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View Full Version : Linux users are to harsh on windows and vice versa.



xequence
January 3rd, 2006, 11:54 PM
Its amazing how much over the top stuff each OSes users say about the other OS...

Many linux users are all "Just use windows for 10 seconds and itll crash" and many windows users are all "Linux is so hard it cant do anything it proves you get what you pay for".

Why people? Why cant we realise both OSes can do some things better then the other, and each is useful for some things. Yes, windows can get viruses. Yes, linux doesent work with many games... You use whatever works best on what you need it to do, or use both with a dual boot. I feel like im the only unbiased person in the world O_O

Good things about both:
Windows:
- MS Office is better then OOo in my opinion, Crossover just takes all the fastness away from it
- Games
- More programs (Yea, theres mostly an alternative, but isnt it just better to go with the program you wanted in the first place?)
- Dont have to touch the command line
- My MP3 player works on it (Well, sort of, when it works at all, which isnt that often)
Linux
- Free
- Great community (You feel you are part of something)
- Most programs are free (In windows they want you to pay 40$ or more for every little program)
- Way more secure (You can run a web server on it =O)
- More customizeable (KDE, Gnome, XFCE, Blackbox, anything else, or a combination of them all)

So, why cant we make friends with windows users and all hate Sony together?

mstlyevil
January 4th, 2006, 12:11 AM
Its amazing how much over the top stuff each OSes users say about the other OS...

Many linux users are all "Just use windows for 10 seconds and itll crash" and many windows users are all "Linux is so hard it cant do anything it proves you get what you pay for".

Why people? Why cant we realise both OSes can do some things better then the other, and each is useful for some things. Yes, windows can get viruses. Yes, linux doesent work with many games... You use whatever works best on what you need it to do, or use both with a dual boot. I feel like im the only unbiased person in the world O_O

I call people to the carpet when they make ridiculous claims about the instability of Windows. I also believe that both Linux and Windows are great products that each have it's own strengths and weaknesses. I do get tired of FUD coming from both sides. I know there are a number of people using Linux that use it for political reasons and it is a minority in this group that tend to make up FUD about Windows to scare people into using Linux. On the other hand, most people spreading FUD about Linux are either trying to start a flame war or they are just ignorant windows users that tried an advanced distro and assume that all distros are as complcated to configure and run. These people also tend to come into the Linux world and think it is supposed to be a copy of Windows and are dissapointed to find out it does things quite different in some areas. This will probally never stop because people tend to take things to the extreme whether it is religion, politics or their OS of choice and express strong feelings about it.

xequence
January 4th, 2006, 12:36 AM
Yay, +1 more unbiased person :)

nemik
January 4th, 2006, 12:40 AM
you guys both suck with your communist GPL and fascist monopoly!

BSD forever!

:rolleyes:

mstlyevil
January 4th, 2006, 12:44 AM
you guys both suck with your communist GPL and fascist monopoly!

BSD forever!

:rolleyes:

Called me a Communist and Fascist all in one breath. Now I must get out the whips and start beating people into submission.

prizrak
January 4th, 2006, 12:47 AM
Things like that happen out of frustration. Alot of people who use Linux been there since 9x was still around, which was a horrible POS of an OS (although Linux wasn't much better at the time) or they moved to Linux from Windows cuz they had so many problems with MS that they come to hate it. I hate MS itself because of how they are not Windows the OS. Vice versa is also true people who were proficient Windows users (me being one of them) move to Linux and have no idea how it works and what to do, and some stuff is pretty hard to setup (or used to be) and when they can't get it to work they say it sux. There are also alot of people who used Linux before when it was in fact a geek OS and not ready for the inexperienced.
Having said all that Linux is an overall better OS IMO. The reason I think so is because Linux is very modular so adding features does not require a complete kernel redesign. For Windows to get to the point where it would be as good as Linux in functionality-to-sysrq area would require a complete rewrite of the entire OS.

