate these Windows 7 threads are popping up, the admins are going to have to create a Windows 7 Testimonials forum.

+1 :lolflag:

I enjoy Windows7, but these ten threads a day are getting too much...

[utnubuuser]

...missing! - Your point...

[halovivek]

+1

[pmlxuser]

Would it kill you just to go to windows forumn and enjoy it with the rest of the windows users, than waste some precious ubuntu forum space tell us how good windows is....

try to go to a wondows forumn and mention how good ubuntu is and see...

[zekopeko]

Would it kill you just to go to windows forumn and enjoy it with the rest of the windows users, than waste some precious ubuntu forum space tell us how good windows is....

try to go to a wondows forumn and mention how good ubuntu is and see...

who are you to tell him what he/she can/can't post here? his post is to my knowledge within forums guidelines.

[cariboo907]

Moved to recurring.

[Giant Speck]

Would it kill you just to go to windows forumn and enjoy it with the rest of the windows users, than waste some precious ubuntu forum space tell us how good windows is....

try to go to a wondows forumn and mention how good ubuntu is and see...

Are you suggesting a sort of forum version of ethnic cleansing?

There shall only be blond and blue-eyed Ubuntu users here from now on. Heil Shuttleworth!

[Wiebelhaus]

I respectively disagree.

[nolliecrooked]

Are you suggesting a sort of forum version of ethnic cleansing?

There shall only be blond and blue-eyed Ubuntu users here from now on. Heil Shuttleworth!

lmao

[Pasdar]

Ubuntu with GNOME and many many changes could compete with VISTA, but it definitely can not compete against Windows 7. However, Ubuntu with KDE 4.3 can definitely compete with Windows 7.

[nolliecrooked]

Ubuntu with GNOME and many many changes could compete with VISTA, but it definitely can not compete against Windows 7. However, Ubuntu with KDE 4.3 can definitely compete with Windows 7.

GNOME shell looks pretty sweet. maybe 10.04 with GNOME Shell, KMS, DRI2 and a GOOD theme(I like the icon set, it just needs expanding) and Ubuntu will stop being the ugly OS.

And Windows 7 has f***** up paint, the interface is dumb as hell.

[Pasdar]

GNOME shell looks pretty sweet. maybe 10.04 with GNOME Shell, KMS, DRI2 and a GOOD theme(I like the icon set, it just needs expanding) and Ubuntu will stop being the ugly OS.

And Windows 7 has f***** up paint, the interface is dumb as hell.

GNOME 3.0 vs. KDE 4.3:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7380609&postcount=49

GNOME 3.0 can not compete with Windows 7, not even with a new theme.

I don't expect anything good from Canocial's promise of a new look either. I expect them to change a few colors from Appearance management again.

The most important desktop experience things from an operating system are always eyecandy, uniformity and responsiveness. GNOME, not even their latest version can deliver on any of these three, and the first can only be done after many changes to it. KDE on the other hand owns all three categories and does even more, without the need to touch it at all. Also, look at how polished KDE 4.3 is.

[ParanoidMetroid]

Windows 7 will never be a threat to Ubuntu. The worse it can do is take away users that never really understood Ubuntu (and Linux in general) in the first place. For example I'm never again installing an OS that thinks it knows how I want my files organized better than I do. And from what I hear, Windows 7 will have more of the same, if not worse.

[ELD]

As long as Windows is available at a cost it will not be a true threat to ubuntu.

[nolliecrooked]

GNOME 3.0 vs. KDE 4.3:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7380609&postcount=49

GNOME 3.0 can not compete with Windows 7, not even with a new theme.

I don't expect anything good from Canocial's promise of a new look either. I expect them to change a few colors from Appearance management again.

The most important desktop experience things from an operating system are always eyecandy, uniformity and responsiveness. GNOME, not even their latest version can deliver on any of these three, and the first can only be done after many changes to it. KDE on the other hand owns all three categories and does even more, without the need to touch it at all. Also, look at how polished KDE 4.3 is.

KDE4 is crap.

Windows 7 will never be a threat to Ubuntu. The worse it can do is take away users that never really understood Ubuntu (and Linux in general) in the first place. For example I'm never again installing an OS that thinks it knows how I want my files organized better than I do. And from what I hear, Windows 7 will have more of the same, if not worse.

huh?

[Sublime Porte]

Well it's up to users themselves, they should go with what suits them. However, when we look at it objectively, in the long run Microsoft is not there for the users, they're there for the money of the users. They couldn't care less how much their OS empowers you to use your computer, they only care about extracting more and more money from you. In the long term Linux is far better for users, and we need to realise that. It is us who will decide which OS wins out, and we need to decide based on what is best for us, not what's best for Microsoft, no matter how much eye-candy or "ease of use" they throw at us, remember it's not genuinely for us, Linux however is genuinely for us.

[Sublime Porte]

KDE4 is crap.

Sounds like a really well researched opinion you have there.

[Pasdar]

KDE4 is crap.
That does not sound very smart. Have you even tried it?

[monsterstack]

......is REALLY good, its faster than XP on my lowend laptop, Karmic is gonna have to be really awesome to compete.

So you mean Windows 7 is better than an operating system Microsoft made over eight years ago? Colour me impressed.

[ParanoidMetroid]

Windows 7 will never be a threat to Ubuntu. The worse it can do is take away users that never really understood Ubuntu (and Linux in general) in the first place. For example I'm never again installing an OS that thinks it knows how I want my files organized better than I do. And from what I hear, Windows 7 will have more of the same, if not worse.
huh?

Vista loved to rearrange and rename my files, specifically mp3s. It even did that sometimes after I specifically told Windows Media Player not to organize my music. My brother has had the same issues as well in XP, and worse. He's ripped songs so he can put them onto his mp3 player, deleted them from his library, and then later his wife tried copying the whole album to the library only to discover that WMP didn't bother reripping the songs that were already ripped once, even though they were no longer there. So naturally, when I hear about Window 7's libraries, I get a little nervous. Thankfully I remember quickly I'll never have to worry about it.

As long as Windows is available at a cost it will not be a true threat to ubuntu.

I think you're misunderstanding the point of free software here. It's not about the money. If that was it, most of us would still be using the pre-installed windows that came with our machines.

[nolliecrooked]

That does not sound very smart. Have you even tried it?

yup.

So you mean Windows 7 is better than an operating system Microsoft made over eight years ago? Colour me impressed.

I said quicker, not better.

[monsterstack]

I said quicker, not better.

So Windows 7 is almost as good as an operating system Microsoft made over eight years ago. That's rather less impressive.

[nolliecrooked]

So Windows 7 is almost as good as an operating system Microsoft made over eight years ago. That's rather less impressive.

yup.

[Pasdar]

yup.
Then why would you say its "crap".

[nolliecrooked]

Then why would you say its "crap".

hmmm?

[Pasdar]

hmmm?

Now I know the answer. You have damaged your brain in an accident, causing you not to save any information in your long term memory.

[Wiebelhaus]

Come on this is counter productive , you two can disagree without being disagreeable.

[nolliecrooked]

Now I know the answer. You have damaged your brain in an accident, causing you not to save any information in your long term memory.

yeah ok, Im dumb, cos I sure as hell dont know what your talking about.

care to elaborate?

[CJ Master]

yeah ok, Im dumb, cos I sure as hell dont know what your talking about.

care to elaborate?

How is it possible to forget an flamebait post in a page back with absolutely no facts or reasoning?

(ok, two pages back, stupid new page >.<)

[bashveank]

Come on this is counter productive , you two can disagree without being disagreeable.

Where's the fun in that?

[KOld Iron]

......is REALLY good, its faster than XP on my lowend laptop, Karmic is gonna have to be really awesome to compete.

Okay, if speed is your single criteria, whether an OS is better, maybe so.

I have installed Windows 7 RC on one of my test laptops and used it a bit and this was my experience.
Windows 7 can:
- Run Firefox for browsing (my Ubuntu can do that though as well)
- Run Thunderbird as mail client (my Ubuntu can do that though as well)
- Run GIMP for photo editing (my Ubuntu ...)
- Run Skype for keeping in touch with my daughter (my Ubuntu ...)
- Run OpenOffice for doing word processing and spread sheats (my Ubuntu ...)

