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Tipped OuT
May 24th, 2009, 10:41 PM
http://www.apple.com/macosx/guidedtour/large.html

Wow, after watching that video, I was breathless. The time machine is brilliant, and the desktop is just simply beautiful. Very user friendly.


What do you guy's think of Mac OS X?

OutOfReach
May 24th, 2009, 10:43 PM
I've always wanted a Mac, they're just way too expensive...

billgoldberg
May 24th, 2009, 10:44 PM
http://www.apple.com/macosx/guidedtour/large.html

Wow, after watching that video, I was breathless. The time machine is brilliant, and the desktop is just simply beautiful. Very user friendly.


What do you guy's think of Mac OS X?

I don't think it's looks that great.

OSX isn't that user friendly if you have actually used it.

That and its extremely closed nature together with limited hardware choice is a real put-off for me.

Namtabmai
May 24th, 2009, 10:44 PM
I used OS X from the start of 10.0 up to and including 10.4, and after I got past the initial rounded corners and shading I found it nothing but a pain.

Way to restrictive for my liking. If I didn't think of thinks in OS X terms then I was out of luck. It offers nothing in the way of customising to enable me to use a computer on my terms.

Name change
May 24th, 2009, 10:44 PM
To tell you the truth I don't care for Mac...
I think that I've got all the eyecandy I need with KDE4...
And it costs more than a normal PC and things that are better than normal PC don't cost that much...
It does have a good hardware and OS that was built just for it. But that's that.

Sand & Mercury
May 24th, 2009, 10:45 PM
I've always wanted a Mac, they're just way too expensive...
This. :(

Joeb454
May 24th, 2009, 10:47 PM
I do really like OS X, I have to admit. And yes, I own a MacBook, which I adore, I think it's brilliant.

I know people would be happy to sit and argue with me about this for hours on end, but it's my opinion, I'm happy with it, if you don't want one, that's your choice :)

That said, I still use Ubuntu far more than I do OS X, just because I still prefer Ubuntu :)

Tipped OuT
May 24th, 2009, 10:51 PM
I do really like OS X, I have to admit. And yes, I own a MacBook, which I adore, I think it's brilliant.

I know people would be happy to sit and argue with me about this for hours on end, but it's my opinion, I'm happy with it, if you don't want one, that's your choice :)

That said, I still use Ubuntu far more than I do OS X, just because I still prefer Ubuntu :)

Same here pal. :)

Altough I don't own a Mac or Mac OS X for that matter. But I've been looking at a lot of videos and have been doing research on it. <snip>

Crafty Kisses
May 24th, 2009, 10:53 PM
I mean I've used Mac OS X and it's really not my cup of tea. I must say though it's really good at what it does and really easy and simple to use and I give it that. I think everyone knows if you're going to do some kind of video editing it probably will be on a Mac.

squeabs
May 24th, 2009, 10:59 PM
Macs are great tools for creativity (video editing, writing, music). They are a bit restrictive, but the folks who use them everyday, myself included, aren't going to be poking around the library files folder all the time or hacking it to pieces to see if something will work.
Macs are great, but so is Ubuntu.

mamamia88
May 24th, 2009, 10:59 PM
osx is cool and all but i just can't justify the price tag. ubuntu does everything a person would really want to do on a laptop and if i was going to spend the amount of money apple wanted for an imac i would build a decent gaming pc.

random_hypocrisy
May 24th, 2009, 11:03 PM
OSX really isnt as user friendly as Apple like to pretend...

Closed_Port
May 24th, 2009, 11:05 PM
Having worked with OSX on a daily basis for the past three years and having used it at home before that, I think that its an ok system, but certainly not brilliant.

The finder is anything but brilliant, the dock looks great but always got on my nerve, installing software is a mess, it can be really, really slow in a networked environment, ...

DLG102282
May 24th, 2009, 11:06 PM
Mac's are proprietary pieces of crap!

CJ Master
May 24th, 2009, 11:08 PM
Mac's are proprietary pieces of crap!

I was waiting for someone to come out yelling and screaming like an madman. ):P At least give reason why you think this.

Ms_Angel_D
May 24th, 2009, 11:11 PM
can't say I have never used it, though I am curious.

gymophett
May 24th, 2009, 11:12 PM
I don't think it's looks that great.

OSX isn't that user friendly if you have actually used it.

That and its extremely closed nature together with limited hardware choice is a real put-off for me.

+1, it's all hype. Nothing too cool.

hanzomon4
May 24th, 2009, 11:14 PM
After owning a macbook pro for a year... I have to say it's great. Granted it loses that mythical luster after awhile. It's not magic, but it works great and it looks good too. I've poked around a little, used macports and apt-get. While that was fun it wasn't a integrated as ports in BSD or apt-get in Ubuntu.

The few times that I broke something (while trying to install Ubuntu no less) I was amazed at how just like in Linux the CLI was there to save my... Even better a lot of the commands I learned in Ubuntu worked from the getgo in OS X.

ENough, ok... I think it's a great appliance ;)

Closed_Port
May 24th, 2009, 11:14 PM
I was waiting for someone to come out yelling and screaming like an madman. ):P At least give reason why you think this.
Huh? But he already gave a reason: it's propietary.

growled
May 24th, 2009, 11:19 PM
i've always wanted a mac, they're just way too expensive...
+1 :)

Screwdriver0815
May 24th, 2009, 11:22 PM
isn't it like that in a Mac that you have to drag&drop a file onto the icon of an application to open the file with this app?

This is something I am not used to and its also not natural in my eyes. But anyway... a friend of me has an old iMac with OS9 or how it is called... its not my piece of cake.

I also don't care that much about Mac's as Apple also doesn't care about Linux... the only thing which scares me is that they own the rights on CUPS... hopefully they don't do anything silly with it in the future

Closed_Port
May 24th, 2009, 11:45 PM
isn't it like that in a Mac that you have to drag&drop a file onto the icon of an application to open the file with this app?