23meg
January 4th, 2006, 12:50 AM
So, why cant we make friends with windows users and all hate Sony together?While I find it an immature attitude to bash Windows at every opportunity, and do acknowledge that both Windows and Linux based OSes have their particular strengths and weaknesses, this is the Ubuntu forums, and we do have a bug #1 (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1) in our hands, so you should expect some bias. That bias, however, shouldn't be an excuse for ad hominem attacks on Windows users or any blind bashing attitude about any OS and its user base.

I don't believe in the virtue of being unbiased in many areas in life, including this one. At present there are things I can do in Windows that I absolutely cannot do in Ubuntu, and vica versa, so I use both, as well as other OSes, but the thing is: I believe in and contribute to and am part of Ubuntu and FOSS, whereas I don't have a single bit of belief left in proprietary software in general and Windows in special. Hence the bias.

xequence
January 4th, 2006, 01:03 AM
It is OK to be biased in one way, but not another. Its ok to believe that windows and what it stands for is better and that you get what you pay for. Or the opposite, all software should be free and accessable to everyone.

The problem I have is when people exagerate things. Saying, for example that linux cant do anything and wont work on any hardware is bias. Or saying that windows is like jelly and isnt stable whatsoever.

Saying something like "Linux Distro X didnt detect my hardware very well" is OK. Something like "Linux isnt ready for the desktop, it doesent work with hardware" isnt. Saying something like "Windows crashed twice on me yesterday" is ok. Something like "Windows is so unstable, you cant even open up a web browser without it crashing" isnt.

The point I am trying to make here is this: Opinions are good. But so are facts. Use facts to back up your opinion. (Like this: "I believe open source software is the best because it is more accessable to everyone and people can change it to suit them perfectly". Or this: "I beleive propriatory software is the best because the devs get paid and hackers cant see the source code to hack it better")

taseal
January 4th, 2006, 01:26 AM
yeah, I agree...

some people hate windows so much here, and talk bad about it, its nuts... if it was that bad, It wouldnt be the leading OS right now lol

they all have their advantages, and disadvantages...

xequence
January 4th, 2006, 01:27 AM
yeah, I agree...

some people hate windows so much here, and talk bad about it, its nuts... if it was that bad, It wouldnt be the leading OS right now lol

they all have their advantages, and disadvantages...

I gotta say though, market share in OSes doesent really matter in terms of how good an OS is. Nomatter if you like windows or not, you know why windows is #1: Microsofts business tactics.

taseal
January 4th, 2006, 01:34 AM
I gotta say though, market share in OSes doesent really matter in terms of how good an OS is. Nomatter if you like windows or not, you know why windows is #1: Microsofts business tactics. you're right, but something is up because everyone and their grandma is using windows lol yeah, they do come preinstalled on many computers, but what if avg joe went to a store to get an OS for his computer, what would he get? he would get what majority of ppl have probably :hmm: I really dont see why many ppl hate windows so much... only thing I think windows missing is, dull gui (changing with a resource killer vista soon lol) and their damn security holes (which is a major issue lol) other then that, its an ok OS imo

mstlyevil
January 4th, 2006, 01:36 AM
you're right, but something is up because everyone and their grandma is using windows lol yeah, they do come preinstalled on many computers, but what if avg joe went to a store to get an OS for his computer, what would he get? he would get what majority of ppl have probably :hmm: I really dont see why many ppl hate windows so much... only thing I think windows missing is, dull gui (changing with a resource killer vista soon lol) and their damn security holes (which is a major issue lol) other then that, its an ok OS imo

Vista might be a resource killer on older computers, but it is being designed for modern and next gen computers. Win XP will be around for a while longer for the older computers.

taseal
January 4th, 2006, 01:39 AM
Vista might be a resource killer on older computers, but it is being designed for modern and next gen computers. Win XP will be around for a while longer for the older computers.

another good point

i heard rumors that to view videos in vista, you need a HDTV compatible monitor (or was it to even use vista)

