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SunnyRabbiera
March 29th, 2009, 06:30 PM
They have done something that I am sure will cause contriversy.
They have chosen to name Opensuse 11.2 Fichte, after Johann Gottlieb Fichte.
This is disturbing, after warming up a little to opensue in Vbox they have to do something like this, Fichte was a known anti semite and well I am part Jewish.
My grandparents on my fathers side were Jewish and barely escaped the Nazis.
If this is true and they go ahead with this I am sure the boycott novell crowd will have a field day.

Grant A.
March 29th, 2009, 06:36 PM
No offense, but that's just what he thought. He was just a German philosopher. Newton was Christian, but weighing something in Newtons doesn't make you Christian, nor does it mean that the people weighing something in Newtons are Christian, for example.

I'm sorry to hear about your grandparents, but I don't really think that they chose him for the reasons that you seem to think. Keep in mind that he was a German Philosopher and not all of his teachings were about anti-semitism. Not to mention, SuSE is a german born distribution.

Note: A good portion of the people in Europe at that time period were known anti-semites.

andrewsomething
March 29th, 2009, 06:38 PM
No idea if this is true or not, but if it is that is very unfortunate. Can't imagine why they would want to potentially offend so many people. Could it be fichte as in German for spruce tree, not the person?

SunnyRabbiera
March 29th, 2009, 06:39 PM
No offense, but that's just what he thought. He was just a German philosopher. Newton was Christian, but weighing something in Newtons doesn't make you Christian, nor does it mean that the people weighing something in Newtons are Christian, for example.

I'm sorry to hear about your grandparents, but I don't really think that they chose him for the reasons that you seem to think. Keep in mind that he was a German Philosopher and not all of his teachings were about anti-semitism. Not to mention, SuSE is a german born distribution.

Note: A good portion of the people in Europe at that time period were known anti-semites.

Still there were quite a few things he did write in his early days that were quite anti semitic, sorry but being part jewish that came from a family that barely survived the Nazi's makes me sensitive to anti semitism.
It might be minor to some of you but for me its quite a big deal.


No idea if this is true or not, but if it is that is very unfortunate. Can't imagine why they would want to potentially offend so many people. Could it be fichte as in German for spruce tree, not the person?

No the naming scheme is after Eurpean Philosophers.

Tomosaur
March 29th, 2009, 06:41 PM
It's certainly not an ideal choice - but the guy was around in the 18th and 19th century. As wrong as it was, it's hardly a rare thing to hear people from those days being anti-semitic.

Mohamedzv2
March 29th, 2009, 06:42 PM
part Jewish? Um excuse me? How can you be a part of a religion but not fully?

Anyways, even if he was anti-semitic, so what? I'm against Zionists and Israel. Does that mean that nothing should be named after me or anything like that if I at least make the history books? Not at all.

He was against something. That doesn't mean if something is named after him you just give it up

Netsu
March 29th, 2009, 06:43 PM
Since when Semites are a religion?

Eisenwinter
March 29th, 2009, 06:46 PM
Heh. I wouldn't have a problem with it even if they called it "Hitler is God".

Grant A.
March 29th, 2009, 06:46 PM
No the naming scheme is after Eurpean Philosophers.

Then there is nothing to worry about. It's just a coincidence. Had they truly wanted to be anti-semitic, then they wouldn't have chose that particular naming scheme. I mean, it's not like they chose "known anti-semites" for the naming scheme.

Artificial Intelligence
March 29th, 2009, 06:53 PM
@SunnyRabbiera

My personal opinion, I think people should be careful not being too over-sensitive in such matter.

But that's me.

gnomeuser
March 29th, 2009, 06:54 PM
No idea if this is true or not, but if it is that is very unfortunate. Can't imagine why they would want to potentially offend so many people. Could it be fichte as in German for spruce tree, not the person?

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2009-03/msg00029.html

looking at the rest of the names it does seem like a philosopher theme. Their work, their naming scheme. People will though look for offense in pretty much anything in my experience, I hardly see the point in trying to avoid it preemptively, the next little group with their panties in a twist will just find something about the replacement name that offends them. People should be shown respect based on them earning it is not an intrinsic right.

Grow thicker skin and stop looking to be offended, it is an OS. They can call it whatever they like, the software doesn't work any different.