Nope.



a friend of me has an old iMac with OS9 or how it is called... its not my piece of cake.

As this is about OSX, how is OS9, a completely different OS, relevant here?



the only thing which scares me is that they own the rights on CUPS...

They don't own the rights, they simply own CUPS.



hopefully they don't do anything silly with it in the future
It's licensed under the GPL and LGPL, so what are they supposed to do?

kc3
May 25th, 2009, 12:05 AM
I love Mac, I started on a MacSE actualy, I even found my old MacOS 8.5 CD today (sadly it was cracked) or I would have loaded it up in an emulator. MacOS X is a realy good system I think, Apple have always been very inovative in my opinion however I still say Linux is better. I also don't want to fork out the money for a Mac (not that I have to worry) I have a DVD of MacOSX86 but I still choose to use Linux :D

Skripka
May 25th, 2009, 12:08 AM
The only thing I liked about it for the year or so I used Leopard, in terms of features and usability was Time Machine and Expose. You cannot tweak, you cannot customize...and everything is setup in a generally upside down and backwards manner.

Wiebelhaus
May 25th, 2009, 12:13 AM
It's fantastic , I love it but prefer FOSS.

kc3
May 25th, 2009, 12:15 AM
Yeah, my only problem is customization, but being as I used MacOS and Windows for so long it's not a big issue to me, I just won't likely go back to it :P

Xbehave
May 25th, 2009, 12:16 AM
os X is too expensive! I cant wait for COWIt will make timemachine type stuff easy (although propper backups will still be needed in case of on disk corruption

schauerlich
May 25th, 2009, 12:17 AM
os X is too expensive!

The OS itself is actually quite cheap compared to windows, and doesn't come with any registration codes or anything. That means that a single install disk and the family pack are identical DVDs, they just come with different licenses.

Tipped OuT
May 25th, 2009, 12:27 AM
I think Mac OS X is made for the people who do not care how there computer functions and just see it as no more then there television set... just something you turn on and use, and don't ask questions. It's for the people who just want a computer that works and easy to use.

People can complain how much it costs, but you pay for the hardware and the software. Which means there shouldn't be any problems with drivers, or anything malfunctioning (that's not user error). Why? Because the operating system will be optimized for that hardware, unlike Windows or Linux, which have to be universal and can't focus to perfect a set of hardware.

You have to admit, Linux is not really to good on the "Just Works" category. Requires some tweaking and a little know how. But for some people like us, it's no big deal, but for the real world, it is.

mamamia88
May 25th, 2009, 12:29 AM
I think Mac OS X is made for the people who do not care how there computer functions and just see it as no more then there television set... just something you turn on and use, and don't ask questions. It's for the people who just want a computer that works and easy to use.

People can complain how much it costs, but you pay for the hardware and the software. Which means there shouldn't be any problems with drivers, or anything malfunctioning (that's not user error). Why? Because the operating system will be optimized for that hardware, unlike Windows or Linux, which have to be universal and can't focus to perfect a set of hardware.

You have to admit, Linux is not really to good on the "Just Works" category. Requires some tweaking and a little know how. But for some people like us, it's no big deal, but for the real world, it is.

yeah for most people the idea of spending an afternoon installing the os and setting it up exactly how you like it isn't exactly fun. but for some people like us it's a great way to kill time when bored

thisllub
May 25th, 2009, 12:29 AM
Mouse movement and dependence is extreme on a MAC. That makes it the clumsiest UI for a power user.
This leads to more RSI and slower user operation.

I think of them like VW Beetles. A solid design that never has nor will be the best that has a religious like appeal to followers.

issih
May 25th, 2009, 12:40 AM
Mouse movement and dependence is extreme on a MAC. That makes it the clumsiest UI for a power user.
This leads to more RSI and slower user operation.


Um..not true.. they allow you to do everything with a mouse but it is not required. They are very customisable as far as keyboard shortcuts go, right down to allowing user configured shortcuts for any menu item in any application. I do more keyboard stuff on my macbook than anything else including linux.

Secondarily the global menu items are quite consistently laid out so the same keyboard shortcuts will trigger preferences across many apps etc.

Thirdly the ergonomics of the touchpad on a macbook kick the **** of any other trackpad I've ever used, and before you jump into saying I'm being ridiculous, bear in mind the 2 finger scroll and the fact that the right click is 2 fingers down and click the button. I don't have to contort my hand at all to achieve all mouse functionality..one position does it all.

OS-X is nice, and I probably use it as much as linux, they both have their faults though, neither is perfect by any means.

I have to admit though, that the crowd who claim macs are not customisable baffle me, macs have folder actions, scripts, automator and smart folders, they give you more tools to allow you to customise your workflow than just about anything else (except maybe linux :)). Fair enough the interface is pretty much set in stone, but I like it, so thats fine by me.

schauerlich
May 25th, 2009, 12:43 AM
Mouse movement and dependence is extreme on a MAC. That makes it the clumsiest UI for a power user.
This leads to more RSI and slower user operation.

Look into QuickSilver (http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/14831). It's what gnome-do is based on, except quicksilver actually works well. It also gives you the ability to assign applications to certain keys. For instance, I have 7 F keys with no default assignment on my keyboard. I can assign Mail to F13, Safari to F15, and Terminal to F19. When I hit F15 and Safari is NOT open, it opens it. If it IS open, it switches to the last active window from Safari. In essence, it simulates a mouse click on the dock icon. It makes navigation with the keyboard quite easy. I find it easier than on Ubuntu, too, because I don't have to cycle through alt-tab (OS X has an equivalent functionality)

dragos240
May 25th, 2009, 12:45 AM
I have never tried it. I can't comment.

Tipped OuT
May 25th, 2009, 01:04 AM
I have to admit though, that the crowd who claim macs are not customisable baffle me, macs have folder actions, scripts, automator and smart folders, they give you more tools to allow you to customise your workflow than just about anything else (except maybe linux :)). Fair enough the interface is pretty much set in stone, but I like it, so thats fine by me.