Windows 7 can't:
- Run Digikam for photo management (my Ubuntu can though)
- Provide automatic updates to all applications installed through repositoires (my Ubuntu can ...)

Conclusion:
Windows 7 is an improvement to Vista, has a nice graphical touch (but my Ubuntu can have too, if I really want), but for life I could simply find no reason why I should be switching back to Windows (even if I would get it for free).
Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu? No contest. Ubuntu wins this one hands down, even with Jaunty.

[bakedbeans4life]

Okay, if speed is your single criteria, whether an OS is better, maybe so.

I have installed Windows 7 RC on one of my test laptops and used it a bit and this was my experience.
Windows 7 can:
- Run Firefox for browsing (my Ubuntu can do that though as well)
- Run Thunderbird as mail client (my Ubuntu can do that though as well)
- Run GIMP for photo editing (my Ubuntu ...)
- Run Skype for keeping in touch with my daughter (my Ubuntu ...)
- Run OpenOffice for doing word processing and spread sheats (my Ubuntu ...)

Windows 7 can't:
- Run Digikam for photo management (my Ubuntu can though)
- Provide automatic updates to all applications installed through repositoires (my Ubuntu can ...)

Conclusion:
Windows 7 is an improvement to Vista, has a nice graphical touch (but my Ubuntu can have too, if I really want), but for life I could simply find no reason why I should be switching back to Windows (even if I would get it for free).
Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu? No contest. Ubuntu wins this one hands down, even with Jaunty.

You my friend did not get the memo. On this forum, anything Linux or Open Source (boo, hiss enemy or enama of humanity) is taboo.

Windows 7 will be the best Windows ever, don't think about it, just accept it. At least up until the point at which they try and sell Windows 8 to you.

[baizon]

You my friend did not get the memo. On this forum, anything Linux or Open Source (boo, hiss enemy or enama of humanity) is taboo.

Windows 7 will be the best Windows ever, don't think about it, just accept it. At least up until the point at which they try and sell Windows 8 to you.

Best Windows? Maybe.
Best OS? No.

[bakedbeans4life]

Best Windows? Maybe.
Best OS? No.

Windows is the best OS ever...EVER. YOU HEAR ME?

His Ballmerness has told me so. He has spoken in visions and dreams and by methods only Microsoft lackeys know about or can comprehend.

I sacrificed my own hamster's entrails, I know for a fact that Ballmer preaches from the Holy Book of Gates.

How can you say you know the truth and not bow in the presence of our Lord?

[bashveank]

Okay, if speed is your single criteria, whether an OS is better, maybe so.

I have installed Windows 7 RC on one of my test laptops and used it a bit and this was my experience.
Windows 7 can:
- Run Firefox for browsing (my Ubuntu can do that though as well)
- Run Thunderbird as mail client (my Ubuntu can do that though as well)
- Run GIMP for photo editing (my Ubuntu ...)
- Run Skype for keeping in touch with my daughter (my Ubuntu ...)
- Run OpenOffice for doing word processing and spread sheats (my Ubuntu ...)

Windows 7 can't:
- Run Digikam for photo management (my Ubuntu can though)
- Provide automatic updates to all applications installed through repositoires (my Ubuntu can ...)

Conclusion:
Windows 7 is an improvement to Vista, has a nice graphical touch (but my Ubuntu can have too, if I really want), but for life I could simply find no reason why I should be switching back to Windows (even if I would get it for free).
Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu? No contest. Ubuntu wins this one hands down, even with Jaunty.

You do realize that Windows isn't Linux, right?
Windows 7 can:
Run Chrome for really fast browsing (Ubuntu can't)
Run Outlook for enterprise email (Ubuntu can't)
Run Photoshop for professional photo editing (Ubuntu can't)
Run MS Office for professional word processing and spread sheets (Ubuntu can't)

It can also:
Run Lightroom for professional photo management (Ubuntu can't)
And it can provide automatic updates to all applications installed through repositories with a well developed, easy to use third party application (one of the sorely lacking features of Ubuntu)

Oh, and it can play commercial games and use hardware from this century (Ubuntu can't)

My conclusion:
Windows 7 is an improvement on Vista. It also has a well developed UI and a consistent look and feel (Ubuntu doesn't). I don't confine myself to one OS because of a phobia of large organizations, I use Ubuntu for what it's good at, and Windows for what it's good at.
Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu? Not quite like comparing apples to oranges, but still a rather obscure comparison. If you must, though, Windows 7 beats Ubuntu to a pulp. Heck, Windows XP beats Ubuntu to a pulp.

[bakedbeans4life]

You do realize that Windows isn't Linux, right?
Windows 7 can:
Run Chrome for really fast browsing (Ubuntu can't)
Run Outlook for enterprise email (Ubuntu can't)
Run Photoshop for professional photo editing (Ubuntu can't)
Run MS Office for professional word processing and spread sheets (Ubuntu can't)

It can also:
Run Lightroom for professional photo management (Ubuntu can't)
And it can provide automatic updates to all applications installed through repositories with a well developed, easy to use third party application (one of the sorely lacking features of Ubuntu)

Oh, and it can play commercial games and use hardware from this century (Ubuntu can't)

My conclusion:
Windows 7 is an improvement on Vista. It also has a well developed UI and a consistent look and feel (Ubuntu doesn't). I don't confine myself to one OS because of a phobia of large organizations, I use Ubuntu for what it's good at, and Windows for what it's good at.
Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu? Not quite like comparing apples to oranges, but still a rather obscure comparison. If you must, though, Windows 7 beats Ubuntu to a pulp. Heck, Windows XP beats Ubuntu to a pulp.

I did try and educate the peasants to the fact that Windows is all they need...along with the anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-malware and the latest definitions from their anti-(everything, including the kitchen sink)-lifestyle vendor.

Did I mention firewall?

There can be no doubt, Windows 7 can save you from your own stupidity.

[CJ Master]

You do realize that Windows isn't Linux, right?
Windows 7 can:
Run Chrome for really fast browsing (Ubuntu can't)
Run Outlook for enterprise email (Ubuntu can't)
Run Photoshop for professional photo editing (Ubuntu can't)
Run MS Office for professional word processing and spread sheets (Ubuntu can't)

1) Chromium
2) Who the heck WANTS to use Outlook? Evolution or thunderbird is fine with me.
3) Your opinion is that Photoshop is for professional photo editing. My opinion is that GIMP blows Photoshop out the water.
4) WINE, if you even really want it. Openoffice does almost everything I find in Office. (Except spreadsheets stink...)

It can also:
Run Lightroom for professional photo management (Ubuntu can't)
And it can provide automatic updates to all applications installed through repositories with a well developed, easy to use third party application (one of the sorely lacking features of Ubuntu)

Oh, and it can play commercial games and use hardware from this century (Ubuntu can't)
1) I've never heard of lightroom, but it looks like any other (free) photo management program in Linux.
2) I'm not even going to respect this point. Have you ever used Ubuntu before? :)
3) Wine for most commercial games, and Ubuntu has excelent hardware support, even with the free drivers.

My conclusion:
Windows 7 is an improvement on Vista. It also has a well developed UI and a consistent look and feel (Ubuntu doesn't). I don't confine myself to one OS because of a phobia of large organizations, I use Ubuntu for what it's good at, and Windows for what it's good at.
Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu? Not quite like comparing apples to oranges, but still a rather obscure comparison. If you must, though, Windows 7 beats Ubuntu to a pulp. Heck, Windows XP beats Ubuntu to a pulp.

1) consistent my butt. Maybe only for first party applications, but it ends there.
2) Same here, each OS for what it's worth. I sometimes use Windows because of the things that happen to not run in wine.
3) Both are wrong.

[ParanoidMetroid]

You do realize that Windows isn't Linux, right?
Windows 7 can:
Run Chrome for really fast browsing (Ubuntu can't)
Technically, yes it can, but it takes work from what I've read.

Run Outlook for enterprise email (Ubuntu can't)
Don't know about that one.

Run Photoshop for professional photo editing (Ubuntu can't)
Photoshop 7 runs just fine in WINE. Just remember to change the window settings so ALT+click doesn't try to move the windows (I suggest SUPER+Click instead, personal preference). Not sure about Photoshop CS, though if I recall correctly it has silver or gold status at WINEhq.

