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mamamia88
May 1st, 2009, 12:20 AM
just want to know what you think about it. is it real or is it just bs? i just started reading State of Fear and it makes convincing arguments against it

PurposeOfReason
May 1st, 2009, 12:26 AM
It is real. So is global cooling. We can see from this graph (http://www.planetforlife.com/images/co2history.gif), that is has been worse in recent years. Sadly, that is the only one I could find, only going back 1000 years. If I find the one I saw (20000 years), you'll see a few spikes and whatnot. That is not to say this isn't significant. This current trend is by far one of the highest in terms of temp/year increase. Are we to blame? We have our fair share and if we like our way of life, we should learn to control these spikes better.

My $.02

mr.propre
May 1st, 2009, 12:28 AM
3 other reason why thinking "green" is good for us:
It's healthier (less pollution)
It's cheaper (on long term)
It creates jobs and that is good for the economy.

mamamia88
May 1st, 2009, 12:37 AM
well that graph does make it convincing

skymera
May 1st, 2009, 12:47 AM
I've never onced believed it.

"oh the polar bear, save the polar bear!". No.
"The ice is melting, oh dear!" So would your ice cubes from the freezer if you left a lamp shining on them.

http://poneke.wordpress.com/2008/07/18/warm-3/
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/avery033006.htm

It's all a con to make money. ANYTHING to make a bit of dosh.

"Oh sir, your car produces diddly squat CO2, yet you can pay 200 in "Carbon Tax"".
"Oh, this aeroplane causes CO2, you can ALL pay 100"
So 100 per person, yet the plane will produce the same amount of CO2 with 1 person flying or whether it has 400.

I'll never go green,
I'm happy burning petrol to stay warm.
I'm happy leaving my phone charger in the wall
I'm happy leaving my Sky box on standby
I'm happy opening the fridge door to see the light say hello
I'm going to bed, it's late

hardyn
May 1st, 2009, 12:49 AM
wow...

doas777
May 1st, 2009, 12:57 AM
ok, in general, the vast majority of scientists have been convinced by evidence of climate change, and I have personally seen many signs of it myself. I often wonder how others can miss it.

the real basis for argument is whether the change is caused by man and industrialization. my belief and that of many others as well, is that it is at least partly caused by greenhouse gas emissions. unfourtunatly many peoples beliefs on the topic are based in politics and personal philosophy, rather than science.

SunnyRabbiera
May 1st, 2009, 01:01 AM
I've never onced believed it.

"oh the polar bear, save the polar bear!". No.
"The ice is melting, oh dear!" So would your ice cubes from the freezer if you left a lamp shining on them.

http://poneke.wordpress.com/2008/07/18/warm-3/
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/avery033006.htm

It's all a con to make money. ANYTHING to make a bit of dosh.

"Oh sir, your car produces diddly squat CO2, yet you can pay 200 in "Carbon Tax"".
"Oh, this aeroplane causes CO2, you can ALL pay 100"
So 100 per person, yet the plane will produce the same amount of CO2 with 1 person flying or whether it has 400.

I'll never go green,
I'm happy burning petrol to stay warm.
I'm happy leaving my phone charger in the wall
I'm happy leaving my Sky box on standby
I'm happy opening the fridge door to see the light say hello
I'm going to bed, it's late

But cant deny our effect on the planet, we create far more pollution then any other thing on the planet.
Our trash litters the streets, rivers, forests and everything we touch.
Our pollution has put smog and acid rain as strong concerns.
Our world is suffering, to deny it is idiotic.

Polygon
May 1st, 2009, 01:02 AM
better lock this before it dissolves due to its stupidity.

VCoolio
May 1st, 2009, 01:08 AM
Yes, it's real and it's the biggest long-term problem we have to cope with on a short notice. Al Gore's movie is not particularly well made or fun to watch, but it does (among others) show researches we can no longer ignore. So not only start thinking what Obama / the EU / the UN / whoever needs to do, but start thinking what you can do. I agree the environmentalists with their cute ice bears can be quite annoying, but do nothing and this earth is screwed, at least for androids to live on.

monkeyKata
May 1st, 2009, 01:15 AM
Well, I do think we are ignorantly destroying forested lands for development/timber/cattle grazing, as well as polluting our air and water supplies. I think going green is a good thing. Eating food produced closer to home and without pesticides (our ancestors seemed to get by for thousands of years without spraying toxic chemicals on everything they ate, right?) And with that, the idea of consuming less. I mean, if you're in the United States, look at all the worthless crap that is sold during the holidays that people don't need - paper turkey cut-outs, plastic howling pumpkins, cheering santas... not to mention all the waste produced from, for example, a single fast-food meal (everything wrapped in cardboard or plastic).

But I do suspect that global warming may have a lot less to do with us than with the sun. There are scientific arguments that point to the sun as the primary driving force in world temperatures. I think it's important to consider these arguments. And the older I get, the less I trust anything the government tries to push down the people's throats, and to me, in this context, the whole cap-and-trade scheme starts to smell a bit fishy.

samjh
May 1st, 2009, 01:16 AM
I believe that mankind is having a detrimental effect on the environment.

I do not believe in using the phrase, "climate change". Yes, the climate is changing, but it changes without interference from man. The phrase is completely misleading, as it implies that climate change is caused entirely by man, which is untrue. The phrase was invented when it was discovered that the Earth is not only getting warmer, but also getting colder in some parts.