Yeah, you can mod the UI a little bit though. Look here: http://interfacelift.com/themes-mac/

hanzomon4
May 25th, 2009, 01:32 AM
Um..not true.. they allow you to do everything with a mouse but it is not required. They are very customisable as far as keyboard shortcuts go, right down to allowing user configured shortcuts for any menu item in any application. I do more keyboard stuff on my macbook than anything else including linux.

Secondarily the global menu items are quite consistently laid out so the same keyboard shortcuts will trigger preferences across many apps etc.

Thirdly the ergonomics of the touchpad on a macbook kick the **** of any other trackpad I've ever used, and before you jump into saying I'm being ridiculous, bear in mind the 2 finger scroll and the fact that the right click is 2 fingers down and click the button. I don't have to contort my hand at all to achieve all mouse functionality..one position does it all.

OS-X is nice, and I probably use it as much as linux, they both have their faults though, neither is perfect by any means.

I have to admit though, that the crowd who claim macs are not customisable baffle me, macs have folder actions, scripts, automator and smart folders, they give you more tools to allow you to customise your workflow than just about anything else (except maybe linux :)). Fair enough the interface is pretty much set in stone, but I like it, so thats fine by me.

+1

you can even change the look. It really gets me how power linux users are stumped by OS X. I mean I used Ubuntu for 2 years before I had a crack at OS X and figured it out quite well. I would think that linux users who are more experienced then me and who are always bemoaning "stupid" users who refuse to give something different a far shake can't grasp simple things in OS X, like right clicking without pressing control or whatever. I really think it's simple bias... I mean at the least I'd think you would try apt-geting something or recompiling the kernel.

CJ Master
May 25th, 2009, 01:40 AM
Huh? But he already gave a reason: it's propietary.

Being proprietary does not make anything "a piece of crap." It makes it so people can not see the code. This does not change what the software is. (:

djdarrin91
May 25th, 2009, 01:42 AM
I think its an ok OS,but i still won't use it.I've had macs and i just never got to really like them.I'm sure the newer macs are pretty nice but i will be using Ubuntu and maybe xp if i really have to:)

raymondh
May 25th, 2009, 01:45 AM
I like macs ....

N4zgu1
May 25th, 2009, 01:51 AM
I tried mac os x recently, it is ok but its nothing special, and it is not worth the price.

zurack
May 25th, 2009, 02:00 AM
I have a had an iMac (top spec) now for about two months and generally love it though it's not without problems one of these being the well known horrible modding options, If one could customise Mac like we can in Linux it would be the "perfect" OS.

Corelogik
May 25th, 2009, 02:05 AM
I love my Mac's. They have been very good to me over the last 8-9yrs. I just can't afford the hardware right now and I need new computers.

I plan to get more Mac's in the future. Just not now. I really wish that Apple would release OS X for other hardware than their own. I would be in heaven.

Keithhed
May 25th, 2009, 02:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pAtrIag1No&feature=player_embedded

kerplow!

TheNosh
May 25th, 2009, 02:16 AM
...if you wanna use BSD you can get it for free

pwnst*r
May 25th, 2009, 02:39 AM
i'd like to get one but am currently in need of a bigger desk for my home office so i could fit it.

init1
May 25th, 2009, 03:20 AM
Haven't used a Mac OS since System 7, so I can't really say.

JetskiDude911
May 25th, 2009, 03:20 AM
I love OS X. I never got one due to the price, but when it came time to buy a new computer 2 years ago, I decided to go for it and bought an iMac. I love it. I still have the computer, and haven't had one single problem out of it. I plan to use it for another 2 years, then perhaps look into getting a new computer if I feel like I need one at the time (more than likely I won't as this one still does everything I need it to at this point.

arsenic23
May 25th, 2009, 03:26 AM
I don't really dislike it or like it one way or another.

I could use OSX as my main OS if it came down to it, but I really don't like some of the programs that come with it.

Also, when I'm forced to use it for a long time I find myself missing certain command line tools that I could easily install on BSD/linux but have never bothered figuring out how/if I could put them on whatever Mac I'm using at that time (also since any Mac I'm using would belong to someone else installing software would be rude).

In short: it is ok, but just feels like a crippled BSD to me.

pwnst*r
May 25th, 2009, 03:33 AM
...if you wanna use BSD you can get it for free

yes, because that's the same thing.

.Maleficus.
May 25th, 2009, 03:40 AM
...if you wanna use BSD you can get it for free
I knew someone would say that.


Anyways, I've only used it for a short while at work, but it seems nice enough. I'll probably buy a Macbook when I go to college and triple boot it (Windows for certain software, OS X for Xcode + iPhone SDK and Arch for everything else). And as far as OS X being expensive goes - it's pretty damn cheap actually. It's no Linux but a full version of 10.5.6 is only $129.

Warpnow
May 25th, 2009, 05:36 AM
Being proprietary does not make anything "a piece of crap." It makes it so people can not see the code. This does not change what the software is. (:

Being proprietary is not the same as being closed source.

If I built the fastest car in the world, but it only ran on a road that costs ten million dollars a foot, that car would be a piece of crap regardless of merits, because its useless to the end user.

SunnyRabbiera
May 25th, 2009, 05:36 AM
OSX is a good system, but feels much too restrictive.

Warpnow
May 25th, 2009, 05:38 AM
I knew someone would say that.


Anyways, I've only used it for a short while at work, but it seems nice enough. I'll probably buy a Macbook when I go to college and triple boot it (Windows for certain software, OS X for Xcode + iPhone SDK and Arch for everything else). And as far as OS X being expensive goes - it's pretty damn cheap actually. It's no Linux but a full version of 10.5.6 is only $129.