Screwdriver0815
March 29th, 2009, 06:54 PM
Henry Ford was anti semite too and he wrote a sick and stupid book about it. Does anyone care? Is everyone who buys and drives a Ford a Nazi now?

This Fichte-guy lived in a time as whole europe was anti semite. Maybe other places like the US too.

These stupid Nazi-guys came to power around 120 (!) years after his death and they didn't mention him as their master. They had other paragons.

Sure this is no excuse but this guy was also a great and important philosopher and had nothing to do with Nazi's and all this sh**

Suse names their release after him because he was an important person. So what?

MikeTheC
March 29th, 2009, 06:57 PM
They have done something that I am sure will cause contriversy.
They have chosen to name Opensuse 11.2 Fichte, after Johann Gottlieb Fichte.
This is disturbing, after warming up a little to opensue in Vbox they have to do something like this, Fichte was a known anti semite and well I am part Jewish.
My grandparents on my fathers side were Jewish and barely escaped the Nazis.
If this is true and they go ahead with this I am sure the boycott novell crowd will have a field day.

Whether or not a conscious desire, consider that SuSE is a German distro, and so likely they would pick a German notable. This might amount to little more than a lack of appropriate fact-checking on Novell's part. Perhaps you should send them a note with some authoritative sources in it and they could reverse the decision.

SunnyRabbiera
March 29th, 2009, 06:58 PM
part Jewish? Um excuse me? How can you be a part of a religion but not fully?

Anyways, even if he was anti-semitic, so what? I'm against Zionists and Israel. Does that mean that nothing should be named after me or anything like that if I at least make the history books? Not at all.

He was against something. That doesn't mean if something is named after him you just give it up

I am part Jewish becuase my father was Jewish, he never raised me Jewish though.
My mother is not jewish, my father broke family traditions in marrying her but he did it respectfully and did teach me Jewish traditions.
My father was a rather open ended guy, my grandparents despite their hardships did raise him to accept others and be tolerent.
Its funny how that works, my grandparents were alive in an era of hate but they tried to show love even in the darkest days of the Nazi regime.

Hey I am not too fond of Zeonists or Isreal either, my family was not extremist and my grandparents were not big fans of the ideas behind Isreal either.
But still it stings, despite how long distanced i am from those dark times I am connected to them too.

C!oud
March 29th, 2009, 07:00 PM
henry ford was anti semite too and he wrote a sick and stupid book about it. Does anyone care? Is everyone who buys and drives a ford a nazi now?

This fichte-guy lived in a time as whole europe was anti semite. Maybe other places like the us too.

These stupid nazi-guys came to power around 120 (!) years after his death and they didn't mention him as their master. They had other paragons.

Sure this is no excuse but this guy was also a great and important philosopher and had nothing to do with nazi's and all this sh**

suse names their release after him because he was an important person. So what?

+1, unfortunately there's a lot of notable people in history that were anti Semitic and anti semitism wasn't just limited to germany during WW2...

cardinals_fan
March 29th, 2009, 07:00 PM
Henry Ford was anti semite too and he wrote a sick and stupid book about it. Does anyone care? Is everyone who buys and drives a Ford a Nazi now?

This Fichte-guy lived in a time as whole europe was anti semite. Maybe other places like the US too.

These stupid Nazi-guys came to power around 120 (!) years after his death and they didn't mention him as their master. They had other paragons.

Sure this is no excuse but this guy was also a great and important philosopher and had nothing to do with Nazi's and all this sh**

Suse names their release after him because he was an important person. So what?
Not to mention that Woodrow Wilson, widely renowned in America as a heroic leader, was a white supremist and held a certain disdain for civil liberties.

Eisenwinter
March 29th, 2009, 07:03 PM
@SunnyRabbiera - you're only offended by this because you attach yourself to the group of Judaism.

I live in Israel, and yet I don't believe in Judaism, my family (from father's side) also went through the holocaust in the 1940s, but it doesn't offend me.

What's done is done.

Imagine it this way. You join some sports team, and become attached to it, it's legacy, history, etc.
Then, I come across and say "X team sucks", you'll be offended, because you've attached yourself to it.

Just check out all the wars between football (Real football, not american handball) fans on countries where this sport is big. I've heard of incidents of fans shooting fans of another team because the 2 teams are in a supposed rivalry.