I believe that man is having a detrimental effect on the environment in the sense that:

There are now much more artificial waste than ever before.
Our industrial revolution has caused CO2 levels to rise beyond natural rate.
Nuclear weapons testing has severely contaminated some parts of the world.
There are less forests and other green vegetation to offset our output of CO2 into the atmosphere.
Natural wildlife habitats have decreased substantially, endangering many animals, and causing others to become extinct.


However, I also believe:

That carbon emission trading schemes will not lower our CO2 output to any degree which will make a difference in the future.
That efforts to reduce CO2 emissions are narrow-minded in that the only countries making significant efforts in the field are developed countries, while developing mass-pollutants such as China are doing nothing and only exacerbating the problem. Furthermore, CO2 emissions are not the only emissions harmful to the atmosphere; there are gasses such as Methane, CO1, and others which do as much - if not more - harm, and their output is not being reduced at all.
Some governments and scientists are hyping up the dangers of global warming in order to further their own political agenda, professional prestige, and personal status.
We are naive if we think that we can live indefinitely without equal or more drastic change of climate not fuelled by our activities. (In other words, even without our influence, the Earth will eventually heat up or cool down to the detriment of our survival; climate change is inevitable).
That we humans are too arrogant in thinking that we can "destroy" the world, or "save" it.


Having said that, I do advocate that we should try to live with concern for our environment. Recycling, conserving water, electricity, etc., are sensible things to do.

bowens44
May 1st, 2009, 01:17 AM
LOts of flat earthers still around....... oh well.

tlcasey100
May 1st, 2009, 01:24 AM
Global warming is just another load of bull manure dreamed up to create a lot of fear and make someone a lot of money, just ask algore with the 22 room mansion.Remember y2k sold a lot of software.The prez doesnt worry much with the flyby yesterday either. Air force one uses a lot of fuel.:P

skymera
May 1st, 2009, 10:08 AM
But cant deny our effect on the planet, we create far more pollution then any other thing on the planet.
Our trash litters the streets, rivers, forests and everything we touch.
Our pollution has put smog and acid rain as strong concerns.
Our world is suffering, to deny it is idiotic.

I'm not saying that we aren't harming the environment. We are.
We litter as you say.

Guess what? I don't care about that either :D

I said that i don't believe in "man-made" global warming.

Though this could be a natural phase, just like that Global Cooling bullsh that they come up with before.

DrHackenbush
May 1st, 2009, 02:33 PM
It is real. So is global cooling. We can see from this graph (http://www.planetforlife.com/images/co2history.gif), that is has been worse in recent years. Sadly, that is the only one I could find, only going back 1000 years. If I find the one I saw (20000 years), you'll see a few spikes and whatnot. That is not to say this isn't significant. This current trend is by far one of the highest in terms of temp/year increase. Are we to blame? We have our fair share and if we like our way of life, we should learn to control these spikes better.

My $.02

That graph purports to show CO2 (ppm) not temperature. I love arguments like the global warming one (or is it 'climate change' now) where increasing temperature 'proves' the argument and so does decreasing temperature.

The notion of man made global warming is so much FUD. Lol - I can't believe people still buy it.

chucky chuckaluck
May 1st, 2009, 02:42 PM
wasn't there some information from NASA that indicated mars was experiencing similar climate changes as earth? if that's so, it would kind of point to a solar cause rather than cows passing gas. what i don't understand is why there isn't more urging from the climate change crowd to get people to move inland. i also don't understand why there isn't more concern for trying to shrink the population.

gnomeuser
May 1st, 2009, 03:05 PM
wasn't there some information from NASA that indicated mars was experiencing similar climate changes as earth? if that's so, it would kind of point to a solar cause rather than cows passing gas. what i don't understand is why there isn't more urging from the climate change crowd to get people to move inland. i also don't understand why there isn't more concern for trying to shrink the population.

Real Climate on Martian weather - short answer no (http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/10/global-warming-on-mars/)

Real Climate is generally a very fine source of analysis of climate change claims and articles. Real science, none of that political sensationalism. The writers are all experts in the field in question. The reasoning is based on evidence and analysis which is readily available.

Saint Angeles
May 1st, 2009, 03:05 PM
...i also don't understand why there isn't more concern for trying to shrink the population.
i don't know how governments would even start doing this... i mean, people aren't going to like being crammed into tiny little boxes.

plus we'll have all kinds of spinal problems... ugh

WatchingThePain
May 1st, 2009, 03:11 PM
Global warming or not..we are at the end of the Mayan calender.
Nostradamus prophecy can be linked with this ( " A third of the Earth will be burned").
Personally I reckon the experiments at CERN may well be a problem.
Einstein predicted that cold fusion type experiments could produce atmospheric fires and nuclear chain reactions in the sea.
Humans are no more important than any other lifeform.
Unless if you are Biblical then we are made in the image of God.
Basically times are gonna get tougher.

Scientifically it seems Global warming is a moot point anyway.
Large industry is to blame for the damage to the environment mostly.
We all succumbed to the brainwashing of our consumer society.
People are now becoming more eco friendly but it may be too late.
I think it is destiny.

skymera
May 1st, 2009, 04:19 PM
i also don't understand why there isn't more concern for trying to shrink the population.

OH YES
amen!

I feel so strongly about this. Especially in the UK.

Tax, tax people who give birth to girls. It works in China

cariboo907
May 1st, 2009, 04:47 PM
It time to close this thread, remember no politics. I'll quote the C of C if I have to.