Run MS Office for professional word processing and spread sheets (Ubuntu can't)
I believe MS Office works in WINE for the most part too, although I could be wrong, I don't have need of it.

Admitted, it's not always easy to get programs written for Windows to work in Ubuntu, but the "Ubuntu can't" is harsh. Often it can, and lots of people do.

Moving on.

And it can provide automatic updates to all applications installed through repositories with a well developed, easy to use third party application (one of the sorely lacking features of Ubuntu)
What does Ubuntu's Update Manager do then? It's always updates all the programs I've ever installed through aptitude or the synaptic package manager.

Oh, and it can play commercial games and use hardware from this century (Ubuntu can't)
And Ubuntu can use hardware from last century, Windows can't lol.
Seriously, I can't say for Windows 7, but I had more hardware issues with Vista than I do with Ubuntu, and a lot of said hardware was post-2000. I won't say I've had no hardware issues with Ubuntu, just that the myth that Windows has better hardware compatibility is just that: a myth,

It also has a well developed UI and a consistent look and feel (Ubuntu doesn't).
Who defines what a "consistent look and feel" is?

I use Ubuntu for what it's good at, and Windows for what it's good at.
Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu? Not quite like comparing apples to oranges, but still a rather obscure comparison. If you must, though, Windows 7 beats Ubuntu to a pulp. Heck, Windows XP beats Ubuntu to a pulp.
Neither operating system beats the other to a pulp. They both have their strengths and their weaknesses. Admitted, I feel that Ubuntu's main weakness is a lack of acknowledgement by the proprietary software community which isn't Ubuntu's fault, but that's all personal opinion. Either way, there are a number of people who duel boot specifically so they can get the advantages of both systems.

[kelvin spratt]

A lot of bitching has started on this thread I use both Linux and windows7/XP.
They all have strengths and weaknesses my personal preference is linux.
But first you have to learn the programs you are using before you comment and slag them off.

[bashveank]

I did try and educate the peasants to the fact that Windows is all they need...along with the anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-malware and the latest definitions from their anti-(everything, including the kitchen sink)-lifestyle vendor.

Did I mention firewall?

There can be no doubt, Windows 7 can save you from your own stupidity.

I haven't used an anti-malware/spyware/virus in ages and I remain uninfected.






1) Chromium

Remains crap, maybe in a year or so.

2) Who the heck WANTS to use Outlook? Evolution or thunderbird is fine with me.

Enterprise

3) Your opinion is that Photoshop is for professional photo editing. My opinion is that GIMP blows Photoshop out the water.

Your opinion is invalidated by professional knowledge on my part, and on the general Graphics Design field.

4) WINE, if you even really want it. Openoffice does almost everything I find in Office. (Except spreadsheets stink...)

Doesn't run it well. What if I need spreadsheets, heck, what if I need to be compatible with .doc or .docx files?

1) I've never heard of lightroom, but it looks like any other (free) photo management program in Linux.

Except that no (free) photo management program in Linux is used by millions of professionals. Lightroom is.

2) I'm not even going to respect this point. Have you ever used Ubuntu before? :)

Fine, don't respect it. Good thing I'm not as petty. Yes, I do use Ubuntu, on more computers than any other OS, as a matter of fact.

3) Wine for most commercial games, and Ubuntu has excelent hardware support, even with the free drivers.

Most commercial games will not run, or will run like crap in Wine. And Ubuntu most certainly does not have excellent hardware support. If it did, I wouldn't be complaining about it.

1) consistent my butt. Maybe only for first party applications, but it ends there.

You really fail to make a point here.

3) Both are wrong.

No, both are right.






Technically, yes it can, but it takes work from what I've read.

It runs Chromium, and not very well

Photoshop 7 runs just fine in WINE. Just remember to change the window settings so ALT+click doesn't try to move the windows (I suggest SUPER+Click instead, personal preference). Not sure about Photoshop CS, though if I recall correctly it has silver or gold status at WINEhq.

I'm not using Photoshop 7 when the rest of my class uses CS3/4 (which don't run/don't run well in Wine)

I believe MS Office works in WINE for the most part too, although I could be wrong, I don't have need of it.

Not well.

Admitted, it's not always easy to get programs written for Windows to work in Ubuntu, but the "Ubuntu can't" is harsh. Often it can, and lots of people do.

It's not harsh, it's just facts.

What does Ubuntu's Update Manager do then? It's always updates all the programs I've ever installed through aptitude or the synaptic package manager.

I thought this might be misinterpreted. What I meant was that Linux is lacking well developed, polished applications, not an update manager.


And Ubuntu can use hardware from last century, Windows can't lol.
Seriously, I can't say for Windows 7, but I had more hardware issues with Vista than I do with Ubuntu, and a lot of said hardware was post-2000. I won't say I've had no hardware issues with Ubuntu, just that the myth that Windows has better hardware compatibility is just that: a myth,

I've had the exact opposite experience, probably to a greater degree.

Who defines what a "consistent look and feel" is?

The dictionary definition of consistency would probably do, but I think you know what I mean.


Neither operating system beats the other to a pulp. They both have their strengths and their weaknesses. Admitted, I feel that Ubuntu's main weakness is a lack of acknowledgement by the proprietary software community which isn't Ubuntu's fault, but that's all personal opinion. Either way, there are a number of people who duel boot specifically so they can get the advantages of both systems.

That's why I said they shouldn't be compared, they are for different things.

[ParanoidMetroid]

I haven't used an anti-malware/spyware/virus in ages and I remain uninfected.
How do you know if you haven't run it in ages?


Your opinion is that Photoshop is for professional photo editing. My opinion is that GIMP blows Photoshop out the water.
Your opinion is invalidated by professional knowledge on my part, and on the general Graphics Design field.
Let's not go there. My opinion of GIMP is less than favorable too, but that's all it is, an opinion. We're all entitled to them.

It's not harsh, it's just facts.
No, they're opinions, not facts.

I thought this might be misinterpreted. What I meant was that Linux is lacking well developed, polished applications, not an update manager.
You were referring to software updates. "And [Windows 7] can provide automatic updates to all applications installed through repositories with a well developed, easy to use third party application." (my bold italic)

I've had the exact opposite experience, probably to a greater degree.
How can you know or even suggest "probably", when you don't know what hardware I'm using? Although I should be glad that this time you included a disclaimer, instead of taking an opinion as absolute fact again.

The dictionary definition of consistency would probably do, but I think you know what I mean.
No, I don't. Consistence is a matter of opinion and perception. Take this math puzzle for example: "1 3 6 ?". What number can the "?" be that is consistant? Is it 10? Most people might say yes, seeing the classic triangular numbers (1, 1+2, 1+2+3, 1+2+3+4). Someone else might say "6" though (base, base*3, base*3*2, base*3*2*1, with base = 1). It's still a pattern, and it's still consistent.

That's why I said they shouldn't be compared, they are for different things.
If you must, though, Windows 7 beats Ubuntu to a pulp. Heck, Windows XP beats Ubuntu to a pulp.
It's kind of hard for me to acknowledge the "if you must" disclaimer when you follow it with "beats ... to a pulp". It's not consistent. But that's just my opinion :p.

[gashcr]

the eternal discussion... boooriing...

fact is, I use ubuntu for 2 reasons: 1 It just works for me and I can customize it's interface to MY likes. 2 can't afford for a windows license, and personally I don't support software piracy (especially for a product that doesn't fit my needs).

Personally, I don't care how cool W7 is gonna be (at least that's what I've heard so far). I won't buy it.

By the way, concerning office... can't help it... If you wanna PROFESSIONAL looking documents, LateX is the way to go, no that bloated pseudo-writing application.

[bashveank]

How do you know if you haven't run it in ages?

I run scanners.


Let's not go there. My opinion of GIMP is less than favorable too, but that's all it is, an opinion. We're all entitled to them.

I'm not speaking of GIMP in general. I recommend it to people who ask. But GIMP is simply not for professional use.


No, they're opinions, not facts.

Linux can't run Windows-complied apps natively? That's not an opinion, it's a fact.