I posted it the stuff on a car site, lemme see if I can dig it up

mstlyevil
January 4th, 2006, 01:42 AM
another good point

i heard rumors that to view videos in vista, you need a HDTV compatible monitor (or was it to even use vista)

I posted it the stuff on a car site, lemme see if I can dig it up

Not true. you only need a HDTV compatible monitor to display content in high definition. Vista will down grade the video to play on older monitors at lower resolutions.

prizrak
January 4th, 2006, 02:08 AM
I gotta say though, market share in OSes doesent really matter in terms of how good an OS is. Nomatter if you like windows or not, you know why windows is #1: Microsofts business tactics.
Well MS wasn't always the only choice, at the point when x86 came out MS DOS was the choice (they bought it and not made it) that IBM made for it, of course they got no rights for it but oh well. At the time x86 and DOS were actually the best choices in home computing since it was a cheaper combination than what Apple offered. The real start of the monopoly was MS's withdrawal from the OS/2 project and creation of Windows. It was at that point that MS was able to preload a windowing OS on all the ready made x86 PC's. The rest is history :)

taseal
January 4th, 2006, 02:10 AM
still to this day it pisses me off how bill stole ideas from apple to his own windows :mad:

you guys should watch that movie, i forget it's name... pirates of the silicon valley or w/e lol

mstlyevil
January 4th, 2006, 02:43 AM
still to this day it pisses me off how bill stole ideas from apple to his own windows :mad:

you guys should watch that movie, i forget it's name... pirates of the silicon valley or w/e lol

Apple by no means pioneered those Ideas either. They got the concept from Xerox. Bill didn't steal anything. Apple lost it's suit against Microsoft on that very issue. Xerox gave it away and everyone since has copied it from some where or another.

JimmyJazz
January 4th, 2006, 03:02 AM
yeah I kinda hate linux people who seemed obsessed with Windows, Linux was never made to be Windows, its just made to be Linux and do what Linux does I think its better to keep that in mind however, a little friendly competition between the two OSes is never hurts.

ATAQ
January 4th, 2006, 03:43 AM
I agree, I think that Windows Xp is a pretty good operating system, although it lacks in configureability, security and its price is hairy enough too!
But Linux has its downfalls aswell.
I wouldn't think negatively on a person who runs Windows or anything, its just my own personal preference to run Linux because I like to control my computer and don't like the idea of someone controlling what you run and how you run it.:)

Iandefor
January 4th, 2006, 04:05 AM
Well MS wasn't always the only choice, at the point when x86 came out MS DOS was the choice (they bought it and not made it) that IBM made for it, of course they got no rights for it but oh well. At the time x86 and DOS were actually the best choices in home computing since it was a cheaper combination than what Apple offered. The real start of the monopoly was MS's withdrawal from the OS/2 project and creation of Windows. It was at that point that MS was able to preload a windowing OS on all the ready made x86 PC's. The rest is history :)

MS-DOS was owned by Microsoft. It doesn't deny that they bought it, but it was still a Microsoft product. Why do you think they had MS in front of the name? Well, even before MS-DOS hit the scene, there were other DOS's (Which stands for Disk Operating System or some such crap), such as DR-DOS and CP/M. It's more a pedantic correction than anything.

prizrak
January 4th, 2006, 05:44 AM
MS-DOS was owned by Microsoft. It doesn't deny that they bought it, but it was still a Microsoft product. Why do you think they had MS in front of the name? Well, even before MS-DOS hit the scene, there were other DOS's (Which stands for Disk Operating System or some such crap), such as DR-DOS and CP/M. It's more a pedantic correction than anything.
That wasn't my point actually. I was just saying that MS did make a good product at some point (well not make since they just bought it) and it was actually at least as good as the competition. Interestingly enough QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System) which they bought was based on CP/M. In fact CP/M was the other OS IBM considered for it's x86 architecture but MS won the contract somehow.

akurashy
January 4th, 2006, 06:04 AM
So, why cant we make friends with windows users and all hate Sony together?