...Licensed only to run on their hardware. So, yeah, you can look at the cost of the OS, but that's like suggesting that the cost of decorating a house is the total cost of building it.

ade234uk
May 25th, 2009, 06:05 AM
Some good friends of ours have a macbook. To be quite honest with you, I was suprised to find whilst using it, that Ubuntu is far more user friendly than Mac.

Secondly I was expecting this machine to be quick, but again I was very suprised at how slow it was compared to my laptop.

Booting was nothing special eother, again my laptop boots quicker, and shutdown. My laptop still shut downs in about 10 seconds.

schauerlich
May 25th, 2009, 06:13 AM
...if you wanna use BSD you can get it for free

BSD:Mac OS X::Linux+coreutils:Ubuntu

Gentoo is pretty much ubuntu, right?

TheNosh
May 25th, 2009, 06:20 AM
yes, because that's the same thing.

I was simply making a tounge in cheek comment on where they get some of their OS, It was meant to be humourous not serious, sorry if you did not take it as such

the8thstar
May 25th, 2009, 06:24 AM
I fiddled with it at the Apple Store several times. I appreciate the way the software works (iLife), but the fonts look blurry and they are not all the same size on the desktop, which makes it look cumbersome and somewhat unbalanced. I do like the interface to an extent though, so I transformed my Gnome desktop to look like OSX (Mac4Lin + AWN). But it's pure Linux underneath.

IMO and at this point in time, Windows 7 RC is better than OSX. And if I wanted to shell out the money to get software that gets the job done, I would just buy Windows and Adobe products. This way I could spare some cash on more powerful hardware instead of shoving it in Steve Jobs pockets.

schauerlich
May 25th, 2009, 06:33 AM
This way I could spare some cash on more powerful hardware instead of shoving it in Steve Jobs pockets.

Steve Jobs has a $1 a year salary. So you're just shoving money into the pockets of people in whom Steve Jobs has invested, and the appreciation therein creates a money-pocket shoving mechanism.

the8thstar
May 25th, 2009, 06:54 AM
I was using a figure of speech to designate the whole Apple company by naming only Steve Jobs.

tbroderick
May 25th, 2009, 07:24 AM
I'm actually saving for a Mac Mini. Waiting until after Snow Leopard is released to buy. Unless I get really impatient and buy something like a cheap Lenovo desktop first and stick with Linux. Both the Mac Mini and Lenovo desktop are rated EPEAT Gold which is a strong selling point for me.

schauerlich
May 25th, 2009, 07:31 AM
I was using a figure of speech to designate the whole Apple company by naming only Steve Jobs.

There you go with your metonymy again.

(by the way, I was counter irony-ing your ironic post)

jrusso2
May 25th, 2009, 07:32 AM
Steve Jobs has a $1 a year salary. So you're just shoving money into the pockets of people in whom Steve Jobs has invested, and the appreciation therein creates a money-pocket shoving mechanism.

There is more compensation than a dollar a year salary. Think about it.

schauerlich
May 25th, 2009, 07:35 AM
There is more compensation than a dollar a year salary. Think about it.

There is more to my post than just the words. Think about it.

don_quixote
May 25th, 2009, 09:04 AM
I have a mini in the house (my other half works in media where Macs are the de facto standard), and I think I prefer Windows 7....

I've had far too many issues with a Mac OS X to love it; far from 'just works,' especially when something needs customization. It also forces its 'my way or the highway' workflow on you, which I'm not a great fan of. It's not all bad, however, and it's really easy on the eyes. Still, I'd never buy it, personally.

KiwiNZ
May 25th, 2009, 09:57 AM
I use OSX on a Imac and a Macbook Pro it is an excellent operating system.

But I have said many times , its horses for courses , If windows does what you need , and you like it ..use it , If OSX does what you need and you like it ...use it , If Linux does what you need and you like it .. use it.

Simple as that .

I use all three for different purposes. All are good.

schauerlich
May 25th, 2009, 10:05 AM
But I have said many times , its horses for courses , If windows does what you need , and you like it ..use it , If OSX does what you need and you like it ...use it , If Linux does what you need and you like it .. use it.

This is the internet, Kiwi. There's no middle ground. You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists. Pick a side. We're at war.

KiwiNZ
May 25th, 2009, 10:10 AM
This is the internet, Kiwi. There's no middle ground. You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists. Pick a side. We're at war.


I 'm a hippy , I hate no-one and no thing , except Broccolli and Brussell Spouts

Mazza558
May 25th, 2009, 10:21 AM
When I get my MacBook in July, I'm going to be triple-booting it with Ubuntu, OSX and Windows 7. I simply can't go wrong with this combination - the Mac experience, combined with the customisability and utility of ubuntu, plus the gaming ability of Windows (the newer macbooks have decent graphics cards which can play games like Half-life 2 at around 40 fps). It's going to be the best of hardware and software :D

koshatnik
May 25th, 2009, 11:00 AM
http://www.apple.com/macosx/guidedtour/large.html

Wow, after watching that video, I was breathless. The time machine is brilliant, and the desktop is just simply beautiful.

I use an OS as a tool, I don't spend much time staring at it.



Very user friendly.


No such thing as user friendly. There is familiar and not familiar but no such thing as user friendly. The dashboard of a 747 is user friendly... to an airline pilot. I had no idea how to install anything in OSX when i first used it, I had to read up on it. If it was that user friendly I would have done it straight away. Then there are other idiosyncracies, as all OS's have.


What do you guy's think of Mac OS X?

Bloated and slow. Wish they'd speed it up, sick of 64 bit apps running like a tortoise through treacle.

3rdalbum
May 25th, 2009, 11:35 AM
The only thing that's "amazing" about Mac OS X is that it's not anywhere near to the hype that surrounds it.

I used OS 9 for years and quite liked it. I used early versions of OS X and very much disliked it. I switched to Linux and used Gnome for a few years, and recently I revisited OS X Leopard on a friend's computer. I had previously been a little worried about using OS X Leopard, because I'd heard all the hype about how brilliant it was, and I didn't want to be all impressed about OS X and then go back to a boring Gnome desktop.