You were referring to software updates. "And [Windows 7] can provide automatic updates to all applications installed through repositories with a well developed, easy to use third party application." (my bold italic)

I am aware of what I was referring to. I am aware that it was rather ambiguous to read, that's why I clarified. (read the last 9 words)


How can you know or even suggest "probably", when you don't know what hardware I'm using? Although I should be glad that this time you included a disclaimer, instead of taking an opinion as absolute fact again.

I only offer facts as facts, not opinions as facts. I can know/suggest based on my extremely frustrating experiences. Let me say, there was a time when I would have agreed with you, but then I tried using Linux in an environment with more users than just myself. Those people no longer respect me.


No, I don't. Consistence is a matter of opinion and perception. Take this math puzzle for example: "1 3 6 ?". What number can the "?" be that is consistant? Is it 10? Most people might say yes, seeing the classic triangular numbers (1, 1+2, 1+2+3, 1+2+3+4). Someone else might say "6" though (base, base*3, base*3*2, base*3*2*1, with base = 1). It's still a pattern, and it's still consistent.

You are correct...



It's kind of hard for me to acknowledge the "if you must" disclaimer when you follow it with "beats ... to a pulp". It's not consistent. But that's just my opinion :p.[/QUOTE]

That's why I said they shouldn't be compared.

[Wiebelhaus]

Now we have Linux posers , They really don't like it and nothing on it really works for them , everything they have ever used on a NT Environment is much much better but yet they still are here polluting our community with dissent and argumentative negativity.

[ParanoidMetroid]

I only offer facts as facts, not opinions as facts.
I disagree. You've been offering opinions as facts. I don't expect people to insert a disclaimer every time they state a personal opinion (I certainly don't), but I take issues with the way you say things, especially when you told CJ Master that his opinion was invalid. That was when I started calling you out on your so-called facts, because that was when you demonstrated (to my satisfaction) that you felt that everyone should have the same opinions as you have. For the record I do appreciate your clarifications after the fact, but they're still opinions, even if most of them are commonly agreed upon.

[tsali]

Now we have Linux posers , They really don't like it and nothing on it really works for them , everything they have ever used on a NT Environment is much much better but yet they still are here polluting our community with dissent and argumentative negativity.

Gotta love this. As an avid Ubuntu user who actually does think Windows offers superior value for most folks, it drives me bats to get labeled as "poser" when don't bow down and worship at the linux altar.

For MOST stuff, Ubuntu works just fine.

However, sometimes I want to do something unusual, like, say, burn an audio cd?

So, the songs I wanted were in OGG format, so I fired up Brasero and followed the prompts. Normalizing...forever. Google, google, google, check forums...ah! Brasero bug in Jaunty. Solution? Install k3b. Ok. Forty-three minutes later I have the audio CD I wanted to begin with.

Last time I did this in Windows, I dragged songs to a playlist, click "Burn" and have the CD in under 4 minutes.

What I have just described is typical of my linux experience anytime I get outside of simple web surfing...

When I want to get real stuff done quickly, I know I can count on my Windows install. I don't even open Ubuntu unless I have some extra time on my hands.

[Screwdriver0815]

okay, I want to give up this bad OS, called Kubuntu. I want to have a proper one. Kubuntu is too bad. Although it does all I want from it, it doesn't run native windows apps. And that is the reason, why an operating system is made: running Windows Software.

Where can I get Windows 7? How much does it cost? Does the install DVD also include Microsoft Office, Photoshop, iTunes, ICQ-client, Outlook, Acrobat Professional and Firefox?

No?

okay, but due to the legendary hardware support, Windows 7 will support my printer out of the box, right?

No?

too bad...

lets see what we have here:

- Windows 7 costs (estimate based on the Vista price): 180 Euros

- Photoshop costs 185 Euros

- Microsoft Office (incl. Outlook) costs 341 Euros

- Acrobat Professional costs 195 Euros

the remaining software is without cost

This makes a total cost of 901 Euros. And I have to install all the software on my own, because it will not be installed when I install the operating system itself.

hmm... now I am not sure whether I should spend the money... because I don't know if being able to run native Windows Applications is worth it. I mean, I don't know which Windows Apps I should run... but I want to be real professional. So I MUST run native Windows-Applications!!!

seriously: why the hell should anyone who has a little bit experience in Linux resp. Ubuntu and who does not need all this for his job/his income spend 900 (!!!) Euros for that? Can anybody explain?

Thanks

[monsterstack]

Gotta love this. As an avid Ubuntu user who actually does think Windows offers superior value for most folks, it drives me bats to get labeled as "poser" when don't bow down and worship at the linux altar.

For MOST stuff, Ubuntu works just fine.

However, sometimes I want to do something unusual, like, say, burn an audio cd?

So, the songs I wanted were in OGG format, so I fired up Brasero and followed the prompts. Normalizing...forever. Google, google, google, check forums...ah! Brasero bug in Jaunty. Solution? Install k3b. Ok. Forty-three minutes later I have the audio CD I wanted to begin with.

Last time I did this in Windows, I dragged songs to a playlist, click "Burn" and have the CD in under 4 minutes.

What I have just described is typical of my linux experience anytime I get outside of simple web surfing...

When I want to get real stuff done quickly, I know I can count on my Windows install. I don't even open Ubuntu unless I have some extra time on my hands.

And yet a single Google search of a moderately popular Windows forum on problems burning audio CDs returns over 700 results (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Avistax64.com+trouble+burning+audio +cd&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=Swiftfox:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) [google.com].

Really, all you've given us is a false dichotomy. Doing stuff on Linux is different. It's just the way it works. It's just silly trying to argue that. I could say that for me Windows has been nothing but trouble. It also happens to be true, but it doesn't prove a damn thing.

[Screwdriver0815]

900 Euros anyone?

come on guys, you must have a reason to say that all this 900 euros costing stuff is better than Ubuntu and worth to spend 900 euros more than at Ubuntu!

What is it?

the cool taskbar?

the nice wallpaper?

the nice icons?

the faster boot time compared to Vista?

give me a reason to switch and to spend the 900 Euros, please!

[k2t0f12d]

I dunno, enlarged genitalia?

[Saint_]

I don't know about the rest of you, but Windows 7 kinda sucks... While running the beta for like 4 months it would just randomly hibernate, like literally. It would just shut itself down. Which I guess I shouldn't complain because that's what turned me onto Ubuntu, so it all worked out in the end. The moral of the story is: microsoft is a corporation that wants to rip you off for every penny they can.

[Pasdar]

You do realize that Windows isn't Linux, right?
Windows 7 can:
Run Chrome for really fast browsing (Ubuntu can't)
I don't even like Chrome. The new Firefox is also faster than Chrome and it'll be released before Chrome becomes a fully functioning browser.

Run Outlook for enterprise email (Ubuntu can't)
Who on earth still uses Outlook these days?

Run Photoshop for professional photo editing (Ubuntu can't)
Are you sure about that? I even use Photoshop on my Ubuntu. However, I've never really tried GIMP. I only use Photoshop because I'm used to it. I also have a Nikon D40 by the way.

Run MS Office for professional word processing and spread sheets (Ubuntu can't)
I can't agree with this. Reason: you mention professional, yet you don't seem to be aware that in offices they use very old office versions that are inferior to OpenOffice or Koffice. For example, my sister works at a huge company in the Netherlands with thousands of employees. However, until last year they still used Windows 98 with Office 97. They have recently upgraded to Windows 2000 with Office 2000. Not only the operating system, but also the office they use in this professional environment are inferior to Ubuntu 9.04 and Open Office or KOffice.

Other than that I don't agree with (latest versions) Open Office or KOffice being inferior to MS Office either. They work different and you'll have compatibility issues, but that not the point. What makes a product inferior is when you can actually not perform a certain relevant task.

Run Lightroom for professional photo management (Ubuntu can't)
LightZone on Linux superior to Lightroom and I don't like Lightroom either. Many people on MAC even use LightZone and it has come out on top in reviews. Lightroom doesn't come in the top three even.

And it can provide automatic updates to all applications installed through repositories with a well developed, easy to use third party application (one of the sorely lacking features of Ubuntu)
What applications are you using in Windows that requires it to be up to date the moment a new version gets out and the same can't be done in Ubuntu?

Oh, and it can play commercial games and use hardware from this century (Ubuntu can't)
Agreed. However, this has nothing to do with inferiority or superiority. It just has to do with choices companies make.