Well thats funny.. first you say you aren't biased, you just ruined saying that and your weird avatar, there will be always be people that hate companies etc etc, for their own reasons of course. though there are people that are trollers.. by that i mean "windows suck" then you ask "why" then they start saying stupid things.

why sony anyway, for me sony and other companies are great. after all they put efforts at things as other developers do, those efforts should be appreciated and not hated.

Galoot
January 4th, 2006, 06:51 AM
Some of my best friends use Windows. As long as they wash their hands afterwards I don't judge.

I don't like Windows mainly because of the security issues and partly because of the lack of control I have over my machine when running it. If those issues were addressed to a similar degree as Linux I'd judge it less harshly.

As for Microsoft's draconian business practices, well, it's a corporation not a charity. It didn't get to be as big as it is by playing nice. Welcome to capitalism. Microsoft is expected to do everything in its power to make the world proprietary. That's what makes money for the shareholders, and it's their right to demand as much. I don't like it, but what does that matter?

Joe Average looks at Linux zealots and Windows zealots and Mac zealots, and he thinks they're all nuts. He doesn't give a damn one way or the other as long as his computer works. He won't be swayed by zealotry of any kind. He'll be swayed by a working, pretty, system first, and a reasonable and subtle argument second.

Every year the word "Linux" is on more tongues. That's because of the non-zealots, the people who simply promote Linux as a viable and inexpensive alternative without going into flaming FUD mode. Mark Shuttleworth is the latest prominent Linux anti-zealot. He comes across as a reasonable philanthropist and, in my opinion, his efforts have done more for Linux in the past couple of years than anything else.

Anyway, I'm not harsh on Windows. I'm harsh on insecure operating systems.

nocturn
January 4th, 2006, 09:21 AM
Its amazing how much over the top stuff each OSes users say about the other OS...


To be fair, I have used som many OS's that it get's hard to keep count.

After initially starting out with DOS/Win32, I used OS/2 for a while. I used FreeBSD, Solaris, HP-UX, Aix and a couple of others. And while Linux fitted me best out of all of them, I really like a lot of things about most of the others.

But I really have to say that I find next to nothing that Windows does better then any of them, except new hardware support...

That said, if people want to use Windows, no problem, I just don't like it myself and I do not want to pay for a copy of it when I buy a new machine.

nocturn
January 4th, 2006, 09:25 AM
Just a little addition to my previous post. While I do not mind people using Windows, I do mind some things about their habbit.

- Sending out proprietary file formats (.doc, xls, ...), which require MS Office to open (even the government does this).
- I cannot get infected with their spyware and virusses, but in severe outbreaks, the sheer volume of it does slow down my connection, so a general ISP policy of disconnecting infected PC's would be nice as it is the burden of the owner to keep his PC safe.

nocturn
January 4th, 2006, 09:28 AM
hy sony anyway, for me sony and other companies are great. after all they put efforts at things as other developers do, those efforts should be appreciated and not hated.

I think that the avatar refers to the Sony Rootkit in it's DRM systems. If this is the case, he is right.

If you design and distribute spyware/virusses, you get jail time, so what should we do about Sony?

GeneralZod
January 4th, 2006, 11:10 AM
I think that the avatar refers to the Sony Rootkit in it's DRM systems. If this is the case, he is right.

If you design and distribute spyware/virusses, you get jail time, so what should we do about Sony?