Well, my fears were completely unfounded. Mac OS X looks kinda nice, and it does actually work... mostly. But contrary to what I'd been hearing, nothing about it blew me out of my seat. I think the bit that I most liked was the visual effect when switching from normal mode to the Dashboard, but the effect was choppy on the Macbook Air I was using. Gee, Apple makes the hardware AND the operating system - you'd think it would make sure the effect could be smooth on all their current computers.

Oh, and the wireless card connected to the network very quickly... once I figured out that OS X doesn't support WEP passphrases. I came across about a dozen Mac owners on a forum who couldn't access their WEP networks, and Apple's claim that you can use a passphrase in OS X for WEP, but no advice that the passphrase doesn't work. Inputting the key worked fine.

From a technical standpoint, Microsoft has nothing to worry about from Apple. And even if Snow Leopard came out tomorrow and competed directly with Vista, I think the engineers in Redmond would still sleep easy.

aschwerin.moses
May 25th, 2009, 11:38 AM
I dont find MAC that interesting, its just the fanboys who are making a big deal out of it. Whats so special about it, i can get my ubuntu look much better than how a MAC does and can use any DE and WM.

I find explorer much easier to use than Finder. People may not agree with this but yes i do. Explan a Finder windows and the folders in it do not arrange by themselves automatically, i have to right click and arrange them manually. Well this is just one feature that is sad considering that Apple says that Leopard is the most advanced operating system.

Security: Nothing better than Linux
Eye Candy: Nothing better than Gnome and KDE.. can make them look much better than MAC
User Friendly: Sorry, i did not find MAC user friendly. The only user friendly thing that i found in MAC is installing softwares.

ps: apple fanboys have no life...

Sashin
May 25th, 2009, 11:49 AM
All those iChat features are awesome. So is time machine, coverflow and quicklook.

It would be nice if linux had features like this.

Note: There's more about mac I don't like than like but I'm not going to go there.

3rdalbum
May 25th, 2009, 12:17 PM
Security: Nothing better than Linux

Considerably worse. Linux tends to "get it right" first go, Apple gets it wrong and then either patches it (implementation problem) or ignores it (architectural problem - can't be fixed without breaking third-party applications).

It's exceedingly rare to find architectural security problems in GNU/Linux or Linux distributions, and even then they can often be fixed in time. Linux changes so much and so quickly, that parts of the operating system can be redesigned and within a year every distribution is working perfectly with the newly-designed subsystem.

malcam
May 25th, 2009, 01:33 PM
I've forced myself to exclusively use OS X for several months (after doing the same for Ubuntu prior), and I think it's a nice platform. Feels a lot like what I remember of the 90s Amiga Workbenches (which is a huge positive) and is very, very stable compared to Ubuntu - something that really bothered me.

I think it's an ideal platform for a web developer, as well as all the normal Apple user stereotypes. It does take a lot of getting used to, you have to do things using their way of thinking, which I guess is part of the reason for the stability (i.e. it's not over engineered for every user type). Once you get used to it, the OS essentially becomes invisible, which is, what an OS is supposed to do IMO.

Currently I have Windows XP, Windows 7 and a load of Linux distros set up through Virtual Box, so I have no real need for any other computer.

All that said, there are things I don't like: a lack of a package manager and a lack of good open source or freeware utilities, the good ones are almost always shareware.

LarsKongo
May 25th, 2009, 01:50 PM
What I love about OSX is the interface. I haven't even tried it, but just by looking at it I can feel how productive I can become with it. The dock is however 1 thing (only thing?) that I find to be a miss in the interface design. It takes too much place, and the way it manages open applications with icons is a bit confusing, a document or application must also have a really good recognizeable icon if I'm supposed to find it - which isn't always the case when a custom icon theme is used (or a lesser known application without an icon).

The best part about the interface is the lack of ugly menus everywhere. I absolutely hate the File, Edit... menu in Gnome, KDE, Windows etc. The windows just feels much more artistic without a lot of text. (But how productive is it? I dunno, haven't tried it.) :P

But the interface alone doesn't justify the price tag. It also lacks in customization for someone like me that would love to style and rearrange some parts of the interface.

dragos240
May 25th, 2009, 02:17 PM
i dont find mac that interesting, its just the fanboys who are making a big deal out of it. Whats so special about it, i can get my ubuntu look much better than how a mac does and can use any de and wm.

I find explorer much easier to use than finder. People may not agree with this but yes i do. Explan a finder windows and the folders in it do not arrange by themselves automatically, i have to right click and arrange them manually. Well this is just one feature that is sad considering that apple says that leopard is the most advanced operating system.

Security: Nothing better than linux
eye candy: Nothing better than gnome and kde.. Can make them look much better than mac
user friendly: Sorry, i did not find mac user friendly. The only user friendly thing that i found in mac is installing softwares.

Ps: Apple fanboys have no life...

+1

stimpack
May 25th, 2009, 02:49 PM
I have a Macbook, would not get another one. I find OSX extremely restrictive and that is just not my style. I also find the whole Apple teen image somewhat obnoxious.

Mac forums (well Apple forums... they tend to worship the whole companies range), lack critique, which again is not my style. As an example, Apples DotMac should have been slammed so hard by the Mac communities that Apple were forced to improve it immediately, but they can't criticise, and DotMac lived for quite a while.

subdivision
May 25th, 2009, 03:03 PM
Meh. OSX is okay, but I wouldn't call it amazing.

mcduck
May 25th, 2009, 03:07 PM
I use OSX about as much as I use Ubuntu. I've found it to be quite OK, definitely better than Windows but not nearly as nice as Ubuntu.

Looks quite OK, although a bit boring and apart from changing the wallpaper there's hardly anything that one can do about it. So in the end my Ubuntu desktop looks better.