My conclusion:
Windows 7 is an improvement on Vista. It also has a well developed UI and a consistent look and feel (Ubuntu doesn't).
The improvement over Windows VISTA is minor. It's the change you'd expect after six months, not six years. The improvements over WIndows 2000 are enormous, but they are 9 to 10 years separated. It would be like comparing Ubuntu 4.10 with Ubuntu 14.10 (Oct, 2014).

Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu? Not quite like comparing apples to oranges, but still a rather obscure comparison. If you must, though, Windows 7 beats Ubuntu to a pulp. Heck, Windows XP beats Ubuntu to a pulp.
Based on what? The choices other companies make to release drivers or software for Ubuntu or not?

[tsali]

And yet a single Google search of a moderately popular Windows forum on problems burning audio CDs returns over 700 results (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Avistax64.com+trouble+burning+audio +cd&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=Swiftfox:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) [google.com].

Really, all you've given us is a false dichotomy. Doing stuff on Linux is different. It's just the way it works. It's just silly trying to argue that. I could say that for me Windows has been nothing but trouble. It also happens to be true, but it doesn't prove a damn thing.


43 minutes versus 4 minutes. Nothing false about that dichotomy.

43 minutes versus 4 minutes. Just because Linux is different.

Gimme a break

If Linux did things differently but yielded the same results or better, there would be absolutely nothing wrong.

If I could burn an audio CD reliably in 4 minutes in Ubuntu using as simple a method (but different) as WMP uses, I would have no complaint whatsoever.

I used to be an Ubuntu OEM provider, but the support for issues like the one of above was killing me. I've worked on hundreds of machines in the last few years and if I had to create logs of common tasks that failed function for the Ubuntu machines versus the Windows machines, they would be drastically different.

Both Ubuntu and Windows werer serving the same clientele...consumer home users. Simple things like installing a new monitor, making an anniversary DVD slideshow or even keeping a DSL connection working reliably were filled with issues and work.

I got tired of making excuses for it and simply stopped offering it.

I don't buy that crap about "It isn't Linux's fault that hardware manufacturers don't support it...".

Bottom line is that the philosophy and culture either produces software that works or it doesn't. Shipping broken software isn't acceptable regardless of the OS. Ubuntu doesn't get a pass from me because it's "free".

[tsali]

why the hell should anyone who has a little bit experience in Linux resp. Ubuntu and who does not need all this for his job/his income spend 900 (!!!) Euros for that? Can anybody explain?

Thanks

You answered your own question. However, there are a great number who do need this software for their job. Spending 900e to satisfy clients for a 100,000e account sounds like a good investment to me.

Otherwise, Ubuntu might well be able to serve a particular user's needs. I have it installed on two laptops because it does what I want out of those laptops. I have Vista on my desktop because that's the machine I get work done with.

[gashcr]

43 minutes versus 4 minutes. Nothing false about that dichotomy.

43 minutes versus 4 minutes. Just because Linux is different.

Gimme a break

If Linux did things differently but yielded the same results or better, there would be absolutely nothing wrong.

If I could burn an audio CD reliably in 4 minutes in Ubuntu using as simple a method (but different) as WMP uses, I would have no complaint whatsoever.

.

Ok, open Rhytmbox, create new playlist, add songs to the playlist, right click on playlist, click on create audio cd, insert CD, set the options for the burning process, click on create, wait your 4 minutes, done.

Any other question?

[MellonCollie]

.

[tsali]

Ok, open Rhytmbox, create new playlist, add songs to the playlist, right click on playlist, click on create audio cd, insert CD, set the options for the burning process, click on create, wait your 4 minutes, done.

Any other question?

Didn't work. It's why I was in Brasero.

[gashcr]

Didn't work. It's why I was in Brasero.

mmm, sorry to hear that, I just did that with a Deep Purple disc I'm happily listening to right now...

[Screwdriver0815]

You answered your own question. However, there are a great number who do need this software for their job. Spending 900e to satisfy clients for a 100,000e account sounds like a good investment to me.

Otherwise, Ubuntu might well be able to serve a particular user's needs. I have it installed on two laptops because it does what I want out of those laptops. I have Vista on my desktop because that's the machine I get work done with.
maybe you want to understand it in this way, maybe you really do.

With this "answer" as you call it, I mean: why is a 900 Euro system offered so extensively in a Linuxforum?

Just tell me: why?

Why do people pop up over here in frequent intervals, advertising this system, based on "how cool it is", "how fast it is", "how good it looks", but nobody mentions the cost?
Why are there always discussions how "unprofessional" some Linuxsoftware (or open source software in general) is?
Why is it always just critisiscm which always repeats old images and makes no difference? Why not participation?

So I thought: the reason must be that some users of this board want to convert Linux-users into Windows users. Something which would be critisised as religious and fanatism if it would be reverse.
Thats why I have asked, for my personal case, if there is any reason to spend the money. If someone needs it for the job - no doubt about it. I don't care and its okay for me. But why should an average privat users convert from Linux to Windows 7? And nothing else in my eyes is the reason for this Hype being done about Windows 7. I just don't want to get crusaded in such a lame way.

But I see: there is no reason and ll these complaints about Gimp being unprofessional but Photoshop being ruling the world, CD burning and the always repeated Codec-story (which is boring like Windows itself btw) are just what they are: stupid repeating of chewed for propaganda

[piousp]

You do realize that Windows isn't Linux, right?
Windows 7 can:
Run Chrome for really fast browsing (Ubuntu can't)
Run Outlook for enterprise email (Ubuntu can't)
Run Photoshop for professional photo editing (Ubuntu can't)
Run MS Office for professional word processing and spread sheets (Ubuntu can't)


1. Kasehakage?
2. Real enterprises dont use outlook :P
3. Professional photoshop users dont use Windows
4. Professional word processing DON'T use WYSIWYG programs

:popcorn:

Edit

Oh noooo, i just feed the troll :p

[spier]

So you mean Windows 7 is better than an operating system Microsoft made over eight years ago? Colour me impressed.

Good catch!
:lolflag:

[ParanoidMetroid]

43 minutes versus 4 minutes. Nothing false about that dichotomy.

43 minutes versus 4 minutes. Just because Linux is different.

Gimme a break

You're confusing an operating system with a program running on the operating system. Besides, my brother lost far more than 43 minutes when Windows Media Player renamed his entire collection of music files on his mp3 player. It goes both ways. Neither Linux or Windows is 100% perfect, nor are the programs that run on Linux or Windows.

[MikeTheC]

I've actually tried installing it on my system a couple times now and it hangs during the installation process. Hmm...

Who knew eMachines was a union shop. :shock:

[pwnst*r]

1. Kasehakage?
2. Real enterprises dont use outlook :P
3. Professional photoshop users dont use Windows
4. Professional word processing DON'T use WYSIWYG programs

:popcorn:

Edit

Oh noooo, i just feed the troll :p

unf, eenf, pleeorg?

[starcannon]

......is REALLY good, its faster than XP on my lowend laptop, Karmic is gonna have to be really awesome to compete.

Perhaps http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/category/w7itpro/ would be more suited to your current needs.

GL and have fun.

[monsterstack]

Perhaps http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/category/w7itpro/ would be more suited to your current needs.

GL and have fun.

I was going to go to that forum and brag about how amazing Ubuntu is. Then I realised I had a life.

[3startuna]

can windows 7 do this?
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3273/screenshotubuntuforumsu.png

also check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ID2CbtnKk
:D

[3startuna]

Ubuntu with GNOME and many many changes could compete with VISTA, but it definitely can not compete against Windows 7. However, Ubuntu with KDE 4.3 can definitely compete with Windows 7.

I respectfully disagree.

You can tweak the hell out of Gnome. I actually prefer it to the KDE environment personally.

I think KDE is more for beginers. The problem I think why more people are going to KDE and impressed by win 7 is because they havent fully tried to tweak Gnome.

As for competing with windows.

There is no comparison. Windows will always have the same windows problems. And the fact that its not a true terminal OS like linux will always be a major disadvantage.

Case in point. Say a program crashes in Linux what do you do?

Launch terminal type kill and process ID done. or xkill, then click the program gone.