Agreed - Sony's actions were beyond reprehensible, and labelling despising their actions as "bias" is pretty non-sensical to me :)


I agree with the OP, and find remarks that some people make about Windows to be eye-roll inducing; with some particularly vocal people, it's like they have to run Windows into the ground and make Linux appear better than Windows in every way (even if that involves half-truths, completely unexamined assertions, or flat-out lies), as if their self-esteem depends on it - in fact, a lot of them time I wonder just who these people are trying to convince :)

One of my favourite recurring examples that I don't think has been covered here is the dishonesty in price comparisons - when totting up the cost of a Windows vs Linux install, they will insist on adding to the Windows cost the most expensive anti-virus solution (when there are excellent free ones available) and $300 for MS Office, as if it is impossible to install Windows without it, conveniently overlooking that the "replacement" (oo.o) that Linux users use also runs on Windows!

vayu
January 4th, 2006, 11:53 AM
But I really have to say that I find next to nothing that Windows does better then any of them, except new hardware support...


Cleartype on my flat panel display. I've tried a lot of things and I just can't get Linux to look as sharp and clear.




One of my favourite recurring examples that I don't think has been covered here is the dishonesty in price comparisons - when totting up the cost of a Windows vs Linux install, they will insist on adding to the Windows cost the most expensive anti-virus solution (when there are excellent free ones available) and $300 for MS Office, as if it is impossible to install Windows without it, conveniently overlooking that the "replacement" (oo.o) that Linux users use also runs on Windows!

I agree, because of the market penetration, there is a lot of free or low cost software for windows.

Malphas
January 4th, 2006, 11:56 AM
There's also a lot more open source software available for - and often specifically intended for - Windows.

nocturn
January 4th, 2006, 11:59 AM
One of my favourite recurring examples that I don't think has been covered here is the dishonesty in price comparisons - when totting up the cost of a Windows vs Linux install, they will insist on adding to the Windows cost the most expensive anti-virus solution (when there are excellent free ones available) and $300 for MS Office, as if it is impossible to install Windows without it, conveniently overlooking that the "replacement" (oo.o) that Linux users use also runs on Windows!

You are correct, and my Laptop with WinXP at work looks like this (Gaim, FireFox, OpenOffice, The Gimp and even bash and Vi).

However, this still leaves the debate of Free Software against commercial, and in terms of both price and quality, I have found that FOSS wins out every time.

I feel that if you compare a proprietary desktop against a Free one, you should not through FOSS into the proprietary mix. But I'm into the Free Software movement on moral reasons, not practical ones.

taseal
January 4th, 2006, 01:15 PM
Just a little addition to my previous post. While I do not mind people using Windows, I do mind some things about their habbit. - Sending out proprietary file formats (.doc, xls, ...), which require MS Office to open (even the government does this). haha, very true! I installed ubuntu on my dad's laptop but failed to get the wireless card working after days of work (and I let my dad use my laptop while at it) and he just didnt like gnome, he said linux can never be MS and that pissed me off, so I installed MS back on his computer (i had to format it since you have to do that ritual every 6 months with windows lol) and when I installed it back, he got an email which required powerpoint to view the attachment... he has been in a bad mood lately, so he got mad at me and said why cant I open this ****, then I told him powerpoint is a pretty expensive program, so he doesnt have it, but if he had used linux instead, he could have opened it right now since the program to view them is free and just as good as powerpoint... now he had gotten real mad cuz I owned him lol.... he told me to get a bootleg copy (they sell'em here for like 5 bux if you go to the right place) so I ended up getting a bootleg copy for him which was probably infected with virus of some sort lol... oh, xp was a bootleg copy too, cuz he doesnt wanna go spend 200 euros on getting the real deal...

hell, just switching to linux can make u a non-pirate man lol

Kerberos
January 4th, 2006, 03:05 PM
he has been in a bad mood lately, so he got mad at me and said why cant I open this ****, then I told him powerpoint is a pretty expensive program, so he doesnt have it, but if he had used linux instead, he could have opened it right now since the program to view them is free and just as good as powerpoint.