It has some nice features, and some really annoying ones. For example I really like Growl and the way how almost every app uses it, but at the same time I just can't understand why I can't delete files by pressing the delete button.. :P

Most of the time it works great without any real problems, but when something doesn't work right it's either impossible to fix it, or to find out what exactly is the problem and what to do about it.

..and no, I definitely didn't get a mac because of advertisements, or because they look nice, it's just the industry standard tool for the work I do so I'll have to use one, like it or not.

I'd say I like it but just not as much as I like Ubuntu. It's nice but it doesn't feel like my own desktop the way Ubuntu does.

Giant Speck
May 25th, 2009, 03:12 PM
Meh. OSX is okay, but I wouldn't call it amazing.

+1

Though, I would never call any operating system "amazing."

dragos240
May 25th, 2009, 03:14 PM
+1

Though, I would never call any operating system "amazing."

I would call arch and ubuntu amazing.

Giant Speck
May 25th, 2009, 03:15 PM
I would call arch and ubuntu amazing.

Well, then I'm happy ArchLinux and Ubuntu are amazing for you. I'm not going to try to trample over your opinions just because I feel differently.

adzik
May 25th, 2009, 04:17 PM
I too, wouldn't call OSX/mac amazing.
It is what it is: an OS/personal computing product.
I have used macs, and it's core stability comes from it's BSD/Mach kernel legacy. The fact that they use an entirely different framework around it is what makes it proprietary, and honestly, does make it a very complete system.
I also wouldn't call Mac innovative either, considering their OS is not ultimately even their idea (freeBSD/NetBSD/Mach/openstep) - a mish mash of open source and proprietary (purchased) company.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X

Honestly, the only thing that interested me initially in macs, was that they allowed for production level audio and music creation/recording, which now linux has anyway with it's realtime kernel support.

If you really like the mac interface that much, but prefer gnu/linux,
you can always use the Lin-X distribution based on Ubuntu,
although I don't know the legality of using the icons and such, but it demonstrates the customizable superiority of linux.

hanzomon4
May 25th, 2009, 04:23 PM
I don't know wasn't all the Openstep/Nextstep code pretty innovative?

bryonak
May 25th, 2009, 04:37 PM
I've used OSX 10.4 and 10.5... in fact I'm "dual booting" on this computer (a MBP). The quotes are there because I can't remember when I booted into OSX last time since 2007.
The main reason for me not to use OSX is the restrictiveness (excessive hand holding) and the lack of software. OSX has some cool apps, but both wine (should have improved recently! haven't tried it yet though) and X (just looks off) aren't well supported.

As for the looks... it is very well executed, but I simply don't like the glossy/candy look (rather the scrollbars/internal buttons than the title bar buttons... latter are easily changeable). Personal preference of course, but I find my current Gnome theme much more beautiful (and sober).
Good thing there are such sites (http://interfacelift.com/themes-mac/) for OSX.

pwnst*r
May 25th, 2009, 04:39 PM
I would call arch and ubuntu amazing.

how surprising!

adzik
May 25th, 2009, 04:49 PM
Yes, openstep was different, but innovative on it's own, that's a personal view I suppose.

I forgot to link to Lin-X for reference - Lin-X website here (http://lin-x.info).

TheNosh
May 25th, 2009, 07:03 PM
i 'm a hippy , i hate no-one and no thing , except broccolli and brussell spouts

+1

pwnst*r
May 25th, 2009, 07:04 PM
Yes, openstep was different, but innovative on it's own, that's a personal view I suppose.

I forgot to link to Lin-X for reference - Lin-X website here (http://lin-x.info).

how poor.

hessiess
May 25th, 2009, 08:02 PM
OSX, being UNIX based is a much better OS than anything MS could come up with (unless Windows was re-written as a UNIX), although it has too much useless eye candy. It is somewhat limiting and not very customisable, but nether is Windows. If I *HAD* to use a commercial OS for something, i.e. Photoshop, then OSX is the only OS that I would consider(Photoshops interface on Windows is AWFUL)

bfc
May 25th, 2009, 08:16 PM
I've been a Desktop Linux user for a long time, over 10 years, however, I've started to slowly transistion over to OS X.

For the first month of using OSX, I absolutely hated it, and found it very confining. Every update seemed to require a reboot, which drove me nuts. But as I used it longer, I found myself liking it.

OS X is the most stable OS I've used on a laptop. It suspends/resumes perfectly. It never needs a reboot, my uptime on a laptop has been months, and then, the only reboots were for updates, I've never had it crash on me.

I didn't want to be impressed and was going to wipe OSX and put Linux on the MacBook Pro, but for now I will be sticking with OSX

TheNosh
May 25th, 2009, 08:21 PM
OSX, being UNIX based is a much better OS than anything MS could come up with (unless Windows was re-written as a UNIX)

unix/unix-like is not the be all and end all, windows developement does not need to conform to unix-like systems to improve, just take a look at the win 7 developement. (it's pretty cool stuff)

also if an entirely new style of system were to emerge it isn't impossible that it would become the best (still subject to personal prefference, ie: nothing is really "best") so acting as though unix-like is the pinicle of perfection and cannot be improved on is kinda silly

this isn't to say that OS X isn't better than windows, it may be for your needs. i just think your reasoning of it being Unix based is a little off

tubezninja
May 25th, 2009, 08:49 PM
I was using a figure of speech to designate the whole Apple company by naming only Steve Jobs.

I think the past six months have made it clearer than ever that Apple != Steve Jobs. If you want to criticize Apple, criticize Apple. It requires fewer keystrokes, anyway.

At any rate, for all the Apple-bashing I see in this thread, I think people on this forum fail to appreciate how much of a "gateway-drug" OS X is to a number of users into *nix environments, including linux. I know a lot of people who were outright scared to consider linux as a platform, but did so after switching to a Mac and realizing that unix-like systems aren't so bad. Once a Mac user gets exposed to the terminal, it's not hard for them to make the leap into Ubuntu and other linux distros. You can count me as one of those people.