A program crashes in Windows what happens? kill it, the process gets suspended or "not responsive" ctrl+alt+del right click end process. doesnt work, your entire computer is now frozen.

Then the built in features of linux like alt +f2 and other little features that just makes it a much more efficient OS to use if your a multi-tasker like me

That said This version of windows will always have the same windows "advantages" that they have always had, i.e. 3rd party hardware support, etc. IMHO thats not really the fault of linux, but the product of microsoft's aggressive marketing.

[djdarrin91]

I agree,if i wanted to hear about windows i would go to a windows forum. just my opinion:)

[TheNosh]

can windows 7 do this?
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3273/screenshotubuntuforumsu.png

also check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ID2CbtnKk
:D

for free: no

but yod'm 3d or cubedesktop can get the mutiple desktop thing going with some nice animations

and for docks you can choose between objectdock and rocket dock (those are free)

linux is better than windows (for my use most of the time) but it has very little to do with the way it looks, i like compiz and all that, but with a little work you really can get a lot of that stuff in windows

[monsterstack]

for free: no

but yod'm 3d or desktop cube can get the mutiple desktop thing going with some nice animations

and for docks you can choose between objectdock and rocket dock (those are free)

linux is better than windows (for my use most of the time) but it has very little to do with the way it looks, i like compiz and all that, but with a little work you really can get a lot of that stuff in windows

I agree. Of my friends, most are awed by the ZOMG PONIES that is Compiz when they first see it, but it doesn't take long for them to recover their senses. That's when I show them the Add/Remove application. There are more things to life than pretty colours, after all.

[3startuna]

for free: no



Thats all needs to be said about this debate

Advantage Linux :D

There are more things to life than pretty colours, after all.

couldn't have said it any better.

[TheNosh]

Thats all needs to be said about this debate


not really, the question was "can windows 7 do this?" not "can windows 7 do this for free?"

it's like $19 which is hardley noticable if they've already payed for a windows license

i don't actually run any of that stuff on my windows partition anyway, cause i just use it for gaming

[Giant Speck]

can windows 7 do this?
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3273/screenshotubuntuforumsu.png

Yes, it can, with a third-party application called Vista/XP Virtual Desktop Manager. Check out the screenshots I attached.

[Screwdriver0815]

Yes, it can, with a third-party application called Vista/XP Virtual Desktop Manager. Check out the screenshots I attached.
I have this on my workstation at work. To be honest: its crap because it does not tolerate Excel. If you open an Excel file on one desktop and another one on another desktop (which in Linux is no problem), Windows crashes horribly.

[Giant Speck]

I have this on my workstation at work. To be honest: its crap because it does not tolerate Excel. If you open an Excel file on one desktop and another one on another desktop (which in Linux is no problem), Windows crashes horribly.

If I remember correctly, Excel doesn't like to open two separate windows altogether. From the few times I've used it, I've noticed that it likes to keep all Excel documents in one window, forcing the user to use the Window menu to switch documents.

[WatchingThePain]

Are you suggesting a sort of forum version of ethnic cleansing?

There shall only be blond and blue-eyed Ubuntu users here from now on. Heil Shuttleworth!

Maybe there should be a punishment for "bigging up Windows" like the offender gets sentenced to a year of Windows Tech Support for home users.

[Giant Speck]

Maybe there should be a punishment for "bigging up Windows" like the offender gets sentenced to a year of Windows Tech Support for home users.

Can we enforce the same punishment for those who "big up Linux," too? I mean, it's only fair.

[WatchingThePain]

Can we enforce the same punishment for those who "big up Linux," too? I mean, it's only fair.

Yes, but only if they are found in a Windows forum.;)

[Screwdriver0815]

If I remember correctly, Excel doesn't like to open two separate windows altogether. From the few times I've used it, I've noticed that it likes to keep all Excel documents in one window, forcing the user to use the Window menu to switch documents.
this is, what I also thought as I experienced these crashes. Sometimes Excel itself (not Windows) crashes either, even when you open the excelfiles only on one Desktop.

Anyway: for me it is clear: Advantage Linux ;) :D

[Wiebelhaus]

can windows 7 do this?
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3273/screenshotubuntuforumsu.png

also check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ID2CbtnKk
:D

That's a HUGE problem for me , I have to have multiple desktops and tabbed file browsing , I last about an hour without them and reboot.

[3startuna]

Can we enforce the same punishment for those who "big up Linux," too? I mean, it's only fair.

No because the sheer awesomeness of linux means it should be brought up and hailed every second of every day

[pwnst*r]

for free: no



wrong. multiple desktops can be achieved using Blackbox for windows.

[Neobuntu]

People. Deal with W7 for what it is. Pros and cons. Then beat it with (K)Ubuntu.

Shut the heck up; about (k)ubuntu NOT being Windows. That only drives people away. Our job is to leave no real benefit behind and include pros that are far and away a better draw, than the Windows status quo.

With all the improvements, we need to do MUCH better. Starting with rock solid stability.

This lack of stability until a release has been out for about 3 months has got to stop. IT'S KILLING ADOPTION!

It's Kubuntu or bust! Pack it in or get going!

[TheNosh]

wrong. multiple desktops can be achieved using Blackbox for windows.

When i said it wasn't free i was refering to the expo effect shown in the picture (that was kinda what the question was about)
and to the best of my knowledge (which, granted, could be wrong) there is no free way of gettin that sort of effect in windows

[ptsubin]

It uses 5MiB lesser RAM than VISTA. I took total 2 hrs on windows 7. 1hr install and configuration. Then 30 mins testings.. 25 mins rest. And i don't know, took around 3 mins for a through format. Thanks g-parted.

[CJ Master]

When i said it wasn't free i was refering to the expo effect shown in the picture (that was kinda what the question was about)
and to the best of my knowledge (which, granted, could be wrong) there is no free way of gettin that sort of effect in windows

Use KDE as the DE on Windows. ;)

[evermooingcow]

Is Gnome/KDE/whatever desktop not feeling as responsive as the Win 7 desktop?

With Linux its as simple as getting a lighter window manager. Or if you don't need the desktop get rid of it all together and run the system from CLI on 5MB of RAM idle. Can't do that with Windows.

[Giant Speck]

No because the sheer awesomeness of linux means it should be brought up and hailed every second of every day

What an interesting double standard.

[k2t0f12d]

wrong. multiple desktops can be achieved using Blackbox for windows.

multiple desktops is not impressive
every window manager I used with GNU+Linux has them with or without effects and without third party software
show us a screenshot of the expo effect on Windows, thanks

[Giant Speck]

multiple desktops is not impressive
every window manager I used with GNU+Linux has them with or without effects and without third party software
show us a screenshot of the expo effect on Windows, thanks

Go back to page 8 and look at the screenshots I posted.

[k2t0f12d]

Go back to page 8 and look at the screenshots I posted.I already saw them, and your screenies do not look like expo at all. You'll have to do a bit better then that to prove its just as nice. Where is the mirror effect? Is it included in Micro$oft's window manager?

[Giant Speck]

I already saw them, and your screenies do not look like expo at all.

Who cares if it looks exactly the same when it has the same functionality?

You'll have to do a bit better then that to prove its just as nice.

It has more functionality than the Expo plugin has by itself. It has a built-in desktop pager and it allows you to set different wallpapers for each desktop. You can also set the program to show the pager in a small mini-toolbar rather than in the system tray.

Where is the mirror effect?

Again, what functionality does the mirror effect have?

Is it included in Micro$oft's window manager?

No. It's a third-party application, just like Compiz is.

[k2t0f12d]

... <snip> ... You directed me to those screens to prove that your example is like expo. The expo feature doesn't provide multiple desktops, it just looks nice. Your program might be nice, but it does not look like expo and on that basis not equivalent. There are lots of multiple desktop views for GNU+Linux that are less shiny then expo, too. I can get all the GNU+Linux desktop features from one vendor. Does your program come from the same vendor as the rest of the operating system?

[Giant Speck]

You directed me to those screens to prove that your example is like expo. The expo feature doesn't provide multiple desktops, it just looks nice. Your program might be nice, but it does not look like expo and on that basis not equivalent. There are lots of multiple desktop views for GNU+Linux that are less shiny then expo, too. I can get all the GNU+Linux desktop features from one vendor. Does your program come from the same vendor as the rest of the operating system?