Not quite! (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=428d5727-43ab-4f24-90b7-a94784af71a4&displaylang=en) - there are also viewers for XLS/DOC and a few other formats so your dad could have viewed it for no extra cost - but then you wouldn't be able to bash MS :)

I'm fairly sure OO opens Powerpoint files too.

lgmdaniel
January 4th, 2006, 03:39 PM
I don't really have that much of a problem with both Windows and Linux, you'll find that both OS will have the same problems and some different one.
Windows main problem which is also part of it success, everything runs on it. But not all those things have decent code which is why windows crashes so much. You run just bare windows and it will probably run for ages, but then that's not what you need. Also because of its larger market share its more likely targeted for spyware and virus. The company its self has done some dodgy things, but all those where to keep the market share, where the money it. I some ways the OS is becoming to bloated, which in its self is affecting the performance and leave more holes for faults and security breaches. Personally I think they need to slim it down and give people more choice about what they can add and need. After all if I just want to surf I don't need cutting edge graphics.
This is Linux advantage.. You can make it what you like, you don't need a huge bloated OS. Ship here, snip there performance goes up and new life is breathed into old PC's. Sometimes this will take you time to configure but it is getting there, becoming more user friendly but it is still a bit daunting for most people.
Don't forget about apple... they don't have virus problems and lots of software crashes. Why... cus they have a small viability and a close cut controlled software/hardware choice (I think). But very dedicated user base that would never dream of leaving them.

I personally don't see Windows loosing out greatly to Linux, but I do see them having to make some serious choices about the market they are in and what they supply. More a balance in there monopoly.

I'm more interested in what googles (http://blog.topix.net/archives/000016.html) up to...

awakatanka
January 4th, 2006, 04:00 PM
still to this day it pisses me off how bill stole ideas from apple to his own windows :mad:

you guys should watch that movie, i forget it's name... pirates of the silicon valley or w/e lol
No, Steve, I think its more like we both have a rich neighbor named Xerox, and you broke in to steal the TV set, and you found out I'd been there first, and you said. "Hey that's no fair! I wanted to steal the TV set! - Bill Gates' response after Steve Jobs accused Microsoft of borrowing the GUI (Graphical User Interface) from Apple for Windows 1.0*

source : http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa043099.htm

Funny site to read.

awakatanka
January 4th, 2006, 04:11 PM
That wasn't my point actually. I was just saying that MS did make a good product at some point (well not make since they just bought it) and it was actually at least as good as the competition. Interestingly enough QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System) which they bought was based on CP/M. In fact CP/M was the other OS IBM considered for it's x86 architecture but MS won the contract somehow.
Not totaly MS told IBM they better use CP/M and ibm contacted them but they refused to sign a non-disclosure agreement.

And ms already know they made a mistake and bought a license of qdos and the rest is history.

xequence
January 4th, 2006, 07:18 PM
You are correct, and my Laptop with WinXP at work looks like this (Gaim, FireFox, OpenOffice, The Gimp and even bash and Vi).


How did you get vi on windows? Wait. I googled it. WinVi. Im gonna download it =)


I think that the avatar refers to the Sony Rootkit in it's DRM systems. If this is the case, he is right.

It refers to many things. Ofcourse part of it is the rootkit thing, but another part is the really bad support I got when trying to get the really bad software they make you use for my MP3 player to work.


Agreed - Sony's actions were beyond reprehensible, and labelling despising their actions as "bias" is pretty non-sensical to me

Yep yep =)


Well thats funny.. first you say you aren't biased, you just ruined saying that and your weird avatar, there will be always be people that hate companies etc etc, for their own reasons of course. though there are people that are trollers.. by that i mean "windows suck" then you ask "why" then they start saying stupid things.

why sony anyway, for me sony and other companies are great. after all they put efforts at things as other developers do, those efforts should be appreciated and not hated.

My avatar is my opinion. What I have said many times (though you might not have seen it) is that my avatar is always the mood I am in. Right now I really dont like sony.

Someone PMed me asking me why I had that avatar and I replied in this big giant paragraph, I saved it in a text file because I knew id need to post it somewhere. Ill find that text file sometime and youll know more of why I hate sony so much.