Granted, I still use Macs and find plenty of positive qualities in them. Using it as a platform also opens your eyes to the incredibly amount of hypocrisy in the linux community. For al the talk of accusing Microsoft of FUD, linux folks do an awful good job of manufacturing your own (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7340158&postcount=21). Since Apple is so closed and restrictive and evil, Should we also be frightened to use WebKit or CalDAV?

Corelogik
May 25th, 2009, 09:02 PM
i think the past six months have made it clearer than ever that apple != steve jobs. If you want to criticize apple, criticize apple. It requires fewer keystrokes, anyway.

At any rate, for all the apple-bashing i see in this thread, i think people on this forum fail to appreciate how much of a "gateway-drug" os x is to a number of users into *nix environments, including linux. I know a lot of people who were outright scared to consider linux as a platform, but did so after switching to a mac and realizing that unix-like systems aren't so bad. Once a mac user gets exposed to the terminal, it's not hard for them to make the leap into ubuntu and other linux distros. You can count me as one of those people.

Granted, i still use macs and find plenty of positive qualities in them. Using it as a platform also opens your eyes to the incredibly amount of hypocrisy in the linux community. For al the talk of accusing microsoft of fud, linux folks do an awful good job of manufacturing your own (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7340158&postcount=21). Since apple is so closed and restrictive and evil, should we also be frightened to use webkit or caldav?

qft!

paullinux
May 25th, 2009, 09:19 PM
Actually no one is talking about the software-side. Every Apple comes with excellent software. I have yet to see any decent rival on linux for Iphoto, Imovie and Itunes. It's GUI and ease of use is lightyears ahead.

Granted: the Finder sucks, Coverflow is beautiful but useless, changing the appearance is very limited. There's not much to tamper on. It is a closed system, but on the other side a VERY stable one.

So yes it is amazing for it's included software and it's stability but that's about it.

chris200x9
May 25th, 2009, 10:14 PM
not brilliant enough to stay on my macbook...;)

collinp
May 25th, 2009, 11:01 PM
I've used Mac OS X 10.5, it looks nice and is good for the average user. I prefer Linux over it, though, because OS X is so restrictive in terms of customization.

fairyliquidizer
May 25th, 2009, 11:48 PM
OSX, being UNIX based is a much better OS than anything MS could come up with (unless Windows was re-written as a UNIX), although it has too much useless eye candy. It is somewhat limiting and not very customisable, but nether is Windows. If I *HAD* to use a commercial OS for something, i.e. Photoshop, then OSX is the only OS that I would consider(Photoshops interface on Windows is AWFUL)

OS X only became UNIX-based with Leopard and is a strange chimera of an OS. It's very much like iTunes does what it does well enough but it may not do what you want.

As a retired UN*X programmer who has done a lot of systems programming I have to say that Windows 7 looks like an excellent design with some excellent security features. The shared library system of UN*X family OSs causes a lot more problems than the DLL system of windows these days.

Don't get me wrong I love Ubuntu but sometimes it seams like UN*X=perfect on the forums whereas it has weaknesses too.

schauerlich
May 26th, 2009, 12:00 AM
OS X only became UNIX-based with Leopard and is a strange chimera of an OS.

Just because they didn't pass the SUSv3 until Leopard doesn't mean it wasn't Unix-based before then.

Daisuke_Aramaki
May 26th, 2009, 12:04 AM
i have never used a Mac. so i have no opinion.

hanzomon4
May 26th, 2009, 04:13 AM
OS X only became UNIX-based with Leopard and is a strange chimera of an OS. It's very much like iTunes does what it does well enough but it may not do what you want.

As a retired UN*X programmer who has done a lot of systems programming I have to say that Windows 7 looks like an excellent design with some excellent security features. The shared library system of UN*X family OSs causes a lot more problems than the DLL system of windows these days.

Don't get me wrong I love Ubuntu but sometimes it seams like UN*X=perfect on the forums whereas it has weaknesses too.

OS X has been Unix based since the beginning, It didn't become an official UNIX until Leopard and the Official branding is only on intel hardware.

cprofitt
May 26th, 2009, 04:26 AM
I was waiting for someone to come out yelling and screaming like an madman. ):P At least give reason why you think this.

I think PROPRIETARY was his reason; I have my own...



they are over priced - badly in most segments. Though is one they are competitive to the point of costing less as long as you are willing to swap professional gear for consumer level gear
the company that supports OS X lacks quality support at an enterprise level
the company that supports OS X often fixes 'bugs' by making you buy the next version of the OS
the hardware OS X is 'allowed' to run on is restricted in ways that I find unacceptable (not price, but hardware choice)
patches for OS X are often slow to appear (see DNS patch for a recent example)
OS X currently does not use memory randomization
OS X currently allows stack execution

If Apple were to sell OS X for non-Apple gear I might consider purchasing a copy... it would be better than Vista for a home user, but given the price and restrictions to hardware choice inflicted upon the users by Apple it is not an option.

cprofitt
May 26th, 2009, 04:30 AM
Actually no one is talking about the software-side. Every Apple comes with excellent software. I have yet to see any decent rival on linux for Iphoto, Imovie and Itunes. It's GUI and ease of use is lightyears ahead.

Granted: the Finder sucks, Coverflow is beautiful but useless, changing the appearance is very limited. There's not much to tamper on. It is a closed system, but on the other side a VERY stable one.

So yes it is amazing for it's included software and it's stability but that's about it.

Its GUI is good... but not light years ahead.

iMovie, iPhoto etc all come with the purchase of a new Mac, but they do not come with OS X.

the8thstar
June 1st, 2009, 09:25 PM
I think the past six months have made it clearer than ever that Apple != Steve Jobs. If you want to criticize Apple, criticize Apple. It requires fewer keystrokes, anyway.