You know what, fine; you're right. I have no leg to stand on.

I'd rather bow out than continue arguing.

Have a nice day.

[3startuna]

Go back to page 8 and look at the screenshots I posted.

can windows do this?

http://blog.worldcampus.psu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/cube1_small.jpg

Advantage Linux :D

[Giant Speck]

can windows do this?

http://blog.worldcampus.psu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/cube1_small.jpg

Advantage Linux :D

To answer your question: Yes, it can, with a third-party application.

Now, answer me this: Can Linux do that without Compiz? The desktop cube is not an advantage of Linux; it's an advantage of Compiz, a third-party application. The only advantage Linux has in this case is that many distros are bundled with Compiz by default.

[rookcifer]

You do realize that Windows isn't Linux, right?
Windows 7 can:
Run Chrome for really fast browsing (Ubuntu can't)

Chrome is coming to Linux soon. There are Alpha builds already.

Run Outlook for enterprise email (Ubuntu can't)

LOL

Run Photoshop for professional photo editing (Ubuntu can't)

GIMP can do most of what Photoshop can. And you can even run many Photoshop plugins directly inside GIMP.

Run MS Office for professional word processing and spread sheets (Ubuntu can't)

OpenOffice.

It can also:
Run Lightroom for professional photo management (Ubuntu can't)

Picassa, DigiKam.

And it can provide automatic updates to all applications installed through repositories with a well developed, easy to use third party application (one of the sorely lacking features of Ubuntu)

Huh? What in the world are you talking about?

Oh, and it can play commercial games and use hardware from this century (Ubuntu can't)

That's weird. I have ran Ubuntu on Core i7's, Phenom II's, Core2Quads, Opeterons, etc. Any x86 CPU. Ubuntu also runs on Sparc, PPC, and a ton of others. Does Windows run on those?

Secondly, which OS had 64 bit support first? Nope, it wasn't Windows.

My conclusion:
Windows 7 is an improvement on Vista. It also has a well developed UI and a consistent look and feel (Ubuntu doesn't).

Ubuntu is but one of dozens of Linux distros. If you don't like it's look and feel you can use Kubuntu/Xubuntu. Or, if you don't want to use a *buntu, you can use Fedora, SuSE, Mandriva, Slackware, Gentoo, Arch, PCLOS, and, well, you get the idea. Does Windoze give the user ANY choice? No.

I don't confine myself to one OS because of a phobia of large organizations, I use Ubuntu for what it's good at, and Windows for what it's good at.

Judging from your misinformed post, I find it hard to believe you have ever seriously used any Linux distro.


Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu? Not quite like comparing apples to oranges, but still a rather obscure comparison. If you must, though, Windows 7 beats Ubuntu to a pulp. Heck, Windows XP beats Ubuntu to a pulp.

It's easy to make a claim without any facts. And I have not seen one fact in your post which could lead an objective person to believe any Windows is better than Ubuntu. On the other hand, I could list many reasons why Ubuntu (or any Linux) beats Windows to a pulp.

Why do obvious trolls like yourself waste your time here in a futile effort to "convert" Linux users? Don't you realize that 99% of us have used Windows prior to switching to Linux? There is a reason we switched. And we don't plan on going back.

[3startuna]

The only advantage Linux has in this case is that many distros are bundled with Compiz by default.

Thats PRECISELY the point.

Put it this way, you can buy a honda civic (windows) and throw enough money on it to perform like a porsche

Or you can just get The porsche (Linux) from the get go FOR FREE

Why pay for less?

Linux wins :D

[graphius]

Yes, it can, with a third-party application called Vista/XP Virtual Desktop Manager. Check out the screenshots I attached.

A couple of years ago, when I was still debating on Linux (Ubuntu) vs Windows, I installed this app.
All I can say is I hope it has improved. It really felt like a bolted on kludge rather than the smooth multi-desktop in Gnome. I even prefer Gnome + Compiz over KDE for the way it handles multi-desktops.
Now whenever I have to go into windows I really miss having the space to spread out my apps. Windows is not designed to be multi-tasking.
ANd yes I did try out the windows 7 beta. It got a resounding "meh"

Just my opinion...

[3startuna]

Chrome is coming to Linux soon. There are Alpha builds already.



LOL



GIMP can do most of what Photoshop can. And you can even run many Photoshop plugins directly inside GIMP.



OpenOffice.



Picassa, DigiKam.



Huh? What in the world are you talking about?



That's weird. I have ran Ubuntu on Core i7's, Phenom II's, Core2Quads, Opeterons, etc. Any x86 CPU. Ubuntu also runs on Sparc, PPC, and a ton of others. Does Windows run on those?

Secondly, which OS had 64 bit support first? Nope, it wasn't Windows.



Ubuntu is but one of dozens of Linux distros. If you don't like it's look and feel you can use Kubuntu/Xubuntu. Or, if you don't want to use a *buntu, you can use Fedora, SuSE, Mandriva, Slackware, Gentoo, Arch, PCLOS, and, well, you get the idea. Does Windoze give the user ANY choice? No.



Judging from your misinformed post, I find it hard to believe you have ever seriously used any Linux distro.



It's easy to make a claim without any facts. And I have not seen one fact in your post which could lead an objective person to believe any Windows is better than Ubuntu. On the other hand, I could list many reasons why Ubuntu (or any Linux) beats Windows to a pulp.

Why do obvious trolls like yourself waste your time here in a futile effort to "convert" Linux users? Don't you realize that 99% of us have used Windows prior to switching to Linux? There is a reason we switched. And we don't plan on going back.

I agree with you the points he made make no sense. It shows that he doent really use linux or know much about it.

Their is NO WAY having used linux for any serious length of time that you can make claims like that and chose windows.

I dont know how its possible

[TheNosh]

To answer your question: Yes, it can, with a third-party application.

Now, answer me this: Can Linux do that without Compiz? The desktop cube is not an advantage of Linux; it's an advantage of Compiz, a third-party application. The only advantage Linux has in this case is that many distros are bundled with Compiz by default.

agreed good sir! arguing that anything is better just because of eye candy is ridiculus anyway. doesn't function matter any more?

[Giant Speck]

agreed good sir! arguing that anything is better just because of eye candy is ridiculus anyway. doesn't function matter any more?

Right. I'm not trying to argue about which operating system is better; I like both Windows and Linux very much. I'm just saying that many of the redeeming qualities of Compiz can also be enjoyed by those who use Windows.

There are a lot more important things to consider when comparing operating systems, and flashy desktop effects are not one of them.

[TheNosh]

Thats PRECISELY the point.

Put it this way, you can buy a honda civic (windows) and throw enough money on it to perform like a porsche

Or you can just get The porsche (Linux) from the get go FOR FREE

Why pay for less?

Linux wins :D

...i would love a free porsche

[Linux&Gsus]

...i would love a free porsche

But only if it's a Porsche Chayenne (or how ever they are called). I don't want to get stuck because of the first leaf on the road.
Seriously, if you make a car analogy then why not make it right? Why Porsche?? Have a Bugatti Veyron or Koenigsegg. Or why not an Atom? Do your homework, folks...

This whole thread is... and all the arguments and opinions and facts and stuff...
Well, better entertainment than TV. But other than that? It sounds like a bunch of kindergaten kids who had their toy stolen by their best friend. Or is this a teenagers "mine-is-longer" discussion?
I need more popcorn... :popcorn:

Cheers,
L&G (who still can't decide whether to laugh or cry about this thread)

[TheNosh]

still can't decide whether to laugh or cry about this thread

i go with laughing, but thats just me

[Linux&Gsus]

sounds good to me :lolflag:

[3startuna]

But only if it's a Porsche Chayenne (or how ever they are called). I don't want to get stuck because of the first leaf on the road.
Seriously, if you make a car analogy then why not make it right? Why Porsche?? Have a Bugatti Veyron or Koenigsegg. Or why not an Atom? Do your homework, folks...