It's really stupid, imo.

zekopeko
March 29th, 2009, 07:10 PM
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2009-03/msg00029.html

looking at the rest of the names it does seem like a philosopher theme. Their work, their naming scheme. People will though look for offense in pretty much anything in my experience, I hardly see the point in trying to avoid it preemptively, the next little group with their panties in a twist will just find something about the replacement name that offends them. People should be shown respect based on them earning it is not an intrinsic right.

Grow thicker skin and stop looking to be offended, it is an OS. They can call it whatever they like, the software doesn't work any different.

Couldn't agree more.
To the OP: Just because somebody had silly view 100+ years ago doesn't mean that he should be forgotten and shunned. Nazis were after your grandparent not Fichte.

C!oud
March 29th, 2009, 07:14 PM
Not to mention that Woodrow Wilson, widely renowned in America as a heroic leader, was a white supremist and held a certain disdain for civil liberties.

Woodrow Wilson didn't have a certain disdain for civil liberties per say, considering the fact that whenever US goes to war there are certain acts set in place to expand upon the power of the government such as the suspension of habeas corpus under Lincoln during the Civil War. And under pressure, the 19th Amendment was passed granting women suffrage. However I also wouldn't go as far as to call him a white supremacist, it was seen as accepted knowledge in his time that African Americans were inferior and he was no different than the average white american in that regard. Today those kinds of attitudes would be seen most definitely as racist especially regarding his comments on the film Birth of a Nation, however to criticize him as a president for being a white supremacist is while true considering he didn't advance the rights of minorities at all but neither did the other most of the other presidents before him.

sydbat
March 29th, 2009, 07:22 PM
And Walt Disney had pro-NAZI leanings before WWII...until he (like pretty much everyone else) found out what was really going on. If you notice the products they put out during and after WWII (movies, shorts, etc) there was/is lots of anti-NAZI visuals.

My theory - Uncle Walt (and the Disney corporation after his death) wanted to make sure that people were/are conscious of what looks fine on the surface, but what is really going on underneath. And I think he was trying to assuage his guilt to an extent.

SunnyRabbiera
March 29th, 2009, 07:25 PM
@SunnyRabbiera

My personal opinion, I think people should be careful not being too over-sensitive in such matter.

But that's me.

Well you might feel the same if your family was hunted down and almost killed.


http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2009-03/msg00029.html

looking at the rest of the names it does seem like a philosopher theme. Their work, their naming scheme. People will though look for offense in pretty much anything in my experience, I hardly see the point in trying to avoid it preemptively, the next little group with their panties in a twist will just find something about the replacement name that offends them. People should be shown respect based on them earning it is not an intrinsic right.

Grow thicker skin and stop looking to be offended, it is an OS. They can call it whatever they like, the software doesn't work any different.

I am not looking to be offended, if I was going to do that I would walk into the nearest KKK/ Neo Nazi meeting.
I just have some mixed feelings thats all, understandable for anyone who has felt the sting of antisemitism.


Henry Ford was anti semite too and he wrote a sick and stupid book about it. Does anyone care? Is everyone who buys and drives a Ford a Nazi now?

No but I certainly dont buy Fords, and dont discourage anyone from buying one.
If they buy one I dont care, but I do have some feelings in the matter.


Not to mention that Woodrow Wilson, widely renowned in America as a heroic leader, was a white supremist and held a certain disdain for civil liberties.

Well the one thing Wilson did right was oppose the treaty of Versailles and he didnt like the league of nations pushing around a depleted Germany.
I think it was a stupid treaty too, its the only thing I have in common with Hitler if I may add.
But hey I am not saying I am a Nazi either, I agree with Hitler in a historical sense that the treaty was total crap but that doesnt make me antisemitic.

Look I am just saying this choice is poor, and I do have feelings about it thats all.
I have a right to voice my concerns, but wanted some feedback too.


Since when Semites are a religion?

Antisemitism is a catch all term for being anti Jewish, against people of Semite origin and so fourth.
Do your homework bud:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic

The term itself is an Oxymoron, as not everyone in those regions is Jewish.

KiwiNZ
March 29th, 2009, 07:36 PM
My own beliefs aside, it is pointless bringing this here . If you object to Suse naming take it to Novell or the OpenSuse Forums. This is for Ubuntu, I doubt if Novell staffers will even read it here.

I am going to close this thread, also keeping in mind the banner .