At any rate, for all the Apple-bashing I see in this thread, I think people on this forum fail to appreciate how much of a "gateway-drug" OS X is to a number of users into *nix environments, including linux. I know a lot of people who were outright scared to consider linux as a platform, but did so after switching to a Mac and realizing that unix-like systems aren't so bad. Once a Mac user gets exposed to the terminal, it's not hard for them to make the leap into Ubuntu and other linux distros. You can count me as one of those people.

Granted, I still use Macs and find plenty of positive qualities in them. Using it as a platform also opens your eyes to the incredibly amount of hypocrisy in the linux community. For al the talk of accusing Microsoft of FUD, linux folks do an awful good job of manufacturing your own (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7340158&postcount=21). Since Apple is so closed and restrictive and evil, Should we also be frightened to use WebKit or CalDAV?

Your opinion is well... your opinion. I think you did not understand what I said in my post.

DeadSuperHero
June 1st, 2009, 10:02 PM
I've honestly come to dislike the Mac OS. It's pretty, functional, and for many it gets the job done.

My biggest problem is the hype.

Just a few weeks ago, I graduated from high school. A traditional practice in the U.S is for a graduate to receive money from relatives as a graduation present.
However, several of my friends blew their money on Macs and iPhones. Well, this is a capitalist country and I'm all for voting with your money...but the hype mentality Apple has going for it is ridiculous anymore.

"I wanna get a Mac so that I can be an artist."
"Macs are better than PCs."
"Macs don't get viruses."
"I like surfing the web and listening to music. I also love making movies. Mac OS sounds perfect for me."

Hopefully, you can see the problem with the above mentality. Instead of just getting it because you want it or have read up on it, people regurgitate the idea that they'll become great artists for buying into a corporate ideology. Truth be told, a computer doesn't make you a better artist, you do.

CJ Master
June 1st, 2009, 10:07 PM
I've honestly come to dislike the Mac OS. It's pretty, functional, and for many it gets the job done.

My biggest problem is the hype.

Just a few weeks ago, I graduated from high school. A traditional practice in the U.S is for a graduate to receive money from relatives as a graduation present.
However, several of my friends blew their money on Macs and iPhones. Well, this is a capitalist country and I'm all for voting with your money...but the hype mentality Apple has going for it is ridiculous anymore.

"I wanna get a Mac so that I can be an artist."
"Macs are better than PCs."
"Macs don't get viruses."
"I like surfing the web and listening to music. I also love making movies. Mac OS sounds perfect for me."

Hopefully, you can see the problem with the above mentality. Instead of just getting it because you want it or have read up on it, people regurgitate the idea that they'll become great artists for buying into a corporate ideology. Truth be told, a computer doesn't make you a better artist, you do.

Yes, but Macs are regarded as having better "artists software." It's sort of comparing Paint to GIMP, but for other software. I would kill for a copy of Garageband for Linux. >.<

optimisme
June 1st, 2009, 10:30 PM
I like the software they come with (iMovie, ...)
I like everything working out of the box by default (Sound, Video, Wireless)

Nothing Linux can't achieve, let's work to improve it!

(Anyway, GNOME is not as beautiful but it's often better)

schauerlich
June 1st, 2009, 11:45 PM
My biggest problem is the hype.

Who cares about the hype? Just use what works for you.

pwnst*r
June 1st, 2009, 11:48 PM
I would kill for a copy of Garageband for Linux. >.<

same. i love GarageBand because a lot of the Windows apps are very pro-oriented with a dizzying array of features and options.

i just want to play ffs.

burvowski
June 1st, 2009, 11:51 PM
I like OS X. It's good for my mom and sister. I used it after Windows, but I don't need most of the unique features on Macs/OS X. I don't need an illuminated keyboard, I don't need iLife. It's cool having a program to make jingles and photo books, but how often would I actually utilize that? Enough to warrent paying for it? Nope. Ubuntu suits my needs fine.

handy
June 2nd, 2009, 02:25 AM
After retiring from servicing their windows machines, over 3.5 years ago, I recommended Mac's to some ex-customers.

They have all been very happy with the change. They have had no virus/mal-ware or any OS corruption, they have never needed technical assistance, as they could easily learn what they needed to do for themselves. Which beats the hell out of windows or Linux/BSD.

So as far as the price difference between a store bought windows machine & a Mac is concerned, I think that for those that need to pay others to sort out their computer problems, Mac's pay for themselves in their reliability which removes the need to pay a tech' to fix it, there are no virus mal-ware problems that I'm aware of, which again saves down-time, potential data loss, stress, paying someone to fix it & saves funds on yearly anti-virus/mal-ware subscription fees.

I consider for the average computer user, that Mac's are the most stress free way to go. If you are a big time gamer then windows is the way to go. If you want control over as much of the system as possible then Linux/BSD is the answer, with the added bonus's of their particular types of licenses & the fact that the price is right.

When people start getting all thingy about the open/closed-ness of the software I have to laugh. As to my mind, there is no difference between software & hardware; they can both be more or less tinkered with. Having the attitude that running a purely FOSS system, on hardware built on components made by the likes of intel, AMD, nVidia & so on, is going to make some radical change to the corporate run world we live in is laughable.

Be grateful that there is FOSS, & if you are a scripter/programmer there is more than enough scope in that realm no matter what your skill level.

We've run at least one Mac since Panther came out, have 3 here currently all running Leopard. Though mine usually primarily runs on Arch, because I can control more of the setup, than I can in OSX, until OSX allows me to change the size of the fonts on the system menu bar it will never be my favorite place to be, but apart from that, Leopard is a very easy & reliable place to do your computing.

As far as Time Machine is concerned, it really does slow a Mac down if you have a lot of data on it, it slows down the boot process a LOT.

We ended up turning it off on my wife's machine, she can from time to time, quite easily just send over all the newer files to the external drive to keep an external backup. We consider Time Machine to be more hype than function at this stage, though I expect Apple will get it sorted, maybe in the 10.6. ?