This whole thread is... and all the arguments and opinions and facts and stuff...
Well, better entertainment than TV. But other than that? It sounds like a bunch of kindergaten kids who had their toy stolen by their best friend. Or is this a teenagers "mine-is-longer" discussion?
I need more popcorn... :popcorn:

Cheers,
L&G (who still can't decide whether to laugh or cry about this thread)

The porsche analogy was a good one. Reason being a porsche 911 is one of the few supercars, that is built to be an all purpose functional car. They are designed to be driven fast and aggressively even in the most trying conditions. I have worked on Porsche's in the past, and the reason they are so expensive is because they are expensive to produce. The technology is amazing its pure engineering and its super reliable.

If you have ever ran a linux OS on a older system (extreme conditions) you would get the point.

Linux is the porsche of the software world.

Windows is the stock civic. Right out the box its almost completely useless, but with enough money, time, yopu can get it to perform equally. And like the civic Windowns comes with the unreliability issues when modified (i.e. viruses, malware, crashing constantly).


PS. Linux users have the longest :)

Advantage Linux :D

[Linux&Gsus]

Oh oh, I guess I hit the mark here. ):P
I shall need an awful lot of popcorn... :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

@3startuna
Don't mean to pick on you. But, no, the Porsche 911 is for sure not an "all purpose functional car". Now the 911 is a very good car, exactly for what it's built. In that sense it might be more the equivalent to Mac OSX.
However, I doubt that anyone in their right mind would've driven the 911 to the camp site we've been a few weeks ago. A Cayenne yes, a (stock) 911, no. And before you comment on that, it was all the way official roads. As in "stock hardware", so to speak. Nothing really crazy.
However, the 911 would have gone there more likely than a e.g. a Koenigsegg, for sure. But both have trouble with those leafs on the road (HINT, HINT, HINT!!!).

And believe me, I do get the point. My newest computer is my laptop that was given to me. It's a really nice machine, I really can't complain. This one is roughly 3.5 years old, but has by no means been a state-of-the-art computer, ever. Lower middle class, at best.
A year older than that is the newest computer I purchased, build of the cheapest parts I could get.
Then I also have an about 7-8 year old desktop with a video card that I know has issues.

And It all runs the Kubuntu 9.04, with the full blown KDE4.2.
But boy, I can tell you, some of those "Porsches" have trouble and need a oil change at the very least.
Actually, what need here is more the Land Rover kinda deal. You know, those ones that can play rough. In fact with this 7+ year old desktop I'm testing if the Range Rover Sport still can play rough or only can go fast on a straight and smooth road. That is, I installed the newest and shiniest Kubuntu with EXT4 on known broke hardware.

Windows 7? I don't know if you wanna call it a Honda Civic or VW Golf or Citroen 2CV or Chrysler Voyager or [fill in your Windows-car here]. For sure unmodified it'll never be the Porsche or Land Rover or what ever you want your Linux to be. On the other hand, Porsche, Land Rover, etc unmodified will never be the other kinda things. Simply because they are not that. Same as Windows isn't Linux isn't OSX.
And to everyones horror, if we are honest, we must admit that those Civics and Golfs might be better for some people and/or under specific circumstances. Now guess what. I do have some 10 year old Windows games that to date don't work with Linux, not with WINE and no clone available, at least AFAIK. But I guess I will get over that in the next 20 years, or so.

Anyways, my Land Rover like Linux is doing what I really need. Games are always optional, nothing I need to get going on a daily basis.


Now I gotta stop. Popcorn is emtpy.
Cheers,
L&G

[tsali]

I think Porsche should go open-source with cars...

If all we had to pay for was the material to build the vehicle with the rest being the product of dedicated volunteers...wouldn't we certainly have the greatest car?

After all, the ONLY difference between a hunk of metal and plastic and a Porsche is the intelligence and labor...

;)

BTW, a Civic is certainly not "useless" out-of-the-box. If I had to take two friends and my dog to the park and I only had $5 for gas, I somehow think the Porsche would become suddenly "useless".

[pwnst*r]

multiple desktops is not impressive
every window manager I used with GNU+Linux has them with or without effects and without third party software
show us a screenshot of the expo effect on Windows, thanks

i never said it was impressive. and expo effect? that's just it, it's just an effect. not sure of your point there, but i don't see one.

thanks.

[jarrah-95]

Would it kill you just to go to windows forumn and enjoy it with the rest of the windows users, than waste some precious ubuntu forum space tell us how good windows is....

try to go to a wondows forumn and mention how good ubuntu is and see...

i did and i got 1 post in before that blocked litteraly for



You have been banned for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

Date the ban will be lifted: Never

so there you go if you want to do that it wont work

[k2t0f12d]

Right. I'm not trying to argue about which operating system is better; I like both Windows and Linux very much. I'm just saying that many of the redeeming qualities of Compiz can also be enjoyed by those who use Windows.

There are a lot more important things to consider when comparing operating systems, and flashy desktop effects are not one of them.

i never said it was impressive. and expo effect? that's just it, it's just an effect.My point is that few Compiz features are possible in Windows.
Multiple desktops is standard for most window managers in GNU+Linux, and is not a special feature provided by Compiz.
When exposed or criticized, the feature in question which is said to be available in Windows, but is not actually, is then said to be "non-functional" and therefore irrelevent.
Why then argue that Windows has the feature in the first place?
It would be helpful to tell which Compiz features can be duplicated in Windows and which are provided by Micro$oft and then the third-party programs that provide the rest.

[3startuna]

i did and i got 1 post in before that blocked litteraly for

so there you go if you want to do that it wont work

:D:D:D:D Thats the funniest thing ever

[3startuna]

I think Porsche should go open-source with cars...

If all we had to pay for was the material to build the vehicle with the rest being the product of dedicated volunteers...wouldn't we certainly have the greatest car?

After all, the ONLY difference between a hunk of metal and plastic and a Porsche is the intelligence and labor...

;)

BTW, a Civic is certainly not "useless" out-of-the-box. If I had to take two friends and my dog to the park and I only had $5 for gas, I somehow think the Porsche would become suddenly "useless".

no it wouldnt be useless.

Use the 5.00 to buy gas.

Put the dog in your friends lap or if its a 2+2 put the dog in the back seats.

take one friend and ask the other one to take the bus

the point is your getting a porsche for free, why would you not take it, and instead PAY for a civic.

[TheNosh]

My point is that few Compiz features are possible in Windows.
Multiple desktops is standard for most window managers in GNU+Linux, and is not a special feature provided by Compiz.
When exposed or criticized, the feature in question which is said to be available in Windows, but is not actually, is then said to be "non-functional" and therefore irrelevent.
Why then argue that Windows has the feature in the first place?
It would be helpful to tell which Compiz features can be duplicated in Windows and which are provided by Micro$oft and then the third-party programs that provide the rest.

i already said this, but seriously check out yod'm 3d and cube desktop. thats just about all your compiz effects right there and a few that aren't in compiz

[befana]

You argue here...
I didn't read everything.
But my Toshiba Satellite L4014F Windows7 is running more smoothly than Ubuntu, my wireless connection is faster, my CPU load is up to 20% - with Ubuntu it is at least 52%! And everything is faster when I use Windows7 (note - Windows7, not Vista!!!).

Ubuntu is missing something on my notebook. And I am not a geek, I am just a user.

Please, make Ubuntu work better!

[tsali]

no it wouldnt be useless.

Use the 5.00 to buy gas.

Put the dog in your friends lap or if its a 2+2 put the dog in the back seats.

take one friend and ask the other one to take the bus

the point is your getting a porsche for free, why would you not take it, and instead PAY for a civic.

Your explanation of how to make the porsche work sounds just like the workarounds that linux users often must implement.

No, the point is that the porsche doesn't serve my needs...so I have no use for it even if it is free. It is essentially useless.

Now the Civic DOES serve my need and I have to pay for it. I get something for the transaction.

And lest we forget, this is relevant to the comparison between software packages.

[Mirge]

If Windows works better for you, use Windows. Simple as that.

[UbunUsr]

I have installed Windows 7 RC (Build 7264),and i wanted to ask,is there a way to change core fonts?I noticed when i select Windows Classic in Personalization options,fonts are just like in XP.I want to use aero,but i want Tahoma font too.I tried to change some stuff in registry,i tried advanced apperance settings,but there are still some parts that are not tahoma,like Control Panel,or when you click the little arrow on shut down button to select restart,logoff etc..