GeneralZod
January 4th, 2006, 07:23 PM
How did you get vi on windows? Wait. I googled it. WinVi. Im gonna download it =)


www.cygwin.com offers tons of nice, UNIX-y command-line stuff; give it a whirl if you haven't already! :)

TimelessRogue
January 4th, 2006, 08:49 PM
Hmmm ... yes, isn't it amazing how much these ... and other ... forums so closely reflect the best and worst of the outside world, particularly as goes bias and bashing (one way or the other), unfounded claims of either super-powers or super-inadequacies ... plus just plain prejudice and hatred ... and ignorance. And to what end?

Much of the time when I encounter this sort of thing I feel somewhat discouraged from even participating ... but then that would not make things any better either.

One needs to ignore the ignorant and the biased and the prejudiced, even though at times it may not be easy. They really only present themselves and having something less than an open mind ... which is at the same time somewhat the antithesis of "open source", isn't it?

akurashy
January 4th, 2006, 09:47 PM
I think that the avatar refers to the Sony Rootkit in it's DRM systems. If this is the case, he is right.

If you design and distribute spyware/virusses, you get jail time, so what should we do about Sony?

ah now thats another story, though i don't feel like hating :p

mstlyevil
January 5th, 2006, 12:19 AM
I some ways the OS is becoming to bloated, which in its self is affecting the performance and leave more holes for faults and security breaches. Personally I think they need to slim it down and give people more choice about what they can add and need. After all if I just want to surf I don't need cutting edge graphics.

Windows cannot win no matter what it does. Microsoft is answering those people who do not want the bloat by offering a stripped down version of Vista called Vista Home Basic. In this version, they are stripping it of it's areo glass theme and leaving out most of the goodies people will want. As far as choices go if MSFT releases just 2 choices as they did for XP people will say there are not enough choices. So now they annouce that they are releasing 7 versions with varying degrees of functions and people are saying there are too many choices and the consumer might be confused about which version is right for them. Vista is not being made for older computers. It is being developed for todys high powered, RAM rich computers and the next generation computers that will appear over the next couple of years. XP was considered bloatware yet todays computers can run it with no performance hit at all.



This is Linux advantage.. You can make it what you like, you don't need a huge bloated OS. Ship here, snip there performance goes up and new life is breathed into old PC's. Sometimes this will take you time to configure but it is getting there, becoming more user friendly but it is still a bit daunting for most people.

Most standard Linux distros such a Suse with either KDE or Gnome are just as bloated upon install as XP if not more so. True you can cut programs and shink it down but you can turn off services in XP you do not use and since SP2 you can actually unistall certain MSFT programs from the control panel like Outlook Express, Windows Messenger and several others. Also to truly get an unbloated Linux system you have to either know what programs to deselect during install or use an alternative WM like XFCE or Fluxbox. I do agree that Linux's strength is in the ability to configure and it's flexibility to be as big or small as you desire. But Windows, while limited does offer some level of customability if one knows how to do it.


Don't forget about apple... they don't have virus problems and lots of software crashes. Why... cus they have a small viability and a close cut controlled software/hardware choice (I think). But very dedicated user base that would never dream of leaving them.

Your statement is true here, but it is not the whole story. OSX is secure because of it's Unix base and it's Unix style permissions. It was designed from the ground up to be a secure multiuser OS. The same thing can be said of most Linux distos also. Windows on the other hand was designed as a single user OS and security was added later as an after thought especially since the dawn of the internet. Vista will be the first OS designed from the ground up by MSFT with security in mind. The jury is still out on if this will be enough to fix the gaping holes in Windows security.


I personally don't see Windows loosing out greatly to Linux, but I do see them having to make some serious choices about the market they are in and what they supply. More a balance in there monopoly.

I think they are trying to make those choices, though be it right or wrong. All I can say is thank God for Linux. (Or whatever diety or lack thereof you subscribe to.) Linux is doing more to make personal computing better for all users than any other development in the last 10-15 years.